Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, it was during study haul and it was full
of students. We have yet another school shooting that happened
oh Monday morning and the Abundant Life Christian School in Madison,
Wisconsin this time. And so a female shooter was the
(00:21):
was the person who uh who perpetrated this? I mean
it is uh gosh, it is so many questions when
it comes to these kinds of things, and will we
ever really get the answers we don't know? Let's bring
in Don Mahallick, who is ABC News Law enforcement contributor
and retired senior Secret Service agent. Don welcome again to
(00:42):
the Mark Blazer Show.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Thanks for having Mark.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yes, sir, yes, sir, So you head up security for
a Philadelphia school district and I did not know that
untill obviously just now when I was looking at this information.
But uh, this, this rapid response, once again is partly
why lives were saved here.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Correct. Well, yeah, the police response was pretty quick and
they got into the school and they found the intruder,
and the intruder ended the situation by a self inflicted
gunshot wound, which is typically one of the two ways
these situations end. Either a police neutralize a threat or
typically they do have a self inflicted gunshot wound. It's
(01:25):
rare that they take the shooter into custody in these
tragic situations.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, So, in your expert opinion, when you look at
the way that this kind of happened, could it have
been a different type of response or do you see
this as about as good as it could get given
the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, from a police perspective, they did exactly as a
response should be these days, the active shooter response particles
The question here is the school perspective, because in all
these situations there are behavioral traits or behavioral incidents that
occur that people don't pick up on, which I'm sure
in the investigation you're going to come out in the
(02:04):
aftermath that this student, this individual was saying things, doing things,
acting in certain ways the telegraph their pathway to violence.
Just either nobody's picked up on it, people ignored it,
and nobody tried to address it.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So given that explanation, do you feel the parents then
possibly are going to be on the hook for this.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I don't think of being a hook or not marked
because in reality, in all these school shootings, you've got
you know, typically the student's friends are one of the
first people that actually see that the student's not acting right.
The parents usually pick up on it afterwards, but these
days it's social media too. The students are typically the
ones that see things online that would generate concern, which
(02:47):
is where a lot of reporting comes from these days.
Online reporting. People seeing somebody say something online it doesn't
look right, it's causing concern, they report it, and that's
what starts a lot of the behavioral threat assessment prout
around the country that's used to mitigate these kind of situations.
So it's going to be a holistic look. What were
the parents seeing, what was the school seeing, what were
(03:09):
the friend seeing? What was she saying to people to
put this picture together of why she did this?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Were you able to see any of what they were
speculating as a manifesto in this situation. I know there
are bits and pieces of it put out on the internet.
We were talking about it on the air yesterday, and
I don't even know if it's valid at this point,
But have you seen any of that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I haven't seen any of the manifesto other than what's
been reported. I will tell you though, that in all
these situations, these shooters tell people what they're going to do,
and like we saw in this situation or the assassin
in New York, they actually or even a butler attempted assassination,
they roll right down and tell people what they're going
(03:52):
to do, and they'll leave behind an explanation of some type,
and that will give a clue as to what was
going on as in the individual's life that put them
on this pathway.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
To violence, the grievances that they had, which is always the.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Case, there's a grievance, they have an anger, anger towards
this grievance, and it puts them on this pathway to violence.
People see it, people see what's going on. Nobody actually interdicts.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I saw a reference of like bullying. Did you happen
to see that?
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Try to sell the bullying reference. I also, so we're
reported to be a picture of this young woman, and
so of my speculation I think would be proven correct
through that picture. So if that manifesto is verified, that's
that's a big question right now. You it's difficult to
get that evil, that angry that fast without many people
witnessing the change in you.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Right, good point, well, well, Mark, bullying is pervasive because
of social media. We have a fire and forget the
cyber assault world where people fire off stuff online on
then you guys probably victimized by it too. They fire
off stuff online. There's no repercussion. They feel there's no repercussion.
(05:00):
For a kid, there is a repercussion because they don't
know how to handle it. And the surgeon in general
has put out two warning signs about social media and
children that they're developmentally not capable of handling what goes
on in social media, what's set on social media, and
how to handle when something is said about them, which
drives a lot of these issues that we're seeing with
(05:22):
kid mental health issues, school discipline issues. It drives a
lot of it through schools across the country. Bullying cyber
bullying is probably the top concern among all schools bar none.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, and the thing with that, Don is it's not
going to get any better. It's not like the only
way to stamp that out is to eliminate social media
for under a certain age, and you're right, they don't
have the ability to process that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Go ahead, Well, it's interesting you said that, Mark, because
by the rules, if you're under thirteen, you're supposed to
not be allowed to have social media. There's been a
push in Congress to raise at the sixteen.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Having said all of that, the ultimate arbiter.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Of a child having social media is the home is
the parents. They're the ones that can make the decision
to allow or not allow a child of social media.
As I say to parents my interactions with them, you
own the phone, you can control the phone. You own
the computer, you can control the computer. You can say
(06:24):
what they can and can't have. But that's a parent
being a parent and being active and involved in their
kids lives versus sitting back and babysitting by social media
and buy TV.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, with the fact that you're heading security for Philadelphia
School District and you're talking to parents, how do they
receive that? Don are they? I'm imagining on the surface
they're very receptive and say, yeah, yeah, you're right, But
I feel like by and large, when it comes down
to it, they back down or they just they kind
of shrug their shoulders or throw their hands up and
(06:55):
go I'm not sure exactly how to do this. It
does take some effort on the parent part.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It does take effort, and and it cuts across all
different realms from parents that will jump on top of
it to parents who don't. I've also had a lot
of parents that just don't understand.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Phones, how to work phones.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
How the cyberspace works, how to work social media and
it so it takes an effort. Parents have to make
the effort to learn to find resources. I've referred people
to phone stores, Horizon stores. I've shown people on my
own phone how to set up you know, screen time
and other ways to mitigate and minimize what your child
is doing on the phone. But it takes an effort.
(07:38):
It's it's like another job for most parents. You have
to be on top of it. You have to see
what's going on, you have to understand the work around,
and if you don't know what you're doing, you have
to be willing to ask for help.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Boy, is it worth the investment too? I mean, think
about it. This is a shining example, and I don't
know that it's at the nucleus of this problem, but
it is definitely worth the investment by parents to try
to get this thing fur it out sooner rather than later,
especially if you have little ones or young young adults
or young teens or what have you. But do you
think thirteen years old as even And I know you
(08:09):
mentioned Congress was talking about elevating that to sixteen years old,
but I feel like thirteen's not even old enough.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I would agree with you.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I think you know, and the Surgeon General has cited.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
This, that brains and it's this administration.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Surgeon General that cited this twice, that children's brains and
that development to be ready to handle social media. And
if you look at the brain development, what doctors will
say is the brain isn't fully developed to your twenties.
So in reality, I think sixteen might be too young.
So then it becomes a matter of.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Parent parenting and understanding whether their child is mature enough
to handle certain things or if they're not, and if
they're not be willing to go say no, or if
you give it to them and you realize it's a mistake,
take it away and sorry. Dealer to screaming or ranting
and the raving for the short term, but in a
long term chance that most it's great to being on
(09:02):
social media because I don't have to worry about anything,
because if you're not on social media, you don't.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Have to wear up being cyberbullie.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
That's a great point. Don mahallak ABC News law enforcement contributor,
retired senior Secret Service agent out of Philadelphia, now heading
security for Philadelphia School District. Don, great to talk to you.
Thanks for your assessment on this. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Thanks for having me on Mark.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
You got it, brother, Thanks man. Yeah, all of those
things are I feel like, make a fantastic point. I've
even heard I don't know if you've heard this. Now,
you and I were fortunate, I guess in that with
regard to operating some of the electronics and so on,
it's not just been something that boo, it popped into
my I've had to work at it because I I
(09:45):
don't even like social media, I hate it, but to
work at it and try to understand it and at
least for instance iPhone and and you know, all of
the Apple stuff. It does it. It is relatively parent
friendly when you're going to kind of clamp down or
(10:07):
or you know, kind of corral or you know, handle
all of the different avenues that kids can have, and
it does really really help. It seems to be pretty bulletproof.
Right now. I use it with screen time with Stone.
I have it set to where he is unable to do.
He's unable to move around on any of his devices
(10:30):
once it becomes a certain time, and I can move
that very easily. As a matter of fact, I go
in and look at it every so often just to
make sure A it's not been changed somehow and I
didn't know about it, and B I know how to
navigate to it. But it does take It does take
some learning, and it does take some effort to try
to get that figured out.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Apple is not only friendly in some cases, I think
it's a little invasive. The new stuff. I just for
the Queen's birthday, I got her iPhone fifteen. You know,
many times you don't want to deal with people, not
in her case, because I always want to deal with her.
But she can actually see how much battery power I
have on my phone from her phone. Yeah, which, yeah,
(11:13):
if I was a kid, that'd be great. I'm not
so crazed about their product when it comes to another
adult knowing how much battery power I have on the phone,
getting parents to say, yeah, you're not old enough getting
to you know, in twenty twenty four, parents don't admit
little Johnny's an idiot. They just won't do it. Every
kid's a genius. Every kid's beautiful, every kid's could be
president of the United States. That is, that's going to
(11:34):
be a difficult task to get people to say, Yeah,
my kid's just not mentally ready for social media. And
you know, lastly, the Internet. It's the cartoons of the
new millennium. That is the babysitter. Let the kids get online,
play their video games and all that stuff. And too
many parents want to take the easy way out. They
(11:55):
don't want to dedicate that time, give that attention. It's
easier to let the kids sit in front of a screen,
and those screens are screwing up minds, but pretty much
every day. So there would have to be a complete
revamp of everything we know as parenthood in this country
to even start to make something work when it comes.
We've gone too far in one direction to go back
(12:15):
the other.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I kicked myself in my own ass so many times
because I waited so long to have kids, and it
wasn't even planned when I did have them. I mean
somewhat it was planned, but I waited. Now, all how
I wished Josephine were already in her mid or late twenties,
and all how I wish Stone was already in his twenties,
(12:37):
not eleven, because he's right in the middle of this battle.
It is so scary, dude, I'm telling you, I bring
myself almost to tears sometimes thinking about it. And I'm
not kidding, and I just say to myself, please, God
help me give him the direction that will keep him from,
you know, turning into what we witnessed with this girl
(13:00):
on Monday. You know that kind of stuff. It's so scary.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I get you, I'm dealing with the same thing. You
try to set an example and give give the kids
something to look up to and follow and want to, uh,
to kind of emulate. But the world out there is
very big and very influential, and sometimes no matter how
hard you try, they they take a left turn and
go a different direction. And it's it's sad. If you're fortunate,
(13:26):
you know, sometime in their mid twenties they come back
to their right mind and say, yeah, Dad was right,
Grandpa was right, whatever. But there are that's a period
of years where they're going to be stupid, and uh,
that's just that's part of growing up.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I know they were talking about a female I believe
in the song, but it almost applies in this situation,
hold on loosely, but don't let go, you know, with
regard to your kids, because you you clamp down too
tight and they start wriggling around like yeah, let go
of me, let go. So there's this. You got to
strike a balance in there somehow.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
And if you try laying down the law when they're thirteen,
when you haven't done it the rest of their life,
you're done. You're done. It has to be from the
very beginning of life, when they're molding what is and
what is not two years old and just coming out
of the crib. That's when you have to hold on
to them and set them on the right course. Agreed.
Well, it was during study haul and it was full
of students. We have yet another school shooting that happened
oh Monday morning and the Abundant Life Christian School in Madison,
Wisconsin this time. And so a female shooter was the
(00:21):
was the person who uh who perpetrated this? I mean
it is uh gosh, it is so many questions when
it comes to these kinds of things, and will we
ever really get the answers we don't know? Let's bring
in Don Mahallick, who is ABC News Law enforcement contributor
and retired senior Secret Service agent. Don welcome again to
(00:42):
the Mark Blazer Show.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Thanks for having Mark.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yes, sir, yes, sir, So you head up security for
a Philadelphia school district and I did not know that
untill obviously just now when I was looking at this information.
But uh, this, this rapid response, once again is partly
why lives were saved here.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Correct. Well, yeah, the police response was pretty quick and
they got into the school and they found the intruder,
and the intruder ended the situation by a self inflicted
gunshot wound, which is typically one of the two ways
these situations end. Either a police neutralize a threat or
typically they do have a self inflicted gunshot wound. It's
(01:25):
rare that they take the shooter into custody in these
tragic situations.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, So, in your expert opinion, when you look at
the way that this kind of happened, could it have
been a different type of response or do you see
this as about as good as it could get given
the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, from a police perspective, they did exactly as a
response should be these days, the active shooter response particles
The question here is the school perspective, because in all
these situations there are behavioral traits or behavioral incidents that
occur that people don't pick up on, which I'm sure
in the investigation you're going to come out in the
(02:04):
aftermath that this student, this individual was saying things, doing things,
acting in certain ways the telegraph their pathway to violence.
Just either nobody's picked up on it, people ignored it,
and nobody tried to address it.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So given that explanation, do you feel the parents then
possibly are going to be on the hook for this.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I don't think of being a hook or not marked
because in reality, in all these school shootings, you've got
you know, typically the student's friends are one of the
first people that actually see that the student's not acting right.
The parents usually pick up on it afterwards, but these
days it's social media too. The students are typically the
ones that see things online that would generate concern, which
(02:47):
is where a lot of reporting comes from these days.
Online reporting. People seeing somebody say something online it doesn't
look right, it's causing concern, they report it, and that's
what starts a lot of the behavioral threat assessment prout
around the country that's used to mitigate these kind of situations.
So it's going to be a holistic look. What were
the parents seeing, what was the school seeing, what were
(03:09):
the friend seeing? What was she saying to people to
put this picture together of why she did this?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Were you able to see any of what they were
speculating as a manifesto in this situation. I know there
are bits and pieces of it put out on the internet.
We were talking about it on the air yesterday, and
I don't even know if it's valid at this point,
But have you seen any of that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I haven't seen any of the manifesto other than what's
been reported. I will tell you though, that in all
these situations, these shooters tell people what they're going to do,
and like we saw in this situation or the assassin
in New York, they actually or even a butler attempted assassination,
they roll right down and tell people what they're going
(03:52):
to do, and they'll leave behind an explanation of some type,
and that will give a clue as to what was
going on as in the individual's life that put them
on this pathway.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
To violence, the grievances that they had, which is always the.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Case, there's a grievance, they have an anger, anger towards
this grievance, and it puts them on this pathway to violence.
People see it, people see what's going on. Nobody actually interdicts.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I saw a reference of like bullying. Did you happen
to see that?
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Try to sell the bullying reference. I also, so we're
reported to be a picture of this young woman, and
so of my speculation I think would be proven correct
through that picture. So if that manifesto is verified, that's
that's a big question right now. You it's difficult to
get that evil, that angry that fast without many people
witnessing the change in you.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Right, good point, well, well, Mark, bullying is pervasive because
of social media. We have a fire and forget the
cyber assault world where people fire off stuff online on
then you guys probably victimized by it too. They fire
off stuff online. There's no repercussion. They feel there's no repercussion.
(05:00):
For a kid, there is a repercussion because they don't
know how to handle it. And the surgeon in general
has put out two warning signs about social media and
children that they're developmentally not capable of handling what goes
on in social media, what's set on social media, and
how to handle when something is said about them, which
drives a lot of these issues that we're seeing with
(05:22):
kid mental health issues, school discipline issues. It drives a
lot of it through schools across the country. Bullying cyber
bullying is probably the top concern among all schools bar none.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, and the thing with that, Don is it's not
going to get any better. It's not like the only
way to stamp that out is to eliminate social media
for under a certain age, and you're right, they don't
have the ability to process that.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Go ahead, Well, it's interesting you said that, Mark, because
by the rules, if you're under thirteen, you're supposed to
not be allowed to have social media. There's been a
push in Congress to raise at the sixteen.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Having said all of that, the ultimate arbiter.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Of a child having social media is the home is
the parents. They're the ones that can make the decision
to allow or not allow a child of social media.
As I say to parents my interactions with them, you
own the phone, you can control the phone. You own
the computer, you can control the computer. You can say
(06:24):
what they can and can't have. But that's a parent
being a parent and being active and involved in their
kids lives versus sitting back and babysitting by social media
and buy TV.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, with the fact that you're heading security for Philadelphia
School District and you're talking to parents, how do they
receive that? Don are they? I'm imagining on the surface
they're very receptive and say, yeah, yeah, you're right, But
I feel like by and large, when it comes down
to it, they back down or they just they kind
of shrug their shoulders or throw their hands up and
(06:55):
go I'm not sure exactly how to do this. It
does take some effort on the parent part.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It does take effort, and and it cuts across all
different realms from parents that will jump on top of
it to parents who don't. I've also had a lot
of parents that just don't understand.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Phones, how to work phones.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
How the cyberspace works, how to work social media and
it so it takes an effort. Parents have to make
the effort to learn to find resources. I've referred people
to phone stores, Horizon stores. I've shown people on my
own phone how to set up you know, screen time
and other ways to mitigate and minimize what your child
is doing on the phone. But it takes an effort.
(07:38):
It's it's like another job for most parents. You have
to be on top of it. You have to see
what's going on, you have to understand the work around,
and if you don't know what you're doing, you have
to be willing to ask for help.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Boy, is it worth the investment too? I mean, think
about it. This is a shining example, and I don't
know that it's at the nucleus of this problem, but
it is definitely worth the investment by parents to try
to get this thing fur it out sooner rather than later,
especially if you have little ones or young young adults
or young teens or what have you. But do you
think thirteen years old as even And I know you
(08:09):
mentioned Congress was talking about elevating that to sixteen years old,
but I feel like thirteen's not even old enough.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I would agree with you.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I think you know, and the Surgeon General has cited.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
This, that brains and it's this administration.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Surgeon General that cited this twice, that children's brains and
that development to be ready to handle social media. And
if you look at the brain development, what doctors will
say is the brain isn't fully developed to your twenties.
So in reality, I think sixteen might be too young.
So then it becomes a matter of.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Parent parenting and understanding whether their child is mature enough
to handle certain things or if they're not, and if
they're not be willing to go say no, or if
you give it to them and you realize it's a mistake,
take it away and sorry. Dealer to screaming or ranting
and the raving for the short term, but in a
long term chance that most it's great to being on
(09:02):
social media because I don't have to worry about anything,
because if you're not on social media, you don't.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Have to wear up being cyberbullie.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
That's a great point. Don mahallak ABC News law enforcement contributor,
retired senior Secret Service agent out of Philadelphia, now heading
security for Philadelphia School District. Don, great to talk to you.
Thanks for your assessment on this. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Thanks for having me on Mark.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
You got it, brother, Thanks man. Yeah, all of those
things are I feel like, make a fantastic point. I've
even heard I don't know if you've heard this. Now,
you and I were fortunate, I guess in that with
regard to operating some of the electronics and so on,
it's not just been something that boo, it popped into
my I've had to work at it because I I
(09:45):
don't even like social media, I hate it, but to
work at it and try to understand it and at
least for instance iPhone and and you know, all of
the Apple stuff. It does it. It is relatively parent
friendly when you're going to kind of clamp down or
(10:07):
or you know, kind of corral or you know, handle
all of the different avenues that kids can have, and
it does really really help. It seems to be pretty bulletproof.
Right now. I use it with screen time with Stone.
I have it set to where he is unable to do.
He's unable to move around on any of his devices
(10:30):
once it becomes a certain time, and I can move
that very easily. As a matter of fact, I go
in and look at it every so often just to
make sure A it's not been changed somehow and I
didn't know about it, and B I know how to
navigate to it. But it does take It does take
some learning, and it does take some effort to try
to get that figured out.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Apple is not only friendly in some cases, I think
it's a little invasive. The new stuff. I just for
the Queen's birthday, I got her iPhone fifteen. You know,
many times you don't want to deal with people, not
in her case, because I always want to deal with her.
But she can actually see how much battery power I
have on my phone from her phone. Yeah, which, yeah,
(11:13):
if I was a kid, that'd be great. I'm not
so crazed about their product when it comes to another
adult knowing how much battery power I have on the phone,
getting parents to say, yeah, you're not old enough getting
to you know, in twenty twenty four, parents don't admit
little Johnny's an idiot. They just won't do it. Every
kid's a genius. Every kid's beautiful, every kid's could be
president of the United States. That is, that's going to
(11:34):
be a difficult task to get people to say, Yeah,
my kid's just not mentally ready for social media. And
you know, lastly, the Internet. It's the cartoons of the
new millennium. That is the babysitter. Let the kids get online,
play their video games and all that stuff. And too
many parents want to take the easy way out. They
(11:55):
don't want to dedicate that time, give that attention. It's
easier to let the kids sit in front of a screen,
and those screens are screwing up minds, but pretty much
every day. So there would have to be a complete
revamp of everything we know as parenthood in this country
to even start to make something work when it comes.
We've gone too far in one direction to go back
(12:15):
the other.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I kicked myself in my own ass so many times
because I waited so long to have kids, and it
wasn't even planned when I did have them. I mean
somewhat it was planned, but I waited. Now, all how
I wished Josephine were already in her mid or late twenties,
and all how I wish Stone was already in his twenties,
(12:37):
not eleven, because he's right in the middle of this battle.
It is so scary, dude, I'm telling you, I bring
myself almost to tears sometimes thinking about it. And I'm
not kidding, and I just say to myself, please, God
help me give him the direction that will keep him from,
you know, turning into what we witnessed with this girl
(13:00):
on Monday. You know that kind of stuff. It's so scary.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I get you, I'm dealing with the same thing. You
try to set an example and give give the kids
something to look up to and follow and want to, uh,
to kind of emulate. But the world out there is
very big and very influential, and sometimes no matter how
hard you try, they they take a left turn and
go a different direction. And it's it's sad. If you're fortunate,
(13:26):
you know, sometime in their mid twenties they come back
to their right mind and say, yeah, Dad was right,
Grandpa was right, whatever. But there are that's a period
of years where they're going to be stupid, and uh,
that's just that's part of growing up.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I know they were talking about a female I believe
in the song, but it almost applies in this situation,
hold on loosely, but don't let go, you know, with
regard to your kids, because you you clamp down too
tight and they start wriggling around like yeah, let go
of me, let go. So there's this. You got to
strike a balance in there somehow.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
And if you try laying down the law when they're thirteen,
when you haven't done it the rest of their life,
you're done. You're done. It has to be from the
very beginning of life, when they're molding what is and
what is not two years old and just coming out
of the crib. That's when you have to hold on
to them and set them on the right course. Agreed.
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