Recovery. Disordered Eating Triggers. What Is Your Lie. Ending Food Guilt.

FIRST THING: Amy and her sister Cristi {@cristidozier} talk about Amy’s recovery from her disordered eating. Cristi shares her perspective from watching Amy’s struggle with this and how much change and growth she has seen in her. 

SECOND THING: Amy shares an Instagram post from Jeniffer Rollins {@jennifer_Rollin} about the triggers that can cause an eating disorder or disordered eating. 

THIRD THING: What is a lie that goes through your head? Cristi shares a journal exercise that she worked through and how much this practice has affected her. They get into how and why their personal lies began. 

FOURTH THING: Lisa Hayim {@thewellnecessities} posted a blog about the 9 ways to help end food guilt and Amy shares these awesome tips with you! 

Best places to find more about Amy: RadioAmy.com + @RadioAmy

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, little food for yourself life. Oh it's pretty, but
it's pretty beautiful than that A little moth kicking four.

(00:32):
So Christie, let's talk about our experience at the grocery
store in Colorado a couple of weeks ago. Right. I
mean I didn't tell you at the time that thoughts
were going through my head. Words of affirmation are my
love language. So I think even at the grocery store,
which you didn't explain to me in detail what you
were thinking and experiencing shopping with me now that I'm

(00:53):
in this recovery phase of my eating disorder. But I
remember turning an aisle, maybe about to check out or something,
and I said something along the lines of, so, have
you noticed how easy I've been? Right, you're kind of
wanting some words of affirmation. Honestly, I was noticing it
in my head. I just didn't say anything out loud.

(01:15):
Words of affirmation is not my strong point, honestly to
other people. So if I had recognized you needed that, well,
but you prompted it, don't worry. I asked for it. Well,
I just wanted to know if you noticed, and you said, yeah,
I noticed, But it wasn't until later on that we
had a real conversation about it, and other things started
to come out beyond just the anxiety that I gave

(01:37):
you anytime we would grocery shop together or eat as
a family together. So I'm gonna sit back and let
you share with people your experience with my eating disorder.
Because when you have something like that going on or
disordered eating, whatever it is for you, body image issues,
you're altering your lifestyle and it could potentially affect other people.

(01:58):
You don't realize what you're doing is so annoying affecting
and how it's affecting, and it may be annoying might
not be the word, but I know for me looking back,
I'm like, wow, I was annoying, but I also made
you feel weird about things and how did you second
guessing every little move? But you can talk people through

(02:18):
it just so that they can maybe know what they're
putting others through and not to feel bad about it,
but just to have a full picture understanding of what
other people might be going through. Or if if anybody
listening is living with someone that was like me, or
how's a friend or a loved one that's like me,
they can say, oh, gosh, okay, somebody gets me like

(02:40):
I'm not alone. Well, just to go back to the
grocery store. I think things were going through my head
and so it wasn't until you brought it up, like, hey,
are you noticing that I'm not being difficult at the
grocery store? And I was in my head. I was like, actually, yes,
yes I am. You know, because as I was picking
out this, that or the other, whether it was a
cheese or a salad. You know, you are one who

(03:01):
always wanted to read the label, and sometimes you put
things back or grab something extra that was the same
exact thing, but maybe that fell into a category that
you thought was better for my approved list, right you
had you had like lists, and it changed. And that's
the thing, like things would change, and all of a sudden,
you're on this kick and then you know, you're gone.

(03:22):
We don't see each other for a little and you
come back and I'm like, oh, guess what I have?
And you're like, oh, I don't need that any work,
you know, and it's like I can't keep up with
all your things. You know, You're always like and what
was amazing? You know one week a few weeks later
is not amazing and more because there's something different and
better and everybody has their own things, and I think
you really do, and you really have just kind of

(03:42):
learned what works for you and kind of your perspective
on eating has changed. And I like the term disordered eating,
I guess a little bit better than eating. Disorder. Well,
it's a different stuff. Well there's different because well for
me and I'm no expert, I bring the experts on,
but from my understand ending and I hadn't really labeled
anything as disordered eating until I did outweigh with Lisa,

(04:05):
and that's the first time I started seeing. I started
following different Instagram accounts and people that this is their
passion and they want to help people. And so there's anorexia,
there's bulimia, there's like clinically diagnosed bolimia and anorexia. There's
times where people may go a day without eating. Does
that mean there are eighty pounds and they need to
be in a clinic somewhere. No, but they are depriving

(04:28):
themselves of food because of a certain goal that they
have or feeling that they have. Then there's people that
throw up maybe once a week, or there's people to
throw up fifty times a day, so there's different levels
of extreme where outweigh. We were speaking to more of
the people that were like us because we're not again,

(04:50):
I'm not an expert. You need to go get and
I'll go ahead and give a disclaimer here if you're
listening to this, if you have something extreme like that,
our advice would be to seek for fashional help, because
we want you to say, help save your life, because
that's what I remember. Julie Cox, a family friend of
ours a long time ago, when I met with her
about when I was throwing up. She told me she said,

(05:12):
every time you throw up, it's a slow suicide. And
that's stuck with me, but it's still didn't keep me
from doing it. And then I saw an article somewhere
recently too, if you have thrown up consistently for five
years or more, you should go get your esophagus checked
out because of the damage that you're doing. And for me,
I wasn't ever fifty times a day. I wasn't even

(05:33):
ten times a day. I was more of a every
once in a while if it was really bad, maybe
every day for a few days and then totally stop
or whatever. So eating disorder category disordered eating, body image issues,
body dysmorphia would be orthorexia, where you are obsessed with
ingredients and certain types of food and healthy things and

(05:54):
you're overly healthy, like it gives you anxiety. If you
can't control that, you try to. I've had all had that, right,
I've had times where I haven't. I didn't know there
was a name to that I have. I need to
listen to time series where I've thrown up. I have
times where I've just controlled every little detail of what
I put in my body, which would be orthorexia. I have,
you know, different trying every different fad diet known to man,

(06:17):
and that was kind of a thing being known for.
What was the next thing I had disordered eating? If
I couldn't go to a family dinner and sit down
at the table and just eat what was being served
to me and enjoy it that was made with love,
like from you or Dad or mom, I couldn't do that.
I had to show up with my own food and
my own ingredients and my own thing. So that's and
I would get to the point where I would just

(06:38):
designate you to bring the salad in exactly so that
you could make the salad how you wanted it, and
addressing how you wanted it. You know, I'm a nine
on the indiogram, which is a peacemaker. So I'm not
going to be the one that's going to be confrontational
about things. I'm going to try and just adapt to
whatever is going to keep the peace a little bit.
But I think there was a couple of times where
I was like, Okay, this is getting a little bit ridiculous.

(06:59):
And I know think I knew the extent what was
going on in your mind. I didn't always know all
your battles with the Bluelie man, the binging and the purging.
So and to clarify some of my story, which I
shared it fully on Outwag episode two, and that is
a four part series that aired on four Things podcast
back in April every Saturday. You can go find the episodes,
but I share my full story there. But I started

(07:22):
throwing up in high school, but then I stopped in college,
and then I didn't throw up at all. I mean,
I didn't realize I had disordered eating, though it stuck
with me what I was doing from college until mom
died exercising. I was exercising a lot. I was trying
every meal plan. Yes, like that is disordered eating. So

(07:43):
to help again wrap up the definition of that, if
there was any confusion, that's why there is. There's different
little projets. Was than just one thing that you were
set on. Then after mom died, the day after she died,
the throwing up was back. And to me, it blew
my mind because I remember I didn't know the throwing
up it started, but I remember what happened. We pulled
over and you were like, I'm getting a pizza. Huh,

(08:06):
I don't remember this. You got a pizza? You have
to tell me. I don't because basically what happened that
whole I feel like and well, I remember it because
I was just kind of I wasn't even thinking about eating,
and people were dropping off food at my house, and
you know Mom was in hospice care and not doing
that good, and then she came to the house, so

(08:26):
we had a lot of food in the house, but
I just didn't feel like eating and we had you know,
your in laws were constantly going and picking up juice
land for us, and you would only get juice. You
were only drinking fruit. The tiger lily, not even the
apple only tastes like water down spin. It just kind
of what it was like, and I was like, I

(08:46):
can't do that. Just get me a Wonder shows in
it at least had almond butter and whatever. So I'm
living off Wonder shows and smoothies and you're just living
off juice. And right after Mom died, I remember we
were driving and you know, was that little pizza place
right by my house When we're driving past it and
You're like, I'm going to get a pizza, and in
my head I was like, oh, she's going to get
a pizza, okay, And like we picked up the pizza

(09:09):
and you you ate the whole thing. It was a
veggie pizza. I think you probably purged later. I'm sure
I did, but I don't. But I think it started,
okay right then, and I just wasn't aware of what
was happening and that this was like a way that
you were coping with things, and well, it started when
it started. I mean, I'm sure that's what I did
with the pizza, and it's weird. I don't remember that,

(09:30):
but I'm sure I remember it. It's a mixture of
grief and mourning that I don't remember certain things of control,
lack of control, and then well xan x wine. So
there's a lot that's a little bit of a blur.
I mean, our mom had just died, so that's interesting
you remember that, and I'm sure that's exactly what that was.

(09:51):
But your birthday was the day after she died, and
you're in laws decided to have a little party at
the house and got a food truck. It was this
weird thing, sing where did you have a lobster roll?
I did, and then maybe some fries or something. I
don't remember, but I hadn't really eaten all day, and
I ate that and something about me because again I
hadn't thrown up in years, years and years and years

(10:13):
after I ate something about me that felt wrong. I
was trying to explain to my therapist and even we
talked through it on that wagh. It's it's like, I'm
supposed to be grieving right now. Grieving people don't eat.
I need to get rid of this. So I went
over to Kristen's house, your neighbor, and like their pool house,
and I threw it up and that's when it started. Okay,
then I haven't listened to that part of the out

(10:34):
way that you talked about it, and you and I
haven't really talked, I know, because I felt the same way.
It was like it was a different feeling that I had,
like I'm not supposed to be celebrated today because it
was my birthday, and I was like, how do I
celebrate in the middle of this? You know, But that's
where it all. That's when the throwing up for me
came back. Just so you understand the timeline. Then that
added another layer back into the mix. So not only

(10:57):
was I now reintroducing the purging, but I had binging
than I had the orthorexia. I mean, I had it all.
I bound you know everyone, I've seen all of that,
I think in you just over the years, ever since
high school, college when you used to like try and
run marathons and do all this over exercising kind of
under eating over exercising type of stuff. But just to

(11:19):
revisit really quick, back to what I've noticed just these
last few weeks, especially when you're in Colorado, well, and
it's the last few weeks. I'll just people hate when
I cut people off, but I just want to paint
the picture. She always covered me off she's joking. I'm
used to it, but I know I'll get an email like, well,
why didn't you just let your sister talk? But I'm
gonna say that it's the last few weeks for you
because we've been together, Like I was in Colorado with

(11:40):
you and now you're here with me in Nashville, so
we've been together a lot more. But I've been putting
in the work for a year and a half now. No,
I'm saying that I haven't spent we haven't spent a
ton of time together, obviously because of quarantine and different things.
But even even last visit at the beginning of the year,
when I was in Nashville, I noticed some differences like
on us ordering food and what we had and what

(12:03):
the experience was like, you know, because typically it would
be kind of stressful to go to a restaurant with
you because you basically want the waitress to like lay
out every ingredient and how it was cooked and where
it was from and is it this and is it that? Oh,
can you sub this and sub that? And actually I
brought my own dressing, it's in my purse, you know,
or like different things that you would do, and that's

(12:24):
obviously part been part of your journey. But then what
I've noticed, even just recently, obviously the grocery store experience,
was you seemed more free at the grocery store and
there wasn't a lot of like micromanaging my choices. And
then also that night we were cooking. I remember we
were grilling chicken and I was marinating the chicken, and
I wasn't even like totally aware of my thoughts. But

(12:45):
but then I realized if I started being more aware
of my thoughts as I was marinating the chicken, I
was putting like spices and apple cider, vinegar and olive
oil in a bag and the chicken breasts in there
to marinate. And I was just waiting for you to
want to read my spice star you know, ingredients, or
to come over and double check what kind of you know,
olive oil I was using, or oil maybe I wasn't

(13:06):
supposed to use olive oil. Maybe you wanted me to
use avocado oil or some other oil or no oil.
I mean, I just it's it's always been so hard
to know, and you did it, and I remember, I
think I brought it up, and I just like, you
know what I just noticed I just marinated this chicken
and you were in here. I was sort of trying
to hide the spice bottle from you, and you saw me.
You didn't say anything, and I was like, I think

(13:28):
you're growing, you know, in this area of being free
of a lot of the bondage you've you've been in
over food, and it is it's a heavy thing, but
it's a very real thing. You know, it's probably been
a struggle. You know, There's been times I've cooked things
and I remember you weren't doing dairy and and I
had made something and I was like, she's not really
allergic to dairy, and this sauce is so much better

(13:49):
with like two tablespoons of cream in it. And it
was like a lemon wine sauce and with chicken. And
you took one bite of it. This was years ago,
and then you went, oh, my gosh, it's there dairy
and this it was like you were mad at me
for what I had made. And you know, in our family,
cooking is sort of a love language. Like that's kind
of what our our dad, you know, how he showed
love he cooked for people. But then when you're cooking

(14:12):
for people and then someone's always micromanaging or it's not
the right thing or whatever. And if you're like truly
allergic to something, that's you know, that's a total different issue.
But your needs and everything were constantly changing, and there's
a self anybody could like nobody could really keep up. Um.
So to see you growing through it, I think it

(14:34):
is encouraging and give give people hope out there for
what the steps are that are necessary to just break
free from the bondage that some people feel under an
over food body issues. I mean, all of those things,
those those have been your things. And I don't know
why that is my thing because when I started therapy
in high school after told MoMA had started throwing up,

(14:57):
they would pinpoint it to, well, your dad left when
you were younger, and this is how you're coping with it,
And maybe that is the case. I don't know for
sure that I buy fully into that now, but I
really feel like I started dieting at such a young age.
What I've learned is that when you start to restrict,
your brain is starving and it starts to want more,

(15:21):
So then you start eating more when you can't control it,
and then you over eat and then some people are like, well,
I got to figure out how to get rid of this,
and then they start purging, and then that cycle begins,
and then it's also my therapist has told me too,
it's behaviors like binging, their depressants for the central nervous system,
sort of like alcohol. They can create a numbing feeling,

(15:42):
especially and if anybody has been caught in that mindless
eating cycle, you almost feel like it's an out of
body experience. When you throw up. There's a certain euphoric
feeling that comes along with it, and then you're sort
of disassociated from reality in that world, and there there's
a lot of feelings that are either felt and then
not felt with it. So it's like this great combo.

(16:05):
And for me, whatever I was using that to cope
with either the dad's stuff or why I use dieting,
I don't know. But you never started dieting at a
young age because dad left you too. So then I thought, well,
why did my sister end up with eating disorders or
disordered eating or issues. I think I think I just
started trying to perform certain ways, like if I just

(16:27):
make these decisions and and don't do these things and
be you know, even though I failed in different ways.
I think on the outside, I just wanted to look
like I had everything together. Where I was on the inside,
I really was falling apart. No one could know, you know,
And I couldn't ever show Dad I was angry because
if I showed him I was angry, then he might
not ever come back, and you know which he didn't.

(16:47):
But to mom, I was trying to perform perform to
a in a sense. Yeah, okay, so, and that's something
I've always struggled with, and I think we might get
into that later, like like what is the lie you've
always believed and when did it enter in? Yeah, we'll
do that in the third thing, But did you ever
diet at a young age? I don't remember, and I

(17:09):
don't have enough self control for that. But that's that's
the thing. I think that again food, I just like food. Well,
but there's time. Well no, but here's my thought on that. Yes,
there's the angle of like I could have used it
as a way to deal with the dad's stuff, but
also neurologically, there's just some stuff I messed up, possibly

(17:30):
by starting to diet so young, and whatever caused me
to do that. In securities, diet culture, it's everywhere. When
Mom was doing things too at the time, like in
the nineties, there was all there butter with the spray butter.
I used to use like half a bottle of spray
butter on a waffle and I was like, I'm so

(17:51):
healthy right now, this is fat free. Get the spray,
just open it right. And we did have a family
that lived with us for a little bit because they
were anyway, it doesn't really matter, but they lived with
us for a little bit. I think I was you
were gone, but I was probably eight or ninth grade,
and the mom ate a certain way. That's when diet
foods were first brought into our house, and I think

(18:13):
I was exposed to that. And so I think as
moms we have to be super careful with our kids
about not putting them through any sort of dieting because
that is going to mess them up long term down
the line. And I wish that someone did feel like
Mom was like, Amy, you should know that free better.
But I don't think she was like, no, Amy, don't

(18:35):
worry about that. Love your body, you don't need that.
I think it was there was just was no conversation
about it. You want fat free snack walls. Okay, we'll
buy them. And then she would go through times where
she would kind of make those like weird cabbage soups,
and she would do she did the Master Cleans. Remember
when she did the lemon juice cay in and maple

(18:57):
syrup for ten days? Yes, and apple cider. Yeah, maybe
I don't remember. But so many people have emailed in
after listening to the Outweigh series and said that their
moms passed on to them the weight watchers culture, the points,
the and if you do any of that. I'm not
knocking a particular brand, so don't at me. I'm just

(19:19):
saying that was very popular at the time, and so
and moms because of how they grew up and it
was just part of the time. I think they didn't
know any better, and they're like, oh well, I'll just
put my kid on points, and then it creates this
whole messed up thing and then they have to weigh themselves,
and it's just not it's such a bigger picture that
I'm being exposed to with that we have as a

(19:42):
society or fat phobic and we all have been told
this is the body type you're supposed to look like,
which is not attainable for most of society, and it's
probably airbrushed correct. And then some people, yes, are naturally
like that, or some people are literally starving themselves to
get there, but you don't know that. You just see
them on a magazine and then you think, we'll shoot,

(20:02):
that's how I'm supposed to look, So what do I
need to do to get that? But I am personally
seeing a shift, and maybe it's because of what I'm
surrounding myself with. But I'm thankful for the people that
are putting themselves out there and are super wise and
educated in this area. There's so many different things to
be passionate about, but there is a crop of dietitians

(20:25):
and leaders in that that are kind of shunning the
old ways of nutrition work and dietitian work of like, hey,
this is what we need to be focusing on now.
We don't need to necessarily tell someone to lose weight
just because they don't weigh what this other person weighs.
Weight does not equal health, and for so long we've
been told that weight equals health. Thank you for giving

(20:47):
an update on where I was and where I am now,
because again, like you said, it can be encouragement to others.
It doesn't happen overnight. Again, I started really putting in
the work and quit purging a year and a half ago.
But it's taken that long putting in the work to
where I can go to the grocery store and not
have anxiety, or I can go to a restaurant and
not be obnoxious. Yeah, no, it's been I see a

(21:12):
lot of growth. So I would say people can trust
the insight that you give on on your path to
get there. So Jennifer Rowland, who is on our Outweigh series,
is an awesome follow on Instagram registered dietitian coach counselor.

(21:36):
She really is doing a lot of amazing work in
the eating disorder world. And she put up a post
on Instagram that I want to go over and it
says what can contribute to e D development? And the
post said eating disorders are considered biopsychosocial illnesses and stem
from a variety of factors rather than one single cause,

(21:56):
which you know, the first thing we were talking about
how therapist try to say, oh, yeah, this is you
filling avoid for your dad. So it wasn't that single cause.
I don't believe. Also, genetics can play a factor temperament example,
for some people not everyone, a tendency towards perfectionism, harm avoidance. However,

(22:17):
some of these are more linked to impulsivetivity, rigidity, rigidity, rigidity,
that's how I say you learned to her reverse well
because need for order in their life, someone that's rule bound,
and tendency towards anxiety. Also environmental factors which can include oppression, racism, sexism,

(22:41):
fat phobia, food insecurity, trauma, bullying, modeling from others, and
going on a diet. So there's a lot that can contribute.
So if you're ever sitting around and you're trying to
pinpoint and figure out what caused me to be this way, well,
it could be any number of these things. Probably just
usually like a perfect storm of things. I mean, it's

(23:02):
not one thing, but it's well. And I want people
to know that you're normal. If you're experiencing something and
you're nothing is wrong with you, and there is hope
and you're not alone. And I hope that you could
get some help if you needed it. But I know
that that's not possible for everybody. And again, I know

(23:24):
it seems silly to say we'll follow some of these
Instagram accounts, But that's a place where you can get
some real encouragement and it's free, and it's usually real stories.
And Jennifer herself. What I like about Jennifer and then
even Lisa, they both have been through it. They're both
in recovery and so you see the hope there. But
then they're giving. They've made it their life's work and

(23:46):
their mission to help people find the freedom. So for me,
you know, we talked about it earlier, I don't know.
I can't pinpoint it for sure. I think I know
what caused it. And for me, I think the bulk
of it was dieting before my before it's too early,
my brain was fully developed. Some studies show that if

(24:06):
you diet as an adult but not as a kid,
you won't develop the same type of disorders because your
brain is fully developed. But if you start it too young,
that's when it it kind of can go into survival mode,
and then you've wired your brain that way, and that's
why you can eat neat and neat and neat, and
then figure out how to get rid of it and starve, starve, starve,

(24:27):
and then your body's like shoot, feed me, feed me,
feed me. So it's a vicious cycle. But as an adult,
you can still create unhealthy patterns, but it's just a
lot harder to break if you started when you're a kid.
A lot of what was described I felt like described you,
all those different things that they said, but also a
lot of them described me, you know. And I didn't
move into that disordered eating. But when I talked about perfectionism,

(24:51):
the thing that popped in my head about you because
I wouldn't necessarily say you're a perfectionist, not but in
some ways, yes, yes, yes you are. Because at a
young age, do you remember when you wanted every hangar
in your closet needed to be white plastic? Yeah, and
right now I want them to be all black. Felt um, Well,
at the time, we mainly just had like those wire hangers,

(25:12):
you know, like that you get at the cleaners, like
the wire ones, and that's what all our hangars were.
And I remember the day you decided all of yours
needed to be white plastic. And now that's kind of
a thing that your closet is organized when all the
hangars match, but you shout at home at it, I know,
But you were on that train, like when you were
in middle school. Well, I don't see myself as a perfectionist.

(25:32):
You have your cow in your living room, and you
have the curtains, and you get out a tape measure
and you measure each side of the couch to each
side of the curtain to make sure there are seven
inches on each side, right, Like, I don't used to
be a certain way. And I know you've recently gotten
on the wagon where you make your bed every day,
but like, I've been in that club for a really
long time and I'm not but it's amazing. And I've

(25:56):
known that making my bed was the key to a
good day, and if I had bad day, most likely
my bed was not made, you know. And so there's
things that I guess I've been more perfectionistic towards, and
there's things you've been more perfectionistic towards. You're more a
perfectionist than I am. And well, a lot of what
you're describing would put me in a category with someone
who is at risk to disordered eating. And just what's up.
I don't know. That's amazing. I saw it in you,

(26:19):
and I don't know. I can't really I'd have to
go back and like journal through that for several days
to find in my heart what's going on with Well,
I'm thankful you didn't because another post and then we'll
wrap this thing up that Jennifer also put up. I
think maybe even the day before that one said I
feel sad for my former self who was trapped in

(26:39):
an eating disorder. I missed out on so much delicious food,
connection and moments of joy. Yeah, and it's so true.
I think back on I missed out on a lot
of that, and I can't get it back. I mean,
now our dad has a stroke in his hands don't
work as well, so he can't cook, and then now
he's a feeding tube and he can't eat, and he's
an assisted living place. I have no more opper ttunities

(27:00):
really for dad to cook for us. And I blew
a lot of those opportunities by showing up with my
own food because I didn't want to eat his food
because I had too much butter or whatever. And then
there was even times I did that to mom, or
times where similar to you, where I projected my eating
disorder on to you without even really knowing it. I
know I've done that to been my husband. I know

(27:21):
that I was doing it to my kids a little
bit when they first got here, because I wasn't in
recovery mode then. And I've I've done a one eighty
with how I am with them and food from how
I thought I was going to be, because my plan
was to just they were going to be like me,
right and watch every ingredient and none of this and
none of that. And ice cream? Are you kidding? My
kids don't get candy? What? And now, oh my gosh,

(27:43):
we have like eight cartons of ice cream in the
freezer this week. And there's a time in my life
where I would not have been able to have ice
cream in my house, or I would not have been
able to have butter fingers in my pantry because I
would either eat them all or I simply didn't trust
myself to eat them all, so I would have to
throw them away. I would have to get rid of um. Yeah,
I could not have stuff like that. And now I

(28:03):
gotta say, it's amazing because I can have that stuff,
which honestly brings me joy because when family comes to visit,
we can have ice cream night and it's not the
end of the world. And I don't feel like I
have to eat the entire thing of ice cream because
I'm never going to have ice cream again, because that's
that was my mentality. If I had it tomorrow, I'm
gonna wake up and have a green juice and then
I just won't eat. Right now, we have the connection

(28:26):
of trying all kinds of ice creams, Like we had
four different ones open the other night with spoons in
and out. Don't recommend that with coronavirus. But we're family
and we know that we're right now. But you know,
just be careful. People that you're quarantined with you can
do that with. But that's fun stuff and that it
makes me happy to like look in my pantry and

(28:47):
see the variety of things. What did you freak out
on the other day that I was eating a pop tart?
Oh my gosh, Okay, Well, first of all, I woke
up and Amy had made like an amazing breakfast. And
what was in the pan a canno black beans in
a canner road that's all in the pan, and you
kind of cook that a little bit and get up
going hot, and then you just kind of crack eggs
on top of it and it makes sort of this,
not Webb strin shows, but sort of like that type

(29:09):
of like this Mexican egg dish and it was so
good and so we all had some of that, and
then I forgot I was asking you, like, oh, Amy,
did you eat, because we kind of just came in
and kind of ate. We didn't sit around the table
and eat. And I did crush tortilla chips on the
side with avocado. It was it was so good and
so easy, like me goes. And then she just casually

(29:30):
said something like, oh yeah, I had some eggs and
I had a pop tart, and I was like, what
like those words? I just not did not imagine the
word pop tart coming out of your mouth that you
ate one. And I think it was like just a
portion of a pop tart, but steel steel still well,
because I ate to what I was where I was satisfied.
If I wanted to eat the whole pop tart, sweep

(29:51):
by to this great tart, if I want half the
pop tart, great. It used to be all or not,
not like I better eat this whole pop tart. So
I'm not gonna have pop tarts for two years after this,
you know, So I could eat have the pop chart,
put the rest in a zip blog bag and eat
the rest tomorrow if I wanted it. And that's a
huge step for me. So back to the connection and
the joy, that's what that is. I mean, we were

(30:13):
I made breakfast as a family and we got to
have it. And I know that I missed out on
some of Mom's things. I think I was going to
say that, I know that I put it on Mom
and that's something I regret because she is no longer
with us, and I'm able to go to bed and
say I'm sorry. I'm able to say to you, hey, Christie,
I'm sorry that I put you through that, which I
did the other day in the car because maybe some

(30:35):
people listening, maybe there's people apologized out of nowhere. Maybe
there's people that you need to reach out to and
apologize for, and maybe I still have more people if
you're listening, and I owe you an apology. I I
don't know, but I know where I am now has
allowed me to see the hurt and maybe not that

(30:55):
I heard or caused you pain, but I still because
we just adapted to it. But it annoying and then
I caused you to second guess things about yourself or
how you were eating or should you it just was unnecessary. Yeah,
I would kind of be like, I can't believe you're
putting that into your body type judgment. Judgment. Yeah, so
that's why so many words, but it definitely was was there,

(31:17):
And that's what I would do to Mom. I would
judge her, I know, but you know she would. She
would be so proud of where you are, and she's
not one to ever hold grudges over that stuff, so
she would just be proud you're growing through it and
you don't need to carry that, And then I'm no loss.
This morning, I saw a cardinal fly out your window
and outside landed in a tree, and cardinals represent joy

(31:38):
and Mom, and I just knew she's just watching over her. Ow.
I know, Christy walked to buy me. I was in
the kitchen. She goes, don't worry. Mom just flew by.
You're good, and I was like, what you? And then
I saw another one. You've got like a little all around. Yeah.
Thank you Jennifer Rowlin for the amazing posts and always

(31:59):
happy to share her stuff on here for sure. Okay,
so let's talk about the lie that entered your head.
Where did you do this at some retreat. Oh is
that this retreat called camp Well, it takes place in

(32:21):
Colorado and it's just a group of ladies and we
had a speaker and I totally forget who it was,
but it really you know, you kind of go through
different exercises where you're just kind of connecting with different
things that might have been going on your mind or
might be holding you back. And so one of them
was we had to sort of just journal about what's
like a constant lie that goes through your head. So
it was just like one, two, three go, and you're

(32:42):
just like journaling kind of going, Okay, what is the
lie that goes through my head? What is the lie
that goes through my head? What am I constantly telling myself?
And mine kind of bordered between these two things like
I'm not enough and I'm not worthy. It was like
those two things, and I couldn't like pinpoint you know
why or how that was a lie. But that's a
constant thing, like if I walk into a room of people,

(33:03):
no matter what in my mind, I constantly will think
I don't feel like I should be here, I don't
belong here, I'm not worthy of being here. I'm not
enough to be here like those little things. And so
then the next part of the exercise, you know, as
they were talking to us, just came up and said, Okay,
now that you've kind of identified what the lie might be,
start kind of trying to recognize when you may have
first heard that lie or first believed it or at

(33:26):
first enterged your mind. And somehow, some way, I immediately
had this picture of myself standing in front of the
mirror in our dining room and really long mirrors, and
that's where I would like check out my outfit. And

(33:47):
so I obviously had gotten dressed and come to look
at my outfit in the dining room mirrors, and it
was the your dad left and it was Thanksgiving. And
I don't know why this image was coming to my mind,
but I just pictured myself standing there and I had
like these velvet floral leggings on. I can picture the
outfit like an oversized black kind of hoodie shirt, and

(34:08):
my hair was pulled back, and I had that those
big like is a huge bow and it's made out
of like chiffon or whatever that material is. It would
make like this big poofy black bow. And I had
my hair clipped back low, and that like I can
just picture I did my makeup. I was probably fourteen,
and that's the image that I had in my mind,

(34:28):
and I was realizing that Dad was coming over for
Thanksgiving and in my I don't know why this emotional
to think of, but I'm like staring at myself in
the mirror and I'm remembering this, and I'm just thinking,
do all look good enough? You know? Do I? You know,
is he gonna be proud of me? Is he gonna
be proud of how I look? You know, I feel
pretty good in this outfit, But is Dad gonna notice,

(34:49):
you know type things? And am I going to feel
worthy when he comes over? Because I think he came
over for Thanksgiving that year or something. You know, he
had been moved out and we did things together occasionally
and he would come over, and then that slowly got
less and less and less apart. You know, he still
had like clothes in the closet at the time, and
it's almost like every time he'd come over, he'd get
more clothes and more things. And because stay he left,

(35:12):
he only left like a duffel back. He only took
the red and black Duffel bag. I thought he was
going on a business trip. Well, that's what he said.
He was going to go away for a little while.
He didn't like specifically say hey, I'm leaving y'all. He
just said, but I'm gonna go away for a little while.
And we kind of, over the next six months figured
it out ourself what was happening. But we were pretty slow.

(35:33):
We were very slow. Well, no one was really telling
us something Like I was really sad that night and
I was crying, and I remember my mom. Friends came
over before it. Yeah, Emily, and they were with mom. Yeah,
Mom knew more maybe what was going on. Friends knew,
but like I just thought, oh, Dad's leaving for a
little while, but I mean, he's probably going to come back,

(35:53):
but I'm gonna be sad. That did not hear for
a few weeks, That's what I remember. I did and understand.
I knew it was a business trip, but something felt
weird about it because he traveled for work all the time,
so much so that before he left, I ran back
to my room and got my little teddy Bearty Bear,
and I ran to the door and I gave it
to him. And I normally wouldn't have done that. I did,

(36:17):
I don't. At the coffee table drawing him a picture. Yes,
I visually remember this. What was the picture? I don't
remember all of us as a family. You were drawing,
and then you gave him the Teddy Bear. I remember
that part sevidly. You were sitting there drawing. I'm like,
sitting there crying. I don't think you understood. I did not,
but I also didn't understand either. And then I think

(36:39):
a year later, maybe he took me out to dinner.
This is not how I advised parents go about this.
He took me to dinner, and then we got home
and I were sitting in my room on my little
twin bed, and he said, do you know what an
affair is? I don't think we've talked about this. He
did not say this to me. Oh he said this

(36:59):
to me. Know he did not because I probably already knew, right.
I don't think that it needed to be explained. He
said that to you, Yes, and what did you say?
Did you know? I wouldn't think you would have because
you're like nine, And why he chose to it just
wasn't necessary. I don't need to write. But I think, well,
first of all, he had a girlfriend, and what did

(37:20):
he say? But we would hang out with her, But
I don't really remember. I just remember him asking me.
He took me to dinner, and then I remember him
sitting on my floor and I was on the bed,
and he just asked me if I knew what an
affair was. So I had gone to his office and
saw a picture of his girlfriend on the desk, and
I thought, and I think that's when he started to think,
I need to address this with her. And then I

(37:41):
had a softball tournament in slide L, Louisiana, and he
drove me there and some other friends, I guess, and
I had to go out to his truck to get
his wallet. And his wallet I got it out and
it fell to the ground and opened up, and there
was a picture of her in his I mean, this
is back when you used to carry pictures in your wallet.
It but she was in like a night gown. She

(38:02):
got pictures, And I thought, and I really heard, when
you're a kid and you come in and there's like
kind of seductive pictures your dad's girlfriend. But I didn't
know she was his girlfriend at the time. I knew
she was. I knew who she was, but I was like,
what this lit? So I had already kind of figured
it out, so I think when he asked me, I

(38:24):
said no, but I knew, you know, I don't know
you and I didn't really talk about it. But when
I found out, Dad came and took me to a
concert and then he said, do you know what? He went?
What a concert was it? I don't remember. I don't
remember what it was. I feel like it was George
Straight and I went and she went, and then they
were holding hands and I was like, what is happening

(38:48):
because she was like a family friend, you know. And
then I was like, what in the world is happening
you know, right now? And then I think I had
later I never talked to you about it, because I mean,
you were a little I was a teenager. You was thirteen, right,
My son, Stevenson is the age that I and so yeah,
it would just be hard. I don't know. I just
didn't feel like maybe I thought it was too heavy

(39:10):
for you to even carry. And I remember asking mom, like,
is something going on with that and such and such,
and she was like, well, we're going to find out
sooner or later, and yes, you know, and it was like,
oh my gosh. Then it was like the world crumbled
a whole other time. At the time he left, I
had no idea. It wasn't even in my mind that
there would be someone else. And then now Dad, and

(39:32):
he's been married four times, and I would venture to
say unfaithful every marriage. Maybe, Oh, I mean it just
that anybody's businestionship. But I'm just saying we I almost have.
As weird as this might sound for some people, I
have compassion for him because somebody doesn't repeat that behavior

(39:57):
unless they're struggling with something themse selves. And I don't.
I don't think my dad's a bad person at all.
He's actually really amazing and has a really big heart.
Horrible with relationships, and then that you could trace back
to his childhood and things he had to go through
and how he didn't have what's his life exactly his

(40:20):
is that he's not enough either, and you know, he's
constantly looking for what's going to make him and he was,
I think, and he admitted that, and even even up
to you know, a few years ago, I think he
came to us and said, or at least to me,
we had a conversation on my front porch where he said,
you know, he's never like fully apologized, but he did
say something like, I'm just not after the things I
used to be after. Family is the most important thing

(40:42):
to me. And I'm so glad y'all are in my life,
and I'm so you know, and it just became that
he just wanted to be with us and grow with
us and not chase business success or money or or
relationships and just be So. He's made a lot of
mistakes in his life, but I feel like he's come
around to most of them. So did you ever did
you want to talk about your lie? Or do you

(41:02):
have a lie that you've realized that entered your Well,
I haven't similar to you. I know that I enter
rooms and think immediately nobody likes me, so and that's
a lie, But I don't know that that feeds into
the whole eating disorder side of things. That's just a
lie that I know I can think of. But I
know there's lies that I told myself during my disordered

(41:24):
eating stuff, and it was that I sometimes didn't deserve
to eat, which is a lie. We always deserve nourishment
almost sometimes sadly, that I was better than somebody else.
If I ate this way, I'm a better person. I'm
taking care of myself like this, so that makes me better,
which is a lie. You're not better than somebody else

(41:44):
because you eat a certain way. I think that a
lie was that I was a failure if I didn't
do a marathon, which I shouldn't have done that marathon,
by the way, I hurt my knee halfway through training
and then I was miserable for a while. A boyfriend
at the time and he literally broke up with me
because I'm so miserable after the marathon. I was a nightmare.

(42:08):
So I would set these goals and I had to
do them or I was a failure. And if I
didn't go to the gym every day, if I didn't
eat this certain way, if I didn't get rid of
the food in a way. Another lie I think, if
it falls into the disordered eating category, is that you're
better when you're been or people like me more when

(42:30):
I'm skinny, you'll be more likable and attractive. Those are
very realized that I think if you're struggling with body
image issues, that stuff that enters your head and what
you have to do and what I love about Lisa,
and that's the next thing I want to get into
is a blog she put up about nine ways to
Squash food guilt, which is sort of relates to this

(42:50):
podcast and what we're talking about, but for right now,
one of her sayings that relates to the lies in
her head is forked the noise. She's like, stick a
fork in it. It's noise. And while it started with
food thoughts, she applies it in every aspect of her
life now. So if you were to walk into a
room and not feel worthy, she would say, fork the noise.

(43:10):
That's a lie. If I were to walk into a
room and say, nobody likes me, fork the noise. If
I were to pick up a hamburger and think I
don't deserve to eat this. I didn't work out today,
fork the noise. That's me sticking a fork. That's that's
the sound of a fork going into my Now. I
think it could be an interesting exercise for anyone who's

(43:32):
listening to just really be aware of their thoughts, to
be aware of the lies that enter, because because I
find myself doing that too now that I'm aware of
the lie when it when it creeps in, because it
will creep in naturally, it's like this ingrained lie that's
coming in to yourself. Then when you're more aware of
it than you can push back, put the fork in it.

(43:58):
So Lisa put this up on her blog, the Well
Necessities dot com, and I'll just run through these nine
ways to squash food guilt right away. First of all,
you gotta identify and tackle fear foods. So if you've
got a food that's listed as bad, you're scared of it,
you need to identify it and then don't eat it. Well, yeah,

(44:20):
eat it and incorporate it into your lifestyle instead of
it being this bad food. So you've got the pizza,
I need to eat the whole pizza now, Like, go
ahead and make a complete meal and throw a slice
of pizza on your plate with a bunch of other food,
and don't give it the attention. Be like, this is pizza,
it's normal. So you can tackle that fear and then
eventually have that food around without it giving you complete

(44:41):
anxiety or freaking out. Don't put the experience on a pedestal,
which is similar to that when you give pizza this
platform of being this a ha food, then it has
too much power over you, you've lifted it up, and
when you normalize it, then you can have the slice
of pizza and it'll hit the spot and then you
can move on with your day. So I mean that's

(45:02):
a little tip three. Take off your last chance pants.
So this is kind of the scarcity mindset at work,
Lisa says, where we think that eating certain foods are
bad and so we permit them, but only during a
small window of time. So like last chance, your last
chance pants, like literally it's figuratively, but like I better

(45:23):
eat this now because I'm not gonna eat it tomorrow
flag the and then story. She said that almost every
client starts their chief complaint with I eat healthy all day,
and then they feel guilt, shame, and failure for blowing
it after all their hard work. But the blowing it
isn't real. They just think that eating healthily is hard
work and that certain foods are not healthy or good

(45:45):
for you. And by practicing the first three tips that
will help break down this idea. But it's important to
recognize that no one meal can have long term effects
on you physically, but we all know that it mentally
can affect you big time. So it's a mental thing.
So think about your and then story and examine it
with the critical lens, recognizing that nothing terrible happened. Another

(46:09):
shift you can expect is healthy eating no longer feels
like a chore or like work, because nourishing your body
with what it asks for is simple and automatic. It's
I'm still working on getting there with the simple automatic stuff.
Five recognized we don't just eat for physical hunger. Now.
The latest in food guilt, she said, is self loathing
for eating when I wasn't even hungry. And then she

(46:32):
says facts we eat for reasons outside of our biological needs,
meaning we eat beyond needing calories for energy to live,
recognizing we have different types of hunger aka desires to eat,
and all of that are okay. And we should be
able to eat because something looks good, or something smells good,

(46:53):
because we're curious to taste it, because we love our
grandma's lasagna, and sometimes because we need a break from
real life and food simply provides joy and space. Number
six trust that only you know what you need. She said.
It's really easy to tumble into eating what everyone else
is eating, especially if that person really makes you feel

(47:13):
like you should be But if you ever paused and
asked yourself, do I want this? The simple practice might
be more eye opening than you think, And no matter
what you eat, you have actively consulted with yourself, minimizing
the why did I do this? You simply know. Number
seven turn guilt into compassion. This is a skillful practice

(47:33):
that will take time, but if you find yourself feeling
guilty after eating, the best thing to do is notice
and label the feeling. It's in this moment that the
last thing you need is punishment or more rules. Your
body and mind are already feeling unsafe and scared, so
it needs to know that it's loved and that you
have its back. Consider talking this out with someone that

(47:54):
you trust. Are taking time to show love and care
for yourself in whatever way feels good to you. The
simple lists and free offering is always a self hug.
Sounds cheesy, but it works, says Lisa. No, but maybe
I need to. I think compassion is huge, not only
compassion for others, but compassion for yourself when you're on

(48:15):
this journey of healing, because you're going to need it.
Number eight, Recognize that stress overeating is not healthy. Your
body cannot distinguish the panic from guilt and shame and
real stress. As a result, your body chemistry changes. It's
not easy to just not stress, but having some self

(48:36):
soothing activities listed in your phone may be helpful to
return to when you feel the most panicked. Maybe this
is a word search, reading a fiction book, just breathing
a nature walk, are taking time to unplug from social media.
And then, lastly, number nine, let food bring you joy
and your senses take over. She said. The funny thing
about this journey for me is that while I used

(48:57):
to consider myself a foodie, someone who every meal to
taste drewel worthy, delicious, a big part of that stem
for my disordered eating and fixation on food. Don't get
me wrong, I love to cook and I love a
killer meal, but some days, most days, lunch is just lunch,
and my focus is on other things. However, bringing pleasure
and enjoyment back to food if that's been missing, is

(49:20):
critical to avoid food guilt. That starts with being mindful,
taking a moment to stop the chatter in your mind
and let your senses take over while you notice the
changes in texture, taste, and even enjoyment. And Lisa is
someone She was pretty vocal on our Outweigh series that
she would go to bed thinking about breakfast, wake up,
eat breakfast, and while she was eating breakfast, you'd be

(49:42):
thinking about what she was going to make for lunch.
During lunch, she was planning dinner. Like her whole life
revolved around food and what she was going to eat
and win and how blah blah blah and working out
in all the things that she was never just enjoying
it and sometimes just seeing it. It wasn't ever just lunch.
It was always such a thing. So again, check out
the well Necessities dot com and then on Instagram she's

(50:05):
at the well Necessities sister. I love you, thanks for
and I'm so glad you joined for this episode. Keeping
it real here continuing some of the Outweigh talk, which
Lisa and I are going to do a season two Aboutweigh.
We probably won't release until later this year though, probably
in November, which I think that will give us enough
time to get some stuff pulled together and have in

(50:27):
time for holidays, because I know that's a time where
people tend to have a lot of anxiety and stress,
and I want y'all to remember that, you know, we
had a doctor on the Outweigh series talking about the
anxiety and the chemicals that are produced from the stress
and anxiety that you may have over food are or
can be worse for you than if you were to
just have eaten the oreo or whatever it is you're

(50:49):
stressing about. So think about that. There are chemicals released
when we are stressed and anxious about things, So eat
the dang oreo and fork the noise.