November 1, 2024 • 35 mins
Time for a Friday Flight- our little sampling of the week’s financial news and what it means for your personal finances. There are a lot of headlines out there, but we boil them down to specific takeaways that will allow you to kick off the weekend informed and help you to get ahead with your money. In this episode we explain some relevant and helpful stories like: Costco/Halloween, paltry market predictions, generational investing, political odds markets, working for wealth, home equity temptations, hottest items on wedding registries, underpowered homeowner policies, $20k family auto insurance, Black Friday unfurled, and Amazon vs Walmart.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.
Today we're talking about paltry predictions, working for wealth and
Black Friday unfurled. That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
This is our Friday flight where we're going to get
to the most pressing stories that we've come across this
week and how they pertain to your finances. And you're
mentioning Black Friday Angel visions of like the nineties and
the two thousands, whe folks whould line up at the
store like you did back in the day to get
the flat screen. People don't do that anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I don't do that, at least I'm glad they don't.
Like I just don't go into stores hardly that often.
But where I do go is Costco. Did you see
that Costco's unveiling the little door scanner thing?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Or actually I went last week and they had them
set up. You have like scan your Costco ID on
your way in.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's so dumb, because I'm sorry, I take it back Costco.
The lady in front of me her car because they
still have somebody there that's like attending to the machine
or whatever. And the lady in front of me her card,
it said that her membership was invalid or something like that,
and the lady was like, no, it's not. And then
the other lady was like, oh you can. You've been
coming and you've paid and had no problem registering or
(01:25):
uh checking out. She's like no, say okay, come on in.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
They're still figuring out the kings, right, I guess, so
that should be generous there. So I think what Costco's
trying to do here, tell me if you think I'm wrong.
I think what they're trying to get that Netflix bump,
the cracking down on passwords, and Costco's trying to crack
down on membership sharing. And so they're thinking that they're
going to see a meaningful bump in in people signing.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Up for memberships here because just give somebody else your card.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
No, because now it shows up on the screen what
your picture looks like when you That's the whole point.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So they can say I didn't know why they were
doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I'm sorry, sir, this doesn't like you. This is somebody
else's membership. Well that's that's why your Costco card has
your picture on it, right, because you're supposed to show
him anyway. So it's just a bigger picture the door
when you walk to They're not always checking that that closely,
but they will be now with the scanner. So this
is like their technological ability to now say, oh, Matt's
(02:15):
coming in, that's actually Matt versus Matt's neighbor who he
lent to his membership card. Two.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh, I see, yeah, I'm curious to see if that works.
I will say, based on our conversation with Chris Hutchins recently,
can you hold up your your Apple pay your your
phone to be let in as well? Because he was
talking about how he puts his Costco card on his
phone on his Apple Pay, which makes sense that you
can do the Apple.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Pay, right. I thought he put it on his the
Costco app. There's a Costco app? Oh is that? What
are you saying?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Nothing, You're saying Apple pay.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
No, you can put your Costco credit card on Apple pay,
but you can't put your membership on Apple pany. I
don't think. Oh.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I was thinking, okay, double click to pay slash double
click to also get in the store.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, that's what I want to be able to do.
I mean, I don't have to open up a separate app. Well, sorry,
Bud doesn't revolve around me, and my wish is no. Okay.
Well but oh by the way, Calamen was yesterday and
your your thing with your kiddo's is you pay them
to not eat candy, right, uh huh okay.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So that last year was the first year that we've
ever implemented that and it was crazy successful.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And who ends up eating this candy? Well? I do
like over the we still had you know what I
pay you to? You know what we did earlier this
week we literally threw out all of our.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Old candy because it's just I mean, it's stuff that's
old and you know, like you've had a Snickers bar
or something that's kind of been old and it sits there,
it gets all mixed in with the fruit flavors and
then it tastes all messed up.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I hate that. And so in some of that stuff,
I don't know how old that is. And so the
ability just to completely hit reset. Before the Halloween, the
new Halloween stash came rolling in, but the kids have
not yet fully sorted out all of the candy and
and how much they want to cash in essentially, But.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, no, I think it's a good plan and I
think for everyone else, though, who's says, Oh man, my
kids got so much candy. I wish they wouldn't need
all of it. Well, maybe you can incentivize them with money.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
From a house standpoint part with someone. I don't want
them eating all that.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Oh yeah, no, it's it can be overload, man. I
mean I remember the first couple of days after trigger
treating when I was a kid, and it was just
like gorge Fest.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
And I swear too, like in years past, this is
always when the sickness gets kicked off. Oh yeah, it's
right after Halloween, and it's it's it's not necessarily that
sugar is so bad for you, it's the fact that
that keeps you from the other healthier things that you
need to be.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You're filling up all your calories on crap. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, are y'all going to implement something similar.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
The reason for the holiday? I don't know. I like
what you're doing, and I might. I think I'll at
least give them the option because that they see your
kids giving up a lot of their candy for money,
and I think they're like, I don't know if I
do the same thing, but I might give them a
least the option.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
It's hard initially because their eyes are wide and it's
you know, it's a ton of fun. But after a
while they start realizing that, actually, maybe I will take.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
The buy out. Yeah, ten cents apiece.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Ten cents apiece, and then for the for the bigger ones,
a quarter. Okay, So I'm willing to pay out even
more for the big ones here because some of the neighbors.
You know, you always hear about the nigh Oh, you
got to go to the neighborhood, because they hand out
the king size. But anything that's like, you know, like
the full size, anything bigger than the fun size, I'm
willing to pay a quarter for.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Makes sense? Yeah, all right it let's get to the
Friday flight, Matt, all the stories we found interesting this week.
Let's kick it off by talking about an investing prediction.
They're the good folks over Colden Sacks. I don't really
know anyone there, never talked to anyone at Golden Sex. Folks.
I can't imagine all of them are good. Some of them.
Maybe you're so generous, I know. Well, they just announced
(05:33):
that future market returns are likely to be muted over
the coming decade, basically saying Hey, we foresee the S
and P five hundred returning like three percent annualized over
the coming ten years, So every single year three percent returns.
That's basically one percent after inflation, which is pretty crummy.
So yeah, not if you hear that and you take
(05:54):
it to heart, you're like, that's not good. I would
hope my stock portfolio would do better than that. And
it's worse than any other prediction that you or I
have seen out there on the internets, which is interesting.
We talked about kind of predictions regularly on the show
because a lot of other market soothsayers or want to
be sooth sayers, they've been editing their market predictions for
this year upward, which is always amazing. It's like, well,
(06:16):
I predicted something at the beginning of the year, but
it's October and the market's been crushing. Can I revise
that thing now? Right? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So isn't that called cheating? You're not allowed to do that, right.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So, at the beginning of the year, the average market
predictor was saying, I foresee a two percent return, something
very tepid over the coming year, and it's been much
much higher than that. So basically this prediction is saying
to keep your expectations low for longer term market returns,
And I guess it begs the question what should we
do with these sorts of prognostications, And I think you
(06:47):
and I we always come down on the side of
not much. You know, we have seen actually abnormally great
returns recently. This year has been amazing. Last year was
great in the stock market. But we got to take
the good years with the bad ones. It is. I
think there is certainly a possibility that Golden Sacks could
be spot on with this, where we could see a
decade that returns weren't so great after a decade of
(07:08):
fantastic returns. The truth is, we just don't know. And
it's just also important to note that the stock market,
it's not like it's completely detached from reality. I think
valuations are high, but our economy is doing far better
than other wealthy nations right now, so it's not like
stock market. Why is it so high? Like we can
there's at least a method to the madness. There's a
reason for it happening totally.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, And I will say, historically a return of three
percent or less for the decade that happens less than
ten percent of the time, so that's not very normal.
Could it happen again, yes, But these predictions they should
not influence the actions that you take today if you're
in the wealth building phase of your life. Again, every
single prediction about what the SMP would do this year
(07:49):
was way off. Predictions were that we'd see something like
a two percent increase in the SMP. But we're somewhere
around twenty percent right now. If you zoom out just
a little bit more and look at the past twelve months,
we're at thirty seven percent. Wow, thirty seven Like that's insane.
It's close to like four years worth of growth right there,
which I think just in the past twelve months.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
He sat reversion of the mean With that Goldmen Sacks
is counting on or at least betting on.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I don't know though. I mean, like we are like
you and I were not permables, right like, we don't
think that we're are that we are on this endless
upward rise.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
There are some.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Signs that US stocks, in particular, that they might be overvalued.
But trying to shift to savings because you think that
you're going to make more over there over the next
ten years. That sounds like a really bad choice. Yeah,
if you ask me, especially if you have decades to invest,
keep bellar cost averaging into the market. But I mean
if I was saving for as short to medium term
(08:41):
goal of let's say four to five years, guess what,
I'm still going to stick that market, that money into
the market if it was me personally, But especially if
we're talking about retirement savings, You're gonna be just fine,
stay diversified and continue to invest in the market.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, that's what we say here. Now, while we're talking
about investing, there was some interesting data recently that came
out about how different generations have different investing styles, and
we talked about what with Gene Twangy about intergenerational differences
in how we view money. That was kind of a
fun conversation. But those differences have largely been defined by
(09:15):
cultural markers and by macroeconomic events, specifically the most dramatic ones.
Gen Z for instance, Right, they've seen incredible stock gains
since they started investing, which means they're kind of keen
on investing. Hey, this is a good game to play
because it's helping me build my wealth. That's the good part.
I don't know, maybe It makes me think about millennials too,
(09:35):
in the Great Recession, graduating into a poor economic climate.
Maybe they're a little more conservative, and so gen Z,
as it turns out, is taking more of a gambling
mentality into how they invest. Josh Brown actually recently said
that very similar thing when he came on the show.
And essentially they're the robin Hood generation, right, and they
(09:57):
don't mind taking risky bets on s angle stocks and
crypto coins, NFTs anywhere, remember those things. Nobody talks about
NFTs anymore, Matt. I think they've largely gone by the wayside,
and a lot of do people care good written crypto
punk or whatever that all that stuff people.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Board apes man like it wasn't that long ago, but
it seems like forever.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It feel like.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
On one hand, it's like, oh, we were talking about that,
not all that long ago. I can I still remember
the stories, Yeah, as we talked about it, But it
also seems like a lifetime ago because of how much
has changed when it comes to what folks are allocating
their funds towards.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Literally haven't heard those three letters put together in a
long time. Nobody seems to care, and I'm sure that
those things are worth a whole lot less, if not
completely worthless. But all of us have a bias because
of how we grew up, what we were taught about money,
what we've experienced, and then kind of what we've experienced
overall culturally and economically. But I think this is just
(10:54):
for us. Matt reading this, it makes me think that
people just need to look at a longer historical timeline
to be your guide when it comes to how you
invest one hundred percent, not just hey, what's happened over
the past year, two years, five years. If you're one
of those people who is risk averse, the truth is
taking no risk comes with its own risks as well,
namely inflation. Taking too much risk, on the other hand,
(11:16):
comes with the potential for big losses. So I guess slow,
steady risk appropriate. That would be our advice. That's psych
typically our advice on the show. But I see these
different generations kind of taking different tacks, and it's like,
I don't know, maybe more balanced view, balanced response from millennials,
agen Z and Uchen extras and boomers two is what's
called for.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Makes a ton of sense that we need to look
outside of our own personal experiences, even let's go back
even to another generation. Makes me think of the Silent
generation or the Greatest Generation. I don't know which one,
whatever it is that folks call it, but like the
hesitancy to invest in the market because of the Great Depression,
sticking money under your mattress as opposed to trusting in
actual financial institutions. But while we're on this note of investing,
(12:01):
morning Star they recently wrote a piece about trading platforms
that are increasingly incentivizing risk. And we're talking about gamification
here because these game like elements, they can be great
for incentivizing saving, but I think they can lead to
really poor behavior on the investing side, leading to more
frequent trading, leading to speculative bets. And again, let's revisit
(12:23):
a brokerage that's in the spotlight, Robin Hood. They're now
allowing folks to bet on the election on their platform.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I hate this.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We did an episode many years ago at this point
about how to level up your money game by using gamification,
but I just hate that it's such a slippery slope.
We're seeing more platforms, is it. Caulshy and Predicta is one,
But there are these new gambling market platforms that are
It's I don't like it for multiple reasons, obviously the
(12:51):
fact that folks are losing money, but I think a
lot of individuals see this as their sort of foray
into in this case politics, Right, it's like, well, I
don't know money where my mouth is. Well, yeah, But
the thing is it's less of a focus on policy,
and it's more of a focus on sort of the
pop cultural elements of it by just like, oh, let
me throw some money on that where the wind's blowing
(13:11):
right now. Yeah, I guess that's the part of it
that I hate. You're if you are sort of betting
in this way. I think people have a belief that
they are sort of being involved with politics, but in essence,
it's they're not at all. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, our attention is being has been hacked by the
social media apps, and now our investing habits have been
hacked in some ways by at least certain companies trying
to get us to participate more in risk of your behavior.
So you're right, I think gamification can work in a
positive ways. There's some apps out there, thinking of like
Cube Money, Matt, that's one of those kind of budgeting,
(13:47):
banking apps that can help you use the envelope system
in a digital way. That's a great way to gamify
your finances. And then there are negative ways in which
we're being preyed on in the gamification sphere, such as
gambling on election or trading becoming a more frequent trader.
That is what's scary. So use the good ways, avoid
the bad ones to the best of your ability. Now,
(14:10):
let's talk about work for a second. At the risk
of sounding reductive, people make more money when they work
longer hours. No way. Yeah, it doesn't sound like rocket science,
does it. But Tyler Collen, who is like one of
my favorite economists, his.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Podcast is a very smart individual.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, great podcast. He wrote about this in Marginal Revolution. Yes,
his blog what's his name of his actual podcast Conversations
with Tyler Oh, that's right. Yeah, so both are good.
But he wrote about this in Bloomberg and it feels
like one of those things like does this need to
be said that if you work more you make more money? Well,
I don't know. The way he explains that I think
is helpful. He highlighted this recent study that economists did,
(14:49):
and the study found that a twenty percent variance in
lifetime earnings can be explained by a difference in the
number of hours that you work. Essentially, if you work
thirty five hours a week, your friend works forty five
hours a week over time, on average, they are going
to make more and compound their wealth more quickly than
you will. And as Tyler wrote in the piece, matt
(15:09):
He wrote, the decision to work harder operates on at
least two levels. First, you put in more total time,
which leads to higher lifetime earnings. Second, you invest more
in your human capital, which makes you more productive. Again,
this isn't something that's shocking, or wasn't I think understood
by many kind of intuitively. But it's interesting to see
(15:30):
some data attached to this common sense economic reality. And
that doesn't mean that I think everyone should go out
there and works seventy hours a week. Part of the
reason investing makes so much sense is because it can
allow you to work less. Right, so letting your money
work harder for you than you're working for yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I feel like, so everyone's or not everyone, but a
lot of folks have heard of like the horseshoe theory.
I feel like this is a perfect illustration because there
are a lot of folks that are like, yeah, no, duh.
But then you get folks who are educated and they
start doing research and they start picking it apart and
they're like, well, actually, there's all these other factors that
play into it. There's don't forget about policy, don't think
about the systemic issues that we have when it comes
(16:09):
to working and earning more. But yeah, in this case, Tyler,
he's like digging into the data even more, and with
his research and the numbers and the data is able
to point out the fact that like, oh no, in
this case, our intuition is actually is actually correct.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, it makes me I think of Kobe Bryant back
in the day. He would talk about how I think
he used to work out three times a day, and
he's essentially saying, I'm so far ahead of everybody else
because of all the hard work I've put in there.
There's some truth to that. Yeah, even if you start
working out four times a day, you will never catch
up to me, is what he was saying to like
the younger basketball players. And yeah, hard work isn't everything,
(16:41):
but it's amazing how how impactful can be on your
wealth building journey.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, to a certain extent, it's hard to be just
putting the reps in, but there is a limit to
trading your time for money, especially for lower income earners.
And it's also important to note that hustle culture, like
essentially that's what we're talking about here, it can just
lead to burnout. It's going to be to live that
that knows to the grindstone lifestyle for too long. And
despite the fairly clear line that's that you can draw
(17:07):
between the hours that you're going to work and the
income that you're gonna earn, it's also important to work smart,
not just hard, right, So it's not just about putting
more hours in, but to actually think about like work
on the job, like not working solely within the job,
Like by working on the job, you're saying, how can
I actually make this thing better? But then also to
prioritize your life, not just your bank account, not just
(17:29):
your net worth. Because I think there might be seasons
where you do work more to earn more, but there
are also going to be other seasons will work takes
more of a back seat. But more than anything, I
think the takeaway from me is just to think about
this from a consistency standpoint, because I think about the
kind of life that I want to lead, and I
think about someone who might be going one hundred and
ten percent right, and by going one hundred ten percent,
(17:51):
you're earning like ten percent more and that's nice, but
you also have like zero margin in your life. Other
aspects of your life are falling apart, and maybe you
end up I can work like twenty five years in
thirty years in right, as opposed to imagine if around
year twenty year, like I don't this is I've been
going pretty hard. What if I dialed it back a
little bit? This is such a great argument for coast
(18:11):
fire right, So for all the financial independence folks out there,
and to say instead of going like I was plugging
away at one hundred percent, I'm going to step it
back to ninety In a couple of years. Oh, I'm
want to step it back to eighty percent. Imagine kind
of like gradual stepping off the pedal. Yes, And imagine
if like thirty thirty five years in you say, you
know what I want to work like at fifty percent.
But because of that, because of all that additional time,
(18:34):
maybe you're able to work for another decade. Maybe you're
able to work for another twenty years, and think about
the added benefit not only to you, like cognitively from
a community standpoint, but also from a financial standpoint, Like
earning fifty percent for another twenty years put you much
further ahead than working an extra ten percent beyond that
one hundred percent for a shorter period of a.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Lot of percentage just throw around. It's you never do.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Math and percentages on a podcast, But I'm just saying
that the ability to work for a longer period of
time at a diminished intensity, I think it's going to
lead to a much happier life for a lot of
folks in a better financial position.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah. I think you're right as well. I think a
lot of people might read that and then be like,
oh cool, Tyler, so I should be working a lot more.
And I don't think that's what he's getting at. I
think he's just getting at an ultimate reality that work
is typically tied to income.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
And I like the individual empowerment part of the message
that he's relaying here.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, and the truth is, if you want to earn more,
oftentimes it will involve working more. But you and I
were also in favor of balance, and so it's nice
to know that, and it's nice to know that during
certain segments of your life you might prioritize that and
at other times you might back off of work a
little bit because, guess what, you have been frugal, You've
paid attention to your investing, to your finances, and you
(19:44):
don't need to work as hard as everybody else around
you is likely doing. But Matt, we're going to get
to more on this episode, including what newlyweds want for
as a wedding gift. It certainly seems like the concept
of a wedding registry is dying. We'll talk about that
more right after this.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
All right, Joe, we are back from the break. We've
got more to get to. It is now time for
the ludicrous headline.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Of the week. My favorite time, Yeah, is it literally
your favorite time? Like?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Our pick this week is from the New York Times
and the headline reads, homeowners tap into their rising home equity.
This sounds familiar, anel. It sounds like this is a
movie we've seen before and it doesn't end well.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, it's like the Second Joker, I Guess It, which
was apparently panned by all the by everyone, it was
a muscle.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, I didn't. I think I could have told you,
Like even just like in the initial the first production
meeting where they sat down and we're like, hey, this
is what we're thinking, right, I feel like I could
have saved them a whole lot of hearder.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
This headline is the equivalent of that.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
For everyone out there who owns a home, it's incredibly
exciting to see the value skyrocket, which directly impacts your
net worth. Maybe for you, it's like your favorite pastime
is hopping over to Zillo and checking out your estimate.
If you bought a home like four or five years
ago or the decade even before that, you've done incredibly
well for yourself. But what should you do with that
(21:10):
mountain of increased equity? Well, that's another matter. Balances on
helocks are rising quickly twenty percent over the past few years.
Home equity loans that have fixed rates are becoming more
popular this year as well. But once you take that
equity out and you spend it, well, you've now got
another recurring monthly bill in your life. It puts your
financial security at risk. And it is not that considering
(21:34):
a helock is never a good idea. It's just that
it rarely is for most folks. For the kind of
spending that most folks out there are being tempted into.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
And I'm getting literally like solicited to take out money
from my banker credit union because they're saying, look at
all this home you have that is put it to use?
Is what they want.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I think that's one hundred percent of the reason. The
fact that there are so many mortgage servicers out there
and they're texting us, they're sending us the email blasts saying, hey,
it's so easy, right board they want the business, yes,
because I mean that's the business that they're in, is
to try to get more customers taking money out of
their homes, out of this piggy bank. And it's the
fact too that like nobody's b I shouldn't say nobody,
(22:12):
but like if you have a retirement account, you probably
feel worse for like tip making a four to win
k loan or cashing out a retirement account. It feels
like a more egregious move because it's literally labeled like
this is your retirement account, but your house, Oh it's
a it's a gray area. Who knows what you could
use this for? All sorts of things. Yeah, I think
I think you're right. And the thing is, we don't
actually have stats. We don't really know why people are
tapping into their home equity. I would be super curious
(22:34):
to see some sort of study about the main reasons
why people choose to take money out of their home.
If you're taking out like a small amount in order
to perform a minor bathroom renovation or something like that,
and then you've got this plan to pay it off
in twelve months or less, then I think you and
I could sign off on that, Matt. We might say
more power to you. You're using the helock for what
it was made for. And guess what, You've got a
(22:57):
bunch of equity in your home. Cool, using a little
bit of it to improve your home. It's not the
worst thing in the world. But I think other folks
are seeing dollar signs when they look at their house
and they're taking money out because they can, and because
someone told them they could. Mortgage rates, well, they're not
following like a whole lot of people expected them to.
And the rate on the helock it's not guaranteed to drop.
(23:17):
I think a lot of people are saying, oh, cool,
we're in this era now where interest rates are going
to go down, But are they going to go down
as much as a lot of people have predicted.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Maybe, maybe not. And so we're still talking about paying
like nine percent on money you borrow against your home.
So in our estimation almost all the time, it's better
to hold off and save up, save up the cash.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, and you mentioned like doing a small bathroom renovation,
and I think a lot of folks might be thinking, oh,
but I can deduct the interest that I'm paying towards that.
But was it the last week that the IRS they
just released the new numbers for next year standard deduction's
gone up. Yeah, thirty thousand for married couples, fifteen thousand
for single filers.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
That's a really high bar.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
And so I think the fact that, like that's in
the back of a lot of people minds. But the
fact is, I think fewer and fewer folks are going
to be itemizing their taxes, itemizing their deductions as opposed
to taking the standard.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
But while I think a lot of people see that
and they say, oh, that's one more reason to take
money out of my home, and it's not because for
most people they don't qualify for that interestroduction.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It's a neot point. Well, while we're talking about houses,
guess what more folks want these days when they get married.
That's right, a house instead of a big wish list
of items that might go in their home. They would
rather have a down payment donation for the actual home
instead than not. Everyone's heard of the marriage website Slash magazine.
(24:37):
The Not found that the sheriff couples including a home
fund on their registries has increased sixty two percent since
twenty eighteen, which, personally, man, I think this is awesome
because cash it's easier to give the recipient. They can
do whatever they want with that money, whether it's to
put towards a down payment for a home or to
get something else.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That the old school actually one way of doing things right.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
The Asian way as well, Like you got the red envelopes. Yeah,
there's something about here. Why is it our culture that's
so weird about that? Well, it's our culture. I don't know, man, Yeah,
there's there's I'm all for it because it's incredibly practical.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But I think there are still going to be a
lot of other folks out there who are going to
feel that it's slightly uncouth to ask for cash donations
as or cash gifts versus an item something which is
not like there's a whole lot of thought that went
into it, right, Because if you make a registry, it's
like you weren't being thoughtful. You just bought this thing
for me instead. Is anhird roundabout thing that we do here.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
The only reason I'm buying something I know you want
is because you told me you wanted it. So if
you tell me that you want cash for the down
payment for the house, cool, I mean, yeah, it saves
me some time, some hassle, and it also allows me
to give you the thing you actually really truly want.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Did you normally get a whole lot of gifts when
y'all got married?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Oh? Yeah, because we did the old school way with the.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Registry, remember spending all that time going back to bed
bath and beyond making the returns and actually getting the things.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That you needed or wanted, because we didn't want to
be like ungrateful weirdos who asked their cash. And so
I'm so glad that cultural element is changing because you
should be able to ask her that, and I would
like to give you that. Do you have any items
from that you received as wedding gifts that you still
use today or still have. Oh, for sure, like what
like my I can't think of lake crusette pot. For sure,
that's one of the best things. I'm sure there are
(26:15):
other things. I'm sure we have other pots and pans
and stuff like that, but maybe we have a cast
these great steak knives that are like French steak knives
that came from I want to say, Creighton Barrel and
they're great, very cool.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
The one thing I can think of that we registered
for it. I was like, I can't believe we're registering
for like one hundred and fifty dollars trash can, but
we did, and so one got.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It for us.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
We literally use it every day. Nice simple human you know,
like the stainless.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Stale foot operated.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'm like, is this thing ever going to break? I
love it, But I don't think there is many things.
There are many things out there that they make us
solidly as they made that trash can. I can't wait
to have my kids come home, like whenever they're married
or something. We can to be like, is this the
same trash can when we were kids? Indeed children, it
is I.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Love that that remind you of your wedding day trash
can in your kitchen.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I just remember registering for it and being like, I
can't believe, like because you can buy yourself practical Matt,
a ten dollars rubber made trash can. But we're like,
you know what, I don't want to see that garbage anymore.
I'm a I'm about to be a married man. I'm
not living that bachelor.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Your own adult. Don't make me look at the trash.
I get what I want. Yeah, exactly, all right, let's
keep talking about real estate. Real estate data firm core
Logic says that most homeowners don't have enough homeowners insurance,
and if there's anything we've learned Matt from the devastating
storms in the Southeast recently in some of our favorite
towns close by, is to check your insurance policy to
(27:35):
make sure you have enough coverage, and to make sure
that you have the right kind of coverage too. The
cost of building materials and labor have risen significantly, which
means now is a great time to double check your coverage.
Make sure you have what's known as replacement cost coverage,
which could be actually more than the actual value of
your home, because the cost to rebuild your home could
(27:56):
be more than what Zillo you mentioned. This es meam,
that could be more than what the z estimate is right.
Increasing your coverage could raise your premiums. Yes, it could
cost more to have that insurance now, but it's crucial
to budget for that because the whole point of insurance
is to be covered in case something catastrophic happens, and
so you want to make sure you actually have enough coverage.
Trying to get the absolute lowest price could be cheap,
(28:19):
not frugal, that's right.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
So on the flip side of the insurance discussion, Joe,
let's talk about car insurance teens. They are more reticent
to get their driver's license these days than in decades past. Personally,
that kind of bums me out that you know, less
risk taking that whole thing. But it actually might be
a good thing for the parents, at least from a
financial perspective. Friend of the show, Ron Lieber, he's been
(28:42):
writing in the Times regularly about how much it's costing
families to ensure their fleet of vehicles. Which there's your
first problem, right, if you have more more more vehicles
cost vehicles. Yeah, he taught with some families that have
like three or four kids who are paying twenty thousand
dollars a year for car insurance a loan.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Make any sense to me?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Which is mine? Does that happen my buddy when he's
playing twelve thousand a year? And I thought that that
was nuts?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
That is nuts.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And they are in a similar situation where they've got
a bunch of vehicles and a bunch of drivers. Ron himself,
he's been trying to shop his plan to save money,
but even still to no avail. But so what is
it that you can do out there? Well, ask about
good grade discounts.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Your child is a good student, uh huh.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
And so specifically these are some pointers you have kids,
but any other discounts that might be available, We want
you to leave no stone unturned, but then have your
kid participate in the.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Costs, especially if they get a ticket.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Point out the like, these are things that they don't
necessarily know, and they're just, you know, they're just kind
of thinking about the things that matter to them that.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Might they take it for granted that they yeah, exactly
that they care about.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
But if you're like, hey, by the way, if you
ever get a ticket that's coming out of your bank account.
I think that right there, like that alone can help
them to drive a little bit more cautiously. I've even
noticed even like when I'm driving, like when I'm taking
the kids to school, they'll look up ahead and see
like the light they know it's getting ready to turn yellow,
and so those say like, go go, go go, because
(30:06):
they like get into school early to see their friends
and whatnot. And I'm like, no, I'm realizing, like we
have to start setting a better example, or I do
at least like now. And to mention that decay, She's like, actually,
it's good for them to see us like not constantly
toe of the line. But it's a reminder that they
learn from seeing how we drive as well. But again
for it to also be a topic of conversation as well,
(30:28):
and for if you've got teenage drivers, for them to
know that, like, hey, you're gonna be on the hook
if if you get a speeding ticket, yeah, my moving violation.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Sure. My nephew just turned sixteen and he is in
that crowd who's less interested in driving, so he's been
holding off. And I know my sister and brother in
law have Actually I think that they'd be fine with
him going ahead and getting the license and moving on
with driving and taking himself places. But at the same time,
the cost is real and significant, and so they have
(30:58):
I think got in the quote. They kind of know
how much more it's gonna cost, and they're.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Racing themselves a little bit.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
They're like, take your time, sweetie. However, you don't have
to get your license anytime soon because it is so
much more expensive data team to your policy. So this
is brand new territory for us. But pretty much like
once you have a licensed teenager, you have to add
them to the plan, I'm pretty sure in most states,
which means by default, like you are automatically going to
see your premium skyrocket. I think I'm gonna certainly encourage
(31:26):
them to get their permit, but maybe we don't ever
get their light, not ever, and I'm gonna make them
drive all the time when we're going. Is this frugal
or cheap? It depends on how much it's gonna cost,
and if they want to partake in the cost, and.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
How long can you hang on to just the driver's
permit where they're just learning how to drive, as opposed
to them being a fully fledged independent driver where we
have to add them onto the on the plan. Right,
it's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Looking ahead when you look at kind of what's happened
with inflation over the past few years. Car insurance is
one of the scariest parts of what's happened on that front.
I know it's freaking out a lot of people and
it's testing a lot of budget. Let's talk about Black Friday, Matt.
Black Friday continues to evolve. It's no longer a day.
It's no longer the day after Thanksgiving. Now it's this season.
(32:09):
It's an extended period of time where different retailers are
offering sales and discounts. So, yeah, you don't have to
wake up at five am any longer to get the
terrific deal on a flat screen TV or a computer
or something like that, which I think is good in
some ways, in bad and others. Walmart just announced that
it's going to have three distinct phases of Black Friday.
(32:31):
We won't go over the specifics because it varies depending
on whether or not you're shopping online or in store,
whether or not you're all Walmart Plus member, they will
have access to extra deals that others will not. The
best deals are going to start though around November eleventh,
so multiple weeks in front of Thanksgiving. We're talking about
a few weeks in front of Thanksgiving. This is I
think a call to pay attention to sales, to keep
(32:53):
an eye on prices so that you're not overspending. You
might find that you can get a refund if the
price goes down after the by the way, if you're
still paying attention to prices and what's happening with them,
but also be careful because you can easily overspend.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, it kind of feels like a slippery slope because
once you start looking at the deals, you start thinking,
well I need that, yeah, you know, and more than
anything else, I think what we would encourage folks is
that try to consume less, challenge yourself to find other
ways of spending your money.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
And if there's a couple things you actually want, Matt,
you can do like a deal alert in a website
like slick Deals, so if you know the exact item,
put it in there and then they'll notify you when
of the price drops, so you're not like constantly looking
and prousing attempted.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
To buy Stuff've never set up these parameters these filters
before and slick deals that might have to get that
a shot. So if you are going to get out
there and you know you're looking for something specific, let's
talk about comparing the best prices between different retailers. One
of Walmart's biggest competitors is Amazon and Kiplinger. They just
wrote an article about which of the two, which of
(33:52):
the mammoth retailers is more affordable, and it turns out
that Amazon they win most of the time, although so
so keep that in mind. Ams on the wind most
of the time. But prices are the exact same the
vast majority of time. Seventy percent of the time the
prices are basically the same. But this is just another
reminder to price check if you if you do know
(34:13):
that you're gonna buy something at the very least, check
with one of the other major retailers, and.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
They're often like price matching each other. So it's like
killer sale over here. Well, all these other stores are
going to jump in and try to offer the same price.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, and you mentioned slick deals. Don't forget using different
extensions and sites like honey or Camel Camel Camel if
as other ways to put some of those price alerts
or just to look back at the price history of
certain items, the ability to look at not just the MSRP,
but what the actual price of that item was, because yeah,
maybe it's a deal now, but actually last week it
was an even better deal and you just missed out.
(34:46):
You just need to wait a few more weeks for
it to drop back down.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
A lot of marketing, a lot of cloudiness, and the
prices these days, especially online, So that'll help kind of
cut through the bs I guess, so that you can
actually know, well, is this a deal or is it not?
Checking the previous price history helps.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
A lot, but chances are you probably need less stuff
just overall, don't we all?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
We do?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
I do, I'm trying to. I mean, we are trying
to spend so much more, not trying to spend more
when we are looking to spend, like as we're looking
ahead to the holidays, like we are, we've already purchased
tickets because we're gonna focus on trying to do more
experiences with the kids as opposed to just filling the
house with stuff that we're just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Why did we why did we sign ourselves up for this?
And then the rooms are an awful mess. And yeah,
and kids are like where's my stuff failure as well,
because they're just like oh, because.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Then they can't keep up with stuff and can't clean
their rooms.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
All right, that's gonna do it for this one, Matt. Yeah,
we'll put links to some of the stuff we mentioned
up in the show notes on our website at howtomoney
dot com. But until next time, best friends Out, Best
Friends Out,
Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.
Today we're talking about paltry predictions, working for wealth and
Black Friday unfurled. That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
This is our Friday flight where we're going to get
to the most pressing stories that we've come across this
week and how they pertain to your finances. And you're
mentioning Black Friday Angel visions of like the nineties and
the two thousands, whe folks whould line up at the
store like you did back in the day to get
the flat screen. People don't do that anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
No, they don't.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I don't do that, at least I'm glad they don't.
Like I just don't go into stores hardly that often.
But where I do go is Costco. Did you see
that Costco's unveiling the little door scanner thing?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Or actually I went last week and they had them
set up. You have like scan your Costco ID on
your way in.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's so dumb, because I'm sorry, I take it back Costco.
The lady in front of me her car because they
still have somebody there that's like attending to the machine
or whatever. And the lady in front of me her card,
it said that her membership was invalid or something like that,
and the lady was like, no, it's not. And then
the other lady was like, oh you can. You've been
coming and you've paid and had no problem registering or
(01:25):
uh checking out. She's like no, say okay, come on in.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
They're still figuring out the kings, right, I guess, so
that should be generous there. So I think what Costco's
trying to do here, tell me if you think I'm wrong.
I think what they're trying to get that Netflix bump,
the cracking down on passwords, and Costco's trying to crack
down on membership sharing. And so they're thinking that they're
going to see a meaningful bump in in people signing.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Up for memberships here because just give somebody else your card.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
No, because now it shows up on the screen what
your picture looks like when you That's the whole point.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So they can say I didn't know why they were
doing it.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I'm sorry, sir, this doesn't like you. This is somebody
else's membership. Well that's that's why your Costco card has
your picture on it, right, because you're supposed to show
him anyway. So it's just a bigger picture the door
when you walk to They're not always checking that that closely,
but they will be now with the scanner. So this
is like their technological ability to now say, oh, Matt's
(02:15):
coming in, that's actually Matt versus Matt's neighbor who he
lent to his membership card. Two.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh, I see, yeah, I'm curious to see if that works.
I will say, based on our conversation with Chris Hutchins recently,
can you hold up your your Apple pay your your
phone to be let in as well? Because he was
talking about how he puts his Costco card on his
phone on his Apple Pay, which makes sense that you
can do the Apple.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Pay, right. I thought he put it on his the
Costco app. There's a Costco app? Oh is that? What
are you saying?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Nothing, You're saying Apple pay.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
No, you can put your Costco credit card on Apple pay,
but you can't put your membership on Apple pany. I
don't think. Oh.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I was thinking, okay, double click to pay slash double
click to also get in the store.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, that's what I want to be able to do.
I mean, I don't have to open up a separate app. Well, sorry,
Bud doesn't revolve around me, and my wish is no. Okay.
Well but oh by the way, Calamen was yesterday and
your your thing with your kiddo's is you pay them
to not eat candy, right, uh huh okay.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So that last year was the first year that we've
ever implemented that and it was crazy successful.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And who ends up eating this candy? Well? I do
like over the we still had you know what I
pay you to? You know what we did earlier this
week we literally threw out all of our.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Old candy because it's just I mean, it's stuff that's
old and you know, like you've had a Snickers bar
or something that's kind of been old and it sits there,
it gets all mixed in with the fruit flavors and
then it tastes all messed up.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I hate that. And so in some of that stuff,
I don't know how old that is. And so the
ability just to completely hit reset. Before the Halloween, the
new Halloween stash came rolling in, but the kids have
not yet fully sorted out all of the candy and
and how much they want to cash in essentially, But.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, no, I think it's a good plan and I
think for everyone else, though, who's says, Oh man, my
kids got so much candy. I wish they wouldn't need
all of it. Well, maybe you can incentivize them with money.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
From a house standpoint part with someone. I don't want
them eating all that.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Oh yeah, no, it's it can be overload, man. I
mean I remember the first couple of days after trigger
treating when I was a kid, and it was just
like gorge Fest.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
And I swear too, like in years past, this is
always when the sickness gets kicked off. Oh yeah, it's
right after Halloween, and it's it's it's not necessarily that
sugar is so bad for you, it's the fact that
that keeps you from the other healthier things that you
need to be.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
You're filling up all your calories on crap. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, are y'all going to implement something similar.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
The reason for the holiday? I don't know. I like
what you're doing, and I might. I think I'll at
least give them the option because that they see your
kids giving up a lot of their candy for money,
and I think they're like, I don't know if I
do the same thing, but I might give them a
least the option.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
It's hard initially because their eyes are wide and it's
you know, it's a ton of fun. But after a
while they start realizing that, actually, maybe I will take.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
The buy out. Yeah, ten cents apiece.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Ten cents apiece, and then for the for the bigger ones,
a quarter. Okay, So I'm willing to pay out even
more for the big ones here because some of the neighbors.
You know, you always hear about the nigh Oh, you
got to go to the neighborhood, because they hand out
the king size. But anything that's like, you know, like
the full size, anything bigger than the fun size, I'm
willing to pay a quarter for.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Makes sense? Yeah, all right it let's get to the
Friday flight, Matt, all the stories we found interesting this week.
Let's kick it off by talking about an investing prediction.
They're the good folks over Colden Sacks. I don't really
know anyone there, never talked to anyone at Golden Sex. Folks.
I can't imagine all of them are good. Some of them.
Maybe you're so generous, I know. Well, they just announced
(05:33):
that future market returns are likely to be muted over
the coming decade, basically saying Hey, we foresee the S
and P five hundred returning like three percent annualized over
the coming ten years, So every single year three percent returns.
That's basically one percent after inflation, which is pretty crummy.
So yeah, not if you hear that and you take
(05:54):
it to heart, you're like, that's not good. I would
hope my stock portfolio would do better than that. And
it's worse than any other prediction that you or I
have seen out there on the internets, which is interesting.
We talked about kind of predictions regularly on the show
because a lot of other market soothsayers or want to
be sooth sayers, they've been editing their market predictions for
this year upward, which is always amazing. It's like, well,
(06:16):
I predicted something at the beginning of the year, but
it's October and the market's been crushing. Can I revise
that thing now? Right? Right?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So isn't that called cheating? You're not allowed to do that, right.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So, at the beginning of the year, the average market
predictor was saying, I foresee a two percent return, something
very tepid over the coming year, and it's been much
much higher than that. So basically this prediction is saying
to keep your expectations low for longer term market returns,
And I guess it begs the question what should we
do with these sorts of prognostications, And I think you
(06:47):
and I we always come down on the side of
not much. You know, we have seen actually abnormally great
returns recently. This year has been amazing. Last year was
great in the stock market. But we got to take
the good years with the bad ones. It is. I
think there is certainly a possibility that Golden Sacks could
be spot on with this, where we could see a
decade that returns weren't so great after a decade of
(07:08):
fantastic returns. The truth is, we just don't know. And
it's just also important to note that the stock market,
it's not like it's completely detached from reality. I think
valuations are high, but our economy is doing far better
than other wealthy nations right now, so it's not like
stock market. Why is it so high? Like we can
there's at least a method to the madness. There's a
reason for it happening totally.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, And I will say, historically a return of three
percent or less for the decade that happens less than
ten percent of the time, so that's not very normal.
Could it happen again, yes, But these predictions they should
not influence the actions that you take today if you're
in the wealth building phase of your life. Again, every
single prediction about what the SMP would do this year
(07:49):
was way off. Predictions were that we'd see something like
a two percent increase in the SMP. But we're somewhere
around twenty percent right now. If you zoom out just
a little bit more and look at the past twelve months,
we're at thirty seven percent. Wow, thirty seven Like that's insane.
It's close to like four years worth of growth right there,
which I think just in the past twelve months.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
He sat reversion of the mean With that Goldmen Sacks
is counting on or at least betting on.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I don't know though. I mean, like we are like
you and I were not permables, right like, we don't
think that we're are that we are on this endless
upward rise.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
There are some.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Signs that US stocks, in particular, that they might be overvalued.
But trying to shift to savings because you think that
you're going to make more over there over the next
ten years. That sounds like a really bad choice. Yeah,
if you ask me, especially if you have decades to invest,
keep bellar cost averaging into the market. But I mean
if I was saving for as short to medium term
(08:41):
goal of let's say four to five years, guess what,
I'm still going to stick that market, that money into
the market if it was me personally, But especially if
we're talking about retirement savings, You're gonna be just fine,
stay diversified and continue to invest in the market.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, that's what we say here. Now, while we're talking
about investing, there was some interesting data recently that came
out about how different generations have different investing styles, and
we talked about what with Gene Twangy about intergenerational differences
in how we view money. That was kind of a
fun conversation. But those differences have largely been defined by
(09:15):
cultural markers and by macroeconomic events, specifically the most dramatic ones.
Gen Z for instance, Right, they've seen incredible stock gains
since they started investing, which means they're kind of keen
on investing. Hey, this is a good game to play
because it's helping me build my wealth. That's the good part.
I don't know, maybe It makes me think about millennials too,
(09:35):
in the Great Recession, graduating into a poor economic climate.
Maybe they're a little more conservative, and so gen Z,
as it turns out, is taking more of a gambling
mentality into how they invest. Josh Brown actually recently said
that very similar thing when he came on the show.
And essentially they're the robin Hood generation, right, and they
(09:57):
don't mind taking risky bets on s angle stocks and
crypto coins, NFTs anywhere, remember those things. Nobody talks about
NFTs anymore, Matt. I think they've largely gone by the wayside,
and a lot of do people care good written crypto
punk or whatever that all that stuff people.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Board apes man like it wasn't that long ago, but
it seems like forever.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
It feel like.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
On one hand, it's like, oh, we were talking about that,
not all that long ago. I can I still remember
the stories, Yeah, as we talked about it, But it
also seems like a lifetime ago because of how much
has changed when it comes to what folks are allocating
their funds towards.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Literally haven't heard those three letters put together in a
long time. Nobody seems to care, and I'm sure that
those things are worth a whole lot less, if not
completely worthless. But all of us have a bias because
of how we grew up, what we were taught about money,
what we've experienced, and then kind of what we've experienced
overall culturally and economically. But I think this is just
(10:54):
for us. Matt reading this, it makes me think that
people just need to look at a longer historical timeline
to be your guide when it comes to how you
invest one hundred percent, not just hey, what's happened over
the past year, two years, five years. If you're one
of those people who is risk averse, the truth is
taking no risk comes with its own risks as well,
namely inflation. Taking too much risk, on the other hand,
(11:16):
comes with the potential for big losses. So I guess slow,
steady risk appropriate. That would be our advice. That's psych
typically our advice on the show. But I see these
different generations kind of taking different tacks, and it's like,
I don't know, maybe more balanced view, balanced response from millennials,
agen Z and Uchen extras and boomers two is what's
called for.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Makes a ton of sense that we need to look
outside of our own personal experiences, even let's go back
even to another generation. Makes me think of the Silent
generation or the Greatest Generation. I don't know which one,
whatever it is that folks call it, but like the
hesitancy to invest in the market because of the Great Depression,
sticking money under your mattress as opposed to trusting in
actual financial institutions. But while we're on this note of investing,
(12:01):
morning Star they recently wrote a piece about trading platforms
that are increasingly incentivizing risk. And we're talking about gamification
here because these game like elements, they can be great
for incentivizing saving, but I think they can lead to
really poor behavior on the investing side, leading to more
frequent trading, leading to speculative bets. And again, let's revisit
(12:23):
a brokerage that's in the spotlight, Robin Hood. They're now
allowing folks to bet on the election on their platform.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I hate this.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We did an episode many years ago at this point
about how to level up your money game by using gamification,
but I just hate that it's such a slippery slope.
We're seeing more platforms, is it. Caulshy and Predicta is one,
But there are these new gambling market platforms that are
It's I don't like it for multiple reasons, obviously the
(12:51):
fact that folks are losing money, but I think a
lot of individuals see this as their sort of foray
into in this case politics, Right, it's like, well, I
don't know money where my mouth is. Well, yeah, But
the thing is it's less of a focus on policy,
and it's more of a focus on sort of the
pop cultural elements of it by just like, oh, let
me throw some money on that where the wind's blowing
(13:11):
right now. Yeah, I guess that's the part of it
that I hate. You're if you are sort of betting
in this way. I think people have a belief that
they are sort of being involved with politics, but in essence,
it's they're not at all. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, our attention is being has been hacked by the
social media apps, and now our investing habits have been
hacked in some ways by at least certain companies trying
to get us to participate more in risk of your behavior.
So you're right, I think gamification can work in a
positive ways. There's some apps out there, thinking of like
Cube Money, Matt, that's one of those kind of budgeting,
(13:47):
banking apps that can help you use the envelope system
in a digital way. That's a great way to gamify
your finances. And then there are negative ways in which
we're being preyed on in the gamification sphere, such as
gambling on election or trading becoming a more frequent trader.
That is what's scary. So use the good ways, avoid
the bad ones to the best of your ability. Now,
(14:10):
let's talk about work for a second. At the risk
of sounding reductive, people make more money when they work
longer hours. No way. Yeah, it doesn't sound like rocket science,
does it. But Tyler Collen, who is like one of
my favorite economists, his.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Podcast is a very smart individual.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, great podcast. He wrote about this in Marginal Revolution. Yes,
his blog what's his name of his actual podcast Conversations
with Tyler Oh, that's right. Yeah, so both are good.
But he wrote about this in Bloomberg and it feels
like one of those things like does this need to
be said that if you work more you make more money? Well,
I don't know. The way he explains that I think
is helpful. He highlighted this recent study that economists did,
(14:49):
and the study found that a twenty percent variance in
lifetime earnings can be explained by a difference in the
number of hours that you work. Essentially, if you work
thirty five hours a week, your friend works forty five
hours a week over time, on average, they are going
to make more and compound their wealth more quickly than
you will. And as Tyler wrote in the piece, matt
(15:09):
He wrote, the decision to work harder operates on at
least two levels. First, you put in more total time,
which leads to higher lifetime earnings. Second, you invest more
in your human capital, which makes you more productive. Again,
this isn't something that's shocking, or wasn't I think understood
by many kind of intuitively. But it's interesting to see
(15:30):
some data attached to this common sense economic reality. And
that doesn't mean that I think everyone should go out
there and works seventy hours a week. Part of the
reason investing makes so much sense is because it can
allow you to work less. Right, so letting your money
work harder for you than you're working for yourself.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I feel like, so everyone's or not everyone, but a
lot of folks have heard of like the horseshoe theory.
I feel like this is a perfect illustration because there
are a lot of folks that are like, yeah, no, duh.
But then you get folks who are educated and they
start doing research and they start picking it apart and
they're like, well, actually, there's all these other factors that
play into it. There's don't forget about policy, don't think
about the systemic issues that we have when it comes
(16:09):
to working and earning more. But yeah, in this case, Tyler,
he's like digging into the data even more, and with
his research and the numbers and the data is able
to point out the fact that like, oh no, in
this case, our intuition is actually is actually correct.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, it makes me I think of Kobe Bryant back
in the day. He would talk about how I think
he used to work out three times a day, and
he's essentially saying, I'm so far ahead of everybody else
because of all the hard work I've put in there.
There's some truth to that. Yeah, even if you start
working out four times a day, you will never catch
up to me, is what he was saying to like
the younger basketball players. And yeah, hard work isn't everything,
(16:41):
but it's amazing how how impactful can be on your
wealth building journey.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, to a certain extent, it's hard to be just
putting the reps in, but there is a limit to
trading your time for money, especially for lower income earners.
And it's also important to note that hustle culture, like
essentially that's what we're talking about here, it can just
lead to burnout. It's going to be to live that
that knows to the grindstone lifestyle for too long. And
despite the fairly clear line that's that you can draw
(17:07):
between the hours that you're going to work and the
income that you're gonna earn, it's also important to work smart,
not just hard, right, So it's not just about putting
more hours in, but to actually think about like work
on the job, like not working solely within the job,
Like by working on the job, you're saying, how can
I actually make this thing better? But then also to
prioritize your life, not just your bank account, not just
(17:29):
your net worth. Because I think there might be seasons
where you do work more to earn more, but there
are also going to be other seasons will work takes
more of a back seat. But more than anything, I
think the takeaway from me is just to think about
this from a consistency standpoint, because I think about the
kind of life that I want to lead, and I
think about someone who might be going one hundred and
ten percent right, and by going one hundred ten percent,
(17:51):
you're earning like ten percent more and that's nice, but
you also have like zero margin in your life. Other
aspects of your life are falling apart, and maybe you
end up I can work like twenty five years in
thirty years in right, as opposed to imagine if around
year twenty year, like I don't this is I've been
going pretty hard. What if I dialed it back a
little bit? This is such a great argument for coast
(18:11):
fire right, So for all the financial independence folks out there,
and to say instead of going like I was plugging
away at one hundred percent, I'm going to step it
back to ninety In a couple of years. Oh, I'm
want to step it back to eighty percent. Imagine kind
of like gradual stepping off the pedal. Yes, And imagine
if like thirty thirty five years in you say, you
know what I want to work like at fifty percent.
But because of that, because of all that additional time,
(18:34):
maybe you're able to work for another decade. Maybe you're
able to work for another twenty years, and think about
the added benefit not only to you, like cognitively from
a community standpoint, but also from a financial standpoint, Like
earning fifty percent for another twenty years put you much
further ahead than working an extra ten percent beyond that
one hundred percent for a shorter period of a.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Lot of percentage just throw around. It's you never do.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Math and percentages on a podcast, But I'm just saying
that the ability to work for a longer period of
time at a diminished intensity, I think it's going to
lead to a much happier life for a lot of
folks in a better financial position.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah. I think you're right as well. I think a
lot of people might read that and then be like,
oh cool, Tyler, so I should be working a lot more.
And I don't think that's what he's getting at. I
think he's just getting at an ultimate reality that work
is typically tied to income.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
And I like the individual empowerment part of the message
that he's relaying here.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, and the truth is, if you want to earn more,
oftentimes it will involve working more. But you and I
were also in favor of balance, and so it's nice
to know that, and it's nice to know that during
certain segments of your life you might prioritize that and
at other times you might back off of work a
little bit because, guess what, you have been frugal, You've
paid attention to your investing, to your finances, and you
(19:44):
don't need to work as hard as everybody else around
you is likely doing. But Matt, we're going to get
to more on this episode, including what newlyweds want for
as a wedding gift. It certainly seems like the concept
of a wedding registry is dying. We'll talk about that
more right after this.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
All right, Joe, we are back from the break. We've
got more to get to. It is now time for
the ludicrous headline.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Of the week. My favorite time, Yeah, is it literally
your favorite time? Like?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Our pick this week is from the New York Times
and the headline reads, homeowners tap into their rising home equity.
This sounds familiar, anel. It sounds like this is a
movie we've seen before and it doesn't end well.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, it's like the Second Joker, I Guess It, which
was apparently panned by all the by everyone, it was
a muscle.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, I didn't. I think I could have told you,
Like even just like in the initial the first production
meeting where they sat down and we're like, hey, this
is what we're thinking, right, I feel like I could
have saved them a whole lot of hearder.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
This headline is the equivalent of that.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
For everyone out there who owns a home, it's incredibly
exciting to see the value skyrocket, which directly impacts your
net worth. Maybe for you, it's like your favorite pastime
is hopping over to Zillo and checking out your estimate.
If you bought a home like four or five years
ago or the decade even before that, you've done incredibly
well for yourself. But what should you do with that
(21:10):
mountain of increased equity? Well, that's another matter. Balances on
helocks are rising quickly twenty percent over the past few years.
Home equity loans that have fixed rates are becoming more
popular this year as well. But once you take that
equity out and you spend it, well, you've now got
another recurring monthly bill in your life. It puts your
financial security at risk. And it is not that considering
(21:34):
a helock is never a good idea. It's just that
it rarely is for most folks. For the kind of
spending that most folks out there are being tempted into.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
And I'm getting literally like solicited to take out money
from my banker credit union because they're saying, look at
all this home you have that is put it to use?
Is what they want.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I think that's one hundred percent of the reason. The
fact that there are so many mortgage servicers out there
and they're texting us, they're sending us the email blasts saying, hey,
it's so easy, right board they want the business, yes,
because I mean that's the business that they're in, is
to try to get more customers taking money out of
their homes, out of this piggy bank. And it's the
fact too that like nobody's b I shouldn't say nobody,
(22:12):
but like if you have a retirement account, you probably
feel worse for like tip making a four to win
k loan or cashing out a retirement account. It feels
like a more egregious move because it's literally labeled like
this is your retirement account, but your house, Oh it's
a it's a gray area. Who knows what you could
use this for? All sorts of things. Yeah, I think
I think you're right. And the thing is, we don't
actually have stats. We don't really know why people are
tapping into their home equity. I would be super curious
(22:34):
to see some sort of study about the main reasons
why people choose to take money out of their home.
If you're taking out like a small amount in order
to perform a minor bathroom renovation or something like that,
and then you've got this plan to pay it off
in twelve months or less, then I think you and
I could sign off on that, Matt. We might say
more power to you. You're using the helock for what
it was made for. And guess what, You've got a
(22:57):
bunch of equity in your home. Cool, using a little
bit of it to improve your home. It's not the
worst thing in the world. But I think other folks
are seeing dollar signs when they look at their house
and they're taking money out because they can, and because
someone told them they could. Mortgage rates, well, they're not
following like a whole lot of people expected them to.
And the rate on the helock it's not guaranteed to drop.
(23:17):
I think a lot of people are saying, oh, cool,
we're in this era now where interest rates are going
to go down, But are they going to go down
as much as a lot of people have predicted.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Maybe, maybe not. And so we're still talking about paying
like nine percent on money you borrow against your home.
So in our estimation almost all the time, it's better
to hold off and save up, save up the cash.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, and you mentioned like doing a small bathroom renovation,
and I think a lot of folks might be thinking, oh,
but I can deduct the interest that I'm paying towards that.
But was it the last week that the IRS they
just released the new numbers for next year standard deduction's
gone up. Yeah, thirty thousand for married couples, fifteen thousand
for single filers.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
That's a really high bar.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
And so I think the fact that, like that's in
the back of a lot of people minds. But the
fact is, I think fewer and fewer folks are going
to be itemizing their taxes, itemizing their deductions as opposed
to taking the standard.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
But while I think a lot of people see that
and they say, oh, that's one more reason to take
money out of my home, and it's not because for
most people they don't qualify for that interestroduction.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
It's a neot point. Well, while we're talking about houses,
guess what more folks want these days when they get married.
That's right, a house instead of a big wish list
of items that might go in their home. They would
rather have a down payment donation for the actual home
instead than not. Everyone's heard of the marriage website Slash magazine.
(24:37):
The Not found that the sheriff couples including a home
fund on their registries has increased sixty two percent since
twenty eighteen, which, personally, man, I think this is awesome
because cash it's easier to give the recipient. They can
do whatever they want with that money, whether it's to
put towards a down payment for a home or to
get something else.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That the old school actually one way of doing things right.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
The Asian way as well, Like you got the red envelopes. Yeah,
there's something about here. Why is it our culture that's
so weird about that? Well, it's our culture. I don't know, man, Yeah,
there's there's I'm all for it because it's incredibly practical.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But I think there are still going to be a
lot of other folks out there who are going to
feel that it's slightly uncouth to ask for cash donations
as or cash gifts versus an item something which is
not like there's a whole lot of thought that went
into it, right, Because if you make a registry, it's
like you weren't being thoughtful. You just bought this thing
for me instead. Is anhird roundabout thing that we do here.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
The only reason I'm buying something I know you want
is because you told me you wanted it. So if
you tell me that you want cash for the down
payment for the house, cool, I mean, yeah, it saves
me some time, some hassle, and it also allows me
to give you the thing you actually really truly want.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Did you normally get a whole lot of gifts when
y'all got married?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Oh? Yeah, because we did the old school way with the.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Registry, remember spending all that time going back to bed
bath and beyond making the returns and actually getting the things.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That you needed or wanted, because we didn't want to
be like ungrateful weirdos who asked their cash. And so
I'm so glad that cultural element is changing because you
should be able to ask her that, and I would
like to give you that. Do you have any items
from that you received as wedding gifts that you still
use today or still have. Oh, for sure, like what
like my I can't think of lake crusette pot. For sure,
that's one of the best things. I'm sure there are
(26:15):
other things. I'm sure we have other pots and pans
and stuff like that, but maybe we have a cast
these great steak knives that are like French steak knives
that came from I want to say, Creighton Barrel and
they're great, very cool.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
The one thing I can think of that we registered
for it. I was like, I can't believe we're registering
for like one hundred and fifty dollars trash can, but
we did, and so one got.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It for us.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
We literally use it every day. Nice simple human you know,
like the stainless.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Stale foot operated.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I'm like, is this thing ever going to break? I
love it, But I don't think there is many things.
There are many things out there that they make us
solidly as they made that trash can. I can't wait
to have my kids come home, like whenever they're married
or something. We can to be like, is this the
same trash can when we were kids? Indeed children, it
is I.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Love that that remind you of your wedding day trash
can in your kitchen.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I just remember registering for it and being like, I
can't believe, like because you can buy yourself practical Matt,
a ten dollars rubber made trash can. But we're like,
you know what, I don't want to see that garbage anymore.
I'm a I'm about to be a married man. I'm
not living that bachelor.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Your own adult. Don't make me look at the trash.
I get what I want. Yeah, exactly, all right, let's
keep talking about real estate. Real estate data firm core
Logic says that most homeowners don't have enough homeowners insurance,
and if there's anything we've learned Matt from the devastating
storms in the Southeast recently in some of our favorite
towns close by, is to check your insurance policy to
(27:35):
make sure you have enough coverage, and to make sure
that you have the right kind of coverage too. The
cost of building materials and labor have risen significantly, which
means now is a great time to double check your coverage.
Make sure you have what's known as replacement cost coverage,
which could be actually more than the actual value of
your home, because the cost to rebuild your home could
(27:56):
be more than what Zillo you mentioned. This es meam,
that could be more than what the z estimate is right.
Increasing your coverage could raise your premiums. Yes, it could
cost more to have that insurance now, but it's crucial
to budget for that because the whole point of insurance
is to be covered in case something catastrophic happens, and
so you want to make sure you actually have enough coverage.
Trying to get the absolute lowest price could be cheap,
(28:19):
not frugal, that's right.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
So on the flip side of the insurance discussion, Joe,
let's talk about car insurance teens. They are more reticent
to get their driver's license these days than in decades past. Personally,
that kind of bums me out that you know, less
risk taking that whole thing. But it actually might be
a good thing for the parents, at least from a
financial perspective. Friend of the show, Ron Lieber, he's been
(28:42):
writing in the Times regularly about how much it's costing
families to ensure their fleet of vehicles. Which there's your
first problem, right, if you have more more more vehicles
cost vehicles. Yeah, he taught with some families that have
like three or four kids who are paying twenty thousand
dollars a year for car insurance a loan.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Make any sense to me?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Which is mine? Does that happen my buddy when he's
playing twelve thousand a year? And I thought that that
was nuts?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
That is nuts.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And they are in a similar situation where they've got
a bunch of vehicles and a bunch of drivers. Ron himself,
he's been trying to shop his plan to save money,
but even still to no avail. But so what is
it that you can do out there? Well, ask about
good grade discounts.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Your child is a good student, uh huh.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
And so specifically these are some pointers you have kids,
but any other discounts that might be available, We want
you to leave no stone unturned, but then have your
kid participate in the.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Costs, especially if they get a ticket.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Point out the like, these are things that they don't
necessarily know, and they're just, you know, they're just kind
of thinking about the things that matter to them that.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Might they take it for granted that they yeah, exactly
that they care about.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
But if you're like, hey, by the way, if you
ever get a ticket that's coming out of your bank account.
I think that right there, like that alone can help
them to drive a little bit more cautiously. I've even
noticed even like when I'm driving, like when I'm taking
the kids to school, they'll look up ahead and see
like the light they know it's getting ready to turn yellow,
and so those say like, go go, go go, because
(30:06):
they like get into school early to see their friends
and whatnot. And I'm like, no, I'm realizing, like we
have to start setting a better example, or I do
at least like now. And to mention that decay, She's like, actually,
it's good for them to see us like not constantly
toe of the line. But it's a reminder that they
learn from seeing how we drive as well. But again
for it to also be a topic of conversation as well,
(30:28):
and for if you've got teenage drivers, for them to
know that, like, hey, you're gonna be on the hook
if if you get a speeding ticket, yeah, my moving violation.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Sure. My nephew just turned sixteen and he is in
that crowd who's less interested in driving, so he's been
holding off. And I know my sister and brother in
law have Actually I think that they'd be fine with
him going ahead and getting the license and moving on
with driving and taking himself places. But at the same time,
the cost is real and significant, and so they have
(30:58):
I think got in the quote. They kind of know
how much more it's gonna cost, and they're.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Racing themselves a little bit.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
They're like, take your time, sweetie. However, you don't have
to get your license anytime soon because it is so
much more expensive data team to your policy. So this
is brand new territory for us. But pretty much like
once you have a licensed teenager, you have to add
them to the plan, I'm pretty sure in most states,
which means by default, like you are automatically going to
see your premium skyrocket. I think I'm gonna certainly encourage
(31:26):
them to get their permit, but maybe we don't ever
get their light, not ever, and I'm gonna make them
drive all the time when we're going. Is this frugal
or cheap? It depends on how much it's gonna cost,
and if they want to partake in the cost, and.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
How long can you hang on to just the driver's
permit where they're just learning how to drive, as opposed
to them being a fully fledged independent driver where we
have to add them onto the on the plan. Right,
it's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Looking ahead when you look at kind of what's happened
with inflation over the past few years. Car insurance is
one of the scariest parts of what's happened on that front.
I know it's freaking out a lot of people and
it's testing a lot of budget. Let's talk about Black Friday, Matt.
Black Friday continues to evolve. It's no longer a day.
It's no longer the day after Thanksgiving. Now it's this season.
(32:09):
It's an extended period of time where different retailers are
offering sales and discounts. So, yeah, you don't have to
wake up at five am any longer to get the
terrific deal on a flat screen TV or a computer
or something like that, which I think is good in
some ways, in bad and others. Walmart just announced that
it's going to have three distinct phases of Black Friday.
(32:31):
We won't go over the specifics because it varies depending
on whether or not you're shopping online or in store,
whether or not you're all Walmart Plus member, they will
have access to extra deals that others will not. The
best deals are going to start though around November eleventh,
so multiple weeks in front of Thanksgiving. We're talking about
a few weeks in front of Thanksgiving. This is I
think a call to pay attention to sales, to keep
(32:53):
an eye on prices so that you're not overspending. You
might find that you can get a refund if the
price goes down after the by the way, if you're
still paying attention to prices and what's happening with them,
but also be careful because you can easily overspend.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, it kind of feels like a slippery slope because
once you start looking at the deals, you start thinking,
well I need that, yeah, you know, and more than
anything else, I think what we would encourage folks is
that try to consume less, challenge yourself to find other
ways of spending your money.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
And if there's a couple things you actually want, Matt,
you can do like a deal alert in a website
like slick Deals, so if you know the exact item,
put it in there and then they'll notify you when
of the price drops, so you're not like constantly looking
and prousing attempted.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
To buy Stuff've never set up these parameters these filters
before and slick deals that might have to get that
a shot. So if you are going to get out
there and you know you're looking for something specific, let's
talk about comparing the best prices between different retailers. One
of Walmart's biggest competitors is Amazon and Kiplinger. They just
wrote an article about which of the two, which of
(33:52):
the mammoth retailers is more affordable, and it turns out
that Amazon they win most of the time, although so
so keep that in mind. Ams on the wind most
of the time. But prices are the exact same the
vast majority of time. Seventy percent of the time the
prices are basically the same. But this is just another
reminder to price check if you if you do know
(34:13):
that you're gonna buy something at the very least, check
with one of the other major retailers, and.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
They're often like price matching each other. So it's like
killer sale over here. Well, all these other stores are
going to jump in and try to offer the same price.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah, and you mentioned slick deals. Don't forget using different
extensions and sites like honey or Camel Camel Camel if
as other ways to put some of those price alerts
or just to look back at the price history of
certain items, the ability to look at not just the MSRP,
but what the actual price of that item was, because yeah,
maybe it's a deal now, but actually last week it
was an even better deal and you just missed out.
(34:46):
You just need to wait a few more weeks for
it to drop back down.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
A lot of marketing, a lot of cloudiness, and the
prices these days, especially online, So that'll help kind of
cut through the bs I guess, so that you can
actually know, well, is this a deal or is it not?
Checking the previous price history helps.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
A lot, but chances are you probably need less stuff
just overall, don't we all?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
We do?
Speaker 2 (35:05):
I do, I'm trying to. I mean, we are trying
to spend so much more, not trying to spend more
when we are looking to spend, like as we're looking
ahead to the holidays, like we are, we've already purchased
tickets because we're gonna focus on trying to do more
experiences with the kids as opposed to just filling the
house with stuff that we're just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Why did we why did we sign ourselves up for this?
And then the rooms are an awful mess. And yeah,
and kids are like where's my stuff failure as well,
because they're just like oh, because.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Then they can't keep up with stuff and can't clean
their rooms.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
All right, that's gonna do it for this one, Matt. Yeah,
we'll put links to some of the stuff we mentioned
up in the show notes on our website at howtomoney
dot com. But until next time, best friends Out, Best
Friends Out,
Hosts And Creators
Joel Larsgaard
Matthew Altmix
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