Ask HTM - Budgeting with Gift Cards, Inheriting Debt, & the Hidden Costs of Early Retirement #841

Let’s dive into the week with some fresh listener questions we have lined up for you! And don't just stand on the sidelines- if you have a question you’d like us to answer, toss your voice memo our way. It only takes about 90 seconds to record and you can find a step by step guide over at HowToMoney.com/ask . Regardless of how random or bizarre you might think it is, we want to hear it!

 

1 - Which of my parents’ debts will I be on the hook for once they (inevitably) pass away?

2 - As a longtime FIRE adherent, how can I switch from a saver to spender mindset?

3 - How should I factor gift cards into my budget in order to accurately reflect my spending?

4 - What are some of the hidden costs of early retirement that I should be accounting for?

 

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During this episode we thoroughly enjoyed a Community Connection by Creature Comforts and Dancing Gnome! And please help us to spread the word by letting friends and family know about How to Money! Hit the share button, subscribe if you’re not already a regular listener, and give us a quick review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Help us to change the conversation around personal finance and get more people doing smart things with their money!

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.
Today we're going to answer your listener questions.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
That's right, buddy, these Monday episodes. You said at one
time the pipeline to the people.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Where we actually do it's like a it's like a
little bat phone on our on our desk here in
the office, and we're able to hear directly from listener.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I think, by the way, you called it this money episode,
but it's a Monday, but all of episodes are by
no Monday. My bad.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Now we've got a listener who's wondering how she can
factor gift cards into her budget. Another listener is asking
about inherited debt what that's all about. And another listener
is wondering if there are any hidden costs of early retirement.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
We've got that. Lets more during today's ask how to Monday?
How about that?

Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm really crossing my wires. Yeah, there you know, how
to Monday episode. No, this is what we do on Monday's.
We take listener questions.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
But what's that, man?

Speaker 2 (01:12):
I feel like we haven't most of the time we have.
We have a few hours of hanging out together before
we sit down to record, but we both got to
work from home a little bit. Our bosses relented and
we've got we've got.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
A pretty good So I don'rt really do the hybrid thing,
but yeah, this morning we did. I had a kid
at home. You had some couples at home as well.
Summer dude, I will say, yeah, the summer childcare thing.
And I'm moving parts a beast, and you know, my
wife is now like she's a working woman, and so
like the way we have to kind of tackle childcare

(01:43):
together a lot more. Paying attention to the calendar. All right,
are y'all doing It's a puzzle, and I got a
I'm required my hands are on deck a lot more.
Is it the Google calendar where y'all are doing that?
Or is it just kind of like texts and conversations
here and there and you're piecing it together. The Google
calendar is a life saver. There's no one.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
If you have any other any questions, always you just
always got to look at that shendar. It's always on there.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
So we basically have like a Sunday night meeting every
single Sunday, and then we like I put everything on
the calendar according to them Okay, cool, I'm at home
covering this shift like I'm doing this, like I've got
dinner this night, literally down to I'm cooking dinner on
Tuesdays and Thursdays or whatever it is. Yeah, or oh,
a pool dinner night on Wednesday. Let's do that. So
everything's on my calendar, because if it wasn't, I would

(02:24):
forget the cracks. It doesn't she could have told me
some thirty seconds ago if I didn't put it on
my calendar. Sorry, it's it's leaked out of my ears.
I think it's just a male problem too that we
have a hard time forgetting. Or maybe it's a Joel
specific problem. But yeah, I like the details. So this
is Joe, this is why you and I are business procesa.
We got different strengths, yeah, different weaknesses. The things that

(02:45):
you gravitate towards. I could care less of them. We're
still trying to figure out where my strengths are'm at.
But one of these days will pinpoint them, so we'll
figure them out. We'll do a self assessment. We had
to go to like let's drop like ten thousand dollars
and go see Tony Robbins and figure out like what
it is that fires us up, is that gonna work
his investing. I don't like his investing advice. So does
he give investing advice? Talk about that? Actually, he just
had to remember he had a new book that came out,

(03:06):
and his whole pitch was to invest the way rich
people invest, which is with these like high foluton hedge
funds and stuff like that that are incredibly expensive. And
he I think he makes a stance to make a
lot of money if you invest in the company that
he works does business with. So yeah, well either way,
be careful of the different gurus that you follow up there. Yeah, exactly,

(03:26):
And I mean to be honest, it's a good time
just to mention again even what we say in here,
We're gonna answer a lot of questions today on this episode.
Do your own homework, do your own due diligence, Like
we are not soothsayers. We do our best. Like money
is a topic we are incredibly passionate about. We have
been studying for many, many years and it's the space
we've worked in for a long time. This podcast has

(03:47):
been around now for what six plus years? Matt yea,
So this yeah, so like take what we say listen
to it hopefully, but also take it with a grain
of salt and figure out on your own use what
we've said to further your exploration. It's our goal, of
course to offer great advice, to be helpful, but we
were part of mistakes as well. We're human, So Matt,
let's move on. Let's mention the beer that we're having

(04:08):
on this episode. So it's called Community Connection. It's by
Creature Comforts, brewing out of Athens, Georgia, in collaboration with
something called Dancing Gnome. Never heard of another brewery, I wonder,
I believe it is all right, Well, we'll give our
thoughts on this pilsner, which, oh my gosh, we need
to be celebrating because this is our first beer back
after our hiatus of whole yearly drinking crap beers, and

(04:30):
I am really excited to share our thoughts on the
spear at the end of the episode. I'm so pumped
to actually be drinking something tasty like this. Our time
in beer purgatory is over, so we'll give our thoughts
on this our dues. And by the way, if you
have a money question, you can go to how to
money dot com slash ask and find the easy instructions
for how to record and submit your question to us
there or literally just record your question, be a voice

(04:53):
memo and tend it our way at how to Money
Pod at gmail dot com. Matt, let's get to the
first question. This one is specifically about what if your
parents are so good with money?

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Hey, Matt and Joel, this has been from Grand Rapids.
So I've got a question, and this is for me
and my three brothers, but probably for a lot of
people that are in, you know, somewhat similar situations. So,
you know, I grew up in a family where I
wouldn't you know, by no means say we grew up
in poverty. But you know, we have never had a

(05:22):
ton of money around the house, and you know, arguably worse.
You know, we just saw a lot of bad financial scripts.
My parents were just pretty bad with money, kind of
took on a lot of debt, and you know, they
never really came together as a team on money or
just really made any kind of good financial decisions. So anyway,
my brothers and I we're all very well aware of that,

(05:46):
even at a young age. So we've been very intentional
as we've grown up and gone to school and got
jobs to you know, be smart with money to get educated.
So we've read a lot of books. That's kind of
how I found your podcast. And now we're kind of
all in this situation where we're getting married, some of
us are having kids, and we're starting to build families,

(06:06):
and you know, we really want to set our families
up for financial success. And I think we've done a
pretty good job so far. But there's this kind of
looming cloud over us of our parents. And you know,
while neither of them are sick and like dying right now,
you know, we do have a concern of you know,

(06:27):
kind of in the short term some like medical long
term care that you know, they have no money set
aside for, but also you know, in a more morbid way,
you know, one day they will pass away. And they
have a lot of debt, whether it's college debt from
helping some of my brothers with school, credit card, car
potential medical debt, and they have just been quite unwise

(06:51):
with the way that they've handled things. And you know,
really we're just kind of wondering, I guess two questions. One,
what specific things can we do or should we know
of debt that might get passed down to us. And
then the second thing is, how would you recommend approaching
your parents in this situation where you know, we still

(07:12):
love them, We want to be respectful, but we also
want to be kind of stern and say, hey, you
know it affects us and it more importantly affects our families.
We want to know what your financial situation is so
we can understand the potential liabilities that we might have
to deal with and you know, get them on, you know,
whether it's a Dave Ramsey baby steps or something like that.

(07:34):
I think there is potential that they want to learn.
But you know, one of our concerns is that pride
might get in the way and that might they might
not want to show us some of the skeletons in
their closet. So, you know, how would you recommend just
having a respectful conversation where you know, we really do
get honest and they can just share what we're dealing with,

(07:56):
or you know, is this not necessary and that just
doesn't get passed down and we can we can move on. Thanks, guys,
really appreciate your show.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Matt. First things first, I'm curious how do you think
about thinking about death?

Speaker 2 (08:08):
How do I think about thinking about death? It's something
I visit occasionally.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Okay, I'm just like, you know, I feel like, uh, focus,
did you latch onto that part of Ben's question? Well,
it just I mean he made it sound like it
was a taboo thing to mention, and I'm like, well,
I don't know, man, the stoics would say that it's
something we should think about more often and it's the
ultimate reality, and so similar with money, like maybe talking
about death shouldn't be as taboo as it is. Yeah,
what is the what is the stoic saying momento? MORI?

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yes, what is? And that means like one day you
will die? Yeah, like eventually we're all going to die,
and so to be reminded.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Of that, I think it's really like a coin or
we'll put a skull on the desk or something exactly.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
No.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well, I mean, like Ben's mentioning that not necessarily because
his parents are you know, like like you said, they're
not on their deathbed or anything like that, But this
is something that's on his mind because of the fact
that they've made not great financial decisions during their lifetimes.
But bottom line, I think that there is a lot
to be said up about Ben and his brothers. I
like that it sounds like even though they had an
upbringing where money wasn't necessarily handled well, that somehow that

(09:07):
they were still able to find their way to personal
finance and to handle their money in a healthy and
responsible way shows a lot of personal fortitude, a lot
of wisdom that he's been able to gain over the years.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
His brothers too, And it's this interesting thing, Matt. I
feel like parental financial issues can sour a relationship. They
don't have to, but they can. It makes me think
of a friend who she had like the utmost respect
for her dad, and then she found out that he,
you know, in his sixties, had gotten into all these
financial issues and it just changed the way she perceived him.
And I think like, sometimes it can show if we're

(09:40):
bad with money, or if we make some bigger mistakes
that affect our family, that affect maybe like a parent
has to move in with a kid or something like that,
and you're just like, oh, man, I wish you had
prepared better. And so I think handling money well and
it doesn't mean getting uber rich or anything like that,
but just like not being bad with money can is
part of healthy relationships, and if we handle money poorly,

(10:01):
it can change the way other people view us. I
don't know if it should or not, but I think
it does. I think it's just like a reality of life.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
And that's I think that's a reality too, of getting older,
because like when you're younger, you think your parents are infallible, right,
like they're like, oh, I mean they're your hero and
oftentimes that they can do no wrong in your eye.
But then as you get a little bit older, you're like,
wait a minute, that's not exactly how I view the world,
and you start to I don't know what the term
is called, but when you start to differentiate and create
your own, your own persona, I think I think that's
the word differentiating. So but I love that Ben said

(10:30):
that there's potential for his folks to want to learn,
and I think that that is a good sign because
I do think that like when it comes to parents
in situations like this, I think pride and I think
shame they can often get in the way, and fear
often keeps the kids from bringing this topic up with
their parents, and so there's a lot of emotions involved.
But I think if you attempt to have these conversations

(10:52):
with humility and with kindness. I think it is really
possible to get that conversation rolling, to have these conversations
without hurting their feelings. And specifically, Ben, I want to
encourage you to go back. And this is a pretty
deep cut, but listen back to episode one fourteen, which
is all about having hard financial conversations with your parents.

(11:12):
There's a lot of great advice from guest Cameron Huddleston
about exactly how to approach those kind of conversations. And
I think it certainly makes sense to have a conversation.
It can be a good trust building thing. And you know,
I'm not sure how old your folks are, but I
think they still got time to make some real progress
despite their money issues up to this point. It's not
like a foregone conclusion that they're going to die destitute necessarily.

(11:36):
It's not easy, but it sounds like that you are
in a good headspace in order to do this well.
You're approaching it. I don't know the words that you're using.
Makes it sound like that you're looking at this from
a healthy perspective.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, we talk all the time about getting started early,
but even though getting started late and even putting yourself
behind the eight ball doesn't mean you can't make significant
progress for yourself and for your kids too. So your
parents have time in good health, you said, like they
maybe let's say they're in their sixties, maybe they're in
their early seventies, they could still have I was talking
to my grandma the other day, Matt. She's ninety three.

(12:07):
I was like, you might have a decade left, Grandma.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
She's still still working that nine to five nice and
weekends a little bit too. Yeah, Oh, you know, she's
a hustler. She buys that Gary Vee juice, right, so
she's all about that. No, she's obviously been retired for
a long time now. But I'm like, Graa, you might
have a lot of time left on this earth. Like
my neighbor's ninety nine. My neighbor's sister is one hundred
and two, So like, you just never know, don't tell
me that you talk to your grandma? Was like, what

(12:30):
do you want to do when you grow up? No,
it's not that kind of thing. Oh, Joel's the guru
over nothing like that. You guys so much life ahead
of you.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
But it's true, like there's a lot still potentially multiple decades.
Sure to make changes to how you handle things, to
make changes to your habits, and to make changes to
your trajectory to where your financial future is headed. Because again,
that impacts you, and that impacts the people around you
that you love too. Let's get to kind of the
heart of Ben's question. He wants to know, like what
debts he's going to be responsible for, and he alluded

(12:59):
to this us to the googling that he did, but
likely none. Right, if there are any co signed loans,
those could potentially present an issue. College loans perhaps, But
when your parents do pass away, their personal property and
their assets will pass to their estate, and so then
their estate repays any unpaid debt like taxes or unpaid

(13:20):
credit card balances, and then if the total outstanding debt
exceeds the value of the estate, then the remaining debt
typically doesn't get paid. Right, the companies that hold that debt,
they're out of luck. And that doesn't mean the debt
collectors won't try to trick you into thinking you're responsible,
because debt collectors can be a nefarious bunch, but you're
not on the hook for it. So you might start

(13:40):
to get some phone calls after that fateful date, but
just know that legally you're not obligated to pay off
the debts that your parents took out exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, I feel like this is one of those areas
where folks it's something that is in the back of
their minds and it's just like been described, it's like
this thing that's kind of like the dark cloud looming,
and you're just like, oh, at some point, we're going
to have to address this, and we're going to get
into the mess and figure out all that we owe.
There is no such thing as inherited debt, like Jill said,
unless you co signed, and hopefully you did not, And

(14:09):
we're also not keen on you helping your folks actually
to pay off their debts given your lack of illegal
obligation to do that. I didn't hear you mention anything
along those lines about you trying to clean up the
mess perhaps that they've made.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
But instead, I think, especially if you love your parents,
I think that might be a fee natural feel. Yeah,
I feel kind.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
To do that, but you talk to your brothers and
you're like, hey, let's pitch in and help them out.
But yeah, it sounds like it might be even bigger
than something that they could even the three of them
tackle and take on together. But I think if you
were to point your folks in the direction of help,
like for instance, money management international, like that's one thing,
but yeah, pooling your sibling resources, it doesn't make a
lot of sense given that this debt isn't yours. That

(14:49):
being said, I think the only exception is potentially the
student loans that you mentioned. I think I could see
you possibly having like a moral responsibility to maybe help
out a little bit. I think it's worth at least
considering maybe helping your folks out with that part of
the debt burden.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
That they have.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
So again, yeah, there's no legal obligation, but I could
see that being something that if you wanted to that
that could be a nice thing to kind of help
them out with.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, and I think I could also help break down
some of the conversational walls that often get thrown up
when you're trying to talk about money with your parents,
Like it allows them to see that you are willing
to help them on multiple fronts, not just be like
go through this person to fix what you've screwed up.
You're kind of getting your hands dirty a little bit.
At the same time, keep those boundaries clear, don't start
paying off any of their other debts. But I do

(15:35):
think that gesture goes a long way towards helping your
parents see the light. And nobody really likes to be
lectured at nauseam about their mistakes or even just pointed
towards resources. But I think, yeah, if you're willing to
partake in at least that one debt with them, alongside
of them, that can help move the ball forward. And
I think it also matters want to highlight that Ben

(15:57):
is not alone in this. Obviously he's got his brothers.
But even besides that, like millions of kids are going
through something similar in this country, the old Sandwich generation,
and those kids are now growing up. They're like millennials
with jobs or our young gen zers with who are
in the workforce now, and they're realizing that their parents
didn't know anything about personal finance and that their parents

(16:18):
have slowly dug themselves into a financial hole and decades
later after like poor financial decisions, Matt, those things can
compound the whole can be quite deep. But there are
steps that they can take right now to write the
ship and the help, I would say of a nonprofit
debt counselor an informed third party could be the perfect
place to start if they're willing and so hopefully, Yeah,
you can enter into that conversation with humility combined with information,

(16:42):
combined with a can do spirit, so they actually maybe
get excited about jumping in fixing this mess and kind
of you know, changing the narrative totally.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, I will say there. I think there can be
certain times in certain situations where somebody doesn't want to
make progress. It sounds like that his parents are willing
to make progress. But again, given the fact that he's
not nor his brothers are legally responsible for any of
this debt, I think it's willing to try to have
some of these conversations. But at the same time, if
they're not willing to have these conversations, man, I would

(17:10):
much rather value the state of your relationship with them
rather than making sure that they've got all their ducks
lined up and how they're all their ducks all in
a row, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Like another animal reference, you can lead a horse to water.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, that's that's exactly what I was thinking about. You
can't make them drink and in this case, maybe they
don't want to drink and so you can be a resource,
you can be encouraging, but ultimately they may not necessarily
want to change their ways. But uh, Ben, yeah, we
do hope that that gives you some food for thought
and hopefully, yeah, you are able to equip your parents
with some better money scripts since it sounds like that

(17:43):
you didn't grow up with many of those. But Joel,
we've got more to get to during this episode. Specifically,
we're gonna talk about something we don't often talk about.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
We're gonna talk about.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Gift cards, how to go about handling those. We'll get
to that more right after.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
This our Matt, we're back. We've got more money questions.
We got to get to. This next question is actually
more existential. Money's involved, but it's not at the core
of this question.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
Hey, Matt and Joel, this is Justin Peters from Austin, Texas.
My question for you. I am moving into a period
of life where I don't know, maybe I'm inching closer
to coast fire, but I'm having a lot of trouble
letting go of the type a personality that's really gotten
me here and starting to enjoy some of the fruits
of my labor. I'm wondering through your own experience, was

(18:33):
there something that helped you transition out of savor and
frugality mindset and into somebody that could spend some money
on some things they can enjoy right now. I really
appreciate your insight and thanks again for the awesome show.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Joe.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
We should have let into this question sharing that Justin
is a fellow personal finance money nerd in the space.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
He's got his own podcast, The Struggle is Real. Of
course he didn't mention that, but we wanted to make
sure we give his show a little a quick little plug.
I was on there a few months ago. I had
a great combo. He asked killer questions. So, yeah, great
show that Justin.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Did y'all talk about running because you have gotten more
into running since you saw him last and he's a
pretty hardcore run he is. No, we didn't talk about that,
but U BO, Yeah, yes, talk about next, but do.
Let's talk about Justin's conundrum here though, And first off,
Coast Fire. That's a big achievement like that and what
that really means if you don't into the intricate lingo
of the fire movement is that you have frontloaded the

(19:26):
sacrifice to such an extent that you have saved and
invested enough money that even if you didn't invest another dollar,
you'd have enough money to retire by the time you
reach retirement age. So that's a that's a pretty cool accomplishment, right,
and it's our favorite fire approach. Like the cool thing
about hitting coast fire is that you you've invested enough
so that growth alone does the work for you in

(19:47):
the coming year, so that you can kind of chill
ax a little bit and and spend more of your
money in the here and now. And that's really only
possible mat we're talking about getting started early. If you
get started really early for most of I mean, if
you're not starting in your twenties.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
It's pretty hard to hit that. And most folks ultimately
don't abandon contributions altogether. Typically they just reduce them, which
allows them to again enjoy some more of those dollars
now trying to strike that healthy balance, which is exactly
kind of what Justin's asking now. He's like, hey, I
went so hard. I took the nose to the grindstone approach.
I funneled so many dollars into my retirement accounts, and
I'm so used to living on a small portion of

(20:26):
what I make, maybe maybe half. I don't know. I
don't know what a savings right was, So how do
I start to incorporate those now that I've already hit
this milestone and it can be tough to turn on
a dime like that. Yeah, No, I totally agree.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
If you've been getting really getting after you, if you've
been say, socking away like forty percent of your income,
I think it's going to be hard to reduce that
to the standard ten percent. What are you gonna do
with all that extra money? Which isn't necessarily a You know,
that's not a problem that most Americans have, That's not
a terrible conundrum, but I do think it's a real problem,
especially for folks who have been really focused, They've been.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Really buttoned up when it comes to their finances. Yea,
the typical American issue is it's the opposite. I spend
too much, I spend more than I earn. I've done
myself into a debt hole. How do I get out?
This is like abnormal, but it's it's still a problem
worth fixing.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
It's worth mentioning too that and this might be a
slightly different take that it's okay to not spend all
of your money. And I know this isn't necessarily what
you're what you're asking justin but I think everyone is
wired differently, and you might maybe like maybe you've done
a little bit of soul searching and you've realized, you
know what, I have found that I don't garner a
whole lot of purpose out of being an American consumer, right, Like,

(21:30):
maybe you have spent some money more in some of
the different areas of your life and you're just not
it's just not moving the needle for you. And I
think that's okay, But like, what is it that is
going to bring you more fulfillment? And maybe that's giving
your money away, and maybe that's volunteering. Maybe that's taking
a job in a career industry that is less, that
doesn't pay nearly as well, but perhaps brings you a
lot more life satisfaction. And I think that's totally worth considering.

(21:54):
Like it makes me think of like Victor Frankel and
how the individuals who survive that those terrible circumstances that
he documents, the folks who survived were the ones that
had purpose, and it was oftentimes something that was outside
of them, right there was like a hope, whether it
was like a family member or like a study that
wanted to be published, or a book that they wanted
to write.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
The other mission, they have a mission.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
There are these things outside of yourself other than just
like your temporary happiness. And I think that's what we're
trying trying to avoid here. And I don't I don't
mean to go like too deep too quickly here, but
like I think Justin specifically is looking for some practical
tips on some hey, how can I just start ramping
up my spending in a way, like he said that
does give him the freedom to let go a little

(22:35):
bit to where it doesn't feel like, yeah, he is
going counter to who he is as an individual. While
you know, I don't think there's many people who want
to die, you know, and end up on their deathbed
with tons of money in the bank without there being
stones unturned, right, Like, that's the thing, That's what I guess,
that's what I'm trying to get at. I think it's
okay to have a ton of money in your old

(22:56):
age as long as you've turned over all those stones
and been like, is this something that that brings me
happiness and fulfillment?

Speaker 1 (23:02):
What about this? What about that? It's the folks who
don't explore, but it sounds like Justin's doing a whole
lot of self exploration.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
The fact that he's even asking this question tells me
a lot about where he is on his journey.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, he's kind of gnawing it over right in his mind,
He's molding it over. And I will say I think
that this is one of the faults of the fire
movement is that it can become so about the numbers,
and so about a massively high savings rate, and so
about all the levers that you can pull to be
the most efficient, that maybe you're missing out you haven't
done enough thinking about the life part of things. Yes,

(23:34):
and money in and of itself, there's a lot of
important things. It's an important tool that impacts our lives
in incredible ways. But it's also important to think so
much about money that we're not thinking you enough about
like the more important things that are going on around us,
the relationships community, friends, family, and activities, like even just

(23:55):
kind of balance in our lives. And right, I think
This is a problem that specifically plagues the fire community.
When an intensely high savings rate is the highest virtue
and you've been practicing it for a long time, it's
just it's hard to get out of that mindset, right.
I think the first thing you need is the desire
to get out of that mindset, which Justin has totally.
He wants to find a way to spend more or

(24:17):
at least find ways to be a little less focused
on the money goal. And I think the next thing
you need to realize is that it's a process.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Right.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
It's more like turning the rudder of a ship a
couple of clicks. It's less like going from Clark Kent
to Superman, right, where you just have to Yeah, it's
it's just, yeah, it's not something that happens overnight. And
I think we also, like in Matt, you and I
mindful spending to a muscle that needs to be exercised.
You've seen pictures of that dude, the liver King, you know,
the like outrageously strong dude who kind of faked it.

(24:46):
Actually it starts out on teroids. Yeah yeah, but like
his body it's like insane, it's like insane and probably
some of you out there might want to be buff
like that. Dude. That's just not how it works though, right,
And you know that doesn't happen overnight. The most important
shifts that are going to happen for so whether it's
in how we relate to money, whether it's in how
we relate to our bodies, it does take a mindset shift.
But I think it's also important to note that it's

(25:08):
going to take time to know that ahead of time,
so you're not expecting immediate results and that you're going
to like, you know, change your colors immediately totally.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
And I don't know how old Justin is, but he's
a little bit younger. He's younger than me. I'll just
say that, who isn't now speaking of you know, kind
of adding on to what you're saying there. It does
take some time, but I do think, like for me,
the craft beer equivalent like that has been a guiding
LFE for us, you know, especially here on the show.
We don't want to end up like the French philosopher Didero,
where you upgrade one thing, but then you realize that

(25:36):
everything else in your life looks dingy, and you know,
so you go on a spending spree, and it just
undoes all the hard work and all the frugality that
you've established up to this point. But we do want
to intentionally highlight a few things that we're willing to
spend more on. We do want you to boost your
budget on purpose though, within those areas, and for a
while it might feel like you have to force yourself

(25:57):
to spend a little bit more, but I think it
won't take long before you get used to, you know,
those purse strings being a little bit looser. It makes
me think about my I don't want to say I
have an obsession with coffee, but maybe like ten years
ago I started.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
I don't know what you call it. If you don't
call it an obsessions.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
We started by Actually it wasn't even ten years ago,
because I remember talking about Aldi coffee on the show.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Which was like six years ago.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
So over the past six years, we always had a burgrinder,
so we'd always freshly grind our coffee at home and
try to make the best coffee you can. But then
over time you kind of reach the limit of what
you're able to do with that, and then you start thinking, Okay,
what we need now is a little kettle that way,
I know the exact temperature that I'm brewing my coffee, okay,
And you kind of reach the limit of that and
you realize, oh, it's time to start spending a little

(26:39):
bit more on coffee beans. And I'm at the point
now to where I've got a really nice burgrinder at
home that I'm kind of embarrassed at how much money
I spent on it, and dropping twenty plus dollars on
like twelve ounces of beans. It's not something I like.
It's not like at the beginning of that whole process,
I was looking to drop a whole lot of money
into the thing. But I did follow my curiosity and

(27:00):
I allowed myself to start to spend a little bit
more in this thing that I found enjoyable. So maybe
I guess maybe what I'm pointing out here justin is
follow your curiosity, Like what is it that lights you up?
But I'm pretty sure you're like into music festivals stuff
like that, because we know you personally, But like, what
does it look like to spend more like in that
area of life, Like what does it look like to
you know, as far as live music or or other

(27:21):
things associated with that yeah, things, all of the curiosities
that you already have, and like, I'm not going to
go like some folks talk about like cranking that up
to eleven and going like balls of the wall and
going crazy with it. But I think there's a way
to say, Okay, what's a way that I could just
one click up, just like you said, like the rudder,
it's just a couple of clicks, find the enjoyment within that,

(27:41):
but then then continue to move and progress beyond that
as well.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, And I think like we don't appreciate in the
same way if we go zero to eleven, but if
we go one click, two clicks at a time, we're like, oh,
we start to appreciate the nuance or something, and then
we like take the next step, and then.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
You want to savor each step along the way, as
opposed to skipping a bunch of steps to where there's
like a whole lot of waste.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
It feels like in the middle when you do that.
I think you're right. I think the craft beer equivalent
can be an influence here where it's like pick two
or three things that you're willing and excited to spend
more money on. Whether it's the running pursuit, whether it's
the music festival pursuit, whatever it is, where you're like,
here's how much I spend. Now what if I did
double that? Like, what would that look like? What would
I do? What's been on my bucket list that I
said no to because I was so trying to hit

(28:23):
some of these financial independence metrics that now I can
say yes too and still have money left over. I
think it's also helpful, Matt to think about the purchases
or trips that aren't going to pay off in the
same way if you were to wait too long.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Right.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
It's crucial obviously to know about delayed gratification compounding returns,
but justin know that stuff. Most of the folks listening
to this podcast know that stuff. Basically, what I'm saying
is like the incredible backpacking or skiing trip in your
late thirties, it's going to hit differently than it will
in your late sixties. Yep. Not that you're not still
going to be spry, potentially in great shape. But aging
is of course real, and some experiencers are best enjoyed

(28:59):
sooner rather than later. So maybe for you it's taken
more time off work and just getting paid lesser going
part time even how crazy would that be because hey,
guess what, I don't need the same income that I
used to need, and it leaves me all this time
for these other endeavors I'm interested in. But yeah, I think,
just know that there are windows of time where certain
things are going to be more valuable, especially in your youth,

(29:20):
and they're going to be later on. And I would
start to put things into buckets like what do I
need to get done in the next three years? What
can wait thirty years and start to kind of plan
your schedule and plan your purchases accordingly.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, like I you said windows of time because there
are different seasons that things are available to you. So
I will say that getting married, having a family, these
are things that have expanded the different financial goal and
not just financial goals but just life goals that I
have for myself as well, because I'm like, Okay, this
is not something I would have chosen, but turns out
now that I'm married and have a wife and have kids,

(29:51):
there are things that are more of a priority for
me now than they would have been, say, ten years ago.
And it makes me think about my oldest daughter, whose
life more than halfway through her residency at the Alt Mix.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Household before she's like out the door.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
And so what that does is it causes me to
prioritize my spending a little bit differently now, knowing that, like, man,
there is a runway and she's started down that runway
and at a certain point she's launching off into adulthood
on her own. And so that's another area where I
would say it's it's just good to be patient because
things are going to change, and you don't exactly know
how they're gonna change. But there are other goals and

(30:28):
desires that you might have once you move on to
different stages of life, and not to rush into any
of those different stages, but just to know that those are,
I don't know, they're kind of like looming on the horizon.
And even here's the other thing, even if they never
come and say, I'm like, okay, yeah, you got to
prioritize like the different goals that you're gonna have once
you have kids. Maybe it means like there's ways that

(30:49):
you travel now that guess what, like you naturally are
going to spend more when you get older, Like there
are certain things you're willing to sacrifice. You may be
willing to sleep on the cheapest couch at a friend's
place now while you're young, but when you're older, you're
just naturally going to be less willing to make those
kind of sacrific.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
That's I was going to say. It is like, yeah,
you might hit your coast fire giving your current lifestyle,
but your lifestyle might change. Yeah, We're constantly changing in dynamics,
and that's particularly true if your family situation changes, like yeah,
married with kids and all the things like summer camps
is here, Matt, Like, we're spending more money than I
I never even thought about that as a reality of
a future budget need when I was in my late twenties,

(31:26):
like even having first kids, it wasn't on my radar.
I was thinking about diapers and stuff like that, and
it's like, oh wow, some of these experiences for these
for the kids can be expensive. They add up, And
so yeah, I would say that's why you never want
to completely abandon the frugality and saving gene that got
you here. You definitely want to morph it and kind
of allow that to atrophy a little bit while you

(31:48):
pump up the spending abilities. But you also never want
that to go away completely because you never know. You
want that. You want to continue to be adding to
your freedom pile so that you have the ability to
change directions and to incorporate even more spending down the
line as circumstances changed. You just that freedom, that flexibility
is crucial. I think sometimes folks in the early parts
of the Fire movement, some of the youngest folks kind

(32:10):
of maybe they run the numbers, but then they're not
really thinking about the potential for future changes, and then
the plan doesn't get you as far in that.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yes, yeah, it's good to have optionality and to continue
to save for the future, even though right now you
might be saying to yourself, well, I'm happy, like nothing's
going to change. Well, changes are. You will have different priorities,
different goals down the road. But justin we hope that
that gets you pointed in the right direction. Joel us
here from our next listener. She's got a question, specifically
a nerdy budgeting question. Let's hear it.

Speaker 5 (32:38):
Hey, Matt and Jeel. My name's Georgia, I too live
in Atlanta. I'm wondering how you all account for gift
cards in your budget. Well, it's awesome that gift cards
can feel like bonus income. I don't love that the
redemption transactions are hidden from my budget. I think there's
value in tracking expenses for historical purposes, especially the ones
that I would have done anyways, but just so happen

(33:00):
to pay with the gift card. My budgeting system can't
connect to gift cards and read the transaction, so I
have to manually track them and categorize them appropriately and
just kind of a pain. Should I just ditch the
tracking and leave them out of my budget altogether? Or
is there a better way to ensure that my expenses
are accurate. I use my spending data to estimate how

(33:21):
much to budget annually or monthly, so ignoring expenses that
were paid with the gift card skews my estimates. Thanks
so much.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Love the show, Matt. I feel like Georgia lives in
the right city, not only because it's our city, but
because you know, if your name is Georgia gash live, we.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Should have a producer sitting here to kind of likem
like a jult of electricity.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
And you tid me to make a dad joke again,
I'm saying you can't moved to New York or San Francisco.
With that name, you got to live in the southeast.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
So and you know, she hears that like every time
she goes to fill out a form somewhere, especially sorry online.
It's one thing, but like in person, like if you're
in the state of Georgia, I'm.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Sure she hears it all.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
So.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
One of my favorite all time movies is True Romance
and Patrici shark HiT's character is named Alabama, and I
don't know, I thought about naming my daughter Alabama, even
though I live in Georgia. But my wife was like, nah,
that's we're not doing really. Yeah, I'm sure she veted
that that's like.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
To name one of our girls Savannah, not because it's
like a super kind of Southern name, but I wanted
to call her Van.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Because I thought that was totally rad. She totally vetoed that.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
It's like, Nope, we're not going to do that, all right,
wax out the veto power on that.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
I love George's attention to detail here too. Like gift cards,
people usually receive them and of course from somebody else
as a gift, and then I think most folks think
of them as free money to be spent however, they
like without repercussions, which I think is a totally fine approach, Like,
I'm not no shame in that game. But of course
you're going to gain more ground by incorporating, you know,

(34:46):
spending none of those gift cards into your budget. Right,
unless you're getting like gargantuane gift cards on the rag,
it's not going to make a massive difference. But it's
a cool conservative approach that functions in essence like a
forced method of saving. So I kind of like how
she's paying attention to that every nook and cranny of
her financial life. I mean, she's got it all buttoned up. Yeah,

(35:07):
But I'm not sure if there are any budgeting apps
that allow you to account forgift cards. I looked, I didn't.
I definitely didn't see any.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
But I think since it's kind of a one and
done thing, unlike a de better credit card, right, I
think it kind of makes sense though that budgeting software
doesn't have anyway to get to that data unless you
input it manually, which of course it is not seamless,
but it.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Is a way to keep track of those dollars that
you spend.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
And I think there is something about the manual inputting
of data that connects our brain to what it is
that we're spending in a more thorough way. I don't know,
it's not that like you're rubbing your face in the
mess that you made. But sometimes it depends on how
you spent that that month in a particular category. And
so I guess all that to say, this could be
a situation where it's a blessing in disguise and Georgia.

(35:53):
This is one of the reasons why I know there
are lots of different budgeting apps and software out there
that automates that I still manually input my expenses in
order for me to be able to pay attention to
what it is that we're spending in order to catch
any fluctuations in our behavior, which over time, could you know,
it compounds And so for me, it's something that even

(36:13):
though it from a does it make sense for me
to spend my time in this way, well not if
I'm only looking at like my hourly rate, but it
has more of an impact and I just want to.
I really enjoy keeping tabs on my spending in that way.
I like being able to keep up with it, and
I like being able to compare previously, like at the
end of the year, we had the ability to look
back on our expenses, compare that to previous years of spending,
and to see where we are as a family. I

(36:35):
think that's really important and it drives and it informs
the decisions that we make in the coming year. And
it seems like that's a big part of why Georgia
wants to keep.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Up with this. I'm curious how many gift cards she's
getting and what she's getting these gift cards for. If
this is like a minor thing and just kind of
like a type a perfectionism it's coming through, or maybe
I don't know, maybe some employers will give you gift
cards as like a bonus sometimes, so maybe they are
a significant part of kind of her quote unquote income essentially, maybe,
And so I get wanting to document that. I get.

(37:02):
The bad news is that there's not really it's a
manual thing. There's not really any way to do this
with any of the software that we like the best
when it comes to budgeting, which is like why NAB
and Monarch Money, those are two of the best out
there in the business right now, especially now the Mint
has gone away. So yeah, if you really really want
to keep track of this, you're going to have to
kind of implement a mat like system. There's not something

(37:24):
super deu breasy and Matt, we haven't really posted your
Excel budget spreadsheet recently. For all the nerds out there
are interested, we should put that in the show notes
for this episode up on howdmoney dot com. Yeah, so
the other option, So that's one one option right to
actually keep up with it. But the other option is
just a ditch it. That's what she said, to ditch
it completely. And I might recommend doing taking that approach,

(37:49):
treating those gift cards more like a complete and total
gift that just allows you to spend in a way
that you otherwise wouldn't and almost treat it more like
a bonus. And that's exactly how I treat it basically.
Any we have a gift card, like even cash on
hand as well, I treat like free money. It's just
it's just a little bit of extra spending money. And
someone gives you a bottle of bourbon. You don't stick
that into your booze budget like you know, deduct accordingly.

(38:11):
You just enjoy the bourbon.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I guess you could, but yeah, no, you just I
just enjoy it, and most of that comes down to
just not necessarily wanting to personally keep up with it. Yeah,
so that's yeah. I assume that's what you'll do as well.
On no perfect solution here we you know. Yeah, similarly,
we'll just use the gift cards and often it's to
a restaurant or something like that from a relative, and
we just enjoy it and we it basically means we

(38:34):
can eat out another time that we know we hadn't
budgeted for, so it feels like a sweet bonus and
it feels like an extra perk that we hadn't planned on,
which I which I love and appreciate. It's free money
more than anything, I will say. I think what's important
to do is just to make sure that you use
that gift card, because I don't know where the stats
are off the top of my head, but the number
of gift cards that are languishing in drum drawers, whether

(38:55):
or not your gift of that gift card, or whether
it's you that has that's gone out, because maybe you're
able to buy three hundred dollars worth of dining credit
for two hundred dollars Joel, that's something that you've done
at a favorite Mexican restaurant of ours back in town.
But if you don't use that gift card, well obviously
that's a big no no.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yeah. Now you got to make sure you use it,
keep them in a place where you're gonna take them
out with you all the time, yep, if they get prominent. Yeah,
and no one to overlook it, exactly. So that's the
worst thing about gift cards is people that go unused
and you forget about. It's wasted money. I think I
heard something about like Starbucks is like one of the
biggest banks out in the world just because of how
much money is sitting in Starbucks gift cards in people's accounts. Yeah,

(39:34):
it just doesn't get used or or lingers for a
long time at least. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
And I will say, you're more likely not to use
the card if it was gifted to you, because it
might be a restaurant or a store someplace that you
don't often frequent. And if that's the case, it's worth
checking out some different sites like card cash or giftcash
dot com or you can go on there and then
you put in your gift card how much it is
and they'll give you a quote.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
They'll tell you like, basically, let's say.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
You twenty five dollars gift card. You can go to
these different sites and they'll say, all right, we'll give
you twenty one bucks for that.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, and you might be for like Amazon than you
will for like the Gap. Sure, and you might be thinking, man,
that's a pretty steep cut. But here's the deal. What's
better to have like most of your money or none
of your money.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Like let's say you lose that gift card, or let's
say you have a gift card that expires. Man, it
is so much better to go ahead and exchange that
card for actual cash that you can then immediately deposit
in your account or go spend wherever it is that
you want. And so this is an instance where you
might be allowing perfect to be the enemy of good.
And if you have cards on hand that folks have
given you that you're not going to use, man, I
would totally unload those that again sites like card cash

(40:39):
or gift cash.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Doctor, or use them to buy gifts for other people.
Or I don't know, can you regift gift cards? I
think you can. Sure, I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
If you're like by the way, this expires next week. Well, typically,
like I might want to get on it.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Most of those gift cards don't expire, right, so, especially
like the big major brands, less of times they're good
in perpetuity. So if you're like I don't shop at
Old maybe, but my friend Sheila does, or I don't
know if she's your friends with other state names like
but just yeah, Montana, Montana exactly, they'd be a good name.
All right, But I hope that helps Georgia. Best of
luck to you, Thank you for listening. All right, Matt,

(41:11):
We've got more to get to and actually kind of
another fire related question, kind of piggybacking on Justin's a
little bit how expensive retiring early can be. We'll talk
about that in just a minute.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
All right, buddy, we are back from the break and
it is now time for the Facebook Question of the
Weekness is from an anonymous poster and they write for
someone retiring significantly early, think someone in their forties. What
are some of the hidden costs or catches that can
be a surprise and they can lead back to needing
employment or significant cuts to lifestyle. You want to make

(41:50):
sure they're planning ahead.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
What you think, Joel, well, this goes back to kind
of what we were saying with Justin, who's a little
bit younger. And so you want to be thinking about
these potential shifts, these potential life changes, or the potential
gotchas of retiring early. And yeah, if you are in
the lean fire camp where you're saving barely enough to
cover your bills, you might find that a bunch of

(42:13):
different things could impact your ability to stay retired. So
not that you need the one more year syndrome is
real too, but it's also crucial to be thinking about
patting and some of these other inevitable things that can
catch up to you. So let's cover a few that
could slap someone upside the face. Matt, who is retiring
in their forties. I think the first one is lifestyle

(42:34):
creep And actually this was something that a lot of
fellow how to Money Facebook members mentioned, which is so true?

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Basically, if all your friends are working, what are you
going to do with your time? You might have a
bunch of free or cheap hobbies, which is great. You
might be into disc golf and running and biking, and
those are like fairly cheap things to do on the rag,
But you also might be tempted to increase your spending too,
and so realize that, Hey, with more free time can

(43:02):
come more spending, it could come less spending too, Matt.
Maybe you're able to ditch a car, you're not spending
as much time commuting to work, something like that, Maybe
you can actually reduce some of your costs.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Have to spend all that money at Brooks Brothers on
your right when your business attire? Yes, so, but what
does that look like for you? At least be willing
to think about, how will I want to increase my
lifestyle if I'm working less, am I going to be
traveling more?

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah? Credit card rewards points will take you part of
the way, but they're not going to take you the
whole way. And so you're gonna need to budget accordingly
for that. And I would just make sure cool your
budget now looks one way, it's gonna look different when
you hit retirement in your forties, So just make sure
you're kind of at least thinking through how it could
be impacted.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Yeah, vacations specifically, because when you're working full time, taking
an offer a week or two, like once a year
like that seems like a normal amount of vacation. But
when you're retired, you're probably thinking, how come I'm not
always on vacation. That's certainly something to work to think through.
But healthcare, this was honestly the first thing I thought of,
because other members in the Facebook group they mentioned this

(44:03):
as well. But the cool thing for folks in the
fire crowd is that when you retire early, even if
you have millions of dollars in investments, it's often going
to make it look like your income is minimal. And
so the subsidies that you qualify for and the ultimate
price that you're gonna end up paying for healthcare, well,
it revolves around your family size and your income, not your.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Net worse, which is a good sign. Right, So you're
basically good healthcare might not cost you as much as
you think.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Yeah, but it depends too on how long these massively
generous subsidies are going to continue, right, Like how long
they're actually going to be around that's another conversation. But
just build in some substantial flexibility for your cost I
think potentially to rise dramatically.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
There's certain things even on the books now, Matt, that
are set to expire, including some of those generous subsidies
for people making under certain certain income thresholds. There's even
the tax cuts and job dec which is set to expire.
So these are not even just like, oh, will politicians
do this or that? And granted they might do something
that keeps those things around, but they also might not.
And so if you're planning on your health care costs

(45:03):
staying the exact same or going up at just the
general rate of inflation, you're being myopic. On the note
of healthcare listener, hew, do you mentioned dental work that's
not covered by health insurance most of the time, right,
there's a separate dental policy. It is, well, I think
depends on how about your teeth are and you can
do like medical tourism rights to potentially cut down on

(45:23):
some of the costs vacationion and get your teeth fixed
exactly exactly, sitting pool side anyway, sitting Pinicolada, you don't
need to be chewing, then you don't even need teeth,
yeah for that, But a lot of those costs are
going to be out of pocket. Who knows what your
mouth situation is, like anonymous poster, but I would at
least think about having money on hand for potential dental care.
And then Matt continuing on, I think something else inflation right.

(45:46):
Many retirement models factor in a two or three percent
rate of inflation, but what if it's hire right? Can
you imagine having been the person who retired in late
twenty nineteen, right, running standard numbers, it seemed reasonable At
the time, rates had been relatively steady. We hadn't seen
out of control inflation in decades. But alas inflation reared
its suddly head in a massive way. And so if

(46:09):
you had just reduced your liquidity paying off your two
and a half percent mortgage and you moved into more
conservative investments, largely missing out on the massive stock market
run up that happened after that COVID dip, you found
yourself in a really tough spot financially speaking, and your
plans just didn't shake out the way the hoped, And
so inflation was not slowly, but it was rapidly reducing

(46:29):
your buying power. Inflation is back under control to a
certain extent, not back where the Feds won it, but man,
you've got at least factor in for some of those
outsized things that you can't control. I think COVID, which
has shown a dramatic spotlight on some of the things
that are out of our control that can significantly impact
our finances.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, and you kind of rolled two things into one there,
like you're talking about inflation, but then you were kind
of talking about the stock market, and that's I think
that's another risk because when you're drawing down on your investments,
you're typically moving your assets into more conservative investments, which means, Yeah,
the risks that you do run is missing out on
outsized returns there within the market. I'll point out though,
that everything we've talked about so far, so we've talked

(47:08):
about like lifestyle, cree, healthcare, taxes, these are all sort
of financial considerations. And I think one other consideration is
how it is not that you're gonna be spending your money,
but how you're gonna be spending your time. Because as
an individual who's maybe been in a job or an
industry for like twenty thirty years, I think it can
be difficult to break out of the mindset of where

(47:29):
it is that you find your identity because like the
jobs that we have that like that is most likely
the biggest impact that we have on society, right, Like
this is something you do at least eight hours a
day typically, and and you do such a good job
at it that they pay you thousands.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Of dollars every month.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Okay, Now imagine a world where you are completely divorced
from that situation like that is what retirement.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Is like, the jarring, Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
And so for a lot of folks, I think one
of the risks you run is not going back to
work because you need the money, but because you need
the purpose. And so I think it pays to make
sure that you've found purpose and how it is that
you want to spend your time outside of the walls
of weir of your employees.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Makes the thing. We had a friend who she and
her husband early retired, and you know what he was
doing not too long after he quit his day job.
He was driving for Uber yep. And it wasn't because
they ran on the funds or because the stock market
took a step back. It was because he didn't know
what to do with his time.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
He is looking to be an active member of society
and find a way to contribute.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
He was one of those talking to buber drivers, Matt
because he was missing the personal connection that you get
with people. And I'm sure every time someone came in
with earbuds and he that would be you put a
frown on, so it would be me exactly. That's why
I know I need this outlet at least to some degree.
But dialing it back maybe he was like, I need
to be somewhere where I can just talk and people lin't.
Dialing it back a little bit and maybe not going
to whole hog all or nothing, maybe that's a better

(48:49):
way to at least like test the waters, or kind
of like we talked about with Jillian Johns, are doing
a long a sabbatical, like taking two months off, taking
four months off, finding a way to test the way
before you go all in and say I'm just bagging
work and I'm never going to work again. I think
I can be a healthier approach. It can at least
allow you to know how you're going to respond to

(49:09):
it in ways other than just the financial ones. Totally.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Absolutely, it's important to think through how you're going to
garner that life satisfaction and fulfillment once that's no longer
something that you're doing every single day and I or not.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Dudes who think that work is the only thing they
can give you that satisfaction but it's recognizing the fact
that it does because truly, especially in America, sadly, for
so many people, it is it is probably like one
of those top three things, if not the number one thing. Well,
like I get it because it's what we spend most
of our time doing, like throughout the day, right, and
so on one hand, like there's a healthy approach to it,
but there's got to be things outside of that, And
I do think that over time you can start shifting

(49:43):
towards some of those things outside of work. Like early
it's sort of.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Like investing, right, We're like, early on, you're going after
it really hard. But over time you start to maybe
I don't know, maybe it's maturity, Maybe you realize that
there are things outside of the walls of your employer,
outside of your business, that you want to do. But
I guess what I'm pointing out is the fact that
not everyone has given that thought that there is something
beyond that, and that's that's when it starts to get dangerous,

(50:07):
and that's when it's unhealthy, I think.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Yeah, and that's when you retire and then you find
yourself watching your freakingity on repeat at two PM in
the after and like all those soap operas that apparently
are still on television. I didn't nice. One of my
friends like when to look for to get her car fixed?
Her the other day she was like, apparently this is
like General Hospital still on. I was like, oh, okay, wow,
it's had a long run. All right, let's get back
to the beer for this episode. This one's called Community Connection.
Speaking of what we were just talking about, uh an

(50:31):
apt name for this New Zealand pilsner. What were your
thoughts on this beer?

Speaker 2 (50:35):
What's great is that a lot of the crappier beers
we've had over the in the previous weeks were also
pilsners because it's typically just an eat. I guess it's
an easy to make, widely enjoyed style of beer, and
so it's awesome to kick things off come back to
the craft beer scene with an amazing pilsner.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah, this one's this one is levels above so good.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
So, you know, the first thing that I noticed, like
the there's almost like a dank funkiness to the hops
and it reminded me a ton of Katie where it's
a weird way to describe it, but it's it reminds
me of like a burnt clutch or something like that,
like sometimes like like when you're on the interstate, like
which most people don't even know what that smells like,
Like if someone's like frying out their clutch, if you've

(51:17):
got like somebody learning how to drive for the first time,
I'm shift, do you know what I'm talking about? It's
sort of like this smoky, kind of dank, funky funkiness
I'm picking up with that oftentimes you get in some
of those spontaneously fermented Belgian beers, but there's a note
of that within this, uh, this pilsner.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
I thought I had like some some earthy grassiness to
it too, like it had some kind of like rootsy
vibes going on. But it also had like the the
hop action too, and those New Zealand hops for some
reason so good. The New Zealand and Australian hops are
like better than a lot of the American hops. And
this being a pilsner with hops, it's not like mouth
blowing like a like an ipa, but it's like those

(51:55):
subtle that subtle hot presence in there. It's just is money.
This is some grassy, delicious fly. Yeah. Yeah, you don't
get in Macro Pilsners. That's for sure. Yeah. Cool, Glad we.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Got to enjoy that together. Glad you picked this one up,
and that's gonna be it for this episode of How
to Money. You can find our show notes up on
the website at how tomoney dot com some of the
different resources we may have mentioned. If you have not
left us a review, well we would love it if
you did. You can head to Apple Podcasts or wherever
it is that you listen to podcasts and leave us
a solid one over there. It helps us to get

(52:24):
the word out for folks to find How to Money podcast.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Say something nice, maybe hit the five star button. We'd
appreciate it. That's right, all right, that's gonna do it
for this one, Matt. Until next time, best friends Out.
I'm best friends Out.