July 27, 2023 • 46 mins
Divorce is heartbreaking for any family, but it can be uniquely brutal for the family of a megachurch pastor. Amy’s guest, Brandi Wilson, tells her story of healing and wants women (especially Christian women) to know that divorce is not the end of their story and that they will be better than okay!!
Through her new book, Better Than Okay: Finding Hope and Healing After Your Marriage Ends, Brandi helps women: rely on and find comfort in the promises of God, begin a new journey toward healing, and find freedom in their new reality!
HOST: Amy Brown // @RadioAmy // RadioAmy.com
GUEST: Brandi Wilson // @lovebrandiwilson // BetterThanOkayBook.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Up little food for yourself life.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh it's pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hey, it's pretty beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thing beautiful that for a little more, said he your
kicking with full thing with Amy Brown.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Happy Thursday, four Things, Amy here, and my guest today
is Brandy Wilson, who is a friend but also well.
At a point in time, I went to the church
in which you were the wife of the pastor that
was there, and we'll get into some of that, but
you're over because you wrote a book.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's called Better.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Than Okay, and I love that title so much. We
were talking before we started recording, and you know, you
had mentioned that people sometimes ask you your book is
about the divorce that you had from said pastor, and
that divorce is not the end of your story, and
that someone would come to you and say, is this
going to get any better? Am I going to be okay?
(01:12):
This feels so, you know the opposite of okay? Yes,
And I have been there, and you had already been
through the weeds and you're on the other side and
you were able to look at them and say it's
going to be better than okay.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, You're going to be better than okay, Like life
is going to be better than okay. You are going
to be better than okay. Yeah, And I think that's
just such a message of hope because in the midst
when you're in the weeds of a divorce and there's
so much loss around you, you just want somebody to say, like,
you're going to be okay, You're going to make it,
(01:43):
keep going, You've got this well.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Obviously, this story involves multiple people, and when you set
out to write a book, that's likely very therapeutic and
healing for you, but also is going to be very
therapeutic and healing for other people in knowing that they're
not alone. When did you decide that you were going
to write a book about your story? And then how
did you decide what to say what not to say?
(02:08):
And this is something that unfolded years ago, and it
was at the talk of the town.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yes, just to give a little backstory, I married my
college sweetheart back in nineteen ninety six, and right out
of college, we had planted a church in Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
We were there for five years.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
We then moved to Nashville in two thousand and one,
and in two thousand and two planeted Cross Point Church,
which is still in Nashville. And going strong, and Crosspoint
was one of the fastest growing churches in the nation.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It could still be. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I'm not there, but at that time one of the
fastest growing churches in the nation. And after fourteen years
of serving there, twenty years of marriage, my husband at
the time just chose to walk away in September of
twenty sixteen. He left the church, he left the ministry
that we had started, He left our family, He walked
away from our marriage and life as I knew it ended.
(02:58):
I had planner amy, so this is not at all
what I foresaw in my plan of life. And I
was devastated. I felt damaged. I felt destroyed. It's easier
to tell you what I didn't feel rather than what
I was feeling, because life had just fallen apart, and
I think pretty quickly there were things I started to
(03:20):
recognize about the fact that I'd functioned in well. I
tried to function in a dysfunctional, unhealthy relationship for a
really long time. Stuff about the past continued to come
out where I realized that there was always a double
life being lived. There was always a third person in
our marriage the majority of the time, which is difficult
to reconcile what was real and what wasn't. And I
(03:43):
think pretty early on, I knew that I was not
going to allow this to destroy me, that I was
going to take care of myself and take care of
my kids. And I didn't know what that looked like,
but those became my two goals.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And I knew when I got to the end of.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Walking through the divorce that I wanted to be able
to look back at the way I'd handled myself and
be proud of how I'd walked through such a tragedy.
And I wanted to give my kids a picture of
strength and also faith of how I was taking one
day at a time and leaning on God in the
midst of it. My divorce was final in twenty sixteen.
(04:20):
I had thought about writing a book for a little while.
I just didn't know if it would be hard to
revisit it. I didn't know exactly what stance I would
take when I wrote the book. And then toward the
end of twenty twenty one, I had someone reach out
and I had put a proposal together and it had
gotten into their hands and they just asked if we
could talk.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
And at that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Point, the timing felt right, because I had done enough
work therapy, therapy, intensives. I had spent a lot of
time getting to know myself again, trusting my gut, leaning
into my intuition, working through that mind body connection that
I felt like, Okay, I'm going to be able to
write a book out of my scars and not my wounds.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
When we're wounded, we're bleeding, and it.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Needs attention, and things need to be repaired, and sometimes
things have to be removed. And I had done so
much healing work at that point I knew that what
I could do is write out of my scars and
therefore provide hope and healing for other people walking through
the stages of a divorce.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
When you said you wanted to write from scars and
not wounds, I love that so much. And I think
that that's wisdom right there, because sometimes we may even
think that we're healed, yes, right, yeah, just making for sure,
for sure that's a scar before, because yeah, you are
coming from a different place and you're sort of responding
to what you've been through instead of reacting right for sure,
(05:48):
And that can be in a confrontation that's in your
kitchen one day with something like should I do I
want to respond to this, or do I want to react?
Or it can be to a bigger picture thing like
this where right life has completely changed and there's multiple
people involved. And you know, it's interesting to use the
wound and scar analogy because I know also with this book, you're.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Not out for blood for anybody. I know your heart
and you're.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
In such a beautiful place, and I've loved watching you
fall into your lane and tap into your gifts and
be there for other people and women in particular, especially now,
women that have experienced the loss of a relationship like
this and you're providing them, yeah, the hope that's there
and sharing the different ways in which you were able
(06:34):
to heal and move forward with your life when it
completely crumbled.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I think in doing that, I had three kids watching
how I was going to react or respond, And I
did a week at on Site, which is right outside
of Nashville, Cumberland Furnace, and one of the therapists there, Bill Loki, said,
your child's resilience is directly impacted by the way the
parent chooses to own their story, understand their story, and
(07:00):
communicate their story. So at that point, when I kept saying, like,
I got to take care of my kids and myself.
I realized that taking care of my kids meant taking
care of myself first. So how could I own my
story what had happened to me, not deny it, not
avoid it, like own this is what happened to me,
Understand it, unpack the patterns, the habits, the unhealthy habits
(07:23):
that had gotten me there, and then how can I
communicate what I'm learning about myself and then even practice
healthy communication in the other relationships that are in my life.
So that kind of gave me a roadmap of how
I wanted to be able to move forward.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And it was a lot of trial and error.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I have not always gotten it right, but that just
allowed me to say, if I'm going to take care
of my kids and myself, this is what it looks
like to take care of myself first.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So, yeah, my.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Kids have watched every step of the way, as I've
done lots of counseling and therapy and yoga. And we
were talking about Ali Fallon earlier. They do a self
care work.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
That I ate this year.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I went the first time they did it, and it's amazing,
and that was even part of my healing to realize
that I could change the neurological pathways in my brain
to not hear the negative talk that I had been
experiencing for so long, so which it directly impacted your
self worth, directly impacted my self worth and what I
(08:22):
thought I was capable.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Of, and you're capable of so much.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
And that's what's beautiful to see, is because I think
that sometimes in certain relationships, depending on the dynamic, if
it's not a healthy dynamic, then someone's stunted, right.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
For sure, someone's totally stunted. And honestly, I was very
stunted because I was trying to function in an unhealthy dynamic.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm a two on the Enneagram, so I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I was just about to ask you your two number. Okay,
so you're a helper.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yes, I'm a helper. So I'm really good at taking
care of other people. And I'm a great support system
person and let me cheer you on and let me
show up and help you out. And I think I'd
spent so many years doing that that I'd lost who
I was. So honestly, one of the biggest parts of
my divorce and moving forward was identity and figuring out
who am I, what do I want my life.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
To look like? What does it look like for me
to think about dreaming again?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And instead of just supporting other people who are chasing
their dreams, began to chase some of my own.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What's almost like since your early twenties, Yes, you've not
just been, you know, a wife, but you're a pastor's wife.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, so that's a whole nother identity in itself. Just
living in a fish bowl amy and you know, just
knowing sometimes how your life is and then having to
walk through those double doors every.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Sunday yep, and being like.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Here we are, yes, stuff it all down, just to
like simplify it. I had three sons in five years,
so three boys. So by the time the third one
was born, it's like I had one that could hold
my hand or hold the stroller, one on my hip,
and then the baby and the stroller. And my goal
was to get to church on Sunday mornings without looking
(10:04):
like I was crazy because everyone was going in all
these different directions.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So I remember just telling.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Myself, if you can get there and get into childcare
and drop everyone off and still look like you're saying,
then that's a.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Win because everyone was watching.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
You knew as soon as I got out of the
car and I had the three blond haired boys, and
everyone knew that you were married to the pastor. And
they're watching to see how things happen, and lots of
them are cheering you on. But at the same time,
you're just aware you're being watched, and that's kind of
an uncomfortable spot to be in. How did the boys
feel about your writing a book? They were great about it, honestly,
they cheered me on. My oldest he was one of
(10:42):
the first people to read it, and he read every
page and called me when he finished.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
He actually it was so funny.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
He called me midway and he was like, You've got
some good stuff in this dating chapter that I'm going
to start remembering. I'm like, great, not sure how I
feel about that, but great. Then he called me at
the end, and the last story I tell is actually
an interaction between he and I that was really beautiful
because I think behind women asking am I going to
(11:10):
be okay? The second question they ask is will my
kids be okay? And I can tell you that I
never ever wanted divorce to be part of my personal story,
nor did I want it to be part of my
kid's story. I did not want it to be a
journey that they had to walk. And there's a lot
of stress and just trying to and we can never
(11:31):
get it perfect, but trying to do the best job
that we can raising our kids as we're grieving, as
they're grieving, as we're figuring it out again. And super
early on, I decided like I wanted to redefine family,
like nothing was missing. We were now a unit of four.
My sons are currently twenty two, nineteen, and seventeen, and
(11:55):
we were this unit of four that I referred to
as US four, but we were having to refigure out
how our family functioned.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I chose to sell my.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
House that I had lived in for twelve years, bought
a new house for us, started creating new memories with
the four of us, new traditions around the holidays, and
just really focused. I don't even know that I said
it out loud as much as I was just aware
as a mom, one of my goals was to redefine
family like nothing was missing. And a couple of years ago,
I was speaking at a conference out west, and my
(12:26):
oldest son is in College at Birmingham, and he had said,
can I watch you your talk? I was like sure,
so I sent him the link so he could stream it.
And in that talk, I actually revisit a moment when
the four of us were at the beach together, and
we're sitting by a fire outside at the beach and
we just had this really wonderful week just the four
of us on vacation, like family vacation, us with one
(12:50):
mom and you know, single mom and three kids and
studying by that fire and just realizing like, I did it.
We did it. We redefined family and nothing is missing.
We don't go on this trip and think like, oh,
this would be better if we go on this trip
and enjoy being together, the four of us. So I'm
retelling the story and I say like, I didn't want
(13:12):
divorce to be part of my story. I didn't want
to be part of my kid's story. However, at this
point in my life, I wouldn't change anything.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I love where we are, I love who we are
as a family.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And when I wrapped up that talk, I went backstage
to the green room and I picked up my phone
and I had like seven text messages from my oldest
son and they were super sweet. It was like, I
like the outfit you have on and that joke was funny,
and the audience, they're loving you. And then I got
to the last two text messages. I have goosebumps every
time I talk about it. But the last two text
(13:44):
messages said I couldn't agree more. And then the last
one said, I wouldn't change our lives for anything.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And I think just.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
To know that my kids recognize that we went through
a lot together and we chose to allow that to
bring us together rather than push us apart, and we're
actually cemented together. You know. I would say initially I
keep my nest really tight because we had been through
so much.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I was super protective.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And we've been able to expand our nest and let
other people close to our family, and that feels good too.
So I think to have made it through what we
went through as a family unit, man, I'm just super
grateful that they recognize that it took a lot of
work from all of us to be able to redefine
family like nothing was missing.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
And similar to you, I never want a divorce for myself,
for my kids. And there's often this question I feel
like for anybody, regardless of your faith background, it's not
what you want. If you've set out to get married,
it's like, okay, through sickness and in health, then exactly
the thick and thin. I don't remember what all the
vowels are, but you're basically vowing to stay together no
(14:56):
matter what, for richer, for poor, all that. But you know,
you question like did we do the right thing? Or
did I do whoever's the decision maker is like was
this the right thing? Or what could I have done differently?
Or what could I do better? Or is there still
something I can do? But someone may know deep down Okay, no,
I really think this may be the path for me,
(15:16):
but I have so much fear attached to it because
of the stigma or there's shame. What do you have
to say for either fellow divorce moms like me that
are already have made that decision or women that maybe
or moms too maybe on the fence of like there's
something better for me, yes, but they feel like if
they go through with something like that, that it's this
(15:38):
extreme failure and their life is forever ruined.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, it was so interesting, Amy, when I got divorced
and I started meeting with other women who were divorced.
If we were in public at a restaurant or a
coffee shop, it's when they started to tell their story.
They'd say and then in you know, four years ago,
I got divorced, and they'd almost drop their voice and
bring it back up. And that's when I started recogniz like, Okay,
there's a lot of shame that goes with divorce. And
(16:04):
I do think there is that question. I asked myself
the same thing, like have I made the right decision
in order to move forward with this? And I think
there are a couple of things that goes on there.
I think one of the things that was super valuable
to me in dealing with the shame is to recognize
whose voice I heard in my head.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And I would hear these phrases.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Like Brandy, you're not a good time manager, and Brandy,
why would you start your own business?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
You're not a great leader? And do people really like you?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
And maybe you just create more chaos than you actually
bring value to a situation. So I would hear all
these voices and there is a moment where I just
I stopped and I was like, whose voice do I
hear in my head, and I identified it as my
ex husband, And I think.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
We all have that voice. Maybe not all of.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Us, but a large majority of the population has that voice.
And they can trace it back to maybe a coach
in elementary school or a teacher, or maybe an ex
boyfriend or girlfriend, but a parent, someone that had value
in their life that spoke something that they still continue
to hear in their head. So for me, it became
identifying that voice. And then because I have the faith
(17:14):
I have, it's like I want it to be God's
voice in my head. So I started, you know, recording
in my journal what were the voices I didn't want
to hear? And then what does God say about me?
So what is the truth about who I am? And
then I put little post it notes. I still have
one in my primary bathroom now that says, whose voice
do I hear? Let it be God's and just that
(17:34):
reminder of man, my ex husband took enough of my
life and my mental space and all of that he
doesn't get anymore. I am going to know who I
am based on my relationship with God and how He
has created me, and that's going to be the truth
that I cling to.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
When it comes to your faith during that time when
everything was falling apart, I feel like some people may
go the opposite direction, or I may lean more into it.
What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I went from being surrounded by thousands of people all
the time.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
The church was very large.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So I went from like legitimately feeling like life was
huge and there were people everywhere too. It shrunk down
to I talked to three people and my therapist on
a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So honestly, because.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Life's shrunk, I spend a lot of time alone and
talk to God a ton. Now I do want to validate.
I was angry, I was frustrated. I didn't understand why
he wasn't answering prayers. I remember laying face down on
my bedroom begging for him to heal my marriage and
just give me one ounce of hope and that not happening,
(18:51):
and being able to just show up to God in
this way that was super authentic with where I was.
For me helped create a secure attachment. And we talk
a lot about attachment and parenting. It's also called bonding science,
and what attachment between a parent and a child looks like.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I think that was probably the first time for
me in my.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Forties that I actually leaned into my relationship with God
in an authentic way, because I showed up angry, mad,
questioning him, doubting if he was going to show up.
And you know, when the person who's supposed to love
you the most leaves, you wonder if anyone will love you.
And God was really gracious to give me super small
(19:35):
ways and then large ways that reminded me he loved
me and he was taking care of me and Amy.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
It could be in the middle of.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Me having a fit of like, why won't you just
answer this prayer? You've reconciled all these people I know
their marriages through similar stories, why aren't you fixing mine?
And he would just nudge me, and I think I
got to the point where I realized, Okay, I've been
asking him to.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Heal my marriage. He really wants to do is heal me?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And that was huge for me to realize, like, Okay,
healing can happen in my life. Might not be my marriage,
but healing can happen for me. Restoration can happen for me.
Might not happen in my marriage, it can still happen
for me. And to be able to realize, like, Okay,
he has shown up, and he's shown up when I'm
mad and angry, and he has stayed through all of that.
(20:24):
So I think his presence to me during all of
that doubt and questioning made him a safe place for me.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
To be able to go to.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
You know, a second ago, you mentioned like healing is possible,
and you realized that that was going to be the
case for you. You were going to be able to heal,
and that your faith was strengthened. And really, when you
have a relationship like that with God, like you're never
really alone. But chapter six of your book, it starts
off like this, I've never missed my ex, but I
(20:54):
felt immensely lonely, so talk about how loneliness both hurts
and heal.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I think loneliness is huge, and it's the piece we don't.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Expect because I did have great support system of friends
around me, and I had my kids the majority of
the time, but even sometimes when I'm surrounded by people,
I felt lonely. And what I had to recognize for
me is that I had been lonely for a really
long time in my marriage. So I had to recognize
that and realized that I had been filling that hole
(21:23):
with other things in order to not feel that loneliness.
And I remember my therapist saying to me, like, you
need to set in your loneliness, and I'm like, no,
I don't want to do that. That sounds miserable. I
am definitely an introvert, but I'm super relational, so I
like to be with people. And this sounds so silly,
but I was at the Ryman one night and I
(21:43):
heard Hardy play at a writer's in the round at
the Ryman, and he sang his song Sober You, Sober Me.
I forget the title of it, don't tell him, but
in it he has a line that says there's healing
in the lonely. And when I heard him say that line,
I was like, man, that sounds like what therapist is
talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
If there's healing in the lonely, how can I find that?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So I became super intentional about my time that I
was alone and when I started feeling lonely and being
able to identify what that was. And for me, the
time I get the loneliness. The loneliest is when we're
transitioning from day and to night it's like that twilight hour.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I'm fine. During the day. I get to night, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
But that transition was really tough, and I think the
healing for me and the loneliness was me getting to
know myself again, and not just getting to know myself,
but to realize how much I liked myself and I
enjoyed myself, and I was really fun and I'm thoughtful
and I'm just easy to be around. And I think
(22:44):
I dealt with the loneliness by getting to know myself again,
and then in getting to know myself again, it made
me braver to reach out to other people when I
had those evenings that I didn't want to be by myself,
and to say like, hey, let's meet for a happy hour,
or you want to go see a movie, and be
able to keep myself busy in a healthy way, not
in an avoidant way, but in a healthy way. And
(23:07):
then from that loneliness, I might have probably dated a
little too soon, but I think I had so much
rejection and abandonment from my divorce that I just thought,
is anyone going to ever want to be with me?
So I might have dated a little too soon, not
to the point that I regret it. But you know,
I never called a date by their name to my girlfriends.
(23:29):
I would be like, oh, I went out with the
police officer, and and my girlfriend wud be like, oh,
is he the one with three kids? No, that's a
real estate agent. Oh is he the one who? And
I called them by their occupation?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Why?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
So that was kind of because then I didn't have
to attach to the fact that it was actually a
person I was spending time with.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
So I think I dated too soon. What to the
person you were dating? You said their name to them?
I said their name? Hey, so a real estate agent,
what do you want to do tonight?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I called them by their name, just not when I
talked about them. I did a lot of first dates,
not a lot of second dates.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
On apps or how are you meeting these people?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I had lots of setups, and then I tried a
couple apps.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I'm not doing anything right now.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
I just got out of like a sixteen month fifteen
sixteen month relationship that was really great and wonderful. It's
just the timing was off. So I'm ready to start
dating again. I think the biggest thing I learned is
that at my age, I'm in my late forties. Everyone
has baggage. So that's just the reality is everyone has baggage.
We have to be able to discern what is the
(24:32):
baggage that we're willing to deal with and what kind
of work have they done around their baggage. And for me,
there is that if I don't repair it, I'm going
to repeat it. And I don't want to repeat the
mistakes of my past, and I don't want to repeat
the enabling and I don't want to repeat the dysfunction,
and I don't want to repeat the codependency. So what
I don't repair, I repeat. So that allowed me to
(24:52):
really think about what do I want out of a
healthy relationship and be able to spend time building into
those things. When we talk about emotional health and emotional
intelligence and emotionally stronger me creates an emotionally stronger we.
So if I'm going to show up emotionally stronger and
I am therefore attracting people who are emotionally stronger, it
(25:13):
helps create that emotionally stronger we. So those are kind
of some of the guidelines that I've dealt with in dating. Honestly, Amy,
I think I did start to trust my gut in
recognizing red flags quicker than recognizing green flags, so I
would be able to leave and just think like, oh,
this this is I'm not a fan of, rather than
(25:34):
being like, this is a quality about this person I enjoyed.
This person is probably not the one for me, but
I appreciated that they were very thoughtful in their language.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So I think even sometimes looking for.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Those green flags in dating brings a hope about meeting
somebody who does end up being a good match for us.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I'm loving all your sayings that say that we one again.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And emotionally stronger me creates an emotionally stronger.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
We film, which is again doing that work on yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, and it's in any relationship. So that can be
in a working relationship with coworkers, it can be with
your kids, it can be of girlfriends, anytime you're dealing
with somebody, you know, I mean, you and I have
both done enough of the work that when we're engaging
with someone who has also done a lot of work
on themselves and has a self awareness, we recognize it. So, yeah,
(26:23):
an emotionally stronger me creates an emotionally stronger we.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, that is true with any relationship. I realize sometimes
when I was not. Sometimes there was a little season
where I was having a difficult time at work, but
I think other things in my life were bleeding into it. Yeah,
and I wanted to blame other things, like, well, it's
because this at works. And then as I continue to
do more work on myself, I realized that I was
(26:48):
the problem. And so when I was able to change
my perspective, my attitude, do that work on myself. And
it's almost like just with a snap of a finger,
when it clicked, it click yes, And now things that
I used to see at work that would, you know,
maybe bug me or frustrate me or whatever, like I
don't even see it. Almost it's like, oh my god. Well, actually,
(27:11):
because I have the awareness, I actually do see it.
And I'm like, huh, that's so interesting that used to
like send me into a tail spin and then have
a domino effect on the rest of my day.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Right, And I'm not speaking about any.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Particular person or thing, So don't if you're a listener
to the Bobby Bone Show, this isn't anything really about that.
This was really my own stuff and it was bleeding
into work where I thought it was a work thing,
but there's really a me thing. And once I did
the work, the energy shifted. Yeah, and it's like, yes,
some of that stuff was still there, but it's.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Not not bothering anybody.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
It was only bothering me, right because I was the problem.
And so yeah, that could be in a friendship, it
could be in a romantic relationship, it could be with
your kids. There's just a pattern sometimes that shows up
and you have to realize, Okay, what role am I
playing in this pattern?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
And how can I break it right? For sure?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
A couple of times you mentioned being thankful for certain things,
and you know, I think when you go through a
difficult sison sometimes it's hard to really be thankful for anything. Yes,
So how does gratitude play a role in any of
this for you?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
And what when were.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
You able to look back and really be thankful for
what happened and where you are now?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, gratitude is huge for me. I have a whole
chapter about it.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I used to say to my kids, are you being
grumbly hateful or humbly grateful?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You got another sign that's like a song from a
VBS or something. But I know that they were annoyed
by it and probably rolled their eyes. But I think
I got to the point when life, you know, was
honestly probably at the lowest. That same September that my
ex husband resigned from his position, I just had this
moment where nothing around me felt good, but I knew.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
That I still believe God was good.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
So I just kept like wrestling with that if nothing
feels good and I believe God is so good, what
does that mean? And I just pulled a journal off
a shelf. I think it was a freebie that came
in some packaging. I took an orange sharpie and I
just wrote focus on the Good on the front. I
didn't know it was a gratitude practice. I didn't know
to refer to it as gratitude. But at the end
of each day, I made myself write down three to
(29:19):
five things of where I saw the goodness of God
in my everyday life because at that point, well and
still now, but at that point i'd gotten to where
it is one day at a time, if I can
just survive today became my goal. So if I got
to the end of the day and I could reflect
back on some good parts of my day, then that
felt rewarding for me, and that felt like a way
(29:40):
to celebrate that I had made it through another really crappy,
terrible day, and it was small things like maybe ice
cream on the porch with my kids, or got a
new pair of glasses. I remember one time writing down
bought a new hairdryer, and I thought I've reached the
bottom when the number one thing on my gratitude lived
(30:00):
is a new hair dryer. And then I recognized, you
know what, There's going to be more new in my life.
This is just a new hair dryer, but there's going
to be other new things to come. And that perspective
shift of practicing gratitude allowed me to see that there
was good still going on around me, and God was
still good and showing up in ways in my life,
(30:23):
and that was a huge shift in the way that
I viewed my future as I moved forward.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
You mentioned doing three to five things, which right in
the middle of that is four, So we'll do this
is a good time for you know currently, what are
you thankful for?
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Four things? Yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I did that this morning in my journal and didn't
even think about the fact you're probably going to ask
me to do four.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Things gratitude today or you did four today or three
or five I did today? I think I had four shadowing. Okay, yes, foreshadowing.
I got a new coffee maker.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Darren Amazon Prime Sale, and I'm loving my new coffee.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
So that was one of my things. One of my
things is just this.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
This is a unique summer I feel like for my
family because my oldest son's going to be a senior
in college and my middle son is going to be
a freshman in college. So in two weeks I take
them to school, and I've realized that this summer might
be the last time we live like this, because when
he finishes college, I don't know for sure he's coming
back to Nashville what he wants to do. He does
(31:20):
not want to move back in with mom. That part
is clear, and that's fine. That's you know, He's doing
what I expect him to do. But I'm super grateful
that the four of us have had this summer together
because I've gotten to see how my kids interact as friends,
not just as brothers, but also as friends. So super
grateful to have that this summer. Last night, I saw
(31:40):
a movie with my oldest son and I went in
to say good night to my youngest and when I
opened the door, he said good night, Mama, And mama
does not always happen, but when he says, or any
of them say mama, that just like does me in.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
So that was one of the things on my list,
called me mama.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
And then one of my kids came in last night
i'd actually I'm sleep, woke me up and crawled in
bed with me to tell me about his evening.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And I'm like, how many you.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Know teenage early twenty boys crawling bed with their mom
to tell them about their night. So I wrote down
that I was grateful for that, even though he woke
me up and I did not act very grateful at
the moment, it was still just a sweet moment.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Love that.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
And you know what I realized about my parenting post
divorce is that I'm less rigid and just more real.
I can't really think of a way to describe it
because cool keeps coming to mind, and that just sounds lame,
But I do think that that's the case. Like I'm
still firm and in my mom role, but little things
(32:38):
don't bother me like they used to, and I really
want to focus more on connection and communication more than anything.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Do you relate to what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, my kids would totally say I was much more
relaxed post divorce and more fun post divorce. When I
moved into the house that the boys and I live in,
I did set some probably values that I wanted to
invest in when you know, it's US four, no more.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
And one of them was that this is a house.
They're saying, yeah, that's US four, that's for no more.
I love that. Noted. One of the things was I
want this to be a house of truth.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And I just became super honest with like, we have
all lived through a bunch of lies. We have lived
through some deceit and manipulation. That is not how we
live anymore. This is a house house of truth, and
as long as you're telling me the truth, we can
deal with it.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
If you're gonna lie, we can't.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And I'm not going to say it worked itself out perfectly,
because there's obviously our bumps in the road, and they
are teenage boys, and but truth telling has become a
value that I feel like all three of them grasp onto.
And I was even having a conversation with one of
my sons this week having to process like the difference
(33:51):
between a justified truth and what actual truth is.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
So I just said a lot like no, we don't
tell lies in this house.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
We tell the truth, and then would model that even
when it's hard.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So it is funny.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
A couple of weeks ago, we were having a conversation,
and this is how you know you've created a culture
that is successful is when they kind of throw it
back in your face. But we were having this conversation
and one of them said something and I was like,
there are just certain things as mom you can leave out.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I just don't need to hear it.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And he said house of truth and I'm like, oh, okay,
let's throw that back at me in a moment where
I'm like, no, don't say that. So yeah, that was
just something that was really important to us. And I
think that they feel safe to share what's going on
in their lives because this is a house of truth.
And they've called me out on that when they've felt
(34:42):
like I'm not being honest. My honesty would be more
of their certain things. You know, they don't want to
know about their mom dating, so I would keep that private.
I'm not keeping it a secret, but it's private. And
one of my sons pretty early on said, like, you
said you'd tell us the truth, and you're dating and
you aren't talking to us out it.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
We know he's a real estate agent, I know he's
a police officer. But at that.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Point I had to say, well, what I think is
happening is that we have different Like we were defining
the same term differently. So for me, when I say dating,
I mean I'm in a relationship with someone, and when
you say dating, you mean I'm going on dates. He
was like, yes, so that's what you're doing. I was like, yes,
that's what I'm doing. This is just a misunderstanding. We
have miscommunicated on the definition of this word. So I've yeah,
(35:30):
I think I've just tried to create because I don't
feel rigid anymore and I don't feel stressed anymore.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I can't, I couldn't explain it. But when you said
relaxed and fun like that was it. But again, there's
still this my house, we will respect this is what
I'm doing. Like there's a difference, but there is this.
I don't know when a family goes through a lot
and it's not what was modeled to me as a
child in my home. Yeah, but yeah, something broke us
(35:57):
all down. And Ben's the same way with them. I mean,
and we we co parent amicably and it's very easy,
but we're both on that same page of like, listen,
we would rather our kids be able to come to
us and tell us anything, because that was just not
the culture in our homes.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Growing up, like we could. He's like, I didn't tell
my parents anything or not.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
I mean, his parents are amazing as we're mine, but
just wasn't this open invitation to talk about anything for
fear of XYZ. And so it's almost like when you're
something about what my home went through, I can only
speak for my home what we went through as a family.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
It was like, okay, yeah, well.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
All right, we're just not going to waste time on
being rigid or complicated in that way anymore.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Let's be relaxed, more fun, Let's just be open. Let's share.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
You can company with anything. There's no judgment, it's not
going to shock me. Like I'm also going to guide
you or try to guide you or be the best
mom to you that I can because I care about
you and.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
But like, let's tell each other things. Yeah, it's way
more fun. It's way more fun.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's so exhausting being rich, Yes, it's so exhausting, Yeah
it is. And I think that relaxed nature just allows
me to parent in a way and you to parent
in a way where they want to tell us what's
going on in their life.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
So, yes, we are the cool parents, Amy Cool.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Do you have any final advice to wrap up, like
the divorce talk for anybody that is facing it or
facing the co parenting stuff? Are there resources or things
that you recommend? Obviously I recommend better than okay by
Brandy Wilson.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I will say when it comes to co parenting, one
of the things that was helpful to me is our
communication is basically email and that's it. So I realize
in that communication, am I responding to my ex husband?
Or am I responding to my kid's father? And if
I can separate those roles of like okay, this is
a response from my kids to my kid's father, that
takes away some of the emotion and the hurt that
(37:51):
comes with being my ex husband. So if you can
separate that sometimes that helps remove some of that frustration
and pain. Reframing we're talking to reframes and you're talking too,
So that's a little nugget. I think My other is
just take one day at a time, because you can
get so overwhelmed thinking what is this going to look
like in six months? What is this going to look
(38:12):
like in six years when I'm sending two kids to college,
And it is about making it through that one day
at a time. As far as resources and places to go,
I mean, I tell everyone to find a great therapist,
So I think that's the number one thing you can do,
and then lean into your support system, and if you
don't have that, reach out to the people around you
(38:32):
and ask for it. I think we want to isolate
because out of embarrassment and shame, and then people are
going to ask questions and we often don't have answers
to those questions, so it overwhelms us. But you also
can reach out to those people and if they ask
a question, you.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Can say I don't have an answer for it right now.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Can we just have coffee and talk about what else.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Is going on in life?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
But definitely try to lean into that support system because
it is a time in your life.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You do not need to be isolated.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
You need to make sure you are seeing other people
and engaging with other people. Lisa Turkhurs wrote a book
called Forgiving What you Can't Forget, which is an excellent book.
I read that with a group of single moms during
the pandemic. We did a book club on Zoom with it,
and it was an excellent resource because lots of times
the other questions I get or how do you forgive?
(39:21):
And I think that's a great one when it comes
to being able to forgive. And then her last book
is called Boundaries or Goodbyes, and that's a great one too,
boundaries or or or Okay, were you good at boundaries?
Before any of this, I thought I was amy and yeah,
(39:41):
and now are you Yeah, I'm way better. Yeah, I
think I'm way better at what I will and won't allow.
So I think for me, I always looked at boundaries
as more of a time frame of like I need
this coffee to end at this time because then I
have this to go to and I've probably thought about
it more entire management, which clearly I was told I
(40:02):
wasn't good at, but now I am actually great.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
You were on time here, thank you. That counts hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
And then you got to talking, and I delayed you
and you had something else, and you were respectful to
call whomever and say, hey, this is my new plan.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So you're I feel like you're great with time management.
Thank you. I'm courteous.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
But yes, I think for boundaries, I had to reframe
how I allow people to treat me and what I
will and won't put up with. So I don't think
I saw boundaries as more emotional boundaries. They were more
physical and tangible boundaries in my mind. So yes, I'm
way better at them now.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
I pulled up the Hearty song and it's signed signed
sober You, Ye, signed commas sober you. Because what he
would do well in the song is he's writing a
note to himself and puts it on the fridge when
he's sobered, so that when he's been drinking he can
read it and be reminded of what he was saying
to himself when he was clear.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yes, yes, not impaired.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
And so yeah, the line is, don't think about it, mister,
don't even touch your phone. I know you think you
miss her, but I promise you you don't.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
There's healing in the lonely.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Sit back, kick off your boots and you'll thank me
in the morning like you always do.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Signed sober you. Yes, I love that song.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I was with another divorced single mom at that benefit,
and when he's saying it, we were both like minds
blown with there's healing in the lonely Oh that means
I'm gonna have to do it.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, take a little bit of work, but you see
the fruit of your labor.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Sure worth it, Yes, worth. It wouldn't change my life
for anything.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Yeah, And I'm gonna the how you do the we're
a family of four.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Forget that other guy no more. I don't know what
was saying, us four no more? For us four no more.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
So I like that just in building that new life, Yeah,
being proactive and not wallowing in like what was supposed
to be or what should have been.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Sure, there's grief there, yeah, of course. Yes.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
In order to move forward, you have to start living
in the now, yes, sure, and then having visions.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
For your future.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
But I feel like if we are focused too much
on our future, then we start the future tripping stuff.
And then if we're living in the past, that's not
helping our new life that we're trying to create it
all And so it seems to me that, yeah, you
realize pretty early on.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I've got to be present.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
I got to be present with my boys, and we're
gonna build our new life, our new traditions, our new things.
And you just had to be proactive, yes, for sure,
And when you're going through a lot, that's sometimes hard
to do because you can feel just paralyzed.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Oh but trust me, I had days I did not
want to get out of bed, and days I took
through his school and went back to bed. So yes,
depression an anxiety was huge during those times. Yeah, but
overall I got.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Up most days.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Amy, Well, thank you for sharing your story and I'm
proud of you for out the book when the time
was right for you and being a resource for so
many people and being so capable and talented.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I appreciate it no leader and on time.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I love it all the positivity, give me the positive affirmations, Yeah,
because I don't want those lies in your head to
creep back up, bring back in those voices.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
But now you know, I mean, you've done the work,
But it is interesting no matter how much work you do,
they still pop up. Yeah, just less and less that
you have the awareness and you read it.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yes, boom, yep. The minute it.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Comes in it goes bye. So better than okay is
the book?
Speaker 1 (43:36):
You can get it and read it.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
However, I have downloaded the audio version and so you
can listen to it, but that's not gonna be Brandy's voice.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yes, now I hear she did a lovely job. Whoever
recorded she did a lovely job.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
But I'm just if you're listening to this podcast and
then you decide to go download it, you're like, wait,
am I listening to the right book?
Speaker 1 (43:52):
This sounds like a different person.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
It is the same book, and it's all about finding
hope and healing after your marriage ends. Thank you Brandy
for sharing. And where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
I love Brandy Wilson dot com for my website Brandy
is spelled with an eye, and on Instagram, I'm love
Brandy Wilson, so I can be found both of those places.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Why the love?
Speaker 2 (44:13):
For years I was Brandy and boys because I have
three sons and I like alliteration. And I got to
that point where one of the things I did post
divorce was I went to get a coaching certification because
I was talking to so many women and I'm like,
knowledge is power.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
If I'm going to talk to all these women about divorce,
I want.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
To be able to give them great quality feedback. So
when I got a coaching my first coaching certification, I
have a couple now, I just thought I'm going to
rebrand because I need a single mom's side hustle. So
when I did some rebranding, I actually named my business
Brandy and Boys and switched to Love Brandy Wilson.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
For a couple of reasons.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I feel like it's almost endearing to who I am.
And then I think when I talk about what love
looks like years ago, I love more tattoo on my wrist.
And I just like, if we approach situations with love,
the outcome is usually way more positive than approaching it
with a different stance.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
And I think, for ma'am, if I'm going to talk
about love, I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Talk about how to be healthy in a loving relationship.
And it just kind of stuck so well, I love it.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
I'm so glad you do.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
And Brandy with an I, Yes, I think that's important.
They might be like br A in d y.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, they won't find me there, Brandy with an eye. Oh,
and then what about the Wilson. Last question.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Sorry, Yeah, I'm intrigued because I'm Amy Brown and that's
been's last name and I'm keeping that and you kept Wilson.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah. I actually had been Wilson longer than I had
been my maiden name Wheeler when I got divorced, and
then my kids are all Wilson. So I had been
a school teacher for years, and it was always a
little confusing of like, who's mom is this when the
last names didn't match. And I think because my kids
were all Wilson and that's how I've been known my
(45:56):
entire adult life, it just seemed like more of a
natural fit.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Okay. I get asked that a lot. It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
A lot of people are like, are you changing your name?
And I'm like, if I change my name, no one
would know what else.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
I know me professionally be like four things with Amy? Yeah,
who is that? Well?
Speaker 3 (46:13):
I hope y'all are having the day that you need
to have again. Check out Brandy's book Better Than Okay,
and remember, no matter what you're going through in life,
maybe it's not even a divorce, but you listen to
this entire episode, which would be cool, and you're like,
I have no idea what they're talking about, but maybe
you're listening for a reason, Like you've got a friend
that could be walking through it soon, or a loved one,
and there's something in knowing that you're not alone, Yes
(46:34):
you're sure, that validation. It could be comforting to have that.
So thanks for listening, and again, whatever you're going through,
I love that saying you're better than okay.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yes you will be, you will be okay. Bye.
Up little food for yourself life.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh it's pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hey, it's pretty beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thing beautiful that for a little more, said he your
kicking with full thing with Amy Brown.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Happy Thursday, four Things, Amy here, and my guest today
is Brandy Wilson, who is a friend but also well.
At a point in time, I went to the church
in which you were the wife of the pastor that
was there, and we'll get into some of that, but
you're over because you wrote a book.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's called Better.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Than Okay, and I love that title so much. We
were talking before we started recording, and you know, you
had mentioned that people sometimes ask you your book is
about the divorce that you had from said pastor, and
that divorce is not the end of your story, and
that someone would come to you and say, is this
going to get any better? Am I going to be okay?
(01:12):
This feels so, you know the opposite of okay? Yes,
And I have been there, and you had already been
through the weeds and you're on the other side and
you were able to look at them and say it's
going to be better than okay.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, You're going to be better than okay, Like life
is going to be better than okay. You are going
to be better than okay. Yeah, And I think that's
just such a message of hope because in the midst
when you're in the weeds of a divorce and there's
so much loss around you, you just want somebody to say, like,
you're going to be okay, You're going to make it,
(01:43):
keep going, You've got this well.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Obviously, this story involves multiple people, and when you set
out to write a book, that's likely very therapeutic and
healing for you, but also is going to be very
therapeutic and healing for other people in knowing that they're
not alone. When did you decide that you were going
to write a book about your story? And then how
did you decide what to say what not to say?
(02:08):
And this is something that unfolded years ago, and it
was at the talk of the town.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yes, just to give a little backstory, I married my
college sweetheart back in nineteen ninety six, and right out
of college, we had planted a church in Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
We were there for five years.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
We then moved to Nashville in two thousand and one,
and in two thousand and two planeted Cross Point Church,
which is still in Nashville. And going strong, and Crosspoint
was one of the fastest growing churches in the nation.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It could still be. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I'm not there, but at that time one of the
fastest growing churches in the nation. And after fourteen years
of serving there, twenty years of marriage, my husband at
the time just chose to walk away in September of
twenty sixteen. He left the church, he left the ministry
that we had started, He left our family, He walked
away from our marriage and life as I knew it ended.
(02:58):
I had planner amy, so this is not at all
what I foresaw in my plan of life. And I
was devastated. I felt damaged. I felt destroyed. It's easier
to tell you what I didn't feel rather than what
I was feeling, because life had just fallen apart, and
I think pretty quickly there were things I started to
(03:20):
recognize about the fact that I'd functioned in well. I
tried to function in a dysfunctional, unhealthy relationship for a
really long time. Stuff about the past continued to come
out where I realized that there was always a double
life being lived. There was always a third person in
our marriage the majority of the time, which is difficult
to reconcile what was real and what wasn't. And I
(03:43):
think pretty early on, I knew that I was not
going to allow this to destroy me, that I was
going to take care of myself and take care of
my kids. And I didn't know what that looked like,
but those became my two goals.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And I knew when I got to the end of.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Walking through the divorce that I wanted to be able
to look back at the way I'd handled myself and
be proud of how I'd walked through such a tragedy.
And I wanted to give my kids a picture of
strength and also faith of how I was taking one
day at a time and leaning on God in the
midst of it. My divorce was final in twenty sixteen.
(04:20):
I had thought about writing a book for a little while.
I just didn't know if it would be hard to
revisit it. I didn't know exactly what stance I would
take when I wrote the book. And then toward the
end of twenty twenty one, I had someone reach out
and I had put a proposal together and it had
gotten into their hands and they just asked if we
could talk.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
And at that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Point, the timing felt right, because I had done enough
work therapy, therapy, intensives. I had spent a lot of
time getting to know myself again, trusting my gut, leaning
into my intuition, working through that mind body connection that
I felt like, Okay, I'm going to be able to
write a book out of my scars and not my wounds.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
When we're wounded, we're bleeding, and it.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Needs attention, and things need to be repaired, and sometimes
things have to be removed. And I had done so
much healing work at that point I knew that what
I could do is write out of my scars and
therefore provide hope and healing for other people walking through
the stages of a divorce.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
When you said you wanted to write from scars and
not wounds, I love that so much. And I think
that that's wisdom right there, because sometimes we may even
think that we're healed, yes, right, yeah, just making for sure,
for sure that's a scar before, because yeah, you are
coming from a different place and you're sort of responding
to what you've been through instead of reacting right for sure,
(05:48):
And that can be in a confrontation that's in your
kitchen one day with something like should I do I
want to respond to this, or do I want to react?
Or it can be to a bigger picture thing like
this where right life has completely changed and there's multiple
people involved. And you know, it's interesting to use the
wound and scar analogy because I know also with this book, you're.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Not out for blood for anybody. I know your heart
and you're.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
In such a beautiful place, and I've loved watching you
fall into your lane and tap into your gifts and
be there for other people and women in particular, especially now,
women that have experienced the loss of a relationship like
this and you're providing them, yeah, the hope that's there
and sharing the different ways in which you were able
(06:34):
to heal and move forward with your life when it
completely crumbled.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I think in doing that, I had three kids watching
how I was going to react or respond, And I
did a week at on Site, which is right outside
of Nashville, Cumberland Furnace, and one of the therapists there, Bill Loki, said,
your child's resilience is directly impacted by the way the
parent chooses to own their story, understand their story, and
(07:00):
communicate their story. So at that point, when I kept saying, like,
I got to take care of my kids and myself.
I realized that taking care of my kids meant taking
care of myself first. So how could I own my
story what had happened to me, not deny it, not
avoid it, like own this is what happened to me,
Understand it, unpack the patterns, the habits, the unhealthy habits
(07:23):
that had gotten me there, and then how can I
communicate what I'm learning about myself and then even practice
healthy communication in the other relationships that are in my life.
So that kind of gave me a roadmap of how
I wanted to be able to move forward.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And it was a lot of trial and error.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I have not always gotten it right, but that just
allowed me to say, if I'm going to take care
of my kids and myself, this is what it looks
like to take care of myself first.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So, yeah, my.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Kids have watched every step of the way, as I've
done lots of counseling and therapy and yoga. And we
were talking about Ali Fallon earlier. They do a self
care work.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
That I ate this year.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I went the first time they did it, and it's amazing,
and that was even part of my healing to realize
that I could change the neurological pathways in my brain
to not hear the negative talk that I had been
experiencing for so long, so which it directly impacted your
self worth, directly impacted my self worth and what I
(08:22):
thought I was capable.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Of, and you're capable of so much.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
And that's what's beautiful to see, is because I think
that sometimes in certain relationships, depending on the dynamic, if
it's not a healthy dynamic, then someone's stunted, right.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
For sure, someone's totally stunted. And honestly, I was very
stunted because I was trying to function in an unhealthy dynamic.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I'm a two on the Enneagram, so I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I was just about to ask you your two number. Okay,
so you're a helper.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yes, I'm a helper. So I'm really good at taking
care of other people. And I'm a great support system
person and let me cheer you on and let me
show up and help you out. And I think I'd
spent so many years doing that that I'd lost who
I was. So honestly, one of the biggest parts of
my divorce and moving forward was identity and figuring out
who am I, what do I want my life.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
To look like? What does it look like for me
to think about dreaming again?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And instead of just supporting other people who are chasing
their dreams, began to chase some of my own.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What's almost like since your early twenties, Yes, you've not
just been, you know, a wife, but you're a pastor's wife.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, so that's a whole nother identity in itself. Just
living in a fish bowl amy and you know, just
knowing sometimes how your life is and then having to
walk through those double doors every.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Sunday yep, and being like.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Here we are, yes, stuff it all down, just to
like simplify it. I had three sons in five years,
so three boys. So by the time the third one
was born, it's like I had one that could hold
my hand or hold the stroller, one on my hip,
and then the baby and the stroller. And my goal
was to get to church on Sunday mornings without looking
(10:04):
like I was crazy because everyone was going in all
these different directions.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So I remember just telling.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Myself, if you can get there and get into childcare
and drop everyone off and still look like you're saying,
then that's a.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Win because everyone was watching.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
You knew as soon as I got out of the
car and I had the three blond haired boys, and
everyone knew that you were married to the pastor. And
they're watching to see how things happen, and lots of
them are cheering you on. But at the same time,
you're just aware you're being watched, and that's kind of
an uncomfortable spot to be in. How did the boys
feel about your writing a book? They were great about it, honestly,
they cheered me on. My oldest he was one of
(10:42):
the first people to read it, and he read every
page and called me when he finished.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
He actually it was so funny.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
He called me midway and he was like, You've got
some good stuff in this dating chapter that I'm going
to start remembering. I'm like, great, not sure how I
feel about that, but great. Then he called me at
the end, and the last story I tell is actually
an interaction between he and I that was really beautiful
because I think behind women asking am I going to
(11:10):
be okay? The second question they ask is will my
kids be okay? And I can tell you that I
never ever wanted divorce to be part of my personal story,
nor did I want it to be part of my
kid's story. I did not want it to be a
journey that they had to walk. And there's a lot
of stress and just trying to and we can never
(11:31):
get it perfect, but trying to do the best job
that we can raising our kids as we're grieving, as
they're grieving, as we're figuring it out again. And super
early on, I decided like I wanted to redefine family,
like nothing was missing. We were now a unit of four.
My sons are currently twenty two, nineteen, and seventeen, and
(11:55):
we were this unit of four that I referred to
as US four, but we were having to refigure out
how our family functioned.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I chose to sell my.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
House that I had lived in for twelve years, bought
a new house for us, started creating new memories with
the four of us, new traditions around the holidays, and
just really focused. I don't even know that I said
it out loud as much as I was just aware
as a mom, one of my goals was to redefine
family like nothing was missing. And a couple of years ago,
I was speaking at a conference out west, and my
(12:26):
oldest son is in College at Birmingham, and he had said,
can I watch you your talk? I was like sure,
so I sent him the link so he could stream it.
And in that talk, I actually revisit a moment when
the four of us were at the beach together, and
we're sitting by a fire outside at the beach and
we just had this really wonderful week just the four
of us on vacation, like family vacation, us with one
(12:50):
mom and you know, single mom and three kids and
studying by that fire and just realizing like, I did it.
We did it. We redefined family and nothing is missing.
We don't go on this trip and think like, oh,
this would be better if we go on this trip
and enjoy being together, the four of us. So I'm
retelling the story and I say like, I didn't want
(13:12):
divorce to be part of my story. I didn't want
to be part of my kid's story. However, at this
point in my life, I wouldn't change anything.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I love where we are, I love who we are
as a family.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And when I wrapped up that talk, I went backstage
to the green room and I picked up my phone
and I had like seven text messages from my oldest
son and they were super sweet. It was like, I
like the outfit you have on and that joke was funny,
and the audience, they're loving you. And then I got
to the last two text messages. I have goosebumps every
time I talk about it. But the last two text
(13:44):
messages said I couldn't agree more. And then the last
one said, I wouldn't change our lives for anything.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And I think just.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
To know that my kids recognize that we went through
a lot together and we chose to allow that to
bring us together rather than push us apart, and we're
actually cemented together. You know. I would say initially I
keep my nest really tight because we had been through
so much.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I was super protective.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And we've been able to expand our nest and let
other people close to our family, and that feels good too.
So I think to have made it through what we
went through as a family unit, man, I'm just super
grateful that they recognize that it took a lot of
work from all of us to be able to redefine
family like nothing was missing.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
And similar to you, I never want a divorce for myself,
for my kids. And there's often this question I feel
like for anybody, regardless of your faith background, it's not
what you want. If you've set out to get married,
it's like, okay, through sickness and in health, then exactly
the thick and thin. I don't remember what all the
vowels are, but you're basically vowing to stay together no
(14:56):
matter what, for richer, for poor, all that. But you know,
you question like did we do the right thing? Or
did I do whoever's the decision maker is like was
this the right thing? Or what could I have done differently?
Or what could I do better? Or is there still
something I can do? But someone may know deep down Okay, no,
I really think this may be the path for me,
(15:16):
but I have so much fear attached to it because
of the stigma or there's shame. What do you have
to say for either fellow divorce moms like me that
are already have made that decision or women that maybe
or moms too maybe on the fence of like there's
something better for me, yes, but they feel like if
they go through with something like that, that it's this
(15:38):
extreme failure and their life is forever ruined.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, it was so interesting, Amy, when I got divorced
and I started meeting with other women who were divorced.
If we were in public at a restaurant or a
coffee shop, it's when they started to tell their story.
They'd say and then in you know, four years ago,
I got divorced, and they'd almost drop their voice and
bring it back up. And that's when I started recogniz like, Okay,
there's a lot of shame that goes with divorce. And
(16:04):
I do think there is that question. I asked myself
the same thing, like have I made the right decision
in order to move forward with this? And I think
there are a couple of things that goes on there.
I think one of the things that was super valuable
to me in dealing with the shame is to recognize
whose voice I heard in my head.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And I would hear these phrases.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Like Brandy, you're not a good time manager, and Brandy,
why would you start your own business?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
You're not a great leader? And do people really like you?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
And maybe you just create more chaos than you actually
bring value to a situation. So I would hear all
these voices and there is a moment where I just
I stopped and I was like, whose voice do I
hear in my head, and I identified it as my
ex husband, And I think.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
We all have that voice. Maybe not all of.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Us, but a large majority of the population has that voice.
And they can trace it back to maybe a coach
in elementary school or a teacher, or maybe an ex
boyfriend or girlfriend, but a parent, someone that had value
in their life that spoke something that they still continue
to hear in their head. So for me, it became
identifying that voice. And then because I have the faith
(17:14):
I have, it's like I want it to be God's
voice in my head. So I started, you know, recording
in my journal what were the voices I didn't want
to hear? And then what does God say about me?
So what is the truth about who I am? And
then I put little post it notes. I still have
one in my primary bathroom now that says, whose voice
do I hear? Let it be God's and just that
(17:34):
reminder of man, my ex husband took enough of my
life and my mental space and all of that he
doesn't get anymore. I am going to know who I
am based on my relationship with God and how He
has created me, and that's going to be the truth
that I cling to.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
When it comes to your faith during that time when
everything was falling apart, I feel like some people may
go the opposite direction, or I may lean more into it.
What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I went from being surrounded by thousands of people all
the time.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
The church was very large.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So I went from like legitimately feeling like life was
huge and there were people everywhere too. It shrunk down
to I talked to three people and my therapist on
a regular basis.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So honestly, because.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Life's shrunk, I spend a lot of time alone and
talk to God a ton. Now I do want to validate.
I was angry, I was frustrated. I didn't understand why
he wasn't answering prayers. I remember laying face down on
my bedroom begging for him to heal my marriage and
just give me one ounce of hope and that not happening,
(18:51):
and being able to just show up to God in
this way that was super authentic with where I was.
For me helped create a secure attachment. And we talk
a lot about attachment and parenting. It's also called bonding science,
and what attachment between a parent and a child looks like.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I think that was probably the first time for
me in my.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Forties that I actually leaned into my relationship with God
in an authentic way, because I showed up angry, mad,
questioning him, doubting if he was going to show up.
And you know, when the person who's supposed to love
you the most leaves, you wonder if anyone will love you.
And God was really gracious to give me super small
(19:35):
ways and then large ways that reminded me he loved
me and he was taking care of me and Amy.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
It could be in the middle of.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Me having a fit of like, why won't you just
answer this prayer? You've reconciled all these people I know
their marriages through similar stories, why aren't you fixing mine?
And he would just nudge me, and I think I
got to the point where I realized, Okay, I've been
asking him to.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Heal my marriage. He really wants to do is heal me?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And that was huge for me to realize, like, Okay,
healing can happen in my life. Might not be my marriage,
but healing can happen for me. Restoration can happen for me.
Might not happen in my marriage, it can still happen
for me. And to be able to realize, like, Okay,
he has shown up, and he's shown up when I'm
mad and angry, and he has stayed through all of that.
(20:24):
So I think his presence to me during all of
that doubt and questioning made him a safe place for me.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
To be able to go to.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
You know, a second ago, you mentioned like healing is possible,
and you realized that that was going to be the
case for you. You were going to be able to heal,
and that your faith was strengthened. And really, when you
have a relationship like that with God, like you're never
really alone. But chapter six of your book, it starts
off like this, I've never missed my ex, but I
(20:54):
felt immensely lonely, so talk about how loneliness both hurts
and heal.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I think loneliness is huge, and it's the piece we don't.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Expect because I did have great support system of friends
around me, and I had my kids the majority of
the time, but even sometimes when I'm surrounded by people,
I felt lonely. And what I had to recognize for
me is that I had been lonely for a really
long time in my marriage. So I had to recognize
that and realized that I had been filling that hole
(21:23):
with other things in order to not feel that loneliness.
And I remember my therapist saying to me, like, you
need to set in your loneliness, and I'm like, no,
I don't want to do that. That sounds miserable. I
am definitely an introvert, but I'm super relational, so I
like to be with people. And this sounds so silly,
but I was at the Ryman one night and I
(21:43):
heard Hardy play at a writer's in the round at
the Ryman, and he sang his song Sober You, Sober Me.
I forget the title of it, don't tell him, but
in it he has a line that says there's healing
in the lonely. And when I heard him say that line,
I was like, man, that sounds like what therapist is
talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
If there's healing in the lonely, how can I find that?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So I became super intentional about my time that I
was alone and when I started feeling lonely and being
able to identify what that was. And for me, the
time I get the loneliness. The loneliest is when we're
transitioning from day and to night it's like that twilight hour.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I'm fine. During the day. I get to night, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
But that transition was really tough, and I think the
healing for me and the loneliness was me getting to
know myself again, and not just getting to know myself,
but to realize how much I liked myself and I
enjoyed myself, and I was really fun and I'm thoughtful
and I'm just easy to be around. And I think
(22:44):
I dealt with the loneliness by getting to know myself again,
and then in getting to know myself again, it made
me braver to reach out to other people when I
had those evenings that I didn't want to be by myself,
and to say like, hey, let's meet for a happy hour,
or you want to go see a movie, and be
able to keep myself busy in a healthy way, not
in an avoidant way, but in a healthy way. And
(23:07):
then from that loneliness, I might have probably dated a
little too soon, but I think I had so much
rejection and abandonment from my divorce that I just thought,
is anyone going to ever want to be with me?
So I might have dated a little too soon, not
to the point that I regret it. But you know,
I never called a date by their name to my girlfriends.
(23:29):
I would be like, oh, I went out with the
police officer, and and my girlfriend wud be like, oh,
is he the one with three kids? No, that's a
real estate agent. Oh is he the one who? And
I called them by their occupation?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Why?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
So that was kind of because then I didn't have
to attach to the fact that it was actually a
person I was spending time with.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
So I think I dated too soon. What to the
person you were dating? You said their name to them?
I said their name? Hey, so a real estate agent,
what do you want to do tonight?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I called them by their name, just not when I
talked about them. I did a lot of first dates,
not a lot of second dates.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
On apps or how are you meeting these people?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I had lots of setups, and then I tried a
couple apps.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I'm not doing anything right now.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
I just got out of like a sixteen month fifteen
sixteen month relationship that was really great and wonderful. It's
just the timing was off. So I'm ready to start
dating again. I think the biggest thing I learned is
that at my age, I'm in my late forties. Everyone
has baggage. So that's just the reality is everyone has baggage.
We have to be able to discern what is the
(24:32):
baggage that we're willing to deal with and what kind
of work have they done around their baggage. And for me,
there is that if I don't repair it, I'm going
to repeat it. And I don't want to repeat the
mistakes of my past, and I don't want to repeat
the enabling and I don't want to repeat the dysfunction,
and I don't want to repeat the codependency. So what
I don't repair, I repeat. So that allowed me to
(24:52):
really think about what do I want out of a
healthy relationship and be able to spend time building into
those things. When we talk about emotional health and emotional
intelligence and emotionally stronger me creates an emotionally stronger we.
So if I'm going to show up emotionally stronger and
I am therefore attracting people who are emotionally stronger, it
(25:13):
helps create that emotionally stronger we. So those are kind
of some of the guidelines that I've dealt with in dating. Honestly, Amy,
I think I did start to trust my gut in
recognizing red flags quicker than recognizing green flags, so I
would be able to leave and just think like, oh,
this this is I'm not a fan of, rather than
(25:34):
being like, this is a quality about this person I enjoyed.
This person is probably not the one for me, but
I appreciated that they were very thoughtful in their language.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So I think even sometimes looking for.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Those green flags in dating brings a hope about meeting
somebody who does end up being a good match for us.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I'm loving all your sayings that say that we one again.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And emotionally stronger me creates an emotionally stronger.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
We film, which is again doing that work on yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, and it's in any relationship. So that can be
in a working relationship with coworkers, it can be with
your kids, it can be of girlfriends, anytime you're dealing
with somebody, you know, I mean, you and I have
both done enough of the work that when we're engaging
with someone who has also done a lot of work
on themselves and has a self awareness, we recognize it. So, yeah,
(26:23):
an emotionally stronger me creates an emotionally stronger we.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, that is true with any relationship. I realize sometimes
when I was not. Sometimes there was a little season
where I was having a difficult time at work, but
I think other things in my life were bleeding into it. Yeah,
and I wanted to blame other things, like, well, it's
because this at works. And then as I continue to
do more work on myself, I realized that I was
(26:48):
the problem. And so when I was able to change
my perspective, my attitude, do that work on myself. And
it's almost like just with a snap of a finger,
when it clicked, it click yes, And now things that
I used to see at work that would, you know,
maybe bug me or frustrate me or whatever, like I
don't even see it. Almost it's like, oh my god. Well, actually,
(27:11):
because I have the awareness, I actually do see it.
And I'm like, huh, that's so interesting that used to
like send me into a tail spin and then have
a domino effect on the rest of my day.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Right, And I'm not speaking about any.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Particular person or thing, So don't if you're a listener
to the Bobby Bone Show, this isn't anything really about that.
This was really my own stuff and it was bleeding
into work where I thought it was a work thing,
but there's really a me thing. And once I did
the work, the energy shifted. Yeah, and it's like, yes,
some of that stuff was still there, but it's.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Not not bothering anybody.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
It was only bothering me, right because I was the problem.
And so yeah, that could be in a friendship, it
could be in a romantic relationship, it could be with
your kids. There's just a pattern sometimes that shows up
and you have to realize, Okay, what role am I
playing in this pattern?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
And how can I break it right? For sure?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
A couple of times you mentioned being thankful for certain things,
and you know, I think when you go through a
difficult sison sometimes it's hard to really be thankful for anything. Yes,
So how does gratitude play a role in any of
this for you?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
And what when were.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
You able to look back and really be thankful for
what happened and where you are now?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, gratitude is huge for me. I have a whole
chapter about it.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I used to say to my kids, are you being
grumbly hateful or humbly grateful?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You got another sign that's like a song from a
VBS or something. But I know that they were annoyed
by it and probably rolled their eyes. But I think
I got to the point when life, you know, was
honestly probably at the lowest. That same September that my
ex husband resigned from his position, I just had this
moment where nothing around me felt good, but I knew.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
That I still believe God was good.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
So I just kept like wrestling with that if nothing
feels good and I believe God is so good, what
does that mean? And I just pulled a journal off
a shelf. I think it was a freebie that came
in some packaging. I took an orange sharpie and I
just wrote focus on the Good on the front. I
didn't know it was a gratitude practice. I didn't know
to refer to it as gratitude. But at the end
of each day, I made myself write down three to
(29:19):
five things of where I saw the goodness of God
in my everyday life because at that point, well and
still now, but at that point i'd gotten to where
it is one day at a time, if I can
just survive today became my goal. So if I got
to the end of the day and I could reflect
back on some good parts of my day, then that
felt rewarding for me, and that felt like a way
(29:40):
to celebrate that I had made it through another really crappy,
terrible day, and it was small things like maybe ice
cream on the porch with my kids, or got a
new pair of glasses. I remember one time writing down
bought a new hairdryer, and I thought I've reached the
bottom when the number one thing on my gratitude lived
(30:00):
is a new hair dryer. And then I recognized, you
know what, There's going to be more new in my life.
This is just a new hair dryer, but there's going
to be other new things to come. And that perspective
shift of practicing gratitude allowed me to see that there
was good still going on around me, and God was
still good and showing up in ways in my life,
(30:23):
and that was a huge shift in the way that
I viewed my future as I moved forward.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
You mentioned doing three to five things, which right in
the middle of that is four, So we'll do this
is a good time for you know currently, what are
you thankful for?
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Four things? Yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I did that this morning in my journal and didn't
even think about the fact you're probably going to ask
me to do four.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Things gratitude today or you did four today or three
or five I did today? I think I had four shadowing. Okay, yes, foreshadowing.
I got a new coffee maker.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Darren Amazon Prime Sale, and I'm loving my new coffee.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
So that was one of my things. One of my
things is just this.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
This is a unique summer I feel like for my
family because my oldest son's going to be a senior
in college and my middle son is going to be
a freshman in college. So in two weeks I take
them to school, and I've realized that this summer might
be the last time we live like this, because when
he finishes college, I don't know for sure he's coming
back to Nashville what he wants to do. He does
(31:20):
not want to move back in with mom. That part
is clear, and that's fine. That's you know, He's doing
what I expect him to do. But I'm super grateful
that the four of us have had this summer together
because I've gotten to see how my kids interact as friends,
not just as brothers, but also as friends. So super
grateful to have that this summer. Last night, I saw
(31:40):
a movie with my oldest son and I went in
to say good night to my youngest and when I
opened the door, he said good night, Mama, And mama
does not always happen, but when he says, or any
of them say mama, that just like does me in.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
So that was one of the things on my list,
called me mama.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
And then one of my kids came in last night
i'd actually I'm sleep, woke me up and crawled in
bed with me to tell me about his evening.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And I'm like, how many you.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Know teenage early twenty boys crawling bed with their mom
to tell them about their night. So I wrote down
that I was grateful for that, even though he woke
me up and I did not act very grateful at
the moment, it was still just a sweet moment.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Love that.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
And you know what I realized about my parenting post
divorce is that I'm less rigid and just more real.
I can't really think of a way to describe it
because cool keeps coming to mind, and that just sounds lame,
But I do think that that's the case. Like I'm
still firm and in my mom role, but little things
(32:38):
don't bother me like they used to, and I really
want to focus more on connection and communication more than anything.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Do you relate to what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, my kids would totally say I was much more
relaxed post divorce and more fun post divorce. When I
moved into the house that the boys and I live in,
I did set some probably values that I wanted to
invest in when you know, it's US four, no more.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
And one of them was that this is a house.
They're saying, yeah, that's US four, that's for no more.
I love that. Noted. One of the things was I
want this to be a house of truth.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And I just became super honest with like, we have
all lived through a bunch of lies. We have lived
through some deceit and manipulation. That is not how we
live anymore. This is a house house of truth, and
as long as you're telling me the truth, we can
deal with it.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
If you're gonna lie, we can't.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And I'm not going to say it worked itself out perfectly,
because there's obviously our bumps in the road, and they
are teenage boys, and but truth telling has become a
value that I feel like all three of them grasp onto.
And I was even having a conversation with one of
my sons this week having to process like the difference
(33:51):
between a justified truth and what actual truth is.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
So I just said a lot like no, we don't
tell lies in this house.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
We tell the truth, and then would model that even
when it's hard.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So it is funny.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
A couple of weeks ago, we were having a conversation,
and this is how you know you've created a culture
that is successful is when they kind of throw it
back in your face. But we were having this conversation
and one of them said something and I was like,
there are just certain things as mom you can leave out.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I just don't need to hear it.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
And he said house of truth and I'm like, oh, okay,
let's throw that back at me in a moment where
I'm like, no, don't say that. So yeah, that was
just something that was really important to us. And I
think that they feel safe to share what's going on
in their lives because this is a house of truth.
And they've called me out on that when they've felt
(34:42):
like I'm not being honest. My honesty would be more
of their certain things. You know, they don't want to
know about their mom dating, so I would keep that private.
I'm not keeping it a secret, but it's private. And
one of my sons pretty early on said, like, you
said you'd tell us the truth, and you're dating and
you aren't talking to us out it.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
We know he's a real estate agent, I know he's
a police officer. But at that.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Point I had to say, well, what I think is
happening is that we have different Like we were defining
the same term differently. So for me, when I say dating,
I mean I'm in a relationship with someone, and when
you say dating, you mean I'm going on dates. He
was like, yes, so that's what you're doing. I was like, yes,
that's what I'm doing. This is just a misunderstanding. We
have miscommunicated on the definition of this word. So I've yeah,
(35:30):
I think I've just tried to create because I don't
feel rigid anymore and I don't feel stressed anymore.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I can't, I couldn't explain it. But when you said
relaxed and fun like that was it. But again, there's
still this my house, we will respect this is what
I'm doing. Like there's a difference, but there is this.
I don't know when a family goes through a lot
and it's not what was modeled to me as a
child in my home. Yeah, but yeah, something broke us
(35:57):
all down. And Ben's the same way with them. I mean,
and we we co parent amicably and it's very easy,
but we're both on that same page of like, listen,
we would rather our kids be able to come to
us and tell us anything, because that was just not
the culture in our homes.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Growing up, like we could. He's like, I didn't tell
my parents anything or not.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
I mean, his parents are amazing as we're mine, but
just wasn't this open invitation to talk about anything for
fear of XYZ. And so it's almost like when you're
something about what my home went through, I can only
speak for my home what we went through as a family.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
It was like, okay, yeah, well.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
All right, we're just not going to waste time on
being rigid or complicated in that way anymore.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Let's be relaxed, more fun, Let's just be open. Let's share.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
You can company with anything. There's no judgment, it's not
going to shock me. Like I'm also going to guide
you or try to guide you or be the best
mom to you that I can because I care about
you and.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
But like, let's tell each other things. Yeah, it's way
more fun. It's way more fun.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's so exhausting being rich, Yes, it's so exhausting, Yeah
it is. And I think that relaxed nature just allows
me to parent in a way and you to parent
in a way where they want to tell us what's
going on in their life.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
So, yes, we are the cool parents, Amy Cool.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Do you have any final advice to wrap up, like
the divorce talk for anybody that is facing it or
facing the co parenting stuff? Are there resources or things
that you recommend? Obviously I recommend better than okay by
Brandy Wilson.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I will say when it comes to co parenting, one
of the things that was helpful to me is our
communication is basically email and that's it. So I realize
in that communication, am I responding to my ex husband?
Or am I responding to my kid's father? And if
I can separate those roles of like okay, this is
a response from my kids to my kid's father, that
takes away some of the emotion and the hurt that
(37:51):
comes with being my ex husband. So if you can
separate that sometimes that helps remove some of that frustration
and pain. Reframing we're talking to reframes and you're talking too,
So that's a little nugget. I think My other is
just take one day at a time, because you can
get so overwhelmed thinking what is this going to look
like in six months? What is this going to look
(38:12):
like in six years when I'm sending two kids to college,
And it is about making it through that one day
at a time. As far as resources and places to go,
I mean, I tell everyone to find a great therapist,
So I think that's the number one thing you can do,
and then lean into your support system, and if you
don't have that, reach out to the people around you
(38:32):
and ask for it. I think we want to isolate
because out of embarrassment and shame, and then people are
going to ask questions and we often don't have answers
to those questions, so it overwhelms us. But you also
can reach out to those people and if they ask
a question, you.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Can say I don't have an answer for it right now.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Can we just have coffee and talk about what else.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Is going on in life?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
But definitely try to lean into that support system because
it is a time in your life.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
You do not need to be isolated.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
You need to make sure you are seeing other people
and engaging with other people. Lisa Turkhurs wrote a book
called Forgiving What you Can't Forget, which is an excellent book.
I read that with a group of single moms during
the pandemic. We did a book club on Zoom with it,
and it was an excellent resource because lots of times
the other questions I get or how do you forgive?
(39:21):
And I think that's a great one when it comes
to being able to forgive. And then her last book
is called Boundaries or Goodbyes, and that's a great one too,
boundaries or or or Okay, were you good at boundaries?
Before any of this, I thought I was amy and yeah,
(39:41):
and now are you Yeah, I'm way better. Yeah, I
think I'm way better at what I will and won't allow.
So I think for me, I always looked at boundaries
as more of a time frame of like I need
this coffee to end at this time because then I
have this to go to and I've probably thought about
it more entire management, which clearly I was told I
(40:02):
wasn't good at, but now I am actually great.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
You were on time here, thank you. That counts hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
And then you got to talking, and I delayed you
and you had something else, and you were respectful to
call whomever and say, hey, this is my new plan.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So you're I feel like you're great with time management.
Thank you. I'm courteous.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
But yes, I think for boundaries, I had to reframe
how I allow people to treat me and what I
will and won't put up with. So I don't think
I saw boundaries as more emotional boundaries. They were more
physical and tangible boundaries in my mind. So yes, I'm
way better at them now.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
I pulled up the Hearty song and it's signed signed
sober You, Ye, signed commas sober you. Because what he
would do well in the song is he's writing a
note to himself and puts it on the fridge when
he's sobered, so that when he's been drinking he can
read it and be reminded of what he was saying
to himself when he was clear.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yes, yes, not impaired.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
And so yeah, the line is, don't think about it, mister,
don't even touch your phone. I know you think you
miss her, but I promise you you don't.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
There's healing in the lonely.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Sit back, kick off your boots and you'll thank me
in the morning like you always do.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Signed sober you. Yes, I love that song.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I was with another divorced single mom at that benefit,
and when he's saying it, we were both like minds
blown with there's healing in the lonely Oh that means
I'm gonna have to do it.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, take a little bit of work, but you see
the fruit of your labor.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Sure worth it, Yes, worth. It wouldn't change my life
for anything.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Yeah, And I'm gonna the how you do the we're
a family of four.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Forget that other guy no more. I don't know what
was saying, us four no more? For us four no more.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
So I like that just in building that new life, Yeah,
being proactive and not wallowing in like what was supposed
to be or what should have been.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Sure, there's grief there, yeah, of course. Yes.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
In order to move forward, you have to start living
in the now, yes, sure, and then having visions.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
For your future.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
But I feel like if we are focused too much
on our future, then we start the future tripping stuff.
And then if we're living in the past, that's not
helping our new life that we're trying to create it
all And so it seems to me that, yeah, you
realize pretty early on.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I've got to be present.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
I got to be present with my boys, and we're
gonna build our new life, our new traditions, our new things.
And you just had to be proactive, yes, for sure,
And when you're going through a lot, that's sometimes hard
to do because you can feel just paralyzed.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Oh but trust me, I had days I did not
want to get out of bed, and days I took
through his school and went back to bed. So yes,
depression an anxiety was huge during those times. Yeah, but
overall I got.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Up most days.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Amy, Well, thank you for sharing your story and I'm
proud of you for out the book when the time
was right for you and being a resource for so
many people and being so capable and talented.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
I appreciate it no leader and on time.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
I love it all the positivity, give me the positive affirmations, Yeah,
because I don't want those lies in your head to
creep back up, bring back in those voices.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
But now you know, I mean, you've done the work,
But it is interesting no matter how much work you do,
they still pop up. Yeah, just less and less that
you have the awareness and you read it.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yes, boom, yep. The minute it.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Comes in it goes bye. So better than okay is
the book?
Speaker 1 (43:36):
You can get it and read it.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
However, I have downloaded the audio version and so you
can listen to it, but that's not gonna be Brandy's voice.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yes, now I hear she did a lovely job. Whoever
recorded she did a lovely job.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
But I'm just if you're listening to this podcast and
then you decide to go download it, you're like, wait,
am I listening to the right book?
Speaker 1 (43:52):
This sounds like a different person.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
It is the same book, and it's all about finding
hope and healing after your marriage ends. Thank you Brandy
for sharing. And where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
I love Brandy Wilson dot com for my website Brandy
is spelled with an eye, and on Instagram, I'm love
Brandy Wilson, so I can be found both of those places.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Why the love?
Speaker 2 (44:13):
For years I was Brandy and boys because I have
three sons and I like alliteration. And I got to
that point where one of the things I did post
divorce was I went to get a coaching certification because
I was talking to so many women and I'm like,
knowledge is power.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
If I'm going to talk to all these women about divorce,
I want.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
To be able to give them great quality feedback. So
when I got a coaching my first coaching certification, I
have a couple now, I just thought I'm going to
rebrand because I need a single mom's side hustle. So
when I did some rebranding, I actually named my business
Brandy and Boys and switched to Love Brandy Wilson.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
For a couple of reasons.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I feel like it's almost endearing to who I am.
And then I think when I talk about what love
looks like years ago, I love more tattoo on my wrist.
And I just like, if we approach situations with love,
the outcome is usually way more positive than approaching it
with a different stance.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
And I think, for ma'am, if I'm going to talk
about love, I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Talk about how to be healthy in a loving relationship.
And it just kind of stuck so well, I love it.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
I'm so glad you do.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
And Brandy with an I, Yes, I think that's important.
They might be like br A in d y.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, they won't find me there, Brandy with an eye. Oh,
and then what about the Wilson. Last question.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
Sorry, Yeah, I'm intrigued because I'm Amy Brown and that's
been's last name and I'm keeping that and you kept Wilson.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah. I actually had been Wilson longer than I had
been my maiden name Wheeler when I got divorced, and
then my kids are all Wilson. So I had been
a school teacher for years, and it was always a
little confusing of like, who's mom is this when the
last names didn't match. And I think because my kids
were all Wilson and that's how I've been known my
(45:56):
entire adult life, it just seemed like more of a
natural fit.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Okay. I get asked that a lot. It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
A lot of people are like, are you changing your name?
And I'm like, if I change my name, no one
would know what else.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
I know me professionally be like four things with Amy? Yeah,
who is that? Well?
Speaker 3 (46:13):
I hope y'all are having the day that you need
to have again. Check out Brandy's book Better Than Okay,
and remember, no matter what you're going through in life,
maybe it's not even a divorce, but you listen to
this entire episode, which would be cool, and you're like,
I have no idea what they're talking about, but maybe
you're listening for a reason, Like you've got a friend
that could be walking through it soon, or a loved one,
and there's something in knowing that you're not alone, Yes
(46:34):
you're sure, that validation. It could be comforting to have that.
So thanks for listening, and again, whatever you're going through,
I love that saying you're better than okay.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yes you will be, you will be okay. Bye.
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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