The Children's Minister says initiatives to address youth crime will provide needed consequences for young offenders.
The Government is proposing to introduce a Youth Serious Offender declaration, meaning the courts could send them to a military style academy.
Legislation will be introduced before the end of the year, while a pilot academy begins in Palmerston North at the end of July.
Karen Chhour says we can't keep letting young offenders keep causing harm in local communities.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks the'd.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Be Minister for Children who joins us now, Karen Schaw,
Good afternoon.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Oh, good afternoon. How's it going pretty good?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So this Young Serious Offender's declaration? What is it?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
So?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
The Young Serious Offenders seculation is really another tool and
about for judges and police to actually deal with our
most serious repeat you for offenders and actually have an
escalative response for young people between the age of fourteen
and seventeen year old who have had proven offenses that
(00:45):
would be punishable way up to ten years of imprisonment
more two of them and were previous inventions may not
have been so successful, and so we know we have
to deal with this. We can't continue letting these young
people be out in our communities committing some pretty serious crimes,
creating victims and causing havoc and not actually having any
(01:08):
consequences for that poor behavior.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
What's the how is it going to be defined? What
makes someone a young serious offender?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So they must have must have had two proven offenses
punishable by ten years or more within the courts, and
like I said, also not us knowing that they're more
than likely to refend because they've been persistent offenders in past,
and they have been a new justice facilities over and
(01:39):
over again.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
How many people do you think this is likely going
to be applied to. You've got sort of ballpark.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So if we look at the number of young people
that will fit into that current currently, we have around
one hundred and two young people that would be eligible
to be declared a YSO currently. But how much that
number goes up once the YSO is introduced is actually
the part of a judge's discretion around that way or so.
(02:08):
But it will actually give the police the ability, when
standing in court to ask for an application for a
YORO to be declared on that young person if they
fit that criteria.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
So, what's significantly going to change in the way we
treat these people that isn't in place now.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
So there's a few things that this way SO category
has enabled. It has enabled us to have a new
military style academy order put in place on these young people.
It's allowing greater use of electronic monitoring and judicial monitoring
these young people so that if they are out in
our communities that we've got a bit more oversight on them.
(02:47):
It allows for longer supervision orders and supervision with activity orders.
It also takes it removes the early release from a
supervision and residence order, so it allows us to have
those young people within the residence for up to twelve
months in this middlelitary style academy. But it also gives
(03:07):
us the ability now to know who these young people
are and actually put the resources behind them once they
leave these military academies so that they have a better
chance when they transition back into the community.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, a lot of people when they're criticizing the military
style academy, they love to roll out the term boot camps,
which seem to be a pretty broad sort of term.
Does that irritate you that it sort of doesn't allow
you to point out maybe what's different about the way
you're going to go about things.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, I mean, I don't like the term boot camp.
That brings visions of some pretty terrible things to people's mind.
The military style academy will have quite a big function.
It'll be around physical activities, It'll be around education and
vocational training for these young people. It'll be around preparation
(03:54):
for work and finding employment once they're back in the community,
also around homing them being sure that they're actually going
back to a safe environment because in the past they've
been in a youth justice facility, they've been less out
and basically it's our job done. Now you're on your own.
We're not going to do that anymore. A part of
(04:15):
this around therapeutic and cultural components once they're back in
the community, to make sure that they're supported.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
How many groups are involved in sort of supporting the
whole project.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
So we've had Defense around the table. They've had a
very big part in building up the components of what
the military part will look like. We've got ordering a
tamidiki of course, because this will we run out of
the pilot will be run out of the parmersticeld Eddy
Youth Justice facility. We also have the ability to use
the military, the military's resources which are just down the road,
(04:52):
and we've also got police and justice who have worked
very closely around what this will look like in their
portfolio spaces.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Also, yeah, when do you know when do you think
you'll get a steer on whether there's it's actually having
some effect.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
So we'll be running this pilot program that starts at
the end of the next month, and we'll be taking
learnings as we go along. There'll be like a rolling
assessment of what's working, and we'll be able to pivot
along the way. What we really want to make sure
is successful is actually when we're reintegrating them into the community,
So that will take a little bit of time to
see if a difference is being made. But the aim
(05:28):
is to have less victims in our community, less harm
in our community, but actually being there to support this
young person, to make sure that they don't reoffend, and
if they are reoffending, that we're there very quickly and
dealing with it quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Are you confident that the judiciary will be defining people
as serious young offenders appropriately and that you'll get the
support from them that the scheme needs.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
And look, I think in the past, when a judge
thinks about sentencing, youve justice has always been seen as
like a holding pen for our young people before we
seen them off to adulperas and well quote adult prison.
We're creating a better system once these young people go
into this YJ facility, and I hope the judges will
(06:14):
see that as an opportunity for more support for that
young person and a better way of dealing with it.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Okay, just quickly, just to touch on seven double A,
because that's been keeping you busy and in the headlines
a little bit. How's the work on that going. How
do you satisfy the people who are concerned that the
cultural needs of children will not be met?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
There's already provisions within the Act around around looking after
young people and their cultural needs and their fucker pappa
and where they come from. We are currently going through
the select mility process in Parliament right now, and I
encourage everybody who has a part to play in this
to have their say. That's what a select comittee process
(07:01):
is about. This law will not be rushed, It will
go through the book full parliamentary process, so everybody has
the right to have their say, and I'll be looking
at those submissions closely and seeing what people are saying
and taking on that feedback.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Is there a bit more subtlety to this than just
right there? Seven double AT's gone? Job done? Are you
looking at other religious slative provisions around it?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I mean it's about sending a clear message to our
workers who are dealing with our young people that safety
and well being come first above everything. A young person
must be safe and then we can look at all
the other things that a young person may need. A
safety first roof of their head, making sure that they've
(07:46):
got everything they need to thrive, not just survive, And
then we can bring in elements like culture and fuck
up and making sure that these young people do know
where they come from and connecting them up with EWE
as they are marbus so that they can touch it,
feel it, know where they come from. But safety and
well be must be the first course of action before
(08:09):
doing that. I don't want to open a newspaper anymore
and see a picture of a baby that has passed
away because we may have made the wrong decisions and
we haven't put safety first.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, do you do you have much hope for the
rhetoric and policy? I mean it seems to me in politics,
the rhetoric around of this can be pretty divisive. We
had that remark from Maria Mana Kapakingi saying that Mari
children are not New Zealand as their Mari. I mean,
how do you respond to that? And what hope is
there for reasonable discussions with that sort of rhetoric floating
floating around?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah? I mean it's actually really unhelpful because I was
just an everyday person who has had experience in this
space growing up, who was very frustrated about what I
was seeing going on and wanting to make a real
difference in our young people's lives, an absolute real change
when it comes to how we've deal with our children.
(09:01):
I can't stop the Maori Party from say what they're saying.
All I can do is just kept on my message
of safety and best interest is the most important thing
for our young people. Everything else comes second to that.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Karen Sure, I really appreciate your time this afternoon. Sure
of the rest of your day.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks the'd.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Be Minister for Children who joins us now, Karen Schaw,
Good afternoon.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Oh, good afternoon. How's it going pretty good?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So this Young Serious Offender's declaration? What is it?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
So?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
The Young Serious Offenders seculation is really another tool and
about for judges and police to actually deal with our
most serious repeat you for offenders and actually have an
escalative response for young people between the age of fourteen
and seventeen year old who have had proven offenses that
(00:45):
would be punishable way up to ten years of imprisonment
more two of them and were previous inventions may not
have been so successful, and so we know we have
to deal with this. We can't continue letting these young
people be out in our communities committing some pretty serious crimes,
creating victims and causing havoc and not actually having any
(01:08):
consequences for that poor behavior.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
What's the how is it going to be defined? What
makes someone a young serious offender?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So they must have must have had two proven offenses
punishable by ten years or more within the courts, and
like I said, also not us knowing that they're more
than likely to refend because they've been persistent offenders in past,
and they have been a new justice facilities over and
(01:39):
over again.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
How many people do you think this is likely going
to be applied to. You've got sort of ballpark.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So if we look at the number of young people
that will fit into that current currently, we have around
one hundred and two young people that would be eligible
to be declared a YSO currently. But how much that
number goes up once the YSO is introduced is actually
the part of a judge's discretion around that way or so.
(02:08):
But it will actually give the police the ability, when
standing in court to ask for an application for a
YORO to be declared on that young person if they
fit that criteria.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
So, what's significantly going to change in the way we
treat these people that isn't in place now.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
So there's a few things that this way SO category
has enabled. It has enabled us to have a new
military style academy order put in place on these young people.
It's allowing greater use of electronic monitoring and judicial monitoring
these young people so that if they are out in
our communities that we've got a bit more oversight on them.
(02:47):
It allows for longer supervision orders and supervision with activity orders.
It also takes it removes the early release from a
supervision and residence order, so it allows us to have
those young people within the residence for up to twelve
months in this middlelitary style academy. But it also gives
(03:07):
us the ability now to know who these young people
are and actually put the resources behind them once they
leave these military academies so that they have a better
chance when they transition back into the community.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, a lot of people when they're criticizing the military
style academy, they love to roll out the term boot camps,
which seem to be a pretty broad sort of term.
Does that irritate you that it sort of doesn't allow
you to point out maybe what's different about the way
you're going to go about things.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, I mean, I don't like the term boot camp.
That brings visions of some pretty terrible things to people's mind.
The military style academy will have quite a big function.
It'll be around physical activities, It'll be around education and
vocational training for these young people. It'll be around preparation
(03:54):
for work and finding employment once they're back in the community,
also around homing them being sure that they're actually going
back to a safe environment because in the past they've
been in a youth justice facility, they've been less out
and basically it's our job done. Now you're on your own.
We're not going to do that anymore. A part of
(04:15):
this around therapeutic and cultural components once they're back in
the community, to make sure that they're supported.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
How many groups are involved in sort of supporting the
whole project.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
So we've had Defense around the table. They've had a
very big part in building up the components of what
the military part will look like. We've got ordering a
tamidiki of course, because this will we run out of
the pilot will be run out of the parmersticeld Eddy
Youth Justice facility. We also have the ability to use
the military, the military's resources which are just down the road,
(04:52):
and we've also got police and justice who have worked
very closely around what this will look like in their
portfolio spaces.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Also, yeah, when do you know when do you think
you'll get a steer on whether there's it's actually having
some effect.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
So we'll be running this pilot program that starts at
the end of the next month, and we'll be taking
learnings as we go along. There'll be like a rolling
assessment of what's working, and we'll be able to pivot
along the way. What we really want to make sure
is successful is actually when we're reintegrating them into the community,
So that will take a little bit of time to
see if a difference is being made. But the aim
(05:28):
is to have less victims in our community, less harm
in our community, but actually being there to support this
young person, to make sure that they don't reoffend, and
if they are reoffending, that we're there very quickly and
dealing with it quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Are you confident that the judiciary will be defining people
as serious young offenders appropriately and that you'll get the
support from them that the scheme needs.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
And look, I think in the past, when a judge
thinks about sentencing, youve justice has always been seen as
like a holding pen for our young people before we
seen them off to adulperas and well quote adult prison.
We're creating a better system once these young people go
into this YJ facility, and I hope the judges will
(06:14):
see that as an opportunity for more support for that
young person and a better way of dealing with it.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Okay, just quickly, just to touch on seven double A,
because that's been keeping you busy and in the headlines
a little bit. How's the work on that going. How
do you satisfy the people who are concerned that the
cultural needs of children will not be met?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
There's already provisions within the Act around around looking after
young people and their cultural needs and their fucker pappa
and where they come from. We are currently going through
the select mility process in Parliament right now, and I
encourage everybody who has a part to play in this
to have their say. That's what a select comittee process
(07:01):
is about. This law will not be rushed, It will
go through the book full parliamentary process, so everybody has
the right to have their say, and I'll be looking
at those submissions closely and seeing what people are saying
and taking on that feedback.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Is there a bit more subtlety to this than just
right there? Seven double AT's gone? Job done? Are you
looking at other religious slative provisions around it?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I mean it's about sending a clear message to our
workers who are dealing with our young people that safety
and well being come first above everything. A young person
must be safe and then we can look at all
the other things that a young person may need. A
safety first roof of their head, making sure that they've
(07:46):
got everything they need to thrive, not just survive, And
then we can bring in elements like culture and fuck
up and making sure that these young people do know
where they come from and connecting them up with EWE
as they are marbus so that they can touch it,
feel it, know where they come from. But safety and
well be must be the first course of action before
(08:09):
doing that. I don't want to open a newspaper anymore
and see a picture of a baby that has passed
away because we may have made the wrong decisions and
we haven't put safety first.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, do you do you have much hope for the
rhetoric and policy? I mean it seems to me in politics,
the rhetoric around of this can be pretty divisive. We
had that remark from Maria Mana Kapakingi saying that Mari
children are not New Zealand as their Mari. I mean,
how do you respond to that? And what hope is
there for reasonable discussions with that sort of rhetoric floating
floating around?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah? I mean it's actually really unhelpful because I was
just an everyday person who has had experience in this
space growing up, who was very frustrated about what I
was seeing going on and wanting to make a real
difference in our young people's lives, an absolute real change
when it comes to how we've deal with our children.
(09:01):
I can't stop the Maori Party from say what they're saying.
All I can do is just kept on my message
of safety and best interest is the most important thing
for our young people. Everything else comes second to that.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Karen Sure, I really appreciate your time this afternoon. Sure
of the rest of your day.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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