Our Wives Dish on Lifestyle Creep! #857

Join us for a very laid back conversation with our better halves: Kate and Emily sit down behind the mics with us while we enjoyed a summer vacation at the beach last week. Rather than field listener questions, we had a delightful and inquisitive discussion that centered around increased spending. How we’ve managed rising prices whether that’s simply due to inflation or if lifestyle creep is a factor, accounting for additional sources of income, whether our frugality keeps us from more expensive pursuits, hitting pause on investing, the fear of running out of money (or having too much?), raising money savvy kids, aging parents, and plenty more!

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to a Head of Money.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Joel, and I am.

Speaker 3 (00:03):
Matt, I'm Kate, I'm Emily.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
And today we're having a conversation with our better habs.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yeah. So normally we've got a little introduction, like a
little biography or whoever we're talking with, but I think
today we're just gonna start talking. This is the podcast, guys.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Emily was born on a snowy January evening.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
This is true.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yes, I was, so everyone knows this is uh. Once
a year we try to sit down with our wives
at the beach and we were blend work with play
a little bit, and so we get to crank out
an episode while we're at the beach, and so this
is something we've done before. Of course, maybe we'll link
to some of the previous Wives episodes from the past
and the show notes for this one.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
And if you don't do these episodes, people just burn
it all down. They get angry, they want to hear it. Yeah,
they love these three peet appearances. What this means, though,
is that we have heard from y'all. And I'm pretty
sure we've talked through craft beer equivalents, but do you
have a new craft beer equivalent Emily, do you want
to kick things off? What it is that you're splurging
and spending money on That might seem like a waste

(01:20):
of money, but to you it means everything.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
This is a bit embarrassing, but I have started to
mil my own wheat.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Martha Stewart, the petty Crocker, splurged.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
On some wheat berries and also a bread machine, which
we have not talked about yet.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Bread machine or an actual bread machine. Killer.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
No, both both of them. I've on both.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Christ Jewel, you got to go into the deep end.
You got Emily the mill for Mother's Day. For Mother's Day.
I haven't heard about the bread machine.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
It just came in the mail, So we're gonna give.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
It came in the mail. Why would he have been here?

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Can I can say more?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
I want to know how much you spent on it.
That's what I want to now, at least Oh.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
On the on the wheat berries. I think I spent
on the bread maker. Oh on the breadmaker, dude.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
It's yeah, it's not cheap. It's like three hundred and
fifty bucks.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
That's not bad. It's like a nice a place.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
So here's how I'm thinking.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
In the milk.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
If we save a dollar a loaf on every and
it's this And by the way, the bread that you're
able to make is just far s appearance much better
for you. It tastes much better. And if we just
stop buying bread at the store, it's gonna it will
overtime be a money save.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
We can't take bought bread at the store since I
got the wheat berries nice. And what we discovered is
that I'm not home enough to make co made bread
even though I've entered.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Into this hobby bread machine.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
So now we're still spending more money to make sure
my hobby works.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Officially, feel I don't want you to save it like
the full point of beer, Like, we're not saving money
by buying craft beer. It's not like that. This is
money that so like even thinking about it from the
standpoint of like, oh, this is going to save us
a dollar a loaf like that is in my opinion,
that is like the incorrect way of thinking about a
craft beer equivalent, like man's telling us wrong, you should
be doing it.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
It's really fun. I love to bake, but it's delicious.
I love to bake, my kids love to bake. It
has actually been really fun. Yeah, so we tasty and
tasty and we're into it, and we eat a lot
of carbs. So I'm like, well, these are great carbs
that we're eating.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
So we have been the benefactors of some of that
wonderfully hard red grain, for instance, is the term I
don't think I've ever said in my life until.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yes, you got your milk, until I got three giant
like sixty four.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Pound Kate, you have an updated craft beer equivalent.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Oh no, I'm pretty sure mine is still plants. Still
have you said still plants? Oh, I'm sure I've said it.
I can't imagine what else I would have said. Okay,
it is just that. And actually really haven't had a
lot of plants recently.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
It does like a jungle in your house. And I
mean that as a compliment.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Just keep getting there, which you keep them alive and
then can propagate them and it's amazing. A lot of
plants comeing.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Okay, so have we I don't think we've talked about
this on the show. My favorite plants that you've propagated
warm plants. There are the green onions from Aldi and
you chop the roots off because obviously you don't eat
the roots, but then you let them dry out, like
you save up a bunch of them, set them in
the garage, and then you throw them on the ground
and they sprout, and then we've got green onions everywhere.

(04:16):
And then they blossom too, which yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Huge, like eight inch white flowers.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, it's like a Doctor Seuss like it doesn't look
in proportion with their roster of our garden.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
But it's really fun.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
And the neighbors always like, what.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Is it that's exacting? It must cost a lot of money.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
It's my favorite too. They look amazing, they look super cool.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
It's like the lorax of green onion. She speaks for
them like, isn't.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Like really truly half your garden from Aldie, Like just
wasn't a lot replanted?

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah, there's a lot that's been from Leedle or Aldi
where I've kept roots of things and put them on
the ground.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
So it looks amazing. It's very cool.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
Maybe it's my craft beer equivalent because it takes so
much of my time, not as much that it takes
up so much of our money.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
That's another world. That's good. Okay, it's a time sink perhaps,
but it's like a good Yes, I'm sink. It's like,
you know, not, I'm not saying that in like a
bad way. It's just something that requires a whole lot
of times.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
That's what I'm spending on it right now is my time.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Okay, So let's just say one thing.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Had a friend text me yesterday, so we're on vacation
at the beach, and he was like, oh, what restaurants
have you enjoyed while you're there? And zoom, not a man,
No restaurants because Kate's a great cook and she's she's
willing to cook for eleven people, which is amazing. Uh.
And it's just it is interesting how much money it
says you like, oh my gosh, you pay the grocery
bill and you're like, dang, that's a lot of money

(05:33):
on food for all these folks this many days. But
think about what it would cost to go out to
eat even if we went out three or four times, like.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Like time six days, Oh my gosh, times eleven people. Yes,
like there's so much more. Yeah, you do all the multiplications.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
The work to get everyone out the door.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yes, with young kids. As we get older, maybe we'll
be into that more. But it's it's actually really nice
just to kind of we're either at the beach or at.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
The house, women in the pool, and we'll get ready.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, exactly, are equally excited to eat Kate's cooking as
they are to beat. They talk about both like up there.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Well, so you say that, and that being said, full
full transparency, we are gonna go get takeout tonight so
that we don't have to worry about doing meal prep
for dinner.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Right because I'm not cooking right now exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Instead the kids are. It's great because we're all sunburned.
Skin's all dried and cracked from like the salt water kizzard.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Some people are burned more than others need to be.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
In the shapes still haven't figured that out, have they.
But you gotta like test it out. You gotta figure
out which kid is responsible enough, and then slowly we
start figuring out you can.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
We should have known that one already, right.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, So we are at the beach and by the way,
it's getting dark out there, a little storm. I'm gonna
start storming a little bit. Yeah, so we're gonna have
a conversation that this is a little more laid back
that I feel like we've done previous Wife episodes. So
we'll kind of see where this where this ends up going.
But I still want to introduce the beer because we're
still obviously doing that. This is a lemon rattler. Uh
the z trone. I think that's how you say lemon.

(07:02):
Oh yeah in German. I don't know. Not a classic
beach beer. Is this Austrian?

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Is by Steegel? And is it? Is it an Austrian brewery?

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I couldn't tell you.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, we should have done that, but we have not
paid close attention.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
You in particular are a huge fan of rattlers at
the beach, and it's the perfect beach bear. That's the thing.
We've talked about this before, because you end up getting
something that you think is going to be tasty, but
then you take it outside and hundred degree heat with
humidity and the wind and the salt blowing, and all
of a sudden, you're kind of like it feels like
you're sitting down to eat like a Thanksgiving turkey, like
at lunch or I don't know, it's it's weird. It's

(07:37):
in IPA.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
But every beer needs to have its context mismatch, and
this beer, the beach is the perfect context. With this beer,
I don't really drink this beer any other time of year,
but when it comes to the beach, I'm loading up
with like four or four packs and I'm slinging them
with me. They're also like two percent.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Which is nice. That's another great reason. Yeah, all right,
but we kick things off. Yeah, all right, let's just
dive into it because I'm like, I mean, I promise
this is not intended as a brag. But any how,
money listener out there knows if they track their net worth,
if they have even just a vague idea. So this
is what we're talking about money. Obviously, Ladies, like our
net worth it has gone up in recent years, and

(08:11):
whether that's because of just the different gains that we've
seen in the market, or from our assets rising and
value like your home, how do you think that has
influenced your perception of money? Emily, I'll pitch this one
to you. First. Bottom line, we are wealthier, you know,
and again not to at all to our horns, but
when you do something for years and even decades over time,

(08:33):
it's inevitable. Do you think that that has impacted how
it is that you you view money. We're starting with
the easy questions. First, you know, like, what is your
what's your overall philosophy on what money is?

Speaker 3 (08:44):
So I'm warming up right here. Yeah, sorry, no, you know,
I think in so many ways, our day to day
lifestyle hasn't changed. So it takes me a minute to
think about how I would answer this, and I think
the answer that first comes to my mind is how
I answer it as a parent, which is I'm thankful
that I feel a little less angst over paying for

(09:06):
all the sports they do, or field trips or you know,
things that were difficult when they were younger and we
were on a much tighter budget.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Summer camps. They'll tell you how expensive those summer camps are.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, which is great. I mean, our kids love summer camp.
Our oldest girls went together for two weeks and it
was amazing. It was also really expensive, and next year
I think they're all going to go. And so you're like, whoa,
that's a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
A lot of folks are like, oh, us, you must
be so happy out of the diaper phase, because I
remember saying that. I remember thinking, oh, yeah, formula and
diapers once we are out of that in preschool, yeah,
and preschool and pre k like once we're able to
exit that phase, are going to save so much money.
That's not true.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
No, it's like it's in fact the opposite perpetual way
humans think. It's like, oh man, once I tackled this
problem or I'm done with this assignment, then I can
really kick back and relax. But there's always something for
humans to worry about, and then there's always another it's
headed your way, and so you're right, Matt, like, there's
it's always oh man, I can't wait to be done
with this phase, but then the next phase kicks in,

(10:08):
and sometimes it costs more, and so planning ahead and
just and being flexible and having some wiggle room built
in it's so crucial so that you can continue to
navigate those waters as expenses typically creep up as your
kids get older.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Think if I had to then go back, I hope
I answered that sincly. I think maybe it's changed my
perspective as I've just been grateful for it. It is
nice to be able to have to be able to
pay for your children and afford what they need and
want and it not be stressful. I've been very grateful
for that.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Okay, has your attitude towards the money changed over the
past five ten years.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
I think probably really similar to Emily. It's just it
took up more of my time that I was worried
about did I get the best deal or is this
the right choice if I'm going to spend money on this,
Like it just took up time and bandwidth and had
some anxiety with it before or we got to the
point where I could feel a little more comfortable and

(11:03):
I wouldn't have to spend as many conversations with you
or time on the internet trying to figure things out
like I used to trying to get the best deal
or trying to decide if we should spend this thirty
dollars or not.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
So it's interesting, like just less stress over money as
you feel like you've got more surefooting underneath.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, I feel like I've reclaimed some time and yeah,
emotional bandwidth to to not think about those things quite
as deeply as I did for a long time.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
I think it's one of the most powerful things that
money can do for it. We talk about so people
associate more money with oh, buying the beach ouse, not
just going to it or whatever, or upgrading the car,
but so much of the time. It is like, it's
what you don't spend that gives you the freedom and
that gives you the breathing room. And I see that
as like one of the biggest benefits of the stock

(11:55):
market being up forty percent, you're like over the past
two years or whatever, or and just I think the
power is in allowing yourself and having just more freedom
to to not worry and instead of like increased spending power,
it's it's it's and I don't know, maybe that's just

(12:16):
like a weird frugal person's way of thinking about things.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
But that's freedom and choice. Those are really important.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, I mean for y'all, paying for y'all school has
been a massive cost sync over the.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Most expensive hobby.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, but like I guess, how do you how do
y'all think about that, whether it's just the right now
the added expense, but also knowing though that in the
future there's going to be additional income. I mean, right,
you get paid now, you get a stipend, right.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, just because I got to just I got a grant,
but most interns are not paid, so this is very fortunate.
I did get a grant.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
So how are y'all, Yeah, how do you think about that?
Do you see that as as a financial investment, because
now you're able to not only pursue the things obviously
that you're interested and excited about, but do you how much?
I guess I'm curious how much are you counting on
the financial aspect of it once you are practicing full time?

Speaker 1 (13:08):
It's a better question for me, Matt. I'm really.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Kick up his feet and be done. I you know, so,
to be quite honest, I mean, I love this question.
We have not talked through it a ton. I'm not
sure we're really banking on it that much financially. I
think I went back to school. It almost felt just
more of like a calling, like this is what I'd
wanted to do for a long time. You want to
spend your time, Yeah, it's how I want to spend
my time. Just back to the whole time freedom and

(13:35):
time was my kids are getting older, This is actually
how I want to spend my.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Time, and how you want to use your gifts how
I want to use.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
My gifts, which has been really really fulfilling. So the
financial piece has like felt second place. I will say
it is expensive to be a working mom. We're paying
for a lot more childcare. I feel like we eat
out more, we're buying a breadmaker. There is some expense
to being gone more. So I think sometimes it's kind

(14:03):
of going to go back into that, especially initially.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, yeah, it's it is interesting, like talking about the
freedom and the options and stuff like that is something
we have talked about openly. Is just that our frugal habits,
savings rate net worth improvement means more flexible options for
the specific career path Emily wants to pursue upon graduation,
and so there's a lot of people would understandably. So

(14:27):
they graduate and it's like I got to get that
suite offer and start getting a legit paycheck. And yes,
it's going to be really nice to stop paying for
school and for you to be bringing home income. But
you're going to be able to decide in what capacity
you want to work, where you want to work. You're
currently interning at a nonprofit, you might work at a nonprofit.
And guess what, people in nonprofits don't They typically don't

(14:48):
get paid paid as much as private practitioners. And so
I think that's one of the coolest things is that
we've been able to save up and pay for this
education in cash, and then even after graduation, it's not like,
all right, you got to bring home six figures or
or else, like you got to make this thing pay off.
There's still a lot of flexibility there as to what
working looks like and income looks like.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yeah, totally. So I think flexibility will still be the
number one important, but it will be nice to have
some extra income. Probably it's going to go back into
sports in summer camps.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Do you think you can see what our priorities are
right now? Do you think there are ways where we
are spending money more in both for our lives, like
in y'all in your family's life and our family finances
as well, Kate, Because it's easy to put our finger
on some things like oh the breadmaker. Oh, I'm buying
artisanal grains and milling them at home, and Kate's like
I'm chopping up onions from ald and planning of those.

(15:43):
I mean, all I know is that our monthly expenses
have certainly gone up, and so I guess what I'm
pointing to is the fact that there are certain ways
that I know we are intentionally spending more because we
have identified, oh, we want to be able to provide
our kids with these kind of experiences. Yeah, that's gonna
be awesome, But I also know that that's not the

(16:04):
only reason our expenses have gone up. I guess, yeah,
how do you think about that? How do y'all think
about keeping lifestyle creep at bay basically without leaning hard
into the deprivation sort of mindset lifestyle where like early on, right,
like we were bro we didn't have any money, like
we had to do these things out of necessity. We
don't have to do those things out of necessity anymore.

(16:26):
And I think there are different ways where we have
seen our expenses increase, almost subconsciously, because in my mind,
that's lifestyle creep. Right, you can spend more on something
and because you enjoy it, that's the craft beer equivalent,
that's the thing that you are intentionally spending on. But
when it comes to lifestyle creep, what's like, it's nefarious, right,
It's like this sneaky thing and it's got its technicles
in you and you don't even realize it. And everything's

(16:46):
infected by the dinnero effect where you're spending more money
because then thing next to it now looks shabby, right,
it's got that whole thing, which is hard because how
are we supposed to know what it is that were
actually spending money on. Is I almost feel putting on
the spot right now and saying, hey, where are you
spending more money that you don't even realize it? But
I guess that's what I'm what I'm getting at convenience.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, I think that's true. I think that's true.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
I mean it makes our life easier, do not care?

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Case in point, for groceries here in years past, we
used to run out to the grocery store and stock
up for food for eleven people, and we placed an
Insta card order and guess what, there is a fee
and a tip not to mention inflated prices in general.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Service fee on top of delivery fee.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
So it's expensive to be expensive. But we were like, uh,
it's not worth three hours of our vacation to go
to the grocery store.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Even last year I made a run out to the
grocery store, and I think that's what that's when we
bought like the steaks for like our last couple of
meals or whatever. But I don't think we entertained that
idea at all, like you said, because it's such a
time suck.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
We did stop and get steaks on the way here,
Well we stopped it a cost going away.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Got that was about getting the best, that was about quality.
It's like, okay, yeah, we don't trust someone else.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
If you're going to get stakes, it's like, all right,
we're going to get it from the local grocery store
that's on the island, where not only are the prices inflated,
but it's also such a sub such an inferior cud
of meat versus getting prime rabbi at costco.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
It's hard to be that what are used to the
finer cuts.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
The finer things in life. Yeah, what do you think? Kay? Like?
I mean again, it's hard to have a pulse as
to where it is that we are spending more money
without actually I guess looking at a monthly expense report
or something like that.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
But I think we spend a little more on the
kids than is absolutely necessary. I think we love spending
on them when it comes to them and learning about
something that they want to learn more about. Like you
want to learn about gymnastics, We're going to do that.
You want to learn more about piano, Let's take piano
lessons these are not necessary things, but these are expenses

(18:54):
that are significant, that are monthly that we've just taken.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
On just because we want that for our kids.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
So I think probably a lot of the monthly, ongoing
expenses that we've taken on have been related to things
that kids are doing.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
The other yeah, the other tough thing is and I
know our listeners have felt this keenly, just like we
have the reality of inflation. All right, So it's like,
what are you spending more money on than you weren't
spending everything? Literally everything, you know, like literally everything, because
over historically, at least in our young adult lives, most
of our adult lives, prices have gone up slowly under

(19:33):
two to three percent, slowly but surely, so like we're
truly writing that two percent range. There was no really,
no outliers, like that's just how things worked, and COVID
obviously threw that off in a major way. And so
we're literally spending more on everything. Everything costs more, and
so it's hard to know, Wait, is this me being

(19:54):
fancy or is this just the reality that everything costs
more now? And it's probably mostly the latter, But yeah,
there's obviously some places in which were we've upgraded here
and there too.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Nice. All right, let's just take a quick break and
we'll get back.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
To chatting with our wives.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Or we're back from the breaks and we were just
talking about kind of unintentionally spending money. I'm curious. So
we as we've gotten older, we've picked up like different hobbies,
different things that we like to spend our money on.
Do you think, Kate, I'll pitch this to you, do
you think that there are things that if we were wealthier,
or if we had more income, that you would like

(20:38):
to spend more money on? Like basically, do you feel
like that there are some areas where like, basically you're
missing out on.

Speaker 4 (20:44):
I don't feel like there are areas where we're missing out,
But I do feel like if there was just an
endless amount of money, I would make different choices.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I think we would.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
I would want to travel more. I think a lot
of our conversations around travel with our kids have been
are they old enough to remember? It is everybody tall
enough to do?

Speaker 3 (21:04):
It is everybody?

Speaker 4 (21:06):
And you know whereas like, if if money were no object,
I think I would want us to travel more. When
our kids learn about the Boston tea party. I would
take them to Boston and when they learn about the
French Revolutionary go to Paris. You know, like, I would
love to do stuff like that without if money were
no object. But we do talk about travel with kids.

(21:28):
We continue to talk about putting that off, especially international travel,
because of the cost of it.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, that makes sense, Like in a similar way, I
guess sort of you're talking about earlier when it comes
to maybe groceries or something, it's like, oh, well, is
it the absolute best deal? Oh is there going to
be any waste? Right? Like every dollar spent on that
thing is off the mines. And that's what we're doing.
We're doing the travel when it comes to something like
travel because it's just a higher ticket item and so
it makes sense because there's more zeros behind it. But

(21:56):
I agree, Yeah, I think I think I would feel
similarly if we had more. But yeah, what I are
the things that Joel doesn't let you do because it
cost too much.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Worthy, Well, it's funny listening to you guys talk. I
think one of the things that would change is I
do feel the pressure too sometimes, like make the perfect
money decision or I'll make a decision and then Joel
asked me about the three things that I didn't think about,
and I'm like, I don't know. I thought about the
first two, and probably it was is this the most
convenient because that tends to be my default. So maybe

(22:24):
just in general, there could be a little less pressure.
But also I think that's it's not bad. That's personality
and disposition and how we've gotten where we are. Something
tangible would probably be travel too. I think I'm in
that same boat. I love traveling with her family. It's
so fun, and I would love to do that more
and more. And that's what I mean. Selma, our oldest

(22:46):
just had a birthday and that's what she's asked for
for the past year, as a trip to New York.
So you know, that's what we're going to do for her,
and that is the best. Like that has just felt
like so fun to give that to her, and I
would look forward to doing that more and more and
fill in the freedom to do that more and more.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Southwest points for the win on that one, Yeah points
or did y'all work up to the Companion pass? No, No,
we didn't quite hit that, but we I mean so
many Southwest points now, Yeah, thinks.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Even without getting the Companion Pass, yeah, which I will
say for that to make a lot of sense, you
need to be traveling a good bit. Yeah, Like we've
definitely taken advantage of it multiple times, but mostly because
I just wanted to do it, because we'd never done
it before. It's just like, oh, what does it like
to experience the companion Pass? But yeah, I'm not sure
for well, obviously we will continue to hang on to
the Southwest points since they don't expire, and since we

(23:35):
still like to fly Southwest.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
But you wait for the Southwest sales man sometimes at
thirty or forty percent off, and it's when you pay
with points, and so yeah, the round trip to New
York was pretty cheap, so yeah, it makes it. I
will say, like, you look at the flabbergasting price of travel,
and there are ways to at least mitigate it so
you can't experience some of that, And we probably haven't
done it as much as we'd like, and it's something

(23:57):
we can make a higher priority. But I think the
more we can use like the credit card rewards points
to our to our benefit, the more like we are
be able to travel more.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
So also I'm gonna like take her to a cart
to eat a hot dog or a piece of pizza,
and she's gonna think it's awesome. We're gonna spend two
dollars on our meal and it's gonna be sit on
the curb and eat it, and it's gonna be super fun.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
You gotta do that in New York City, right, Yeah, Yeah,
don't necessarily need to do five start, Donnie. Last time
I was in New York Actually, right when I landed,
you were somewhere else, Joel, and uh with somebody else,
and you're at a brewery. Actually that's where we met up.
That sounds like, uh, But so I flew in later,
and the first thing I did, I was just like,
I gotta get a bite to eat.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Man.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Just being able to grab a slice of pizza and
just keep walking like yeah, walking to a subway stop.
That was I mean, I'm forty one years old and
that's still is awesome to me. But okay, So we
talked about investing all the time, Joel. I'm curious if
you and Emily as a couple, if y'all ever worry
about not having enough, because we're always talking about investing

(24:56):
for the future, and you know, we've done a pretty
dang good job. I mean your family has. Our family
has as well over the past decade, over the past
multiple decades, right, it's been like, yeah, you know, twenty
years of investing dollar cost averaging no matter what, day
in and day out. Do y'all think about that as
a couple. Yeah, I'm curious.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
It's funny. I feel like our fears in this realm
are really different. Mine are all more about catastrophe. What
if something happens and it's terrible, and you know I
don't it's.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Where of the will and the life insurance come in?

Speaker 3 (25:31):
Right, Yeah, like I can. I feel like my fears
aren't based in reality but just rather like blown out
anxiety and fear of worst case scenario, and yours are
probably more surrounding the details.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
And I think mine aren't based in reality either, but
I have them, like and they stem from from childhood,
you know they and I've it's something I've worked through
in a lot of ways over a long period of time,
but they're still there. And it's it's my parents not
having literally well not not had enough, but made poor
decisions and we saw like hard things happen because of

(26:04):
its Like Carget repossessed, right and after my dad lost
his job, and so I look back to those things
and it's like it makes me want to That's where
the security comes from when it comes to money, and
that's why I like money in my investment account and
in my savings account and not to spend it on

(26:26):
stuff because I don't want to experience that. But yeah,
it's one of those things that I think takes a
long time to work through. And those things from those
money scripts that you inherit from childhood, yep, can have
a lingering impact. They have had that on me. But
I'm also learning to work through them and try to
be more understanding of well, you really do only live once,

(26:49):
and so it's not like throw caution to the wain
and get crazy. But there are things worth spending money on,
especially in this era of our lives, and so what
are those things that are a priority. How do we
find the comfort level spending even if it means may
guess what I mean. You've talked recently on an episode
Matt the year you're not investing nearly as much or
maybe anything this year because you have other priorities. Yeah,

(27:12):
so I think when you have done smart things with
money over a long period of time, you have the
ability to make what seems to be how too many
listeners maybe to be like a crazy decision.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Sure. I so we've frontloaded the sacrifice. That's a term
that that we've used often on the show, to where
we're at the point where we can kind of coast
a little bit and we can start thinking through what
we want our lives to look like now. And I
know those are certainly conversations that Kate and I have had,
but Emily, So, I mean, I'm curious though, you said that,
like the catastrophes, like the worst case scenarios, you're not
worried about actually running out of money in retirement because

(27:46):
even the way you were talking about going into counseling
and practice, you're not really talking about the money like
you're thinking about it more from a fulfillment standpoint, from
a lifestyle, from a gifting Joel is is maybe one
of the things you said, So that's not on your
radar at all. It is just sort of like the
worst case scenarios of somebody dying, like if Joel were
to kick the bucket or something.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yes, okay, I guess she said that.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Actually might be best case scenarios what she.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Said, lattering and layering on those life starence policies.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah, no, and I think that's the benefit. I think.
I'm hesitant to answer because I think that's the benefit
of being having financial security. And I don't want to
come across like I take that for granted or I'm
nonchalant about that, because that is not true for a
lot of people. So I'm really grateful that I feel
like we make plenty to cover our basis and day
to day living is not stressful, and I just want

(28:39):
to acknowledge it, and that's not true for everyone. So
I don't think my fears surround that. And I also
don't think I really think big picture about money that often.
So thank god I'm married to Joel, because I would
just more. I don't know what we would do. I
just wouldn't necessarily think put that much mental energy into it.
So part of my fears lack of fear is just

(28:59):
not me time.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
I just don't think about it that you haven't thought about.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
It's definitely giving it time, right, And he comes in
and has the investment ideas and long term plans, and
I'm like, great, you know.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
You can always ask good questions. You always push back
in good ways when I have like an idea or
something I want to do or want to invest more
in one direction or something like that, like what about
buying another property or something like that, a rental property,
And you always ask really good questions, and sometimes you're like,
does that align with our goals right now in this season?

(29:31):
Or And I feel like those conversations help me because
I mean, I'm like full steam ahead, had an idea,
let's go, and you ask the right questions to kind
of slow me down properly. I feel like, so I
don't get in over my head too quickly.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Kate, what are your thoughts regarding scarcity, maybe the potential
for not quite having enough? It seems like something that
we've we've never had to think through and ask ourselves
some of these questions. But as we get older, we're
we were not young kids anymore, you know, we've like
I'm in my forties now, and you start thinking about
what work looks like, what life looks like, what slowly

(30:08):
transitioning to retirement and working less looks like. Do you
ever think about, oh, are we going to actually have
enough in our retirement accounts, will we be able to
have enough cash flow to be able to maintain our lifestyle.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
This is not something that I think about very often,
and when I do, I think my perspective on it
is more, I'm really grateful to be where we are
right now, But we've also been in a place where
we've been with so much less, We've had so much less,
and those times were difficult, and I think we learned
a lot during those times. And I know that if
we needed to get back to that point where we

(30:42):
were living on a lot less than we are currently
living on, that we could do that. I know if
I needed to go back to work, that I would
gladly and quickly do that if that's what our family needed.
And so I see it less as like a pool
that's going to run out, and more or as like
something we're keeping tabs on and if it gets low,

(31:04):
we need to make some changes.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, and we just will.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah. There's no ego, it's great tied up with the
idea in my mind, at least. I'm like I think
for a lot of folks, like the worst, like their
worst nightmare is like quitting work or stepping away or
taking a pay cut, because they want to spend more
time with their family or some aging parents whatever, and
then having to like step back into it because you're
almost like admitting a loss. It's like, oh, I thought
this was going to work out, but in fact I

(31:29):
was wrong. We were wrong. We have to kind of
quietly we're gonna come, Oh, I haven't seen it in
a while. Oh yeah, you know, went back to work.
For me, there's like I got zero ego when it
comes to what it takes in order to make things work.
Like well, I think that comes.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
From not finding I don't know. I've just never had
a career where I was finding an inordinate amount of
self worth in my job. So it just has never
held that weight over me. Then I think it holds
for people who are more invested in their career.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
The artist is just going to create no matter whether
or not there is financial but if it's tied, yeah,
it's going to come out in all these ways. And
so I love that a different piece of yourself is Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
Absolutely, I would love to if I need to go
back and work at like the library, I would love
to work at the library or my kids.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
School like that would be say nursery absolutely, or she
will tell you whatever you need to know, and your
plans will be well.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
Meet my favorite people all day every day. I mean,
I just don't feel stressed about if I have to
start working again, what would it be. It would just
it would just be what I needed to do until
we would just do it.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
The other reality is for people with a high savings
rate for an extended period of time, that fear link
may linger, and that might be part of the reason
you are funneling so much of your money towards investments.
But the truth is a lot of those folks are
going to have much more money than they need. Right
the millionaire next door, like, they have a hard time
spending the money that they've accrued, and so they find

(32:59):
that they have this like massive nest egg. They have
a paid off mortgage, and they're like, what do I
do with the six million dollars eight million dollars in
my four oh one k that that I was told
to do so to so diligently feed money into Do
you guys think about that, Like, what does it look
like twenty five years down the road and we have
far more more money than we needed? Because that that

(33:22):
is potentially a risk too it's a different kind of risk,
but it is one.

Speaker 4 (33:27):
I think we think about that some. I think that's
why we were willing to step into a renovation and
not invest for a couple of years, because like it's.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
The money, right, not just this year's We're probably not going.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
To be maybe not next year.

Speaker 4 (33:42):
It's crazy, but no, I mean, I just I'm not worried.
I don't at the end want there to be this
like huge pool, and if there is, I I would
love to start spending it now on like causes that
matter to me, giving generously. Like if we start to
see that getting too high, I would love to be
able to turn around and give that away.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, one of like big time philanthropists. But I think
we could easily make that.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
I would love to be And it sounds wonderful.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
I mean, like we talk about the benefits of giving
your money away, like y'all's family, our family. We give
away significant I mean compared to the rest of the
United States. I'll say, right, we give away significant portions
of our income, but nothing like having multiple millions of
dollars in the bag that you've got your mark for
charitable causes.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Six figure gifts sound kind of fun.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
I have so many things I would love to fund
for so many different causes. It would be so wonderful
to spend my time on that. So I hope that's
the problem. If I run into a problem like that,
that's when.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
It's a great, Yeah, great problem to have. I assume
you know feel similarly, Yeah in your head, nodding.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
When you're asking yes, when you're asking the question. I mean,
what's going through my mind is oh, well, then if
that was the case, we just didn't get creative enough
and how we gave away because that, there's so much
satisfaction in that. And then and I also think even
some of that is what I want to do with
my own career. I mean, I think quality, affordable mental

(35:09):
health care is rare. It can be very expensive, and
I love It's partly why I'm at the place i'm
at is because that's part of the mission, is really
quality therapy at a very affordable rate. I love that.
And if you know, you making more money means that
I can charge less. I want that to be the case.

(35:30):
Or what can I do in my career that can
be funded by some of what we have?

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, and we could if it was all about fattening
the nest egg. It'd be like, now I'll go get
you that job where you know you get in two
hundred bucks an hour as a marriage of family therapist
or something like that. But if if, the if you
can be more have more of a missional mindset with
your day to day job, and that means a reduced income,
that's okay, and that's actually awesome.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Sounds like you want to practice at the ALDI or
Costco equivalent, not like the Whole Foods version of mental health.
Is that accurate?

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Hilarious? I want Whole Foods quality exactly, but I want
it accessible to But.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
There's incredible value there. Yeah, and you need to put
your own card away, you bring your own water. Sorry,
I'm not going to have for you.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Well, we were just talking to emlu. I mean like that.
That is a big problem because a lot of mental
health practitioners don't take insurance, and the people who need
help the most oftentimes don't have the money to be
able to afford the services.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
And so.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
We need dozens, if not hundreds, of more clinics like
where you're working, so that people have that sort of access.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
And it's a tricky for both parties, right, both the
clinician and the client, because they also have to be
I mean, they're paying a lot of expenses you don't see,
so therapy feels really expensive. But also there's a big
chunk of that that's going to you know, insurance, all
kinds of things you're not aware of. So I think
a lot of clinicians would want to be more generous.
It's just sometimes a tough system. So I would love

(37:07):
to be able to be in that space.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
We got a few more questions. We want to get
to with our wives before we shut this thing down.
We'll get their beer reviews too, and that's gonna be
really fun.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
I already finished mine.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
I'll be ready.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, we'll get to that in just a second. All right,
we're back. I'm still talking with our wives for a
few more minutes here at the beach. Our kids are
downstairs watching a movie thathing's gonna end pretty soon.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
What are they watching them?

Speaker 1 (37:36):
By the way, No, there were arguments taking place about
what they were gonna watch. Sadly, Sing two was not
available for free. They knew we were going to pony up,
so they were trying trying to find something that was streaming.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Watch it done ex for us to because we cut
Disney Plus forever. I mean we slashed all of our streaming,
like literally everything. And they're so they've been so upset
about not having Disney because they have they about it.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
Yeah, oh yeah, they'll like asked to go to someone
else's house to watch there, especially because they haven't been.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
You gave them the choice between having Disney Plus back
or shaving your mustache. Which one will they pick?

Speaker 2 (38:15):
They have been petitioning for both. Our second daughter has
been the most vocal on both fronts. Actually, she really
likes saying things her way.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah apparently. Okay, So question here. We've been talking about
lots of things. Money's at the core of a lot
of those things. But money influences our lives, how we live,
and how he interacts with the world around us, the
things we get to partake in. But do you guys
ever get tired of talking about money? This is episode
what eight fifty seven. I think. So, I don't know

(38:46):
if Matt and I get tired of talking about money,
But what about you, lady?

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Are you talking about you and me talking about money?
You're talking about ours? Are they like the daily conversations
enough already. We get it to your job, but leave it,
leave it at the office.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
I think probably both of us would have said, we
get tired of it. But then when you guys started
the podcast, you just talk to each other, so honestly,
we talk about money so much less now that you
talk to each other about money so much.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
That's actually true.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
I hadn't thought about that.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yeah, totally agree. I feel like we're gonna energy with
each other.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
I'm glad you'll found each other. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, but I do like talking about money. I like
talking about money sometimes differently because I think money reveals
so much about what someone's thinking and feeling and what
their values are.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
So you care about what's underneath the way, not the
actual money conversation.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yes, yes, and I think those are endlessly fascinating. But
the details I don't care about as much. And that's
why I'm thankful you guys have each other.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
So I'm with you, Like, there's a certain part of
me that doesn't like I'm into the details, but I
also don't want that to be the focal point of
Kate and I's relationship, like our monthly check ins or
our every couple weeks kind of check ins when it
comes to the budget and where we are when it
comes to different categories. Those aren't conversations. I literally just
send her a screenshot of our budget so she can

(39:59):
see how much money we have left in different categories.
It's not it's literally something we don't talk about because
we don't necessarily enjoy having those conversations as opposed to
talking about the things that matter more that are sort
of blow the service, like.

Speaker 4 (40:11):
What you yeah, yeah, you goals and oh yeah, yeah
yeah right right. You know.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
I think sometimes it's really funny. There will be some
kind of big money decision that I know is a
little bit stressful. It's hard to say yes too, and
some of that money had to float away, and then
like the next conversation you and I have, it will
come out like I'll hear you know, You'll you'll be
like we don't need to use that, put that back
or you know, or whatnot, and I'll have to double
back and be like, are you still feeling this the

(40:37):
weight of that money conversation that we just had, And oftentimes.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
It is, yeah, it's this emotional thing that happens to me.
Sometimes it's like subconscious, it's it's like below and Emily
has is great at asking the question, so just have
to do with that thing actually, and I'm like, oh, yeah,
they are kind of connected. I didn't realize, yeah, that.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Your control is going to come out on something else, right,
because you had a similar to that control to the money,
and so then you're going to squeeze something else. And
it's always so interesting to me when I see that
pop up and they're always side by side, And.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
That's what's fascinating about money, because yeah, it reveals something
that's going on in your heart and in your brain,
and so it's it is less about the pactor roth
maneuver or you.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Know those things.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Those are things we talk about on the show, and
they are questions that people have, and people want to
minimize the tax that they pay right and they want
to be diversified with low costs at a low cost.
But those are things worth talking about. They're really important
to know. But then there are the other parts. I
agree that the further we get along into this, Matt,

(41:38):
it's that's the most Those are the most fascinating conversations
we get to have with other people, or the most
fascinating listener questions are the emotional psychological ones that have
to deal with money.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
They're less mechanical, and I mean some of it makes
me think about my history previous career job as a photographer,
and I never cared about the gear, like so literally
like the like actual equipment, And it makes me think
about that, right, Like, You've got some folks and they
love talking about the gear. They're so they're so into
megapixels and you know, like all this dumb stuff and

(42:11):
I'm like, okay, well does it allow you to take
a beautiful image? And it's important to know how to
handle your gear and how to work it and how
to maintain it. You need to know all of those things.
But when that becomes like the obsession, that's it's such
a turn off because it's just like do you care
about the images that you're creating or do you just
care more about having all the toys and the gadgets.
It's easy to lose sight, which is why, Yeah, we

(42:32):
talk about it when we talk with couples or are
answering listener questions. It's just like, hey, what are your
shared goals like? Because that is what's going to get
you to the point where y'all are going to be
able to get on the same page where you're going
to be able to work as a team together moving forward,
not pulling in opposite directions.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
All right, we've got a question for you ladies. So
we've talked about increasing spending on our kids these days, camps,
stuff like that. What are your thoughts about investing for
our kids' future? Has that grown in importance? Is that
still something that we don't care much about? Like, how
do how do you think about setting them up for

(43:08):
future financial success?

Speaker 2 (43:10):
So?

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Yes, I think I have probably thought somewhat differently. My
mind has shifted as we have made more money and
providing for their college education has seemed like more feasible
versus you know, I've mentioned this before on the show
Growing Up with a single Parent. I paid for college

(43:31):
myself for the most part. I had a little help,
but for the most part. And I was like, Okay,
that's I feel comfortable having our kids do that as well.
I think that's actually great. They'll learn a lot of
life's blessings. But I don't know, now, when you're talking
about having more money and giving it away and investing,
you think, well, surely our children should benefit from that

(43:52):
generosity too, And we should save for their college funds
or I think of their weddings again. When our wedding, like,
we try to make it as frugal as possible, And
I would still want to do that with them too,
in a sense I don't want like a huge wedding,
but also, well, should I provide more cushion for them
because I can. I probably lean more in that direction

(44:13):
than I did even like a few years ago, because
it feels more like a possibility. But I don't know.
I have some qualms about it. Even as I say it,
I all loud right now, and of some missed emotions.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
It's a fine line, right because the more money that
they have access to that at a younger age, you're
also you want them to have a sense of a
work ethic and you want to kind of push off
any sort of sense of entitlement. And you couldn't have
had a sense of entitlement right essentially because you had

(44:42):
to go out and do it for yourself. And how
do you allow your kids? I feel like this is
the biggest conundrum right now. How do you allow your
kids access to some things that are going to beneficial
for them without allowing them to adopt some sort of
entitled belief about their lives.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Yeah, it's a great question. I feel that because truly,
hardship and strife and having to work for it are
so good for kids. I mean, that's what's going to
build confidence and character and ability, and you can provide
a different path for them. But how much should you.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Hm, you guys wrestling with that?

Speaker 4 (45:17):
We haven't, like, we haven't directly talked about it that much.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
I think.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
I mean, we are saving for college.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
I think being part of.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
Our money conversations now is just helping them see and
understand what it looks like to work hard and to
make money and then to make decisions with that money.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
So, just as is age appropriate.

Speaker 4 (45:39):
We will include them in understanding kind of what we do.
And so hopefully no matter where they end up with
whatever amount of money, they have principles that they've learned
watching us and working with us as they grew up,
that they can that they can take forward with whatever
they have.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Yeah, I think there's a difference between investing money for
them for their future, like the whole generational wealthing, which
the older I get, the more I push back on
and it makes me think about the first time I
think the shack Shaquille O'Neil talking about.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
He's been a mentor of yours for a long time.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
He has we go way back there in Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
He even gives you his hand me down shoes.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
But he has said publicly that, oh, my kids are
they're not going to get any of my money. They're
gonna have to go and figure it out for themselves.
And I think the first time I heard that, I'm
ever thinking, dang, dude, like that's that's really harsh. But
if your kids know that they're going to inherit millions
of dollars, they're not going to be able to reach
their full potential. They're not going to have that healthy
stress of getting out there learning how to live on less.

(46:41):
So like sort of like what you're saying, kay, Like
we're not worried about running out or having less later
in life because we know what it's like to cut
back and to live more frugally. And yeah, we're not
hoping that that happens, but it's a skill that we
have in our tool belt, and those are skills and
tools that I think our kids may not have. When
you are setting aside large sums of money. I think college.

(47:04):
I think even Emily, you talking about weddings, that's different
as well, because it's more like an experience. It's something
that you engage my choice, yeah, and something that you
do together. And so I setting some money aside for
that doesn't seem quite as enabling, I guess. But man,
the more I think about it, the more I'm like,
I want you to kind of figure out how to

(47:25):
get out there, how to build something, how to be creative,
how to solve a problem out in the world. That
is where the world is then going to reward you
with value. And that's something that I think you really
do lose when in the back of your mind you
know that, well, I'll be fine at some point. Anyway,
Mom and Dad had money.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Here's a fallback plan. Yeah, you don't want to communicate that.
We certainly don't want to communicate that, even though I
think there are things that because yeah, I think our
kids have access to more than what I had access to,
more than what you had access to, Emily, and we're
glad for some of that. But then it's also you
you want them to have. You want to build something

(48:04):
that's based on their abilities and their desire and not
just be handed something for sure, and I think there's
just a lot more joy in that too, for them
to get to work for the things that they want
to accomplish in life.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think like the not I
don't want to say it's like point of life, but
the ability to know yourself is like one of the
chief ends of our ability to find satisfaction and fulfillment
and happiness in life. And you do that, the process
matters so much, just not just arriving at a certain
point and having a ton of money and being able
to do whatever it is that I want to do.
Like that entire process is you figuring out what it

(48:39):
is that lights you up, what it is that makes
you excited. You learn more about yourself, you learn more
about potential spouse or your family, and these are all
stories that are part of your family, right, Like it's
a part of your family culture, and it's just, oh,
this is just how we do life. This is what's
important to us, this is what's not important to us.
All the things that we're not paying attention to. You can't.

(49:00):
It's hard to arrive at those things without there being
some sort of healthy struggle.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
I think, all right, question.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Oh, I mean, I was just going to comment on
this because I think it's it's so important. I think
Kate said it so well that I think you're instilling
it in your kids in so many ways. I think
you guys do that really well as parents. Just like
the ability to own who you are and own yourself
and think through your decisions and go with it, you know,
and figure it out. And I think that's so important.

(49:28):
Whether you have a lot of money, are a little
bit of money, yes.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Not just the overt direct conversations that you're having about money.
Is the way you approach others, This is the way
you approach somebody in need. Is the way you approach
your work that you're performing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's
life lessons and.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Everything that's so great. I think just in my own parenting,
I'm trying to grow in that because I am a
fixer and a doer and I again would probably be
the first out of the four of us to pay
for convenience and to make it easy for everyone in
and just really trying to lean into the value of
letting my kids struggle to find out who they are,

(50:06):
because it really is where confidence is going to come
and to not overparent them and not try to overconvenient them.
And that's hard. That's a lesson for me, And I
think partly why I learned it is I had to
out of hardship, and I think we're not in the
same position where our kids have to but I want
to still instill that in them.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah, I think sometimes a lack of resources breeds creativity, right. Yeah, So,
and we see that with our kids all the time.
Is like you don't have some cool toy, and by
the way, those often the new toy doesn't get played
with as much do you think it's going to And
anybody who has kids has found them playing with cardboard
boxes or pots and pans or whatever random thing you

(50:48):
didn't intend for them to use as a toy they
use as a toy. Or there's certain mainstays, like they're
using the bike all the time, right or there are
a few toys maybe that they play with frequently. But
it is interesting to see like that there are a
lot of things that you that you acquire over the
years never really get used. And I think that I
think there is true, like we should it's it's probably

(51:10):
good to be more thoughtful about what we bring it
in general, just because I think we value we end
up valuing the fewer things more than the many much
of the time.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Totally. All right, So we're talking about kids, what about parents?
We're kind of quickly becoming the Sandwich generation where we've
got aging parents while also trying to launch our kids
out into the world. Say something y'all talked about. I
know y'all talked about it because we're best friends with y'all,
But is that something that y'all have directly talked about
and what that might look like in the coming years.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
For sure, I think a chunk of our future financial
decisions will be around how we take care of older
parents and do they live with us? Do they not
live with us? Do we renovate for them? Do we
look for something different? Do we build a house tiny
house in our backyard? Yeah, it's on top of mine.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
It's ongoing and it continues. It filters into almost every
conversation we have. Okay, well, would that with this potential move,
what it canstrain us from being able to do this
for our parents if we needed to, because they're not
of the age where they need that yet. But I've
seen my parents have to do that with my mom's mom,

(52:23):
my grandma, and I want to be prepared for that,
and that could impact a whole lot of things, including
living situation, which money is directly impacted by that.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
It's like the most expensive decision, right housing.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yeah, what about you guys.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
Oh, we have not really talked about it directly with
either one of our parents, So it's.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Something we've talked about.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
We have taken it into account we are renovating our house.
We have taken it into account with the way that
we are renovating our house for sure.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
But it's yes, that's some I mean, we haven't talked
directly with them, so we probably won't talk about it
here on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
So correct just behind their back, which honestly is kind
of how we because they're of the age where they
don't want that to be part of our consideration yet,
So I don't want to have that conversation directly with them.
Maybe in like five years time.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
We've talked about it some in different places, in different
ways with different family members. I partly am excited about it.
I like the idea of generational, multi generational, multi generational, Yes,
I love it. I grew up with my great grandmother
living with us for a while. Those are some of
my best memories. She loved to write and I would
just sit at her feet, but she would just write
it and then hand me like the page of whatever

(53:30):
story to read next, and how she would cook breakfast
for me, and it was fantastic. And so I do
actually look forward to the multigenerational living at some point
when I know it makes it easier when the living
circumstances are smooth for everybody. Yeah, And so I think
that's why I think about it when we talk about
moving or do we renovate, because I want it to
be a home run, because then it's so enjoyable when

(53:52):
it can be a home run and you can have
your spaces to retreat to, and then you can have
your spaces to come together.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
And that's what's so hard is that it's all for
the future. It's like, well, does it make sense to
do that now, maybe even five ten years, but then
what does life look like in five or ten years,
because that's that's a ways off. That's where I think
we have started. I'm finding a way to talk about
this without talking about it directly here. But what we've
realized is that we're a little bit away from having

(54:17):
to make that some of those bigger calls, and so
what we need to do is live life in the
here and now, which for me, in the here now
also involves the next several years, right, like medium term
goals essentially, because I don't see that necessarily being on
our horizon in the near term. So I don't know.
That's how I thought about it. At least I like the.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
Term medium term goal because you're still right, that's actually
the tricky spot.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Like a short term goals are easy because you're going
to do it long term, yet long term is kind
of an autopilot.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Yeah, the medium term goals, that's where it gets fish. Sure, fishing,
I'm gonna remember that. You said. That's because that is
a tricky spot.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Yeah, timing is difficult. So anything else you want to
talk about now, Le's get back to the beer, all right.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
The stegele Rattler is he tron Lemon, Emily, your thoughts
on this beer?

Speaker 3 (55:01):
Delicious? This is like my second one today, I think,
so I approve. I do like the grapefruit one is
my favorite, even over the lemon grapefruit.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
It's a little bit better. And that's well that's me.
I don't. I'm not a huge lemon fan myself. So
K was making a whiskey sour last night. Involves a
lot of lemon. Not my jam. You like it, though, Yeah,
I like it.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
I like this beer too.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
It would just to me this tastes like vacation because
the only time we have it, it's on vacation with y'all. Yeah,
it just is like, oh, yeah, we're at the beach.
They're friends.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Now. It's like having a spiced ham over the holidays. Yeah,
this is when you eat this. You don't eat this
in the middle like the fourth of July. I know,
this is a Christmas time thing.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
The can is just so classic. And the lemon, you're
I mean, it's not my lemon, it's not my favorite.
But I really like this beer. And it's got this
bright almost like myer lemon vibe coming through it's and
so I dig this beer because it's again, it's like
a it's like half juice half beer, which I like.

(56:02):
I don't know, I like juice and I like beers.
I think that so great.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
I just as an adult, feel like I can't drink
juice really, but juice is fantastic.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
It feels like it's for kids, but this is like
the adult version.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
It's wonderful.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
It's sweet and fruity but awesome. I'm glad we got
to enjoy this one today. Glad you ladies were willing
to sit down with us and talk about money yet
again here on the podcast. So until next time. I
think we often say this together now simultaneously. All right,

(56:44):
hold on, all right, So the big girls wanted to
jump on because I just came wandering up here. First
time you want to say, hey, Hello, what up?

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Salma?

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Hi?

Speaker 2 (56:53):
All r Joey got a money question for Okay, So
how do you feel about investing? Saving retirements? Much? Actually,
don't listen to this Earlier we're talking about generational wealth.
Heavy tune that part out.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Are you a vanguard or for delity?

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Gal?

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Uh no? Some What are you currently saving up for?

Speaker 4 (57:10):
For my birthday?

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Got a trip to New York?

Speaker 3 (57:12):
So I'm saving up for.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Souvenirs in New York. We actually talked about that on
this podcast episode. So that's great. I can't see wait
to see what you bring.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Back, girl, Heavy, I'm really excited. Hevy, what about you?
What are you saving? Saving up for these days. Not
a lot, but I'll say that I'm saving up for
a volleyball nut that can go over our pool, if
and when we get one.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
After the renovation.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
If and when, yeah, stick with when.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Just just force your dad's hand on that