April 6, 2023 • 37 mins
We all want to declutter and organize our lives, but we can't do that without first talking about our buying and acquiring habits. Why do we shop and overbuy? What are clutter magnets? Where do we start when it comes to getting rid of things? Our expert guest, Tracy McCubbin, answers all of these questions and more. Absolutely loved chatting with Tracy and especially enjoyed doing '4 Things Gratitude' with her! The 4 things she's thankful for are so good (i.e. she impromptu shared some dating tips after revealing that she just got married for the first time in her 50s to a man she met on Bumble!!)
ABOUT TRACY:
Tracy McCubbin is an entrepreneur, CEO, and the author of Making Space, Clutter Free: The Last Book On Decluttering You'll Ever Need (June 4th, 2019) and the newly launched book, Make Space for Happiness: How to Stop Attracting Clutter and Start Magnetizing the Life You Want (Sourcebooks, October 4th, 2022). She has always referred to herself as "Obsessive Compulsive Delightful," but who knew she could turn that trait into a booming business? While working for a prominent television director in Los Angeles, Tracy discovered she could see through any mess and clearly envision a clutter-free space. Coupled with keen time-management and organizational skills, Tracy soon found more and more people were asking her for help. Before she knew it, dClutterfly was born.
Over fifteen years and thousands of clients later, dClutterfly is currently Los Angeles' premier organizing and decluttering company. Tracy has been interviewed for several decluttering segments, including Fox 5 Washington DC and ABC7 Los Angeles, KTLA Morning News, KCAL9 CBS Los Angeles, and Good Day Sacramento. She and her company have also been featured in top-tier publications, including Real Simple, House Beautiful, Goop, Refinery 29 and Woman's Day.
When not decluttering, she is the proud Co-Executive Director of OneKid OneWorld, a non-profit building strong educational foundations for children in impoverished communities throughout Kenya and Central America. www.onekidoneworld.org
Tracy lives in Los Angeles and knows where her keys are.
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Joy Okay, cass up road, little food for yourself life ain't. Oh,
it's pretty much. It's pretty beautiful than beautiful. Laugh. A
little mouth tightening up said he you're kicking with four
(00:32):
Amy Brown, Happy Thursday. Four things Amy here. And my
guest today is an amazing woman. She's an entrepreneur, she's CEO,
and she's going to help us not only declutter our homes,
but also our minds. Yes, Tracy mccovin. She's coming to
us from LA. I'm in Nashville, and Tracy, I just
(00:52):
want to start with decluttering and organizing. I know that
you say that we can't really talk about that unless
we talk about our buying and our acquired habits first. Yeah,
my second book Makespace for Happiness. You know, I've been
a professional declutter for seventeen years now. I've I don't
know thousand, but five thousand homes, some crazy amount. And
(01:13):
I started, especially in the pandemic. I just started to notice,
like people were calling me and they're like, remember all
that stuff we declutter And I bought it again. And
I'm driving through LA and I'm seeing the like giant,
like leaning towers of packages on everybody and I'm like,
what is what is with the shopping? Like again, like
you said, we can't talk about decluttering if we're not
(01:34):
talking about what we're bringing in. Because people I was
looking at me, They're like, I don't know how this
stuff got in my house, and I'm like, well, you
brought it in. You are the one who purchased it
and brought it in. So I did a deep dive
on the science of shopping, like what we get from
shopping this dopamine hit and how it's not lasting, and
then what's really missing inside of us that we think
(01:57):
shopping is gonna fulfill? So what is it? What is missing?
Is it different for everybody. The way that I describe it,
I call these clutter magnets. So the way that I
see it when I work with clients and in myself,
it's almost like there's this little jigsaw puzzle piece of
ourself that we think is missing. So it's self confidence
or it's big love, or it's true connection, and so
(02:19):
we think we have this part of us missing and
we shop, shop, shop to try and fill it. Like
self confidence is a great one. You know, we all
get those anti aging ads and the creams and this
and you're like, oh, just this dress will fix me,
or this pair of shoes, or if I find the
perfect purse, and then you buy and you buy and
you buy, and it doesn't work because self confidence doesn't
come from the outside. So what I wanted to look
(02:40):
at is what were these seven clutter magnets. What are
these things that we're trying to fix by shopping, Why
are they not working? And how can we get that
from somewhere else? And look full disclosure, I'm not telling
people to not shop. I love a cute purse, I
love a cute pair of shoes, but if you're using
it to try and fix something, it's not going to work.
(03:02):
So not only do you help people declutter, but your
sort of therapy too. Yeah. So I grew up the
child of a hoarder, so I have watched my parents
struggle his whole life with his relationship to stuff and
really get in the way of other relationships. So I
really early on was like, Oh, our attachment to stuff
(03:23):
isn't about the stuff. It's about grief, it's about loss,
it's about love, it's about all these other things. And
when I keyed into that and was able to put
it into words, is when my business just took off.
Like I you know, I have an ability. It's almost
like I can read teals or something. I can go
and look at somebody's clutter and be like, oh, you're
really unhappy in your job, aren't you? Or you know,
(03:45):
did you just lose a parent? Like it shows up
in our stuff. So it's about getting a great relationship
with our stuff so that we can get what we
need from somewhere else. When I meet people, they are
in such a place of shame, and it's like, nope,
we're here now. How you made the first step. You
made a phone call, you reached out to me. That's positive.
So let's let's jump up from there. Let's figure out
(04:08):
what's not working for you, why it's not working, and
get it working. What's the first place that someone should start, Like,
where's the first place to begin? Because that for me,
that's the most overwhelming thing, is like, oh, I'm just
going to keep putting this off because I don't even
know where to begin. Absolutely, So the first step, and
this is I always joke, this is my Woo Woo
(04:28):
California first step. But the first step is I want
I always help people to focus on why do they
want to get organized? What do they hope to gain
out of it? Is it like as simple as I
want to get rid of my storage unit and I'm
paying two hundred dollars a month for or I want
to park my car my garage, or we want to
have a baby and the guest room that we want
(04:48):
to turn into a nursery is completely full. What's your why?
Because that's going to keep you motivated, and your why,
I can't be beating yourself up. It can't be I'm
a bad housekeeper, or I'm lazy. That's not a why
that so I don't even know what that. That's garbage.
We let that go. So you start with the why
and then start small. You know, I started doing these
five minute decluttering challenges on Instagram and TikTok. I was like,
(05:11):
let me just see how this. You know, it's how
I kind of operate in my own house. US see
an area that gets out of control. They just blew up,
Like people are like I can do five minutes, I
can do ten minutes. I can tackle coffee munths, I
can tackle you know, workout pants. And I broke it
down into really small, bite sized categories and people DM
me all the time. They're like, I did the challenges,
(05:32):
I've now done my whole house. So you know, I
think people need to be realistic about how much time
it takes and how much time they have and how
much drive they have, and if you break it up
into small chunks, it's gonna get done. It's sort of
like how do you eat an elephant one bite at
a time? That's right, and yeah, I could see how
that makes it less overwhelming. My sister is a mom
(05:56):
of four and she does ten minute PU sessions. She
has ever since they were little and now they're twelve
to twenty years old. But she'd set a timer and
for ten minutes, everybody just pitched in and did as
much as they could in ten minutes, and then it
sort of turns into a game of like how much
can I get done in these ten minutes? So that's
(06:17):
something I adopted from her that I'll do with myself.
So it makes sense that your five minute challenges would work.
And then yeah, if you commit to it for a
few weeks, you'd be surprised. You might get so much
done around your house. And the other thing that I
tell people too, is that savor your success. Like you'll
do a junk drawer or you'll do your closet and
you'll go, this feels so good, Like I like, this
(06:40):
is successful. You know I can go in and get
dressed in the morning without freaking outut or feeling bad
about myself. You know that all of a sudden, you're like, oh,
this works. Let me apply this to another part of
my house. Because we're building on making your house work
for you, making your house easier to be in. We're
all overwhelmed, right, We're all so busy. There's so many
hours in the day, and you know, we're working full
(07:03):
time and we're raising our kids and we're doing all
these things. And it's like, if you can make your
house run smoother, you're literally buying yourself time back. You
mentioned coffee mugs a second ago. How many are we
supposed to have? Because I feel like coffee mugs and
water bottles just somehow start to collect and they're overflowing.
(07:25):
I know, well, those funny coffee mugs was the one
that blew up because people are like, don't take mine
coffee bugs. People are so attached to their coffee mugs.
I mean, we you know, we have a house of
three people and we have eight and it works fine.
You know, we have to do with little dishes every
day anyway because of our life, and it's plenty of
coffee mugs, you know, so I sort of say two
(07:46):
per person in the house and two water bottles per person.
But water bottles, I swear. I mean, I don't know
if they like mate in the middle of the night,
because you will walk away and then you come back
the next day and you're like, where did all these
water bottles come from? Like it's crazy. Yeah, well, I
think of some mugs as being sentimental, and then that
makes me think of other sentimental things in your house.
(08:07):
How do you decide when to let something go? You know,
it's such a great question, and I always sort of
start with this statement, if everything is special, nothing is special.
So if you have a house full of all these
sentimental items and all you know, every nook and cranny
and every trophy participation award from your kids, it starts
(08:32):
to lose its meaning because it's just so much of it.
So when you go through, when you look at it,
you're like, oh, right, this trophy doesn't have their name
on it. It was a participation award, This isn't actually special,
And so when you can really do a dive of
it and actually declutter it, the things that mean something
to you stand out right. But if you have a
(08:55):
household furniture you don't like because it was your grandma's
and your grandpa's and your parents and the garage is
stuffed full, it starts to become a burden, and then
you're almost no longer respecting the person's memory or the
history behind it. If you resent it so much, it
doesn't serve you anymore. What about clothes? Is there a
(09:16):
timeline on how long we should hold on to something?
Asking for a friend, Amy, Yeah, and it's not. It's
not so much about the size thing, although that might
be something people need to address of I have a
whole podcast that's dedicated to body image and disordered eating
called out Way. And one of the things that a
lot of experts say is, Okay, I don't know where
you want to put those other clothes, but let's go
(09:37):
ahead and buy clothes that fit right now, so that
you can feel confident and cute and look good instead
of trying to just squeeze into something else. So that's
a whole other conversation of if you need to let something,
you know, it's super applicable. I mean, you know, I'm
fifty eight. I am the same weight that I was.
(09:57):
I mean, I've been the same way I don't know,
for twenty five years or something. But things fit me different.
Gravity hits like I can't fit into things that I
used to be able to fit into, and I can
fit into different things. And so I think that if
you are keeping all these clothes you can't fit into,
it's just this reminder of like who you used to be.
(10:18):
You know that I call that being stuck in the past,
that you're looking backwards and not forward. And your closet
should absolutely be full of clothes that you wear and
you feel really good in. And I'm really lucky. I
have two nieces, so I save all my special things
for them. You know, it's just great to pass it along.
But you know, and sometimes I'll do like I just
(10:40):
did it for spring. I just took a bunch of
clothes that were i don't know, like twenty pieces that
were really nice and they still fit, but I'm like
a little sick of them. And I was like, uh,
and I was like, you know, let me just move
them into the guest room closet so I don't see
them for a while, and then all of a sudden,
my closet was full of things that I loved and
I haven't even gone in there and pulled something out
(11:01):
of it. So you know, your closet should be full
of things that you wear and that you feel good in.
A great thing to like just to look at something.
If you saw an article of clothing you own in
the store today, would you buy it again? That's such
a great way because sometimes you look at and you're like,
oh no, I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't buy that again.
You're like, then, why are you hanging on to it?
So many people call me to work in their homes,
(11:24):
and one of the things that they say is I
walk into my closet in the morning and I burst
into tears, like I hate everything in it. I don't
fit in half of it. I just I keep it
as like goal weight, you know, And it's just like, oh,
that's not how I want you to start your day,
you know. I want you to be able to go
in your closet and put anything on and feel fantastic
in it, even if it's just not just but you know,
(11:45):
a sweatshirt and sweatpants. Like I just worked with this
woman whose husband had passed away and she was getting
ready to start dating again, and she'd gone through her
grief and you know, I have been really hard, but
I think he'd been gone about five years now, and
we went through her closet and I was like, would
you wear this on a date? And she's like, oh,
(12:06):
absolutely not, and I'm like out. It goes like, celebrate
your life. Let's have a closet full of things that
if somebody called you and said let's go grab a
cup of coffee, you could go in there, throw something
on and feel fantastic. So it can. It's about not
keeping the things that beat you up, but the things
that lift you up. Right now, what I'm hearing is
it's better for me to have less things in my closet,
(12:28):
but no matter what I grab, I'm gonna feel good
in it than have only a fourth of it that
I feel good and in three fourths, like my closet
may look full, but the other stuff is just oh,
it's not making me feel good. Absolutely, if if everything
in your closet you feel good in and you want
to wear, You're going to be excited. And by the way,
here's a big like new slash people. No one notices
(12:51):
if you repeat clothes. No one's gonna be like Amy
wore that three weeks ago. Like, we have this idea
that we are supposed to wear something new all the time,
and if you feel so good in something, you're going
to radiate. And that's what people are going to notice, right,
that's what people are going to see. So absolutely less
is more, better quality things that fit you. You know,
we all know. Go look at your hangars. If you've
(13:13):
got sweaters or shirts that have dust on the shoulders,
I mean, do you have but worn it in a
long time? Okay, that's me. I had that having the
other day with a pair of pants, Like I took
the pants out and they were black pants and then
there was this dust line where they were hanging on
the hangar. So okay, I'm going to go back to
that quote you said, because I really like it. If
everything is special, nothing is special. So start to really
(13:36):
go through and take inventory of things in your home,
and let's define what special really means. And less is more,
which also I mean I'm looking at the title your
book behind you too, make space for happiness. That's literally
what we're speaking to when it comes to the closet
is cleaning that stuff out, getting rid of it, making
space so that you walk into your closet and you're
actually happy and not bursting into tears. I work a
(14:00):
lot of people too who make big changes in their
diet or you know, or get on a health click,
and I walk into a clutter. I mean, first of all,
there is a study. I believe they did it at Harvard.
I can't I might not get this right. But they
put people in a cluttered kitchen and they offered them
a snack. They offered them a carrot and a cookie,
and the majority of the people, the participants in the
(14:21):
cluttered kitchen took the cookie as a snack. They repeated
this same experiment poot people in an uncluttered kitchen, and
people took the carrot. You know, if you're trying to
cook more and meal prep and you know, not ordering
and postmates so much that if your kitchen cluttered, you're
not gonna want to cook in it. You're just not
gonna You're gonna be like, oh, I'll just go through
the Starbucks drive through again. And you know, spend the
(14:43):
money and get all the calories and you know, but
if your kitchen is organized and you know where everything is,
it leads you to cooking more. Okay, after a quick
sponsor break, since they are how this podcast is made possible,
I want to talk about your OCD, which you have
nicknamed obsessive compulsive delightful, because well, I think it's just
going to be such an encouragement to people. All right, Tracy,
(15:17):
explain obsessive compulsive delightful. I do have OCD, and mine
shows up a little bit more intrusive thoughts than it
does repeated behaviors. But I found a way to take
my I don't even like to call it a disorder
and turn it into my work, you know, to get
things in order and to understand, like when I did
(15:38):
a deep dive and I understood, oh this is what
this is. It's OCD, Okay, But how can I take
some of the parts of it and make it productive
in my life? So I like to claim ownership of
my OCD, and you know, and call it delightful. I
love that The co host of The Fifth Thing, which
is a bonus episode to this podcast that comes out
(15:59):
on Tuesdays. She's my friend and her name's Katafada. She's
also a licensed therapist and we both have ADHD diagnosed,
and she's open, she talks about it. I never medicated
until recently, but it came up on a recent talk
that it's our superpower and instead of feeling shame behind
(16:19):
it or oh why do we have to deal with this? Okay,
what about this makes us to think in a different
way than other people, This is your superpower? Absolutely that.
I think that's the thing. When we're sort of non neurotypical,
to use the phrase, it's like, okay, but how can
I do that? How can I do something with this?
You know, it's also how I look at growing up
(16:40):
the child of a hoarder like it was very difficult.
It was a very, very very difficult childhood. He's still
dealing with it. It's very heartbreaking. But it also gave
me this empathy that most people in this business don't have. So,
you know, in a way, I was able to take
my greatest wound and turn it into something that I
can help people with. And you know, on the days
(17:02):
it's hard and I wanted, you know, I'm frustrated with
him I also remember that I'm going to be able
to help out their people. I actually have a personal
story that i'd like to share with you that just
went down in my house with my daughter. She wanted
to go over to her friend's house to spend the night,
but her room has been out of control, and so
I tried to use that as a little bit of,
(17:24):
you know, incentive to get her to do her room
by saying, Okay, you can go over to your friend's house,
but we've got to tackle your room and I'll join you.
I'll be by your side, but we've got to get
this under control. And I was trying to explain to
her that, you know, she would just feel better if
she had her stuff put away. And she's not a
messy person. She just has like piles of stuff all
(17:46):
around the room and she doesn't want to hang them up,
and I don't know what's going on with that. I
want her to, you know, you have control over her
own room. But at the same time, I feel like
I have a responsibility to teach her to put things away.
You know, one of the things I think when dealing
with kids and preteens and teens is that when you
start to talk to them about cleaning their room. They
(18:08):
kind of go on the defense, right, like they've like,
you've got to clean your room and they've never been
explained why. So to kind of understand the way I
describe clutter is I describe clutter as a constant to
do list. So if you've got piles around your room,
you're like, are those closed dirty or are they clean?
Kind of wear them again? Where am I going to
find them? You sort of put yourself in asking yourself
(18:30):
all these questions about your stuff. And so when you're
a kid and you know your prefrontal cortex is fusing
and your executive functioning, you just see like, oh, I
have to clean my room because my mom tells me too,
instead of no, By having a room clean, having things
put away, the outcome is that you know where to
(18:50):
find things and that they're clean when you go to
look at them. So it's helping kids understand that a
clean room helps you function better as opposed to just
like it looks nice. It's like it looks nice because
we feel less stressed. Right, It's like, oh that I
know exactly where to find things, I know exactly where
to get it, and I have the story I was
(19:10):
telling about I helped his family that had two little
boys in their playroom was a disaster, like a like
Lego had thrown up in there. It was awful. So
we went in the boys were at school. We did
the whole playroom. We got a piece of furniture to
organize everything, and you know bins, and it was like
the dinosaurs were in one bin and the stuffies were
in another, and all the army guys were in another.
(19:33):
And then came up from school and the first thing
they like stopped in their tracks and their eyes got
so big and they're like, we can see our things,
and then little one goes, my guys, my guys. I
missed my guys. And so it was this led to
this conversation about putting things in a place where you
know where to find them means that when you want
(19:53):
to play with them again, you can find them. And
I think with kids, having them understand that being organize
is setting them up for success. Right, That's my whole goal.
My whole goal everything with my clients, with the books
I've written everything as I want people to understand that
their home is a tool, and it's a tool to
(20:13):
support them to rest them, to replenish them, to refresh them,
to feed them. And if your home is cluttered, it's
not supporting you in the way, it's taking away from you.
So for teens and kids, it's like getting them to
understand in that little piece of their room. Look. The
most boring conversation between parents and kids as mom, where's
my where's my? Where's so being able to say, like, look,
(20:36):
if you hang your backpack up in the same place
every day, you know where to find it, and it
fosters independence in them. So I think for parents, it's understanding,
like you said, finding the words to explain why this works,
helping them implement it, and seeing the success. Yeah, I've
heard from multiple parenting experts and well quickly I'll say this.
(20:57):
I know we're talking about a child's but I think
if you're an adult listening right now, and you're you're
frantically always running around looking for things, and trust me,
that's been me. But the more I've made a commitment
to be more organized again, the less stress is there.
So this is applying to kids or adults no matter
where you are. It's never too late to learn. But
(21:19):
I think the why is so important. No matter what
we're trying to parent at the time, whether it's a
clean room or why you can't watch a certain thing
or go to a certain place. Instead of just saying
a flat no, children really benefit from you sitting down
and just being honest and giving them the why behind it.
And then if you can't think of a good why,
(21:40):
then maybe you need to just you know, reflect as
to why you're answering no so quickly. And so I
just a little tidbit that we've been really trying to
implement in our homes, so now they have the knowledge.
And then also I love that you said it gives
them the independence when they know where something is and
they can take control over it, because that's always, you know,
something that's powerful for them. It's all about just raising
(22:02):
them up. I pictured my daughter, you know, having an
apartment and being in her twenties and having piles of
clothes everywhere, and I just was like, shoot, we can't
have this, absolutely, And you know, I think that we're
being fed so many images from social media and it
like everything supposed to look perfect. But if you don't
teach them the why, this is why we do this,
(22:25):
This is what makes sense. My grandmother. I mean, I
swear if I were ever going to get another tattoo,
I would get this. But my grandmother always said to me,
don't put it down, put it away. It's just my
motto for life, because if you put things away, you
know exactly where they are. And so it's this great
way of knowing, oh, I need to find something again,
and this is where it is. And it stops you
(22:45):
from over buying the same thing because you don't know
where you have it, or losing things. And my goal
with helping people to declutter and be organized is to
have a better life. It's not about being perfect. It's
not about rainbow colored bookshelf. It's about your life goes smoother.
And if you've got a family, or if you live
by yourself, the more stuff you're dealing with, the more
(23:07):
stress and the harder it is to live. I mean,
the amount of people that I work with that I'll
go in and I'll walk into their house and I'll
see the dining room table just covered with returns and
school books and backpacks and blah blah blah. First thing
I say is like, how often do you guys eat
family dinner together? They're like, no, if we go out
to eat, and it's like, that's such an important part
(23:28):
of life and core memories are having those family dinners.
But if your dining room table is cluttered with stuff,
you're gonna eat in front of the TV. So when
you trace back how clutter is affecting you, being closer
to your family, living better in your house, and just
being happier, it's a lot at the root of it. Well, Tracy,
I'm personally super thankful for this conversation, So this might
(23:51):
be a good time for us to do four things gratitude,
and I would love to just get to know you
in a little bit of a different way by hearing
four things that you are are currently thankful for. Okay,
four things I'm currently grateful for. I got married a
week ago, so I'm very grateful for my husband. Okay,
why are we talking right now? I know he actually
(24:13):
just took his daughter, my stepdaughter, up to go look
at a college, so they we just we got it
was a week and a half ago, so I'm very
very grateful for that. The wedding was just we really
approached it as a chance to celebrate in front of
our friends and family and really kind of didn't do
you a lot of the wedding stuff, and it was great.
(24:34):
It was so magical. So I'm super grateful for him.
If there's a stepdaughter, I assume he's been married before.
Is this your first or second, or yeah, this is
my first marriage. So I never was married. He was
married for a long time, so that was very interesting.
I had to fill out paperwork. We're taking a trip,
and for the first time in my life, I checked
(24:55):
the married box. He was like, how was that? And
I'm like, I think it's good. I think it's really good.
And you know, I said in my vows, I was
never waiting. You know, I wasn't waiting for him. I
have a great life. I had a great life, friends
and work and everything. And then I met him and
my life got better. I knew it was right because
(25:15):
I wasn't looking to him to fix me or to
fix my life. I was like, my life is fantastic.
And then all of a sudden, this person came around,
and the good that we can do together, his kids,
my family, you know, I have aging parents, it's all that.
So I'm super grateful for him. I'm super grateful for
having a husband, which was a crazy thing to say. Amy, Well,
(25:37):
you're only a week and half in, but I mean
just saying it so I can see why you're not
used to it yet. But I'm glad you said that
about you know, being happy with yourself and where you were.
I think a lot of times, like you said earlier
when we were talking about clutter magnets, we look for
other things to fix us. And I'll use myself as
an example because just my marriage ended and was married
(26:01):
for sixteen seventeen years, and I haven't started dating yet,
but I don't know what that will look like, but
I know that I don't want to look for anything
to remedy or fix the situation or put a band
aid on anything, like I want to be content with
where I am. But that might not be dating for
somebody else. It might be someone might be thinking, well,
(26:23):
once I get this career or once I get this job,
i'll be happy, or once I get X y Z,
I'll be happy. And I don't think you're really going
to find what you're supposed to find until you're happy
with yourself. And you are just a perfect example of
that exactly. And also that applies to stuff like people
are like, oh if I just get that, you know,
louisvitan Bag, I'm going to be happy. Or if I
(26:44):
just get that car, You're not. If you're not happy
in your day to day, if you don't feel good
about how you are in the world and how you
show up and how you help other people, the stuff
isn't going to fix it. And what's going to happen
is you're gonna start buying more and more and more,
and you're like, why isn't this working, And it's like,
because it doesn't work. The stuff doesn't work. Being of
(27:05):
service works, having a gratitude practice works. Taking a walk
in the sunshine works, Like, you know, all that stuff
that our grandmas have always told us, science is proving
it to be true. It's so funny that we've gone
all this way to go back and go right. Just
a walk in the sunshine. That will make me feel better.
So before you get into the second thing that you're
(27:25):
grateful for, I gotta know how you met your husband. Obviously,
super curious how sure people are going about meeting people
these days, So we'll get into that after the break,
(27:47):
all right, Tracy, give us the lowdown. How did you
meet your husband? We met online? The old fashioned ways,
I like to say, okay, which I had a great experience.
I met a bunch of super interesting people. And again
two things, I'll tell you two things. I let my
best friend fill out my profile okay, and she also,
(28:09):
to beare she's been married for a very long time
into a great guy. They have a fantastic marriage. To
be fair, she also swiped on my now husband because
I was like here, we were like girls night and
I was like, take my app, you do it, and
she was like what about this guy? And I was
like maybe, I don't know. I probably necessarily wouldn't have
so that sometimes if you're you know, if you go
(28:31):
into those apps resentful or I hate this or blah
blah blah, you're gonna have a bad experience. For me,
it was like it was just math. It's like the probability.
How am I going to meet people. I'm not going
to bars anymore, Like we're not in college. So it
raised the probability. And I had a great time. I
met a ton of fantastic people. I was super positive
(28:52):
about the experience. You know, I had people that are
still my friend friend today that I was like, yeah, no,
we're not supposed to date. But this is great. I
will give a shout out. This is unpaid, but we
met on bumble. Okay, is my favorite? Yeaps? That was
my favorite? That was your favorite? No, we like to know.
So back to Kat Defada, who co hosts The Good
Thing with Me. She also was a podcast called Unique
(29:14):
Therapy that I think you would really love. Actually, I
think you may need to go on there because I
bet y'all could have a deeper conversation, more of the
therapy side of what you do, you know, right, because
she would probably have some thoughts. So I'll connect y'all.
But I did two live podcast shows in Nashville recently
and we were down at the Franklin Theater in downtown Franklin.
I know that's where you were hanging out a little
(29:37):
bit Leaper's Fork area, And at the end of the
seven pm show, not in front of people by any means,
he was like, I don't want to do it in public.
We privately upstairs in the green room. Right when she
got off stage, because she did the Fourth Thing with me,
she went upstairs thinking Okay, I'm just gonna go up
here and get my stuff, and then he had completely
(29:59):
decorated the room really quickly with like candles and flowers
and photos of them, and they were everywhere. And they're
in this quaint historic theater, in this sweet little room,
and he got down on one knee and proposed, and
then they came downstairs and everybody, even listeners and all
the people, yeah, the ticket, all the people that worked
at the theater, everyone's in the lobby and they come
(30:19):
down and he's like, she said, yes, so oh that
is so sweet. But I say that because they met
on hinge. Yeah. It really like I'm just gonna say
this because I just had a conversation with this woman
the other day and she was just like, I shouldn't
have to advertise myself. And I was like, okay, well,
if you're going in with that attitude, it's not going
to work. And that's why it hasn't worked. You have
(30:39):
to think of it as math, just the probability of
meeting more people. So I'm a big fan. That's how
we met. It's you know, it's been fantastic. It's been great.
And I never really thought I can't married. I was like, yeah,
I don't know, and then I met this person. I
was like, yeah, I want to be married to you.
So I'm very grateful for my husband gratulations. Okay, second, third,
(31:01):
and fourth thing. Okay, I am absolutely grateful for farmers markets.
Right now, we have had so much rain in California.
The vegetables are just insane. Like we went on Sunday,
it's just so beautiful that, like the bounty of California.
I can't I'm like eating these delicious salads. I just
(31:22):
feel so lucky to be able to go and buy
beautiful vegetables. It's I don't know, it's so simple, but
it makes me so happy. I love that. Third thing.
Third thing is I am grateful to be able to
travel again. That's the thing, after that the pandemic. I
am so grateful to be able to planning a trip
(31:42):
with some friends and we just got back from a
little mini honeymoon, and to be able to travel again.
I'm so grateful for where's one place you have on
your list to go to? Kenya? Okay? I went to
Kenya and gosh, maybe two thousand and twelve, and it
was like, it's amazing. Yeah, I guess this is the
(32:03):
fourth thing. This will lead into the fourth thing. I'm
grateful for so I run a small nonprofit and we
rebuild schools in developing nations in Central America and Kenya.
So we've rebuilt thirteen schools in Kenya. They're all either
all girls schools or fifty percent girl and we haven't
been able to go visit our schools since twenty sixteen.
(32:23):
So I am grateful to be able to go and help.
And one of the projects that we're going to check
outline is we have we're creating feminine care products. So
we bought some machines and we are training workers and
they're manufacturing feminine care and then we're distributing to the
girls in our school. That's amazing. What's the name of
the nonprofit called One Kid, One World, One Kid, One World.
(32:48):
I'm super grateful for that. I'm super grateful for our donors.
We did a fundraiser for it for our wedding. It's
all come together. I can travel to go see and
you know, it's great because I'm sure, as you know,
access to feminine hair is the thing that keeps so
many young women out of school. So to be able
to help solve that problem just mean the world. No,
that's a huge thing. To be able to provide and
(33:09):
that's awesome, And I know the feeling of not being
able to go back to a place that you love
and hold near and dear to your heart. I haven't
been back to Haiti and over five years, which is
somewhere I spent a lot of time. We adopted two
kids from there, so my daughter's fifteen, almost sixteen, and
then my son is twelve. But they got to America
(33:33):
at seven and ten. So the last time I went
to Haiti was when we brought them to America. And
then Haiti has fallen under a lot of civil unrest
and it's just not safe to go. But before that,
I was going four times a year for five years
in a row. Like I was there often, and you know,
(33:54):
we have relationships there and friendships. Were still very involved
in the orphanage there and other organizations, and we have
a base Createitaian run but we helped get it going,
and there's a school like there. Yeah, there's just things
that you want to see just to celebrate and meet
the people that are working there, and we can't even go.
(34:15):
And so I'm so excited that you get to go
back to Kenya after such a long break. You know,
I think that we need to realize and to kind
of go back to the book make Space for Happiness.
You know, one of the things that happened to all
of us during the pandemic is that we lost connection, right,
we lost connection with people. And we cannot underestimate the
(34:35):
effect that that had on us. Right that we weren't
seeing the people, and we weren't going to the local
coffee shopping, we weren't kibbitzing and having a chat, or
we weren't being able to travel. And so what I
think what I really saw with people was that because
that connection was taken away, we just started shopping. It's like, okay,
well I'll buy a new prayer pans, I'll buy sweatsuit.
That'll fix everything. And I think as we're getting back
(34:58):
traveling and you know, really connecting with people again, I
just want us to realize that that's what we were missing,
and that's okay that we were missing it, and at
the end of the day, that's what matters to be
able to connect. Well, Chasey, thanks for taking the time
to talk with us. As absolute joy, I definitely going
to connect you with kat If you're down, I'm down,
(35:20):
You're probably gonna see me in Nashville pretty soon. I
got an email to the other day, so I'm like, okay, yay,
well when you're here, maybe you could even yeah, meet
with Kat and do a little sit down. I feel
as though your books would be very helpful for people
that are trying to process more. It's not just about organizing,
and I love that you're taking it to the next
(35:40):
level because there's always the root, the underlying issue, the thing.
The root of the thing is never the thing itself
exactly that it's maybe a book about decluttering, but it's
about you know, they just the feedback I get like people,
you know, people are open themselves up to relationships or
new jobs or you know, realizing where they were stuck.
(36:01):
That's the goal to just get people unstuck, get people
unstuck and living their best life unstuck. Yes, that is
a theme here, Like oh yeah, I just got goosebumps
because that's something that we focused on at a different
live show that we did. It was all about just
getting unstuck. So thank you so much for helping me
a part of that narrative. And again, people can check
(36:22):
out your nonprofit one Kid OneWorld dot com and then
you on Instagram. I feel like if they go to
your Instagram page, they'll find everything else. And again, that's
everything there. That's the funnest community. You know. We do
things over on TikTok. But I love Instagram, just everybody.
I just love it. So come on and see me
over there. And those challenges drop. I drop like two
(36:43):
to three of them a week, so oh, you know
your house will be totally decluttered. Okay, so Instagram is
at Tracy Underscore Mick Coven all right, thank you so much, Tracy.
If people want spelling or links, I'll link all of
this in the show notes so that way you can
find it easily. And I hope you have a good
rest of your day. You too, Amy, lovely to meet you.
I'm so thankful for what you do. Oh, thank you
(37:03):
you too. Bye bye
Joy Okay, cass up road, little food for yourself life ain't. Oh,
it's pretty much. It's pretty beautiful than beautiful. Laugh. A
little mouth tightening up said he you're kicking with four
(00:32):
Amy Brown, Happy Thursday. Four things Amy here. And my
guest today is an amazing woman. She's an entrepreneur, she's CEO,
and she's going to help us not only declutter our homes,
but also our minds. Yes, Tracy mccovin. She's coming to
us from LA. I'm in Nashville, and Tracy, I just
(00:52):
want to start with decluttering and organizing. I know that
you say that we can't really talk about that unless
we talk about our buying and our acquired habits first. Yeah,
my second book Makespace for Happiness. You know, I've been
a professional declutter for seventeen years now. I've I don't
know thousand, but five thousand homes, some crazy amount. And
(01:13):
I started, especially in the pandemic. I just started to notice,
like people were calling me and they're like, remember all
that stuff we declutter And I bought it again. And
I'm driving through LA and I'm seeing the like giant,
like leaning towers of packages on everybody and I'm like,
what is what is with the shopping? Like again, like
you said, we can't talk about decluttering if we're not
(01:34):
talking about what we're bringing in. Because people I was
looking at me, They're like, I don't know how this
stuff got in my house, and I'm like, well, you
brought it in. You are the one who purchased it
and brought it in. So I did a deep dive
on the science of shopping, like what we get from
shopping this dopamine hit and how it's not lasting, and
then what's really missing inside of us that we think
(01:57):
shopping is gonna fulfill? So what is it? What is missing?
Is it different for everybody. The way that I describe it,
I call these clutter magnets. So the way that I
see it when I work with clients and in myself,
it's almost like there's this little jigsaw puzzle piece of
ourself that we think is missing. So it's self confidence
or it's big love, or it's true connection, and so
(02:19):
we think we have this part of us missing and
we shop, shop, shop to try and fill it. Like
self confidence is a great one. You know, we all
get those anti aging ads and the creams and this
and you're like, oh, just this dress will fix me,
or this pair of shoes, or if I find the
perfect purse, and then you buy and you buy and
you buy, and it doesn't work because self confidence doesn't
come from the outside. So what I wanted to look
(02:40):
at is what were these seven clutter magnets. What are
these things that we're trying to fix by shopping, Why
are they not working? And how can we get that
from somewhere else? And look full disclosure, I'm not telling
people to not shop. I love a cute purse, I
love a cute pair of shoes, but if you're using
it to try and fix something, it's not going to work.
(03:02):
So not only do you help people declutter, but your
sort of therapy too. Yeah. So I grew up the
child of a hoarder, so I have watched my parents
struggle his whole life with his relationship to stuff and
really get in the way of other relationships. So I
really early on was like, Oh, our attachment to stuff
(03:23):
isn't about the stuff. It's about grief, it's about loss,
it's about love, it's about all these other things. And
when I keyed into that and was able to put
it into words, is when my business just took off.
Like I you know, I have an ability. It's almost
like I can read teals or something. I can go
and look at somebody's clutter and be like, oh, you're
really unhappy in your job, aren't you? Or you know,
(03:45):
did you just lose a parent? Like it shows up
in our stuff. So it's about getting a great relationship
with our stuff so that we can get what we
need from somewhere else. When I meet people, they are
in such a place of shame, and it's like, nope,
we're here now. How you made the first step. You
made a phone call, you reached out to me. That's positive.
So let's let's jump up from there. Let's figure out
(04:08):
what's not working for you, why it's not working, and
get it working. What's the first place that someone should start, Like,
where's the first place to begin? Because that for me,
that's the most overwhelming thing, is like, oh, I'm just
going to keep putting this off because I don't even
know where to begin. Absolutely, So the first step, and
this is I always joke, this is my Woo Woo
(04:28):
California first step. But the first step is I want
I always help people to focus on why do they
want to get organized? What do they hope to gain
out of it? Is it like as simple as I
want to get rid of my storage unit and I'm
paying two hundred dollars a month for or I want
to park my car my garage, or we want to
have a baby and the guest room that we want
(04:48):
to turn into a nursery is completely full. What's your why?
Because that's going to keep you motivated, and your why,
I can't be beating yourself up. It can't be I'm
a bad housekeeper, or I'm lazy. That's not a why
that so I don't even know what that. That's garbage.
We let that go. So you start with the why
and then start small. You know, I started doing these
five minute decluttering challenges on Instagram and TikTok. I was like,
(05:11):
let me just see how this. You know, it's how
I kind of operate in my own house. US see
an area that gets out of control. They just blew up,
Like people are like I can do five minutes, I
can do ten minutes. I can tackle coffee munths, I
can tackle you know, workout pants. And I broke it
down into really small, bite sized categories and people DM
me all the time. They're like, I did the challenges,
(05:32):
I've now done my whole house. So you know, I
think people need to be realistic about how much time
it takes and how much time they have and how
much drive they have, and if you break it up
into small chunks, it's gonna get done. It's sort of
like how do you eat an elephant one bite at
a time? That's right, and yeah, I could see how
that makes it less overwhelming. My sister is a mom
(05:56):
of four and she does ten minute PU sessions. She
has ever since they were little and now they're twelve
to twenty years old. But she'd set a timer and
for ten minutes, everybody just pitched in and did as
much as they could in ten minutes, and then it
sort of turns into a game of like how much
can I get done in these ten minutes? So that's
(06:17):
something I adopted from her that I'll do with myself.
So it makes sense that your five minute challenges would work.
And then yeah, if you commit to it for a
few weeks, you'd be surprised. You might get so much
done around your house. And the other thing that I
tell people too, is that savor your success. Like you'll
do a junk drawer or you'll do your closet and
you'll go, this feels so good, Like I like, this
(06:40):
is successful. You know I can go in and get
dressed in the morning without freaking outut or feeling bad
about myself. You know that all of a sudden, you're like, oh,
this works. Let me apply this to another part of
my house. Because we're building on making your house work
for you, making your house easier to be in. We're
all overwhelmed, right, We're all so busy. There's so many
hours in the day, and you know, we're working full
(07:03):
time and we're raising our kids and we're doing all
these things. And it's like, if you can make your
house run smoother, you're literally buying yourself time back. You
mentioned coffee mugs a second ago. How many are we
supposed to have? Because I feel like coffee mugs and
water bottles just somehow start to collect and they're overflowing.
(07:25):
I know, well, those funny coffee mugs was the one
that blew up because people are like, don't take mine
coffee bugs. People are so attached to their coffee mugs.
I mean, we you know, we have a house of
three people and we have eight and it works fine.
You know, we have to do with little dishes every
day anyway because of our life, and it's plenty of
coffee mugs, you know, so I sort of say two
(07:46):
per person in the house and two water bottles per person.
But water bottles, I swear. I mean, I don't know
if they like mate in the middle of the night,
because you will walk away and then you come back
the next day and you're like, where did all these
water bottles come from? Like it's crazy. Yeah, well, I
think of some mugs as being sentimental, and then that
makes me think of other sentimental things in your house.
(08:07):
How do you decide when to let something go? You know,
it's such a great question, and I always sort of
start with this statement, if everything is special, nothing is special.
So if you have a house full of all these
sentimental items and all you know, every nook and cranny
and every trophy participation award from your kids, it starts
(08:32):
to lose its meaning because it's just so much of it.
So when you go through, when you look at it,
you're like, oh, right, this trophy doesn't have their name
on it. It was a participation award, This isn't actually special,
And so when you can really do a dive of
it and actually declutter it, the things that mean something
to you stand out right. But if you have a
(08:55):
household furniture you don't like because it was your grandma's
and your grandpa's and your parents and the garage is
stuffed full, it starts to become a burden, and then
you're almost no longer respecting the person's memory or the
history behind it. If you resent it so much, it
doesn't serve you anymore. What about clothes? Is there a
(09:16):
timeline on how long we should hold on to something?
Asking for a friend, Amy, Yeah, and it's not. It's
not so much about the size thing, although that might
be something people need to address of I have a
whole podcast that's dedicated to body image and disordered eating
called out Way. And one of the things that a
lot of experts say is, Okay, I don't know where
you want to put those other clothes, but let's go
(09:37):
ahead and buy clothes that fit right now, so that
you can feel confident and cute and look good instead
of trying to just squeeze into something else. So that's
a whole other conversation of if you need to let something,
you know, it's super applicable. I mean, you know, I'm
fifty eight. I am the same weight that I was.
(09:57):
I mean, I've been the same way I don't know,
for twenty five years or something. But things fit me different.
Gravity hits like I can't fit into things that I
used to be able to fit into, and I can
fit into different things. And so I think that if
you are keeping all these clothes you can't fit into,
it's just this reminder of like who you used to be.
(10:18):
You know that I call that being stuck in the past,
that you're looking backwards and not forward. And your closet
should absolutely be full of clothes that you wear and
you feel really good in. And I'm really lucky. I
have two nieces, so I save all my special things
for them. You know, it's just great to pass it along.
But you know, and sometimes I'll do like I just
(10:40):
did it for spring. I just took a bunch of
clothes that were i don't know, like twenty pieces that
were really nice and they still fit, but I'm like
a little sick of them. And I was like, uh,
and I was like, you know, let me just move
them into the guest room closet so I don't see
them for a while, and then all of a sudden,
my closet was full of things that I loved and
I haven't even gone in there and pulled something out
(11:01):
of it. So you know, your closet should be full
of things that you wear and that you feel good in.
A great thing to like just to look at something.
If you saw an article of clothing you own in
the store today, would you buy it again? That's such
a great way because sometimes you look at and you're like,
oh no, I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't buy that again.
You're like, then, why are you hanging on to it?
So many people call me to work in their homes,
(11:24):
and one of the things that they say is I
walk into my closet in the morning and I burst
into tears, like I hate everything in it. I don't
fit in half of it. I just I keep it
as like goal weight, you know, And it's just like, oh,
that's not how I want you to start your day,
you know. I want you to be able to go
in your closet and put anything on and feel fantastic
in it, even if it's just not just but you know,
(11:45):
a sweatshirt and sweatpants. Like I just worked with this
woman whose husband had passed away and she was getting
ready to start dating again, and she'd gone through her
grief and you know, I have been really hard, but
I think he'd been gone about five years now, and
we went through her closet and I was like, would
you wear this on a date? And she's like, oh,
(12:06):
absolutely not, and I'm like out. It goes like, celebrate
your life. Let's have a closet full of things that
if somebody called you and said let's go grab a
cup of coffee, you could go in there, throw something
on and feel fantastic. So it can. It's about not
keeping the things that beat you up, but the things
that lift you up. Right now, what I'm hearing is
it's better for me to have less things in my closet,
(12:28):
but no matter what I grab, I'm gonna feel good
in it than have only a fourth of it that
I feel good and in three fourths, like my closet
may look full, but the other stuff is just oh,
it's not making me feel good. Absolutely, if if everything
in your closet you feel good in and you want
to wear, You're going to be excited. And by the way,
here's a big like new slash people. No one notices
(12:51):
if you repeat clothes. No one's gonna be like Amy
wore that three weeks ago. Like, we have this idea
that we are supposed to wear something new all the time,
and if you feel so good in something, you're going
to radiate. And that's what people are going to notice, right,
that's what people are going to see. So absolutely less
is more, better quality things that fit you. You know,
we all know. Go look at your hangars. If you've
(13:13):
got sweaters or shirts that have dust on the shoulders,
I mean, do you have but worn it in a
long time? Okay, that's me. I had that having the
other day with a pair of pants, Like I took
the pants out and they were black pants and then
there was this dust line where they were hanging on
the hangar. So okay, I'm going to go back to
that quote you said, because I really like it. If
everything is special, nothing is special. So start to really
(13:36):
go through and take inventory of things in your home,
and let's define what special really means. And less is more,
which also I mean I'm looking at the title your
book behind you too, make space for happiness. That's literally
what we're speaking to when it comes to the closet
is cleaning that stuff out, getting rid of it, making
space so that you walk into your closet and you're
actually happy and not bursting into tears. I work a
(14:00):
lot of people too who make big changes in their
diet or you know, or get on a health click,
and I walk into a clutter. I mean, first of all,
there is a study. I believe they did it at Harvard.
I can't I might not get this right. But they
put people in a cluttered kitchen and they offered them
a snack. They offered them a carrot and a cookie,
and the majority of the people, the participants in the
(14:21):
cluttered kitchen took the cookie as a snack. They repeated
this same experiment poot people in an uncluttered kitchen, and
people took the carrot. You know, if you're trying to
cook more and meal prep and you know, not ordering
and postmates so much that if your kitchen cluttered, you're
not gonna want to cook in it. You're just not
gonna You're gonna be like, oh, I'll just go through
the Starbucks drive through again. And you know, spend the
(14:43):
money and get all the calories and you know, but
if your kitchen is organized and you know where everything is,
it leads you to cooking more. Okay, after a quick
sponsor break, since they are how this podcast is made possible,
I want to talk about your OCD, which you have
nicknamed obsessive compulsive delightful, because well, I think it's just
going to be such an encouragement to people. All right, Tracy,
(15:17):
explain obsessive compulsive delightful. I do have OCD, and mine
shows up a little bit more intrusive thoughts than it
does repeated behaviors. But I found a way to take
my I don't even like to call it a disorder
and turn it into my work, you know, to get
things in order and to understand, like when I did
(15:38):
a deep dive and I understood, oh this is what
this is. It's OCD, Okay, But how can I take
some of the parts of it and make it productive
in my life? So I like to claim ownership of
my OCD, and you know, and call it delightful. I
love that The co host of The Fifth Thing, which
is a bonus episode to this podcast that comes out
(15:59):
on Tuesdays. She's my friend and her name's Katafada. She's
also a licensed therapist and we both have ADHD diagnosed,
and she's open, she talks about it. I never medicated
until recently, but it came up on a recent talk
that it's our superpower and instead of feeling shame behind
(16:19):
it or oh why do we have to deal with this? Okay,
what about this makes us to think in a different
way than other people, This is your superpower? Absolutely that.
I think that's the thing. When we're sort of non neurotypical,
to use the phrase, it's like, okay, but how can
I do that? How can I do something with this?
You know, it's also how I look at growing up
(16:40):
the child of a hoarder like it was very difficult.
It was a very, very very difficult childhood. He's still
dealing with it. It's very heartbreaking. But it also gave
me this empathy that most people in this business don't have. So,
you know, in a way, I was able to take
my greatest wound and turn it into something that I
can help people with. And you know, on the days
(17:02):
it's hard and I wanted, you know, I'm frustrated with
him I also remember that I'm going to be able
to help out their people. I actually have a personal
story that i'd like to share with you that just
went down in my house with my daughter. She wanted
to go over to her friend's house to spend the night,
but her room has been out of control, and so
I tried to use that as a little bit of,
(17:24):
you know, incentive to get her to do her room
by saying, Okay, you can go over to your friend's house,
but we've got to tackle your room and I'll join you.
I'll be by your side, but we've got to get
this under control. And I was trying to explain to
her that, you know, she would just feel better if
she had her stuff put away. And she's not a
messy person. She just has like piles of stuff all
(17:46):
around the room and she doesn't want to hang them up,
and I don't know what's going on with that. I
want her to, you know, you have control over her
own room. But at the same time, I feel like
I have a responsibility to teach her to put things away.
You know, one of the things I think when dealing
with kids and preteens and teens is that when you
start to talk to them about cleaning their room. They
(18:08):
kind of go on the defense, right, like they've like,
you've got to clean your room and they've never been
explained why. So to kind of understand the way I
describe clutter is I describe clutter as a constant to
do list. So if you've got piles around your room,
you're like, are those closed dirty or are they clean?
Kind of wear them again? Where am I going to
find them? You sort of put yourself in asking yourself
(18:30):
all these questions about your stuff. And so when you're
a kid and you know your prefrontal cortex is fusing
and your executive functioning, you just see like, oh, I
have to clean my room because my mom tells me too,
instead of no, By having a room clean, having things
put away, the outcome is that you know where to
(18:50):
find things and that they're clean when you go to
look at them. So it's helping kids understand that a
clean room helps you function better as opposed to just
like it looks nice. It's like it looks nice because
we feel less stressed. Right, It's like, oh that I
know exactly where to find things, I know exactly where
to get it, and I have the story I was
(19:10):
telling about I helped his family that had two little
boys in their playroom was a disaster, like a like
Lego had thrown up in there. It was awful. So
we went in the boys were at school. We did
the whole playroom. We got a piece of furniture to
organize everything, and you know bins, and it was like
the dinosaurs were in one bin and the stuffies were
in another, and all the army guys were in another.
(19:33):
And then came up from school and the first thing
they like stopped in their tracks and their eyes got
so big and they're like, we can see our things,
and then little one goes, my guys, my guys. I
missed my guys. And so it was this led to
this conversation about putting things in a place where you
know where to find them means that when you want
(19:53):
to play with them again, you can find them. And
I think with kids, having them understand that being organize
is setting them up for success. Right, That's my whole goal.
My whole goal everything with my clients, with the books
I've written everything as I want people to understand that
their home is a tool, and it's a tool to
(20:13):
support them to rest them, to replenish them, to refresh them,
to feed them. And if your home is cluttered, it's
not supporting you in the way, it's taking away from you.
So for teens and kids, it's like getting them to
understand in that little piece of their room. Look. The
most boring conversation between parents and kids as mom, where's
my where's my? Where's so being able to say, like, look,
(20:36):
if you hang your backpack up in the same place
every day, you know where to find it, and it
fosters independence in them. So I think for parents, it's understanding,
like you said, finding the words to explain why this works,
helping them implement it, and seeing the success. Yeah, I've
heard from multiple parenting experts and well quickly I'll say this.
(20:57):
I know we're talking about a child's but I think
if you're an adult listening right now, and you're you're
frantically always running around looking for things, and trust me,
that's been me. But the more I've made a commitment
to be more organized again, the less stress is there.
So this is applying to kids or adults no matter
where you are. It's never too late to learn. But
(21:19):
I think the why is so important. No matter what
we're trying to parent at the time, whether it's a
clean room or why you can't watch a certain thing
or go to a certain place. Instead of just saying
a flat no, children really benefit from you sitting down
and just being honest and giving them the why behind it.
And then if you can't think of a good why,
(21:40):
then maybe you need to just you know, reflect as
to why you're answering no so quickly. And so I
just a little tidbit that we've been really trying to
implement in our homes, so now they have the knowledge.
And then also I love that you said it gives
them the independence when they know where something is and
they can take control over it, because that's always, you know,
something that's powerful for them. It's all about just raising
(22:02):
them up. I pictured my daughter, you know, having an
apartment and being in her twenties and having piles of
clothes everywhere, and I just was like, shoot, we can't
have this, absolutely, And you know, I think that we're
being fed so many images from social media and it
like everything supposed to look perfect. But if you don't
teach them the why, this is why we do this,
(22:25):
This is what makes sense. My grandmother. I mean, I
swear if I were ever going to get another tattoo,
I would get this. But my grandmother always said to me,
don't put it down, put it away. It's just my
motto for life, because if you put things away, you
know exactly where they are. And so it's this great
way of knowing, oh, I need to find something again,
and this is where it is. And it stops you
(22:45):
from over buying the same thing because you don't know
where you have it, or losing things. And my goal
with helping people to declutter and be organized is to
have a better life. It's not about being perfect. It's
not about rainbow colored bookshelf. It's about your life goes smoother.
And if you've got a family, or if you live
by yourself, the more stuff you're dealing with, the more
(23:07):
stress and the harder it is to live. I mean,
the amount of people that I work with that I'll
go in and I'll walk into their house and I'll
see the dining room table just covered with returns and
school books and backpacks and blah blah blah. First thing
I say is like, how often do you guys eat
family dinner together? They're like, no, if we go out
to eat, and it's like, that's such an important part
(23:28):
of life and core memories are having those family dinners.
But if your dining room table is cluttered with stuff,
you're gonna eat in front of the TV. So when
you trace back how clutter is affecting you, being closer
to your family, living better in your house, and just
being happier, it's a lot at the root of it. Well, Tracy,
I'm personally super thankful for this conversation, So this might
(23:51):
be a good time for us to do four things gratitude,
and I would love to just get to know you
in a little bit of a different way by hearing
four things that you are are currently thankful for. Okay,
four things I'm currently grateful for. I got married a
week ago, so I'm very grateful for my husband. Okay,
why are we talking right now? I know he actually
(24:13):
just took his daughter, my stepdaughter, up to go look
at a college, so they we just we got it
was a week and a half ago, so I'm very
very grateful for that. The wedding was just we really
approached it as a chance to celebrate in front of
our friends and family and really kind of didn't do
you a lot of the wedding stuff, and it was great.
(24:34):
It was so magical. So I'm super grateful for him.
If there's a stepdaughter, I assume he's been married before.
Is this your first or second, or yeah, this is
my first marriage. So I never was married. He was
married for a long time, so that was very interesting.
I had to fill out paperwork. We're taking a trip,
and for the first time in my life, I checked
(24:55):
the married box. He was like, how was that? And
I'm like, I think it's good. I think it's really good.
And you know, I said in my vows, I was
never waiting. You know, I wasn't waiting for him. I
have a great life. I had a great life, friends
and work and everything. And then I met him and
my life got better. I knew it was right because
(25:15):
I wasn't looking to him to fix me or to
fix my life. I was like, my life is fantastic.
And then all of a sudden, this person came around,
and the good that we can do together, his kids,
my family, you know, I have aging parents, it's all that.
So I'm super grateful for him. I'm super grateful for
having a husband, which was a crazy thing to say. Amy, Well,
(25:37):
you're only a week and half in, but I mean
just saying it so I can see why you're not
used to it yet. But I'm glad you said that
about you know, being happy with yourself and where you were.
I think a lot of times, like you said earlier
when we were talking about clutter magnets, we look for
other things to fix us. And I'll use myself as
an example because just my marriage ended and was married
(26:01):
for sixteen seventeen years, and I haven't started dating yet,
but I don't know what that will look like, but
I know that I don't want to look for anything
to remedy or fix the situation or put a band
aid on anything, like I want to be content with
where I am. But that might not be dating for
somebody else. It might be someone might be thinking, well,
(26:23):
once I get this career or once I get this job,
i'll be happy, or once I get X y Z,
I'll be happy. And I don't think you're really going
to find what you're supposed to find until you're happy
with yourself. And you are just a perfect example of
that exactly. And also that applies to stuff like people
are like, oh if I just get that, you know,
louisvitan Bag, I'm going to be happy. Or if I
(26:44):
just get that car, You're not. If you're not happy
in your day to day, if you don't feel good
about how you are in the world and how you
show up and how you help other people, the stuff
isn't going to fix it. And what's going to happen
is you're gonna start buying more and more and more,
and you're like, why isn't this working, And it's like,
because it doesn't work. The stuff doesn't work. Being of
(27:05):
service works, having a gratitude practice works. Taking a walk
in the sunshine works, Like, you know, all that stuff
that our grandmas have always told us, science is proving
it to be true. It's so funny that we've gone
all this way to go back and go right. Just
a walk in the sunshine. That will make me feel better.
So before you get into the second thing that you're
(27:25):
grateful for, I gotta know how you met your husband. Obviously,
super curious how sure people are going about meeting people
these days, So we'll get into that after the break,
(27:47):
all right, Tracy, give us the lowdown. How did you
meet your husband? We met online? The old fashioned ways,
I like to say, okay, which I had a great experience.
I met a bunch of super interesting people. And again
two things, I'll tell you two things. I let my
best friend fill out my profile okay, and she also,
(28:09):
to beare she's been married for a very long time
into a great guy. They have a fantastic marriage. To
be fair, she also swiped on my now husband because
I was like here, we were like girls night and
I was like, take my app, you do it, and
she was like what about this guy? And I was
like maybe, I don't know. I probably necessarily wouldn't have
so that sometimes if you're you know, if you go
(28:31):
into those apps resentful or I hate this or blah
blah blah, you're gonna have a bad experience. For me,
it was like it was just math. It's like the probability.
How am I going to meet people. I'm not going
to bars anymore, Like we're not in college. So it
raised the probability. And I had a great time. I
met a ton of fantastic people. I was super positive
(28:52):
about the experience. You know, I had people that are
still my friend friend today that I was like, yeah, no,
we're not supposed to date. But this is great. I
will give a shout out. This is unpaid, but we
met on bumble. Okay, is my favorite? Yeaps? That was
my favorite? That was your favorite? No, we like to know.
So back to Kat Defada, who co hosts The Good
Thing with Me. She also was a podcast called Unique
(29:14):
Therapy that I think you would really love. Actually, I
think you may need to go on there because I
bet y'all could have a deeper conversation, more of the
therapy side of what you do, you know, right, because
she would probably have some thoughts. So I'll connect y'all.
But I did two live podcast shows in Nashville recently
and we were down at the Franklin Theater in downtown Franklin.
I know that's where you were hanging out a little
(29:37):
bit Leaper's Fork area, And at the end of the
seven pm show, not in front of people by any means,
he was like, I don't want to do it in public.
We privately upstairs in the green room. Right when she
got off stage, because she did the Fourth Thing with me,
she went upstairs thinking Okay, I'm just gonna go up
here and get my stuff, and then he had completely
(29:59):
decorated the room really quickly with like candles and flowers
and photos of them, and they were everywhere. And they're
in this quaint historic theater, in this sweet little room,
and he got down on one knee and proposed, and
then they came downstairs and everybody, even listeners and all
the people, yeah, the ticket, all the people that worked
at the theater, everyone's in the lobby and they come
(30:19):
down and he's like, she said, yes, so oh that
is so sweet. But I say that because they met
on hinge. Yeah. It really like I'm just gonna say
this because I just had a conversation with this woman
the other day and she was just like, I shouldn't
have to advertise myself. And I was like, okay, well,
if you're going in with that attitude, it's not going
to work. And that's why it hasn't worked. You have
(30:39):
to think of it as math, just the probability of
meeting more people. So I'm a big fan. That's how
we met. It's you know, it's been fantastic. It's been great.
And I never really thought I can't married. I was like, yeah,
I don't know, and then I met this person. I
was like, yeah, I want to be married to you.
So I'm very grateful for my husband gratulations. Okay, second, third,
(31:01):
and fourth thing. Okay, I am absolutely grateful for farmers markets.
Right now, we have had so much rain in California.
The vegetables are just insane. Like we went on Sunday,
it's just so beautiful that, like the bounty of California.
I can't I'm like eating these delicious salads. I just
(31:22):
feel so lucky to be able to go and buy
beautiful vegetables. It's I don't know, it's so simple, but
it makes me so happy. I love that. Third thing.
Third thing is I am grateful to be able to
travel again. That's the thing, after that the pandemic. I
am so grateful to be able to planning a trip
(31:42):
with some friends and we just got back from a
little mini honeymoon, and to be able to travel again.
I'm so grateful for where's one place you have on
your list to go to? Kenya? Okay? I went to
Kenya and gosh, maybe two thousand and twelve, and it
was like, it's amazing. Yeah, I guess this is the
(32:03):
fourth thing. This will lead into the fourth thing. I'm
grateful for so I run a small nonprofit and we
rebuild schools in developing nations in Central America and Kenya.
So we've rebuilt thirteen schools in Kenya. They're all either
all girls schools or fifty percent girl and we haven't
been able to go visit our schools since twenty sixteen.
(32:23):
So I am grateful to be able to go and help.
And one of the projects that we're going to check
outline is we have we're creating feminine care products. So
we bought some machines and we are training workers and
they're manufacturing feminine care and then we're distributing to the
girls in our school. That's amazing. What's the name of
the nonprofit called One Kid, One World, One Kid, One World.
(32:48):
I'm super grateful for that. I'm super grateful for our donors.
We did a fundraiser for it for our wedding. It's
all come together. I can travel to go see and
you know, it's great because I'm sure, as you know,
access to feminine hair is the thing that keeps so
many young women out of school. So to be able
to help solve that problem just mean the world. No,
that's a huge thing. To be able to provide and
(33:09):
that's awesome, And I know the feeling of not being
able to go back to a place that you love
and hold near and dear to your heart. I haven't
been back to Haiti and over five years, which is
somewhere I spent a lot of time. We adopted two
kids from there, so my daughter's fifteen, almost sixteen, and
then my son is twelve. But they got to America
(33:33):
at seven and ten. So the last time I went
to Haiti was when we brought them to America. And
then Haiti has fallen under a lot of civil unrest
and it's just not safe to go. But before that,
I was going four times a year for five years
in a row. Like I was there often, and you know,
(33:54):
we have relationships there and friendships. Were still very involved
in the orphanage there and other organizations, and we have
a base Createitaian run but we helped get it going,
and there's a school like there. Yeah, there's just things
that you want to see just to celebrate and meet
the people that are working there, and we can't even go.
(34:15):
And so I'm so excited that you get to go
back to Kenya after such a long break. You know,
I think that we need to realize and to kind
of go back to the book make Space for Happiness.
You know, one of the things that happened to all
of us during the pandemic is that we lost connection, right,
we lost connection with people. And we cannot underestimate the
(34:35):
effect that that had on us. Right that we weren't
seeing the people, and we weren't going to the local
coffee shopping, we weren't kibbitzing and having a chat, or
we weren't being able to travel. And so what I
think what I really saw with people was that because
that connection was taken away, we just started shopping. It's like, okay,
well I'll buy a new prayer pans, I'll buy sweatsuit.
That'll fix everything. And I think as we're getting back
(34:58):
traveling and you know, really connecting with people again, I
just want us to realize that that's what we were missing,
and that's okay that we were missing it, and at
the end of the day, that's what matters to be
able to connect. Well, Chasey, thanks for taking the time
to talk with us. As absolute joy, I definitely going
to connect you with kat If you're down, I'm down,
(35:20):
You're probably gonna see me in Nashville pretty soon. I
got an email to the other day, so I'm like, okay, yay,
well when you're here, maybe you could even yeah, meet
with Kat and do a little sit down. I feel
as though your books would be very helpful for people
that are trying to process more. It's not just about organizing,
and I love that you're taking it to the next
(35:40):
level because there's always the root, the underlying issue, the thing.
The root of the thing is never the thing itself
exactly that it's maybe a book about decluttering, but it's
about you know, they just the feedback I get like people,
you know, people are open themselves up to relationships or
new jobs or you know, realizing where they were stuck.
(36:01):
That's the goal to just get people unstuck, get people
unstuck and living their best life unstuck. Yes, that is
a theme here, Like oh yeah, I just got goosebumps
because that's something that we focused on at a different
live show that we did. It was all about just
getting unstuck. So thank you so much for helping me
a part of that narrative. And again, people can check
(36:22):
out your nonprofit one Kid OneWorld dot com and then
you on Instagram. I feel like if they go to
your Instagram page, they'll find everything else. And again, that's
everything there. That's the funnest community. You know. We do
things over on TikTok. But I love Instagram, just everybody.
I just love it. So come on and see me
over there. And those challenges drop. I drop like two
(36:43):
to three of them a week, so oh, you know
your house will be totally decluttered. Okay, so Instagram is
at Tracy Underscore Mick Coven all right, thank you so much, Tracy.
If people want spelling or links, I'll link all of
this in the show notes so that way you can
find it easily. And I hope you have a good
rest of your day. You too, Amy, lovely to meet you.
I'm so thankful for what you do. Oh, thank you
(37:03):
you too. Bye bye
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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