September 21, 2021 • 20 mins
This is Amy’s ‘5th Thing’ (a bonus episode). ‘4 Things With Amy Brown’ comes out every Thursday, but on Tuesdays Amy shares emails from YOU. If you have a question for Amy or something our community needs to know about then please email the podcast: 4ThingsWithAmyBrown@gmail.com!! Can't wait to hear from you!
Thank you licensed therapist, @Kat.DeFatta, for joining us with your expert opinion on this listener's email about real human connection!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing, the bonus episode
to the Four Things podcast where I share emails that
you have sent in and sometimes I do four emails.
I get to that many. But today I've got Cat
Defaut to joining me. She's been on the podcast multiple times.
Hopefully a lot of you know who Cat is. If not,
she's a licensed therapist to also host her own podcast
(00:27):
called You Need Therapy. And Kat, thank you for being
here for this one email that we're going to go
over because I think it's an important topic and people
might not be able to relate directly to what she's
talking about, but sort of in general, just how social
media is kind of taking over our lives and it's
very very difficult to sometimes separate social from real life
(00:52):
and also maybe have intentional time where you put down
the phone and you actually connect with humans in real life.
Because I mean, do you feel like we struggle doing that?
What we struggled to do is to see what social
media is doing to us and what patterns it's creating
in us. All of a sudden, it feels like we
(01:13):
don't have like agency and power over our own lives
and these things that we get joy out of and
they are created, I think, to help turn into something
that take really important parts of our lives away. Yeah,
and then sometimes our joy is stolen because we get
online and we feel like our life is falling apart,
and then everybody else's life on social media is amazing.
(01:34):
And I always start Tuesday episodes off with a quote.
So I'm gonna actually just share a uh I guess
a meme or a post speaking of social media that
I saw Doc aim In post on Instagram and I
think he reposted it from Let's Talk Mental Health. But
it was this scraph that has kind of a a
(01:55):
smiley face and on one side that says what it
might look like from the outside, and it looks confident,
like things are great, and then after you peel back
the layers, you start to see confidence is there, but
there's also loneliness, unresolved trauma, depression, self hate, anxiety, insecurities.
(02:18):
So we are all these were these onions, but you know,
an onion, you peel back the layers, right, which, Hey,
pro tip if you ever have to peel onions and
it makes your eyes water or anything, you can just
put on ski goggles or swim goggles or something and
that will help because we all just have if you
(02:39):
don't have or swim goggles. If you don't have those,
then you can lie to match, burn it out and
let it like, let's don't keep the flame in. They'll
keep the flame going because you're gonna stick the match
in your mouth and let the where the flame parts
stick out, and then that will block something about that
blocks the onion fumes from going into your eye. Is
(03:00):
so anyway, I can't get derailed because Kat and I
are talking to keep this episode of the fifteen minutes
I am about. I'm going to turn into that night though,
and I'm gonna let you know if it works to
start making my fifth thing episodes a little more palatable
because there's so much content out there. I get it,
and I'm thankful to have this episode and and have
y'all listen and we get to connect in this way,
(03:22):
especially if you're sending an emails. I love that, but
I gotta respect the clock. So we are onions and
we all have all these layers going on, and I'm
going to read the email, but this is this is
a layer that's going on in somebody's life. And if
she's posting online she may not even showing this this
layer that she has, and she's really struggling with it.
(03:44):
Can I give you a quote to go along with that?
Really quick bonus? My favorite, One of my favorite things
to remind people is to stop comparing our insides to
everybody else's outsides. We see all of our insides. We
only usually see a lot of people's outside And that
is exactly what you're now That makes me want a
further my onion analogy, where it's like you get an
(04:06):
onion and you hold it up to your face, You're
probably not going to cry. You cut into it, unless
you have a match in your mouth, unless you use
unless you have tools in your tool belt from therapy. Okay,
here we go. This email is from you know what.
I didn't reply back to her to make sure that
I could read this, So I'm just going to keep
(04:26):
it as anonymous because I feel like it's kind of
a personal thing and I always like to get people's
permission sometimes if I have ever not in advance, I apologize,
but just I would just go ahead and disclosure. Assume
if you're emailing me and you do not put please
keep anonymous or I'd rather this not be shared on air.
I really appreciate that because that helps because I'm assuming
(04:47):
if you're emailing me and it's a question, then it's
kind of fair game. Hey, Amy, I was listening to
your September one episode, Have the Day you Need to have?
Which side note this is me talking here, not the
email cat you were on that at the SOOD, because
that's one of your sayings, have the day you need
to have? Back to the email, and there was some
talk about friends reaching out to other friends to check
(05:08):
on them, et cetera, as far as checking in on
mental health. As I was listening, I began to feel
a bit down. That has been weighing heavily on me
that my adult friendships have really dwindled in recent years.
I mainly just express whatever I need to talk about
to my husband. My friendships have decreased to only you know,
a snapchat every now and then, and as usually, just
(05:31):
showing off what everyone happens to be doing that day.
I started to think about how much Instagram influencers, TikTok
and podcasts have really taken the place of real life
relationships and friendships. For me, specifically, they do make me
feel connected to the world. Still, which was also mentioned
in this same podcast episode, but knowing that my only
(05:52):
real connection anymore is through a screen with a bunch
of strangers also feel sad. At the same time. I
would be interested to know if this is becoming more
and more common as social media has become the new norm,
and how it is really affecting people mentally, or maybe
it just has to do with my age group and
lifestyle choices. I'm thirty three, married without children. Regardless, I
(06:14):
am interested to know if this has been explored or
discussed as social media evolves over time, and where we
may be headed in the future. Maybe it is out
of convenience that it's easier to just open an app,
watch a couple of stories, videos, and updates whenever you
feel the need, and then close the app and get
back to whatever you were doing on your own time.
Thanks for all you do, Anonymous for now. I have
(06:43):
so many thoughts, Okay, I want to hear them. So
I have questions that that came up that I would
I would ask this person if I was with her,
it's her I'll give that much, is one of the questions.
Because you talked about connection and I'm can I feel
like I'm connecting with these people through all of these
(07:04):
media platforms, and I would ask what does connection actually
mean to you? And what does connection actually feel like?
Because connection is important? But what have we watered connection
down to? Because one of the things that helps people
who are quote unquote influencers, even I think, like as
a podcaster, one of the things that helps me create
(07:26):
connection with my listeners or somebody's followers is relatability. Right,
So you might relate to me, but are you actually
connecting to me? What does that mean? And what's the
difference between relating relatability and connection? Right? Well, and I
will say too, I think she's also referring to influencers,
but I can't speak for her, but I think she
(07:46):
also is referring to like catching up with some of
her friends, but just by watching their stories. Like I
am guilty of this. Like I'll watch my sister's stories
and I'll be like, oh, which side. No, my sister
is filming a TV show for HDTV, And I'll see
the story and be like, oh, she's filming all day today,
But I'll watch all the stories. And then I'll go
to her husband's page and watch his stories, just to
kind of see what they're up to, and then I
(08:07):
feel like, oh, it's kind of like I talked to
my sister today. I know she filmed. Don't need to
talk to her, and then we'll go days without talking
because I feel like I know what my sister is doing.
Talk because Okay, really my sister is like losing your mind,
just having anxiety. She doesn't be doing this. They're probably
helpful for her to talk to me and vent, but
then she doesn't have the time to call me. But
if I were to call and chicken on her, it
(08:29):
would be better. But I don't because I'm like, oh,
she's going to be and I already know. I'm guilty
of this too. I don't ever talk on the phone
because in my head, I'm like, oh, I already know
what they're doing. So we are trading connection for curated knowledge.
So I know what people are doing curated knowledge, but
it's curated, right. I'm only posting certain things, but I
think I have the whole story, but I really don't exactly.
(08:50):
You don't really know what's going behind the scene. Sister.
I'm like, oh, fun TV show, she's having a great day,
and really she's like, oh no, actually, this happened, This happened. This,
I'm about to lose my mind. Okay, So I'm so
excited about this. So I have this following Monday on
You Need Therapy, a guest that I don't know if
I've ever been except when you were on this excited
for an episode. Um, I talked to this freaking powerhouse woman.
(09:14):
Her name is Nabiha Sayed, and she is just an
incredible human but so smart and is really going out
into the world to try to help us. And we
talk about this. We talked about how Instagram has taken
a lot of our agency and our power away from
us and created patterns that actually aren't working for us,
but we think they are. And one go listen to
(09:37):
the full episode because I can never explain the stuff
as well as she did so well when it comes out.
So we need a teaser. But I mean we need
a teaser. You're about to say, we can't wasten to this.
Listen to what she asked me, and this is so simple,
but it blew my mind and it made me pause
for a second in the conversation because I was sitting
there and I was she was giving me this information
(09:58):
on how Instagram and big tech uses their information and
their research and whatever to take agency and power away
from us. Although it's not the reason that Instagram was created.
She said, we have to go back to the reason
that Instagram was created. Why was it created? And I said, well,
I think so we can like we can connect, and
we can express ourselves and we can share easier things
(10:19):
in our lives with people that we love. Like that
was my thought. And she was like, yeah, but that's
not why wise being used. Now, that's not why Instagram
is coming out with different things and different like tools
and add ins and whatever now because we've well we've ship. Yes,
well we shifted. And so I said, do I stop
using Instagram? She said no, She said, I love Instagram. One.
(10:40):
You can talk about creating boundaries with it. So create
boundaries around how you use Instagram and all that the
other things. She asked me. This is what blew my mind,
she said, Imagine Instagram was the same platform, but when
you got your you got it. You got your account.
For the entirety of your account, you can only have one.
You're only ever allowed to post a hundred photos. Ever, ever,
(11:02):
how would that change the way for the rest of
my life. You only get a hundred pictures, How would
that change the way you use it? Dang, I wouldn't
have posted so much from my Heart festival. I'm just kidding,
but really you wouldn't you would you would think about one.
I mean I loved. To be clear, I love Dieheart Festival,
but I would have been I would probably have not
posted the same my same outfit over and over. But
(11:25):
you know, people did love my Zara jeans. I will
say it, shout out Zara, because I mean, that's not sponsored.
I paid for my stuff, but my jeans were forty nine.
Every outfit you had was thank you, thanks amazing, so continue.
So I would have been. So it hosted one photo well, right,
because it will change how you post it. Then, as
(11:46):
a ripple effect, is going to change how often you're
getting on there because all the other people in the
world aren't going to be posting as much. And right now,
Instagram creates this this feeling and this need to constantly, constantly,
constantly constantly post because you have to keep your algorithm up,
and because people are constantly posting, people are constantly looking
because there's content to take in. But if you're only
(12:08):
posting one outfit. I just have to get on there
one time to see what Amy's wearing. I don't have
to get on there again in look. But with the
current set up, if I just person one photo, then
I'll never show up. Your story won't show up for
anybody exactly. So it's making us think that we don't
have agency and power over what we do and how
we use it. And there are programs that are being
created right now and other platforms that are being created
that are aimed and giving us our agency and our
(12:30):
power back. And I also don't think we have to
be like, oh, never get away from this, because if
we look back in our lives, we've gone through so
much stuff we were my Space was cool, and then
Facebook was cool, and then TikTok and then Twitter. Not
the right order, but you know what I mean. Once
we start to realize that this isn't actually doing what
we wanted it to do and and what we need,
then once we have that idea agency power control we
(12:54):
do have that we can shift and either use the
platform in a different way or transition one other thing
become available, because they will. But that's I think what
she's exactly what she's talking about right. First of all,
I would like to say to the email or you're
not alone at all. I'm not the only one feeling
that way. I bet there's twenty three year olds, ye olds,
fifty ye olds, all feeling way. It's not because you're
(13:16):
thirty three married, no kids. Um I'm forty kids married. Yes,
there's there's so much disconnect with my real world relationships
because of what I see online, because I do feel updated,
and I I'm the type where I'm I had to
rewire my brain on how I handle relationships and connection
(13:38):
anyway because of walls that I put up for so
long to protect myself. So not only am I working
too for myself normalized, just like phone calls all the
time to see what's up, because like in my family,
I mean, that's not what we did, and even my
sister and I we have to work on that. And
so I find myself doing that more with my friends.
(14:01):
And that's one thing that I felt like with some
of my friendships though especially some of my BFFs from
high school days or early twenties, I can go a
very long time without talking to them and we pick
or right back up where we left off. There's a
lot we need to update on, but we pick right
back up. But that's just the nature of our how
our friendship has gone. But there are some people, like
(14:23):
really really close to me, where I haven't been the
best at showing up for them because I had a
tendency for so many years of keeping people at arms length.
Yes I would say I was super close to them,
but that was a protection thing for me just in
case they ever left me, it wouldn't hurt as bad
because of some abandonment issues that I have. So there's
(14:44):
a lot that plays into how we behave with relationships
and friendships. But to the email or and anyone else listening, like,
if you're someone that like you want that real connection,
then you have to put down the phone, the social
media the platform type part of the phone and maybe
pick up the actual phone and FaceTime or make a
phone call, or if they live or you live, plan
(15:06):
a coffee or plan a lunch or happy hour whatever
that looks like for you, a walk and get that
one on one time connection so you don't just see
the highlight reel or feel like you've got the update
because of a you've got a snap shot of their day,
when really I'll go back to my sister as the
example that snapshot of the day wasn't accurate. And then
(15:28):
if I go on a walk with my sister, which
we don't live in the same state, but I'm doing
an example here. Hypothetically, if I were to go on
a walk with my sister, I would learn all the
things and then I would know how to better show
up for her as a sister and a friend. Curated
knowledge versus actual connection, Yes, and we need to be
striving for actual connection. However, the future which we are
(15:50):
now in the future and the future will only continue
to give us more futuristic things that makes it more
difficult to connect. Well. In the last thing that I'll
that I think is really important this conversation to say
on my part is that things like Instagram create an
idea that we need to be connected to more and
more and more and more and more and more and
(16:12):
people because we can I can post a picture and
a thousand people can see it in two hours versus
I call one friend and have a thirty minute conversation.
You don't have to have a million friends to be connected.
And I think that's almost like invisible, unconscious message that
(16:32):
social media has created in our minds, so it's back
to quality over quantity, Except for so many times we
get fixated on how many people have commented, how many
people have liked? Did my friend comment on this? I'll
get vulnerable here. It is yes, yes, I think already
said my age. I'll say it again at forty. And
I say that because you think at some point you'll
(16:53):
get to an age you don't care about things that
seem very high schoolish. But I will kind of look
and be like, oh, that's my friend. Why didn't she
like my photo? Or why didn't she leave me a
nice comment? And all these other people that I don't
know left me a nice commented to me, it would
like mean more if my friend did. But it's like, Okay,
what narrative do I have in my head right now?
(17:14):
Maybe my friend didn't see the post, And then I'm like,
are they mad at me because they didn't like my
post or commented? And it's literally like one of my
like I'm just using any like it could be like
a very close friend of mine. I've done it with
the numerous people in my life where I start to
second guess things because they didn't freaking comment on my
post and they're my friend. Okay. One that's not high
(17:36):
school because what you're saying is you want to be
liked and you want to want to be connected with
your friends. That's not high school. So I just will
say that. But I'm glad you said that because sometimes
I see your stuff on Instagram and I don't respond
to it on your story or comment because I'm like,
I wonder if she'll even see that, So I'll just
text you or to tell you when I see you, Like,
I don't think I commented I love your outfit this weekend, okay,
(17:58):
but I love don't know I think you did. I
s shoot. I saw her because I was like, oh,
that's so nice of cat. That okay. But I know
there have been times when I'm like, oh, she has
all these followers. I wonder if she'll be able to
how she even sees my stuff, So I'll just text her.
I do do that. I guess I didn't do with
outfit that example. Yeah, I know, I'm gonna go find it.
(18:19):
I'm scrolling. Oh, I think the one where I posted
it's two thousands million degrees outside and I thought it
was a good idea to where Jean's cool cool, and
you said you look so cool though, see what I
noticed that I knew you commented, but then you didn't
comment on the pink pants. Thanks a lot. Sorry, I
just told you all right, Well to the emailer, you
(18:42):
are not alone. And my encouragement to you and me
and Cat and anyone else listening is if you were
feeling this disconnect, well you were the only one that
can take responsibility for that. So you're not alone. You're
not doing anything wrong because we've been given all these
different ways to feel quote unquote connected to people. But
(19:05):
you've got to take the power back. If it's not
working for you, you have the power to change it exactly.
You could have just learned it in therapy, I know.
But well, yeah, I've been I've been working on getting
my power back and a lot of things. But I'm
sure I feel like I'm gonna say, yeah, I credit
Cat to thought of for that, But Cats not my
therapist to be b t W by the way that
(19:25):
would be ethical for her to be here probably would
be unethical. I mean, we've worked through some things that
I really wanted Cat to be on my podcast for
a long time. I have worked with her before, but
once we started working together, we ended that relationship because
it wasn't right. But speaking of that, Cat and I
do have some things in something, not things, something in
(19:46):
the works, and we will have an announcement for it
very very soon. Related to this podcast right here that
you're listening to. That is my that is my hint,
and it's related to the Fifth Thing, which may not
even be called the fifth Thing anymore. We don't know.
I will. I was in Las Vegas with some my
heart people and had a little meeting and I think
(20:07):
we've come up with a plan, and as soon as
I know how it's going to unfold, I will share
that with you. But in the meantime, if you want
to email in anything for the Fifth Thing or the
four Things podcast, just hit me up four Things with
Amy Brown at gmail dot com. And then you can
find Cat de Fata on Instagram at Cat dot k
A T dot de Fata d e f A T
(20:29):
t A and then obviously check out her. You need
therapy podcast, which you can subscribe to so that way
it'll pop up in your phone all the time and
you can be connected to yet another person online on
a podcast. But that does not replace your real relationships
all right by
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing, the bonus episode
to the Four Things podcast where I share emails that
you have sent in and sometimes I do four emails.
I get to that many. But today I've got Cat
Defaut to joining me. She's been on the podcast multiple times.
Hopefully a lot of you know who Cat is. If not,
she's a licensed therapist to also host her own podcast
(00:27):
called You Need Therapy. And Kat, thank you for being
here for this one email that we're going to go
over because I think it's an important topic and people
might not be able to relate directly to what she's
talking about, but sort of in general, just how social
media is kind of taking over our lives and it's
very very difficult to sometimes separate social from real life
(00:52):
and also maybe have intentional time where you put down
the phone and you actually connect with humans in real life.
Because I mean, do you feel like we struggle doing that?
What we struggled to do is to see what social
media is doing to us and what patterns it's creating
in us. All of a sudden, it feels like we
(01:13):
don't have like agency and power over our own lives
and these things that we get joy out of and
they are created, I think, to help turn into something
that take really important parts of our lives away. Yeah,
and then sometimes our joy is stolen because we get
online and we feel like our life is falling apart,
and then everybody else's life on social media is amazing.
(01:34):
And I always start Tuesday episodes off with a quote.
So I'm gonna actually just share a uh I guess
a meme or a post speaking of social media that
I saw Doc aim In post on Instagram and I
think he reposted it from Let's Talk Mental Health. But
it was this scraph that has kind of a a
(01:55):
smiley face and on one side that says what it
might look like from the outside, and it looks confident,
like things are great, and then after you peel back
the layers, you start to see confidence is there, but
there's also loneliness, unresolved trauma, depression, self hate, anxiety, insecurities.
(02:18):
So we are all these were these onions, but you know,
an onion, you peel back the layers, right, which, Hey,
pro tip if you ever have to peel onions and
it makes your eyes water or anything, you can just
put on ski goggles or swim goggles or something and
that will help because we all just have if you
(02:39):
don't have or swim goggles. If you don't have those,
then you can lie to match, burn it out and
let it like, let's don't keep the flame in. They'll
keep the flame going because you're gonna stick the match
in your mouth and let the where the flame parts
stick out, and then that will block something about that
blocks the onion fumes from going into your eye. Is
(03:00):
so anyway, I can't get derailed because Kat and I
are talking to keep this episode of the fifteen minutes
I am about. I'm going to turn into that night though,
and I'm gonna let you know if it works to
start making my fifth thing episodes a little more palatable
because there's so much content out there. I get it,
and I'm thankful to have this episode and and have
y'all listen and we get to connect in this way,
(03:22):
especially if you're sending an emails. I love that, but
I gotta respect the clock. So we are onions and
we all have all these layers going on, and I'm
going to read the email, but this is this is
a layer that's going on in somebody's life. And if
she's posting online she may not even showing this this
layer that she has, and she's really struggling with it.
(03:44):
Can I give you a quote to go along with that?
Really quick bonus? My favorite, One of my favorite things
to remind people is to stop comparing our insides to
everybody else's outsides. We see all of our insides. We
only usually see a lot of people's outside And that
is exactly what you're now That makes me want a
further my onion analogy, where it's like you get an
(04:06):
onion and you hold it up to your face, You're
probably not going to cry. You cut into it, unless
you have a match in your mouth, unless you use
unless you have tools in your tool belt from therapy. Okay,
here we go. This email is from you know what.
I didn't reply back to her to make sure that
I could read this, So I'm just going to keep
(04:26):
it as anonymous because I feel like it's kind of
a personal thing and I always like to get people's
permission sometimes if I have ever not in advance, I apologize,
but just I would just go ahead and disclosure. Assume
if you're emailing me and you do not put please
keep anonymous or I'd rather this not be shared on air.
I really appreciate that because that helps because I'm assuming
(04:47):
if you're emailing me and it's a question, then it's
kind of fair game. Hey, Amy, I was listening to
your September one episode, Have the Day you Need to have?
Which side note this is me talking here, not the
email cat you were on that at the SOOD, because
that's one of your sayings, have the day you need
to have? Back to the email, and there was some
talk about friends reaching out to other friends to check
(05:08):
on them, et cetera, as far as checking in on
mental health. As I was listening, I began to feel
a bit down. That has been weighing heavily on me
that my adult friendships have really dwindled in recent years.
I mainly just express whatever I need to talk about
to my husband. My friendships have decreased to only you know,
a snapchat every now and then, and as usually, just
(05:31):
showing off what everyone happens to be doing that day.
I started to think about how much Instagram influencers, TikTok
and podcasts have really taken the place of real life
relationships and friendships. For me, specifically, they do make me
feel connected to the world. Still, which was also mentioned
in this same podcast episode, but knowing that my only
(05:52):
real connection anymore is through a screen with a bunch
of strangers also feel sad. At the same time. I
would be interested to know if this is becoming more
and more common as social media has become the new norm,
and how it is really affecting people mentally, or maybe
it just has to do with my age group and
lifestyle choices. I'm thirty three, married without children. Regardless, I
(06:14):
am interested to know if this has been explored or
discussed as social media evolves over time, and where we
may be headed in the future. Maybe it is out
of convenience that it's easier to just open an app,
watch a couple of stories, videos, and updates whenever you
feel the need, and then close the app and get
back to whatever you were doing on your own time.
Thanks for all you do, Anonymous for now. I have
(06:43):
so many thoughts, Okay, I want to hear them. So
I have questions that that came up that I would
I would ask this person if I was with her,
it's her I'll give that much, is one of the questions.
Because you talked about connection and I'm can I feel
like I'm connecting with these people through all of these
(07:04):
media platforms, and I would ask what does connection actually
mean to you? And what does connection actually feel like?
Because connection is important? But what have we watered connection
down to? Because one of the things that helps people
who are quote unquote influencers, even I think, like as
a podcaster, one of the things that helps me create
(07:26):
connection with my listeners or somebody's followers is relatability. Right,
So you might relate to me, but are you actually
connecting to me? What does that mean? And what's the
difference between relating relatability and connection? Right? Well, and I
will say too, I think she's also referring to influencers,
but I can't speak for her, but I think she
(07:46):
also is referring to like catching up with some of
her friends, but just by watching their stories. Like I
am guilty of this. Like I'll watch my sister's stories
and I'll be like, oh, which side. No, my sister
is filming a TV show for HDTV, And I'll see
the story and be like, oh, she's filming all day today,
But I'll watch all the stories. And then I'll go
to her husband's page and watch his stories, just to
kind of see what they're up to, and then I
(08:07):
feel like, oh, it's kind of like I talked to
my sister today. I know she filmed. Don't need to
talk to her, and then we'll go days without talking
because I feel like I know what my sister is doing.
Talk because Okay, really my sister is like losing your mind,
just having anxiety. She doesn't be doing this. They're probably
helpful for her to talk to me and vent, but
then she doesn't have the time to call me. But
if I were to call and chicken on her, it
(08:29):
would be better. But I don't because I'm like, oh,
she's going to be and I already know. I'm guilty
of this too. I don't ever talk on the phone
because in my head, I'm like, oh, I already know
what they're doing. So we are trading connection for curated knowledge.
So I know what people are doing curated knowledge, but
it's curated, right. I'm only posting certain things, but I
think I have the whole story, but I really don't exactly.
(08:50):
You don't really know what's going behind the scene. Sister.
I'm like, oh, fun TV show, she's having a great day,
and really she's like, oh no, actually, this happened, This happened. This,
I'm about to lose my mind. Okay, So I'm so
excited about this. So I have this following Monday on
You Need Therapy, a guest that I don't know if
I've ever been except when you were on this excited
for an episode. Um, I talked to this freaking powerhouse woman.
(09:14):
Her name is Nabiha Sayed, and she is just an
incredible human but so smart and is really going out
into the world to try to help us. And we
talk about this. We talked about how Instagram has taken
a lot of our agency and our power away from
us and created patterns that actually aren't working for us,
but we think they are. And one go listen to
(09:37):
the full episode because I can never explain the stuff
as well as she did so well when it comes out.
So we need a teaser. But I mean we need
a teaser. You're about to say, we can't wasten to this.
Listen to what she asked me, and this is so simple,
but it blew my mind and it made me pause
for a second in the conversation because I was sitting
there and I was she was giving me this information
(09:58):
on how Instagram and big tech uses their information and
their research and whatever to take agency and power away
from us. Although it's not the reason that Instagram was created.
She said, we have to go back to the reason
that Instagram was created. Why was it created? And I said, well,
I think so we can like we can connect, and
we can express ourselves and we can share easier things
(10:19):
in our lives with people that we love. Like that
was my thought. And she was like, yeah, but that's
not why wise being used. Now, that's not why Instagram
is coming out with different things and different like tools
and add ins and whatever now because we've well we've ship. Yes,
well we shifted. And so I said, do I stop
using Instagram? She said no, She said, I love Instagram. One.
(10:40):
You can talk about creating boundaries with it. So create
boundaries around how you use Instagram and all that the
other things. She asked me. This is what blew my mind,
she said, Imagine Instagram was the same platform, but when
you got your you got it. You got your account.
For the entirety of your account, you can only have one.
You're only ever allowed to post a hundred photos. Ever, ever,
(11:02):
how would that change the way for the rest of
my life. You only get a hundred pictures, How would
that change the way you use it? Dang, I wouldn't
have posted so much from my Heart festival. I'm just kidding,
but really you wouldn't you would you would think about one.
I mean I loved. To be clear, I love Dieheart Festival,
but I would have been I would probably have not
posted the same my same outfit over and over. But
(11:25):
you know, people did love my Zara jeans. I will
say it, shout out Zara, because I mean, that's not sponsored.
I paid for my stuff, but my jeans were forty nine.
Every outfit you had was thank you, thanks amazing, so continue.
So I would have been. So it hosted one photo well, right,
because it will change how you post it. Then, as
(11:46):
a ripple effect, is going to change how often you're
getting on there because all the other people in the
world aren't going to be posting as much. And right now,
Instagram creates this this feeling and this need to constantly, constantly,
constantly constantly post because you have to keep your algorithm up,
and because people are constantly posting, people are constantly looking
because there's content to take in. But if you're only
(12:08):
posting one outfit. I just have to get on there
one time to see what Amy's wearing. I don't have
to get on there again in look. But with the
current set up, if I just person one photo, then
I'll never show up. Your story won't show up for
anybody exactly. So it's making us think that we don't
have agency and power over what we do and how
we use it. And there are programs that are being
created right now and other platforms that are being created
that are aimed and giving us our agency and our
(12:30):
power back. And I also don't think we have to
be like, oh, never get away from this, because if
we look back in our lives, we've gone through so
much stuff we were my Space was cool, and then
Facebook was cool, and then TikTok and then Twitter. Not
the right order, but you know what I mean. Once
we start to realize that this isn't actually doing what
we wanted it to do and and what we need,
then once we have that idea agency power control we
(12:54):
do have that we can shift and either use the
platform in a different way or transition one other thing
become available, because they will. But that's I think what
she's exactly what she's talking about right. First of all,
I would like to say to the email or you're
not alone at all. I'm not the only one feeling
that way. I bet there's twenty three year olds, ye olds,
fifty ye olds, all feeling way. It's not because you're
(13:16):
thirty three married, no kids. Um I'm forty kids married. Yes,
there's there's so much disconnect with my real world relationships
because of what I see online, because I do feel updated,
and I I'm the type where I'm I had to
rewire my brain on how I handle relationships and connection
(13:38):
anyway because of walls that I put up for so
long to protect myself. So not only am I working
too for myself normalized, just like phone calls all the
time to see what's up, because like in my family,
I mean, that's not what we did, and even my
sister and I we have to work on that. And
so I find myself doing that more with my friends.
(14:01):
And that's one thing that I felt like with some
of my friendships though especially some of my BFFs from
high school days or early twenties, I can go a
very long time without talking to them and we pick
or right back up where we left off. There's a
lot we need to update on, but we pick right
back up. But that's just the nature of our how
our friendship has gone. But there are some people, like
(14:23):
really really close to me, where I haven't been the
best at showing up for them because I had a
tendency for so many years of keeping people at arms length.
Yes I would say I was super close to them,
but that was a protection thing for me just in
case they ever left me, it wouldn't hurt as bad
because of some abandonment issues that I have. So there's
(14:44):
a lot that plays into how we behave with relationships
and friendships. But to the email or and anyone else listening, like,
if you're someone that like you want that real connection,
then you have to put down the phone, the social
media the platform type part of the phone and maybe
pick up the actual phone and FaceTime or make a
phone call, or if they live or you live, plan
(15:06):
a coffee or plan a lunch or happy hour whatever
that looks like for you, a walk and get that
one on one time connection so you don't just see
the highlight reel or feel like you've got the update
because of a you've got a snap shot of their day,
when really I'll go back to my sister as the
example that snapshot of the day wasn't accurate. And then
(15:28):
if I go on a walk with my sister, which
we don't live in the same state, but I'm doing
an example here. Hypothetically, if I were to go on
a walk with my sister, I would learn all the
things and then I would know how to better show
up for her as a sister and a friend. Curated
knowledge versus actual connection, Yes, and we need to be
striving for actual connection. However, the future which we are
(15:50):
now in the future and the future will only continue
to give us more futuristic things that makes it more
difficult to connect. Well. In the last thing that I'll
that I think is really important this conversation to say
on my part is that things like Instagram create an
idea that we need to be connected to more and
more and more and more and more and more and
(16:12):
people because we can I can post a picture and
a thousand people can see it in two hours versus
I call one friend and have a thirty minute conversation.
You don't have to have a million friends to be connected.
And I think that's almost like invisible, unconscious message that
(16:32):
social media has created in our minds, so it's back
to quality over quantity, Except for so many times we
get fixated on how many people have commented, how many
people have liked? Did my friend comment on this? I'll
get vulnerable here. It is yes, yes, I think already
said my age. I'll say it again at forty. And
I say that because you think at some point you'll
(16:53):
get to an age you don't care about things that
seem very high schoolish. But I will kind of look
and be like, oh, that's my friend. Why didn't she
like my photo? Or why didn't she leave me a
nice comment? And all these other people that I don't
know left me a nice commented to me, it would
like mean more if my friend did. But it's like, Okay,
what narrative do I have in my head right now?
(17:14):
Maybe my friend didn't see the post, And then I'm like,
are they mad at me because they didn't like my
post or commented? And it's literally like one of my
like I'm just using any like it could be like
a very close friend of mine. I've done it with
the numerous people in my life where I start to
second guess things because they didn't freaking comment on my
post and they're my friend. Okay. One that's not high
(17:36):
school because what you're saying is you want to be
liked and you want to want to be connected with
your friends. That's not high school. So I just will
say that. But I'm glad you said that because sometimes
I see your stuff on Instagram and I don't respond
to it on your story or comment because I'm like,
I wonder if she'll even see that, So I'll just
text you or to tell you when I see you, Like,
I don't think I commented I love your outfit this weekend, okay,
(17:58):
but I love don't know I think you did. I
s shoot. I saw her because I was like, oh,
that's so nice of cat. That okay. But I know
there have been times when I'm like, oh, she has
all these followers. I wonder if she'll be able to
how she even sees my stuff, So I'll just text her.
I do do that. I guess I didn't do with
outfit that example. Yeah, I know, I'm gonna go find it.
(18:19):
I'm scrolling. Oh, I think the one where I posted
it's two thousands million degrees outside and I thought it
was a good idea to where Jean's cool cool, and
you said you look so cool though, see what I
noticed that I knew you commented, but then you didn't
comment on the pink pants. Thanks a lot. Sorry, I
just told you all right, Well to the emailer, you
(18:42):
are not alone. And my encouragement to you and me
and Cat and anyone else listening is if you were
feeling this disconnect, well you were the only one that
can take responsibility for that. So you're not alone. You're
not doing anything wrong because we've been given all these
different ways to feel quote unquote connected to people. But
(19:05):
you've got to take the power back. If it's not
working for you, you have the power to change it exactly.
You could have just learned it in therapy, I know.
But well, yeah, I've been I've been working on getting
my power back and a lot of things. But I'm
sure I feel like I'm gonna say, yeah, I credit
Cat to thought of for that, But Cats not my
therapist to be b t W by the way that
(19:25):
would be ethical for her to be here probably would
be unethical. I mean, we've worked through some things that
I really wanted Cat to be on my podcast for
a long time. I have worked with her before, but
once we started working together, we ended that relationship because
it wasn't right. But speaking of that, Cat and I
do have some things in something, not things, something in
(19:46):
the works, and we will have an announcement for it
very very soon. Related to this podcast right here that
you're listening to. That is my that is my hint,
and it's related to the Fifth Thing, which may not
even be called the fifth Thing anymore. We don't know.
I will. I was in Las Vegas with some my
heart people and had a little meeting and I think
(20:07):
we've come up with a plan, and as soon as
I know how it's going to unfold, I will share
that with you. But in the meantime, if you want
to email in anything for the Fifth Thing or the
four Things podcast, just hit me up four Things with
Amy Brown at gmail dot com. And then you can
find Cat de Fata on Instagram at Cat dot k
A T dot de Fata d e f A T
(20:29):
t A and then obviously check out her. You need
therapy podcast, which you can subscribe to so that way
it'll pop up in your phone all the time and
you can be connected to yet another person online on
a podcast. But that does not replace your real relationships
all right by
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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