December 12, 2020 • 31 mins
@eatswithclaire discusses the role her partner plays in supporting her eating disorder recovery. While Claire speaks specifically about her partner, her advice applies to any relationships you may have-- whether it be a mother, father, sibling, or even a friend. We learn what we can do to support our loved ones who are struggling and/or how we ourselves can ask for the support we need.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Maybe that's Lisa, and we're just two girls that want
to have a conversation with you. Dear sixteen year old
Andrea hey gorsgeous, Dear younger Lauren. Each episode is stories
from people I would deprive myself. Why myself obsessively? Because
I was eating healthy? I couldn't understand that I had
a problem with food. Losing my period scared me the most.
My story starts when I was around seven. That's when
(00:24):
I started to hate my body. Body image is like
our inner picture of our outer self healthy behaviors. I
had a much bigger role at all health than the
actual number on the scales. Internal dialogue can be so
powerful and often it's super negative and critical in a
way that we wouldn't talk to other people that we
care about. When you start to share your story, that
(00:44):
gives other people the courage to share theirs. I know
you would be proud now of how far you have
come in your relationship to food, exercise, and to yourself.
I felt freedom, I've gained relationships. I've found my true
sense of self worth. There's one thing I need you
to take away. You're going to be okay, happy Saturday.
(01:05):
We are about two weeks away from Christmas, which is crazy,
and we just hope whatever y'all are doing this holiday season,
that you're able to be around family and especially significant
others if you have them in your life that support
you and your journey and what you're going through, which
is what today's episode is about. But in full disclosure,
(01:26):
this is an intro to another intro then to the episode,
because Lisa and I recorded with Claire a little bit
ago and then did a different intro for it where
I shared an experience of you know, what it was
like to date me back in the day when I
had an eating disorder, and then Lisa said, oh my goodness,
I have this amazing course coming up that I want
(01:47):
people to know about. So we're just gonna tell you
all about that really quick and then we'll get into
the intro and then the episode. Yeah, So I just
didn't want anyone to miss the opportunity I'm hosting free
live training is all this week. So starting Monday all
through next Sunday, there's five opportunities to join me for
a live training on emotional eating and I called it
(02:08):
the Emotional Eating Action Plan, And I feel like Amy,
you probably agree, like emotional eating has a really bad rap.
First of all, there's no one who hasn't experienced emotional eating,
but it's kind of like this thing that we're always
trying to solve. And I have found with my clients
and myself that emotional eating isn't good and it's not bad.
(02:30):
And I think it's really important that we recognize, like
we do here, that there's a gray area. And when
we do approach emotional eating in a new way, like
I'm going to show you step by step, you're changing
your relationship not only to food, but to yourself, because
underneath the emotional eating are the emotions. And when we're
only targeting the eating, we're going to just find ourselves
(02:52):
back in that cycle over and over again. This has
been an emotional year for all of us, right like
it's been, it's been crazy, And I know that so
many people feel badly for eating emotionally. And I'm of
the thought that food can be comforting, food can be safe.
It's certainly safer and less dangerous or not dangerous at all,
(03:15):
compared to some substances that we could use during this time.
So I want to really open your mind to see
that food can be part of your healing emotionally, but
that you also have other tools and if you choose
to eat emotionally, this is kind of the real crux
of it. I wanted to be a different experience than
ever before. I want you to allow the food to
be the comfort rather than allowing the food to be
(03:36):
the band aid that then cause extra emotional turmoil and
mental pain. If that makes sense. Well, so where do
people go to find this? Because it already sounds amazing
to me and like it will be so beneficial to
a lot of people, similar to the bonus episode that
you put out before Thanksgiving to really walk people through
holiday meals and eating and the pressure of that. And
(03:58):
You're right, this has been an emotional year. So now
I love that you're putting this out to walk people
through emotional eating and I feel like I'm gonna benefit
from this as well. So I need to know the
details where to find it. So to find the webinar,
you can go to fork the Noise dot com forward
slash webinar. You'll be registered right away and you'll get
a workbook before the class reminders all that good stuff
(04:20):
and on the course, I'm also going to be introducing
and sharing more about my new course for the Noise,
Hunger and Fullness, which kicks off January third. Awesome, love it.
Thank you Lisa for all that you do to empower
us to have a healthy relationship with our bodies and
with food. I don't think i've ever I'm not saying
(04:41):
no one's ever done it, but not in my bubble,
in my world have I had anybody say hey, it's
okay to emotional eat and I want to help you
through that, And I want to help you understand because
I think you're right. Society has taught us that emotional
eating is a way to just escape our feel links
and then yes, use it as a band aid and
(05:02):
then beat ourselves up about it afterwards. And there are
articles online, let's say, how to cure emotional eating, like
the methods and demonizing language that we use around doing
something so pure. So just trying to help ourselves through
during a hard time really shows how we need to
like really shine light on the language that we use
around things and that we have been exposed to and
(05:25):
really rethink about those things. Yeah, and you're giving me
hope that while in others hope too, that there can
be a positive experience from the emotional eating. It doesn't
have to be a band aid left with shame and guilt.
It can actually be quite healing and you're left feeling
better than before. But we have to learn how to
(05:47):
do that because nobody has ever taught us that before.
So thank you for helping us do that. If you
leave with one thing, even just from this intro, and
you don't even come to the webinar, I just want
you to know that you're not alone. I feel like
when we're in those moments, we feel like we are
the only person that struggles with our emotions, the only
person that feels kind of like a zombie compelled to
go to the kitchen. It's a very out of body experience,
(06:09):
and it makes us feel like something's really wrong with us.
Why can't we just not do it? And So if
you don't even come to the webinar and you're here
now and you find yourself emotional eating, I hope that
you hear Amy and I say, we get it. We've
been there and you're just a human. Okay, let's jump
into our real intro before the great episode with Claire
Hey outweigh fam Amy and Lisa here with a little
(06:32):
intro before we get into today's episode, and Lisa is
the one that started saying outweigh fam and I just
got to say, I love that, and I'm going to
start doing it because we are a family trying to
educate ourselves, support ourselves, encourage ourselves to get through this
crazy world of disordered eating and eating disorders. And we've
got Claire coming on today and she's gonna be talking
(06:54):
about her relationship with her boyfriend and how her eating
disorder affected their relationship, and then how they were able
to work through it, and then where they are on
the other side of it now that he's in the
know and able to support her as best as possible.
Lisa and I are both married, and we both have
been in other relationships where eating disorders have gotten the way.
I literally just had a memory of myself in college
(07:18):
with my college boyfriend. I see now why he broke
up with me. I just had that. I don't need
to get into all the details that I hadn't thought
of this memory and forever. It's weird how when you're talking,
certain things just pop into your head. And I remember
he made me eggs and he used butter and then
used the yolk in all the eggs instead of like
(07:39):
mixing egg whites with egg and I freaked out. I
freaked out he made me eggs. I should have been like, Wow,
thanks for making me eggs, college boyfriend, You're amazing, But
I lost my mind. I couldn't eat it. I went
a little bit crazy. And yeah, we didn't last, so
(07:59):
I now see why. But he was someone that was
actually really special to me. But I saw how my
Even now that i'm thinking of him, I'm thinking of
another trip we went on where it was like a
little weekend with at someone's ranch. And we stopped somewhere
and someone was selling Girl Scout cookies and we bought
some and I ate the entire box of thin mints
(08:20):
on the drive and then I hated myself for eating
that entire box and then I acted like a total
be the rest of the day on the trip, and
I was a complete Debbi downer. Again, Guys, I have
no idea why he broke up with me. I'm just kidding.
But all this to say that if you're in a relationship,
whether it's a romantic one or you've got a sister, roommate,
(08:41):
a best friend, you live with your parents. Your behaviors
are going to affect that relationship for sure, there's no
way around it. What I by the way, if Landa
Lakes could see you, then I mean take a moment
the little butter shout out Landa Lakes, who I have
a partnership with, and honestly, as a partnership, I never
would have been able to take one in my disordered
eating days because I would have said, Butter, I can't
(09:04):
do that. And then now I would yes if my
husband or whomever, if that boyfriend was back in my
life and made me eggs with yolk and butter, I'd
be like, this tastes amazing, thank you. And yeah. So
when Claire will get into it, but she talks about
how she would lie and manipulate, she kind of had
a secret relationship with her eating disorder, and I thought
(09:25):
it was so interesting. You know, when we think about
relationships and lying, we think about cheating with another person.
But Claire kind of reminded me about a relationship that
I used to have an old boyfriend who didn't know
that I was struggling, because I didn't really know I
was struggling, but I remember so many things that I
did in secrecy behind his back because I didn't want
him to know. And it's so interesting when you think
(09:46):
about a relationship, whether again it's with a partner or
a sister or a friend, when you have a secret
and you don't want somebody to know about it, it
creates a big divide between the two of you and
you get closer with your eating disorder or your just
disordered eating them that person. So I just think it's
really important to think about honesty in relationships when it
(10:07):
comes to food and an individual and who you're choosing
or which you're choosing. I know eating disorder isn't a person,
but it becomes you're choosing the eating disorder over a
valuable relationship in your life. And this episode with Claire's
actually came because one of you deemed me asking how
can my partner support me? He wants to, but I
don't know what to tell him to do. So just
(10:28):
a reminder that we take your request very seriously and
you could email us at any time with what you
think would be helpful. And again, if you need to
know our email, it is hello at Outweigh podcast dot
com and we absolutely love hearing from you, so please
send us notes and we hope you enjoy today's episode.
Here go, Welcome back to another episode of Outweigh. Today
(10:51):
we're joined by our friend Claire. She's at Eats with
Claire on Instagram and she is an eating disorder recovery
account turned amazing human being that just wants everybody to
learn how to accept themselves. So we brought Claire on
because we got a question from one of you asking
us about how to let our partners in during recovery.
(11:12):
The question said, I've been in a relationship for one
and a half years and recently opened up about disordered
eating and the thoughts and habits surrounding it to my boyfriend.
He's very supportive, but he struggles to understand and makes
comments about how I'm ridiculous or crazy for even thinking that.
I asked him to listen to Outweigh and that has helped,
but he's always asking for what more he can do.
I can see how upset it makes him when I'm
(11:34):
skipping dessert or working out extra so that we can
have a date night, which in turn only makes me
feel worse. Could you cover this topic? So that was
the request, and it's such a good question and Claire,
I followed you for a long time and watching you
with your partner, I thought you could kind of share
some information on your eating disorder and how your partner
has been a helpful tool. Yeah. I definitely relate to
(11:58):
a lot of what that girl said it and definitely
found that my disordered eating did cause some issues to rise,
but that a partner can help support you do the
work to help heal, and that the disordered eating doesn't
have to get in the way of your relationship and
it can actually help bring you together and build a
(12:18):
deeper sense of trust. And I feel like there's a
way to do that. How did you open up to
your partner about your relationship to food or body image
and did he understand immediately? Yeah. Before Blake and I
started a romantic relationship, we were acquaintances and then friends.
This was my freshman year of college, so we were
all in dorm rooms together and when we first met,
(12:39):
he actually told me now that his first memory of
me before we were friends was me weighing out eminem's
on a food scale, sitting in like the dorm room lobby,
just like weighing them out, And it was so normalized
that I wasn't trying to hide it, and he didn't
realize it was an issue for me. And I've struggled
with binging and a lack of control around food. And
(13:02):
when we became friends, we would start hanging out together
and we would eat snacks and I would tear through
family sized bags of chips and like giant boxes of cereals.
But I never was open about how it was really
feeling around the food, so I kind of played it
off as just like being that girl who ate a lot.
But once we actually started dating, I started opening up
(13:23):
about how I was feeling and how much guilt I
felt when I would eat certain foods or would eat
certain amounts, and I was clearly very scared of weight gain.
I always talked about my weight how and I would
always ask about how I looked went to him, it
didn't matter, but Blake understood that the feelings I feel
about myself and about food were very real. But I
(13:45):
don't think he fully understood my situation and how it
wasn't something that I could simply just stop doing or
stop thinking. Was there a moment you went to him
and kind of had us sit down or was it
just more organic it was more organic. I talked to
him about my past struggles with restriction, but at this point,
(14:05):
when I was struggling with binging, I didn't recognize it
as a disorder. I viewed it as my own lack
of ability to control myself around food, and so it
was kind of hard for us to navigate that at
the time because I was telling him, like, I just
need to learn to control my food better, and he
didn't have that knowledge yet to recognize that it was
(14:27):
more than just that. How did you yourself realize that
binging was a disorder and a thing? Because I too
felt as though I had nowhere to turn because nobody
could relate and I didn't know what I was doing.
I wasn't in control, but nobody was talking about it,
so I didn't realize that it was actually a thing.
I think I always knew that it wasn't just about
(14:51):
the lack of control, but it wasn't just about trying
to control the food, but it was it was about
so much more. And I think I came to recognize
that because I eventually got so tired of the constant
cycle of restricting and binging, and I wasn't able to
be present in my life. I was binging three or
(15:11):
four or five times a week, and if I wasn't binging,
I was restricting and my whole mind, my whole life,
was consumed by thoughts about numbers and about food and
my body. And eventually I was like, I really want
to heal this, and I would look up ways on Google,
like how to stop binging, and some of them were like, oh,
(15:31):
you just need to control your food better. But then
I discovered some people talking about how that wasn't the answer. Well,
I feel like that could be an entire episode on
its own, and we should definitely have you back on
to talk about the different methods of recovery. So Blake
maybe didn't understand that the way that you were controlling
your food was an issue. But with intimacy, I imagined
(15:55):
that that could have been a problem, you know, somebody
touching your body was there were there issues with intimacy
that we're showing up, maybe more visibly than the food
being a control. It definitely got in the way when
I didn't want to take part in it, sometimes for
very extended periods of time, and I would always in
fear of how my partner viewed my body. I feel
(16:17):
like we get told that sexy is a look, or
that we get told that confidence is sexy, but confidence
comes from looking a certain way. So it was really
hard for me to fight that messaging that I feel
like is everywhere, and it took a lot of work
and time to really understand that we don't have to
look a certain way to feel sexy or confident, and
(16:37):
that intimacy is about so much more than just that.
I remember feeling more self conscious about my body while
having a partner than I did even before that, because
I knew that he would notice all the day to
day changes, would bloat and whatnot, not that he really
cared about that, and that was something that I had
to really learn to believe later on. But it definitely
(17:00):
got in the way. When we're binging and restricting, we
often are bloated because we're not eating you know, normal
quantities of food, and our bodies are are compensating in
funny ways, so it's not even just in our heads.
Sometimes it's very real and painful, even which can of
course be you know, when something is painful, we're certainly
not feeling sexy. So when I talked about intimacy, there,
(17:22):
you know, I think all of our minds went to
intimacy in the bedroom. But intimacy is also just moments
of you know, odd being on the couch and watching
TV or going out on a date night or whatever
it is, where you're just really present with another being.
So I actually we went really like we zoomed in there.
I just want to zoom out for a moment and
(17:42):
ask if Blake felt like something was missing intimacy wise
in your relationship, not necessarily related to you know, sexual stuff. Yeah. Completely,
I know that there were multiple times where he would
talk to me and say like, I feel like you
don't want to be with me. And it wasn't that,
but it was that I wasn't fully present. I wasn't
(18:05):
showing him love and intimate ways, not just physical ways.
But it was like I wasn't really trying to connect
because my mind was somewhere else. I can definitely relate, Amy,
can you, oh for sure? And so how have you
seen your relationship with Blake before that your realization and
your talk and support as you'll have navigated through it.
To describe the difference now, Just to offer hope and
(18:28):
encouragement for anybody else that's in it that there is
another side. I feel like talking through it all with
him and working through it together really helped bring us closer.
We are very open with communication. We have such a
deep sense of trust in all aspects because we had
to work through it together. I remember during that process
(18:49):
of trying to figure out how I could get better
with it, he would just ask a lot of questions
of like what can I do and what can he do? Also?
And we really had to talk through what we both
wanted from each other and understand that sometimes maybe I
wouldn't be able to do something, but if I was
trying to do it, but that was good for both
(19:11):
of us. I love that. So what are some some
red flags that someone could look out for? Because, I mean,
looking back on my past relationships before Evan, I would
just prioritize everything over a relationship and I would have
never said that I was doing that and that was
not right. So what are some red flags that you're
disordered eating or eating disorder are getting between you and
(19:34):
your relationship with another person? So from an individual point
of view, what can we look out for? So, like
you just said, things like choosing to engage in behaviors
that might be fueling you're disordered eating over things that
will help your relationship. Those are definitely red flags. The
things that immediately came to mind for me were things
(19:55):
like lying, manipulation, projection, trust, and honesty are things that
are really important fundamentals to a healthy relationship in my opinion.
But in the past, there were times I would choose
holding on too and hiding my disordered behaviors over being
honest and open with my partner. There were times when
I lied about what I ate, what I did, how
(20:18):
I was feeling, and how I was doing, and when
I'd get confronted about it, I was so scared that
that would mean having to give up my disordered eating
that I would essentially guess like my partner make them
feel bad for assuming that of me. I think projection
is important. Some people may not even be aware that
they're doing that, but I know that I did that
(20:38):
as well. So can you can you speak to projection? Yeah?
I remember times when Blake was genuinely trying to help
me or just trying to understand what was going on,
and whenever he'd ask anything, I would get so angry.
And I look back, and it's not that I was
angry at him, but I was angry that I might
(21:00):
get my disordered eating taken away from me, and so
I would project that onto him and get angry at
him when he wasn't doing anything necessarily wrong. And there
are other times where I'd project in a different way
and I'd make comments about his food that was also
really unhealthy because he never struggled with disordered eating, but
(21:21):
it almost made him feel like he should care more
about it. Wow, that makes so much sense. That was
what I was I was curious to see if that
type of projection came out, because I certainly did that
not only to my husband, but it happens in other
relationships too. So if you're listening right now and you
don't have a significant other, you may have a sister
(21:42):
or best friend or roommate or a mom and a dad.
I did it to everyone around me, so to make
other people feel uncomfortable about what they're eating, especially when
they don't have what you're struggling with, and then maybe
you're part of them, maybe even developing. Did he ever
become self conscious about his food or try to hide
things from you to avoid that confrontation. Yeah, he never
(22:06):
tried to hide things. But I think there were times
he would feel uncomfortable or pressured to be eating a
certain way or acting a certain way, and he actually
went through a period of weight loss, but to him
it wasn't disordered, and he has found that sense of
like education about food where it's helped him live a
(22:30):
fuller life because he's now eating in a way that
makes him feel good. But I remember doing that time.
I would make comments about his weight loss, about his food,
and for me, I was really trying to heal by
letting go of restriction, and whenever I would want to eat,
I almost would pressure him into eating with me all
the time. And sometimes it's helpful for a friend or
(22:53):
a partner to be eating with you, but when we
were together all the time, it definitely wasn't healthy for
me to be asking that at him. Well, I feel
like it also creates a codependency, And I'm not sure
if it's the same thing as what you're saying, but
I feel like that I've been in past relationships where
if my partner wasn't eating with me, then it was like, wait,
(23:13):
why am I eating? Should I not be hungry right now?
I was so untrusting of my own cues that I
needed somebody else to be eating too to feel okay,
even though that makes total no sense in you know,
the real universe. I wanted to ask you. You're clearly
with a partner that knows about your eating disorder, knows
what to look out for in disordered eating, and you're
(23:35):
a very open, honest conversation for those that are just
opening up with their partner, just explaining what disordered eating is.
More generally, how can a partner support an individual if
he or they notice disordered eatings coming up? So, maybe
more specifically for you is how does Blake support you
when he notices things that you may be doing or
(23:57):
or eating or not eating. Something that really really helped
me was communication, and my boyfriend would ask me questions
even if he didn't know if something was necessarily wrong,
but if he could tell I was having an off
day and was eating a lot more mindlessly or emotionally,
(24:18):
even if it wasn't necessarily bad that specific time, he
knew that that could be a trigger for me, and
so he would just ask me how I was feeling
about it, or if I said I didn't want to
go out to dinner anymore. When we had a dinner
date plan. He would ask me why and then ask
questions that digged a little bit deeper. And this was
helpful for me because it helped keep the dialogue open
(24:42):
whether I was struggling or not, even when I thought
I had healed. It kept us being open to talking
about it, and also helped me be aware and honest
about myself with where I was really at, because at
the end of the day, I had to do the
work to heal, but he could help support me, and
him asking those questions really made me talk out loud
(25:03):
about it and be honest about it. I think of
how some partners might be, and sometimes I am in
denial about other things in people's lives because I don't
want it to be true for them, so I can
brush it under the rug as well. So I think
that's amazing that Blake would step up. That would also
be what we would suggest to other partners. If you're
(25:25):
listening right now because you have someone going through something,
don't shy away. Don't form your own protective bubble of
denial because they're already in it and you, if you
truly care about them, you need to be the one
that asked the hard questions and helps dig them out
because it's not always the easiest way, but it's what
it's going to be best for everybody. I couldn't agree more.
(25:48):
And I think that as a listener, I know, we
get moms and wives and you know, all different types
of people that have many roles, and the more you
have tacked on in your life, I feel, the harder
it is to communicate because you have so many more
people that you're taking care of, and the easier it
is to I use this word a lot when I
see it in relationships enable the individual to continue down
(26:09):
a dangerous path because, like you said, Amy, oftentimes it's
easier than disrupting the feather. You think it's easier. I
think you think it's easier, but there's an explosion down
the line that you need to deal with. So I
think that's such an important, great thing that Blake and
you have formed early on as a foundation, and all
couples should really work to establish that really important foundation.
(26:32):
So just a few more moments, I just want to
ask you, what are some things that a partner should
never say to somebody who well, I just just say
in general, what are some things a partners should not
say to another partner that could be triggering whether you
had an eating disorder or not, because you could always
be on the brink of one anyway. For me, comments
about my body, at least before I finally like fully
(26:56):
accepted myself and stopped caring so much about looking as
certain way. But comments about my body were always a
bit harmful, even when they were well intentioned. Compliments about
my changing body or even just about specific parts of
my body meant bringing attention to them when those aren't
the important things about a human but they made me
(27:18):
feel like they were. Even though I don't necessarily think
compliments about apparents are always bad, especially when I was
in the process of rewiring my brain, they went against
the kind of mindset I was trying to develop. So
neither positive nor negative comments about the body, or even
neutral positives are helpful when trying to recover. I think
(27:38):
so because I think that they bring the attention back
to the body and make it feel like it's an
important part of who you are or an important part
of why our relationship is successful. I think in that open,
honest communication with your partner that has to be clearly defined,
because otherwise what eating disorder and disordered eating brain does
(27:59):
is in the absent of a compliment, we turn that
into we are not beautiful. Does that make sense to
either of you? So if my husband or boyfriend is
not saying that I look good, I think he thinks
I don't look good completely. I know that there are
times when I was still really struggling where I would
be the one who was constantly asking for that compliment.
(28:22):
I would ask and want to hear the compliment, and
so he thought he was doing the right thing by
giving them to me, And now he can compliment me
and tell me I'm beautiful. But it's more along the
lines of but you're always beautiful. You will always be
beautiful no matter how you change. Love that. I really
love that. So what is your role in not normalizing
(28:44):
diet culture messaging in the relationship with my clients? I
see it a lot like you have to have that
honest conversation with him to not comment on your body,
compliment it or not compliment it. I think that as
the individual who struggling, we need to set the tone
for what is acceptable. So what is your active role
in not bringing diet culture into the relationship. So before
(29:05):
Blake met me, he really was unaware of diet culture
and that was something that I really had to educate
him on and just bring awareness to what it is
and the fact that it's so present and pervasive in
mainstream society, and just talking about that really helped open
up his perspective. And I feel like because of that,
(29:28):
it's become a normal topic of discussion for us. So
we'll point out diet cultural language or marketing if we
hear it or see it, and we'll have a conversation
about it. And I don't expect him to be perfect
with never saying diet culture talk, and I'm not perfect
with it either, because it's sometimes it accidentally comes up
(29:50):
or comes out of my mouth. But I think being
aware of it and being intentional about it is really important.
All Right, Well, thank you so much for that helpful information,
Claire Amy, any last questions for Claire, I just appreciate you.
Any voice that's out there talking about accepting your body
is one that is welcome here and much appreciated, because
(30:11):
I wouldn't be where I am without finding certain voices
online that held me accountable or continue to hold me
accountable and offer me encouragement. So I just want to
say thank you for that. And you can find Claire
at Eats with Claire on Instagram, and I just want
to piggyback on what you said, Amy, And what's really
amazing about Claire is she is such a critical thinker
(30:31):
and you will see that reflected in her posts. Of course,
you will find a lot of the common themes that
you'll see with intuitive eating, but you can tell that
she is not just doing what everybody else is doing.
She is thinking so critically and oftentimes you'll say something
that I've never thought of and I'm like, yes, that's brilliant,
and it's just it takes a strong individual to do
(30:52):
that in a space where there's only one right way
to heal quote unquote. So thank you for your work, Claire.
Thank you. I really appreciate you as having these conversations
and talking about this and making other people feel less alone.
(31:13):
M
Maybe that's Lisa, and we're just two girls that want
to have a conversation with you. Dear sixteen year old
Andrea hey gorsgeous, Dear younger Lauren. Each episode is stories
from people I would deprive myself. Why myself obsessively? Because
I was eating healthy? I couldn't understand that I had
a problem with food. Losing my period scared me the most.
My story starts when I was around seven. That's when
(00:24):
I started to hate my body. Body image is like
our inner picture of our outer self healthy behaviors. I
had a much bigger role at all health than the
actual number on the scales. Internal dialogue can be so
powerful and often it's super negative and critical in a
way that we wouldn't talk to other people that we
care about. When you start to share your story, that
(00:44):
gives other people the courage to share theirs. I know
you would be proud now of how far you have
come in your relationship to food, exercise, and to yourself.
I felt freedom, I've gained relationships. I've found my true
sense of self worth. There's one thing I need you
to take away. You're going to be okay, happy Saturday.
(01:05):
We are about two weeks away from Christmas, which is crazy,
and we just hope whatever y'all are doing this holiday season,
that you're able to be around family and especially significant
others if you have them in your life that support
you and your journey and what you're going through, which
is what today's episode is about. But in full disclosure,
(01:26):
this is an intro to another intro then to the episode,
because Lisa and I recorded with Claire a little bit
ago and then did a different intro for it where
I shared an experience of you know, what it was
like to date me back in the day when I
had an eating disorder, and then Lisa said, oh my goodness,
I have this amazing course coming up that I want
(01:47):
people to know about. So we're just gonna tell you
all about that really quick and then we'll get into
the intro and then the episode. Yeah, So I just
didn't want anyone to miss the opportunity I'm hosting free
live training is all this week. So starting Monday all
through next Sunday, there's five opportunities to join me for
a live training on emotional eating and I called it
(02:08):
the Emotional Eating Action Plan, And I feel like Amy,
you probably agree, like emotional eating has a really bad rap.
First of all, there's no one who hasn't experienced emotional eating,
but it's kind of like this thing that we're always
trying to solve. And I have found with my clients
and myself that emotional eating isn't good and it's not bad.
(02:30):
And I think it's really important that we recognize, like
we do here, that there's a gray area. And when
we do approach emotional eating in a new way, like
I'm going to show you step by step, you're changing
your relationship not only to food, but to yourself, because
underneath the emotional eating are the emotions. And when we're
only targeting the eating, we're going to just find ourselves
(02:52):
back in that cycle over and over again. This has
been an emotional year for all of us, right like
it's been, it's been crazy, And I know that so
many people feel badly for eating emotionally. And I'm of
the thought that food can be comforting, food can be safe.
It's certainly safer and less dangerous or not dangerous at all,
(03:15):
compared to some substances that we could use during this time.
So I want to really open your mind to see
that food can be part of your healing emotionally, but
that you also have other tools and if you choose
to eat emotionally, this is kind of the real crux
of it. I wanted to be a different experience than
ever before. I want you to allow the food to
be the comfort rather than allowing the food to be
(03:36):
the band aid that then cause extra emotional turmoil and
mental pain. If that makes sense. Well, so where do
people go to find this? Because it already sounds amazing
to me and like it will be so beneficial to
a lot of people, similar to the bonus episode that
you put out before Thanksgiving to really walk people through
holiday meals and eating and the pressure of that. And
(03:58):
You're right, this has been an emotional year. So now
I love that you're putting this out to walk people
through emotional eating and I feel like I'm gonna benefit
from this as well. So I need to know the
details where to find it. So to find the webinar,
you can go to fork the Noise dot com forward
slash webinar. You'll be registered right away and you'll get
a workbook before the class reminders all that good stuff
(04:20):
and on the course, I'm also going to be introducing
and sharing more about my new course for the Noise,
Hunger and Fullness, which kicks off January third. Awesome, love it.
Thank you Lisa for all that you do to empower
us to have a healthy relationship with our bodies and
with food. I don't think i've ever I'm not saying
(04:41):
no one's ever done it, but not in my bubble,
in my world have I had anybody say hey, it's
okay to emotional eat and I want to help you
through that, And I want to help you understand because
I think you're right. Society has taught us that emotional
eating is a way to just escape our feel links
and then yes, use it as a band aid and
(05:02):
then beat ourselves up about it afterwards. And there are
articles online, let's say, how to cure emotional eating, like
the methods and demonizing language that we use around doing
something so pure. So just trying to help ourselves through
during a hard time really shows how we need to
like really shine light on the language that we use
around things and that we have been exposed to and
(05:25):
really rethink about those things. Yeah, and you're giving me
hope that while in others hope too, that there can
be a positive experience from the emotional eating. It doesn't
have to be a band aid left with shame and guilt.
It can actually be quite healing and you're left feeling
better than before. But we have to learn how to
(05:47):
do that because nobody has ever taught us that before.
So thank you for helping us do that. If you
leave with one thing, even just from this intro, and
you don't even come to the webinar, I just want
you to know that you're not alone. I feel like
when we're in those moments, we feel like we are
the only person that struggles with our emotions, the only
person that feels kind of like a zombie compelled to
go to the kitchen. It's a very out of body experience,
(06:09):
and it makes us feel like something's really wrong with us.
Why can't we just not do it? And So if
you don't even come to the webinar and you're here
now and you find yourself emotional eating, I hope that
you hear Amy and I say, we get it. We've
been there and you're just a human. Okay, let's jump
into our real intro before the great episode with Claire
Hey outweigh fam Amy and Lisa here with a little
(06:32):
intro before we get into today's episode, and Lisa is
the one that started saying outweigh fam and I just
got to say, I love that, and I'm going to
start doing it because we are a family trying to
educate ourselves, support ourselves, encourage ourselves to get through this
crazy world of disordered eating and eating disorders. And we've
got Claire coming on today and she's gonna be talking
(06:54):
about her relationship with her boyfriend and how her eating
disorder affected their relationship, and then how they were able
to work through it, and then where they are on
the other side of it now that he's in the
know and able to support her as best as possible.
Lisa and I are both married, and we both have
been in other relationships where eating disorders have gotten the way.
I literally just had a memory of myself in college
(07:18):
with my college boyfriend. I see now why he broke
up with me. I just had that. I don't need
to get into all the details that I hadn't thought
of this memory and forever. It's weird how when you're talking,
certain things just pop into your head. And I remember
he made me eggs and he used butter and then
used the yolk in all the eggs instead of like
(07:39):
mixing egg whites with egg and I freaked out. I
freaked out he made me eggs. I should have been like, Wow,
thanks for making me eggs, college boyfriend, You're amazing, But
I lost my mind. I couldn't eat it. I went
a little bit crazy. And yeah, we didn't last, so
(07:59):
I now see why. But he was someone that was
actually really special to me. But I saw how my
Even now that i'm thinking of him, I'm thinking of
another trip we went on where it was like a
little weekend with at someone's ranch. And we stopped somewhere
and someone was selling Girl Scout cookies and we bought
some and I ate the entire box of thin mints
(08:20):
on the drive and then I hated myself for eating
that entire box and then I acted like a total
be the rest of the day on the trip, and
I was a complete Debbi downer. Again, Guys, I have
no idea why he broke up with me. I'm just kidding.
But all this to say that if you're in a relationship,
whether it's a romantic one or you've got a sister, roommate,
(08:41):
a best friend, you live with your parents. Your behaviors
are going to affect that relationship for sure, there's no
way around it. What I by the way, if Landa
Lakes could see you, then I mean take a moment
the little butter shout out Landa Lakes, who I have
a partnership with, and honestly, as a partnership, I never
would have been able to take one in my disordered
eating days because I would have said, Butter, I can't
(09:04):
do that. And then now I would yes if my
husband or whomever, if that boyfriend was back in my
life and made me eggs with yolk and butter, I'd
be like, this tastes amazing, thank you. And yeah. So
when Claire will get into it, but she talks about
how she would lie and manipulate, she kind of had
a secret relationship with her eating disorder, and I thought
(09:25):
it was so interesting. You know, when we think about
relationships and lying, we think about cheating with another person.
But Claire kind of reminded me about a relationship that
I used to have an old boyfriend who didn't know
that I was struggling, because I didn't really know I
was struggling, but I remember so many things that I
did in secrecy behind his back because I didn't want
him to know. And it's so interesting when you think
(09:46):
about a relationship, whether again it's with a partner or
a sister or a friend, when you have a secret
and you don't want somebody to know about it, it
creates a big divide between the two of you and
you get closer with your eating disorder or your just
disordered eating them that person. So I just think it's
really important to think about honesty in relationships when it
(10:07):
comes to food and an individual and who you're choosing
or which you're choosing. I know eating disorder isn't a person,
but it becomes you're choosing the eating disorder over a
valuable relationship in your life. And this episode with Claire's
actually came because one of you deemed me asking how
can my partner support me? He wants to, but I
don't know what to tell him to do. So just
(10:28):
a reminder that we take your request very seriously and
you could email us at any time with what you
think would be helpful. And again, if you need to
know our email, it is hello at Outweigh podcast dot
com and we absolutely love hearing from you, so please
send us notes and we hope you enjoy today's episode.
Here go, Welcome back to another episode of Outweigh. Today
(10:51):
we're joined by our friend Claire. She's at Eats with
Claire on Instagram and she is an eating disorder recovery
account turned amazing human being that just wants everybody to
learn how to accept themselves. So we brought Claire on
because we got a question from one of you asking
us about how to let our partners in during recovery.
(11:12):
The question said, I've been in a relationship for one
and a half years and recently opened up about disordered
eating and the thoughts and habits surrounding it to my boyfriend.
He's very supportive, but he struggles to understand and makes
comments about how I'm ridiculous or crazy for even thinking that.
I asked him to listen to Outweigh and that has helped,
but he's always asking for what more he can do.
I can see how upset it makes him when I'm
(11:34):
skipping dessert or working out extra so that we can
have a date night, which in turn only makes me
feel worse. Could you cover this topic? So that was
the request, and it's such a good question and Claire,
I followed you for a long time and watching you
with your partner, I thought you could kind of share
some information on your eating disorder and how your partner
has been a helpful tool. Yeah. I definitely relate to
(11:58):
a lot of what that girl said it and definitely
found that my disordered eating did cause some issues to rise,
but that a partner can help support you do the
work to help heal, and that the disordered eating doesn't
have to get in the way of your relationship and
it can actually help bring you together and build a
(12:18):
deeper sense of trust. And I feel like there's a
way to do that. How did you open up to
your partner about your relationship to food or body image
and did he understand immediately? Yeah. Before Blake and I
started a romantic relationship, we were acquaintances and then friends.
This was my freshman year of college, so we were
all in dorm rooms together and when we first met,
(12:39):
he actually told me now that his first memory of
me before we were friends was me weighing out eminem's
on a food scale, sitting in like the dorm room lobby,
just like weighing them out, And it was so normalized
that I wasn't trying to hide it, and he didn't
realize it was an issue for me. And I've struggled
with binging and a lack of control around food. And
(13:02):
when we became friends, we would start hanging out together
and we would eat snacks and I would tear through
family sized bags of chips and like giant boxes of cereals.
But I never was open about how it was really
feeling around the food, so I kind of played it
off as just like being that girl who ate a lot.
But once we actually started dating, I started opening up
(13:23):
about how I was feeling and how much guilt I
felt when I would eat certain foods or would eat
certain amounts, and I was clearly very scared of weight gain.
I always talked about my weight how and I would
always ask about how I looked went to him, it
didn't matter, but Blake understood that the feelings I feel
about myself and about food were very real. But I
(13:45):
don't think he fully understood my situation and how it
wasn't something that I could simply just stop doing or
stop thinking. Was there a moment you went to him
and kind of had us sit down or was it
just more organic it was more organic. I talked to
him about my past struggles with restriction, but at this point,
(14:05):
when I was struggling with binging, I didn't recognize it
as a disorder. I viewed it as my own lack
of ability to control myself around food, and so it
was kind of hard for us to navigate that at
the time because I was telling him, like, I just
need to learn to control my food better, and he
didn't have that knowledge yet to recognize that it was
(14:27):
more than just that. How did you yourself realize that
binging was a disorder and a thing? Because I too
felt as though I had nowhere to turn because nobody
could relate and I didn't know what I was doing.
I wasn't in control, but nobody was talking about it,
so I didn't realize that it was actually a thing.
I think I always knew that it wasn't just about
(14:51):
the lack of control, but it wasn't just about trying
to control the food, but it was it was about
so much more. And I think I came to recognize
that because I eventually got so tired of the constant
cycle of restricting and binging, and I wasn't able to
be present in my life. I was binging three or
(15:11):
four or five times a week, and if I wasn't binging,
I was restricting and my whole mind, my whole life,
was consumed by thoughts about numbers and about food and
my body. And eventually I was like, I really want
to heal this, and I would look up ways on Google,
like how to stop binging, and some of them were like, oh,
(15:31):
you just need to control your food better. But then
I discovered some people talking about how that wasn't the answer. Well,
I feel like that could be an entire episode on
its own, and we should definitely have you back on
to talk about the different methods of recovery. So Blake
maybe didn't understand that the way that you were controlling
your food was an issue. But with intimacy, I imagined
(15:55):
that that could have been a problem, you know, somebody
touching your body was there were there issues with intimacy
that we're showing up, maybe more visibly than the food
being a control. It definitely got in the way when
I didn't want to take part in it, sometimes for
very extended periods of time, and I would always in
fear of how my partner viewed my body. I feel
(16:17):
like we get told that sexy is a look, or
that we get told that confidence is sexy, but confidence
comes from looking a certain way. So it was really
hard for me to fight that messaging that I feel
like is everywhere, and it took a lot of work
and time to really understand that we don't have to
look a certain way to feel sexy or confident, and
(16:37):
that intimacy is about so much more than just that.
I remember feeling more self conscious about my body while
having a partner than I did even before that, because
I knew that he would notice all the day to
day changes, would bloat and whatnot, not that he really
cared about that, and that was something that I had
to really learn to believe later on. But it definitely
(17:00):
got in the way. When we're binging and restricting, we
often are bloated because we're not eating you know, normal
quantities of food, and our bodies are are compensating in
funny ways, so it's not even just in our heads.
Sometimes it's very real and painful, even which can of
course be you know, when something is painful, we're certainly
not feeling sexy. So when I talked about intimacy, there,
(17:22):
you know, I think all of our minds went to
intimacy in the bedroom. But intimacy is also just moments
of you know, odd being on the couch and watching
TV or going out on a date night or whatever
it is, where you're just really present with another being.
So I actually we went really like we zoomed in there.
I just want to zoom out for a moment and
(17:42):
ask if Blake felt like something was missing intimacy wise
in your relationship, not necessarily related to you know, sexual stuff. Yeah. Completely,
I know that there were multiple times where he would
talk to me and say like, I feel like you
don't want to be with me. And it wasn't that,
but it was that I wasn't fully present. I wasn't
(18:05):
showing him love and intimate ways, not just physical ways.
But it was like I wasn't really trying to connect
because my mind was somewhere else. I can definitely relate, Amy,
can you, oh for sure? And so how have you
seen your relationship with Blake before that your realization and
your talk and support as you'll have navigated through it.
To describe the difference now, Just to offer hope and
(18:28):
encouragement for anybody else that's in it that there is
another side. I feel like talking through it all with
him and working through it together really helped bring us closer.
We are very open with communication. We have such a
deep sense of trust in all aspects because we had
to work through it together. I remember during that process
(18:49):
of trying to figure out how I could get better
with it, he would just ask a lot of questions
of like what can I do and what can he do? Also?
And we really had to talk through what we both
wanted from each other and understand that sometimes maybe I
wouldn't be able to do something, but if I was
trying to do it, but that was good for both
(19:11):
of us. I love that. So what are some some
red flags that someone could look out for? Because, I mean,
looking back on my past relationships before Evan, I would
just prioritize everything over a relationship and I would have
never said that I was doing that and that was
not right. So what are some red flags that you're
disordered eating or eating disorder are getting between you and
(19:34):
your relationship with another person? So from an individual point
of view, what can we look out for? So, like
you just said, things like choosing to engage in behaviors
that might be fueling you're disordered eating over things that
will help your relationship. Those are definitely red flags. The
things that immediately came to mind for me were things
(19:55):
like lying, manipulation, projection, trust, and honesty are things that
are really important fundamentals to a healthy relationship in my opinion.
But in the past, there were times I would choose
holding on too and hiding my disordered behaviors over being
honest and open with my partner. There were times when
I lied about what I ate, what I did, how
(20:18):
I was feeling, and how I was doing, and when
I'd get confronted about it, I was so scared that
that would mean having to give up my disordered eating
that I would essentially guess like my partner make them
feel bad for assuming that of me. I think projection
is important. Some people may not even be aware that
they're doing that, but I know that I did that
(20:38):
as well. So can you can you speak to projection? Yeah?
I remember times when Blake was genuinely trying to help
me or just trying to understand what was going on,
and whenever he'd ask anything, I would get so angry.
And I look back, and it's not that I was
angry at him, but I was angry that I might
(21:00):
get my disordered eating taken away from me, and so
I would project that onto him and get angry at
him when he wasn't doing anything necessarily wrong. And there
are other times where I'd project in a different way
and I'd make comments about his food that was also
really unhealthy because he never struggled with disordered eating, but
(21:21):
it almost made him feel like he should care more
about it. Wow, that makes so much sense. That was
what I was I was curious to see if that
type of projection came out, because I certainly did that
not only to my husband, but it happens in other
relationships too. So if you're listening right now and you
don't have a significant other, you may have a sister
(21:42):
or best friend or roommate or a mom and a dad.
I did it to everyone around me, so to make
other people feel uncomfortable about what they're eating, especially when
they don't have what you're struggling with, and then maybe
you're part of them, maybe even developing. Did he ever
become self conscious about his food or try to hide
things from you to avoid that confrontation. Yeah, he never
(22:06):
tried to hide things. But I think there were times
he would feel uncomfortable or pressured to be eating a
certain way or acting a certain way, and he actually
went through a period of weight loss, but to him
it wasn't disordered, and he has found that sense of
like education about food where it's helped him live a
(22:30):
fuller life because he's now eating in a way that
makes him feel good. But I remember doing that time.
I would make comments about his weight loss, about his food,
and for me, I was really trying to heal by
letting go of restriction, and whenever I would want to eat,
I almost would pressure him into eating with me all
the time. And sometimes it's helpful for a friend or
(22:53):
a partner to be eating with you, but when we
were together all the time, it definitely wasn't healthy for
me to be asking that at him. Well, I feel
like it also creates a codependency, And I'm not sure
if it's the same thing as what you're saying, but
I feel like that I've been in past relationships where
if my partner wasn't eating with me, then it was like, wait,
(23:13):
why am I eating? Should I not be hungry right now?
I was so untrusting of my own cues that I
needed somebody else to be eating too to feel okay,
even though that makes total no sense in you know,
the real universe. I wanted to ask you. You're clearly
with a partner that knows about your eating disorder, knows
what to look out for in disordered eating, and you're
(23:35):
a very open, honest conversation for those that are just
opening up with their partner, just explaining what disordered eating is.
More generally, how can a partner support an individual if
he or they notice disordered eatings coming up? So, maybe
more specifically for you is how does Blake support you
when he notices things that you may be doing or
(23:57):
or eating or not eating. Something that really really helped
me was communication, and my boyfriend would ask me questions
even if he didn't know if something was necessarily wrong,
but if he could tell I was having an off
day and was eating a lot more mindlessly or emotionally,
(24:18):
even if it wasn't necessarily bad that specific time, he
knew that that could be a trigger for me, and
so he would just ask me how I was feeling
about it, or if I said I didn't want to
go out to dinner anymore. When we had a dinner
date plan. He would ask me why and then ask
questions that digged a little bit deeper. And this was
helpful for me because it helped keep the dialogue open
(24:42):
whether I was struggling or not, even when I thought
I had healed. It kept us being open to talking
about it, and also helped me be aware and honest
about myself with where I was really at, because at
the end of the day, I had to do the
work to heal, but he could help support me, and
him asking those questions really made me talk out loud
(25:03):
about it and be honest about it. I think of
how some partners might be, and sometimes I am in
denial about other things in people's lives because I don't
want it to be true for them, so I can
brush it under the rug as well. So I think
that's amazing that Blake would step up. That would also
be what we would suggest to other partners. If you're
(25:25):
listening right now because you have someone going through something,
don't shy away. Don't form your own protective bubble of
denial because they're already in it and you, if you
truly care about them, you need to be the one
that asked the hard questions and helps dig them out
because it's not always the easiest way, but it's what
it's going to be best for everybody. I couldn't agree more.
(25:48):
And I think that as a listener, I know, we
get moms and wives and you know, all different types
of people that have many roles, and the more you
have tacked on in your life, I feel, the harder
it is to communicate because you have so many more
people that you're taking care of, and the easier it
is to I use this word a lot when I
see it in relationships enable the individual to continue down
(26:09):
a dangerous path because, like you said, Amy, oftentimes it's
easier than disrupting the feather. You think it's easier. I
think you think it's easier, but there's an explosion down
the line that you need to deal with. So I
think that's such an important, great thing that Blake and
you have formed early on as a foundation, and all
couples should really work to establish that really important foundation.
(26:32):
So just a few more moments, I just want to
ask you, what are some things that a partner should
never say to somebody who well, I just just say
in general, what are some things a partners should not
say to another partner that could be triggering whether you
had an eating disorder or not, because you could always
be on the brink of one anyway. For me, comments
about my body, at least before I finally like fully
(26:56):
accepted myself and stopped caring so much about looking as
certain way. But comments about my body were always a
bit harmful, even when they were well intentioned. Compliments about
my changing body or even just about specific parts of
my body meant bringing attention to them when those aren't
the important things about a human but they made me
(27:18):
feel like they were. Even though I don't necessarily think
compliments about apparents are always bad, especially when I was
in the process of rewiring my brain, they went against
the kind of mindset I was trying to develop. So
neither positive nor negative comments about the body, or even
neutral positives are helpful when trying to recover. I think
(27:38):
so because I think that they bring the attention back
to the body and make it feel like it's an
important part of who you are or an important part
of why our relationship is successful. I think in that open,
honest communication with your partner that has to be clearly defined,
because otherwise what eating disorder and disordered eating brain does
(27:59):
is in the absent of a compliment, we turn that
into we are not beautiful. Does that make sense to
either of you? So if my husband or boyfriend is
not saying that I look good, I think he thinks
I don't look good completely. I know that there are
times when I was still really struggling where I would
be the one who was constantly asking for that compliment.
(28:22):
I would ask and want to hear the compliment, and
so he thought he was doing the right thing by
giving them to me, And now he can compliment me
and tell me I'm beautiful. But it's more along the
lines of but you're always beautiful. You will always be
beautiful no matter how you change. Love that. I really
love that. So what is your role in not normalizing
(28:44):
diet culture messaging in the relationship with my clients? I
see it a lot like you have to have that
honest conversation with him to not comment on your body,
compliment it or not compliment it. I think that as
the individual who struggling, we need to set the tone
for what is acceptable. So what is your active role
in not bringing diet culture into the relationship. So before
(29:05):
Blake met me, he really was unaware of diet culture
and that was something that I really had to educate
him on and just bring awareness to what it is
and the fact that it's so present and pervasive in
mainstream society, and just talking about that really helped open
up his perspective. And I feel like because of that,
(29:28):
it's become a normal topic of discussion for us. So
we'll point out diet cultural language or marketing if we
hear it or see it, and we'll have a conversation
about it. And I don't expect him to be perfect
with never saying diet culture talk, and I'm not perfect
with it either, because it's sometimes it accidentally comes up
(29:50):
or comes out of my mouth. But I think being
aware of it and being intentional about it is really important.
All Right, Well, thank you so much for that helpful information,
Claire Amy, any last questions for Claire, I just appreciate you.
Any voice that's out there talking about accepting your body
is one that is welcome here and much appreciated, because
(30:11):
I wouldn't be where I am without finding certain voices
online that held me accountable or continue to hold me
accountable and offer me encouragement. So I just want to
say thank you for that. And you can find Claire
at Eats with Claire on Instagram, and I just want
to piggyback on what you said, Amy, And what's really
amazing about Claire is she is such a critical thinker
(30:31):
and you will see that reflected in her posts. Of course,
you will find a lot of the common themes that
you'll see with intuitive eating, but you can tell that
she is not just doing what everybody else is doing.
She is thinking so critically and oftentimes you'll say something
that I've never thought of and I'm like, yes, that's brilliant,
and it's just it takes a strong individual to do
(30:52):
that in a space where there's only one right way
to heal quote unquote. So thank you for your work, Claire.
Thank you. I really appreciate you as having these conversations
and talking about this and making other people feel less alone.
(31:13):
M
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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