June 19, 2025 • 26 mins
Amy and Kat read an email from a listener who’s feeling left out after seeing her friends’ beach trip on social media (even though she probably couldn’t have gone anyway!) They get curious about what’s really underneath wanting to be invited, how to talk about it (or not), and why old hurts can make exclusion sting even more. They also play a voicemail that another listener left back in May that fits so perfectly with this topic/conversation.
Email: heythere@feelingthingspodcast.com
Call and leave a voicemail: 877-207-2077
HOSTS:
Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
Kat Van Buren // @KatVanburen
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Good.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
All right, break it down.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
If you ever have feelings that you just fons Amy
and Kat gotcha, coviing locking, No, brother, Ladies and folks,
do you just follow an the spirit where it's all
the front over real stuff to the chill stuff and
the m but Swayne, sometimes the best thing you can
do it just stop you feel things. This is Feeling Things.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
With Amy and Kat.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Happy Thursday, Welcome to Couch Talks the Q and a
episode to the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy and I'm Kat.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
And quick reminder before we get into today's email that
although we're answering questions from listeners, this does not serve
as replacement or substitute from actual therapy.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Correct. I second that, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
We have an email from a listener who would like
to remain anonymous, and she mentions that in the note,
So we'll just get right into it. Hey, Amy and Kat,
you two always get me through mundane, happy and hard days.
I would like to stay anonymous for this, but I
feel like it might help someone else as well. This week,
three of my best friends and their husbands and kids
went to the beach together. They do this every year,
(01:10):
but this year it hit harder than usual, and I
feel left out and less than I am never even
asked if I want to join, but I always invite
them to everything I do or might be doing, some
of which they attend, some of which they don't. I
feel like I'm not included because I work full time,
don't have a boyfriend or a husband or kids, or,
(01:31):
as I like to say, I'm not in the same
place as them. I don't know how to bring it
up without feeling like I'm causing some huge ordeal when
honestly I probably couldn't go anyway due to work and life.
Any suggestions on how to handle this while sitting at
home and seeing all of their fun on Instagram, or
how to approach this in person or via text? Which
(01:54):
do you suggest without seeming like I'm nagging? I think
it wouldn't bother me as much. But another single friend
of ours did get invited thanks in advance. Yeah, this
is hard, especially with Instagram. Can we just go back
to the nineteen nineties? Yeah? I get is that where
(02:15):
I go when people could go on trips and you
didn't have to hear about it or know about it.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think that's a big part of this. Though I
have a lot of thoughts on this.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I wonder if she wasn't seeing it, would it feel
the same way if she she might know they have
gone together. But if you're like watching it from afar,
my first question would be she said that she was
feeling left out in less than, My first question would be, like,
when you're seeing what feelings are coming up for you
(02:45):
left out and less than? Is there loneliness in that?
Is there shame in that? And the less end part?
Because then that will guide you to what you really need.
Because something that stuck out to me here is that
even if she was invited, she doesn't know that she
would even be able to go. So do you want
to be invited? Do you just want to be considered?
Do you want to feel connected to those people? If
(03:07):
they did invite you, would you make the effort and
time to go.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well? I can sort of relate to this part a
little tiny bit, the part of just wanting to be asked.
I just had this conversation with my boyfriend two days ago.
It's something that came up organically. Thank goodness, I wasn't emotional.
I had already let it die down. But about two
(03:31):
weeks ago and then maybe two weeks before that. So
we have two events in the last month or so
where I wasn't invited to something. Now they happen to
be weeks that I have my kids. A little backstory
in case you're new here. I have two kids. My
boyfriend has three kids. We all hang out. Everybody's met.
(03:53):
That took some time, of course, but now it's not
a thing like we should be able to do stuff.
I mean, we're about to go on a vacation, all
of us together to the same place. So what happened was,
I guess there was two different times where his dad
was having people over. His dad and his stepmom, and
they live here in Nashville with us. It's very common
(04:14):
for them to gather. They live around the corner from
my boyfriend, so it's a common hangout. I've been included before,
like I went there for Thanksgiving, I went there for
other things. And then there was two different things that
came up where he's like, Oh, We're going over to
my dad's for dinner and I was like, oh, what
are y all celebrating? And it was sort of something
it was like end of year, like graduation type stuff.
(04:36):
And then there was like another thing oh, his sister's birthday,
And I thought, what happened? Like, I've been invited before
to holidays. I get it's her birthday, but I mean
it was their Thanksgiving and this is months later. So
I just felt in those moments, why is he casually
just being like, oh, yeah, we're going and not even mentioning, oh, hey,
(05:00):
I know you've got your kids, you probably won't come,
which I get my kids coming to that sort of thing.
It might still be a little bit much even though
they've met. I would just like the option to discuss it.
And there was one of the nights where it happened
where he just casually brought it up, and I'm like,
how long has this been planned? And why didn't he
invite me? And I remember being so hurt. Similar to her,
(05:22):
I felt less than I felt like, what are we
even doing? I could have spiraled easily, but I took
a few deep breaths and I'd let them go do
their dinner and I just didn't even bring it up. Well,
fast forward to two days ago. We were talking about
Father's Day, which has now come and past. But you
know this is podcasting the way we're filming it. Father's
(05:44):
Day was yesterday and we were talking about going over
to his dad's but I had my son with me,
and I said, oh, we're invited, and he was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
you and Stevenson can come to dinner. And I said, oh, okay,
well I didn't know I have been invited to the
last two things that y'all have done over there. And
of course he was like, wait, which two things are
(06:04):
you talking about? Like they weren't a big deal to him,
But of course I remembered every detail and that I
wasn't invited, and I was able to say it in
a calm way, and it came up organically. So when
I think of how she should maybe do it, I
don't think sending a text message is probably the best
way in my opinion. You may have a different take, cap,
(06:25):
but words can be tricky on text, and they can
read it in a defensive tone when you don't mean it.
But when it came up organically that now Stevenson and
I were going to go over to his dad's for
Father's Day, I was able to say, kind of in
a joking way, overcoming like oh, we can go, And
then I was able to say that there were two
(06:47):
dinners that I just was surprised there wasn't even a mention.
He goes, well, I knew you couldn't come, and.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Well he assumed you couldn't come, but he's right, I couldn't. Okay,
I couldn't. He's right.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It wouldn't have made sense at the time for one
of them, for sure, with my daughter, it just wouldn't
have made sense. So I explained to him when I've
been invited before and we're kind of doing things all
as families, and it just sort of didn't feel good
to suddenly not be asked, I said, because I feel
like if I were to have something going on, even
(07:21):
if I knew you couldn't come, I'm going to extend
the invite or say hey, if you're able to come by,
or I know you probably can't come. But I just
wanted you to know about this. I'm not just going
to casually be like, oh, we're doing this, I'll call
you after, because I know how this listener is feeling.
Though it's different it's with her best friends, but I
had those same feelings as a girlfriend, and I think
(07:45):
if I had brought it up in the moment, I
would have been way too emotional and made it this
big deal where he didn't really even hear me and
he'd be like, you're kind of being ridiculous. But I
waited for a moment where I wasn't even planning on
talking about it. It just came up and then I
was like, oh, yeah, this reminds me. This is how
I felt when this happened, and what it brought up
(08:06):
for me was this, and what I would like in
the future is this, and then that way that can
help you know, it alleviates any confusion of what I
think is happening with us, because, yeah, I don't want
to be naggy. I don't want to be dramatic. I
don't want to be too much, okay, but.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
You having needs and feelings isn't being naggy into great.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But that's why the way it worked out, I didn't
come across as any of that.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, I think I.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Had I brought it up in a heightened emotional state,
it would have been a little naggy and much for me.
For you, okay for me, yeah, other people might be
able to do that, But I'm glad that I had
this space.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
So I know.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
There's a really long story to kind of relate to
this listener that you're not alone and feeling this, and
I think that, yeah, a lot of people are feeling this,
whether it's with their best friends, it's with family members,
it's with partners.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Well, I think this, Yeah, this is a very common occurrence.
I think I've said this before, probably even on this podcast,
like I don't always want to go, but I want
to be thought of and considered and I want to
be invited. I want I want to be given the option,
and I think there might be a little bit of
that in here. But what I would be curious about
(09:22):
for her is would she not want to go on
this trip or she wouldn't be able to go on
this trip because she said in here somewhere like I
don't know if I.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Can even go because of work.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
But if you were invited, would you finagle your schedule
to be able to go on this or do you
just want to feel like you're included in this group?
Do you want to feel like they care about you
and they see you? So those are Do you want
to go or do you just want to know that
there's an option to go? Which both are valid. So
I would for her think about what it is your feelings,
(09:57):
So you said you were feeling hurt, So for her,
what are you feeling that's going to lead you to
what you actually need? And is there anything else that
this is bringing up for you? Is this bringing up
a story from your past? Does this feeling remind you
of a time when you were younger? And is that
getting in the way of what's happening now? Because there's
(10:18):
a lot of in her email, some assumption she's making,
and I think she just sounds like she wants more
information about why she's not included in and then there's
this other person that's included, So what is that about?
Are they making assumptions that I work a lot, so
I probably wouldn't want to go. Who knows, maybe this
other person that is single that went on the trip,
maybe she asked to go, you know, like we don't
(10:42):
know that. So I think what I hear is there's
a need for clarification on what you're feeling that can
lead you to what you need, and once you have that,
then you can decide how you want to approach it.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I think it's I don't have strong.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Feelings about texts, phone calls, in person on something like
this as long as you can articulate what you're feeling well.
And I don't have strong feelings about whether you wait
for it to happen organically or not, because this might
not come up organically true, and that might if you're
waiting for that to happen, but you're already like feeling
(11:18):
all these feelings and then you're watching these stories and
you know, might be building some resentment or more stories
happening as I'm watching the Instagram stories.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
It might be better to just like say, hey, I'm confused, Like.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But you send it to them while they're on the trip. No,
I would probably wait, yeah, okay, good, but it's clarifying.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
You don't know if it's going to come up organically
like when you hang out with them.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
It might might not.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
But I think it's fine if it's important to you
to go ahead and have that conversation and like we
say a lot, stay really curious about what's going on
and know what you are wanting to get out of this.
Because my fear is and this is me not knowing
all the information, so there's I'm making assumptions. My fear
(12:00):
is you go to them and you say this. You
know I was feeling left out. I felt hurt, and
they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't know. I didn't
think you would want to come. We'll invite you next time.
And then they invite you and then you're like, well
I can't go, So that might be confusing for them.
So if you just want to know, Okay, why was
I not invited? Was it because there is assumptions made
(12:22):
about me? Or was it because you don't want me
to go? Like maybe you just want clarification, but you
don't really want to be invited on that trip. Does
that make sense what I'm saying, Yeah, okay, yeah, so
be clear and what you need, because you might not
need an invitation. You might just need to feel like
they care about you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And then when you get that clarification, which I'm sure
they've been your best friends for it seems like a
really long time. I'm sure they do care about you.
And I never even thought about how the other person
may have said, oh I want to come. Yeah, I
just assumed, oh dang, the other single person got invited,
like that would hurt to see. But you're right if
you don't know, maybe she just was more like, oh
my gosh, I can get off that week, or I
would love to go, or it always looks so fun
(13:01):
when you'll take these trips, like do y'all mind if
I yeah, tackleng or yeah. So it could be as
simple as that, could be as simple as will.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
You we didn't know you wanted to go, But it
also sounds I could be reading to this email, it
sounds like she doesn't really want to go.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, But I understand the feeling because even those other times,
like there was one of the dinners, like I didn't
want to go, like I couldn't go. Not only could
I not go, but also I didn't really feel like
going that night. But I just it's hitting a wound
of your right, which is wanting to be wanted. That's right,
that's my primal question. Am I wanted? That's so true?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
So this could be for you too. It's like I
don't want. I feel that too, like I don't really
want to go. I just want you to want me there.
And maybe that's all I need is to know that
you care and that I would have been an asset
in an addition to that trip if I was there,
it wasn't that you didn't want me there. I would
have been welcomed in. That could be all you need.
It sounds like that's some of what you got from
(14:00):
He's like, why I know you couldn't go. Of course
I would want you to be there.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, I just think for me, us doing it over
the phone or in person, ours happened to be over
the phone, and that there was a little bit of
time separated, and I wasn't heightened because depending on my hormones,
like I can be, things can be magnified greatly. I'm like, gosh,
if this would happen a week ago, how would this
be impacting me? And that sometimes would have to pause
(14:24):
and ask myself that and maybe so I'm perimental pausal personally,
but other people might be hormonal for other reasons, and
I think it's okay. Sometimes you just take a pause, though,
and be like, give it a beat, see if you
still feel the same way instead of I know you
said you don't have a preference on exact timeline or
(14:46):
how to do it, but for me, I have to pause.
And then for me, I guess I never want to
be misunderstood on text with tone because texting is so hard.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
I think that probably the best for those kinds of
conversation is to say it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
And now we have voice memos, so that is helpful.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Oh yeah, voice memos are great.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
For people that conflict is really hard for calling somebody
or meeting up in person could keep them from doing it.
So if you're not going to do it unless you're
able to send a voice memo in a voice memo,
if you don't, you can say it and then you
can repeat it. My earring just fell out, you see that, Yeah,
and you can listen back to it to make sure
(15:27):
you're saying what you want to mean. I love a
voice memo because you're hearing the tone exactly, So I
think that's not a bad way to go about things.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
One time, I had to send a voice text that
I was really nervous about, but I did want to
them to hear my voice, and I typed it out
and I read it, but I read it casually so
it didn't look like or sound like I was reading it.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
You rehearsed it, It's okay.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I did because it was important to me. It meant
a lot, and I wanted it to be received in
with my my heart, with like the tone in which
I meant it. Like sincerely, and for me, that meant
I needed to write it out and rehearse it for
a second and.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Then read it.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But I mean, it couldn't come across as like, hey Cat, hi,
I was just wanting to talk to you. But there's
a way where you can like get the tone down
and they can be like, hey, Cat, just been thinking
about something and I wanted to go over this with you,
but you can have all of that written down before you,
especially with something that you do get nervous about. Yeah,
(16:41):
but I think voice text can be such a game changer.
People either love them or hate on it seems, and
I'm like, who are the people that don't really like them?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I don't get it. Well, okay, a voice text that's
five minutes long is tough.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I love the little funny videos online where they're like,
listen to my friend's voice text is like a podcast
and they're like making notes in the middle of it
so they know what to reply to.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Yeah, you really like that because you will send a
five minute voices.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I sure will, but I think that I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I don't gravitate towards them, or I didn't use to,
but now it is nice for that reason alone. It's like,
I really want somebody to be able to hear me
and how I'm saying it. So maybe we narrow this down.
You can do this in person or anonymous listener, send
a voice memo that that is a.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Way that allows you to be able to do it.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
It's not too scary, it's not too much, and you
can really come off how you want somebody to hear you.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
What about prefacing it? What do you think about that?
Like if you set it up like at the beginning
of either the call or the voice text or even
a text, do you ever encourage like, Hey, I am
about to share something or I have a question, but
I want you to like you stay at your heart
at the beginning. I want you to know my intention
(18:02):
behind this is this, and I'm yeah, this is the
place I'm coming from, and you state that out of
the gate, so that like if they have any guard up,
like it's immediately taken down so they know where you're
coming from. Sometimes that helps me to just state that
at the beginning, like I want you to know my
tone before you get in. And that's why maybe even
(18:23):
say I thought about sending a text, but I wanted
to do a voice text or I want to do
a phone call because I wanted you to actually hear
me that this is just I'm sort of just trying
to understand if there's some stuff I need to kind
of work through and if it's a silly thing that
I'm getting worked up over. Just stating that at the beginning,
so it just helps set the tone.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
I think that's reminiscent of the soft startup that they
talk about in Gotman therapy, when you are confronting somebody,
as you start with something positive and then you bring
that in, it is like you lay down the groundwork,
so then somebody is available to hear you the way
you are trying to come off, versus somebody's interpreting it
as you're speaking, and then you can always say like
(19:02):
at the end, like I hope that came out the
way I wanted it.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I would love to hear how you heard that. Let
me know whatever else you want to say.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Your hair looks pretty.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
D in a voice memo, are you telling me my
hair looks.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I was just trying to find something like, you know,
like I could see messing up the Gottman thing and
like just really being like.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
When you can't see them.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Wow, I like your hair. You smell good. I mean
just kidding, I know, not even in person. I know
we're not together right now, but you normally smell good, okay,
or like yeah, like some people just I can see
getting really awkward with that. But yeah, you just gotta,
especially if you're nervous.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So those people write out some.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Type it out, type it out, type it out, so
that way.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You're not like I could smell you through my voice moment.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, what's that you're wearing. Then you're
not gonna get invited anywhere. We do have coincidentally, a
voicemail that came in. Now, this is a voicemail we
got like in May, oh, but it relates to this topic,
(20:21):
so I pulled it. So this is fun. So sometimes
when y'all send an email or leave a voicemail, you
never know where it might end up in an episode
because we may need to wait till it finds its moment.
And yeah, it looks like this call was received May fourteenth,
and here we are in June. But the topic of
(20:41):
this voicemail is realization about feeling left out. So we're
going to play this voicemail from a listener, Ryan in California,
and it's sort of an epiphany that she had while
listening to one of our episodes about fear and excitement.
And I thought it was important to close out couch
Talks with this because we have an anonymous listener feeling
(21:04):
left out. I just had a left out moment with
my boyfriend, and now we've got this other listener, Ryan
sharing her perspective with it and something she was realizing
about herself, which may actually be speaking of primal questions,
a wound from her childhood that came up, and even
you'll hear get emotional in it. But for Cat and
(21:26):
I to get voicemails like this, it's really special because
you never know when something may resonate with you and
you have some epiphany just from hearing people talk, which
that's what Kat and I are doing. We're just having
a conversation and if something comes up for you, pay
attention to it. And I'm going to play this voicemail
and then we'll close out. But I really hope if
(21:46):
you have an epiphany like Ryan does here, that you'll
lean into it and you won't just let it pass by,
because there could be something deeper in fact, there is
something deeper there, like you'll hear for Ryan, and I
hope that from May to now maybe she's even talked
to somebody about it to kind of dig a little deeper.
(22:07):
So here's the voicemail.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
Hi, my name's Ryan from California. And I was listening
to your podcast about fear and Excitement and if you're
talking about her relationship a lot. And I had like
a realization moment when you were talking about how you
grew up in your past, and I think, like me,
it was probably the four question or something like that.
(22:30):
My father left what I was too, and never like
really fought.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
To be in my life.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
And I've always had this feeling that like I don't
like to be left out growing up, like in high
school and stuff. I want to get invited to a
party that my friends got invited to, and I always
took it way worse. And I also had the thing
that Kat was talking about, where like I love to
plan my birthday party and then right as I get
to my party, I'm like, oh my gosh, what if
(22:57):
nobody shows up, It's going to be horrible. I'm gonna
feels terrible. And so I just had like this realization
moment that potentially my father leaving when I was little
might have led to be like always feeling like I
have to see people when I'm in town, or like
if I'm always through. I was going through Portland one time,
(23:17):
and I make sure I stopped to see my cousins
because I don't ever want people to feel like I
don't care. So sorry, I'm emotional, but thank you for
doing this podcast because I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
So like she was just having that realization in that moment,
but I think hers was twofold, like, not only is
she feeling left out at times, but she seems to
work over time to make sure that other people don't
feel left out, which I think is great, but sometimes
that might be exhausting. You may not need to overextend
(23:54):
yourself in that way. So Ryan sharing her story and
then our listener email, nobody's feeling left out. You're not alone.
I think we've all experienced it in different ways. And
then also you maybe could take a look at if
you sort of exhaust yourself of trying to make sure
everybody feels included at all times, because that can probably
(24:14):
feel like it makes me think of two's on the
enneagram and sometimes like, what's your reasoning behind doing something so.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Well, I think, thank you for that, Ryan, Yeah, thank
you for sending that in because that also paints the
perfect picture of why it is so important to lean
in to feelings. And I think sometimes it might come
off as I'm projecting a little bit, but like annoying
reiterating that of.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Feel your feelings, feel your feelings, feel your feelings, and.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Then that is a portal to your needs that blanketly
it sucks to be left out, and this could be
a portal to you understanding that there's something.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
That you need. Maybe it might even be from yourself.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
It might be something you need to unpack with a therapist,
it might be from a friend. But these things that
might seem mundane, sometimes some people can say to themselves,
it's not that big of a deal. I didn't get
invited to this trip, like I need to get over it. Well,
even if you don't need to have a conversation with
your friend about it, you might need to have a
(25:23):
conversation with yourself because that's bringing something up in you,
and that in turn could help you get a need
met that you don't even realize is unmet. And that's
kind of what I heard in Ryan's voicemails, like I
didn't even know this was a thing, and now I'm
realizing that it's affecting me in all these ways, and
there's some stuff I need to unpack.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
If y'all want to leave us a voicemail, you can.
Our number is eight seven seven two O seven to
oh seven seven, And you can also email us for
couch Talks. If you want it to be a part
of couch Stocks, just put it in the subject line.
That would be very helpful, and also so stating if
you want to be anonymous or not, like this listener,
did you heard it out of the gate? Just keep
(26:07):
me anonymous and Kat and I will respectfully do that,
and if we're unsure, we're just gonna lean anonymous. But
we hope that you have the.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Day you need to have. Bye Bye,
Good.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
All right, break it down.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
If you ever have feelings that you just fons Amy
and Kat gotcha, coviing locking, No, brother, Ladies and folks,
do you just follow an the spirit where it's all
the front over real stuff to the chill stuff and
the m but Swayne, sometimes the best thing you can
do it just stop you feel things. This is Feeling Things.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
With Amy and Kat.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Happy Thursday, Welcome to Couch Talks the Q and a
episode to the Feeling Things podcast. I'm Amy and I'm Kat.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
And quick reminder before we get into today's email that
although we're answering questions from listeners, this does not serve
as replacement or substitute from actual therapy.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Correct. I second that, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
We have an email from a listener who would like
to remain anonymous, and she mentions that in the note,
So we'll just get right into it. Hey, Amy and Kat,
you two always get me through mundane, happy and hard days.
I would like to stay anonymous for this, but I
feel like it might help someone else as well. This week,
three of my best friends and their husbands and kids
went to the beach together. They do this every year,
(01:10):
but this year it hit harder than usual, and I
feel left out and less than I am never even
asked if I want to join, but I always invite
them to everything I do or might be doing, some
of which they attend, some of which they don't. I
feel like I'm not included because I work full time,
don't have a boyfriend or a husband or kids, or,
(01:31):
as I like to say, I'm not in the same
place as them. I don't know how to bring it
up without feeling like I'm causing some huge ordeal when
honestly I probably couldn't go anyway due to work and life.
Any suggestions on how to handle this while sitting at
home and seeing all of their fun on Instagram, or
how to approach this in person or via text? Which
(01:54):
do you suggest without seeming like I'm nagging? I think
it wouldn't bother me as much. But another single friend
of ours did get invited thanks in advance. Yeah, this
is hard, especially with Instagram. Can we just go back
to the nineteen nineties? Yeah? I get is that where
(02:15):
I go when people could go on trips and you
didn't have to hear about it or know about it.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I think that's a big part of this. Though I
have a lot of thoughts on this.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I wonder if she wasn't seeing it, would it feel
the same way if she she might know they have
gone together. But if you're like watching it from afar,
my first question would be she said that she was
feeling left out in less than, My first question would be, like,
when you're seeing what feelings are coming up for you
(02:45):
left out and less than? Is there loneliness in that?
Is there shame in that? And the less end part?
Because then that will guide you to what you really need.
Because something that stuck out to me here is that
even if she was invited, she doesn't know that she
would even be able to go. So do you want
to be invited? Do you just want to be considered?
Do you want to feel connected to those people? If
(03:07):
they did invite you, would you make the effort and
time to go.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well? I can sort of relate to this part a
little tiny bit, the part of just wanting to be asked.
I just had this conversation with my boyfriend two days ago.
It's something that came up organically. Thank goodness, I wasn't emotional.
I had already let it die down. But about two
(03:31):
weeks ago and then maybe two weeks before that. So
we have two events in the last month or so
where I wasn't invited to something. Now they happen to
be weeks that I have my kids. A little backstory
in case you're new here. I have two kids. My
boyfriend has three kids. We all hang out. Everybody's met.
(03:53):
That took some time, of course, but now it's not
a thing like we should be able to do stuff.
I mean, we're about to go on a vacation, all
of us together to the same place. So what happened was,
I guess there was two different times where his dad
was having people over. His dad and his stepmom, and
they live here in Nashville with us. It's very common
(04:14):
for them to gather. They live around the corner from
my boyfriend, so it's a common hangout. I've been included before,
like I went there for Thanksgiving, I went there for
other things. And then there was two different things that
came up where he's like, Oh, We're going over to
my dad's for dinner and I was like, oh, what
are y all celebrating? And it was sort of something
it was like end of year, like graduation type stuff.
(04:36):
And then there was like another thing oh, his sister's birthday,
And I thought, what happened? Like, I've been invited before
to holidays. I get it's her birthday, but I mean
it was their Thanksgiving and this is months later. So
I just felt in those moments, why is he casually
just being like, oh, yeah, we're going and not even mentioning, oh, hey,
(05:00):
I know you've got your kids, you probably won't come,
which I get my kids coming to that sort of thing.
It might still be a little bit much even though
they've met. I would just like the option to discuss it.
And there was one of the nights where it happened
where he just casually brought it up, and I'm like,
how long has this been planned? And why didn't he
invite me? And I remember being so hurt. Similar to her,
(05:22):
I felt less than I felt like, what are we
even doing? I could have spiraled easily, but I took
a few deep breaths and I'd let them go do
their dinner and I just didn't even bring it up. Well,
fast forward to two days ago. We were talking about
Father's Day, which has now come and past. But you
know this is podcasting the way we're filming it. Father's
(05:44):
Day was yesterday and we were talking about going over
to his dad's but I had my son with me,
and I said, oh, we're invited, and he was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
you and Stevenson can come to dinner. And I said, oh, okay,
well I didn't know I have been invited to the
last two things that y'all have done over there. And
of course he was like, wait, which two things are
(06:04):
you talking about? Like they weren't a big deal to him,
But of course I remembered every detail and that I
wasn't invited, and I was able to say it in
a calm way, and it came up organically. So when
I think of how she should maybe do it, I
don't think sending a text message is probably the best
way in my opinion. You may have a different take, cap,
(06:25):
but words can be tricky on text, and they can
read it in a defensive tone when you don't mean it.
But when it came up organically that now Stevenson and
I were going to go over to his dad's for
Father's Day, I was able to say, kind of in
a joking way, overcoming like oh, we can go, And
then I was able to say that there were two
(06:47):
dinners that I just was surprised there wasn't even a mention.
He goes, well, I knew you couldn't come, and.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Well he assumed you couldn't come, but he's right, I couldn't. Okay,
I couldn't. He's right.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It wouldn't have made sense at the time for one
of them, for sure, with my daughter, it just wouldn't
have made sense. So I explained to him when I've
been invited before and we're kind of doing things all
as families, and it just sort of didn't feel good
to suddenly not be asked, I said, because I feel
like if I were to have something going on, even
(07:21):
if I knew you couldn't come, I'm going to extend
the invite or say hey, if you're able to come by,
or I know you probably can't come. But I just
wanted you to know about this. I'm not just going
to casually be like, oh, we're doing this, I'll call
you after, because I know how this listener is feeling.
Though it's different it's with her best friends, but I
had those same feelings as a girlfriend, and I think
(07:45):
if I had brought it up in the moment, I
would have been way too emotional and made it this
big deal where he didn't really even hear me and
he'd be like, you're kind of being ridiculous. But I
waited for a moment where I wasn't even planning on
talking about it. It just came up and then I
was like, oh, yeah, this reminds me. This is how
I felt when this happened, and what it brought up
(08:06):
for me was this, and what I would like in
the future is this, and then that way that can
help you know, it alleviates any confusion of what I
think is happening with us, because, yeah, I don't want
to be naggy. I don't want to be dramatic. I
don't want to be too much, okay, but.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
You having needs and feelings isn't being naggy into great.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But that's why the way it worked out, I didn't
come across as any of that.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, I think I.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Had I brought it up in a heightened emotional state,
it would have been a little naggy and much for me.
For you, okay for me, yeah, other people might be
able to do that, But I'm glad that I had
this space.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
So I know.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
There's a really long story to kind of relate to
this listener that you're not alone and feeling this, and
I think that, yeah, a lot of people are feeling this,
whether it's with their best friends, it's with family members,
it's with partners.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Well, I think this, Yeah, this is a very common occurrence.
I think I've said this before, probably even on this podcast,
like I don't always want to go, but I want
to be thought of and considered and I want to
be invited. I want I want to be given the option,
and I think there might be a little bit of
that in here. But what I would be curious about
(09:22):
for her is would she not want to go on
this trip or she wouldn't be able to go on
this trip because she said in here somewhere like I
don't know if I.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Can even go because of work.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
But if you were invited, would you finagle your schedule
to be able to go on this or do you
just want to feel like you're included in this group?
Do you want to feel like they care about you
and they see you? So those are Do you want
to go or do you just want to know that
there's an option to go? Which both are valid. So
I would for her think about what it is your feelings,
(09:57):
So you said you were feeling hurt, So for her,
what are you feeling that's going to lead you to
what you actually need? And is there anything else that
this is bringing up for you? Is this bringing up
a story from your past? Does this feeling remind you
of a time when you were younger? And is that
getting in the way of what's happening now? Because there's
(10:18):
a lot of in her email, some assumption she's making,
and I think she just sounds like she wants more
information about why she's not included in and then there's
this other person that's included, So what is that about?
Are they making assumptions that I work a lot, so
I probably wouldn't want to go. Who knows, maybe this
other person that is single that went on the trip,
maybe she asked to go, you know, like we don't
(10:42):
know that. So I think what I hear is there's
a need for clarification on what you're feeling that can
lead you to what you need, and once you have that,
then you can decide how you want to approach it.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I think it's I don't have strong.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Feelings about texts, phone calls, in person on something like
this as long as you can articulate what you're feeling well.
And I don't have strong feelings about whether you wait
for it to happen organically or not, because this might
not come up organically true, and that might if you're
waiting for that to happen, but you're already like feeling
(11:18):
all these feelings and then you're watching these stories and
you know, might be building some resentment or more stories
happening as I'm watching the Instagram stories.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
It might be better to just like say, hey, I'm confused, Like.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
But you send it to them while they're on the trip. No,
I would probably wait, yeah, okay, good, but it's clarifying.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
You don't know if it's going to come up organically
like when you hang out with them.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
It might might not.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
But I think it's fine if it's important to you
to go ahead and have that conversation and like we
say a lot, stay really curious about what's going on
and know what you are wanting to get out of this.
Because my fear is and this is me not knowing
all the information, so there's I'm making assumptions. My fear
(12:00):
is you go to them and you say this. You
know I was feeling left out. I felt hurt, and
they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't know. I didn't
think you would want to come. We'll invite you next time.
And then they invite you and then you're like, well
I can't go, So that might be confusing for them.
So if you just want to know, Okay, why was
I not invited? Was it because there is assumptions made
(12:22):
about me? Or was it because you don't want me
to go? Like maybe you just want clarification, but you
don't really want to be invited on that trip. Does
that make sense what I'm saying, Yeah, okay, yeah, so
be clear and what you need, because you might not
need an invitation. You might just need to feel like
they care about you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And then when you get that clarification, which I'm sure
they've been your best friends for it seems like a
really long time. I'm sure they do care about you.
And I never even thought about how the other person
may have said, oh I want to come. Yeah, I
just assumed, oh dang, the other single person got invited,
like that would hurt to see. But you're right if
you don't know, maybe she just was more like, oh
my gosh, I can get off that week, or I
would love to go, or it always looks so fun
(13:01):
when you'll take these trips, like do y'all mind if
I yeah, tackleng or yeah. So it could be as
simple as that, could be as simple as will.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
You we didn't know you wanted to go, But it
also sounds I could be reading to this email, it
sounds like she doesn't really want to go.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, But I understand the feeling because even those other times,
like there was one of the dinners, like I didn't
want to go, like I couldn't go. Not only could
I not go, but also I didn't really feel like
going that night. But I just it's hitting a wound
of your right, which is wanting to be wanted. That's right,
that's my primal question. Am I wanted? That's so true?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
So this could be for you too. It's like I
don't want. I feel that too, like I don't really
want to go. I just want you to want me there.
And maybe that's all I need is to know that
you care and that I would have been an asset
in an addition to that trip if I was there,
it wasn't that you didn't want me there. I would
have been welcomed in. That could be all you need.
It sounds like that's some of what you got from
(14:00):
He's like, why I know you couldn't go. Of course
I would want you to be there.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, I just think for me, us doing it over
the phone or in person, ours happened to be over
the phone, and that there was a little bit of
time separated, and I wasn't heightened because depending on my hormones,
like I can be, things can be magnified greatly. I'm like, gosh,
if this would happen a week ago, how would this
be impacting me? And that sometimes would have to pause
(14:24):
and ask myself that and maybe so I'm perimental pausal personally,
but other people might be hormonal for other reasons, and
I think it's okay. Sometimes you just take a pause, though,
and be like, give it a beat, see if you
still feel the same way instead of I know you
said you don't have a preference on exact timeline or
(14:46):
how to do it, but for me, I have to pause.
And then for me, I guess I never want to
be misunderstood on text with tone because texting is so hard.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
I think that probably the best for those kinds of
conversation is to say it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
And now we have voice memos, so that is helpful.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Oh yeah, voice memos are great.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
For people that conflict is really hard for calling somebody
or meeting up in person could keep them from doing it.
So if you're not going to do it unless you're
able to send a voice memo in a voice memo,
if you don't, you can say it and then you
can repeat it. My earring just fell out, you see that, Yeah,
and you can listen back to it to make sure
(15:27):
you're saying what you want to mean. I love a
voice memo because you're hearing the tone exactly, So I
think that's not a bad way to go about things.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
One time, I had to send a voice text that
I was really nervous about, but I did want to
them to hear my voice, and I typed it out
and I read it, but I read it casually so
it didn't look like or sound like I was reading it.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
You rehearsed it, It's okay.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I did because it was important to me. It meant
a lot, and I wanted it to be received in
with my my heart, with like the tone in which
I meant it. Like sincerely, and for me, that meant
I needed to write it out and rehearse it for
a second and.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Then read it.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But I mean, it couldn't come across as like, hey Cat, hi,
I was just wanting to talk to you. But there's
a way where you can like get the tone down
and they can be like, hey, Cat, just been thinking
about something and I wanted to go over this with you,
but you can have all of that written down before you,
especially with something that you do get nervous about. Yeah,
(16:41):
but I think voice text can be such a game changer.
People either love them or hate on it seems, and
I'm like, who are the people that don't really like them?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I don't get it. Well, okay, a voice text that's
five minutes long is tough.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I love the little funny videos online where they're like,
listen to my friend's voice text is like a podcast
and they're like making notes in the middle of it
so they know what to reply to.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Yeah, you really like that because you will send a
five minute voices.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I sure will, but I think that I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I don't gravitate towards them, or I didn't use to,
but now it is nice for that reason alone. It's like,
I really want somebody to be able to hear me
and how I'm saying it. So maybe we narrow this down.
You can do this in person or anonymous listener, send
a voice memo that that is a.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Way that allows you to be able to do it.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
It's not too scary, it's not too much, and you
can really come off how you want somebody to hear you.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
What about prefacing it? What do you think about that?
Like if you set it up like at the beginning
of either the call or the voice text or even
a text, do you ever encourage like, Hey, I am
about to share something or I have a question, but
I want you to like you stay at your heart
at the beginning. I want you to know my intention
(18:02):
behind this is this, and I'm yeah, this is the
place I'm coming from, and you state that out of
the gate, so that like if they have any guard up,
like it's immediately taken down so they know where you're
coming from. Sometimes that helps me to just state that
at the beginning, like I want you to know my
tone before you get in. And that's why maybe even
(18:23):
say I thought about sending a text, but I wanted
to do a voice text or I want to do
a phone call because I wanted you to actually hear
me that this is just I'm sort of just trying
to understand if there's some stuff I need to kind
of work through and if it's a silly thing that
I'm getting worked up over. Just stating that at the beginning,
so it just helps set the tone.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
I think that's reminiscent of the soft startup that they
talk about in Gotman therapy, when you are confronting somebody,
as you start with something positive and then you bring
that in, it is like you lay down the groundwork,
so then somebody is available to hear you the way
you are trying to come off, versus somebody's interpreting it
as you're speaking, and then you can always say like
(19:02):
at the end, like I hope that came out the
way I wanted it.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I would love to hear how you heard that. Let
me know whatever else you want to say.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Your hair looks pretty.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
D in a voice memo, are you telling me my
hair looks.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I was just trying to find something like, you know,
like I could see messing up the Gottman thing and
like just really being like.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
When you can't see them.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Wow, I like your hair. You smell good. I mean
just kidding, I know, not even in person. I know
we're not together right now, but you normally smell good, okay,
or like yeah, like some people just I can see
getting really awkward with that. But yeah, you just gotta,
especially if you're nervous.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So those people write out some.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Type it out, type it out, type it out, so
that way.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You're not like I could smell you through my voice moment.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, what's that you're wearing. Then you're
not gonna get invited anywhere. We do have coincidentally, a
voicemail that came in. Now, this is a voicemail we
got like in May, oh, but it relates to this topic,
(20:21):
so I pulled it. So this is fun. So sometimes
when y'all send an email or leave a voicemail, you
never know where it might end up in an episode
because we may need to wait till it finds its moment.
And yeah, it looks like this call was received May fourteenth,
and here we are in June. But the topic of
(20:41):
this voicemail is realization about feeling left out. So we're
going to play this voicemail from a listener, Ryan in California,
and it's sort of an epiphany that she had while
listening to one of our episodes about fear and excitement.
And I thought it was important to close out couch
Talks with this because we have an anonymous listener feeling
(21:04):
left out. I just had a left out moment with
my boyfriend, and now we've got this other listener, Ryan
sharing her perspective with it and something she was realizing
about herself, which may actually be speaking of primal questions,
a wound from her childhood that came up, and even
you'll hear get emotional in it. But for Cat and
(21:26):
I to get voicemails like this, it's really special because
you never know when something may resonate with you and
you have some epiphany just from hearing people talk, which
that's what Kat and I are doing. We're just having
a conversation and if something comes up for you, pay
attention to it. And I'm going to play this voicemail
and then we'll close out. But I really hope if
(21:46):
you have an epiphany like Ryan does here, that you'll
lean into it and you won't just let it pass by,
because there could be something deeper in fact, there is
something deeper there, like you'll hear for Ryan, and I
hope that from May to now maybe she's even talked
to somebody about it to kind of dig a little deeper.
(22:07):
So here's the voicemail.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
Hi, my name's Ryan from California. And I was listening
to your podcast about fear and Excitement and if you're
talking about her relationship a lot. And I had like
a realization moment when you were talking about how you
grew up in your past, and I think, like me,
it was probably the four question or something like that.
(22:30):
My father left what I was too, and never like
really fought.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
To be in my life.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
And I've always had this feeling that like I don't
like to be left out growing up, like in high
school and stuff. I want to get invited to a
party that my friends got invited to, and I always
took it way worse. And I also had the thing
that Kat was talking about, where like I love to
plan my birthday party and then right as I get
to my party, I'm like, oh my gosh, what if
(22:57):
nobody shows up, It's going to be horrible. I'm gonna
feels terrible. And so I just had like this realization
moment that potentially my father leaving when I was little
might have led to be like always feeling like I
have to see people when I'm in town, or like
if I'm always through. I was going through Portland one time,
(23:17):
and I make sure I stopped to see my cousins
because I don't ever want people to feel like I
don't care. So sorry, I'm emotional, but thank you for
doing this podcast because I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
So like she was just having that realization in that moment,
but I think hers was twofold, like, not only is
she feeling left out at times, but she seems to
work over time to make sure that other people don't
feel left out, which I think is great, but sometimes
that might be exhausting. You may not need to overextend
(23:54):
yourself in that way. So Ryan sharing her story and
then our listener email, nobody's feeling left out. You're not alone.
I think we've all experienced it in different ways. And
then also you maybe could take a look at if
you sort of exhaust yourself of trying to make sure
everybody feels included at all times, because that can probably
(24:14):
feel like it makes me think of two's on the
enneagram and sometimes like, what's your reasoning behind doing something so.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Well, I think, thank you for that, Ryan, Yeah, thank
you for sending that in because that also paints the
perfect picture of why it is so important to lean
in to feelings. And I think sometimes it might come
off as I'm projecting a little bit, but like annoying
reiterating that of.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Feel your feelings, feel your feelings, feel your feelings, and.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Then that is a portal to your needs that blanketly
it sucks to be left out, and this could be
a portal to you understanding that there's something.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
That you need. Maybe it might even be from yourself.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
It might be something you need to unpack with a therapist,
it might be from a friend. But these things that
might seem mundane, sometimes some people can say to themselves,
it's not that big of a deal. I didn't get
invited to this trip, like I need to get over it. Well,
even if you don't need to have a conversation with
your friend about it, you might need to have a
(25:23):
conversation with yourself because that's bringing something up in you,
and that in turn could help you get a need
met that you don't even realize is unmet. And that's
kind of what I heard in Ryan's voicemails, like I
didn't even know this was a thing, and now I'm
realizing that it's affecting me in all these ways, and
there's some stuff I need to unpack.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
If y'all want to leave us a voicemail, you can.
Our number is eight seven seven two O seven to
oh seven seven, And you can also email us for
couch Talks. If you want it to be a part
of couch Stocks, just put it in the subject line.
That would be very helpful, and also so stating if
you want to be anonymous or not, like this listener,
did you heard it out of the gate? Just keep
(26:07):
me anonymous and Kat and I will respectfully do that,
and if we're unsure, we're just gonna lean anonymous. But
we hope that you have the.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Day you need to have. Bye Bye,
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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