August 28, 2021 • 28 mins
Lisa + Amy take a trip down memory lane, remembering when “Clean eating” and “Cheat meals” was their diet in disguise. They discuss why this language can be harmful, and the perpetual cycle it throws you into. PLUS, Self care isn’t selfish! In fact, it also isn’t always luxurious or pretty. Lisa and Amy discuss the surprising ways they partake in self care, and how this allows them to show up as their TRUE selves.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I won't let my body out me out wait everything
that I'm made dope, won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning to love who I am. I get I'm strong,
I feel free, I know who everybody me. It's beautiful
and then will always out way if you feel it
(00:24):
with yours in the air, she'll love to the boom. There,
let's say good day and did you and die out
hey out way fam Amy and Lisa here and today
we're gonna be talking about terms that we need to cancel.
You know, people all over the place are getting canceled
(00:45):
left and right, which I'm not a big part of
cancel culture by any means, but these words can definitely
go and I don't want to hear them anymore. But
unfortunately it might be a while before we see that
actually happen. And then we're also going to talk about
self care and why it isn't selfish. So if you've
needed any sort of permission for self care, we will
give you that here today. But Lisa, since you're the
(01:07):
expert in this field and you know, especially as a
registered dietitian that is dedicated to you know, helping people
unlearn a lot of what we have learned much of
our lives. I mean, I'm forty years old, and I
feel like I can't remember when exactly clean eating entered
my space, but that term clean eating, but I know
(01:29):
that good and bad foods has been around in my
brain as long as I could remember, like, oh, this
is good for you, this is bad for you? And
then I know for sure it was probably around college
that I was introduced to cheat meals. And these are
three terms or I guess it maybe even four if
you count good and bad as too, that I would
(01:49):
love to go over. And if you could even break down,
I mean, what even is clean eating? I know that
how I used to define it. I'm not in the field,
but I didn't know even as a registered dietitian if
you learned that in school or that's something you went over.
And I know that you lean differently than some other dietitians,
like you're in a different space. So I feel like
(02:09):
people are like, well, what's wrong with clean eating? How
could that be harmful? Great? Great question? And to start
clean eating was a big part of my disordered eating personally.
Is there anything wrong with eating healthful, nutritious foods that
I guess technically fall into this clean category. No, But
for me and many people, we clung to clean eating
(02:32):
as a way to control what we were eating without
making it about the obvious weight. So for a lot
of people it is about the way clean eating, but
for a lot of people it may also be about
the healthfulness of the food. I don't know who coined
the term. I know who is like my leader at
this time of my disordered eating with clean eating, and
(02:53):
she's not even relevant, so I'm not even going to
say her name. But the idea was that, you know,
there are foods are clean and pure, and then there
are foods that are tainted with things such as added
sugars or preservatives or blah blah blah, and if we
eat clean, we will feel really good, you know, weight
will naturally come off, and that will be the healthful
(03:16):
way to live. And I remember the first time I
heard this being like, Okay, well I love this because
I was studying nutrition. I was not learning this in school.
To answer your question, never did clean eating come up
in my studies. That came up in my personal studies.
And I was like, well, this is great because we're
not telling people to you know, not eat certain amount
of calories. There's some freedom to this idea of I
(03:39):
could eat these foods, but stay away from these foods.
And the first red flag I could see now not
at the time, was I need to see a list
of which foods are clean and which are not. And
being a really big fan of ketchup and I love
ketchup and mustard, I know that's like very hit or
miss with a lot of people, and having to google
is Ketchup lean? Is Mustard clean? Not really looking for
(04:04):
a an approved and an unapproved list which would make
my food making decisions easy again, because that was always
what it was about for me and my disordered eating.
Whatever plan I was following, it was about how can
I default back to not thinking and just follow the
good and bad or the clean and you know whatever.
So for me, the problem didn't show up until I
(04:27):
was faced with situations that were slightly out of my control. So,
you know, it was easy to eat clean living I was.
I was in my twenties, cooking all my meals for myself,
blah blah blah. I was easy to do so for
maybe breakfast, lunch, and dinner most of the time. But
if I were to dine out with friends. Then it
was like, wait a second, what oils are they using?
(04:48):
What else went into this? And it would start to
cause me massive panic. I couldn't go out for frozen
yogurt with friends, or if I did and I would
have some, it would kind of go Your second part
to your question is Okay, well, then this is my
cheap meal. This is a break for my clean eating.
This is my one opportunity to do so. And I'm
sure tons of people can relate to this. I'm just
(05:10):
recounting my story for anybody that needs illustration. And while
that seems like a good balance, it's really not, because
it really shows that clean eating can be restrictive and
limiting and not honoring your actual wisdom of what you want.
And the extreme of the cheat meal is again that
(05:34):
limited window of I'm allowed to have this, so I'm
going to have all of it, and a completely disconnected
experience that oftentimes leads to g I discomfort, mental discomfort,
and just brings you back to Okay, now I got
to be clean again, and we need to really take
a step back to look at that cycle of what
that's doing to our mental state. I've like softened a
(05:58):
little bit around, like people saying, Okay, I just eat clean. However,
I think anyone listening to this podcast, this is language
that we want to a flag if someone else uses
around us, because it's triggering, they might speak to other
things that will cause us to question our relationship to
food and body and be again, if you're listening to
(06:20):
this podcast specifically, you have some sort of a history
of clinging to a food rule. And this is a
really easy one that gets disguised as oh, no, we're
not a diet, No no, no, we are different. This
is a lifestyle. We are cle eating clean. Yeah. It
felt much better because I said it. It It felt much
(06:41):
better to say, oh, I'm eating clean than oh I'm
on a diet. Yeah exactly. I would have never said
I'm on a diet, but no, I eat clean and
and and I guess the implication there that I've seen
a lot of people throw around. Although this was never
like my thought mentality is that if it's not clean,
it's dirty for me, that I don't know, dirty wasn't
the certn for me. It was just such a clinging
(07:02):
to clean, clean, clean, clean clean clean. And you know,
there's so many things that are are disguised as healthful.
And there's nothing wrong with eating foods that fall into
this category of clean, right, like a fruit of vegetable
whatever it is that is clean. But when if you're
only eating clean, you're going to face I promise you,
(07:26):
you know, mental turmoil when the time comes and you're
put in a situation where the foods are not on
your approved list, which is going to cause you to
leach onto the cheap, which is going to bring you
back to the clean and back to the cheat, and
you're not in your body at that point. And let's
talk to why it's harmful to put labels on food
(07:47):
such as good and bad, because I've done that for
so long, but that's what we're told, like this is bad,
this is good, but really food, food can't be bad
or good. Now the nutritious part. You talk me about
how we have outer wisdom and inner wisdom and does
that apply here? Okay, So, for example, I know you
(08:07):
brought up eminem's in a in an episode that we
recently put up right, and eminem isn't going to have
the same nutrients as an apple, right, but can we
talk about it in different language that allows us to
really figure out what we need in that moment, because
in some situations, the eminem's are exactly what you need
for your soul, for your freedom, for your health. I
(08:28):
know that might sound crazy, but and in other situations
you might need the apple to feel your best, to
satisfy what you're going after. But I think the main
issue with good and bad that is that we've gotten
so used to saying, oh, that's good for me, that's
bad for me, that's good for me, that's bad for me,
that it leaches morality too. Oh I ate these eminem's,
(08:49):
I am a bad person, or the other side. I
had a salad today, I'm such a good person. You know,
I must carry on by being so good with my diet.
And I think that's kind of where like where I have.
The big issue with good and bad is that it
bleeds into our morality, even though we might just be
talking about the food. It leaches onto us as people
whether we are being good, whether we are being bad.
(09:12):
And again, I know I keep saying that disconnection, but
as soon as we think that we're being good, we
get a little self righteous. That's up in the ego.
That's not the mind, body, as soon as we think
we're being bad, we get really hard on ourselves and
guilty and shameful, which is no longer in a state
of connection. So there's nothing wrong with learning about the
nutrition and makeup of food or using that information to
(09:36):
help inform what you want to eat, but that language
can be really really frustrating. I know for me, like
I'll be with my in laws and they're like, I'm
being so bad, I'm having blah blah blah. And I
know a lot of people are like my in laws
or my grandparents. So that's why I also give that
example sometimes is because it can be really hard to
(09:56):
be around these people that you love in many ways,
or your parents even, or your siblings and not want
to rock the boat, but feel really triggered by the
language that they're using. So you're both reaching for the
same food and then they're like, oh, I'm being bad,
I'm going to have it, you know, or this food
is bad whatever what however they're characterizing, and then all
(10:19):
of a sudden, they disrupt the experience for you that
you've just worked to neutralize. You know, you've gotten so
far where whatever food is just food, and you go
to grab it and somebody else says, oh, I'm being
so bad, or I need to work out because I'm
having this tomorrow. They make some sort of a comment.
It's very jolting. I have found, even though I'm not
triggered by it to the point where it will affect
(10:40):
my behavior, it's like, come on, you know, like, can
we just enjoy this food without having to announce all
the fears that are coming up for us? And I
think that's what's happening for a lot of people. There's fear,
and by speaking about it out loud, which we might
not realize, it feels like it takes away that bit
of anxiety that it's causing. But really we're just projecting
(11:03):
our mess onto other people. Yeah. I never realized how
much I projected until I was out of it. When
I was in it, I didn't see it. But gosh, thankfully,
a lot of my family that I was projecting onto
they weren't triggered by me. They were just annoyed by me.
But I'm sure there's other people I encountered where I
(11:24):
definitely triggered them. And I'm thankful to be in a
space now where I at least know that I won't
be that person to someone else, and not that I
think that I'm better than anybody else by any means.
It took a lot of work and I may slip
up and mess up, but I just I'm thankful to
be in a place of growth where I have moved
(11:45):
out of where I once was, which you know again
that it was a lot of projecting, a lot of judgment,
a lot of shame, a lot of uh. I was
an energy suck, and I was stealing that energy from
other people that were actually really excited about what we
were eating, like if my dad had cooked something, or
my sister and then here I come along trying to
doctor it or fix it or pull out my serving
(12:08):
before my dad adds all the good stuff, you know,
And that's just it was me missing out on an experience.
And some people that know my story, they know that
I lost my dad in April, and I would literally
give anything to eat one of his meals right now,
like that would be awesome, but I don't have that anymore.
(12:28):
So kind of like in our theme song, outweigh missing
out on family meals around the table because what Grandma
made is bad, so we're not able, is the lyric
and maybe if you go back and listen to the
intro song to the podcast, you'll really hear that line.
It's so important because there are so many meals that
(12:50):
we probably missed out on because we labeled food bad.
And I think a lot of people fall where I fell,
and I'm not sure if you fell here, Amy, but
because I was doing the clean eating or the veganism
for the wrong reasons at the time, I genuinely loved
the foods that I ate, Like I still love vegetables,
(13:11):
and I like salads honestly one of my favorite foods.
But I do to These are kind of two points.
One is I remember having my best friend and her
sister over for a meal that I cooked and it
was delicious and serving ice cream that I loved. And
this wasn't real ice cream, this was chemically engineered. Interesting
in my clean eating days by the way, that I
would also have this chemically engineered food as long as
(13:33):
it was you know, low calorie and whatever. So I
found ways to make that fit into the cleanness of it.
And you know, I loved it because I was so
used to eating it every night and that was my treat.
And they were like, what the heck is this, Lisa,
Like this taste disgusting and I was so confused, And
now if I eat that food, I'm like, Okay, this
is an ice cream, you know, And we can really
(13:54):
train our brains and our bodies to like be okay
with this version of something when in reality it's not
good at all. When you're swimming in it, it's great.
Like I'm with you. I think I probably know what
ice cream you're talking about. We don't need to like
call out brands. But like I would show up to,
you know, gatherings with people and we would be planning
(14:14):
on having ice cream that night, and everyone would kind
of bring ice cream and I would bring that, and
I thought, oh, I can't wait for everybody to try this.
It's so amazing. And You're right, like so many people
like added it to their bowl with other ice cream
and they're like, whatever this is, This is not ice cream,
and this is disgusting, and I'm like, oh my gosh,
I could eat a whole point um. So it is
(14:35):
and I couldn't see it at the time, but now
I'm on the other side, there's no way you would
catch me even ever buying it. Such hilarious because it
used to be all that I would buy. Yeah, and
then the other portion of that is because I loved
you know, I do love vegetables and whatever. It was
very easy for me to show up to a family
meal and only eat the foods that are approved by
me or allowed by me and feel like I was
(14:57):
eating enough, or that I was still very very present.
But what I have found, you know, eating the grandma's meal.
I don't have a grandma, but you know, the idea
of that, eating all the foods that are on the table,
if that you're being called to them in some way,
is nourishing at least trying it, you know. And I
encourage anybody who's like, oh no, I don't like blah
blah blah to possibly if it if it's they're you know,
(15:21):
if there's something being called to you to have that
food and everybody else is eating it, would you give
it a try? Would you have one bite? Would you
allow yourself to say, do I actually not like this food?
Or have I just told myself that because I'm so
safe and comfortable and like these other foods. Because we
eat for a lot of different reasons, and sometimes being
hyper focused on the foods that we're allowed to eat
(15:42):
isn't allowing us to fully be present at that meal.
And once we get to a place where we allow
ourselves to be fully present, that in itself is a
form of us taking care of ourselves. Like that can
be seen as a little bit of self care, which
I know we want to get into. And Lisa, I
saw on Instagram the other day you took yourself on
a lunch date. And to me, that represented self care.
(16:07):
And it's not probably something that we normally think of.
Some people might think of a bath or a massage
or a facial or getting your hair done or whatever.
You can speak to it. I don't want to speak
for you, but when I saw it, I thought, good
for her. Look at her taking care of Lisa, and
(16:27):
I want to do that. Yeah. So dining out alone
has for a long long time been my favorite way
to spend time with myself. And you know, in New
York where I live, it's very typical to get a
chopped salad and eat it at your desk or if
you're eating alone. I mean, eating alone isn't really a
popular thing, but it's something that I started to cultivate
(16:49):
in college and do while I was single, but also
while I was in a relationship in this past year
and a half, not going to restaurants as much and everything,
I just haven't had many opportunities to do so. And
so yesterday I took myself out to lunch and I
had a great time. And the key to for me
is that I'm getting what I want. I'm ordering sides,
(17:09):
I'm getting the bread basket, and I'm really present. And
so I wrote in that caption, I think that like
this is my highest form of self care because I
was having a moment with myself that was like yes,
my brain felt relief from everything else. And for me,
it was a meal out alone. And I think a
lot of people have trepidation around that. What will people
(17:32):
think about me? You know what if I ordered too
much food all of that? You know, will that will
they wait or judge me for eating all of this?
And there's nothing better than just getting what you want,
eating as much as you want of it, putting that
phone down, and being present with yourself. I think that's
what self care really is for me. Amy It's saying
(17:52):
what do I need right now? And that can look
like a million things. It might not be a meal out.
For you, it might be getting your hair to right.
For others, it might be a meditation completely free, or
a bath. But the most important thing is that if
we don't have these check in moments with ourselves, we
are projecting all of our crap all over the place afterwards.
(18:15):
And I think that's where self care gets lost in
translation when we see it depicted as manicures and spa days.
And those are perfectly fine, but what are they doing
for you? Are they giving yourself a chance to just
be quiet for a moment, be still so that you
can process all the things that you take on during
the day, Because without that, you're just, like I said,
(18:36):
spilling your mess everywhere, going a million miles an hour,
and ultimately not being your best self. Something that just
came to mind as you were talking was you got
a hammock recently, and then you sent me the link
and I ordered the hammock. And for me, that hammock
has been a form of self care because I go outside,
(19:00):
hide and I lay in kind of just relax in
my hammock, and I take deep breaths or I read
a book, and that is my time that I get
and I do leave the hammock slightly rejuvenated. I don't
want to say I'm like jumping off the handock, like
oh yeah, yes, I'm totally ready to face the day.
(19:22):
But there's something so soothing about it for me where
it does recharge me a bit in the end. But
it may not be the hammock for you. But there
was there's a time my life where I never would
have ever thought in a million years that a hammock
would have been self care for me. But here we are, well,
I think maybe we think that, you know, you kind
of just highlighted that, maybe we think that we're going
(19:42):
to leave our time whatever, that we what we put
into ourselves feeling amazing. But I don't think that's the output.
I think the output is you're a better amy for
the rest of the day because you've taken one minute
to plug in. You're a better mom, you know, all
the roles that you play in life is because you
took one second to refill your cup. That's a better
(20:02):
way to put it, well, not a better way to
put at it, but a better way to kind of
think like, Okay, why are we really doing this? And
especially because so many people feel like it's selfish. I
can't sit on the hammock. My house is a mess.
I have to pick up my kids. I have to
do this, I have work to do. If I do this,
I'm lazy. Oh God, the word lazy drives me in say,
and that's probably a whole other topic here, but if
(20:24):
you do not take a moment for yourself to put
your feet on the grass, whatever it is, you are
showing up to the world actually selfish. So I think,
you know, we hear the phrase all the time, secure
the oxygen mask for yourself before you know your child.
And the idea is, really we need to take a
little bit of care of ourselves in order to be
(20:45):
the roles that we signed up to be, that we
have a responsibility to be that we want to really be.
And I also just want to highlight I don't know
if anyone's watching the Olympics or watch the Olympics, I
don't know if you saw what Simone Biles did, she
really prioritized her her mental health. And I think, although
this is a controversial topic and very hard for people
(21:06):
to understand, how this is self care, that was a
radical act of self care in the public eye that
has has really changed the conversation around the way we
push ourselves and the way we care for ourselves. And
it was really cool to see such a young person
in such a high pressured situation say I'm actually not
(21:28):
going to compete because I need a moment. Yeah, I
mean in her for her to recognize that if she's
not fully there mentally, like she could seriously injure herself
or you know, it just wasn't the right time for her.
And yes, she was able to step by and recognize that.
And then I saw Justin Bieber put up a post
about her, which I follow him. Yes, and um, I
(21:49):
was very impressed by And I mean, I don't know
the guy right, so I don't know, but I'm just
going based off He's a child that grew up in
the spotlight, had major success as a young teen, and
then was thrown into this world of like go, go go,
and this is what's expected of you. And I love
that he was able to give her props for doing
(22:10):
what she needed to do to mentally be there. I mean,
look at what the heck is going on with Britney Spears, Like,
there's all kinds of people that are in the spotlight
that have this immense amount of pressure on them to
perform and it doesn't matter at what cost because so
many people are relying on them. And I mean, think
about Simone. She was the weight of America USA on
(22:30):
her back, right of like letting down a country that
you're at an event representing, and the controversy online about
it was just wild to me. I thought, how could
we not be supporting her in this decision, But of
course there's people that weren't. But back to the whole
Justin Bieber thing, I just thought his post was so
it was great because again he's a young person too
(22:51):
that a lot of people are looking to. And at
one point he had to completely just shut down his
tour for his mental health, and he said that people,
you know, at the bottom of his sin. He was
like someone people thought I was crazy when I did that,
but it's literally what I had to do for my
well being and my mental health. So hats off to you.
I mean, it's great that we're getting such public examples,
but I think sometimes when we bring this home to
(23:13):
me and you to our listeners, we feel like, well,
I'm not Justin Bieber you know, I have no no
I'm just kind of thinking about that out loud, because
I don't know if you remember a few weeks ago,
you know, I had to self care isn't always to
highlight that self care is not always that manicure and
that pedicure and how we see it. Sometimes it's really
making the hard choice and letting people down and showing
(23:38):
people our weaknesses. Like Amy, you and I run this
podcast together and to humanize it for a minute, sometimes
we're going through things and we can't show up as
our best podcast hosts. And two weeks ago I had
to five minutes before be like, Amy, can you handle
this one? Because I just I need the hour off,
you know. And I felt selfish right for a moment,
(23:59):
but because I shared with you, you know, the pain
point for me, and we respect mental health, I had
to do that so that the podcast, you know, could
also have the greatest opportunity to be fantastic. And so
I think sometimes the self care is is sitting out,
is making hard choices and sacrifices that in the moment
(24:20):
don't feel like they reflect who you want to be,
but you need to make them in order to make
it out and be okay. If that makes sense. Yeah,
And I think being able to have people that if
it's a work situation, that you're able to be honest
with and open up and share and have that like
a healthy dialogue. I do realize that some people listening,
(24:41):
and when you brought up how we weren't justin Bieber,
like my brain automatically went to, oh, yeah, shoot, like
we also are people that, including us, but a lot
of our listeners to they don't have the luxury of
canceling whatever they're doing because they have bills to pay, right,
But maybe what you can start to cultivate if you
don't have yet is a team, a relationship with coworkers,
(25:06):
a relationship with your boss where you can be transparent
and like, hey, like you're a hard worker, right, Well
I'm I'm assuming, but let's say that you are. But
if you do start to and I get not everybody
can have this relationship. So this is me being in
lala land. But my hope would be that you can
have someone on your side that you can go to.
(25:27):
That's where you can say I can't show up today
as best as I can, Like, is there any way
you can cover me? When it's coming from a genuine
place of like really needing help, not abusing a relationship
by any means. I hate that my brain even jumps
to that. But it really needs to come from a
place of understanding. But that comes you and I having that.
That comes from you know, back when I was going
through the loss of my dad and a bunch of
(25:49):
other things, like you showed up for me when I
couldn't show up, and so we have that that mutual understanding.
But it's because we communicate and we share things, and
some people can be so guarded in private, which there
is something to that. I'm not saying like air everything
out to the world, But who can you start to
build that I'm going to call it a team for
(26:10):
lack of a better who can be in your corner,
whether it's at work, home, life, whatever that looks like.
Who are your people that you can lean into so
that you can take that time for yourself, whatever it
may look like. If the rainy day comes and you
have to cultivate it. You can't just like boom, put
it out there and then expect someone. But because that
(26:31):
relationship was built and I understood where Lisa was coming from,
she understood where I was coming from, it was like,
oh wow, this is for real, like she needs this.
And sometimes a good cry is a great form of
self care. So if you can't get out of your
work meeting, your work, this or whatever, you don't have
a coworker to help you out, but you got to
go to the bathroom for five minutes and just cry
(26:52):
it out, give yourself that release. And that's just kind
of what I want to like frame here today is
that it's not always pretty. However, I think that us,
everyone listening here, has the power to transform the next
generation's viewpoint on self care. I had Serenader on my
podcast and she talked about her mother who had a
(27:14):
met you met, a very serious meditation practice every day
and if her mom was in this one room, the
door was on do not disturb, you know. And I
think for a lot of people it's like, no, I
can't meditate, I don't have time to meditate. But this
actually sets such an important boundary slash the way to
live that can give future parents or future people permission
(27:36):
to recognize that recharging is essential to showing up as
your true, best, fullest, most authentic self. And that could
again just look like so many things, but just don't
be limited by the idea that it has to cost
a lot, or that it um has to be something
(27:57):
even vanity related. I think that's really I think my
my most important self care things that I do for
myself probably I wouldn't want anyone to see me during Yeah.
Well yeah, so we'll just leave you all with the
hashtags self care isn't selfish? Yes? Sure, And thank you
all for listening to this episode. I really enjoyed it.
(28:17):
I know we covered a couple of different types of things,
but I think all important. And we just hope that
you're enjoying out wigh, And if you haven't subscribed to
the podcast, that you will do so wherever you listen,
and you can even write and review if you happen
to have time for that, but we do realize your
time is precious, so thank you for listening. See your
next Saturday
I won't let my body out me out wait everything
that I'm made dope, won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning to love who I am. I get I'm strong,
I feel free, I know who everybody me. It's beautiful
and then will always out way if you feel it
(00:24):
with yours in the air, she'll love to the boom. There,
let's say good day and did you and die out
hey out way fam Amy and Lisa here and today
we're gonna be talking about terms that we need to cancel.
You know, people all over the place are getting canceled
(00:45):
left and right, which I'm not a big part of
cancel culture by any means, but these words can definitely
go and I don't want to hear them anymore. But
unfortunately it might be a while before we see that
actually happen. And then we're also going to talk about
self care and why it isn't selfish. So if you've
needed any sort of permission for self care, we will
give you that here today. But Lisa, since you're the
(01:07):
expert in this field and you know, especially as a
registered dietitian that is dedicated to you know, helping people
unlearn a lot of what we have learned much of
our lives. I mean, I'm forty years old, and I
feel like I can't remember when exactly clean eating entered
my space, but that term clean eating, but I know
(01:29):
that good and bad foods has been around in my
brain as long as I could remember, like, oh, this
is good for you, this is bad for you? And
then I know for sure it was probably around college
that I was introduced to cheat meals. And these are
three terms or I guess it maybe even four if
you count good and bad as too, that I would
(01:49):
love to go over. And if you could even break down,
I mean, what even is clean eating? I know that
how I used to define it. I'm not in the field,
but I didn't know even as a registered dietitian if
you learned that in school or that's something you went over.
And I know that you lean differently than some other dietitians,
like you're in a different space. So I feel like
(02:09):
people are like, well, what's wrong with clean eating? How
could that be harmful? Great? Great question? And to start
clean eating was a big part of my disordered eating personally.
Is there anything wrong with eating healthful, nutritious foods that
I guess technically fall into this clean category. No, But
for me and many people, we clung to clean eating
(02:32):
as a way to control what we were eating without
making it about the obvious weight. So for a lot
of people it is about the way clean eating, but
for a lot of people it may also be about
the healthfulness of the food. I don't know who coined
the term. I know who is like my leader at
this time of my disordered eating with clean eating, and
(02:53):
she's not even relevant, so I'm not even going to
say her name. But the idea was that, you know,
there are foods are clean and pure, and then there
are foods that are tainted with things such as added
sugars or preservatives or blah blah blah, and if we
eat clean, we will feel really good, you know, weight
will naturally come off, and that will be the healthful
(03:16):
way to live. And I remember the first time I
heard this being like, Okay, well I love this because
I was studying nutrition. I was not learning this in school.
To answer your question, never did clean eating come up
in my studies. That came up in my personal studies.
And I was like, well, this is great because we're
not telling people to you know, not eat certain amount
of calories. There's some freedom to this idea of I
(03:39):
could eat these foods, but stay away from these foods.
And the first red flag I could see now not
at the time, was I need to see a list
of which foods are clean and which are not. And
being a really big fan of ketchup and I love
ketchup and mustard, I know that's like very hit or
miss with a lot of people, and having to google
is Ketchup lean? Is Mustard clean? Not really looking for
(04:04):
a an approved and an unapproved list which would make
my food making decisions easy again, because that was always
what it was about for me and my disordered eating.
Whatever plan I was following, it was about how can
I default back to not thinking and just follow the
good and bad or the clean and you know whatever.
So for me, the problem didn't show up until I
(04:27):
was faced with situations that were slightly out of my control. So,
you know, it was easy to eat clean living I was.
I was in my twenties, cooking all my meals for myself,
blah blah blah. I was easy to do so for
maybe breakfast, lunch, and dinner most of the time. But
if I were to dine out with friends. Then it
was like, wait a second, what oils are they using?
(04:48):
What else went into this? And it would start to
cause me massive panic. I couldn't go out for frozen
yogurt with friends, or if I did and I would
have some, it would kind of go Your second part
to your question is Okay, well, then this is my
cheap meal. This is a break for my clean eating.
This is my one opportunity to do so. And I'm
sure tons of people can relate to this. I'm just
(05:10):
recounting my story for anybody that needs illustration. And while
that seems like a good balance, it's really not, because
it really shows that clean eating can be restrictive and
limiting and not honoring your actual wisdom of what you want.
And the extreme of the cheat meal is again that
(05:34):
limited window of I'm allowed to have this, so I'm
going to have all of it, and a completely disconnected
experience that oftentimes leads to g I discomfort, mental discomfort,
and just brings you back to Okay, now I got
to be clean again, and we need to really take
a step back to look at that cycle of what
that's doing to our mental state. I've like softened a
(05:58):
little bit around, like people saying, Okay, I just eat clean. However,
I think anyone listening to this podcast, this is language
that we want to a flag if someone else uses
around us, because it's triggering, they might speak to other
things that will cause us to question our relationship to
food and body and be again, if you're listening to
(06:20):
this podcast specifically, you have some sort of a history
of clinging to a food rule. And this is a
really easy one that gets disguised as oh, no, we're
not a diet, No no, no, we are different. This
is a lifestyle. We are cle eating clean. Yeah. It
felt much better because I said it. It It felt much
(06:41):
better to say, oh, I'm eating clean than oh I'm
on a diet. Yeah exactly. I would have never said
I'm on a diet, but no, I eat clean and
and and I guess the implication there that I've seen
a lot of people throw around. Although this was never
like my thought mentality is that if it's not clean,
it's dirty for me, that I don't know, dirty wasn't
the certn for me. It was just such a clinging
(07:02):
to clean, clean, clean, clean clean clean. And you know,
there's so many things that are are disguised as healthful.
And there's nothing wrong with eating foods that fall into
this category of clean, right, like a fruit of vegetable
whatever it is that is clean. But when if you're
only eating clean, you're going to face I promise you,
(07:26):
you know, mental turmoil when the time comes and you're
put in a situation where the foods are not on
your approved list, which is going to cause you to
leach onto the cheap, which is going to bring you
back to the clean and back to the cheat, and
you're not in your body at that point. And let's
talk to why it's harmful to put labels on food
(07:47):
such as good and bad, because I've done that for
so long, but that's what we're told, like this is bad,
this is good, but really food, food can't be bad
or good. Now the nutritious part. You talk me about
how we have outer wisdom and inner wisdom and does
that apply here? Okay, So, for example, I know you
(08:07):
brought up eminem's in a in an episode that we
recently put up right, and eminem isn't going to have
the same nutrients as an apple, right, but can we
talk about it in different language that allows us to
really figure out what we need in that moment, because
in some situations, the eminem's are exactly what you need
for your soul, for your freedom, for your health. I
(08:28):
know that might sound crazy, but and in other situations
you might need the apple to feel your best, to
satisfy what you're going after. But I think the main
issue with good and bad that is that we've gotten
so used to saying, oh, that's good for me, that's
bad for me, that's good for me, that's bad for me,
that it leaches morality too. Oh I ate these eminem's,
(08:49):
I am a bad person, or the other side. I
had a salad today, I'm such a good person. You know,
I must carry on by being so good with my diet.
And I think that's kind of where like where I have.
The big issue with good and bad is that it
bleeds into our morality, even though we might just be
talking about the food. It leaches onto us as people
whether we are being good, whether we are being bad.
(09:12):
And again, I know I keep saying that disconnection, but
as soon as we think that we're being good, we
get a little self righteous. That's up in the ego.
That's not the mind, body, as soon as we think
we're being bad, we get really hard on ourselves and
guilty and shameful, which is no longer in a state
of connection. So there's nothing wrong with learning about the
nutrition and makeup of food or using that information to
(09:36):
help inform what you want to eat, but that language
can be really really frustrating. I know for me, like
I'll be with my in laws and they're like, I'm
being so bad, I'm having blah blah blah. And I
know a lot of people are like my in laws
or my grandparents. So that's why I also give that
example sometimes is because it can be really hard to
(09:56):
be around these people that you love in many ways,
or your parents even, or your siblings and not want
to rock the boat, but feel really triggered by the
language that they're using. So you're both reaching for the
same food and then they're like, oh, I'm being bad,
I'm going to have it, you know, or this food
is bad whatever what however they're characterizing, and then all
(10:19):
of a sudden, they disrupt the experience for you that
you've just worked to neutralize. You know, you've gotten so
far where whatever food is just food, and you go
to grab it and somebody else says, oh, I'm being
so bad, or I need to work out because I'm
having this tomorrow. They make some sort of a comment.
It's very jolting. I have found, even though I'm not
triggered by it to the point where it will affect
(10:40):
my behavior, it's like, come on, you know, like, can
we just enjoy this food without having to announce all
the fears that are coming up for us? And I
think that's what's happening for a lot of people. There's fear,
and by speaking about it out loud, which we might
not realize, it feels like it takes away that bit
of anxiety that it's causing. But really we're just projecting
(11:03):
our mess onto other people. Yeah. I never realized how
much I projected until I was out of it. When
I was in it, I didn't see it. But gosh, thankfully,
a lot of my family that I was projecting onto
they weren't triggered by me. They were just annoyed by me.
But I'm sure there's other people I encountered where I
(11:24):
definitely triggered them. And I'm thankful to be in a
space now where I at least know that I won't
be that person to someone else, and not that I
think that I'm better than anybody else by any means.
It took a lot of work and I may slip
up and mess up, but I just I'm thankful to
be in a place of growth where I have moved
(11:45):
out of where I once was, which you know again
that it was a lot of projecting, a lot of judgment,
a lot of shame, a lot of uh. I was
an energy suck, and I was stealing that energy from
other people that were actually really excited about what we
were eating, like if my dad had cooked something, or
my sister and then here I come along trying to
doctor it or fix it or pull out my serving
(12:08):
before my dad adds all the good stuff, you know,
And that's just it was me missing out on an experience.
And some people that know my story, they know that
I lost my dad in April, and I would literally
give anything to eat one of his meals right now,
like that would be awesome, but I don't have that anymore.
(12:28):
So kind of like in our theme song, outweigh missing
out on family meals around the table because what Grandma
made is bad, so we're not able, is the lyric
and maybe if you go back and listen to the
intro song to the podcast, you'll really hear that line.
It's so important because there are so many meals that
(12:50):
we probably missed out on because we labeled food bad.
And I think a lot of people fall where I fell,
and I'm not sure if you fell here, Amy, but
because I was doing the clean eating or the veganism
for the wrong reasons at the time, I genuinely loved
the foods that I ate, Like I still love vegetables,
(13:11):
and I like salads honestly one of my favorite foods.
But I do to These are kind of two points.
One is I remember having my best friend and her
sister over for a meal that I cooked and it
was delicious and serving ice cream that I loved. And
this wasn't real ice cream, this was chemically engineered. Interesting
in my clean eating days by the way, that I
would also have this chemically engineered food as long as
(13:33):
it was you know, low calorie and whatever. So I
found ways to make that fit into the cleanness of it.
And you know, I loved it because I was so
used to eating it every night and that was my treat.
And they were like, what the heck is this, Lisa,
Like this taste disgusting and I was so confused, And
now if I eat that food, I'm like, Okay, this
is an ice cream, you know, And we can really
(13:54):
train our brains and our bodies to like be okay
with this version of something when in reality it's not
good at all. When you're swimming in it, it's great.
Like I'm with you. I think I probably know what
ice cream you're talking about. We don't need to like
call out brands. But like I would show up to,
you know, gatherings with people and we would be planning
(14:14):
on having ice cream that night, and everyone would kind
of bring ice cream and I would bring that, and
I thought, oh, I can't wait for everybody to try this.
It's so amazing. And You're right, like so many people
like added it to their bowl with other ice cream
and they're like, whatever this is, This is not ice cream,
and this is disgusting, and I'm like, oh my gosh,
I could eat a whole point um. So it is
(14:35):
and I couldn't see it at the time, but now
I'm on the other side, there's no way you would
catch me even ever buying it. Such hilarious because it
used to be all that I would buy. Yeah, and
then the other portion of that is because I loved
you know, I do love vegetables and whatever. It was
very easy for me to show up to a family
meal and only eat the foods that are approved by
me or allowed by me and feel like I was
(14:57):
eating enough, or that I was still very very present.
But what I have found, you know, eating the grandma's meal.
I don't have a grandma, but you know, the idea
of that, eating all the foods that are on the table,
if that you're being called to them in some way,
is nourishing at least trying it, you know. And I
encourage anybody who's like, oh no, I don't like blah
blah blah to possibly if it if it's they're you know,
(15:21):
if there's something being called to you to have that
food and everybody else is eating it, would you give
it a try? Would you have one bite? Would you
allow yourself to say, do I actually not like this food?
Or have I just told myself that because I'm so
safe and comfortable and like these other foods. Because we
eat for a lot of different reasons, and sometimes being
hyper focused on the foods that we're allowed to eat
(15:42):
isn't allowing us to fully be present at that meal.
And once we get to a place where we allow
ourselves to be fully present, that in itself is a
form of us taking care of ourselves. Like that can
be seen as a little bit of self care, which
I know we want to get into. And Lisa, I
saw on Instagram the other day you took yourself on
a lunch date. And to me, that represented self care.
(16:07):
And it's not probably something that we normally think of.
Some people might think of a bath or a massage
or a facial or getting your hair done or whatever.
You can speak to it. I don't want to speak
for you, but when I saw it, I thought, good
for her. Look at her taking care of Lisa, and
(16:27):
I want to do that. Yeah. So dining out alone
has for a long long time been my favorite way
to spend time with myself. And you know, in New
York where I live, it's very typical to get a
chopped salad and eat it at your desk or if
you're eating alone. I mean, eating alone isn't really a
popular thing, but it's something that I started to cultivate
(16:49):
in college and do while I was single, but also
while I was in a relationship in this past year
and a half, not going to restaurants as much and everything,
I just haven't had many opportunities to do so. And
so yesterday I took myself out to lunch and I
had a great time. And the key to for me
is that I'm getting what I want. I'm ordering sides,
(17:09):
I'm getting the bread basket, and I'm really present. And
so I wrote in that caption, I think that like
this is my highest form of self care because I
was having a moment with myself that was like yes,
my brain felt relief from everything else. And for me,
it was a meal out alone. And I think a
lot of people have trepidation around that. What will people
(17:32):
think about me? You know what if I ordered too
much food all of that? You know, will that will
they wait or judge me for eating all of this?
And there's nothing better than just getting what you want,
eating as much as you want of it, putting that
phone down, and being present with yourself. I think that's
what self care really is for me. Amy It's saying
(17:52):
what do I need right now? And that can look
like a million things. It might not be a meal out.
For you, it might be getting your hair to right.
For others, it might be a meditation completely free, or
a bath. But the most important thing is that if
we don't have these check in moments with ourselves, we
are projecting all of our crap all over the place afterwards.
(18:15):
And I think that's where self care gets lost in
translation when we see it depicted as manicures and spa days.
And those are perfectly fine, but what are they doing
for you? Are they giving yourself a chance to just
be quiet for a moment, be still so that you
can process all the things that you take on during
the day, Because without that, you're just, like I said,
(18:36):
spilling your mess everywhere, going a million miles an hour,
and ultimately not being your best self. Something that just
came to mind as you were talking was you got
a hammock recently, and then you sent me the link
and I ordered the hammock. And for me, that hammock
has been a form of self care because I go outside,
(19:00):
hide and I lay in kind of just relax in
my hammock, and I take deep breaths or I read
a book, and that is my time that I get
and I do leave the hammock slightly rejuvenated. I don't
want to say I'm like jumping off the handock, like
oh yeah, yes, I'm totally ready to face the day.
(19:22):
But there's something so soothing about it for me where
it does recharge me a bit in the end. But
it may not be the hammock for you. But there
was there's a time my life where I never would
have ever thought in a million years that a hammock
would have been self care for me. But here we are, well,
I think maybe we think that, you know, you kind
of just highlighted that, maybe we think that we're going
(19:42):
to leave our time whatever, that we what we put
into ourselves feeling amazing. But I don't think that's the output.
I think the output is you're a better amy for
the rest of the day because you've taken one minute
to plug in. You're a better mom, you know, all
the roles that you play in life is because you
took one second to refill your cup. That's a better
(20:02):
way to put it, well, not a better way to
put at it, but a better way to kind of
think like, Okay, why are we really doing this? And
especially because so many people feel like it's selfish. I
can't sit on the hammock. My house is a mess.
I have to pick up my kids. I have to
do this, I have work to do. If I do this,
I'm lazy. Oh God, the word lazy drives me in say,
and that's probably a whole other topic here, but if
(20:24):
you do not take a moment for yourself to put
your feet on the grass, whatever it is, you are
showing up to the world actually selfish. So I think,
you know, we hear the phrase all the time, secure
the oxygen mask for yourself before you know your child.
And the idea is, really we need to take a
little bit of care of ourselves in order to be
(20:45):
the roles that we signed up to be, that we
have a responsibility to be that we want to really be.
And I also just want to highlight I don't know
if anyone's watching the Olympics or watch the Olympics, I
don't know if you saw what Simone Biles did, she
really prioritized her her mental health. And I think, although
this is a controversial topic and very hard for people
(21:06):
to understand, how this is self care, that was a
radical act of self care in the public eye that
has has really changed the conversation around the way we
push ourselves and the way we care for ourselves. And
it was really cool to see such a young person
in such a high pressured situation say I'm actually not
(21:28):
going to compete because I need a moment. Yeah, I
mean in her for her to recognize that if she's
not fully there mentally, like she could seriously injure herself
or you know, it just wasn't the right time for her.
And yes, she was able to step by and recognize that.
And then I saw Justin Bieber put up a post
about her, which I follow him. Yes, and um, I
(21:49):
was very impressed by And I mean, I don't know
the guy right, so I don't know, but I'm just
going based off He's a child that grew up in
the spotlight, had major success as a young teen, and
then was thrown into this world of like go, go go,
and this is what's expected of you. And I love
that he was able to give her props for doing
(22:10):
what she needed to do to mentally be there. I mean,
look at what the heck is going on with Britney Spears, Like,
there's all kinds of people that are in the spotlight
that have this immense amount of pressure on them to
perform and it doesn't matter at what cost because so
many people are relying on them. And I mean, think
about Simone. She was the weight of America USA on
(22:30):
her back, right of like letting down a country that
you're at an event representing, and the controversy online about
it was just wild to me. I thought, how could
we not be supporting her in this decision, But of
course there's people that weren't. But back to the whole
Justin Bieber thing, I just thought his post was so
it was great because again he's a young person too
(22:51):
that a lot of people are looking to. And at
one point he had to completely just shut down his
tour for his mental health, and he said that people,
you know, at the bottom of his sin. He was
like someone people thought I was crazy when I did that,
but it's literally what I had to do for my
well being and my mental health. So hats off to you.
I mean, it's great that we're getting such public examples,
but I think sometimes when we bring this home to
(23:13):
me and you to our listeners, we feel like, well,
I'm not Justin Bieber you know, I have no no
I'm just kind of thinking about that out loud, because
I don't know if you remember a few weeks ago,
you know, I had to self care isn't always to
highlight that self care is not always that manicure and
that pedicure and how we see it. Sometimes it's really
making the hard choice and letting people down and showing
(23:38):
people our weaknesses. Like Amy, you and I run this
podcast together and to humanize it for a minute, sometimes
we're going through things and we can't show up as
our best podcast hosts. And two weeks ago I had
to five minutes before be like, Amy, can you handle
this one? Because I just I need the hour off,
you know. And I felt selfish right for a moment,
(23:59):
but because I shared with you, you know, the pain
point for me, and we respect mental health, I had
to do that so that the podcast, you know, could
also have the greatest opportunity to be fantastic. And so
I think sometimes the self care is is sitting out,
is making hard choices and sacrifices that in the moment
(24:20):
don't feel like they reflect who you want to be,
but you need to make them in order to make
it out and be okay. If that makes sense. Yeah,
And I think being able to have people that if
it's a work situation, that you're able to be honest
with and open up and share and have that like
a healthy dialogue. I do realize that some people listening,
(24:41):
and when you brought up how we weren't justin Bieber,
like my brain automatically went to, oh, yeah, shoot, like
we also are people that, including us, but a lot
of our listeners to they don't have the luxury of
canceling whatever they're doing because they have bills to pay, right,
But maybe what you can start to cultivate if you
don't have yet is a team, a relationship with coworkers,
(25:06):
a relationship with your boss where you can be transparent
and like, hey, like you're a hard worker, right, Well
I'm I'm assuming, but let's say that you are. But
if you do start to and I get not everybody
can have this relationship. So this is me being in
lala land. But my hope would be that you can
have someone on your side that you can go to.
(25:27):
That's where you can say I can't show up today
as best as I can, Like, is there any way
you can cover me? When it's coming from a genuine
place of like really needing help, not abusing a relationship
by any means. I hate that my brain even jumps
to that. But it really needs to come from a
place of understanding. But that comes you and I having that.
That comes from you know, back when I was going
through the loss of my dad and a bunch of
(25:49):
other things, like you showed up for me when I
couldn't show up, and so we have that that mutual understanding.
But it's because we communicate and we share things, and
some people can be so guarded in private, which there
is something to that. I'm not saying like air everything
out to the world, But who can you start to
build that I'm going to call it a team for
(26:10):
lack of a better who can be in your corner,
whether it's at work, home, life, whatever that looks like.
Who are your people that you can lean into so
that you can take that time for yourself, whatever it
may look like. If the rainy day comes and you
have to cultivate it. You can't just like boom, put
it out there and then expect someone. But because that
(26:31):
relationship was built and I understood where Lisa was coming from,
she understood where I was coming from, it was like,
oh wow, this is for real, like she needs this.
And sometimes a good cry is a great form of
self care. So if you can't get out of your
work meeting, your work, this or whatever, you don't have
a coworker to help you out, but you got to
go to the bathroom for five minutes and just cry
(26:52):
it out, give yourself that release. And that's just kind
of what I want to like frame here today is
that it's not always pretty. However, I think that us,
everyone listening here, has the power to transform the next
generation's viewpoint on self care. I had Serenader on my
podcast and she talked about her mother who had a
(27:14):
met you met, a very serious meditation practice every day
and if her mom was in this one room, the
door was on do not disturb, you know. And I
think for a lot of people it's like, no, I
can't meditate, I don't have time to meditate. But this
actually sets such an important boundary slash the way to
live that can give future parents or future people permission
(27:36):
to recognize that recharging is essential to showing up as
your true, best, fullest, most authentic self. And that could
again just look like so many things, but just don't
be limited by the idea that it has to cost
a lot, or that it um has to be something
(27:57):
even vanity related. I think that's really I think my
my most important self care things that I do for
myself probably I wouldn't want anyone to see me during Yeah.
Well yeah, so we'll just leave you all with the
hashtags self care isn't selfish? Yes? Sure, And thank you
all for listening to this episode. I really enjoyed it.
(28:17):
I know we covered a couple of different types of things,
but I think all important. And we just hope that
you're enjoying out wigh, And if you haven't subscribed to
the podcast, that you will do so wherever you listen,
and you can even write and review if you happen
to have time for that, but we do realize your
time is precious, so thank you for listening. See your
next Saturday
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
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Amy Brown
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