Pursuing Happiness In All the Wrong Ways (Bestie) #923

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Merry Christmas, Joel, Happy Christmas. Map.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
So did your kids enjoy the Nintendo Switch that you
gifted them?

Speaker 1 (00:07):
I hope, so I don't know recording the centro before
I give it to them, So I'm curious what your
thoughts are here. Actually, did you.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Have any pushback from your wife about getting the kids
a video game console?

Speaker 1 (00:19):
So it was something we had to talk about, right
because I.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Want you to defend the Nintendo Switch, So full disclosure,
this is something that you and I that we both
gifted our kids that we thought would be a ton
of fun. But yeah, I've received a little bit of pushback,
so yeah, similar, But I think what we came to
the conclusion of was one the pushback was against too
much screen time and we want to prevent screen time overload,
and so well, if we have a video game system,

(00:43):
doesn't that mean we're just gonna watch more screens?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
And I was like, well, no, I think we can
still keep it under wraps. But instead of watching stupid stuff,
it's going to be interactive gaming with each other. So
it's actually more like together time but without being more
screen time.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
And the other thing is so you're swapping the screen
time for like from purely consumed content on the screen
to actually engaging with.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
It a little, right, I get more fan like I'll
play Mario Kart with them. I'll kick their butts, but
I'll play with them.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
I totally agree, because in a similar way, I don't
see it all that different than board games, because it
all comes down to the type of games that you're playing.
Board games are better, but well, I mean, yeah, you
could make an argument.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
That they're better use your brains in a different way,
in different ways, maybe not as good like hand, eye coordination, motor.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Skills, but but you like Still there's a difference in
the types of games that you're playing. It's one thing
if you are on your computer all alone, you're playing
World of Warcraft down in the basement solo. There's a
big difference between that and the memories I have as
a kid growing up playing En sixty four, for playing
Mario Kart, playing GoldenEye or WWF we would always or

(01:44):
I don't know, maybe it's WCW, I don't know, but
the games where you are playing with your friends reinforces
some friendships and community and just some of the similar
kind of gameplay that you get, not unlike a board game.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, I'd get together with my buddies and play Halo
back in the day and it was, oh, you're a
Halo kid. Had a great time. But yeah, I'm not
a huge video gamer, so I'm hoping we I believe
we can keep this under control. The other thing, the
other selling point was less clutter like. And the thing
is you get, dude, is true gifts upon gifts. It's
just taking up space in the house. And then you
kind of start to feel like, I don't know, man,
do we need more square footage or.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
This is like a high impact gift for all the kids,
something that they can all play together. I totally agree.
And I just thought of something else that you said.
You're talking about the hand eye coordination thing. Maybe some
folks might be thinking of, oh, yeah, I heard about
that study of the surgeons who make fewer errors the
surgeons who game. Have you heard about the study it
made the round? That makes sense to me, It intuitively

(02:37):
makes sense, But it's actually a really crappy study, right,
It's not like the best what is it like the
double blind kind of experiments and tests or whatever, where
there's at least two thousand people Like that's typically the
magic number of having enough participants within a survey or
research project. This was like a survey of like thirty
surgeons at a singular hospital. You know, rand You can't

(03:00):
base all your decisions saying that, like, oh, my kids
are going to be better at that life, at being
a surgeon, not being a ny doctor because they played
I don't know, video games.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Causation or correlation. You might say, well, the world's Richest
Man is apparently like the number one player of Diablo.
It's fairly incredible that game, And I'm like, how do
you have the time to do all those things? But Matt,
this episode is not about video games.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
It's about all the ways that video games and all
the other presents that you may or may not have
gotten kind of maybe leave you feeling a little empty inside.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Dude. They always do, like truly, it's the whole Christmas
season is lovely, and sometimes the biggest letdown can be
Christmas morning and you've opened all the presents, you're like,
I didn't get the thing I wanted to or the
thing I got maybe it didn't hold up to my expectations,
and so not to be a Debbie downer on Christmas morning,
but please check out this bestI episode about pursuing happiness
in the ways that truly matter. Welcome to Hod of Money.

(03:51):
I'm Joeled, I am Matt, and today we're discussing pursuing
happiness in all the wrong ways.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, Jiel, you know, it's not that there are folks
out there who aren't pursuing happiness.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
They're doing it the way that they think that they should.
They're just looking in all the wrong places.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
And when some people are going about it in all
the wrong ways, pursuing like actual like their goal, how
can I be happier?

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Which is typically the wrong question to ask.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
If you want to be happy, That is true, I mean,
although I mean that is exactly what we're talking about.
But we're going to talk about happiness in a more
lasting and in a more fulfilling kind of way. That's
what we're going to be talking about today. And also
we are going to talk about money, because money certainly
plays an important role when it comes to our pursuit
of happiness. But okay, so real quick before we get
into it, Joel. So, the neighborhood that we move to

(04:53):
is great, you know, we like it there. There are
a lot of kids, running around, which is also a
great thing. It's a lot of fun to see the kids,
you know, running around playing. This also means that there
are a lot of kids selling stuff. There's a lot
of entrepreneurial kids in your hood, like literally going door
to door and being like, hey, would you like to
buy some of whatever that They made, some bracelets as
well as different stands that are set up along the street,

(05:14):
that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
And there were some.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Neighborhood kids and they had set up like a holiday
treats table or stands. It sounds nice, sounds festive, right.
They were selling hot chocolate for three dollars a cup,
what along with like candy canes and stuff like what
is this Starbucks?

Speaker 1 (05:34):
I'm all for entrepreneurship here, but that's how three dollars
a cup. It's a lot of money. It kind of
blew me away. And Kate really loved the kids to participate.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yes, and we do, or I'll say that Kate does,
because she went ahead and purchased a single cup.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
You were over there, arms crossed, well, grinchy frown, which
I was.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
You know, they had the hot chocolate. When I came
home from work and they were explaining they're like, oh, hey,
we got this, And I was like, oh yeah, how
much were they charged? And she told me I couldn't
believe it, and so like what I told her, I
was like, why didn't you negotiate? Because I felt like
this was a perfect opportunity to teach him another lesson. Well,
I mean, just to talk about it a little bit
and not just be like okay, whatever you say, but
literally to push back a little bit, and you don't

(06:12):
have to be a jerk about it, right, Like you
can be like, oh, man, three dollars, that's a really
expensive cup of hot chocolate.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
How about I'd like to retire Sunday kids.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
How about three cups for five dollars?

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Or or even just.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Been like okay, what about how about one dollar? Just
to start the conversation. I think there's a way that
you can have that conversation. But Kate kind of like
rolled her eyes at me and just like, of course,
this is what you would say. But do I mean,
what would you have done in that situation. Do you
feel like that that's frugal or is that a cheap
move to negotiate?

Speaker 1 (06:40):
What's from patented reaction to you? Now, by the way,
it's just eyes roll, which I get the eye roll,
But yeah, what's your take though, I think it's okay
to be like, hey, Ganz, what if we did yeah, yeah,
three for six bucks or something like that, like, well,
we're gonna go for volume here. You guys want to
be the costco of hot chocolate. That's how you got
a roll. And but yeah, I mean you probably there there.

(07:00):
It depends on how much hard work they put into
it and stuff like that. And if there's like a
peppermint stick coming out of it and all that jazz,
it's like it's I would just pay them the money
if you're interested, or keep walking if you're not.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Maybe I wasn't there to experience all the decor that
they poured, Like yeah, maybe I just pictured a table
with like some hot chocolate that's not so hot. But
it just to me seemed like a lesson, like not
only for like those kids to learn how to talk
to an adult about the price of something, but even
for our kids, right like for them to witness a
little bit of negotiation, for them to understand the value.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Of a dollar.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
I felt that that was a massive opportunity for them
just to learn firsthand, like a real life interaction, and
so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
I think there's a way to do it as long as.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
You're not a jerk about it, right, Like I'm not
talking about being all, you know, Scrooge like and being
like are you kidding and like overturning the table workhouses. Uh.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, No, I think I want to incentivize young entrepreneurship too,
And I think if it gets kids excited, I'm willing
to fork over extra money if even if it feels
like it's overcharging, because man, what a good experience. The
negotiation can be a good experience too, if you're doing
it in a lighthearted and friendly way. But that was
my take. Yeah, but I also think that paying the money,

(08:13):
buying the hot chocolate buying supporting these kids in their
little entrepreneurs to encourage them, for sure, yeah, is good
And you don't wanted to flate them by being like, well, guys,
did you miss them pricing class? That was second grade place.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Went down last month? But yeah, did you miss the numbers?

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (08:31):
I guess I just worry that we're over encouraging these
kids because we also bought some expensive bracelets last like
a few months ago as well, and I don't know, like,
maybe they keep coming back to.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
The well, and they keep coming to your house for
some reason because you keep buying them. Everyone else knows
to say, no, that's sucker written across our forehead except
for you. All right, Well, I like it, and if
you don't have the money to pay for it, then
they don't. But either way, encouraging kids in these pursuits
is a good thing. That should be the bigger lesson. Yeah,
and if they're your kids, encourage them to do the
same and steal your neighbor's money and so they can

(09:01):
buy their own stuff. It's just one giant cycle, right,
or at least on yeah, exactly. All right, let's mention
the beer we're having on the episode today. This one
is called Mile High Salute. It is a Chicha sour,
which I've never heard of this style before. But we
will give our thoughts on this one at the end
of the episode. This one is by Mutation, brewing right
around the corner from us where we live. But Matt,

(09:23):
let's get onto it. Let's move on to the topic
at hand, pursuing happiness in all the wrong ways, And
of course, we hope all of our listeners had a
great Christmas. This is our second episodes since Christmas, so
we hope it was a good one for everyone that
was super enjoyable.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
We're still very much in the holiday spirit, of course, yes,
hopefully you are as well.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Well. It's it's interesting to me when we were thinking
of this episode, it made me think of kind of
the joy that our kids have on their faces Christmas
morning when they run down copious presence under the tree,
and it was like a joy like they were beaming, right,
and so thrilled to get to open these presents, to
get to tear them to shred and see what was inside.

(10:01):
But that joy that they have at seven am, right
when they're so thrilled to open up everything under the tree,
it doesn't look the same later in the day, right,
And I think that's a story that's the same thing
for adults and kids alike. There's frequently like a post
present letdown that almost all of us experience. You kind
of come down from that high for sure. Either there

(10:23):
was something that we wanted that we didn't get, or
the gifts that we did receive they're not quite as
good as they looked in TV, or there's some assembly
required and wait a second, we forgot the battery. There
were any batteries of the package? Exactly? Okay, so very small,
quick tangent.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Did you ever have a present as a kid that
you did not receive that you had all your.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Christmas hopes pinned too? I'm sure I did. Try for me.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
It was the classic Hungry Hungry Hippos. I think we
may have talked.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
About this on the shoard. Is this son familiar? Yeah?
I complete.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
I totally had my heart set on that game because
the commercials were awesome. See those kids mash those levers
of the Hippos, gobble up all those marbles.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
But I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
And that's all my parents remember from that Christmas with
that all your disappointment.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
But there's no hungry Hungry hippen. Well it is. It's
a good game, but it's not as good as it
looks on the commercial ste right, No, exactly, And it's
that disappointment, yes, and in that vein right, the anticipation
of Christmas morning is almost always better than the payoff.
And something close to forty percent of the world's toys
are owned by three percent of the world's population, which
is American children, and so like, are we happier? Are

(11:27):
our kids happier because that's the case because they get
this massive amount of all the toys that are created
in the world. No, I would say, not necessarily, And
in fact, the opposite is often true. Right, The same
is often the case though when it comes to amassing
more wealth, there's this there's a point of diminishing returns.
And today on the show, we're going to talk about
how happiness levels are affected by your financial standing and

(11:52):
how they aren't. Yeah, deep dive on happiness today on HTM.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, and of course everyone probably already knows this, but
all the money in the world is not going to
make you happy. Just like getting every single present on
your list, how that likely only brought you a fleeting
sense of joy. It doesn't last all that long. And
so ultimately, what it's going to take is some introspection.
It's going to take some self examination to fully understand
what it is that will bring you fulfillment and happiness,

(12:18):
not just more money. And it might be, honestly, it
might be a touch ironic coming from the guys. You
talk about money three times a week, right, like earning,
earning money, saving, investing money, these are all great things,
but it's also crucial to put money in its proper place.
And on the surface, this is probably something that you
already know, right, but do you have a deeper understanding

(12:40):
of it? You might have the head knowledge, but do
you have the richer understanding that comes from experiencing it
and living it out. Because I think while many of
us would say, yeah, like, I totally agree with that statement, right, like,
more money, it's not going to make me happier, Well,
we actually end up living our lives in ways that
contradict that statement. And the reality is that it's often

(13:00):
not just the pursuit of money that we think will
make us happy, but it's the things that money can
afford us. I just mentioned Scrooge, but you know changes
are You probably saw some version of the Dickens classic
at Christmas Carol. There's a lot of a lot of
bad ones, bad ones. But I wonder if a lot
of folks I thought about the I thought about this

(13:21):
last time I watched it, because like Scrooge was obsessed
with money, right, just like that the thing in and
of itself, And I think today oftentimes we are drawn
not to money itself, but the things that money can
afford us, that the things that money can can buy us,
and we think that it almost feels unrelatable to picture
somebody who's just like stacking wads of cash.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Or oh that's silly, buy a lambell with it.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Instead, exactly is but they didn't have those kind of
things wait way back then.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
So you're right, Yeah, it's it's the it's the thinking
that shopping in session, we've just gotten more sophisticated.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, with how it is that we are misled, right, Like,
it's sneaky, it's pernicious, But we're often tricked into thinking
that there's just a variety of things that'll.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Make us happy. It's a false hope.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
And so we're gonna dive into a lot of some
of those different things that we think don't actually bring
about happiness, and we'll make sure to end the episode
talking about the right way to pursue happiness as well.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
For sure, and kind of how we think about money
has a lot to do with it. But let's get
into it. Let's talk about maybe what about like an
unexpected windfall, Matt, Like, how happy would it make you?
Do you think if you randomly had ten thousand dollars
deposited into your account tomorrow, no questions asked, that you
could put towards a lambo, no strings attached, that you
could put towards a lambar or whatever you wanted, Like,
do you think that would move the needle for you? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
I mean if you said you want ten thousand bucks,
it'd be like sure, You'd be like.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
What, I'll take it. It's like a play a monopoly
and it's like bank er in your favor, collective hundred
dollars or something like that, and you're like, what amazing
like to get You're all about it just money gifted
to you in that way. It would put a smile
on your face. I think it would put a smile
on mine as well. Well. The thing is it would,
but it wouldn't do it for very long. And that's
because the the Ted organization of Ted Talk Fame ran

(15:00):
an experiment based on ten thousand dollars donations to folks
who lived in low income countries and others who lived
in high income locations. And what did they find, Matt Well,
they found that the folks who had lower salaries the
ones in countries like Brazil, Indonesia, and Kenya, gained a
lot more happiness than folks who lived in rinch countries.

(15:20):
Was their happiness was even more long lasting, and that's
not terribly shocking. If you're on the earlier side of
your wealth building journey, a ten thousand dollars lump sum
could help jumpstart your progress a whole lot, helping you
like acts a big chunk of student loans that have
been hanging out in your life, or allowing you to
max out a roth ira for the first time ever.
Maybe that's been a goal for years, and it's like, boom,

(15:41):
this lump sum money fell into my lap. Now I
can do it in one fell swoop. That allows you
to get the compounding return started earlier than most folks
get to, which of course is a big win. But
for folks who are further along in their wealth building journey,
it's helpful. It's a helpful study to consider because as
you move up the money gear, it certainly seems like

(16:02):
you should be putting less and less emphasis on your
net worth from a happiness standpoint, and so a windfall, yeah,
it might be nice, But even a lump sum of
cash has diminishing returns rather quickly.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, you know, and it's not like you want to
start making bad money decisions on purpose to curb the
growth of your money. Like it's get an oral and
k loan, it's right, giving it all the way, let
me get hit with that ten percent penalty. Right, It's
more about just rethinking the role of money in your life.
And a Wharton study actually from last year that gave
some helpful new insights because they found that a higher
income is linked to increase happiness, but largely because of

(16:37):
the increased control that you then have over everyday decisions
in your life. Basically just allows for greater autonomy. And
so it seems to me that more money is a
better predictor of maybe emotions than of actual happiness, because obviously,
when you don't have enough money, like it's hard not
to like acutely feel that need, right if you can't
pay the bills. But like, basically money it helps solve

(17:00):
quite a few problems for folks in that lower income space,
at least until a certain point. Traditionally that's that seventy
five thousand dollars mark by Nobel researchers and economists Danial Conoman.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Thanks to inflation, it might be more like eighty thousand
dollars now maybe ninety. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
But it's also important to note though, that we are
living in the richest country in the history of the world,
and it's easy to see that it's often just a
band aid and not a permanent fix for many folks.
And what's needed in reality is just a deeper look
not only at their money, but how it is they
pursue other things in life, and how it is that
they spend their time.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, yeah, And how do we know that we're so rich? Well,
statistics for one, but the numbers just just prove it,
right when look at the US is very very rich, exactly. Yeah.
When you look at overall net worth and incomes and opportunity,
we are country ranks super high on so many different metrics,
and so we definitely have an abundance of material wealth

(17:57):
in this country. The toy stat I referenced earlier is
just another pointer the fact that we have tons of
money right floating around in this country. Forty percent of
the world's toys to three percent of the world's population.
There's a big discrepancy there. But the self care trend,
I would say, gives us another window into just how
prosperous we've become, and we're hoping that the Matt and
I at least, we're hoping that the self care trend

(18:18):
calms down a little bit, because it's often it's not
making us happier and it's costing us big money. At
the same time. There's a recent episode actually of the
Money with Katie podcast We Think She's Awesome. She talked
about how spending less on self care and taking less
time to pursue a beauty regimen actually helped her to
feel more empowered, which I thought was cool. I appreciated

(18:38):
her thoughts on that, and then at the same time
I read an article in Vox which came to a
similar conclusion. The article was titled I used all the
best stuff for a week and it nearly broke me.
And what this author, what she seemed to detail was
an increased event towards perfectionism. We would call it the
Didderro effect, right where everything else around you starts to

(18:59):
look a little shabby in line of some of these
new items you've brought into your life. And so it
was interesting to see Matt that her experiment of having
the nicest, newest, coolest, instagram worthy stuff for a month
actually led her to less happiness and worse social relationships.
And I think that's a real problem that we face
when we try to make ourselves feel better through retail

(19:21):
therapy and to stepped up self care regimen, right, that
we put too much of a focus on things, less
of a focus on the things that actually matter, and
that's in large part where we fall short.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, I mean, and there's nothing wrong with like a
nice bottle of face serum.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
All right from the man himself with oils or something.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Like that, but it can easily become a slippery slip, right, like,
because first it's beauty products, it's self care. Next it's
upgrading your professional wardrobe, you know, but with the excuse
that maybe you're doing it for your career, this is
an investment, or you're doing it just because you deserve it.
Like we would say that self care that will actually
translate to higher levels of wellbeing is going to be

(19:59):
less consumption based, like, for instance, a walk in the
woods to de stress. A proper amount of sleep sounds
like maybe the best kind.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Of self care that's out there, instead of staying up
to midnight scrolling Instagram to the bed on time, that.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Direct to consumer model that these companies have gotten so
good at. But these more like less money focus, less
consumption based ways to increase your well being are going
to move the needle a whole lot more than a
new purse or fancy new bed sheets or something like that,
because like many Americans have just come to buy into
the self care ethic to the point that's just costing

(20:34):
the money that they don't have, and it's not doing
much on the on the happiness front either, and many
times it's creating the opposite effect, right, Like remember that
control an autonomy point from earlier on from that study,
the more money you spend on self care, the more
your bank account is going to shrink, and with that,
your autonomy is shrinking as well. And so it's something
that's important to keep in mind. We think that we're

(20:56):
purchasing happiness, but instead we're purchasing our way further into debt.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
And you're also creating a habit that's almost insatiable because
there is no end to the lust for more goods
or more stuff. And so yeah, if you kind of
start to go down this path, you'll find that it's
really hard to recognize when you're going overboard. Yeah, and
it's hard to see that. Wait a second, it feels
like I'm getting momentary bursts of happiness as I pursue

(21:20):
this route, but in the end you're actually left unhappier.
But it's just hard to point a finger on it,
and so you keep going down it until you've gone
quite a way. Yeah, and you have left some of
your autonomy kind of behind because you don't have as
much financial breathing room. We're also not saying, by the way,
that our bodies don't matter, and that we would say sure,
you know, taking time to work out as clutch that

(21:40):
self care you mentioned, it's not the worst thing, Matt
to buy a bottle of face serum if that's your thing.
I don't really ever have any sort of facial regimen.
My wife says I could probably adopt one, but I
don't even know what that means or looks like. I
don't either.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Earlier this year, though, I started wearing a very small
amount of Colonne though, because I was just like, you
know what, I want to have a smell, and so
that's something I do.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Know.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, it's okay to splurge just a little bit, you know,
the brute smells good on you.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
I'm a big fan of rute.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
There's something about smelling like your grandpa that I feel
like resonates with millennial.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Unless you get it for like three ninety nine. Yes, exactly.
There's nothing wrong with like getting massage every once in
a while, or trying to eat healthier and spending more
money on more expensive organic foods things like that. That's totally fine.
Taking care of yourself is good. Like we want to
push you in that direction, but just don't buy into
the trecho self self care mantra that subtly insinuates that

(22:32):
by purchasing fancier products, you're going to be a better
you. You're going to be a happiness happier person. Your happiness
levels they're going to go off the charts. That that
is just marketing, and it's marketing. That sounds good, right.
We want to buy into it because we want that feeling.
But the truth is the feeling is fleeting, and it
actually often ends up leading to lower levels of overall happiness.

(22:55):
So how else, maybe are we duped by some of
these marketing techniques? How how else are we led to
consider buying happiness in our lives? Well, there are a
couple major ways in which we fork over a lot
of money and in the thought, in the hope that
it's going to make us happier. Matt, Let's detail a
couple more and we'll get to those right after this.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
All right, man, we are back from the break and dude,
we were just talking about how self care, how it's
kind of having its moment, right, but essentially, like in reality,
it's just consumerism, right, It's just a new spin on
an old story. But continuing this thread of buying stuff
home ownership that might be the ultimate form of like
potentially mindless consumption.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Just going straight to the sacred count.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
And it's like, yeah, I mean I am because like
a lot of people, they talk about buying a home
as an investment, but there's a lot less truth to
it than most people think. In fact is there are
a lot of folks out there for whom renting makes
the most sense, but they're still drawn to buying their
first home like a moth drawn towards a light. And

(24:06):
also because it's just such an emotional purchase. This is
a category that I think folks they often tend to
stretch their budget on the term house poor. It was
invented for a reason. There are a lot of folks
who are house poor. But does that new home actually
make us happy? Well, we would argue that not nearly
as much as we're hoping it will. A recent study
found that, similar to the ten thousand dollars cash in

(24:28):
fusion that you mentioned, Joel Well, buying a new home
only produces a short term happiness boost. It's likely for
multiple reasons, but it's also because there are walls to paint,
there are toilets to fix, right, things like that, taxes
to be paid. Maybe you realize that the closing attorney
didn't include waste management and your mortgage, and you're like,
what we got to pay for trash? Now, how is

(24:49):
that not something that's included in my mortgage?

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Ye, if you're in City of Atlanta, that's that's actually four
hundred and fifty bucks a year or something like that,
a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
And on top of that, if we've overspent, you know
that more payment, Like it's just hanging over ahead for
the next thirty years, and it's likely only going to
be something that we see increase as the property taxes
also increased.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Sure, yeah, so it's not that buying a home is bad.
Of course, right, we Matt, you and I own homes,
we own rental properties. We're not we own multiple home
We're not against home ownership. But it's just that we
have often in our culture, we've inflated this purchase in
our minds, thinking that we're gonna get long lasting happiness,
which tends not to materialize, like this home is going

(25:29):
to make me happy, right, it's but you know what
is it? They say, Matt, home's where the heart is, right,
and so it's not just the walls in the structure.
And this sounds really lame. I'm sorry, but but you're
gonna quote the Magnetic Zero song. I don't know. I
don't know if I'm with you. That's true, that's good. Yeah, no,
there's that people who are inside of it ten years ago,
I guess. But we just tend to think like, oh man,

(25:53):
this location and this this particular home, this it is
going to make me happy. And I'm not gonna say
that I haven't some satisfaction from home ownership. I have,
but the realities I could have rented a very similar
home in a similar location, gotten a lot of the
same vibes, and so we just we over rank how
happy it's going to make us. And the folks that

(26:14):
ran that study you mentioned, Matt, they boiled it down
to this, They said, we aren't good at predicting what
will make us happy. And I thought that was profound
for all a bunch of dummies economists making writing a
white paper. But for many millennials who are still saving
up for a down payment, they put home ownership on
this pedestal, and I think they think it's going to
solve some of their problems, right, or maybe a lot

(26:37):
of their problems, that that once I get this thing,
it's going to do something that nothing else could do
for me. And owning a home can be a great
thing for individuals, for families, providing something that is I
will say, more than just a roof of your head. Right,
Like for many Americans, their home does end up becoming
one of their largest assets. That's not what we want

(26:58):
to be the case, but that is the reality for
a lot of folks that if you've phoned a home
for ten years or something like that, and you just
like you barely invest in the market because you're banking
on the fact that your home is appreciating. That's your
big like that does become your biggest asset because you
haven't invested enough in other areas. Also, I would say
it's fun in a lot of ways to own your
own place, like the customization right that you that you

(27:21):
can have like paint, paint the walls whatever color you want.
There's no landlord to tell you no, no, no, sorry, hot
pinks off limits. There's also no landlord to say, hey,
actually I'm selling this property. And so you're going to
need to move anything like that, Like you can stability
there as long as you can pay that mortgage, you
can stay. But in no way is it this continual

(27:42):
happiness producer, And it can actually have the opposite effect
if it becomes a massive drag on your monthly budget.
And so it's important to go into home ownership with
the right mindset. Some of these bigger things that we
think are financially intelligent and we're banking on the fact
that they're also going to make us like happier people, well,
the reality is often a lot different, and that for

(28:03):
a lot of folks, home ownership can become more of
a financial drag and a happiness drag.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
That's right, man. We pin too many of our hopes
I think on home ownership. And so far we've talked
about things that you can buy, right, whether it's beauty products,
self care items, or services. I guess we've talked about
buying homes. Let's talk about maybe a different arena somewhere
else that we seek to find happiness, and that's in
the work that we perform. And so I'll start this

(28:29):
out by saying, like, we've got a lot of friends
in the Fire community, right, which is the financial independence
retire early community. And it seems that a decent swath
of those folks that they have a negative view of work, right,
like where they're trying to escape the rat race. They're
trying to escape the nine to five. And really a
large reason why the Fire movement was able to gain steam,
why they were able to gain traction I think over

(28:50):
the past decade, was because just because it was a
rejection of the achievement based, status pursuing view of work,
where all your worth is determined your title or by
the letters that come after your name because of the
education that you've achieved.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
There's a lot of good in that, right, because yes,
it's like who wants to be based their value to
be based on that mostly or solely exactly.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, but the thing is like that pendulum, it was
pretty far to one side, right, and so it swung
all the way over to the other end of the
spectrum in an over correction. But of course we like
to take a more nuanced approach to the work that
we perform. And you know, we think that neither the
rejection nor the blind embrace of work will yield us
the most happiness, right, Like, of course work is important.

(29:34):
We spend a lot of our waking hours at work,
so not hating your job would be great. The ability
to see the value that you're bringing into the world,
how you're making it a better place. That is an
important part of a purposeful life for sure. But we
also don't want you to be defined by your job,
by what it is that you do.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, But we've also I think we've pushed a popular
culture myth of the fact that your work is supposed
to make you happy and you should enjoy what you
do every day so your passions. Yeah, that and that
has I think set up a lot of people for dissatisfaction.
They have thought that they're nine to five should be
something where it's like I love the people I work

(30:17):
with and the work I do serves matters, And yeah,
and I get paid a ton, right, giving me tons
of free time to do whatever I like and browse
on Instagram whenever I want to or whatever. But like,
the truth is that almost nobody has that job, and
even for people who enjoy the work they do one,
it doesn't mean that they naturally gravitated towards towards it

(30:39):
to begin with. There's a lot of people who find
themselves in a job and they're like, they find the
value in it, even if it's not something they intentionally
sought out. And so it's really interesting to see how
some people end up massively happy in work that they
didn't necessarily think was going to make them happy. I
think so much of it comes down to a mindset,
and sometimes on top of it, if your work is
solid and it allows you enough money to pay the

(31:02):
bills and to have enough free time, like, you don't
have to love your job. You can love all the
other stuff outside of your job. But the reality is,
like with three hundred and thirty million Americans, like, not
every single one of us is going to absolutely love
what we do every day, And even when you do
like your job, it doesn't mean that every single day
is like the best thing ever, right, And Matt, we
like what we do here. We get to work with

(31:23):
your best bloody, you get to drink beer, you have
to talk about stuff that matters to us. That boo
hoo hoo. That is a really good thing. And it's
taken us a lot of years to get to this point.
Even still, that doesn't mean that every single day we
come in here with a smile on our faces. Maybe
we should, maybe we should, but like, that's just not
how it works, because there's business stuff to get done,
and so not every day is like this walk in

(31:44):
the park, even when you like what you do. And
that's exactly that's important to mention to.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, honestly, like the way you're talking about it, it
kind of makes me think of relationships, right, And it's
easy to fall into love, right, but what that is
typically is just infatuation. That's not true love. What true
love is, and committing to a long term relationship is
working hard at something. Of course, you're this is someone
who you're attracted to, that you're drawn to, that you
maybe want to spend the rest of your life with.

(32:08):
You have a lot in common with hopefully and yeah,
but you enjoy the way.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Their mind work.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
But it doesn't mean that, like you said, with work,
that it's going to be rainbows and butterflies all the time.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
One sometimes that is what makes the relationship stronger over time,
is the fact that like, you have had hurdles, test,
you've had difficulties, and then it's like, wait a second,
look at what we've come through together, and that makes
the love even better, even richer, exactly.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, So while we're talking about relationships, I think that's
another one that's important to tackle as well, because I
think a lot of people also pin their happiness on relationship.
You know, the belief that relationships will make you happy.
It's it's fairly ubiquitous, but it is also incredibly flawed.
Why else what Over forty four million folks in the
US hop over to dating apps but to find someone

(32:50):
who's going to make them happy. Of course, that's why
these apps crush and there are so many folks on there.
It's something like three hundred and fifty million globally. But
the thing is, the research can firms of behavior as well, because,
according to the Harvard study of adult development, The biggest
predictor of happiness are stable relationships, especially long term romantic relationships.

(33:11):
And not only that, you know, there's plenty of studies
and research out there that have shown that satisfying relationships
lead to better health, it leads to people living longer
as well. And so while this sort of sounds like
this is a slam dunk argument to go out and
find true love, but it would be a massive mistake
to think that this alone is going to bring about

(33:32):
lasting happiness. Like you said, with finding a job that
you love, it's not about necessarily finding a job that
you love, as opposed to maybe creating a job that
you love and finding the things about it that you.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Love and being the kind of person who can enjoy
their work even if it's not the ideal scenario exactly, dude.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, And of course we all know folks who aren't
actually married, right, who don't have a partner or a
significant other, and they're out there quite happy, they're live
in their best lives. So it's not completely dependent on
finding somebody else in order to have happiness.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
For sure. Yeah, there is no The partner is not
going to solve all the things that ails you and
if you think they are, and if that's what you're
looking for, you're actually probably gonna make them unhappy in
your question of happiness, Like both of you will end.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Up placing too much on that relationship and you're putting
too much on their shoulder.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
You're asking it to do something that it can't do.
You're asking a person to do something that they can't do.
Fulfill me right right now. Well, And the likelihood of
those singles being happy has a lot to do with
other important relationships in their lives as well, Matt, like
those with friends and family. And so you only need
to look as far as the Transformational book the Top
five Regrets of the Dying to see this. Interestingly, three

(34:41):
of those regrets three of them have more to do
with self actualization, but the other two are about working
less and pursuing friendships more. And especially given how much
time is being spent alone these days, there were recent
statistics and they're mind blowing. I Mean, I think we're
all tired of hearing the word pandemic at this point,
but there is basically a pandemic of life loneliness, and
people feel more on their own, they feel more disconnected

(35:06):
from the people around them in their community, from friends
and family than ever before. So folks run the risk
of having more relational regrets at the end of their
lives than even ten twenty years ago. We're often choosing
what feels like real interactions on social media over actual,
real conversations and time together. And those interactions on social

(35:26):
media they feel, they seem like they're going to be real,
but they don't provide nearly the same happiness benefit.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, exactly, Like, Yeah, you might have like five hundred
followers on Instagram or five thousand friends on Facebook, but
how many of those relationships actually have depth, actually have
substance to them that would lead to meaningful fulfillment.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Yeah, your boy Christiano Ronaldo has like five hundred million
Instagram followers and how many how many of those followers
does he have deep connections with? None of them? Right
or almost none of them? And there is something to
be said about that. It's like, at what point does
that follower count or do those online interactions matter? And
I would say they don't have much influence for the

(36:05):
most part over our happiness, And in fact, because we
spend so much time doing them, it's often having the
opposite effect. And Neil Hilborne. He once said, I'm not
saying you have find meaning the meaning of life in
other people. He said, I'm saying other people are the
life to which you provide meaning to. And I think
that's really profound. I think when we stop looking to
find meaning in other people in the relationships around us,

(36:28):
and we seek to provide meaning instead to the people
around us, that's when our happiness levels are going to
go up and our deeper sense of purpose is going
to be felt.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Exactly if you look at it through like the consumption
production model, it has more to do with pouring into
other people's lives, and hopefully you have people who are
doing that around you as well, who are pouring into
your life. Like it kind of comes down to again
when we're talking about social media, it comes down to
like quality over quantity, right, And while you might have
hundreds or thousands or hundreds of millions if you're a

(37:00):
soccer superstar. By the way, you know, I'm a more
of a messy guy than Ronaldo. Personally, I thought you
were Ambappe.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
No, he is awesome.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I love him, But the quality of your relationships relationships
matter a ton because obviously if you have somebody in
your life, whether it's a friend or certainly a partner,
and if it's a bad relationship, if it's a toxic relationship,
you're going to see the opposite of happiness. Right, You're
going to have increased stress levels, your your health probably
is going to be worse. I guess you could take

(37:28):
it to its ultimate conclusion, and maybe there's research that
shows that you're not going to live as long. Basically,
all the opposite things that fulfilling relationships provide poor quality
or even toxic relationships, I've got to think do the opposite. Yeah, well, so,
I think the basic formula probably for a greater relational
happiness is to spend less time alone, spend more time
with the people that matter to you, and then act

(37:51):
as though you are actively seeking to make them happier.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Right. And the more you seek to do that, the
more you're pouring into those relationships in a way that
benefits the other party, the more your happiness is going
to be impacted, and the more they're gonna be for
you when it counts to Like, the more you're gonna
have people around you when hard things happen, and like,
you need those friendships to support you then in lean
times that you might have.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
That's right, man, I could not agree more. That's certainly
a way to increase the amount of happiness and some
of the satisfaction that we're able to garner from the
different relationships in our lives. But right after the break,
we're gonna continue along and we're actually gonna dive into
some more scientific, some nerdier terms that we think will
ultimately help you to distinguish between some of the different

(38:35):
types of happiness. Like essentially, we're gonna boil it down
to two different types of happiness, and we think that
there is room for both of these types of happiness
in your life, and we'll get to those right after this.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Okay, we're gonna keep this happiness conversation going back. This
is making me happy as we speak. The happiness train.
I still thought you're gonna say, keep it on rolling.
And by the way, we have train tracks like real
close do where we live. I saw the other day trains.
There was a truck on the train tracks, but it
had like wheels, train wheels. All. Yeah, he was doing repairs.
So it's so funny. Did you see it on Saturday?

(39:14):
Maybe it was so cool. I never seen one before.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I have so I've seen those trucks driving around town before,
but I've never actually seen one on the tracks where
it had the steel little steel wheels drop with the tires.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Propelling it along. Thought that was awesome, look like the
cool thing of it. I was like, totally agree. If
I have a job after podcasting, maybe it's repairing trains,
the drive the truck that's that's allowed to drive on
the train tracks. My son would be so jealousy. Yeah,
I saw it.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
I was like, West, you look, buddy, it's just like
train truck. I was like, that's what I would call
it too.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
But that is somehow the combination of my two favorite things.
Dead exactly. Well, let's talk about happiness, Matt, because it's amazing. Yeah,
just the how sometimes those little things can make our
kiddos so happy. Seeing a train seems. I'm always amazed
seeing Christmas lights, even just a couple of weeks ago,
going to see some free Christmas lights with my kids
seeing them through their eyes. Boom, their eyes light up,
and it's like, this is the coolest thing. It's not

(40:07):
even something new, it's just an experience that they get
to enjoy. But and I would say, maybe we're getting
a bit far along in the podcast to define terms.
But we've been talking about. What we've been talking about
here largely is the difference between hedonic and you demonic happiness.
That's right, And you've you've heard us talk about the
hedonic treadmill before on the show. If typical listening for
any period of time typically a bad thing.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
It's where you spend a bunch of money and you
get that quick little sugar rash, that little, quick, little
peak of happiness. But then you got to keep you
return right back to your baseline of happiness, right, and
then if you don't, don't actually get anywhere.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Continue Like let's say you started a skincare regimen and
your skins look good, then you're like, I don't have
the money to keep it up. Well, you're gonna be
less happy now because you started it and it was
taken away. But hedonic happiness is centered around the bliss
that momentary pleasures can provide, while u donomic happiness has
much more to do with meaningful activities boost our ability

(41:01):
to self actualize, which typically brings about more lasting happiness
in our lives. And so you might think that we're
here to throw all those forms of hedonic happiness out
the window. You might say, Joel, Matt, they only want
those long form ways to boost our happiness. But that
is not true actually, because remember what we're doing right now.
Part of the philosophy of our show even is that

(41:22):
we drink at craft beer while we talk about money,
because we care about even some of those a few
of those hedonic abilities to enjoy happiness in the here
and now, some of the tangible physical realities that do
actually contribute to our happiness if used properly, and if
you're in a decently stable personal finance position, well, we
think it's important to find the right balance. And even

(41:43):
though we come down pretty hard on mindless consumption, that
doesn't mean that you can't enjoy some of the nice
season life in the here and now. And that's yeah,
one of the things that craft beer does for us, Matt.
I feel like in a lot of ways, that's right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
What's interesting is that it seems like oftentimes when it
comes to hedonic happiness like that comes about by us
spending money, whereas when we're pursuing you tomonic happiness, oftentimes
we're spending time which is the whole time and money
parallel has always been one that's that's fascinated me. So,
like you're basically talking about how we're not gonna we're

(42:16):
not gonna like drop the hammer on hedonic happiness.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, which would maybe.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Be a will that be a decent name for a band,
But we're also not going to glorify you tomonic happiness, right, Like,
we're not going to say that that you should avoid
worldly pleasures in an attempt to live a mission driven
life one hundred percent of the time. And if you're
not working towards your goals every second of the day,
then you're just a worthless human being. That would be

(42:41):
a puritanical existence that we're not seeking to strive after.
But you are listening to an episode on happiness, and
so you know, we do want to encourage you to
find ways to maybe like reasonably maximize both hedonic happiness
and you tomonic happiness, and we think that that's going
to be the best way to leave a happier life overall.

(43:03):
You've got to find that balance, and you've got to
figure out which aspects of each of those types of
happiness ring most true to you.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, all right, so how do you do that? Well,
when it comes to increasing the amount of hedonic happiness
in your life, the more consumption oriented version, well, the
simple mechanism we'd recommend is to budget, or at the
very least, to track your spending. That's right, And by
doing this, you're gonna be able to see where your
dollars are actually going. You'll be forced to confront the
actual facts on the ground, and then you can simply

(43:32):
ask yourself if you like how you're spending your money,
Like do I like spending seven hundred and fifty dollars
a month eating out? Or could I spend that money
in a way that's gonna move the needle in a
bigger way for me? Like, you know what, I didn't
realize I was spending that much. I thought I was
spending three fifty a month eating out. That sounds like
more like what I should be spending. I can dial
it back because then that means I'm gonna be able

(43:53):
to take two more trips a year with family or friends,
like create better memories. And I feel like, right now
it's just going down the toilet. You might say, actually, no,
I want to spend one thousand dollars a month eating out,
because these are always relational experiences with people that are
closest to me because I'm a food e Yeah, exactly,
And that's fine too, but so much if it's about
being intentional with your money rather than frittering in a way,

(44:15):
and if you want to make the most use of
it to boost your hedonic happiness in the biggest way,
you're gonna want to track it. And then you're gonna
want to kind of hold that up to the light
against your values and say, like, well, am I actually
spending my money the way that it's going to produce
the best results on the happiness front for me? Exactly?

Speaker 2 (44:33):
And I like that you pointed out that it could
also be somebody spending money on trips, because it's not
that all hedonic happiness should be derived from items, because experiences,
like you said, trips, vacations, going out to eat with friends,
those are oftentimes you know, most folks can consider those experiences,
but those can also be a form of hedonic happiness

(44:53):
because typically you receive that short term high, right like
you go out.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
To eat, the food's delicious.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
You are enjoying it in the moment. Maybe there's great
cocktails you see some other friends, it's a fun time.
But then after that, all that's gone in the same way.
And you know, some folks would make an argument to
say that, well, there's memories being formed, and so there's
a maybe a richer form of hedonic happiness that's taking place.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Maybe there's a little you demonic buzz you're getting at
the same time. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yeah, but I mean oftentimes you tomonic like it it
comes down to the like I guess, the work that
you're performing. But essentially, like you said, it's it's holding
it up to the light. It's aligning, it's finding alignment
between what it is that you want to spend your
money on and how it is that you're actually doing it.
And so, yeah, we want you to boost your hedonic
happiness by intentionally spending your own money, and then you're
able to boost your eu tomonic happiness by intentionally spending

(45:42):
your time. You know, Like, like our society, like us included,
sometimes we tend to always use the term wealth to
refer to money, but you know, like they're all sorts
of different ways that we think you can be wealthy
in this life, right, Like you can have relational wealth,
you can have creative wealth even just like you know,
as we're talking about you tomonic happiness, just missional wealth
that allows you to feel like you're making a difference

(46:03):
in the world, right.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Of a wealth of knowledge that comes from reading books
and sending information. That growth that's taking place gives you
an internal richness, right exactly.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
It's like essentially what we're talking about here, all the
different types of wealth that allow you to self actualize.
We're talking about mas Thow's hierarchy of needs, and that
is at the tippy top, and that is I mean,
it's kind of there's a reason that it's literally at
the pinnacle of the of the actual trying because.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
You've got to have all those other bases covered before
you can really think about that exist. And that's why
you mentioned the seventy five thousand dollars reference earlier on
Matt and how Yeah, if you're making twenty thousand dollars
a year, barely making ends meet, then it's going to
be hard to focus on some of these other levels
of happiness. So money does play a role in your

(46:46):
ability to pursue some of these other things. The more
money you have in the bank account, the more it
allows you to have some of this free time. But
the problem is a lot of us don't take that
when we have it, and so yeah, I don't know,
but what.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
It's still a very functional thing to talk about, right, sure,
Like there's a reason why we have a show called
how to Money because we still think it's really.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Important, right, and especially given kind of the ability that
we have in this country, which is, like we said,
one of the richest country in the history of the world.
We have more opportunity to maximize our money, to make
smart decisions, to buy ourselves, more ability to do some
of these things. And so I guess someone might ask
the question like, well, why do you guys spend all
your time your work lives essentially dedicated to talking about money,

(47:29):
And we would say, well, handling money well is probably
it's one of the main tools in life that allows
you to pursue other things of even more importance. It
allows you to actually have more time thinking about that
the eudonomic happiness components, and so many folks don't know
the basics, right, which is why we're on a mission.
We're on a mission to change that. Yep. But this

(47:50):
is also why we don't get super nerdy, incredibly technical
with some of these other deeper aspects of personal finance,
because those don't really matter all that money either. And
you're talking about the difference between doing ninety five percent
of the things spot on and then spending an inordinate
amount of time optimizing taket an extra three percent, right,

(48:11):
And so we want to redefine the focus of money.
We want to say, listen, these are the things that
really matter. We want you to get these things right.
We want you to handle money well because it impacts
all these other areas of your life. But it's also
not the end all be all right, and and that's
that's That's exactly how we feel about money, is that
it's a really important tool, but it's uh there. It
also lacks a lot of things too when it comes
to how happy it makes us exactly.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, So money it's still going to be the focus
of our show because we do think it's it's it
really is such a foundational tool.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
In January, we could change our name to how to Happy,
how to beer, how to bike. These are all the
topics we talk about on the show. Okay, but let's let's.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Get more practical with it, right, And so if budgeting
and tracking your spending, if that allows you to reprioritize
how you're spending your money, well, then simply looking at
your calendar like that can help you to do the
same with your time. And so look at it and
see is like is it full of events and meetings
that you are excited about? Or have you slipped into
the busyness trap that's so easy to fall prey to,

(49:09):
I mean, especially this time of year. That being said,
not everybody follows their calendar maybe as strictly as others.
And so maybe if you'd rather start with the end
in mind, it could be helpful to start with, like
some of life's biggest questions, you could take it a
completely different approach and you can come up with a
mission statement that you can work towards. I think for
a lot of folks, having that end in mind, having

(49:30):
that goal that you're working towards can just allow everything
else to kind of fall into place, as opposed to
starting at the bottom and kind of piecing it together.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
It can act like a guiding light to inform the
other choices, and you decide to incorporate it into your life.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, yeah, and so we we'll link to a worksheet
that we've created to help you to find the answers
to some of these questions. It's our money mission statement,
but the money part of it is kind of secondary
to the first questions we ask, which is primarily more
about how it is that you want to spend your time,
because ultimately time it is the most valuable resource. It
is the most scarce resource that we have, and that

(50:05):
ultimately defines what it is that your life looks like,
how it is that you are spending your days and
your weeks.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
And we think this is the perfect time to be
thinking about this topic because we just got maybe, like
I referenced at the beginning of the episode, Christmas lets
you down in a way like it wasn't all that
you hoped it would be. And you built it up
through the month of December, singing the carols, listen to
the Mariah Carey jams, and you were like decorating the
tree Maria Carrey's out. Man. You just see the headlines.
Is it not still the number one most listening to

(50:31):
Christmas song? It might be, but everyone's like revolting, nobody
wants to hear it here really more? Yeah, yeah, Okay,
don't tell that to my wife. Your wife is such
a millennial. She loves that song. She hates Mariah Carey. Well,
you're doing all these things right in this effort to
have a happy Christmas, and yet you may have still
felt a little bit let down. And so especially as

(50:53):
we're going to towards a new year and you're starting
to think about like maybe things you want to change.
There's a fresh start. We're going to talk about fresh
starts here next week on the show. But you have
this ability to use use this fresh start to propel
yourself forward in a different way. This is the perfect
time to be thinking about all these things. Yep, as
you're kind of making those plans and from where we're sitting,

(51:13):
cultivating a rich inner life, like delightful hobbies and indispensable
community are some of the keys to finding happiness. Money
it's not unimportant, right you know what, Matt and I
were not planning to take a vow of poverty anytime soon.
You're not going to live a monastic existence, and not
yet at least, maybe monastery become one of those desert fathers.
Maybe your wife and kids would love it if you left.

(51:36):
And right now they think that was great, it'd have
to be like an empty nuster thing. Yeah, maybe that,
But like money doesn't have all that much bearing on
a lot of these things past a certain point. That
is kind of what we're getting out here. And if
you've been listening to this show for any point of time,
you know we're not against building wealth through your future.
But now is a great time to think about how
much stock you're placing in your bank or your investment accounts,

(51:58):
and are you placing too much of a prior already
on those things to the detriment of other more important things.
That's food for thought as we're heading into a new year.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Man, couldn't have said it better myself. Let's go ahead
and shift gears and get back to the beer that
you and I enjoyed during this episode. This was called
mile high Salute, which is the only mile high salute?

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Is that the Broncos football thing? Have you ever heard?
I think it is when they do the you know,
when they store a touchdown? Yeah? Did they do that anymore?
I don't know. I feel like I remember that back
in the day. Carol Davis, I remember him exactly.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
But this was a Chicha sour and when Jack dropped
these beers off, you mentioned so one of the co brewers,
or I guess one of the co owners of the brewery.
He I think he's half Peruvian. And there is a
drink called the Chicha something mayb maybe it's called the
Chicha sour.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Chicha Mrada, I believe. Oh is that it? Oh? Very nice?
Did you look it up? I did?

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Okay, Wikipedia so helpful. But this beer is brewed in
the style of that drink, and so I would like
to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Joel. All right, I've never had a beer like this,
which I think is always fun to try something always fun, unique,
like a little out of left field. This one definitely
was that. It was a really cool combo of sour,
spice and fruit, and so I like the pineapple, but
there was also cinnamon, but then it was also sour.
Until it's like, it feels kind of like a kitchen

(53:18):
sink beer in.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
A lot of ways, but not in a weird way,
not in a weird way, like it all actually works,
everything blended together really well, and so I will say, like, yeah,
it sounds a little weird on its surface.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
If you read all these ingredients combined into one. But
I don't know. This beer pulled it off and I
enjoyed it. What about you?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yes, So when we poured this, the what I was
picking up on the nose, I could not get past this.
But Lesardo Marischino licur uh huh. I like to sometimes
put a little like tiny little splash of that when
I'm making an old fashioned. In my opinion, that's exactly
what this smelled like before I tasted it, because yeah,
because I don't for whatever reason's that's what I'll smell him.
But then you take a sip and you can definitely

(53:57):
taste that fruit, and for me, the cinnamon really came through,
like in my opinion, that was not something I was
picking up on my nose for whatever reason. But then
once you taste it, you most definitely taste that.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
So there's a lot in the flavor profile for sure, clothes.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
It's all mixed in there. And this one in particular too,
I thought you might really like this one because it
was not overly sweet. I was expecting it it might be,
you know, personally, I would appreciate if it was a
touch sweeter, but it was had a nice smout of
tartness going on, and honestly, that's great from the standpoint
of not having like palette fatigue. You know, like I
guess a sweeter beer, you drink it once and you're like, oh,

(54:30):
this is amazing, But by the time you get to
the end of the glass, you're kind of getting sick
of it. Yeah, starting to feel kind of full. But
that is not the case with something that's a little
bit on the dryer side. You get to the end
of it and you're just wanting more because it's dry,
and you're like, oh, I need more sweetness, any more
wetness in my mouth. Definitely really enjoyed this one. This
was an incredibly unique beer and if you happen to
be near Mutation Brewery, we would recommend you checking it

(54:51):
out for.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Sure, just outside of Atlanta. We still haven't been in person,
but we'll make it happen soon. M Well, that's going
to do it for this episode, Matt, Folks and fine
show notes links to some of the studies maybe that
we mentioned in this episode. You can find listen to
that yeah on our website at Howtomoney dot com.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
That's right, and we are getting towards the end of
the year, and so we will ask you one last time,
if you have enjoyed this episode, or just our show
in general this year, We would love it if you
were to head over to Apple Podcasts or wherever it
is that you listen and leave us a positive rating,
give us a nice review over there. It just helps
others to find this show. You could even see it

(55:28):
as a belated Christmas gift, a nice little present for
Matt and Joel, so much better than the ugly Christmas
winter you thought about sending us exactly, but Jiell, that's
gonna be it, buddy for this episode. Until next time,
Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,

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Hosts And Creators

Joel Larsgaard

Matthew Altmix

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Pursuing Happiness In All the Wrong Ways (Bestie) #923