March 12, 2020 • 52 mins
What began as a distant and mysterious illness in China at the end of 2019 has now been declared an official global pandemic by the World Health Organization. The virus, now known as COVID-19, has spread to well over 100,000 people from Asia to the Middle East, Europe and the United States. On this episode of Next Question with Katie Couric, Katie asks experts like Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, Head of the Outbreak Investigation Task Force of the World Health Organization, to break down everything you need to know about this alarming outbreak — where it came from, how it spreads, and what you can do to protect yourself against it. Katie also speaks to Yulin Yin, a Minnesota man who shares his extraordinary journey out of the center of the epidemic in Wuhan, China, to a 14-day quarantine in San Diego and finally, home to his family. Katie also calls on Dr. Bill Schaffner, Medical Director of the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases, to answer some of your burning questions. For the most updated information on COVID-19, go to CDC.gov and WHO.int.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic, and welcome to Next Question Today.
Now to growing concerns about the deadly coronavirus officially hitting
the US. Los Angeles County, where ten million people live,
has declared a public health emergency. In Washington State, they
are confirming now the first US death. There is a
(00:20):
confirmed case here in New York City. Coronavirus is now
in the nation's capital, Texas, Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts. What
began as a distant and mysterious illness in China at
the end of twenty nineteen has made its way around
the world and is now spreading across the US. As
of this recording, the majority of states have confirmed cases
(00:43):
of coronavirus that range from a few to hundreds. Here
in New York City, where I live, there at least
thirty six confirmed cases, and Mayor Bill de Blasio says
they're coming in intensely. Just this week, I had my
own brush with the virus, which is now officially called
COVID nineteen. On Saturday, March seven, I ran into an
(01:06):
old friend, Rick Cotton, who's the head of the New
York and New Jersey Port Authority. Two days later news
broke that he had tested positive for COVID nineteen. We
only had seen each other on the street very briefly
and didn't have any physical contact, but still, in this climate,
you can never be too careful. After I heard the news,
(01:26):
I immediately went home and called the c d C.
I also called the New York State Department of Health
and spoke to my own doctor as well. In addition
to them, I spoke to the first guest on this podcast.
They all assured me I was at very low risk
for contracting COVID nineteen and there was no need to
self quarantine. So I'll continue to take the same precautions
(01:50):
as you are, hopefully washing my hands, staying away from
large crowds, and monitoring my symptoms. But all of this
leads me to my next question, what is coronavirus and
how can we protect ourselves and our loved ones. To
understand more about COVID nineteen, I called up someone who's
(02:12):
working on the front lines of this outbreak. Hi Maria, Hi,
how are you to be there? So nice to hear
your voice, you too. Dr Maria van Kirkhove is ahead
of the Outbreak Investigation Task Force for the World Health Organization.
She lives in Switzerland, but she traveled to China just
a few weeks ago to study the virus. How would
(02:34):
you assess the current situation with an understanding that it
seems to change almost by the hour. Yes, so this
is an evolving situation, you know. So this is this
is an outbreak that began in December UM with a
cluster of patients with pneumonia UM in Wuhan, China, and
then it has spread to other parts of China. UM
(02:57):
over the course of the month. In January, there were
case says that were being detected in other parts of
the world, mainly in Asia to begin with, but also
in other countries. And this started with a travel link. UM.
And this is we we we found cases that were
identified in a number of countries, and the outbreak has
grown since then. UM. What is interesting is that this
(03:18):
is a new virus. UM. Very early on, the first
cases were alerted to US in late December early January,
but within a week, within one week, the Chinese authorities
were able to identify that this was a new pathogen.
This was a novel coronavirus. That's where that word comes from. UM.
And that and that's very important. So they were able
(03:40):
to identify that within a week using full genome sequencing,
was looking at the parts of the virus itself UM,
and in finding that new virus, they were able to
share that with the world and say, this is a
novel pathogen. Here's the sequence, which they made publicly available,
and that allowed countries all over the world to develop
(04:02):
PCR tests for laboratory detection tests so that they could
start looking for that virus. What exactly is a pathogen? Ah,
so the pathogen that we we normally call these pathogenes
either viruses or bacteria. This new pathogen happens to be
a virus. I lead a group on emerging diseases and zoonoses,
(04:24):
and most of the new viruses that we find come
from animals and they they spill over from an animal
to human, and we were constantly on the lookout for
new pathogens, new viruses that are infecting humans. Let's talk
about this one. What animal was responsible for the coronavirus?
As of today, we don't know, UM, but there's a
(04:47):
lot of investigations right now that are looking for what
was the animal source of this outbreak? UM. This is
a coronavirus, and we know that coronaviruses have a link
back to bats um. Most viruses, most viruses come from baths,
but coronaviruses come from baths initially. But what we think
happened here is that there was another animal, or what
(05:08):
we call an intermediary host, that animal was infected, and
that animal was responsible for infecting humans. There's a lot
of investigations underway in animal markets because some of the
initial cases in December UM had reported a link to
one particular market, and so that gave us a clue
that there could be an animal force. Tell us about
(05:31):
how contagious this is compared to other pathogens you've just
you've studied. So this is this This virus causes a
respiratory disease, and so people who get sick have respiratory symptoms.
And the way that it's transmitted between people is through
droplets um, which means if you cough or if you
sneeze on somebody, you are releasing some of these droplets
(05:55):
from your mouth, these little droplets of fluid, and those
droplets can go into the eye, his nose, and mouth
of someone else if they're in close distance to you.
Not in the air, but in they're actually in there
within three feet of you or so UM and so
if you're common contact with an infected person UM, you
could potentially be infected by them. And what we know
(06:16):
about this virus is that for every person who's infected,
on average, they infect two to two and a half
more people, and that means that you have the possibility
for this outpret to take off. What's important to know
here is that um it's a new virus, which means
everyone is susceptible UM and so what we're trying to
(06:37):
do with all of the information that we put out
is to try to tell individuals what they can do
to protect themselves from being infected. So everyone is susceptible
because nobody has built up the immunities to prevent them
from getting this virus. Having said that, um it doesn't
seem as dangerous for young children as far as everything
(07:00):
I've read, um and it's much more dangerous for either
older people or those who have compromised immune systems. Is
that accurate? Yes, that's right. What we know from initial
data is yes, indeed, young children seem to not be
infected as much UM or develop severe disease. So most
(07:21):
of the children that we are learning about that are
infected UM have a mild disease. We do know that
people of older ages over sixty seventy eight years old UH,
and people who have underlying conditions like cardiovascular disease, diabetes,
chronic respiratory diseases have a higher risk of severe disease
(07:43):
and death. You mentioned how it can be transferred from
human to human. A lot of people are also concerned,
Marie about how long it stays on surfaces. UM, what
are you learning about that? So we are learning that
this virus can stay on surfaces. So one of the
ways that it gets on surfaces is if you cough
(08:04):
or if you sneeze, These droplets come out of your
mouth and they move some distance from you and then
they settle down on surfaces UM, you know, like a tabletop,
UM or a door knob for example. But they can
be killed by disinfectants. So it's very important that surfaces
are clean regularly with the chlorine bleach for example, UM,
and then you can remove the virus from those surfaces.
(08:27):
And what are you learning about the lifespan? Because I've
heard everything from a few hours to several weeks in general,
it's a few hours. I mean, well, it could be
a few hours. I should qualify what that means. It
doesn't mean one or two hours. It could be up
to a day or two. That's still hours. But that
sounds like a really long time, doesn't it. I think, Katie,
(08:47):
what's important is for people to know that they have
some control over this. You know that they can um
protect themselves, they can protect their families in a simple way.
Is is regularly disinfecting your word space. You know, if
you look at your keyboard and you look at your
phone surface, making sure that that's clean, making sure your
handlebars are are cleaned a few times per day, making
(09:09):
sure you wash your hands. I mean, I know what
people must be so tired of us saying this, but
washing your hands with soap and water is a lifesaver,
not just for COVID nineteen but for many things. And
if you can't wash your hands, making sure you use
an alcohol rub well. You know you mentioned and I
noticed that things that are are cleansers are Purel. Sorry
(09:30):
to use a brand name, but they're antibacterial. And if
this is a virus, how does Purel protect you from
from it? If it's in fact antibacterial. Well there are
with the alcohol that's in these alcohol rubs, Um, you
are removing that virus from from your hands. I mean,
the best thing for you to do is wash your
(09:50):
hands with soap and water and make sure you follow
the steps and you get all of the surfaces of
your hands and you can remove those viruses from your hands.
But the alcohol rubbed alcohol has to be six or
above alcohol and that will remove that virus from the
from your hands. You were very kind to talk to
me after I realized I had a sixty to ninety
(10:14):
second conversation with someone who was later diagnosed with coronavirus
and was probably about three feet away, didn't touch and
basically just had a casual conversation. Can you please direct
some of what you would say to people who are
panicked that I actually, you know, was talking to somebody
(10:38):
who was later diagnosed with coronavirus who at the time
was it was asymptomatic. Yeah. So, so, first of all,
it's it's important to acknowledge that people are scared. You know,
there's a lot of information that's out there, UM, some
of it is accurate, much of it is inaccurate, UM,
(10:58):
And people are scared. It's a new dis ease, it's
a new virus UM, it's spreading around the world, and
people people can be quite fearful of that. What's important
for us to understand is, you know, why are people scared?
What is it that makes them scared? To try to
address some of those UM. The thing that you you've
mentioned is you you've indicated the type of exposure that
(11:19):
you may have had or you did have with this individual.
Knowing what the risk is UM is really important. So
you've indicated you know, the person was asymptomatic, you were
more than three feet away. It was a very it
was a very short encounter. You know. Putting all that
into context, what's important for everyone to do is to
(11:40):
assess their own risks. You know, look at what their
exposure was, UM, what their potential exposure was, because most
of the times it's even potential exposure is not actually
real exposure to the virus. And then there's certain things
you need to take into consideration. What is your age,
what are your underlying conditions? UM? And then what do
I do? So if you are concerned, what should I do? UM?
(12:03):
And I think it's important that people know that they
can contact their local health authorities UM Departments of Health. UM.
You know within the US you have the U s C,
d C. There are hotlines that you can call. You
can call your own GP and ask the questions that
here's here's my concern, here's my potential risk. What should
I do? We need people to know what they can do.
(12:26):
And what is different about this virus compared to flu
is that containment is not possible with influenza, but containment
is possible with this coronavirus. And the reason we can
say that is because we've seen such incredible efforts by
a number of countries, including China UM that have really
showed us that transmission can be reduced, case numbers can
(12:49):
go down, and in many parts of China they have
their zero reporting cases. So what are they doing right?
They have their entire population mobilized to against this. Every
single person in the population knows what they can do
in terms of these three things I mentioned, handwashing, respiratory etiquette,
social distancing. UM. They're Chinese authorities and other countries. Is
(13:12):
not just China that has shown us. Singapore is another
good example. UM. They've shown that if you identify all
of your cases and all of your contacts UM, and
that they're isolated so that that you remove them from
transmitting to other people, UM care for them, making sure
they get appropriate clinical care, making sure that they're communicated
with and so that they know what their risk is,
(13:33):
and and and by keeping them either in quarantine or isolation,
that they're they're performing a public health good. There's been
a lot of suspension of public gatherings UM, and there's
been some movement restrictions in several temporary movement restrictions in
many cities across China, and so all of those that
combination of of UM efforts has has driven down transmission UM.
(13:58):
In some situations has been quite dream and we've seen
that in Wuhan where we've seen a total lockdown of
some cities, and you're hearing about some of this happening
in Italy as well. But that restriction of movements of
individuals prevents the spread UM of the viruses. So what
we're doing for all countries, Katie, is we're talking to
all of governments UM and saying the more aggressive action
(14:21):
you have early on, the better chances you have to
stop the outbreaks of starting UM. And we have evidence
that this works in several countries and we want to
see that happen in the rest of the world. So
you mentioned UH self quarantine or quarantining populations. When should
self quarantine or any kind of quarantine be put into effect?
(14:44):
Who makes recommendations on this? But it's up to national
governments to implements, and different governments have implemented different measures
in this respect, so it's important to follow the national
guidance of what each country recommends. UM. What you did
in a perfect example of this is that you had
an exposure and you went home and you self isolated
(15:05):
or you self quarantine. You went home and that was
a good measure before you and then you made those
phone calls to say, okay, what is my risk UM?
What we recommend It depends on the type of exposure
you have. If you're a contact of a known case UM,
then we recommend a quarantining of that individual so that
there's no chance of them passing it on to another individual.
(15:26):
They're monitored for fourteen days, which is the incubation period,
which is the time from UM infection to the development
of symptoms UM, so that for over those fourteen days,
people are monitored and they're checked for symptoms to make
sure if they have any fever or if they have
any respiratory symptoms, and then tested. If we do that,
if we actually find all of the cases, find all
(15:49):
of the context, and we we can by doing that,
we can actually stop transmission from from happening. We can
stop human to human transmission from happening. So, not to
make it all about me, but I did have contact
with a known case, was it Maria because it was
before the diagnosis was confirmed, or because I had very
limited exposure that I would not have to be quarantined
(16:13):
because everyone said that wasn't necessary. So it's it's both.
I mean, it's like, like you explain, it's the nature
of the exposure that you would have with someone, and
if they had symptoms themselves, um, what type of contact
you had with them, if you had physical contact with them. Um.
You know, one of the things we most worry about
our health care workers. You know, health care workers who
(16:34):
are our frontline workers. They have a different type of
contact with patients right there, touching them, They're very close
to them, they're spending a longer period of time with them, etcetera.
That's right, that's right, And so it's important that you
assess the risk based on that level of exposure that
you had. I know that a person can be infected,
(16:55):
but asymptomatic can the can the virus spread when someone
is asymptomatic before a diagnosis has taken place? And how
difficult has that been that the incubation period is so long.
So this is a very good question, and this is
a very important one. UM. We are working with all
of our member states to better understand three things. One,
(17:18):
when cases are reported, UM, are any of them reported
as being asymptomatic And what I mean by asymptomatic is
having no symptoms at all UM. And what we're finding
in some countries a small number of individuals are being
reported as asymptomatic UM. Most of those people are contexts
of known cases UM, and so the good the good
(17:42):
news there is that they've they've already been identified. Many
of them have either self isolated at home or are
in quarantine, and so they're already UM restricting their their
their contact with other people. Many of those asymptomatic people
do go on to develop symptoms. So having one that's
truly asymptomatic UM. Among the reported cases that we know
(18:04):
about is rare. UM. What we know from virus shedding studies,
and these are studies of looking at people where you
test them regularly, you take a sample from their nasal
swab or their throats. UM. We're looking at those individuals
before they develop symptoms, if there's any virus there, and
then after they develop symptoms. And what we know is
(18:27):
from some people, UM, they can shed virus, which means
they can they are shedding virus before they develop symptoms. UM.
So there is a theoretical risk. There's a possibility that
someone who is asymptomatic and transmit, but right now we
don't believe that that's a major driver of transmission because
we do not have many documented instances where someone who
(18:49):
is asymptomatic transmitted to other people. Do you think that
this will diminish as the weather gets warmer, Um, that's
a good question. I get that question quite a lot. UM.
The true answer is we don't know. UM. We have
no reason to believe that this virus will act differently
UM in different climates. You know, we're seeing cases being
(19:10):
popping up in different types of climates. UM. We have
a couple of cases in Africa. We've seen cases in Singapore.
We've seen some cases in Brazil, UM, and so we
want everyone to be ready and to be aggressive and
to assume that it will behave the same way. The
difference with with with not the virus, but there are
differences in the way people behave When the weather is nicer,
(19:31):
they spend more time outdoors as opposed to being indoors.
So we will have to see how this virus behaves
once the northern hemisphere winter ends. But remember the southern
hemisphere winter will begin. So UM, we want to make
sure everyone is acting as aggressively as possible to contain
this virus and to stop transmission. And I know you
have to go, you have such important work to do, Maria.
(19:52):
But could this surpass the flu in terms of the
mortality rate Because everyone keeps comparing the number of deaths
due to of flu versus this UM is it just
still early early stages. So mortality of of COVID nineteen
is higher than flu UM. From all of the information
that we have from across the country's um more people,
(20:16):
the mortality rate is higher than flu UM. What is
really important that from all the cases that we know
UM to date, eighty percent of them have experienced what
is more of a mild moderate disease which is not
require hospitalization, but about individuals will develop severe disease or
critical disease which will require some respiratory support UM and hospitalization,
(20:40):
perhaps ventilation, UM, and then a small proportion will have
died so far, UM. What we need people to understand
is that this is a serious disease. UM, that it
can cause severe disease and it can kill UM. And
so we hear a lot I hear a lot of Oh,
it's maybe just the flu, or it's just the add flu.
(21:00):
It's not that we need everybody to understand that maybe
even their own individual risk. Maybe you are young, maybe
you are healthier, in your family is healthy, and that's wonderful.
But if you prevent prevent yourself from getting infected, you
also prevent yourself from transmitting into somebody else who may
be part of a vulnerable population, somebody who may be older,
somebody who may have an underlying condition. And so that's
(21:22):
really important. Again, we all have a role to play here.
If we can minimize our own risk of infection, then
we can minimize that spread to vulnerable populations, and those
individuals have a higher chance of death. How do you
make people cautious but not so paralyzed with fear? And
I know you want people to take it seriously, but
(21:44):
you don't want mass panic and hysteria either. Absolutely not,
we don't. We just want people to be ready. UM.
We want people to be safe. We want people to
be smart. We want people to inform themselves with the
latest information. This situation is moving very rapidly. It's evolving quickly.
Every day we're learning something new. Keep up with us,
(22:06):
be patient with us, um as we learn information and
we share that with you. And and be kind to
one another, help each other out. Um. You know, there's
a lot of stigma, and there's a lot of negative
things that are happening. But on the other side, we
can see the best in people. You can help them out. UM.
If you have neighbors that can't get out themselves, help
(22:27):
them with the groceries, you know, offer offer some social support. Um.
Just be kind to one another. Um. Those are the
things we need people to do. Be ready, be safe,
be smart, and be kind. Well those are words to
live by. Corona or no corona, right, Dr Maria. Really,
I've loved being able to talk to you. Thank you
(22:49):
so much. That was Dr Maria van Kirkov, infectious disease
epidemiologist with the World Health Organization coming up. One Chinese
American man tells us what it was like to be
smack in the middle of the epidemic. You Len Yin
(23:15):
lives in Minnesota with his wife Anne, and their two daughters.
In January of this year, he was scheduled to travel
to Wuhan province in China, where he was born, for
New Year's celebrations with his family and friends. But as
he was getting ready, rumors began to emerge that there
was a mysterious illness in the region. You Lynn and
(23:35):
his family tried to find out more and I looked online.
That's really not a lot of information and my family
in Wohan did not mentioned at all about that. But
I was the nervous, so actually went to check with
uh knem Nick. I usually go to you just asked
(23:59):
them you've there any bacination for me? And then my
wife actually check to your just acts that there's something
called travel klinic, if there's anything that I should be
worried or is there anything we can do to be safe,
And at that time, there's really nothing so I said, okay,
I just need to be careful. So you land, said
(24:21):
goodbye to his family in Minneapolis, and boarded a plane
for Wuhan. He landed on January. I remember I was
at the luggage pickup. I've felt nervous definitely at that
time because everybody around me were wearing masks at that time,
(24:42):
and actually I it was the first time I saw
in twenty and nine masks. I kind of feel, oh,
that's a strange mask. I remember I saw it in myself.
So you has the needle evolved involve seeing in the front,
so actually like a breath, like a breathing thing. That's right,
(25:04):
that's my first time I saw it. I said, well,
that's really serious, serious equipment for people to wear. Maybe
the pneumonia is more serious than I thought. By January,
the Chinese government started to limit travel around Wuhan. No
one was allowed to leave, and public transit was also
shut down. For the first few days. I actually went
(25:27):
out with my family to go to different restaurants and
so that that that was the third day. I remember
I because I say, having jet legs. I woke up
at two o'clock in the morning and I got a
message from a friend in the United States. Actually he
he sent me attack saying, oh I heard wah is lockdown?
(25:51):
Is that true? So I said what? I was thinking,
what what? What do you mean lockdown? And then I
looking have your search on the social media to verify
the news, and then I found out there is a
notice somewhere business said or the traffic coming out of
(26:12):
Wahan locked down did not say anything coming in, so
you can stay, are coming in, but you cannot leave. Actually,
I remember it was not very clear at that time.
I was thinking, wow, so that there's no trend going out,
that there's no um, there's no flights. Can I still
(26:32):
go by car? Actually? I was thinking, should I wake
up my brother, you know, ask him to drive me
to Shanahai somewhere so I can go home. Just nearly confused.
At that time, it was not very clear, so it
didn't seem like the government was communicating what was going
on very well, and you were getting most of your
information from social media. You didn't know if you could
(26:55):
leave or if people could come in. You were kind
of in limpo. It's I was like that that is correct.
Just a lot of confusion. Were you worried at that point,
how you were gonna get the heck out of Dodge
and back to your family in Minnesota. Yeah, I was worried,
but at that time I was hopeful. I was thinking,
(27:18):
whi is the city of eleven million people. In my mind,
there's no way that the lockdown can last more than
say one or two weeks. So I was actually very hopeful.
My trip was three weeks. I was okay, just to
see how how you go. It may be the lockdown
(27:38):
may be lifted in a couple of weeks. That that
was my sinking at that time. Actually on January, when
you looked out the window, what did it look like outside? Yeah,
it was just quiet, very quiet, which is very unusual
for the place where I stay and my mom my
Mom's Countle. It's very is close to your street. That
(28:02):
street actually is one of the most congestive street in
when usually people tried to avoid it, so it's always
always a lot of traffic. But yeah, that day, or
even cover this before, it's just not many cars is empty.
It's very strange. I was almost felt like it's a
(28:23):
sci fi film, you know. The Actually I remember that
there's a film title code on the day when the
earth is still still I was thinking about that. By January,
just five days after you land landed in Wuhan, the
US government mandated evacuations of US personnel and citizens from
the region. At that time, I was surprised. Actually when
(28:46):
the first evacuation happened, Actually that's the time I started
to get really really over it. I said, I was thinking,
what what I did not know? Because the beginning as
a gonna just wait out for the lockdown to lift,
to be lifted. When when United States evacuated or the
(29:10):
or the councilor employees and the staff and the family member,
I got really verried. One heard the news um it
was it was said there's the only very limited seas
available for private citizens. So I tried to contact them,
but at that time was already full the flight so
(29:34):
had to wait, and there was not really worth about
a new evacuation plan at all. So I asked my
wife to start contacting people here in the United States.
So my wife contacted UM, the state the congressional representatives
(29:54):
from Minnesota, and they were very helpful. They talked to
your state department and they found out and there are
there were a new evacuation flights planned, but there's not
nothing in the news. But that's how I heard about it.
Then I got ragious on the State Department website and
(30:20):
there's there's there's some confusion confusion there to you. So
I registered in their website. I send an email to
one email address, and then the representatives they helped to
talk communicated with the State Department too. So that's how
I got on the list to be evacuated. See sometimes
(30:40):
the government works, right, I mean, thank goodness. And did
you feel guilty leaving your family in China? I understand
your parents lived, their cousins lived there. Did you feel bad, uh,
saying goodbye to them? That you have felt really bad?
When how did you leave? Um? Yeah, I it was
(31:02):
pretty tough, especially my parents are older and um but
there's a really not much I could do there to
even help them do worry about my job in the
United States to myself because it might have a family
here to rely on me. So but it was very
difficulty decision. Actually, I'm sure you were torn. Are your
(31:27):
parents doing okay? They are doing fine in terms of coronavirus,
they're okay. But my dad is older, so she actually
she he felt twice already since I left, and he
just couldn't get the care he needed for now. So
(31:51):
I'm very nervous about that. Still. Oh he couldn't get
Is that because all the doctors and the medical personnel
were focused STU people who were getting the coronavirus so
other things. Uh, we're not being prioritized that that is correct,
and also frankly, we don't want to go to hospital
(32:13):
at this time too. Right. I'm sure that was a concern,
particularly for older people. And if he has any underlying
health issues, well, good luck with him. I hope he's
doing Okay. Let me ask about you. Uh, on the
final leg of your journey, you're flying home on this massive,
unmarked cargo plane. Were people on the plane sick? Were
(32:36):
you nervous about being in such close proximity to people
who were heading out of the country that they might
be contagious? Yes, we're very nervous, and that that's the time. Actually,
I will mask the whole time, and the people are
really not talking to each other. There's not much socializing
(32:57):
at all. Pretty much everybody have to themselves. On February five,
you land landed in San Diego with the rest of
the evacuees contention upon getting the flight out of China
was a fourteen day quarantine on a US military base
where you land tried to settle into a new strange reality.
(33:19):
This was the the largest un quarantined since fifties. So
I don't think anybody was actually prepared. So um, even
I remember at the beginning the food was not enough, right,
like really, yeah, we didn't have enough food to eat.
(33:42):
That was the biggest complaint. And how we do laundry,
that was a big question. We felt like a kind
of like a refugees in a way because nobody really
packed a lot of stuff. So first of all, god,
there's oh, how do we do laundry? So they were
(34:02):
not prepared for that. It's so little things like that
and Ilso the protocol who should be who should be tested?
How you know how much restriction everybody should be getting
wasn't wasn't. What was clear was everyone tested. No, only
(34:28):
people with a fever got tested. I believe the whole
time we have uh nine people got tested I think,
and you never exhibited any symptoms. You never got sick.
I had need to be a cough. Um, So I
(34:50):
actually went to the medical tent two. I told him
I have need to be a cough. They checked me
and then they say they told me nothing to wor Bob.
But they did come back to me asked me to
stay home when we had one confirmed the case. So
they asked me to stay inside the room. Oh, one
(35:12):
confirmed case at the military base before that. So how
were you able to interact with the other people there?
Did they bring food to your room? Can you just
give us a little feel for your day to day
activities while you were at the base. We can move
quite freely on the CDC. They suggested not to wear masks.
(35:34):
They were saying, anybody who wants to wear a mask,
they can, but they do not recommend that. And we
we we were told just keep a social distance, which
is six ft away from each other. So the food
were delivered in a like in a hole in a
big lounge area. We we would pick up the food
(35:56):
and at beginning I would pick up the food and
go back to my room to eat it. And later
I found out a few people that are you're hanging
out around the area, so I would actually eat with them.
Just again keep social descent. That's when we can chat
Nibia with each other. We talk um. So every day
(36:18):
we have a daily meeting at the two o'clock just
to keep us updated and everything, the current virus itself
and also if anybody got sick in in our in
the current in site, and we do two times morning
(36:39):
and evening. We have to check our temperature. So that's
that's mandatory. And I was said that we really you know,
we can do pretty much anything we want, and we can.
We can go outside of the room and start jogging
in the yard. Um, you know, there's a great science.
(37:00):
So I have a lot more movement than when I
was in China. What was it like getting home to
your wife and two kids. You must have been so happy.
I was really Yes, I was really happy, and it
was very grateful. There are so many scenes I took
for granted in life that very a lot of small
(37:21):
things like driving my daughter to your school, even shoveling snow,
all those things just you know, it seems so far
away when I was quarantined. So actually what I feel like,
I finally can do normal things again. That was so great,
And I was really grateful for my wife. She worked
(37:41):
really hard to get me on the flight, and she
worked very hard to just to you know, make sure
my daughter feels nothing strange, you know, for the last
the whole months. So really grateful for that. And just
you know another thing too, I can find it huck
someone that's not a strange. There's no human touch during
(38:07):
the whole ordeal. So when I come home and actually
can't hug my wife, kiss my daughter, that was fel great.
Are you back at work? Has life returned to normal now? Well,
I'm back to work. I wouldn't say back to normal
because I really did not expect. And it became so
(38:32):
serious here now because I when I one him once,
I really said, when I was in quarantine, after quarantine,
everything what be normal? There's no you know, nobody even
talk about coronavirus anymore. I you really did not expect.
Many weeks after that we are talking about, you know,
(38:56):
lockdown in Italy or those very serious scene Right now,
there does seem to be um a lot of panic,
I think all across the country. And um, how is
it different from what you can tell the reaction here
in this country versus the reaction in China. I think
(39:17):
once in common is there's a mistrust in government. I
think that's truly, that's the same Chinese uh and American here.
I don't be id think they believe um the even
the official news they see. I think that's very the same.
(39:40):
The difference is um Chinese people, I really believe they
they will follow whatever the government tells them to do.
The even the magic is very drastic, like say do
not go outside, you have to wear a mask all
the time. Even they don't believe that, but they followed
(40:01):
that and they are hopeful that what turned out the
resulting out to be good. In the United States, I
believe from what I see on the Twitter or talking difference,
people already have a picture that how coronavirus should be
dealt with, how how what was the responsible should be like.
(40:22):
So if the garment or the media's does not respond
the way they wanted, they're just not ready to accept that.
Other than realizing you shouldn't take for granted certain things
like a shower, hugging your wife, or taking your daughter
to school. What have you learned from this whole experience?
What I learned is that the information, trusting information is
(40:46):
so important. There are so much misinformation flying flying around
on Twitter and even in the news. You have to
we have to be very, very careful to check the source.
And I thing I learned is listened to the experts.
I'm not experting embarrassed, so I try to find experts
(41:07):
I can trust, so I try to listen to them. Ellen,
thank you so much for talking with us about your experience.
We really really appreciate it. And stay safe, stay healthy,
and and many many thanks. Thank you for me. Thank
you so much. When we come back trying to find
(41:35):
answers to some of your burning questions about the COVID
nineteen outbreak. I understand a lot of you out there
(41:58):
are worried about COVID Night Team, and I understand why.
It's a lot of information to take in. We want
to answer some of the questions you sent to me
via social media. So the good news is the doctor
is in. Dr Shaffner. Hey, it's Katie Kuric. Thank you.
Dr Schaffner. Dr Bill Shaffner is the medical director of
(42:22):
the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases and a professor at Vanderbilt. Okay,
let me go ahead and go through these questions, Dr Shaffner,
because you've been so nice. K Jersey Kids asked, when
do you predict or when do the authorities predict the
virus will peak in the US. Wait a minute, you
(42:42):
didn't tell me I had to have my crystal ball here. Uh.
We hope, we hope that since it's a respiratory virus,
and respiratory viruses like influenza, as we all know, they
abate come March and April into a maybe this coronavirus
will have read the textbook and does the same thing.
(43:07):
But we don't think that will mean even if it
does that, that it will go away completely. One of
the things that could do is go south of the
equator because as we start having summer, they start having winter,
and so could it be that in Australia, New Zealand,
Southern Africa, and in South America they're due for this
(43:29):
coronavirus and then could its cycle back our next winter.
Maybe all the more reason to keep research going on
that vaccine, because if it does persist or come back,
we'll need that vaccine down the road. We're hearing, by
the way, speaking of that, that the vaccine is going
to take a year, year two, a year and a
(43:51):
half to be developed. Is that what you're hearing as well? Yep, yep, yep,
And let's all take a deep breath about that. You
you want people to hurry up, but not rush. Nobody
wants to start delivering an unsafe or an ineffective vaccine
to our population. We want to be sure we're doing
(44:14):
it right. Let's give them a little time. Science can't
be rushed. Jen Scoville asked, should we be pausing personal travel? Well, Jen,
I would ask, if I may ask a personal question,
are you older than sixty? Do you have one of
those underlying illnesses? Because if you do, I would ask
(44:36):
you to think twice about how essential that trip is
right now, and if it's not all that essential, postpone it.
And as Dr Tony Facci has said from the n
I h don't even think about going on a cruise.
I know, really, squid six, these are funny handles. Am
I crazy to want to continue going to work out classes?
(45:00):
I don't think you are. I think at any age
you can go to a workout class that's not really
a close, intense environment where you get face to face
with people, take some wipes along perhaps your gym probably
has them, and wipe off the seats and your bar
bells and things like that before you use them. And
(45:23):
after you use them, because that will make them more
friendly to others. Uh, gentle, good exercise, good for the body.
Alison wants to know how could a person tell the
difference between corona symptoms and cold symptoms. That's pretty easy.
I thought you was going to ask me the harder question,
(45:43):
how you how can you distinguish it from flu? We'll
do that as a follow up. Yea so cold, think
of from the neck up, sore throat, stuffy knows, feeling
kind of punk. Maybe your eyes get a little bit red,
maybe a little bit of fever. Not so bad. Coronavirus
(46:04):
and flu, who are they're indistinguishable, will get down into
your chest pretty quickly, cause irritation of your bronchial tubes
and a cough, a kind of a dry cough. And
then both of those viruses can make you more sick
by having you feel really punk, losing your appetite. Some
(46:25):
people get abdominal pain and diarrhea. And then, of course,
as we move along the more serious part of the
spectrum of illness, if that virus gets out into your lungs,
the coronavirus, it can cause pneumonia, and if that's bad enough,
you'll have difficulty breathing. By that time, you will have
called your healthcare provider or shown up in the emergency room.
(46:48):
When someone has a mild case and doesn't need hospitalization.
What kind of medicines are most effective for dealing with this?
Is it sort of common sense? Like syrup and plenty
of fluids, chicken soup, that kind of thing, Adville thailand All.
I mean, what are you recommending when people actually do
(47:09):
test positively for this? That's perfect, You've just written the prescription.
I could be a doctor, why not? So stay away
from folks, and if your home, keep up your fluids.
Chicken soup is wonderful. Uh. Coffee and alcoholic beverages don't
(47:31):
count because they tend to be diuretics. They tend to
draw you out, actually right, they they're very dehydrating. Yes,
so they don't count. Uh. Plain water works just fine
and sure for relief of symptoms. Uh, an aspirin or
anything like that, A thailand All will certainly help. Should
(47:54):
pregnant women worry, that's one question we got at the moment.
I haven't seen any data to suggest that coronavirus infection
in a woman can affect her baby, but it has
not been well studied, and I'm sure there are physicians
in China who have had experience with this who are
(48:16):
going to tell us of their experience. So I'm going
to put that one off on the side. But in
terms of worry, I think you're like a normal person,
except you're a bit immuno suppressed. Uh. That's a natural
condition in pregnancy, and so take special care to avoid
people who are coughing and sneezing. Wash those hands. And
(48:39):
it's not a good time to travel when if you
do believe you have coronavirus, either you've been diagnosed or
you just feel like you have a Hopefully you you'll
call your doctor if you feel like you you have it.
Um At what point is it safe to go out
in the world again. It's safe to go out in
the world again when you're feeling better and your fever
(49:02):
is all gone. And that's the general recommendation we make
for influenza, and it would apply to the coronavirus also. Well,
I know you have other patients you need to talk to.
Dr Bill Shaffner. Thank you so much for spending some
time answering these questions. What a pleasure, Katie. Good to
be with you and call any time with more of
(49:26):
those very interesting questions, and I'll take another one of
your pop quizes. Okay, Dr Shaffner, thank you so much. Sure, bye,
bye bye. That was Dr Bill Shaffner of the National
Foundation for Infectious Diseases. And before we go, I want
to return to Dr Maria van Kirkov for some tips
(49:48):
and words of advice. Pay attention to what CDC is
saying and what government websites are saying. You can always
come to W H O, DOT, I N T and
see you know the information that we have. But the basics,
these fundamentals of hand washing, of respiratory etiquette. What we
mean by that is making sure you sneeze into your
elbow or sneeze into a tissue, UM, and put it
(50:11):
in a closed bin, and then wash your hands. Practice
social distancing, keep three feet away from people, especially people
who are are are sick. Um. These things are very
simple to do and everyone can do them, from your
grandmother to your children, UM. And these are things that
we want everybody to know and practice inner daily life.
(50:34):
That's it for this episode of Next Question. We really
hope it's given you some important information and put you
at ease at least a little bit as the story
of the outbreak continue to evolve. You can find the
most updated information and recommendations at CDC dot gov and
the World Health Organization at w h OH dot I
(50:56):
n T will also be updating my newsletter Wake Up
Call with the latest articles and information, and by the way,
you can subscribe to that at Katie Currek dot com.
Stay healthy out there, Everyone, wash your hands for twenty
seconds or just sing Happy Birthday twice. Until next time
and my Next Question, I'm Katie Couric. Thanks so much
(51:18):
for listening. Next Question with Katie Couric is a production
of I Heart Radio and Katie Currik Media. The executive
producers are Katie Currik, Courtney Litz, and Tyler Klang. The
supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our show producer is Bethan Macaluso.
The associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clements. Editing
(51:40):
by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagan and Lowell Berlante, Mixing by
Dylan Fagan. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser. For more information
on today's episode, go to Katie Currek dot com and
follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie Kurik. For
(52:00):
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic, and welcome to Next Question Today.
Now to growing concerns about the deadly coronavirus officially hitting
the US. Los Angeles County, where ten million people live,
has declared a public health emergency. In Washington State, they
are confirming now the first US death. There is a
(00:20):
confirmed case here in New York City. Coronavirus is now
in the nation's capital, Texas, Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts. What
began as a distant and mysterious illness in China at
the end of twenty nineteen has made its way around
the world and is now spreading across the US. As
of this recording, the majority of states have confirmed cases
(00:43):
of coronavirus that range from a few to hundreds. Here
in New York City, where I live, there at least
thirty six confirmed cases, and Mayor Bill de Blasio says
they're coming in intensely. Just this week, I had my
own brush with the virus, which is now officially called
COVID nineteen. On Saturday, March seven, I ran into an
(01:06):
old friend, Rick Cotton, who's the head of the New
York and New Jersey Port Authority. Two days later news
broke that he had tested positive for COVID nineteen. We
only had seen each other on the street very briefly
and didn't have any physical contact, but still, in this climate,
you can never be too careful. After I heard the news,
(01:26):
I immediately went home and called the c d C.
I also called the New York State Department of Health
and spoke to my own doctor as well. In addition
to them, I spoke to the first guest on this podcast.
They all assured me I was at very low risk
for contracting COVID nineteen and there was no need to
self quarantine. So I'll continue to take the same precautions
(01:50):
as you are, hopefully washing my hands, staying away from
large crowds, and monitoring my symptoms. But all of this
leads me to my next question, what is coronavirus and
how can we protect ourselves and our loved ones. To
understand more about COVID nineteen, I called up someone who's
(02:12):
working on the front lines of this outbreak. Hi Maria, Hi,
how are you to be there? So nice to hear
your voice, you too. Dr Maria van Kirkhove is ahead
of the Outbreak Investigation Task Force for the World Health Organization.
She lives in Switzerland, but she traveled to China just
a few weeks ago to study the virus. How would
(02:34):
you assess the current situation with an understanding that it
seems to change almost by the hour. Yes, so this
is an evolving situation, you know. So this is this
is an outbreak that began in December UM with a
cluster of patients with pneumonia UM in Wuhan, China, and
then it has spread to other parts of China. UM
(02:57):
over the course of the month. In January, there were
case says that were being detected in other parts of
the world, mainly in Asia to begin with, but also
in other countries. And this started with a travel link. UM.
And this is we we we found cases that were
identified in a number of countries, and the outbreak has
grown since then. UM. What is interesting is that this
(03:18):
is a new virus. UM. Very early on, the first
cases were alerted to US in late December early January,
but within a week, within one week, the Chinese authorities
were able to identify that this was a new pathogen.
This was a novel coronavirus. That's where that word comes from. UM.
And that and that's very important. So they were able
(03:40):
to identify that within a week using full genome sequencing,
was looking at the parts of the virus itself UM,
and in finding that new virus, they were able to
share that with the world and say, this is a
novel pathogen. Here's the sequence, which they made publicly available,
and that allowed countries all over the world to develop
(04:02):
PCR tests for laboratory detection tests so that they could
start looking for that virus. What exactly is a pathogen? Ah,
so the pathogen that we we normally call these pathogenes
either viruses or bacteria. This new pathogen happens to be
a virus. I lead a group on emerging diseases and zoonoses,
(04:24):
and most of the new viruses that we find come
from animals and they they spill over from an animal
to human, and we were constantly on the lookout for
new pathogens, new viruses that are infecting humans. Let's talk
about this one. What animal was responsible for the coronavirus?
As of today, we don't know, UM, but there's a
(04:47):
lot of investigations right now that are looking for what
was the animal source of this outbreak? UM. This is
a coronavirus, and we know that coronaviruses have a link
back to bats um. Most viruses, most viruses come from baths,
but coronaviruses come from baths initially. But what we think
happened here is that there was another animal, or what
(05:08):
we call an intermediary host, that animal was infected, and
that animal was responsible for infecting humans. There's a lot
of investigations underway in animal markets because some of the
initial cases in December UM had reported a link to
one particular market, and so that gave us a clue
that there could be an animal force. Tell us about
(05:31):
how contagious this is compared to other pathogens you've just
you've studied. So this is this This virus causes a
respiratory disease, and so people who get sick have respiratory symptoms.
And the way that it's transmitted between people is through
droplets um, which means if you cough or if you
sneeze on somebody, you are releasing some of these droplets
(05:55):
from your mouth, these little droplets of fluid, and those
droplets can go into the eye, his nose, and mouth
of someone else if they're in close distance to you.
Not in the air, but in they're actually in there
within three feet of you or so UM and so
if you're common contact with an infected person UM, you
could potentially be infected by them. And what we know
(06:16):
about this virus is that for every person who's infected,
on average, they infect two to two and a half
more people, and that means that you have the possibility
for this outpret to take off. What's important to know
here is that um it's a new virus, which means
everyone is susceptible UM and so what we're trying to
(06:37):
do with all of the information that we put out
is to try to tell individuals what they can do
to protect themselves from being infected. So everyone is susceptible
because nobody has built up the immunities to prevent them
from getting this virus. Having said that, um it doesn't
seem as dangerous for young children as far as everything
(07:00):
I've read, um and it's much more dangerous for either
older people or those who have compromised immune systems. Is
that accurate? Yes, that's right. What we know from initial
data is yes, indeed, young children seem to not be
infected as much UM or develop severe disease. So most
(07:21):
of the children that we are learning about that are
infected UM have a mild disease. We do know that
people of older ages over sixty seventy eight years old UH,
and people who have underlying conditions like cardiovascular disease, diabetes,
chronic respiratory diseases have a higher risk of severe disease
(07:43):
and death. You mentioned how it can be transferred from
human to human. A lot of people are also concerned,
Marie about how long it stays on surfaces. UM, what
are you learning about that? So we are learning that
this virus can stay on surfaces. So one of the
ways that it gets on surfaces is if you cough
(08:04):
or if you sneeze, These droplets come out of your
mouth and they move some distance from you and then
they settle down on surfaces UM, you know, like a tabletop,
UM or a door knob for example. But they can
be killed by disinfectants. So it's very important that surfaces
are clean regularly with the chlorine bleach for example, UM,
and then you can remove the virus from those surfaces.
(08:27):
And what are you learning about the lifespan? Because I've
heard everything from a few hours to several weeks in general,
it's a few hours. I mean, well, it could be
a few hours. I should qualify what that means. It
doesn't mean one or two hours. It could be up
to a day or two. That's still hours. But that
sounds like a really long time, doesn't it. I think, Katie,
(08:47):
what's important is for people to know that they have
some control over this. You know that they can um
protect themselves, they can protect their families in a simple way.
Is is regularly disinfecting your word space. You know, if
you look at your keyboard and you look at your
phone surface, making sure that that's clean, making sure your
handlebars are are cleaned a few times per day, making
(09:09):
sure you wash your hands. I mean, I know what
people must be so tired of us saying this, but
washing your hands with soap and water is a lifesaver,
not just for COVID nineteen but for many things. And
if you can't wash your hands, making sure you use
an alcohol rub well. You know you mentioned and I
noticed that things that are are cleansers are Purel. Sorry
(09:30):
to use a brand name, but they're antibacterial. And if
this is a virus, how does Purel protect you from
from it? If it's in fact antibacterial. Well there are
with the alcohol that's in these alcohol rubs, Um, you
are removing that virus from from your hands. I mean,
the best thing for you to do is wash your
(09:50):
hands with soap and water and make sure you follow
the steps and you get all of the surfaces of
your hands and you can remove those viruses from your hands.
But the alcohol rubbed alcohol has to be six or
above alcohol and that will remove that virus from the
from your hands. You were very kind to talk to
me after I realized I had a sixty to ninety
(10:14):
second conversation with someone who was later diagnosed with coronavirus
and was probably about three feet away, didn't touch and
basically just had a casual conversation. Can you please direct
some of what you would say to people who are
panicked that I actually, you know, was talking to somebody
(10:38):
who was later diagnosed with coronavirus who at the time
was it was asymptomatic. Yeah. So, so, first of all,
it's it's important to acknowledge that people are scared. You know,
there's a lot of information that's out there, UM, some
of it is accurate, much of it is inaccurate, UM,
(10:58):
And people are scared. It's a new dis ease, it's
a new virus UM, it's spreading around the world, and
people people can be quite fearful of that. What's important
for us to understand is, you know, why are people scared?
What is it that makes them scared? To try to
address some of those UM. The thing that you you've
mentioned is you you've indicated the type of exposure that
(11:19):
you may have had or you did have with this individual.
Knowing what the risk is UM is really important. So
you've indicated you know, the person was asymptomatic, you were
more than three feet away. It was a very it
was a very short encounter. You know. Putting all that
into context, what's important for everyone to do is to
(11:40):
assess their own risks. You know, look at what their
exposure was, UM, what their potential exposure was, because most
of the times it's even potential exposure is not actually
real exposure to the virus. And then there's certain things
you need to take into consideration. What is your age,
what are your underlying conditions? UM? And then what do
I do? So if you are concerned, what should I do? UM?
(12:03):
And I think it's important that people know that they
can contact their local health authorities UM Departments of Health. UM.
You know within the US you have the U s C,
d C. There are hotlines that you can call. You
can call your own GP and ask the questions that
here's here's my concern, here's my potential risk. What should
I do? We need people to know what they can do.
(12:26):
And what is different about this virus compared to flu
is that containment is not possible with influenza, but containment
is possible with this coronavirus. And the reason we can
say that is because we've seen such incredible efforts by
a number of countries, including China UM that have really
showed us that transmission can be reduced, case numbers can
(12:49):
go down, and in many parts of China they have
their zero reporting cases. So what are they doing right?
They have their entire population mobilized to against this. Every
single person in the population knows what they can do
in terms of these three things I mentioned, handwashing, respiratory etiquette,
social distancing. UM. They're Chinese authorities and other countries. Is
(13:12):
not just China that has shown us. Singapore is another
good example. UM. They've shown that if you identify all
of your cases and all of your contacts UM, and
that they're isolated so that that you remove them from
transmitting to other people, UM care for them, making sure
they get appropriate clinical care, making sure that they're communicated
with and so that they know what their risk is,
(13:33):
and and and by keeping them either in quarantine or isolation,
that they're they're performing a public health good. There's been
a lot of suspension of public gatherings UM, and there's
been some movement restrictions in several temporary movement restrictions in
many cities across China, and so all of those that
combination of of UM efforts has has driven down transmission UM.
(13:58):
In some situations has been quite dream and we've seen
that in Wuhan where we've seen a total lockdown of
some cities, and you're hearing about some of this happening
in Italy as well. But that restriction of movements of
individuals prevents the spread UM of the viruses. So what
we're doing for all countries, Katie, is we're talking to
all of governments UM and saying the more aggressive action
(14:21):
you have early on, the better chances you have to
stop the outbreaks of starting UM. And we have evidence
that this works in several countries and we want to
see that happen in the rest of the world. So
you mentioned UH self quarantine or quarantining populations. When should
self quarantine or any kind of quarantine be put into effect?
(14:44):
Who makes recommendations on this? But it's up to national
governments to implements, and different governments have implemented different measures
in this respect, so it's important to follow the national
guidance of what each country recommends. UM. What you did
in a perfect example of this is that you had
an exposure and you went home and you self isolated
(15:05):
or you self quarantine. You went home and that was
a good measure before you and then you made those
phone calls to say, okay, what is my risk UM?
What we recommend It depends on the type of exposure
you have. If you're a contact of a known case UM,
then we recommend a quarantining of that individual so that
there's no chance of them passing it on to another individual.
(15:26):
They're monitored for fourteen days, which is the incubation period,
which is the time from UM infection to the development
of symptoms UM, so that for over those fourteen days,
people are monitored and they're checked for symptoms to make
sure if they have any fever or if they have
any respiratory symptoms, and then tested. If we do that,
if we actually find all of the cases, find all
(15:49):
of the context, and we we can by doing that,
we can actually stop transmission from from happening. We can
stop human to human transmission from happening. So, not to
make it all about me, but I did have contact
with a known case, was it Maria because it was
before the diagnosis was confirmed, or because I had very
limited exposure that I would not have to be quarantined
(16:13):
because everyone said that wasn't necessary. So it's it's both.
I mean, it's like, like you explain, it's the nature
of the exposure that you would have with someone, and
if they had symptoms themselves, um, what type of contact
you had with them, if you had physical contact with them. Um.
You know, one of the things we most worry about
our health care workers. You know, health care workers who
(16:34):
are our frontline workers. They have a different type of
contact with patients right there, touching them, They're very close
to them, they're spending a longer period of time with them, etcetera.
That's right, that's right, And so it's important that you
assess the risk based on that level of exposure that
you had. I know that a person can be infected,
(16:55):
but asymptomatic can the can the virus spread when someone
is asymptomatic before a diagnosis has taken place? And how
difficult has that been that the incubation period is so long.
So this is a very good question, and this is
a very important one. UM. We are working with all
of our member states to better understand three things. One,
(17:18):
when cases are reported, UM, are any of them reported
as being asymptomatic And what I mean by asymptomatic is
having no symptoms at all UM. And what we're finding
in some countries a small number of individuals are being
reported as asymptomatic UM. Most of those people are contexts
of known cases UM, and so the good the good
(17:42):
news there is that they've they've already been identified. Many
of them have either self isolated at home or are
in quarantine, and so they're already UM restricting their their
their contact with other people. Many of those asymptomatic people
do go on to develop symptoms. So having one that's
truly asymptomatic UM. Among the reported cases that we know
(18:04):
about is rare. UM. What we know from virus shedding studies,
and these are studies of looking at people where you
test them regularly, you take a sample from their nasal
swab or their throats. UM. We're looking at those individuals
before they develop symptoms, if there's any virus there, and
then after they develop symptoms. And what we know is
(18:27):
from some people, UM, they can shed virus, which means
they can they are shedding virus before they develop symptoms. UM.
So there is a theoretical risk. There's a possibility that
someone who is asymptomatic and transmit, but right now we
don't believe that that's a major driver of transmission because
we do not have many documented instances where someone who
(18:49):
is asymptomatic transmitted to other people. Do you think that
this will diminish as the weather gets warmer, Um, that's
a good question. I get that question quite a lot. UM.
The true answer is we don't know. UM. We have
no reason to believe that this virus will act differently
UM in different climates. You know, we're seeing cases being
(19:10):
popping up in different types of climates. UM. We have
a couple of cases in Africa. We've seen cases in Singapore.
We've seen some cases in Brazil, UM, and so we
want everyone to be ready and to be aggressive and
to assume that it will behave the same way. The
difference with with with not the virus, but there are
differences in the way people behave When the weather is nicer,
(19:31):
they spend more time outdoors as opposed to being indoors.
So we will have to see how this virus behaves
once the northern hemisphere winter ends. But remember the southern
hemisphere winter will begin. So UM, we want to make
sure everyone is acting as aggressively as possible to contain
this virus and to stop transmission. And I know you
have to go, you have such important work to do, Maria.
(19:52):
But could this surpass the flu in terms of the
mortality rate Because everyone keeps comparing the number of deaths
due to of flu versus this UM is it just
still early early stages. So mortality of of COVID nineteen
is higher than flu UM. From all of the information
that we have from across the country's um more people,
(20:16):
the mortality rate is higher than flu UM. What is
really important that from all the cases that we know
UM to date, eighty percent of them have experienced what
is more of a mild moderate disease which is not
require hospitalization, but about individuals will develop severe disease or
critical disease which will require some respiratory support UM and hospitalization,
(20:40):
perhaps ventilation, UM, and then a small proportion will have
died so far, UM. What we need people to understand
is that this is a serious disease. UM, that it
can cause severe disease and it can kill UM. And
so we hear a lot I hear a lot of Oh,
it's maybe just the flu, or it's just the add flu.
(21:00):
It's not that we need everybody to understand that maybe
even their own individual risk. Maybe you are young, maybe
you are healthier, in your family is healthy, and that's wonderful.
But if you prevent prevent yourself from getting infected, you
also prevent yourself from transmitting into somebody else who may
be part of a vulnerable population, somebody who may be older,
somebody who may have an underlying condition. And so that's
(21:22):
really important. Again, we all have a role to play here.
If we can minimize our own risk of infection, then
we can minimize that spread to vulnerable populations, and those
individuals have a higher chance of death. How do you
make people cautious but not so paralyzed with fear? And
I know you want people to take it seriously, but
(21:44):
you don't want mass panic and hysteria either. Absolutely not,
we don't. We just want people to be ready. UM.
We want people to be safe. We want people to
be smart. We want people to inform themselves with the
latest information. This situation is moving very rapidly. It's evolving quickly.
Every day we're learning something new. Keep up with us,
(22:06):
be patient with us, um as we learn information and
we share that with you. And and be kind to
one another, help each other out. Um. You know, there's
a lot of stigma, and there's a lot of negative
things that are happening. But on the other side, we
can see the best in people. You can help them out. UM.
If you have neighbors that can't get out themselves, help
(22:27):
them with the groceries, you know, offer offer some social support. Um.
Just be kind to one another. Um. Those are the
things we need people to do. Be ready, be safe,
be smart, and be kind. Well those are words to
live by. Corona or no corona, right, Dr Maria. Really,
I've loved being able to talk to you. Thank you
(22:49):
so much. That was Dr Maria van Kirkov, infectious disease
epidemiologist with the World Health Organization coming up. One Chinese
American man tells us what it was like to be
smack in the middle of the epidemic. You Len Yin
(23:15):
lives in Minnesota with his wife Anne, and their two daughters.
In January of this year, he was scheduled to travel
to Wuhan province in China, where he was born, for
New Year's celebrations with his family and friends. But as
he was getting ready, rumors began to emerge that there
was a mysterious illness in the region. You Lynn and
(23:35):
his family tried to find out more and I looked online.
That's really not a lot of information and my family
in Wohan did not mentioned at all about that. But
I was the nervous, so actually went to check with
uh knem Nick. I usually go to you just asked
(23:59):
them you've there any bacination for me? And then my
wife actually check to your just acts that there's something
called travel klinic, if there's anything that I should be
worried or is there anything we can do to be safe,
And at that time, there's really nothing so I said, okay,
I just need to be careful. So you land, said
(24:21):
goodbye to his family in Minneapolis, and boarded a plane
for Wuhan. He landed on January. I remember I was
at the luggage pickup. I've felt nervous definitely at that
time because everybody around me were wearing masks at that time,
(24:42):
and actually I it was the first time I saw
in twenty and nine masks. I kind of feel, oh,
that's a strange mask. I remember I saw it in myself.
So you has the needle evolved involve seeing in the front,
so actually like a breath, like a breathing thing. That's right,
(25:04):
that's my first time I saw it. I said, well,
that's really serious, serious equipment for people to wear. Maybe
the pneumonia is more serious than I thought. By January,
the Chinese government started to limit travel around Wuhan. No
one was allowed to leave, and public transit was also
shut down. For the first few days. I actually went
(25:27):
out with my family to go to different restaurants and
so that that that was the third day. I remember
I because I say, having jet legs. I woke up
at two o'clock in the morning and I got a
message from a friend in the United States. Actually he
he sent me attack saying, oh I heard wah is lockdown?
(25:51):
Is that true? So I said what? I was thinking,
what what? What do you mean lockdown? And then I
looking have your search on the social media to verify
the news, and then I found out there is a
notice somewhere business said or the traffic coming out of
(26:12):
Wahan locked down did not say anything coming in, so
you can stay, are coming in, but you cannot leave. Actually,
I remember it was not very clear at that time.
I was thinking, wow, so that there's no trend going out,
that there's no um, there's no flights. Can I still
(26:32):
go by car? Actually? I was thinking, should I wake
up my brother, you know, ask him to drive me
to Shanahai somewhere so I can go home. Just nearly confused.
At that time, it was not very clear, so it
didn't seem like the government was communicating what was going
on very well, and you were getting most of your
information from social media. You didn't know if you could
(26:55):
leave or if people could come in. You were kind
of in limpo. It's I was like that that is correct.
Just a lot of confusion. Were you worried at that point,
how you were gonna get the heck out of Dodge
and back to your family in Minnesota. Yeah, I was worried,
but at that time I was hopeful. I was thinking,
(27:18):
whi is the city of eleven million people. In my mind,
there's no way that the lockdown can last more than
say one or two weeks. So I was actually very hopeful.
My trip was three weeks. I was okay, just to
see how how you go. It may be the lockdown
(27:38):
may be lifted in a couple of weeks. That that
was my sinking at that time. Actually on January, when
you looked out the window, what did it look like outside? Yeah,
it was just quiet, very quiet, which is very unusual
for the place where I stay and my mom my
Mom's Countle. It's very is close to your street. That
(28:02):
street actually is one of the most congestive street in
when usually people tried to avoid it, so it's always
always a lot of traffic. But yeah, that day, or
even cover this before, it's just not many cars is empty.
It's very strange. I was almost felt like it's a
(28:23):
sci fi film, you know. The Actually I remember that
there's a film title code on the day when the
earth is still still I was thinking about that. By January,
just five days after you land landed in Wuhan, the
US government mandated evacuations of US personnel and citizens from
the region. At that time, I was surprised. Actually when
(28:46):
the first evacuation happened, Actually that's the time I started
to get really really over it. I said, I was thinking,
what what I did not know? Because the beginning as
a gonna just wait out for the lockdown to lift,
to be lifted. When when United States evacuated or the
(29:10):
or the councilor employees and the staff and the family member,
I got really verried. One heard the news um it
was it was said there's the only very limited seas
available for private citizens. So I tried to contact them,
but at that time was already full the flight so
(29:34):
had to wait, and there was not really worth about
a new evacuation plan at all. So I asked my
wife to start contacting people here in the United States.
So my wife contacted UM, the state the congressional representatives
(29:54):
from Minnesota, and they were very helpful. They talked to
your state department and they found out and there are
there were a new evacuation flights planned, but there's not
nothing in the news. But that's how I heard about it.
Then I got ragious on the State Department website and
(30:20):
there's there's there's some confusion confusion there to you. So
I registered in their website. I send an email to
one email address, and then the representatives they helped to
talk communicated with the State Department too. So that's how
I got on the list to be evacuated. See sometimes
(30:40):
the government works, right, I mean, thank goodness. And did
you feel guilty leaving your family in China? I understand
your parents lived, their cousins lived there. Did you feel bad, uh,
saying goodbye to them? That you have felt really bad?
When how did you leave? Um? Yeah, I it was
(31:02):
pretty tough, especially my parents are older and um but
there's a really not much I could do there to
even help them do worry about my job in the
United States to myself because it might have a family
here to rely on me. So but it was very
difficulty decision. Actually, I'm sure you were torn. Are your
(31:27):
parents doing okay? They are doing fine in terms of coronavirus,
they're okay. But my dad is older, so she actually
she he felt twice already since I left, and he
just couldn't get the care he needed for now. So
(31:51):
I'm very nervous about that. Still. Oh he couldn't get
Is that because all the doctors and the medical personnel
were focused STU people who were getting the coronavirus so
other things. Uh, we're not being prioritized that that is correct,
and also frankly, we don't want to go to hospital
(32:13):
at this time too. Right. I'm sure that was a concern,
particularly for older people. And if he has any underlying
health issues, well, good luck with him. I hope he's
doing Okay. Let me ask about you. Uh, on the
final leg of your journey, you're flying home on this massive,
unmarked cargo plane. Were people on the plane sick? Were
(32:36):
you nervous about being in such close proximity to people
who were heading out of the country that they might
be contagious? Yes, we're very nervous, and that that's the time. Actually,
I will mask the whole time, and the people are
really not talking to each other. There's not much socializing
(32:57):
at all. Pretty much everybody have to themselves. On February five,
you land landed in San Diego with the rest of
the evacuees contention upon getting the flight out of China
was a fourteen day quarantine on a US military base
where you land tried to settle into a new strange reality.
(33:19):
This was the the largest un quarantined since fifties. So
I don't think anybody was actually prepared. So um, even
I remember at the beginning the food was not enough, right,
like really, yeah, we didn't have enough food to eat.
(33:42):
That was the biggest complaint. And how we do laundry,
that was a big question. We felt like a kind
of like a refugees in a way because nobody really
packed a lot of stuff. So first of all, god,
there's oh, how do we do laundry? So they were
(34:02):
not prepared for that. It's so little things like that
and Ilso the protocol who should be who should be tested?
How you know how much restriction everybody should be getting
wasn't wasn't. What was clear was everyone tested. No, only
(34:28):
people with a fever got tested. I believe the whole
time we have uh nine people got tested I think,
and you never exhibited any symptoms. You never got sick.
I had need to be a cough. Um, So I
(34:50):
actually went to the medical tent two. I told him
I have need to be a cough. They checked me
and then they say they told me nothing to wor Bob.
But they did come back to me asked me to
stay home when we had one confirmed the case. So
they asked me to stay inside the room. Oh, one
(35:12):
confirmed case at the military base before that. So how
were you able to interact with the other people there?
Did they bring food to your room? Can you just
give us a little feel for your day to day
activities while you were at the base. We can move
quite freely on the CDC. They suggested not to wear masks.
(35:34):
They were saying, anybody who wants to wear a mask,
they can, but they do not recommend that. And we
we we were told just keep a social distance, which
is six ft away from each other. So the food
were delivered in a like in a hole in a
big lounge area. We we would pick up the food
(35:56):
and at beginning I would pick up the food and
go back to my room to eat it. And later
I found out a few people that are you're hanging
out around the area, so I would actually eat with them.
Just again keep social descent. That's when we can chat
Nibia with each other. We talk um. So every day
(36:18):
we have a daily meeting at the two o'clock just
to keep us updated and everything, the current virus itself
and also if anybody got sick in in our in
the current in site, and we do two times morning
(36:39):
and evening. We have to check our temperature. So that's
that's mandatory. And I was said that we really you know,
we can do pretty much anything we want, and we can.
We can go outside of the room and start jogging
in the yard. Um, you know, there's a great science.
(37:00):
So I have a lot more movement than when I
was in China. What was it like getting home to
your wife and two kids. You must have been so happy.
I was really Yes, I was really happy, and it
was very grateful. There are so many scenes I took
for granted in life that very a lot of small
(37:21):
things like driving my daughter to your school, even shoveling snow,
all those things just you know, it seems so far
away when I was quarantined. So actually what I feel like,
I finally can do normal things again. That was so great,
And I was really grateful for my wife. She worked
(37:41):
really hard to get me on the flight, and she
worked very hard to just to you know, make sure
my daughter feels nothing strange, you know, for the last
the whole months. So really grateful for that. And just
you know another thing too, I can find it huck
someone that's not a strange. There's no human touch during
(38:07):
the whole ordeal. So when I come home and actually
can't hug my wife, kiss my daughter, that was fel great.
Are you back at work? Has life returned to normal now? Well,
I'm back to work. I wouldn't say back to normal
because I really did not expect. And it became so
(38:32):
serious here now because I when I one him once,
I really said, when I was in quarantine, after quarantine,
everything what be normal? There's no you know, nobody even
talk about coronavirus anymore. I you really did not expect.
Many weeks after that we are talking about, you know,
(38:56):
lockdown in Italy or those very serious scene Right now,
there does seem to be um a lot of panic,
I think all across the country. And um, how is
it different from what you can tell the reaction here
in this country versus the reaction in China. I think
(39:17):
once in common is there's a mistrust in government. I
think that's truly, that's the same Chinese uh and American here.
I don't be id think they believe um the even
the official news they see. I think that's very the same.
(39:40):
The difference is um Chinese people, I really believe they
they will follow whatever the government tells them to do.
The even the magic is very drastic, like say do
not go outside, you have to wear a mask all
the time. Even they don't believe that, but they followed
(40:01):
that and they are hopeful that what turned out the
resulting out to be good. In the United States, I
believe from what I see on the Twitter or talking difference,
people already have a picture that how coronavirus should be
dealt with, how how what was the responsible should be like.
(40:22):
So if the garment or the media's does not respond
the way they wanted, they're just not ready to accept that.
Other than realizing you shouldn't take for granted certain things
like a shower, hugging your wife, or taking your daughter
to school. What have you learned from this whole experience?
What I learned is that the information, trusting information is
(40:46):
so important. There are so much misinformation flying flying around
on Twitter and even in the news. You have to
we have to be very, very careful to check the source.
And I thing I learned is listened to the experts.
I'm not experting embarrassed, so I try to find experts
(41:07):
I can trust, so I try to listen to them. Ellen,
thank you so much for talking with us about your experience.
We really really appreciate it. And stay safe, stay healthy,
and and many many thanks. Thank you for me. Thank
you so much. When we come back trying to find
(41:35):
answers to some of your burning questions about the COVID
nineteen outbreak. I understand a lot of you out there
(41:58):
are worried about COVID Night Team, and I understand why.
It's a lot of information to take in. We want
to answer some of the questions you sent to me
via social media. So the good news is the doctor
is in. Dr Shaffner. Hey, it's Katie Kuric. Thank you.
Dr Schaffner. Dr Bill Shaffner is the medical director of
(42:22):
the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases and a professor at Vanderbilt. Okay,
let me go ahead and go through these questions, Dr Shaffner,
because you've been so nice. K Jersey Kids asked, when
do you predict or when do the authorities predict the
virus will peak in the US. Wait a minute, you
(42:42):
didn't tell me I had to have my crystal ball here. Uh.
We hope, we hope that since it's a respiratory virus,
and respiratory viruses like influenza, as we all know, they
abate come March and April into a maybe this coronavirus
will have read the textbook and does the same thing.
(43:07):
But we don't think that will mean even if it
does that, that it will go away completely. One of
the things that could do is go south of the
equator because as we start having summer, they start having winter,
and so could it be that in Australia, New Zealand,
Southern Africa, and in South America they're due for this
(43:29):
coronavirus and then could its cycle back our next winter.
Maybe all the more reason to keep research going on
that vaccine, because if it does persist or come back,
we'll need that vaccine down the road. We're hearing, by
the way, speaking of that, that the vaccine is going
to take a year, year two, a year and a
(43:51):
half to be developed. Is that what you're hearing as well? Yep, yep, yep,
And let's all take a deep breath about that. You
you want people to hurry up, but not rush. Nobody
wants to start delivering an unsafe or an ineffective vaccine
to our population. We want to be sure we're doing
(44:14):
it right. Let's give them a little time. Science can't
be rushed. Jen Scoville asked, should we be pausing personal travel? Well, Jen,
I would ask, if I may ask a personal question,
are you older than sixty? Do you have one of
those underlying illnesses? Because if you do, I would ask
(44:36):
you to think twice about how essential that trip is
right now, and if it's not all that essential, postpone it.
And as Dr Tony Facci has said from the n
I h don't even think about going on a cruise.
I know, really, squid six, these are funny handles. Am
I crazy to want to continue going to work out classes?
(45:00):
I don't think you are. I think at any age
you can go to a workout class that's not really
a close, intense environment where you get face to face
with people, take some wipes along perhaps your gym probably
has them, and wipe off the seats and your bar
bells and things like that before you use them. And
(45:23):
after you use them, because that will make them more
friendly to others. Uh, gentle, good exercise, good for the body.
Alison wants to know how could a person tell the
difference between corona symptoms and cold symptoms. That's pretty easy.
I thought you was going to ask me the harder question,
(45:43):
how you how can you distinguish it from flu? We'll
do that as a follow up. Yea so cold, think
of from the neck up, sore throat, stuffy knows, feeling
kind of punk. Maybe your eyes get a little bit red,
maybe a little bit of fever. Not so bad. Coronavirus
(46:04):
and flu, who are they're indistinguishable, will get down into
your chest pretty quickly, cause irritation of your bronchial tubes
and a cough, a kind of a dry cough. And
then both of those viruses can make you more sick
by having you feel really punk, losing your appetite. Some
(46:25):
people get abdominal pain and diarrhea. And then, of course,
as we move along the more serious part of the
spectrum of illness, if that virus gets out into your lungs,
the coronavirus, it can cause pneumonia, and if that's bad enough,
you'll have difficulty breathing. By that time, you will have
called your healthcare provider or shown up in the emergency room.
(46:48):
When someone has a mild case and doesn't need hospitalization.
What kind of medicines are most effective for dealing with this?
Is it sort of common sense? Like syrup and plenty
of fluids, chicken soup, that kind of thing, Adville thailand All.
I mean, what are you recommending when people actually do
(47:09):
test positively for this? That's perfect, You've just written the prescription.
I could be a doctor, why not? So stay away
from folks, and if your home, keep up your fluids.
Chicken soup is wonderful. Uh. Coffee and alcoholic beverages don't
(47:31):
count because they tend to be diuretics. They tend to
draw you out, actually right, they they're very dehydrating. Yes,
so they don't count. Uh. Plain water works just fine
and sure for relief of symptoms. Uh, an aspirin or
anything like that, A thailand All will certainly help. Should
(47:54):
pregnant women worry, that's one question we got at the moment.
I haven't seen any data to suggest that coronavirus infection
in a woman can affect her baby, but it has
not been well studied, and I'm sure there are physicians
in China who have had experience with this who are
(48:16):
going to tell us of their experience. So I'm going
to put that one off on the side. But in
terms of worry, I think you're like a normal person,
except you're a bit immuno suppressed. Uh. That's a natural
condition in pregnancy, and so take special care to avoid
people who are coughing and sneezing. Wash those hands. And
(48:39):
it's not a good time to travel when if you
do believe you have coronavirus, either you've been diagnosed or
you just feel like you have a Hopefully you you'll
call your doctor if you feel like you you have it.
Um At what point is it safe to go out
in the world again. It's safe to go out in
the world again when you're feeling better and your fever
(49:02):
is all gone. And that's the general recommendation we make
for influenza, and it would apply to the coronavirus also. Well,
I know you have other patients you need to talk to.
Dr Bill Shaffner. Thank you so much for spending some
time answering these questions. What a pleasure, Katie. Good to
be with you and call any time with more of
(49:26):
those very interesting questions, and I'll take another one of
your pop quizes. Okay, Dr Shaffner, thank you so much. Sure, bye,
bye bye. That was Dr Bill Shaffner of the National
Foundation for Infectious Diseases. And before we go, I want
to return to Dr Maria van Kirkov for some tips
(49:48):
and words of advice. Pay attention to what CDC is
saying and what government websites are saying. You can always
come to W H O, DOT, I N T and
see you know the information that we have. But the basics,
these fundamentals of hand washing, of respiratory etiquette. What we
mean by that is making sure you sneeze into your
elbow or sneeze into a tissue, UM, and put it
(50:11):
in a closed bin, and then wash your hands. Practice
social distancing, keep three feet away from people, especially people
who are are are sick. Um. These things are very
simple to do and everyone can do them, from your
grandmother to your children, UM. And these are things that
we want everybody to know and practice inner daily life.
(50:34):
That's it for this episode of Next Question. We really
hope it's given you some important information and put you
at ease at least a little bit as the story
of the outbreak continue to evolve. You can find the
most updated information and recommendations at CDC dot gov and
the World Health Organization at w h OH dot I
(50:56):
n T will also be updating my newsletter Wake Up
Call with the latest articles and information, and by the way,
you can subscribe to that at Katie Currek dot com.
Stay healthy out there, Everyone, wash your hands for twenty
seconds or just sing Happy Birthday twice. Until next time
and my Next Question, I'm Katie Couric. Thanks so much
(51:18):
for listening. Next Question with Katie Couric is a production
of I Heart Radio and Katie Currik Media. The executive
producers are Katie Currik, Courtney Litz, and Tyler Klang. The
supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our show producer is Bethan Macaluso.
The associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clements. Editing
(51:40):
by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagan and Lowell Berlante, Mixing by
Dylan Fagan. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser. For more information
on today's episode, go to Katie Currek dot com and
follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie Kurik. For
(52:00):
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Katie Couric
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