October 19, 2021 • 16 mins
Welcome to the '5th Thing' with Amy & Kat!!! We got an email from Audrey following an episode we did on Kat's You Need Therapy Podcast called "Changing the Narrative." She asked if we could share thoughts on forgiveness, tools we used to let go of negative feelings, and what we have done to change our screen/filter/script when necessary.
Please send emails for the 5th thing to 4ThingsWithAmyBrown@gmail.com
Thank you to licensed therapist, Kat Defatta, for joining us with her wisdom. You can find her on Instagram: @Kat.Defatta + @YouNeedTherapyPodcast
Best place to find out more about Amy: RadioAmy.com + @RadioAmy
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing with Amy and Cat.
And we always start these episodes off with a quote,
and today's comes from Dr Bessel vander Kolk, and he
is the author of Body Keeps the Score, something that
I've read, Cat, you multiple times, multiple times your memory.
I have the book, so I read it and the
(00:27):
audio and the audio because it's very scientific, and I
feel like the audio helped me comprehend things. Is better
than if I was just sitting there reading it because
it's a lot. It's heavy stuff, but very insightful and
mind blowing. At times you're like, oh my gosh, it's crazy.
So this quote is from him. Trauma is not a
(00:48):
memory of the past. The past is over. Trauma sits
inside of you and makes you feel and behave as
if it's still going on. And you know, Cat and
I have talked on several different episodes about how sometimes
when people hear the word trauma, they think it has
to be this big, huge life event, which yeah, for
(01:08):
some people, unfortunately they have experienced a major trauma that
we will never understand. But there's also little t there's
big tea, little tea, there's little traumas that can still
be sitting inside of you. Yeah. And if you think
about that quote and what it means to it's explaining
the experience that when people are having a response, whatever
(01:28):
that may look like a trauma response, they're responding to
patterns or relationships. If people talking about little tea like
relational patterns that they are still experiencing now, you know,
like maybe they're not in that relationship with their ex currently,
but in their body, they're still feeling and holding onto
those memories and the connections that they've made informed from that.
(01:51):
Or it could be a memory from your childhood with
your mom or your dad or something like that. And
that kind of leads into the email that I'm going
to share today from Audrey, and she wrote in and said, Hey, Amy,
I'm a longtime listener of the Bobby Bones Show, and
within the past year I've really gotten into your Four
Things podcast, the Outweigh podcast, and Now You Need Therapy,
which is the podcast that Cat hosts Shout Out. I
(02:14):
was listening to the episode titled Changing the Narrative with
you as Cat's guest, and I really felt like I
related to so much of what you were saying, particularly
when you spoke about not feeling loved, safe, and secure
as a child because your dad leaving your family. I
grew up with a similar experience, and to this day,
I really struggle with forgiveness and resentment. The effects of
(02:36):
growing up in a chaotic and unstable household still linger
with me and have has shaped a lot of my
inner thoughts about myself, especially the negative ones, which is
where I feel like I really relate to you and
cats podcast you talked about how because of your experiences,
it affected how you built other relationships in your life.
You said you felt like people didn't really like you,
(02:56):
so you kept people at a distance. I also do
this as an most thirty year old, and it sucks.
I do not want to feel and think this way anymore.
I know I need therapy, and thankfully because of the
way you openly and positively talk about seeking help, I'm
actually on a wait list to begin therapy. But in
the meantime, do you think you could answer the following
for me? How did you forgive your dad for what
(03:17):
happened in your childhood? What tools do you use to
move past holding onto those negative feelings? What do you
do to change your screen or your script when you're
thinking I am the problem. Thank you for taking the
time to read my email. I truly appreciate you, Lisa
Hame Cat de Fatah, and all that you've done for
me this last year. I believe I'm finally on the
path to being a happier, healthier me who loves herself.
(03:40):
I owe a lot of that to what y'all put
out into the world. These conversations are not ones that
are held in my day to day life, and they
mean more to me than I could ever put into words.
Thanks for your time, Audrey, which this is the reason
why we do what we do Cats on the Virgin Tears,
and that's super special. And I'll pass that along to
Lisa too, because I know I had a call with
(04:00):
Lisa the other day about her podcast, and so it
was like we're trying to figure out, you know, what
kind of content people want or was what we're even
doing work that's working? Should we even continue doing this?
And like reading an email like that gives the affirmation
of yeah, between outweigh and you need therapy and four
things and then Lisa's the truthiest life, like I love
(04:22):
our little you know, we've got a little little feely
a good thing going, but I'm glad it's impacted you, Audrey.
And to circle back to the questions about my dad
and how I forgave him for what happened in early
childhood and different things we went through. I think I
went through different phases of forgiveness my whole life. I
think I felt like I forgave him when I was
(04:45):
nine or ten because that's what I saw my mom
doing and she encouraged me to do it. And I
then feel like I went through a cycle in high
school where I had to revisit it again, and then
in college, and then honestly through my adult adulthood like
marriage and being a parent. I didn't really have any
of that coming back up again until my dad passed away,
(05:07):
and when I went and did some work and actually
did brain spotting on my dad or me and my relationship.
How would you phrase that? Did I do it on
my dad or brainspotting about my dad or so brain
spotting with him? Yes, so specifically geared towards my relationship
with my dad, and all this stuff came out and
I had to say to him, like I drew him
(05:29):
on this piece of paper or this big, huge piece
of butcher paper and we taped into the wall and
I talked to him, this drawn version of my dad,
and I told him like, I'm not mad at you anymore.
All this emotion came up, and it wasn't just because
he was dead. I honestly think that if I had
done that a month before he died, and I really
dug deep with some of the which what which is?
(05:49):
What brain spotting will do, it brings up all kinds
of things. I feel like I would have had a
moment of true healing that I desperately needed. And I
even did E M d R regarding my dad, and
that's something I didn't have the best E M d
R experience, because I think the woman that administered it
to me just wasn't the best. But I will say
she helped me in the process. We recreated the narrative
(06:11):
of the day my dad left, and I vividly remember
him walking out our back door in our laundry room,
and I remember he was leaving. I didn't quite understand
he had sat us down and said he was leaving,
like me and my sister and him and my mom
sat us down. And my dad traveled a lot for work,
and I was a kid, so I thought, oh, he's
leaving for work, But why is this so dramatic? So
(06:33):
I knew something was different. He was leaving with like
a little travel bag, not like his whole closet, you know.
So I ran back to my room and I got
this little teddy bear and I ran to the to
the back door and I gave it to him before
he left, because I guess I just knew, like this
is this is off, So you need my bear and
I want you to have it. And I couldn't remember
(06:54):
she would, you know, She asked me when we were
doing the memory like processing some of that, like if
I remembered him hugging me, telling me that I was
going to be okay, And I'm like, no, I don't.
She's like, well, we can do that, and so we
went back to that memory. I don't know how the
therapist would have handled this if it was like a
different situation, but for me, we rewrote that narrative to
(07:16):
where I went back in and I visualized it pretty
vividly that like my dad embracing me and holding me
at the back door, and I'm this nine year old
little girl, and you know, it was like thirty three.
I think I did this after my mom died, so
it was maybe like thirty four or something, and we
wrote the story. He looked at me and told me
(07:37):
everything's gonna be okay, and I love you, and then
he hugged me and walked out the door. And then
now that's what I think of I feel the hug.
So I don't know, like for me that is that
that narrative did did help me, And I don't know
what the unstable things that were going on in your home,
And I feel like Cat's the expert here. Shoshikin back
(07:59):
up that, like rebody's experience and what you're going through
is so different. So even what works for me may
not work for you. But since you asked about what
tools helped me move past holding onto some of the
negative feelings and changing the script, those things did help me.
But it's an ongoing process and I feel like whether
it's a big tier or a little tea, even if
(08:20):
you work through it, it can still pop up at
any given time. But yeah, you just kind of have
to have the tools to make sure you bring yourself
back and not get lost in it. So of a
(08:41):
lean into Cat Defato now passing the torch and passing
the torch take the mic. Well, Okay, this is making
me think of two things, and I think that's important
that you did say, like, everybody's experiences are different and
they will cope and they will find what they need differently.
This is but this is bringing up two things from
You're kind of talking about something called reparenting, which is
(09:06):
really powerful and basically pretty much anybody can benefit from
it this and from some part of their life. But
reparenting is giving you giving yourself what you needed as
an adult or what you needed as a child. As
an adult, you're doing it, but you're giving yourself as
an adult what you needed as a child. Yes, and
so you're you're creating this story in your head and
that's what you needed and and you're envisioning it from
(09:28):
your dad offering that to you. But the cool thing
is if you can't do that, if somebody's like, oh,
that's not gonna work for me, a lot of times,
what I'll do is, Okay, as a kid, you are
not I mean you you get what you get, Like,
you are not in control of a lot of stuff.
You cannot meet all of your needs yourself as a child.
The cool thing is, depending on how you look at it,
you're a child, You is with you forever, that that
(09:51):
person always is always going to be with you. And
so as an adult, when you're still having the experiences
that are tied from your past, you can, as an adult,
because you now have the ability to meet your own needs,
can offer that to that kid. And that can be
through stuff like m DR and visualizations. It also can
be like, what did you not get as a kid?
(10:11):
Won't my parents never did anything fun with me, Like
I never want to remember them take me to the
park or taking me to McDonald's and getting a happy meal,
or coloring with me or doing my homework with me. Okay,
so their assignment that we might be take yourself to
the park and like get a happy meal. And that
might sound like weird, but also it's not. And it
(10:31):
can be really emotional, powerful, powerful and emotional yeah, because
you are realizing that, Wow, like people let me down,
because people will do that. People are imperfect, and for
the most part, I believe that like our parents and
the people that care for us do the best they
can with what they know and what they have. The
problem with that is a lot of times in reality
(10:52):
is not what you need and it's not enough. And
so the powerful thing is we don't have to stay
in that idea that like I can't get what I
need and and the people around me cannot, like I
can't get my needs met. As an adult, you can
go back and do that, and that can be really cool.
You gain a lot of power. It's not the same.
It's not the same, I think. There you can always
hold the experience of like, I really wish I did
(11:15):
this as a kid, and you can have an experience
that I can still offer that to myself. The other
thing that this made me think about is I have
a weird take on forgiveness. I don't think that we
all always need to forgive people to move on or
get our needs met. And in our world, I think
that there's a lot of like forced forgiveness of you
(11:36):
don't need to hold onto that energy and all those
things that people say of don't let that person whatever,
And so you do this forced forgiveness thing, but you're like,
do you really forgive them? Are you just saying that yeah?
Or what's the saying of Like if you're you're the
one not forgiving somebody it's like you drinking a slow
poison or yes, yeah, yeah, And I'm like, maybe maybe
(11:56):
that could be it. But also like there's people in
my life that I'm never going to if I'm honest,
I'm never going to forgive them for what they did. Now,
can I understand it totally? Can I find compassion for
that totally? Does that mean I have to forgive it?
What about you? Because as a Christian? Like, how do
you deal with that? Deal with that? What do you mean? Well?
(12:18):
I don't know, because I just feel like forgiveness. I
feel like people might be thinking this because I am
as a Christian, Like, I'm just thinking like we're taught
forgiveness and that we've been forgiven, so we should be
able to forgive. So I don't know. I'm just curious.
Probably a whole another episode is but I want to
talk about it because we have to remember that we
are human beings. We are human, so we can't do
(12:41):
everything perfectly. We aren't going to be able to do that,
and we can't force ourselves to feel that. I'm here
for that. Okay, I just thought I was just a
little side. No, we don't need to get derailed with it.
But just asking. But I do think that if you
think about the compassion side, that kind of speaks to that.
So I'm not over here like creating voodoo to ass
of these people like I like, I'm scared now to
(13:04):
like forget. I'm not like spending my nights like praying
something bad happens to them or when revenge. When I
can find compassion for people that have hurt me and
have done things that I can't find myself space to
forgive them for, I can understand why they did that
and let that be just that. Oh I get it.
I get why you did that. Not okay, I get
(13:26):
why you did it. Yeah, okay, interesting, I have a
whole episode on that. Oh you do what is it?
It's called force forgiveness. Oh, forced forgiveness. You need therapy
podcasts wherever you listen to podcast and make sure you're
getting the Cat Defato one. Oh, apparently there's another person
that's recently just started with a podcast with the same name,
So just make sure it's Cat k A T. Defata
(13:50):
And thank you for your your insight on that cat.
And then Audrey, we appreciate your emails so much and
it's so cool you're on the wait list to begin therapy,
because I will say, like cats podcast, you need therapy,
and then even anything we talk about here in the
Fifth Thing or on Four Things episodes, depending on who
I have on the topics, maybe a resource and tools
for you to have or just you know, for you
(14:10):
to feel comforted and not alone. And but it's not
a replacement for therapy at all, and I feel like
this episode was kind of heavy in that area, so
I just want to make sure I make that clear
and that if you do have time or the resources
to seek professional help, that's obviously ideal, especially if you're
dealing with trauma of any kind that might literally be
(14:31):
affecting you in your body. And I highly recommend reading
Body Keeps Its More, Body Keeps the Score. I feel
like I said that too fast or downloading it on
audible or something, because that book it's really really good.
So thank you Cat for the chat with me. And
I just wanna make sure everybody knows that Cat and
(14:52):
I are on Instagram. I'm Radio Amy and she is
at cat defata KA T dot D E F A
T T A and how you can send an email
in for the Fifth Thing if you want us to
cover anything or answer any questions you have four things
with Amy Brown at gmail dot com. You can find
me there. Just put fifth thing in the subject line.
(15:13):
And then also radioim dot com will take you to
a lot of places, like the Bobby Bones Show. It'll
take you to my Amazon favorites page, It'll take you
to the shot Forward if you're looking for any Pimp
and Joy or Spua items that support Haiti or anything.
Four Things. It's kind of like this podcast, even though
the podcast was inspired by our four Things tote that
we have, like our four Things line inspired the podcast,
(15:35):
which normally you would think maybe the merch came after,
but it's not really that. That's our that's like our line.
But in a way, if you're part of the four
Things community, it's like we've got podcast merch already built in.
We've got all kinds of four things items. The one
I'm wearing currently is It's fine. I'm fine, Everything is fine.
(15:56):
So it's got a spaw on the sleeve, which is
spaw means hope in Haitian create all and it's just
a reminder that this pullover helps spread hope in Haiti.
Like I might not be fine, but it's fine. At
least this helped project meta share in Haiti Boom. All right,
we'll talk to you all later. Bye bye,
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing with Amy and Cat.
And we always start these episodes off with a quote,
and today's comes from Dr Bessel vander Kolk, and he
is the author of Body Keeps the Score, something that
I've read, Cat, you multiple times, multiple times your memory.
I have the book, so I read it and the
(00:27):
audio and the audio because it's very scientific, and I
feel like the audio helped me comprehend things. Is better
than if I was just sitting there reading it because
it's a lot. It's heavy stuff, but very insightful and
mind blowing. At times you're like, oh my gosh, it's crazy.
So this quote is from him. Trauma is not a
(00:48):
memory of the past. The past is over. Trauma sits
inside of you and makes you feel and behave as
if it's still going on. And you know, Cat and
I have talked on several different episodes about how sometimes
when people hear the word trauma, they think it has
to be this big, huge life event, which yeah, for
(01:08):
some people, unfortunately they have experienced a major trauma that
we will never understand. But there's also little t there's
big tea, little tea, there's little traumas that can still
be sitting inside of you. Yeah. And if you think
about that quote and what it means to it's explaining
the experience that when people are having a response, whatever
(01:28):
that may look like a trauma response, they're responding to
patterns or relationships. If people talking about little tea like
relational patterns that they are still experiencing now, you know,
like maybe they're not in that relationship with their ex currently,
but in their body, they're still feeling and holding onto
those memories and the connections that they've made informed from that.
(01:51):
Or it could be a memory from your childhood with
your mom or your dad or something like that. And
that kind of leads into the email that I'm going
to share today from Audrey, and she wrote in and said, Hey, Amy,
I'm a longtime listener of the Bobby Bones Show, and
within the past year I've really gotten into your Four
Things podcast, the Outweigh podcast, and Now You Need Therapy,
which is the podcast that Cat hosts Shout Out. I
(02:14):
was listening to the episode titled Changing the Narrative with
you as Cat's guest, and I really felt like I
related to so much of what you were saying, particularly
when you spoke about not feeling loved, safe, and secure
as a child because your dad leaving your family. I
grew up with a similar experience, and to this day,
I really struggle with forgiveness and resentment. The effects of
(02:36):
growing up in a chaotic and unstable household still linger
with me and have has shaped a lot of my
inner thoughts about myself, especially the negative ones, which is
where I feel like I really relate to you and
cats podcast you talked about how because of your experiences,
it affected how you built other relationships in your life.
You said you felt like people didn't really like you,
(02:56):
so you kept people at a distance. I also do
this as an most thirty year old, and it sucks.
I do not want to feel and think this way anymore.
I know I need therapy, and thankfully because of the
way you openly and positively talk about seeking help, I'm
actually on a wait list to begin therapy. But in
the meantime, do you think you could answer the following
for me? How did you forgive your dad for what
(03:17):
happened in your childhood? What tools do you use to
move past holding onto those negative feelings? What do you
do to change your screen or your script when you're
thinking I am the problem. Thank you for taking the
time to read my email. I truly appreciate you, Lisa
Hame Cat de Fatah, and all that you've done for
me this last year. I believe I'm finally on the
path to being a happier, healthier me who loves herself.
(03:40):
I owe a lot of that to what y'all put
out into the world. These conversations are not ones that
are held in my day to day life, and they
mean more to me than I could ever put into words.
Thanks for your time, Audrey, which this is the reason
why we do what we do Cats on the Virgin Tears,
and that's super special. And I'll pass that along to
Lisa too, because I know I had a call with
(04:00):
Lisa the other day about her podcast, and so it
was like we're trying to figure out, you know, what
kind of content people want or was what we're even
doing work that's working? Should we even continue doing this?
And like reading an email like that gives the affirmation
of yeah, between outweigh and you need therapy and four
things and then Lisa's the truthiest life, like I love
(04:22):
our little you know, we've got a little little feely
a good thing going, but I'm glad it's impacted you, Audrey.
And to circle back to the questions about my dad
and how I forgave him for what happened in early
childhood and different things we went through. I think I
went through different phases of forgiveness my whole life. I
think I felt like I forgave him when I was
(04:45):
nine or ten because that's what I saw my mom
doing and she encouraged me to do it. And I
then feel like I went through a cycle in high
school where I had to revisit it again, and then
in college, and then honestly through my adult adulthood like
marriage and being a parent. I didn't really have any
of that coming back up again until my dad passed away,
(05:07):
and when I went and did some work and actually
did brain spotting on my dad or me and my relationship.
How would you phrase that? Did I do it on
my dad or brainspotting about my dad or so brain
spotting with him? Yes, so specifically geared towards my relationship
with my dad, and all this stuff came out and
I had to say to him, like I drew him
(05:29):
on this piece of paper or this big, huge piece
of butcher paper and we taped into the wall and
I talked to him, this drawn version of my dad,
and I told him like, I'm not mad at you anymore.
All this emotion came up, and it wasn't just because
he was dead. I honestly think that if I had
done that a month before he died, and I really
dug deep with some of the which what which is?
(05:49):
What brain spotting will do, it brings up all kinds
of things. I feel like I would have had a
moment of true healing that I desperately needed. And I
even did E M d R regarding my dad, and
that's something I didn't have the best E M d
R experience, because I think the woman that administered it
to me just wasn't the best. But I will say
she helped me in the process. We recreated the narrative
(06:11):
of the day my dad left, and I vividly remember
him walking out our back door in our laundry room,
and I remember he was leaving. I didn't quite understand
he had sat us down and said he was leaving,
like me and my sister and him and my mom
sat us down. And my dad traveled a lot for work,
and I was a kid, so I thought, oh, he's
leaving for work, But why is this so dramatic? So
(06:33):
I knew something was different. He was leaving with like
a little travel bag, not like his whole closet, you know.
So I ran back to my room and I got
this little teddy bear and I ran to the to
the back door and I gave it to him before
he left, because I guess I just knew, like this
is this is off, So you need my bear and
I want you to have it. And I couldn't remember
(06:54):
she would, you know, She asked me when we were
doing the memory like processing some of that, like if
I remembered him hugging me, telling me that I was
going to be okay, And I'm like, no, I don't.
She's like, well, we can do that, and so we
went back to that memory. I don't know how the
therapist would have handled this if it was like a
different situation, but for me, we rewrote that narrative to
(07:16):
where I went back in and I visualized it pretty
vividly that like my dad embracing me and holding me
at the back door, and I'm this nine year old
little girl, and you know, it was like thirty three.
I think I did this after my mom died, so
it was maybe like thirty four or something, and we
wrote the story. He looked at me and told me
(07:37):
everything's gonna be okay, and I love you, and then
he hugged me and walked out the door. And then
now that's what I think of I feel the hug.
So I don't know, like for me that is that
that narrative did did help me, And I don't know
what the unstable things that were going on in your home,
And I feel like Cat's the expert here. Shoshikin back
(07:59):
up that, like rebody's experience and what you're going through
is so different. So even what works for me may
not work for you. But since you asked about what
tools helped me move past holding onto some of the
negative feelings and changing the script, those things did help me.
But it's an ongoing process and I feel like whether
it's a big tier or a little tea, even if
(08:20):
you work through it, it can still pop up at
any given time. But yeah, you just kind of have
to have the tools to make sure you bring yourself
back and not get lost in it. So of a
(08:41):
lean into Cat Defato now passing the torch and passing
the torch take the mic. Well, Okay, this is making
me think of two things, and I think that's important
that you did say, like, everybody's experiences are different and
they will cope and they will find what they need differently.
This is but this is bringing up two things from
You're kind of talking about something called reparenting, which is
(09:06):
really powerful and basically pretty much anybody can benefit from
it this and from some part of their life. But
reparenting is giving you giving yourself what you needed as
an adult or what you needed as a child. As
an adult, you're doing it, but you're giving yourself as
an adult what you needed as a child. Yes, and
so you're you're creating this story in your head and
that's what you needed and and you're envisioning it from
(09:28):
your dad offering that to you. But the cool thing
is if you can't do that, if somebody's like, oh,
that's not gonna work for me, a lot of times,
what I'll do is, Okay, as a kid, you are
not I mean you you get what you get, Like,
you are not in control of a lot of stuff.
You cannot meet all of your needs yourself as a child.
The cool thing is, depending on how you look at it,
you're a child, You is with you forever, that that
(09:51):
person always is always going to be with you. And
so as an adult, when you're still having the experiences
that are tied from your past, you can, as an adult,
because you now have the ability to meet your own needs,
can offer that to that kid. And that can be
through stuff like m DR and visualizations. It also can
be like, what did you not get as a kid?
(10:11):
Won't my parents never did anything fun with me, Like
I never want to remember them take me to the
park or taking me to McDonald's and getting a happy meal,
or coloring with me or doing my homework with me. Okay,
so their assignment that we might be take yourself to
the park and like get a happy meal. And that
might sound like weird, but also it's not. And it
(10:31):
can be really emotional, powerful, powerful and emotional yeah, because
you are realizing that, Wow, like people let me down,
because people will do that. People are imperfect, and for
the most part, I believe that like our parents and
the people that care for us do the best they
can with what they know and what they have. The
problem with that is a lot of times in reality
(10:52):
is not what you need and it's not enough. And
so the powerful thing is we don't have to stay
in that idea that like I can't get what I
need and and the people around me cannot, like I
can't get my needs met. As an adult, you can
go back and do that, and that can be really cool.
You gain a lot of power. It's not the same.
It's not the same, I think. There you can always
hold the experience of like, I really wish I did
(11:15):
this as a kid, and you can have an experience
that I can still offer that to myself. The other
thing that this made me think about is I have
a weird take on forgiveness. I don't think that we
all always need to forgive people to move on or
get our needs met. And in our world, I think
that there's a lot of like forced forgiveness of you
(11:36):
don't need to hold onto that energy and all those
things that people say of don't let that person whatever,
And so you do this forced forgiveness thing, but you're like,
do you really forgive them? Are you just saying that yeah?
Or what's the saying of Like if you're you're the
one not forgiving somebody it's like you drinking a slow
poison or yes, yeah, yeah, And I'm like, maybe maybe
(11:56):
that could be it. But also like there's people in
my life that I'm never going to if I'm honest,
I'm never going to forgive them for what they did. Now,
can I understand it totally? Can I find compassion for
that totally? Does that mean I have to forgive it?
What about you? Because as a Christian? Like, how do
you deal with that? Deal with that? What do you mean? Well?
(12:18):
I don't know, because I just feel like forgiveness. I
feel like people might be thinking this because I am
as a Christian, Like, I'm just thinking like we're taught
forgiveness and that we've been forgiven, so we should be
able to forgive. So I don't know. I'm just curious.
Probably a whole another episode is but I want to
talk about it because we have to remember that we
are human beings. We are human, so we can't do
(12:41):
everything perfectly. We aren't going to be able to do that,
and we can't force ourselves to feel that. I'm here
for that. Okay, I just thought I was just a
little side. No, we don't need to get derailed with it.
But just asking. But I do think that if you
think about the compassion side, that kind of speaks to that.
So I'm not over here like creating voodoo to ass
of these people like I like, I'm scared now to
(13:04):
like forget. I'm not like spending my nights like praying
something bad happens to them or when revenge. When I
can find compassion for people that have hurt me and
have done things that I can't find myself space to
forgive them for, I can understand why they did that
and let that be just that. Oh I get it.
I get why you did that. Not okay, I get
(13:26):
why you did it. Yeah, okay, interesting, I have a
whole episode on that. Oh you do what is it?
It's called force forgiveness. Oh, forced forgiveness. You need therapy
podcasts wherever you listen to podcast and make sure you're
getting the Cat Defato one. Oh, apparently there's another person
that's recently just started with a podcast with the same name,
So just make sure it's Cat k A T. Defata
(13:50):
And thank you for your your insight on that cat.
And then Audrey, we appreciate your emails so much and
it's so cool you're on the wait list to begin therapy,
because I will say, like cats podcast, you need therapy,
and then even anything we talk about here in the
Fifth Thing or on Four Things episodes, depending on who
I have on the topics, maybe a resource and tools
for you to have or just you know, for you
(14:10):
to feel comforted and not alone. And but it's not
a replacement for therapy at all, and I feel like
this episode was kind of heavy in that area, so
I just want to make sure I make that clear
and that if you do have time or the resources
to seek professional help, that's obviously ideal, especially if you're
dealing with trauma of any kind that might literally be
(14:31):
affecting you in your body. And I highly recommend reading
Body Keeps Its More, Body Keeps the Score. I feel
like I said that too fast or downloading it on
audible or something, because that book it's really really good.
So thank you Cat for the chat with me. And
I just wanna make sure everybody knows that Cat and
(14:52):
I are on Instagram. I'm Radio Amy and she is
at cat defata KA T dot D E F A
T T A and how you can send an email
in for the Fifth Thing if you want us to
cover anything or answer any questions you have four things
with Amy Brown at gmail dot com. You can find
me there. Just put fifth thing in the subject line.
(15:13):
And then also radioim dot com will take you to
a lot of places, like the Bobby Bones Show. It'll
take you to my Amazon favorites page, It'll take you
to the shot Forward if you're looking for any Pimp
and Joy or Spua items that support Haiti or anything.
Four Things. It's kind of like this podcast, even though
the podcast was inspired by our four Things tote that
we have, like our four Things line inspired the podcast,
(15:35):
which normally you would think maybe the merch came after,
but it's not really that. That's our that's like our line.
But in a way, if you're part of the four
Things community, it's like we've got podcast merch already built in.
We've got all kinds of four things items. The one
I'm wearing currently is It's fine. I'm fine, Everything is fine.
(15:56):
So it's got a spaw on the sleeve, which is
spaw means hope in Haitian create all and it's just
a reminder that this pullover helps spread hope in Haiti.
Like I might not be fine, but it's fine. At
least this helped project meta share in Haiti Boom. All right,
we'll talk to you all later. Bye bye,
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
Popular Podcasts
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.