May 8, 2025 • 19 mins
What do you do when someone you love is struggling and shutting you out? Amy and Kat respond to a heartfelt email from a college student whose roommate is battling an eating disorder. She’s heartbroken, overwhelmed, and unsure how to support her friend without completely losing herself in the process. Kat shares thoughts on grief, boundaries, and “wise compassion,” while Amy offers relatable encouragement for anyone stuck in the tension between wanting to help and setting boundaries, so you can focus on your own healing. This one’s for anyone who’s ever felt helpless in the face of someone else’s pain.
Email: heythere@feelingthingspodcast.com
Call and leave a voicemail: 877-207-2077
HOSTS:
Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
Kat Van Buren // @KatVanburen
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, break it down.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
If you ever have feelings that you just won'ts home,
Amy and Cat gotcha covin locking, No, brother, Ladies and folks,
do you just follow an the spirit where it's all
the front over real stuff to the jail stuff and
the m but Swayne, sometimes the best thing you can
do it just stop you feel things. This is Feeling
(00:27):
things with.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Amy and Kat.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Happy Thursday. Welcome to Couch Talks, the Q and A episode.
I'm Amy and I'm Kat.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
And before we get started on today's question, quick disclaimer.
Although I'm a therapist and Amy is Amy, this show
does not serve us to the substitute or replacement for
any actual therapy.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
We're just here to if you walk through, do you
see to tailgate?
Speaker 5 (00:52):
We're here talking.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think you said we're here here to tailgate, or.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
That you can tailgate while you we this.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
The email's kind of long, so yeah, yeah you might
need a tailgate.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Which Kat said, Amy's just Amy, because I am one
of you. I to seek therapy of my own, but
I'm just an average Joe.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I to seek therapy of my own, I know, but I.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Don't have any formal training, nor am I trying to
even well.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
The short way to say that is take our feedback
at your own risk.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
We hope it helps. But you don't have to listen
to us if you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And you can email us for couch talks. Just hey
there at Feeling Things podcast dot com, which we got
an email from. Oh is it an anonymous? It's anonymous? Okay, Hey,
Amy and Kat. I apologize if this email is long,
but in some ways I'm sure it's not long enough.
I am a freshman in college with a roommate I adore,
(01:50):
but unfortunately over Christmas she told me she's been struggling
with an eating disorder, which I missed, but looking back
it's obvious. She told me she was help and actively
seeking therapy, and naively I thought it would get better.
Unfortunately it has not. I know she is still getting
counseling and seeing a new nutritionist for help. Side note,
(02:12):
I am training to be a registered dietitian, so a
lot of what she's struggling with I am studying. She
has told her parents, but I do not think that
up until recently, if at all, they understand the severity
of it. Their motto through this whole season has been
you made a commitment to your studies and this year
you will finish it out. Personally, I know this is
not what she needed, but I felt it was not
(02:34):
my place to say anything. I know this is not
something I can fix and will likely take a more
hands on approach to change her mindset, but my question
is what can I do to help her. I feel
like I have a lot of anger towards the situation
and cannot be the friend that she needs since she
has closed off for me and has been actively avoiding me.
(02:54):
I am also not in the healthiest place through all
of this because it has severely paused our relationship and
our state of living is, for lack of better words, disgusting. Now,
do not get me wrong, she takes priority right now,
but I feel like I am drowning in this as
it's consuming me entirely and all of my thoughts. I'm
not worried about me going down the same path. I
(03:15):
think more of my worry has been that I am
studying this so I know things, but she doesn't want
to hear them and it is not my place to
say them. So in summary, my questions are, if you
are in this position. What would you want your roommate
to do for you? What advice do you have for me?
As my mental health is deteriorating because of this, and
the cleanliness of the dorm is disgusting, and my grades
(03:37):
are dropping as exams are coming up. Y'all are doing
amazing work, Amy and Kat. And if you listen to
this and you know you are my roommate, please know
that I am here and I love you more than anything,
and I want to talk to you if you want to.
So then I think to summarize the main question is
she wants to know how to support her friend who's struggling,
and I sort of cut her off, it seems.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
And then how.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Does she support herself because she's grieving a lot like
the loss of her friendship, and then she's got her
own mental health things happening through it. And luckily Kat
is a therapist that specializes in body image and eating disorders.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Cat take it away.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
It's sure you could be like and you talk about.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
And remember I'm just Amy.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It feels nice now, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, Which I think it's good to add some levity here.
This is a very serious email, and we like it
for couch talks because I know I personally hear from
moms that have kids that are struggling, and I think
she mentioned the parents here. Whether you're a friend, a sister,
a roommate, or a family member or a parent, like
(04:47):
you may know someone that could be going through this
and you too want to know how you can best
support them.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Yeah, this could be about anything that somebody is going through.
It doesn't just have to be about ohses and apply
to me or my friends, because nobody that I I
know has had an eating disorder. But what I want
to say first and what I think is probably really
hard to hold right now, because I think when we
have something in our life who is struggling, it feels
(05:12):
selfish or wrong to put ourselves in any part of
that puzzle or equation. So I think what I want
to say first and foremost is multiple things are allowed
to be existing right now. I'm scared for my friend.
I feel sad for my friend. I don't want to
put feelings in her mouth, but those probably are existing.
(05:33):
And she said she has anger towards herself and she
has to take care of herself, and her friend's situation
is also affecting her, so it's okay to hold both
of those. We don't have to just say, well, I
can't think about me because she's the one who's struggling,
Because your feelings are important in making.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
You're also struggling.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Now this is where I really want to drive home
that this is not therapy and take all of this
with a grain of sar all because depending on all
the different pieces that we might not know.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
About this situation or your situation.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
When somebody is struggling with something and you're trying to
be compassionate, there's two types of compassion that can show up.
One is idiot compassion. One is why is compassion? Very
different things?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Oh I'm intrigued. I have not ever heard of.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You haven't this?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Okay, this is tough, though, This is a really tough
because you're going to have feelings. If you're the one
the offering the compassion, you're gonna feel some discomfort in
this idiot compassion. Is that the compassion we give and
we don't want to rock the boat. It's the like
just kind of sympathy, just that I'm so sorry, just
that that must be really hard. It's I'm going to
(06:45):
give her grace when I've probably given two. There is
a we can give too much grace, but that shows
up when we just don't want to ruffle feathers. It's
very people pleasing keep the peace. So is this like
in your therapy literature?
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Idiot?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Like?
Speaker 5 (07:04):
What's it?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
It was on our tests? Is on our licensing exam?
Speaker 5 (07:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I actually don't know where this came from. I do
know that in the book, maybe you should talk to somebody.
She talks about it, but she didn't create this, so
I don't know where it actually comes from.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Gottlieb.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yes, that's a good book. It's such a good book.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
And that's a great book if you just want a
good fiction book to read, although it is based.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Off of her real clients, which it's also interesting sometimes
what our brains retain and what they don't. Because I
read that book and really enjoyed it, and I don't
remember idiot compassion.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Okay, be were like, I don't want to learn that.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
That makes me uncomfortable because once you know it, then
you have to do something about it.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So that's idiot compassion?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Then whyse Compassion is the compassion that we give when
sometimes we have to say some hard things it's when
we really want to be more helpful, even when it
includes a tough conversation, or even when it includes a
tough boundary, I can have compassion for you and still
have to draw a line, if that makes sense. And
so I wanted to share that here because in any
(08:06):
type of thing, but especially in eating disorders or addiction,
it's we always want to be like, oh, but they're sick,
but they're struggling, but they're.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So In my personal experience with that, I'm thinking back
at a time where I was advised by someone that
was walking me through something that I needed to detach
with love.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Oh, I love that, and so I don't know, this feels.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Like relatable to that in that I really cared and
wanted to try to go in. But I then was
becoming more codependent by the minute, trying to control certain
things that really weren't for me to control, and it
felt mean to walk away or detach in a sense,
to take care of myself. And so the language she
(08:52):
gave me was, well, you can detach with love.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I'm going to start using that.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I love that, And that I think is where again,
we don't know the exact situations we don't know what
steps have been taken or if it's time for this,
but it can save somebody's life to detach with love,
because when we don't do that, we end up enabling
that codependency. I would want to save them and take
care of them, and also I'm taking care of myself
and that because I don't want to feel a discomfort
(09:17):
of drawing a boundary or what if I upset them?
And I have heard countless stories where parents kicking their
kids out has saved their life because we're not going
to be a player in this game. So I just
want to put that out there for them to think
about and maybe grapple with am I offering too much
(09:39):
idiot compassion? Do I need to bring in some wise
compassion and still be loving and maybe create some detachment
with love? Is that is a form of helping somebody.
And I had a friend in we were in college
who's struggling with the eating disorder. It was one of
those things where everybody was talking about it. Everybody was
(10:09):
talking about it, not to her. Everybody was talking about it,
and I was at a different school, so I went
and visited her. I saw some things that I mean,
I didn't know anything about eating disorders back then, but
I was like, this can't be good, and so I
sent her a message and just said I noticed some things.
I actually looked this up recently because I was like,
what did I say to her? And I said, I
(10:31):
noticed some things this weekend and I just want to
check in with you and make sure that you're okay.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I really love you and I want you to know
if you ever need anything, I'm here.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And I got like a stiff arm I'm fine, you
don't need to worry about me kind of response, and
then some radio silence for a while, and I think.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I was upset with at that and also patient.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And then a year later or something, she did reach
out to me and say like, I'm sorry that I
kind of neglected you after you sent me that message.
Thank you for saying something, because nobody else did. And
I don't think I am any part of her getting help,
and I think was helpful in that moment where she
didn't want help, to know that somebody was noticing her.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, she didn't like it, And you said, you you
had to just wait, sit in that uncomfortable season of
like waiting, and you had to be patient which I mean,
that's what that's really hard to do.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That too, Oh yeah, because it's like, what did I do?
Speaker 4 (11:31):
But I think my response back then was it was
like twenty one, twenty years old. I was like, well,
maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but I'm just gonna
be patient and see what happens. Man, it was easy
because I this girl's roommates with this person, she sees
her all the time. I was at a different school
six hours away, so it was a little bit different,
but it was uncomfortable, and I think at the same
(11:53):
time in time that I think we we we get
back what we put in from that. So again, maybe
look at your compassion, which we had a compassion wheel here,
but look at the type of compassion we're showing. What
do I need to show and do I need to
bring anything else in? And at the same time, if
(12:13):
you do come to your friend and you ask for
something or you say something and she's not responsive or
she's defensive or she cuts you off even more, you're
also allowed to have feelings in this. Coming back to
what I said in the beginning, you need things right now,
like this is affecting your life, your studies, your room,
you're allowed to set boundaries with that, so maybe think
(12:35):
about less what does she need and what do I
need in order to put those pieces together? Is there
anything I need that I need to ask for which
feels kind of like what I'm going to ask for something.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I'm not the one struggling, but you are.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Yeah, And I think there's a way to do it kindly.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And then you just have to decide how far you're
going to go after that, and you can be patient
because sounds like she's definitely in the thick of it,
and yeah, I'm I'm I'm taken back right now in
my own thoughts of when I had to really understand
what it means to detach with love, And you may
need to do some digging with that, like dig into
(13:10):
that a little more and ask yourself what that might
look like and just saying your piece kindly and maybe
even stating what you need if you feel like you
want to go there, and then stepping away with love.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Do you have any advice thinking about your situation of
things that helped you do the hard thing. Was it
just hearing that from the therapist or.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Well, I mean there was multiple therapists. I mean there's
a lot of things, but I finally had to realize
my involvement, which I don't know that again, this is
a totally different situation, but you mentioned when we enable,
like when we have the idiot compassion, we can enable,
and I realized my participation in it all, and that
(13:55):
would I wanted to remove myself from the game looking
at it like that, like I was becoming exhausted. Yeah,
and things were a mess and falling apart. And I
think once you realize like, oh this actually also isn't
my responsibility to fix or control this situation, So I
need to step back and take care of myself. And yeah,
(14:18):
you just patience, I think is huge, huge, Yeah, patience
is a virtue.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I was gonna say.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Also, I think it would be unfair to not put
this in there. No matter what you do, if somebody
does not want help at that moment, you can't help them.
And that was probably one of the hardest lessons I
learned as a therapist early on, because I thought, if
I'm good enough, I'll fix them.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
No, they have to want it for them, they have
to want it.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
So take some pressure off yourself, maybe, Shelbin, and let
her know that you notice her, You notice that she's struggling.
Even if she meets you with defensiveness, deep down that
really could mean something of sof somebody sees me, somebody's
taking this seriously, even if she's not showing up that way,
that still could be happening. And if she is not ready,
(15:10):
that's all you can do and just say I'm here
when you are ready.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Does no matter what skill we give you, or what
sentenced stem we give you.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Or but Stan Furman that I'm here when you're ready.
You don't have to keep coming back if you feel
like you need to check check in at some point.
But I feel like part of that detachment is you
truly have to surrender the control, like you're not going
to be a part of like what are her parents
decide to do, what she decides to do, what others?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Because that is tough to sit with.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
So maybe get an outlet where you can let out
some of that frustration and steam and energy.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
And focus on yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
One of the statements that also helped me, and this
is from Alan On actually and we hear it over
and over and over, it is just stay on your
side of the street, stay in your lane, stay in
your lane. So with love, you can express something to
your friend. But when something it's also impacting you in
a way, which I know, like your your dorm is
a mess, Like I'm sure that that's just I'm assuming
(16:07):
because the other part is all consuming and it just
other things lose priority. But maybe take time or is
there someone that you can call on that can come
help you, like tidy things up and get it together
and have a fresh space. You got one month left.
I don't know what your summer is going to look like,
but once you do express your part, then you're on
(16:28):
your side of the street and clean up your side,
Like we're responsible for cleaning up our side. And it
sounds like you maybe have some things you need to
tend to when it comes to your mental health.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
So yeah, that's our advice.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Thank you for sending this question, and I really appreciated
this email and the time you spent writing it. I
think this is going to help more people, even if
they're not directly relating to your roommate situation. Yeah, we
have situations like this happen more than I wish.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Have the day you need to have, Just kidding, good luck,
talk to you later. Bye.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Maybe has to end it on like a fun I know,
I'm like golle.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I just I feel for her because when someone has
a eating disorder, something that was said to me when
I was in the throes of my newsorder sort of
like the first go round because mine went away and
then it came back. But in my early twenties, because
a friend reached out to a friend, this one person
sort of became like a mentor of sorts to walk
me through it because she had walked through an eating disorder.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
And I just remember we.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Went on a walk one day and she just told
me that what she realized with her own eating disorder
is that it was a slow suicide and she had
to decide one day like this will take my life
if I don't do something. And it sounds like your
roommate is at a very severe point, and I know
that that's hard. It's difficult to watch somebody doing that
because if someone was actually legit harming themselves in a
(17:47):
way that was like or you know, death by suicide,
you would intervene and do something drastic. And this is
very difficult and just a hard way to end an
episode on a lighter note.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
It's a hard way to end a year of school too,
especially if they're going separate places and there's some just
worry about what it's going to be like at home.
But yeah, there's not a good way to wrap this
up eating disorders. They're not there's no way to make them.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So we love hearing from you all though, so please
send us an update when if you've got it and
know that we're we're cheering you on.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
You can do it? Is that helpful?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Okay, you can do it. What movie is that from?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Water Boy?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Oh? It is? Okay, right, yeah, Adam Taylor, Okay, see
I know movies? Yeah, good job, I know what's speaking
of movies? You know what I keep doing in my
head now? Ever since you told us on a previous
episode about our line yeah uh huh, which so many
people reach out to me and told me they knew
what I was talking about.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
House funny.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, yeah, watch if you haven't heard that episode, you
know what we're talking about. We'll close with this tip.
If you're meeting someone for the first time and you
want to remember their name and they say, Hi, my
name is Jill, you go let me do Hi.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
My name is Jill, Jill. What is that as deep
as your voice, Joe, Hold on, Joe, but.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
I do that, okay, So you would go HI him
or I'll do it. Hey, I'm Cindy.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay, good we did it raining on the on a
laugh all right, rap.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Half the day.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
You need to have yeah and email us your questions.
Hey there at Feeling Things podcast dot com.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
That's right, Follow us, that's right, that's right. Okay, have
gotten hi
All right, break it down.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
If you ever have feelings that you just won'ts home,
Amy and Cat gotcha covin locking, No, brother, Ladies and folks,
do you just follow an the spirit where it's all
the front over real stuff to the jail stuff and
the m but Swayne, sometimes the best thing you can
do it just stop you feel things. This is Feeling
(00:27):
things with.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Amy and Kat.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Happy Thursday. Welcome to Couch Talks, the Q and A episode.
I'm Amy and I'm Kat.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
And before we get started on today's question, quick disclaimer.
Although I'm a therapist and Amy is Amy, this show
does not serve us to the substitute or replacement for
any actual therapy.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
We're just here to if you walk through, do you
see to tailgate?
Speaker 5 (00:52):
We're here talking.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think you said we're here here to tailgate, or.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
That you can tailgate while you we this.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
The email's kind of long, so yeah, yeah you might
need a tailgate.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Which Kat said, Amy's just Amy, because I am one
of you. I to seek therapy of my own, but
I'm just an average Joe.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I to seek therapy of my own, I know, but I.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Don't have any formal training, nor am I trying to
even well.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
The short way to say that is take our feedback
at your own risk.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
We hope it helps. But you don't have to listen
to us if you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And you can email us for couch talks. Just hey
there at Feeling Things podcast dot com, which we got
an email from. Oh is it an anonymous? It's anonymous? Okay, Hey,
Amy and Kat. I apologize if this email is long,
but in some ways I'm sure it's not long enough.
I am a freshman in college with a roommate I adore,
(01:50):
but unfortunately over Christmas she told me she's been struggling
with an eating disorder, which I missed, but looking back
it's obvious. She told me she was help and actively
seeking therapy, and naively I thought it would get better.
Unfortunately it has not. I know she is still getting
counseling and seeing a new nutritionist for help. Side note,
(02:12):
I am training to be a registered dietitian, so a
lot of what she's struggling with I am studying. She
has told her parents, but I do not think that
up until recently, if at all, they understand the severity
of it. Their motto through this whole season has been
you made a commitment to your studies and this year
you will finish it out. Personally, I know this is
not what she needed, but I felt it was not
(02:34):
my place to say anything. I know this is not
something I can fix and will likely take a more
hands on approach to change her mindset, but my question
is what can I do to help her. I feel
like I have a lot of anger towards the situation
and cannot be the friend that she needs since she
has closed off for me and has been actively avoiding me.
(02:54):
I am also not in the healthiest place through all
of this because it has severely paused our relationship and
our state of living is, for lack of better words, disgusting. Now,
do not get me wrong, she takes priority right now,
but I feel like I am drowning in this as
it's consuming me entirely and all of my thoughts. I'm
not worried about me going down the same path. I
(03:15):
think more of my worry has been that I am
studying this so I know things, but she doesn't want
to hear them and it is not my place to
say them. So in summary, my questions are, if you
are in this position. What would you want your roommate
to do for you? What advice do you have for me?
As my mental health is deteriorating because of this, and
the cleanliness of the dorm is disgusting, and my grades
(03:37):
are dropping as exams are coming up. Y'all are doing
amazing work, Amy and Kat. And if you listen to
this and you know you are my roommate, please know
that I am here and I love you more than anything,
and I want to talk to you if you want to.
So then I think to summarize the main question is
she wants to know how to support her friend who's struggling,
and I sort of cut her off, it seems.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
And then how.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Does she support herself because she's grieving a lot like
the loss of her friendship, and then she's got her
own mental health things happening through it. And luckily Kat
is a therapist that specializes in body image and eating disorders.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Cat take it away.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
It's sure you could be like and you talk about.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
And remember I'm just Amy.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It feels nice now, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, Which I think it's good to add some levity here.
This is a very serious email, and we like it
for couch talks because I know I personally hear from
moms that have kids that are struggling, and I think
she mentioned the parents here. Whether you're a friend, a sister,
a roommate, or a family member or a parent, like
(04:47):
you may know someone that could be going through this
and you too want to know how you can best
support them.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Yeah, this could be about anything that somebody is going through.
It doesn't just have to be about ohses and apply
to me or my friends, because nobody that I I
know has had an eating disorder. But what I want
to say first and what I think is probably really
hard to hold right now, because I think when we
have something in our life who is struggling, it feels
(05:12):
selfish or wrong to put ourselves in any part of
that puzzle or equation. So I think what I want
to say first and foremost is multiple things are allowed
to be existing right now. I'm scared for my friend.
I feel sad for my friend. I don't want to
put feelings in her mouth, but those probably are existing.
(05:33):
And she said she has anger towards herself and she
has to take care of herself, and her friend's situation
is also affecting her, so it's okay to hold both
of those. We don't have to just say, well, I
can't think about me because she's the one who's struggling,
Because your feelings are important in making.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
You're also struggling.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Now this is where I really want to drive home
that this is not therapy and take all of this
with a grain of sar all because depending on all
the different pieces that we might not know.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
About this situation or your situation.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
When somebody is struggling with something and you're trying to
be compassionate, there's two types of compassion that can show up.
One is idiot compassion. One is why is compassion? Very
different things?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Oh I'm intrigued. I have not ever heard of.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You haven't this?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Okay, this is tough, though, This is a really tough
because you're going to have feelings. If you're the one
the offering the compassion, you're gonna feel some discomfort in
this idiot compassion. Is that the compassion we give and
we don't want to rock the boat. It's the like
just kind of sympathy, just that I'm so sorry, just
that that must be really hard. It's I'm going to
(06:45):
give her grace when I've probably given two. There is
a we can give too much grace, but that shows
up when we just don't want to ruffle feathers. It's
very people pleasing keep the peace. So is this like
in your therapy literature?
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Idiot?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Like?
Speaker 5 (07:04):
What's it?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
It was on our tests? Is on our licensing exam?
Speaker 5 (07:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
I actually don't know where this came from. I do
know that in the book, maybe you should talk to somebody.
She talks about it, but she didn't create this, so
I don't know where it actually comes from.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Gottlieb.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yes, that's a good book. It's such a good book.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
And that's a great book if you just want a
good fiction book to read, although it is based.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Off of her real clients, which it's also interesting sometimes
what our brains retain and what they don't. Because I
read that book and really enjoyed it, and I don't
remember idiot compassion.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Okay, be were like, I don't want to learn that.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
That makes me uncomfortable because once you know it, then
you have to do something about it.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So that's idiot compassion?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Then whyse Compassion is the compassion that we give when
sometimes we have to say some hard things it's when
we really want to be more helpful, even when it
includes a tough conversation, or even when it includes a
tough boundary, I can have compassion for you and still
have to draw a line, if that makes sense. And
so I wanted to share that here because in any
(08:06):
type of thing, but especially in eating disorders or addiction,
it's we always want to be like, oh, but they're sick,
but they're struggling, but they're.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So In my personal experience with that, I'm thinking back
at a time where I was advised by someone that
was walking me through something that I needed to detach
with love.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Oh, I love that, and so I don't know, this feels.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Like relatable to that in that I really cared and
wanted to try to go in. But I then was
becoming more codependent by the minute, trying to control certain
things that really weren't for me to control, and it
felt mean to walk away or detach in a sense,
to take care of myself. And so the language she
(08:52):
gave me was, well, you can detach with love.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I'm going to start using that.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I love that, And that I think is where again,
we don't know the exact situations we don't know what
steps have been taken or if it's time for this,
but it can save somebody's life to detach with love,
because when we don't do that, we end up enabling
that codependency. I would want to save them and take
care of them, and also I'm taking care of myself
and that because I don't want to feel a discomfort
(09:17):
of drawing a boundary or what if I upset them?
And I have heard countless stories where parents kicking their
kids out has saved their life because we're not going
to be a player in this game. So I just
want to put that out there for them to think
about and maybe grapple with am I offering too much
(09:39):
idiot compassion? Do I need to bring in some wise
compassion and still be loving and maybe create some detachment
with love? Is that is a form of helping somebody.
And I had a friend in we were in college
who's struggling with the eating disorder. It was one of
those things where everybody was talking about it. Everybody was
(10:09):
talking about it, not to her. Everybody was talking about it,
and I was at a different school, so I went
and visited her. I saw some things that I mean,
I didn't know anything about eating disorders back then, but
I was like, this can't be good, and so I
sent her a message and just said I noticed some things.
I actually looked this up recently because I was like,
what did I say to her? And I said, I
(10:31):
noticed some things this weekend and I just want to
check in with you and make sure that you're okay.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I really love you and I want you to know
if you ever need anything, I'm here.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And I got like a stiff arm I'm fine, you
don't need to worry about me kind of response, and
then some radio silence for a while, and I think.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I was upset with at that and also patient.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And then a year later or something, she did reach
out to me and say like, I'm sorry that I
kind of neglected you after you sent me that message.
Thank you for saying something, because nobody else did. And
I don't think I am any part of her getting help,
and I think was helpful in that moment where she
didn't want help, to know that somebody was noticing her.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, she didn't like it, And you said, you you
had to just wait, sit in that uncomfortable season of
like waiting, and you had to be patient which I mean,
that's what that's really hard to do.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That too, Oh yeah, because it's like, what did I do?
Speaker 4 (11:31):
But I think my response back then was it was
like twenty one, twenty years old. I was like, well,
maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but I'm just gonna
be patient and see what happens. Man, it was easy
because I this girl's roommates with this person, she sees
her all the time. I was at a different school
six hours away, so it was a little bit different,
but it was uncomfortable, and I think at the same
(11:53):
time in time that I think we we we get
back what we put in from that. So again, maybe
look at your compassion, which we had a compassion wheel here,
but look at the type of compassion we're showing. What
do I need to show and do I need to
bring anything else in? And at the same time, if
(12:13):
you do come to your friend and you ask for
something or you say something and she's not responsive or
she's defensive or she cuts you off even more, you're
also allowed to have feelings in this. Coming back to
what I said in the beginning, you need things right now,
like this is affecting your life, your studies, your room,
you're allowed to set boundaries with that, so maybe think
(12:35):
about less what does she need and what do I
need in order to put those pieces together? Is there
anything I need that I need to ask for which
feels kind of like what I'm going to ask for something.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I'm not the one struggling, but you are.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Yeah, And I think there's a way to do it kindly.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And then you just have to decide how far you're
going to go after that, and you can be patient
because sounds like she's definitely in the thick of it,
and yeah, I'm I'm I'm taken back right now in
my own thoughts of when I had to really understand
what it means to detach with love, And you may
need to do some digging with that, like dig into
(13:10):
that a little more and ask yourself what that might
look like and just saying your piece kindly and maybe
even stating what you need if you feel like you
want to go there, and then stepping away with love.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Do you have any advice thinking about your situation of
things that helped you do the hard thing. Was it
just hearing that from the therapist or.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Well, I mean there was multiple therapists. I mean there's
a lot of things, but I finally had to realize
my involvement, which I don't know that again, this is
a totally different situation, but you mentioned when we enable,
like when we have the idiot compassion, we can enable,
and I realized my participation in it all, and that
(13:55):
would I wanted to remove myself from the game looking
at it like that, like I was becoming exhausted. Yeah,
and things were a mess and falling apart. And I
think once you realize like, oh this actually also isn't
my responsibility to fix or control this situation, So I
need to step back and take care of myself. And yeah,
(14:18):
you just patience, I think is huge, huge, Yeah, patience
is a virtue.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I was gonna say.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Also, I think it would be unfair to not put
this in there. No matter what you do, if somebody
does not want help at that moment, you can't help them.
And that was probably one of the hardest lessons I
learned as a therapist early on, because I thought, if
I'm good enough, I'll fix them.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
No, they have to want it for them, they have
to want it.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
So take some pressure off yourself, maybe, Shelbin, and let
her know that you notice her, You notice that she's struggling.
Even if she meets you with defensiveness, deep down that
really could mean something of sof somebody sees me, somebody's
taking this seriously, even if she's not showing up that way,
that still could be happening. And if she is not ready,
(15:10):
that's all you can do and just say I'm here
when you are ready.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Does no matter what skill we give you, or what
sentenced stem we give you.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Or but Stan Furman that I'm here when you're ready.
You don't have to keep coming back if you feel
like you need to check check in at some point.
But I feel like part of that detachment is you
truly have to surrender the control, like you're not going
to be a part of like what are her parents
decide to do, what she decides to do, what others?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Because that is tough to sit with.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
So maybe get an outlet where you can let out
some of that frustration and steam and energy.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
And focus on yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
One of the statements that also helped me, and this
is from Alan On actually and we hear it over
and over and over, it is just stay on your
side of the street, stay in your lane, stay in
your lane. So with love, you can express something to
your friend. But when something it's also impacting you in
a way, which I know, like your your dorm is
a mess, Like I'm sure that that's just I'm assuming
(16:07):
because the other part is all consuming and it just
other things lose priority. But maybe take time or is
there someone that you can call on that can come
help you, like tidy things up and get it together
and have a fresh space. You got one month left.
I don't know what your summer is going to look like,
but once you do express your part, then you're on
(16:28):
your side of the street and clean up your side,
Like we're responsible for cleaning up our side. And it
sounds like you maybe have some things you need to
tend to when it comes to your mental health.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
So yeah, that's our advice.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Thank you for sending this question, and I really appreciated
this email and the time you spent writing it. I
think this is going to help more people, even if
they're not directly relating to your roommate situation. Yeah, we
have situations like this happen more than I wish.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Have the day you need to have, Just kidding, good luck,
talk to you later. Bye.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Maybe has to end it on like a fun I know,
I'm like golle.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I just I feel for her because when someone has
a eating disorder, something that was said to me when
I was in the throes of my newsorder sort of
like the first go round because mine went away and
then it came back. But in my early twenties, because
a friend reached out to a friend, this one person
sort of became like a mentor of sorts to walk
me through it because she had walked through an eating disorder.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
And I just remember we.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Went on a walk one day and she just told
me that what she realized with her own eating disorder
is that it was a slow suicide and she had
to decide one day like this will take my life
if I don't do something. And it sounds like your
roommate is at a very severe point, and I know
that that's hard. It's difficult to watch somebody doing that
because if someone was actually legit harming themselves in a
(17:47):
way that was like or you know, death by suicide,
you would intervene and do something drastic. And this is
very difficult and just a hard way to end an
episode on a lighter note.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
It's a hard way to end a year of school too,
especially if they're going separate places and there's some just
worry about what it's going to be like at home.
But yeah, there's not a good way to wrap this
up eating disorders. They're not there's no way to make them.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
So we love hearing from you all though, so please
send us an update when if you've got it and
know that we're we're cheering you on.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
You can do it? Is that helpful?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Okay, you can do it. What movie is that from?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Water Boy?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Oh? It is? Okay, right, yeah, Adam Taylor, Okay, see
I know movies? Yeah, good job, I know what's speaking
of movies? You know what I keep doing in my
head now? Ever since you told us on a previous
episode about our line yeah uh huh, which so many
people reach out to me and told me they knew
what I was talking about.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
House funny.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, yeah, watch if you haven't heard that episode, you
know what we're talking about. We'll close with this tip.
If you're meeting someone for the first time and you
want to remember their name and they say, Hi, my
name is Jill, you go let me do Hi.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
My name is Jill, Jill. What is that as deep
as your voice, Joe, Hold on, Joe, but.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
I do that, okay, So you would go HI him
or I'll do it. Hey, I'm Cindy.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay, good we did it raining on the on a
laugh all right, rap.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Half the day.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
You need to have yeah and email us your questions.
Hey there at Feeling Things podcast dot com.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
That's right, Follow us, that's right, that's right. Okay, have
gotten hi
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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