June 23, 2024 • 41 mins
This week on Politics Central, Maritime Union spokesperson Victor Billot claimed cancelling the upgrade of the existing Interisland ferry fleet with two large ferries was a critical error from the Government, and Friday's Aratere grounding was a long time coming after years of warnings.
Later, Children's Minister Karen Chhour unveiled her plan to cut down youth offending by introducing a new declaration for young offenders to ensure they face tougher consequences and are better supported to turn their lives around.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at Bay.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
All yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We all live man yellow.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Next door begins to play we all liven a yellow submarine,
yellow submarine, yellow submarine. We all live a yellow submarine,
(01:00):
yellow submarine, yellow submarine.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
We had a very good afternoon to you. I'm Tim Bebridge.
Welcome to the Weekend Collective for this Sunday, the twenty
third of June. Just letting you know it's coming up
today and just a moment we'll be going to Politics Central.
We're going to have a chat with Victor Billet, who
is the he's from the Maritime Union, just about the
recent events of course involving the ferry and all the
troubles we've got to deal with on that one. And
(01:26):
then after that we're kept up catching up with Kara
and Sure Karen Taua from the Act Party talking about
steps they're taking four youth offenders. But looking a little
bit further ahead for the Health Hub, we're joined for
Triton Hearing from Trenton. Here we're going to have a
chat about people's hearing and we're joined by Leslie Smith
and then for smart money, Brent, I've got a new
(01:48):
guest actually, Ben Brinkerhoff joins us from an organization called Concilium,
chatting a smart money at five o'clock. But right now
it is eight minutes past three Politics Central, So right, well,
you know we've all caught up with the news with
the with the Faery and Arda terry a couple of
(02:08):
nights ago, and the challenges that we've got looking ahead
to what are we going to get to replace it?
I guess so forty seven people spent the night of
the inter island Arda terry on Friday night suffered a
steering failure and hit the coastline near Pictam just after
seven pm. That was on Friday night. Authorities, well, you know,
(02:31):
the government said this week it has been highly unimpressed
with Kiwi Rail's maintenance of the inter island of Faery
Fleet with the steering failure, and today to discuss that
and the consequences and where we go from here and everything,
we're joined by well, actually we're going to be joined
shortly by Maritime Union spokesperson Victor Billet, and we're just
(02:57):
having a bit of trouble connecting to Victor now. Actually,
so we'll howd a second, let me just do a
couple of checks on this actually just a couple of
little updates there, so as you know, the inter islander
has actually been successfully refloated. I imagine actually that who
(03:18):
would have had the biggest, the worst night sleep following that?
Would it have been out of the ministers? Would it
have been Simeon Brown as Minister of Transport Infrastructure or
would it have been would it have been Nicola Willis,
because of course she canceled the order for the new Fairies,
(03:39):
and I think look, there's a bit of argument about
whether that was the right decision. She received a bit
of criticism for that, but also I think a lot
of people went yeah, of course when KiwiRail asked for
an extra one point five billion because of the infrastructure
that we needed to go with the fairies, the costs
were just ballooning out ridiculously. Anyway, So the latest is
(04:04):
that Peter Reedy, who's Kivy Raile's chief executive, said it
was it's a small mark on what has been a
successful year for the fairies. He said he'd take his
own family on those ships right now, which is an
interesting comment. Well, actually, to be honest, I mean they're
water tight. I'm just not sure you'd be. I'm not
(04:25):
sure how much faith you haven't it. That's the problem.
Say it's a small mark, but in terms of the
public perception of the way the Fairies are going, it
does seem that most of the news we see about
the Fairies is that they're old and that they're not
particularly the suggestion is that they're no longer really fit
for purpose. One of the comments that the Peter Reedy
(04:48):
made was that the was that the they've got a
new steering system which was installed on the ship, and
he said the new system was actually state of the art.
He wouldn't say if there might it might have played
a part in the grounding.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
One of the things that sort of grinds my years
about a lot of this stuff is, well, it's just
the lack of transparency around the lack of transparency when
they say, look, there's going to be an inquiry, when
it seems to many of us that there must be
some basic must be some basic answers that we could
(05:26):
be given. It's a bit like that one with the
Northland Power cut and the with the pilon that fell over,
and if you look at the pilon, I'd made a
joke about this at the time. If you look at
the pylon, it just it doesn't look like it's twisted.
And she had in some sort of violent storm or anything.
They were doing maintenance and it fell over. So it
(05:46):
looks like I would imagine that the answers to that
for that could have been pretty quickly forthcoming. You have
a chat with the people who are there what happened.
I'm sure that the people who are working there know
exactly what has happened, but yet we haven't got an
answer on that. And then we move on to Peter
Reedy who says that who won't say whether the state
(06:09):
of the art steering system might have played a part
in the grounding, So we just left to make up
the makeup our conclusions on this on our own, which
I think is a little bit a little bit rubbish.
So actually we are having trouble getting with getting hold
of our interviewee who we're hoping to talk to on
(06:30):
the show. By the way, who was the Maritime Union
New Zealand spokesperson, Victor Billet. Curious fact, actually I thought
to myself, how do I know this guy's name? But actually,
in fact I might mention that to them because I
think we're trying to connect through to him now because
he has got another He's not got another boat. What's
(06:50):
the expression when you have another sort of you have
another sideline to what you do. But anyway, look, actually
we've managed to connect to Victor, so we'll go to
him right now, Victor, good afternoon.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Good afternoon. Sorry rather, I'm not sure what evens no worries.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Hey, look we've got some serious issues to discuss, but
can I just check one little detail. In addition to
your role at the Maritime Union, are you also the poet?
Speaker 6 (07:16):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I tried to keep the two the two separate, and
I do, but yes, that is correct. I can't know
that well, So.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, I just was because when I heard your name,
I thought, well, I've read it a few times in connection,
but I thought it's ringing a bell somewhere else. I
don't mean to be fack or anything, but I just
had to. It's not like your name is Dave Smith
and it'd easily be someone else.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
True.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Anyway, Look, actually, I mean, can I ask have you
written a poem about the grounding of the oratary yet
because it's got to be some good material there.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Well, yes there is, but I try to keep a
little separate because, as you could imagine, that might get
a bit of confusing if I was running them up
against each other.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I apologize, I apologize, but I just would get that.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Look what was your what was your reaction to the
grounding of the ferry the other night.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Well, the union was we were obviously very concerned because
we've got our members aboard the ship, and you know,
for a while there it was unclear what had actually
happened and what's going on. I guess it's sad to
stay though. It wasn't, no, not really, because I mean,
(08:29):
this is the thing is that all the fairies, including
the ra theory, they're very old vessels, you know, for
for the type of environment they're operating in, and they
have had multiple issues. So it's just this was a
particularly serious and surprising one, actually.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Guess because there are so many different stakeholders than this.
Of course, there's that there's a transport there. There are
the businesses who rely on their goods getting from a
to b, and people who want to catch the ferry
and of course you're so is your Is it fair
to say your main area of concern, as the union spokespersons,
is really about the safety of people on these vessels.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Well, it's about the safety of air members, but it's
also about the safety of course of the passengers. But
we do have an interest in naturally, you know, as
the maritime unions has a broader focus, we're actually interested
in these questions about the future of fairies and shipping
in New Zealand and we feel this is a serious
issue we're dealing with.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
You what do you think of the response from Kiwi
Rail's qui Ral, including the chief executive Peter Reedy, who
said it's a small mark on what has been a
successful year for the Fairies. I would take my own
family on those ships right now? Would you take your family?
Speaker 5 (09:45):
I think it's you know, it's one of those things
that they're in a very hard position because I mean
they're dealing with a very complicated not only commercial but
political environment and our purposes really as a ying and
we're very supportive of the fairies, so we don't want
to kind of you know, we believe that they're just
operating in a substance way, and it would be fair
(10:07):
to say it would be a mistake to lay that
all on the current leadership of Kii Rail. It's a
kind of under investment over decades.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Actually also that, I guess when the fairies are in
the media, it's usually because there's there's some trouble. But
do you think that creates does it create an unfair
impression of how they're going and putting acknowledging that there's
some challenges there?
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Well, I think it's there's two things. There are problems
with the theories going on, and that has to be
there's no point trying to hide there or deny that,
and I think most people can see what the problems are.
But the flip side of it is we do need
those theories, so it's not a case of like, the
fairies are terrible. It's a case of the fairies need
(10:52):
to be fixed so that it's the purpose and we
have new theories that can actually do the job safely
and efficiently.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
What do you know about that state of the art
steerings system that Peter Ready referred.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
To, Well, I know about it is that the vessel
was in maintenance and it was it had a major
upgrade to the steering system that did happen. Don't know
what's happened, but they're very complicated in specialist technology there.
So once again part of the problem. Maybe it's that
(11:23):
they're having to do all this work because the fairies
themselves are so old.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Well what do you as we know there was the
canceled purchase of those new fairies because of cost blowouts.
I guess what do you think needs to happen now?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Well, the Union will always oppose the cancelation of the
Irex project. We believe the problems.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Sorry just fading out there, Victor.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Oh sorry. We believe that although there were some problems
with the costs around the terminals, the fairies was fine.
We needed to have that Irex project go ahead because
what we're in the situation now is of having no
clear plan and fairies that are failing. But what we
understand is we've heard, we've got sources, and we understand
(12:12):
that the government is probably going to have to go
back and order new fairies at a much higher cost
than the original ones because there probably aren't any secondhand
ferries available. So stay tuned, because I think we're going
to find we're a few more one hundred million in
the whole because of this whole situation.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
What's the problem with those other fairies was the infrastructure
and upgrading wharves. I mean, are there faery options including
new ferry options which wouldn't involve significant upgrades of import
infrastructure and wars.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
I'm sure there are other you know options. The question
is how you know? You just actually still they still
need will need to upgrade the terminals at Wellington and Pickton.
I mean that you can't get around it. I mean
you can cancel something and to save money. But the
trouble is what we're finding now is there is a
cost to not keeping things up and running and investing
(13:09):
in the future, and we're paying that cost now because
the maintenance costs for the fairies, the outages. It's all
coming home to reast very quickly.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
So what's the maritime unions and what's your role from
here on with regard to the fairies.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
Well, I think we're just going to keep on making
the point as loud as we can that we need
new fairies for the sake of the workers, the passengers,
for the sake of the businesses in New Zealand. That
need those need that connection, and we're going to keep
on advocating for that. And I think the trouble is
there's a lot of agendas floating around here at the
moment about the whole rail system, the Faery system, and
(13:48):
we just want to keep it as it is but
improve it. And so it's a good part of our
infrastructure because we can't afford to, you know, basically have
the North and South Islands cut off from each other,
which is almost where we're at now.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, do you have any understanding about how long it's
going to take to get the arditary back back in service.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
No, but you can take it. There's going to be
several inquiries from different outfits. Is going to be they're
going to have to look at the steering system obviously,
they're going to have to look at the hull integrity
and all that stuff. So it's going to be a
long time.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Well do you mean a long time? Do you mean
months or many months?
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Or look, I genuinely don't know, but I don't think
it's going to be we won't see it back in
service again this year imagine.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Oh well, and I apologize for raising your other career victor,
but I am looking forward to your next for your
next ode.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Okay, oh well, I'm glad to hear.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Thank you, Okay, thank you. That's Victor Billett, who is
the he's the of the Maritime Union. And also, as
I was thinking, I was suspecting, I think I recognized
that name somewhere and you know what, when you're in
the when you I'm not going to go on I
mean more about that, but I just thought that was
interesting to make that connection. We'll be doing talk back
on this and our next interview as well. And who
(15:07):
we're talking to next is Current Chure. She's Minister for Children.
She's going to join me to chat about the government's
plan to reduce youth offending by fifteen percent announcement that
came out today, among other things. And Current Saw from
Act joins us. Next. It is twenty two past three
newstalkshit beat, Yes, welcome back to the weekend Collective. This
(15:41):
is Politics Central and well onto the next issue. Today
the coalition government announced their plans to reduce serious repeat
offending by fifteen percent by introducing a new Declaration for
serious young offenders to ensure they face tougher consequences and
are better supported to return to turn their lives around.
And it also talks about the new military style academies
(16:06):
which will you and there'll be substitute sorry, subject to
greater use of electronic and judicial monitoring. Anyway to discuss
those details. As Minister for Children who joins us now
Karen Schaw, Good afternoon.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
Oh, good afternoon.
Speaker 8 (16:20):
How's it going pretty good?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
So this Young Serious Offender's Declaration, what is it?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So?
Speaker 7 (16:28):
The Young Serious Offenders seculation is really another tool and
about for judges and police to actually deal with most
serious repeat you for offenders and actually have have an
escalative response for young people between the age of fourteen
and seventeen year old have had proven offenses that would
(16:50):
be punishable way up to ten years of imprisonment more
two of them and were previous interventions may not have
been so successful and so we know we have to
deal with this. We can't continue letting these young people
be out in our muses committing some pretty serious crimes,
creating victims and causing havoc and not actually having any
(17:13):
consequences for that poor behavior.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
What's the how is it going to be defined? What
makes someone a young serious offender?
Speaker 7 (17:22):
So they must have must have had two proven offenses
punishable by ten years or more within the courts, And
like I said, also not us knowing that they're more
than likely to refend because they've been persistent offenders in
past and they have been the new justice facilities over
(17:43):
and over again.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
How many people do you think this is likely going
to be applied to? You've got sort of ballpark.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
So if we look at the number of young people
that will fit into that current currently we have around
one hundred and two young people that would be eligible
to be declared away so currently. But how how much
that number goes up once the YSO is introduced is
actually part of a judge's discretion around that YSO. But
(18:13):
it will actually give the police the ability, when standing
in court to ask for an application for a YSO
to be declared on that young person if they fit
that criteria.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
So, what's significantly going to change in the way we
treat these people that isn't in place now?
Speaker 7 (18:30):
So there's a few things that this YSO category has enabled.
It has enabled us to have a new military style
academy order put in place on these young people. It's
allowing greater use of electronic monitoring and judicial monitoring these
young people so that if they are out in our
communities that we've got a bit more oversight on them.
(18:52):
It allows the longer supervision orders and supervision with activity orders.
It also takes it removes the early release from a
supervision and residence order, so it allows us to have
the those young people within the residence for up to
twelve months in this military style academy. But it also
(19:12):
gives us the ability now to know who these young
people are and actually put the resources behind them once
they leave these military academies so that they have a
better chance when they transition back into the community.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, a lot of people when they're criticizing the military
style academy, they love to roll out the term boot camps,
which seem to be a pretty broad sort of term.
Does that id take you that it sort of doesn't
allow you to point out maybe what's different about the
way you're going to go about things.
Speaker 7 (19:39):
Yeah, I mean I don't like the term boot camp.
That brings visions of some pretty terrible things to people's mind.
The military style academy will have quite a big function.
It'll be around physical activities, it'll be around education and
vocational training for these young people. It'll be around preparation
(19:59):
for work and finding employment once they're back in the community.
Also around homing them, making sure that they're actually going
back to a safe environment because in the past they've
been in a youth justice facility, they've been less out
and basically it's our job done. Now you're on your own,
we're not going to do that anymore. A part of
(20:19):
this is around therapeutic and cultural components once they're back
in the community, to make sure that they're supported.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
How many groups are involved in sort of supporting the
whole project.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
So we've had Defense around the table. They've had a
very big part in building up the components of what
the military part will look like. We've got ordering a
tamidiki of course, because this will we run out of
the pilot will be run out of the Parmerstone norkild
Eddy Youth Justice facility. We also have the ability to
use the military, the military's resources which are just down
(20:56):
the road, and we've also got police and justice who
have worked very closely around what this will look like
in their portfolio spaces.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Also, when do you know when do you think you'll
get a steer on whether it's actually having some effect.
Speaker 7 (21:10):
So we'll be running this pilot program that starts at
the end of the next month, and we'll be taking
learnings as we go along. There'll be like a rolling
assessment of what's working, and we'll be able to pivot
along the way. What we really want to make sure
is successful is actually when we're reintegrating them into the community.
So that will take a little bit of time to
see if a difference is being made, But the aim
(21:33):
is to have less victims in our community, less harm
in our community, but actually being there to support this
young person to make sure that they don't reoffend, and
if they are reoffending, that we're there very quickly and
dealing with it quickly.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Are you confident that the judiciary will be defining people
as serious young offenders appropriately and that you'll get the
support from them that the scheme needs.
Speaker 7 (21:58):
And look, I think in the past, when a judge
thinks about sentencing, youve justice has always been seen as
like a whole pen for our young people before we
send them off to adult prison, well quote adult prison.
We're creating a better system once these young people go
into this YJ facility and I hope the judges will
(22:19):
see that as an opportunity for more support for that
young person and a better way of dealing with it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Okay, just quickly, just to touch on seven double A
because that's been keeping you busy and in the headlines
a little bit. How's the work on that going? But
how do you satisfy the people who are concerned that
the cultural needs of children will not be met?
Speaker 7 (22:43):
There's already provisions within the Act around around looking after
young people and their cultural needs and their fucker pappa
and where they come from. We are currently going through
the sty process in Parliament right now, and I encourage
everybody who has a part to play in this to
have their say. That's what it's committee process is about.
(23:07):
This law will not be rushed. It will go through
the full parliamentary process, so everybody has the right to
have their say, and I'll be looking at those submissions
closely and seeing what people are saying and taking on
that feedback.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Is there a bit more subtlety to this than just
right there? Seven double ats gone? Job done? Are you
looking at other religious slative provisions around it?
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (23:30):
I mean it's about sending a clear message to our
workers who are dealing with our young people that safety
and well being come first above everything. A young person
must be safe, and then we can look at all
the other things that a young person may need. A
safety first, a roof of their head, making sure that
they've got everything they need to thrive, not just survive.
(23:54):
And then we can bring an elements like culture and
fuck up and making sure that these young people do
know where they come from and connecting them up with
EE as they are marut they can touch it, feel it,
know where they come from, but safety and well being
must be the first course of action before doing that.
(24:14):
I don't want to open a newspaper anymore and see
a picture of a baby that has passed away because
they've made the wrong decisions and we haven't put safety first.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yeah, do you do you have much hope for the
rhetoric and policy? I mean it seems to me in politics,
the rhetoric around of this can be pretty divisive. We
had that remark from Maria Mana Kapakingi saying that Marie
children are not New Zealand as the Mari. I mean,
how do you respond to that? And what hope is
there for reasonable discussions with that sort of rhetoric floating
floating around.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (24:45):
I mean it's actually really unhelpful because I was just
nor everyday person who has had experience in this space
growing up, who was very frustrated about what I was
seeing going on and wanting to make a real difference
in our young people's lives, an absolute real change when
it comes to how we've dealt with our children. I
(25:06):
can't stop the multi party from saying what they're saying.
All I can do is just kept on my message
of safety and best interest is the most important thing
for our young people. Everything else comes second to that.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Karen, Sure, I really appreciate your time this afternoon, and
sure of the rest of your day.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Thank you, good day.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
There we go. That's current. Sure, Minister for Children. About
the new steps, well, easy question for talkback. Do you
support the initiatives that Karen is undertaking as Minister of Children.
But there's two aspects to it, of course, the new
action taken to address youth crime with the declaration of
Young Serious Offenders. In fact, I've just realized the question
(25:49):
I probably should have asked her about. You're worried about
the stigma, about the fact that somebody has been designated
a young serious offender. It's probably the list of the
problems actually, but what do you make of the declaration
of young serious offender? And also yeah, the military style
academies and all that in the interventions? Do you support
(26:11):
Karen sure in this? And also on seven double A,
which is the repeal of around the provisions of the
Treaty of wy Tongey and the race being taken into
account and all that sort of thing. There is still
the requirements section four. It still talks about the best
interests of the child. So what do you make of that?
I look, I think Karen Shaw is going to be
a fantastic ministry of children, so and I support I
(26:33):
support the initiatives that she's gotten in trained So yeah,
I wait one hundred eighty ten eighty, we'd love to
have your cause. And also just on the interview with
Victor Billet from the on the Fairies, what next if
you were in charge? And actually how quick should these
inquiries take? Give us a call? I wait one hundred
eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two back in
(26:54):
just a moment. It's twenty four minutes to four news talks.
He'd be it was toxicp This is politic Central at
(27:20):
Tim Beverage on the Weekend Collective today, this Sunday, twenty
third of June. By the way, just before you get
into the cause, I meant to say this at the
start of the show, but we had a few we're
just chasing a taless on a couple of interviews there,
I got distracted from mentioning how smug I feel that
I predict the Blues victory because I think the expression
I used to Elliot Smithler yesterday was that the Blues
were going to clean the Chief's clock and it was
(27:41):
going to be my more than fourteen points. So woohoo
Beverage's predictions. And also, unfortunately I was right about the
Warriors that I said, ironically, now that they're playing the
worst in the competition, they're probably going to put in
the they're probably going to lose because they can beat
some amazing teams, and then they suddenly when you got
one coming up bottom of the table, I thought, well,
they'll probably lose, and gosh, didn't they lose. My goodness.
(28:01):
I'm not really happy about that prediction coming true because
I just or the Warriors fans deserve a lot better anyway,
look just on the section seven double A of the
Rung of Tamaiki Act being repealed. The reason I support
the repeal of it is that it is I think
that we are such a diverse country in now multicultural
(28:23):
that the question around looking after the best interests of
the children or of the child are best suited by
looking after the best interests of the child without any
overriding thing about race. And now obviously the Rung of
Tamaiki Act seven double A is focused on mari and
children in connection with their fano, and of course that
(28:44):
should also be met by just the best interests of
the child surely, And I think that the presence of
that section places an undue sort of influence on the
people who are making those decisions. We have people from
all sorts of community, whether they be I don't need
to list. In fact, if you look out at New Zealand,
you tell me how many people from different cultures, how
(29:04):
many different races creeds live in New Zealand, and there's
your answer. And I think it's a complex issue to
resolve what is the best way to look after children
when there's been a breakdown in their family system. So
in terms of repealing Section seven double eight one. But
it doesn't mean that we're not going to be trying
to do our best for children of all all races
(29:29):
and cultures. So yeah, and I've I've got a lot
of faith in Carer and sure she seems to me
to be someone who has a great deal of integrity.
In fact, I don't think you can query the integrity.
And I think that the worrisome thing is on the
side of politics. When you see the comments that were
made the other day in Scrutiny Week saying that they're
not New Zealanders the Mari children shows you the the
(29:52):
divide that exists in some people's minds. And I think
that I think those sort of disgraceful comments. But anyway,
let's get into let's get into the talk back. Just
give me one moment and Paul Goday.
Speaker 8 (30:04):
Well, great, it's far from cloudy and cold, napier accoring.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
I think you said it was cold yesterday and I
had some text saying it's not that cold anyway.
Speaker 8 (30:14):
Carry yeah, I got the heap. I'm going anyway, We're
just talking about, you know, the fairies and also the
our air force as well, the problems we're having it
for planes. I think I think the best thing really
will be why don't we go to a company that
manufactured with us the Netherlands or Germany and say, hey,
we want to lease two fairies off you, the latest
(30:37):
ones out and we don't have such a big capital.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Out they I think availability is I heard Judith Collinstale
Q and A asking some answering some questions around leasing
things as well, and it's it's not as straightforward, but yeah,
it's certainly certainly an option. Do you think what do
you think we should do with the fairies? Is that
what you're talking about? We're talking about the seven five
sevens just then, Oh.
Speaker 8 (31:02):
And also the fairies too. I think we could we
should actually a lease so you can get a you know,
really state of the art and suits our particular verthing
area like for the Some theories obviously are not really
suitable for our type of geographically situated Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Well, yeah, it's a challenging crossing, isn't it? The old
cock straight So it is.
Speaker 8 (31:24):
But I think that with the leasing of it, you
can lease it to inn a view to purchasing later
when the country is out of this sort of depression.
At the moment, we get more capital available.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Yeah, good stuff, I think. Yeah, O care ound Sorry,
that's right.
Speaker 8 (31:39):
Yes, it's similar when you read lease a car company
liases the cars, they get the latest one and a
couple of years later they turn it over and get
a new one. And I'm not too sure what the
ruling is on maintenance costs.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Yeah, well, there's lots of questions to answers there, And Paulia,
thanks for your call mate.
Speaker 9 (31:55):
David High Hello, just ads own. I've been steering at
the dear old big draggled atory for most of the day, Ancord,
about a k and a half off my off my
wharf in the mold.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
The sounds Oh.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
You've got a nice spot you're hanging around in.
Speaker 9 (32:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (32:15):
We don't often get a show like this, like nobody
got hurt. But at yes, it's looking very sad and
they've got me to thinking. And I heard you, you
know the start of the hour. We used to be
a twenty five generations. It's back to the age and sixties,
which is not a lot in evolutionary terms. We used
to be a nation of proactive, get out and do stuff.
(32:38):
It'll be the gold mining. We drained the swamps and
built beautiful cities and five generations, we've become so reactive,
haven't we? And I'd just love to get your thoughts
as to if it's appropriate to talk back as to
why the hell this has happened? Why have we become so?
And there's Keeving number eight mentality that's I think it's crap.
(33:00):
Excuse my French.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Well, I think that we've been pushing a lot of
things down on the road, and therefore it makes you
become more reactive because you're not thinking here, because you're
not wanting to spend the money. Probably, I think it's
just it's gentle lack of investment.
Speaker 9 (33:15):
But why have we why we like that? There are
so many other nations who even't look to her farm
more or you know, on top of things and get
things done and really like the stakes or not.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
I mean, yeah, okay, I don't know. Look, look, I'm
not going to sum that up on a quick core,
but I think that one part of it is I
think our idealism gets ahead of our pragmatism at times,
and I think that that's overtaken a lot of the
political discourse in the last six years or so.
Speaker 9 (33:42):
Anyway, just very lastly, as a man of great music,
tabis abilities. You might have a song been running around
in my head.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
You know what, Let's talk about this another time. I've
got to keep it on the politics. But thank you, Yes,
I appreciate it. Thanks for your call. Let's go to
Rusty today.
Speaker 6 (34:02):
Hello Tim. First time Corps I was really a program
and all the talk about ones. I'm blind, so I
had to get my wife for sixty four years to
do the regulous number for me. I'm a veteran of
boot camp. There were thousands of young men were called
(34:23):
up to get together in the military camps of New
Zealand and it was called compulsory Military Training. And I
had a review. I've interviewed most of the group down here,
I'm right at the south of the South Island, and
they look back on their the years in the CMT
and the talk and like myself, it was one of
(34:44):
the highlights of their youthful career and it was. It
was a lot of fun. It was a lot of
camaraderie as much. We didn't need the boot camp, the
so called boot discipline. It was a wonderful experience with
the discipline of.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
I think boot camp comes from just the fact that
you're wearing, you know, part of the uniform I guess
as boots, but I don't know that. Yeah, hey, thanks
for that, Rusty. You know, I think that every time
I hear someone arguing that boot camps don't work and
they refer to the different data, it's like, well, it's like,
it's just the definition is so clumsy, and if the
government are doing something different with the sort of military
(35:26):
style training and introducing discipline into these people's lives, with
the backup of other community groups, it is different. It's
a bit like it's a bit like having a recipe
for something that doesn't work. You change the recipe. It's
still called the same dish, but you've improved it all
of a sudden. There's a big difference in the outcome.
If you get the recipe wrong for it, then then
(35:48):
that's the problem. But yeah, the arguments around just grouping
everything under all under the one heading, I think are
quite quite crude. Quite a few texts on our interviews
one hundred percent right, Karenshaw is brilliant and says it's
obviously the racists are what about the Indian, Chinese and
European culture. I'm just probably editing a few things out
(36:13):
there that I'd probably want to read out. But yes,
exactly what about all the other cultures in New Zealand? Hi, Tim,
Karen See is doing a great job. She's a very
caring person. Had a great interview on Q and A
this morning too. She gets ten out of ten from me,
says Laura. Yes to Karen, one hundred percent on both
young offenders and Section double A. Go, Karen. I think
that's the thing with young offenders. We have to keep
(36:33):
trying new things, my mate. The reason I asked her
about the judiciary, and she can't really comment about the judiciary.
She can only comment about the sort of steps they're
putting in play, because you can't tell the judges what
to do, except by drafting legislation that tries to tell
them what to do. I think, did I put that right? Anyway? Right?
(36:55):
What else we got here? Well, said Tim? Race and
culture is irrelevant when it comes to making the best
decision for our kids. Well, yeah, okay, it's not a elephant,
but it is nuanced. And also it's worth remembering that
many children who may look like they're from just one
particular culture have many possibly the product of many different backgrounds. Tim,
(37:21):
even if the new fairies are more expensive than the
council ones, asking as they fit at the current ports,
then will still save a billion. Well that's the thing.
If we get new fairies which themselves might be more expensive,
but they don't require a massive upgrade of warf and
port structure, then hopefully that's still still a win. Absolutely
support the repeal of seven double eight. Was appalling to
(37:43):
regularly hear reports of established New Zealand children being uplifted
from good, loving New Zealand family homes just because the
family wasn't Maray. Actually, the other point is that it
doesn't acknowledge there's so many mixed families in New Zealand
where the children are sensibly Maray, but of course mum's Parky,
our dad's Maray or vice versa. What if they split up?
I mean you're going to say the kids can only
(38:05):
live with the Marii parent, of course not. I think
that there are several absurdities that sort of seems to
get skirt around. Thank you and thank you to Karen
for an awesome interview. She is the complete package to
be winister of children with their childhood history and her
beautiful free flowing speech and ethnicity. Right, I think that's
(38:27):
we might head to the break and just come back
with a bit more feedback before we move on. It's
just gone nine minutes. It's just come up to nine
minutes to for news talk, sad beat. Yes, welcome back
to the weekend collective that almost rats politics and trol.
Just give a little bit more feedback and just this
(38:50):
one text that says I like how Karen Shaw said
something like wanting kids to thrive and not just survive
in the system. And I thought her remarks about the
youth justice system either bee or feeling like a bit
of a holding pen until the kids get a bit
older and then they go do something seriously end up
in prison again, I thought, I thought, sort of hit
(39:14):
the money on the head, actually, which so any any
new approach to these things and interventions that tries us
and tries to get it, it gets us to focus
on these children earlier on. And you know, also, I'm
not sure where the consequences go in terms of punishment
and stuff, but we have to have interventions that make
a genuine change. Anyway, We've had lots of text about
(39:38):
the fairies and conjecture about what we should do. But yeah,
I think I'm reckoning that. The person who's probably losing
the most sleep on this would probably be Nikola Willis,
because she's like, right, here's a few more well not
few hundred million, but here's a billion or two that
I'm going to have to find to get these get
new boats. Yes, because it doesn't feel like it's a
(40:00):
problem that's going to go away unless Kiwi Ral can
do some extraordinary job of assuring us this actually this
was freakish and we're all good doubt that. Anyway, that
wraps Politics Center. You can go check the podcast wherever
you find yours. Look for the Weekend Collective. I suggest
iHeartRadio as a perfect spot to do that. Up next,
(40:20):
we are heading to the Health Hub and Leslie Smith
is joining us. She is head of audiology at Triton Hearing.
So we're going to be talking about your hearing and
you know, what can you do if you are expect
experiencing hearing loss, taking your calls on that tips to
prevent it and also choosing the right hearing aid. And
she is joining us from Trident Hearing. Well, she's going
(40:41):
to be right in the studio very shortly it is
just gone four minutes to four, News Talk said, be
the news is next, and.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
You and you and me.
Speaker 5 (41:12):
No matter how they cast the dice, it had to do.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks It'd Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at Bay.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
All yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We all live man yellow.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Next door begins to play we all liven a yellow submarine,
yellow submarine, yellow submarine. We all live a yellow submarine,
(01:00):
yellow submarine, yellow submarine.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
We had a very good afternoon to you. I'm Tim Bebridge.
Welcome to the Weekend Collective for this Sunday, the twenty
third of June. Just letting you know it's coming up
today and just a moment we'll be going to Politics Central.
We're going to have a chat with Victor Billet, who
is the he's from the Maritime Union, just about the
recent events of course involving the ferry and all the
troubles we've got to deal with on that one. And
(01:26):
then after that we're kept up catching up with Kara
and Sure Karen Taua from the Act Party talking about
steps they're taking four youth offenders. But looking a little
bit further ahead for the Health Hub, we're joined for
Triton Hearing from Trenton. Here we're going to have a
chat about people's hearing and we're joined by Leslie Smith
and then for smart money, Brent, I've got a new
(01:48):
guest actually, Ben Brinkerhoff joins us from an organization called Concilium,
chatting a smart money at five o'clock. But right now
it is eight minutes past three Politics Central, So right, well,
you know we've all caught up with the news with
the with the Faery and Arda terry a couple of
(02:08):
nights ago, and the challenges that we've got looking ahead
to what are we going to get to replace it?
I guess so forty seven people spent the night of
the inter island Arda terry on Friday night suffered a
steering failure and hit the coastline near Pictam just after
seven pm. That was on Friday night. Authorities, well, you know,
(02:31):
the government said this week it has been highly unimpressed
with Kiwi Rail's maintenance of the inter island of Faery
Fleet with the steering failure, and today to discuss that
and the consequences and where we go from here and everything,
we're joined by well, actually we're going to be joined
shortly by Maritime Union spokesperson Victor Billet, and we're just
(02:57):
having a bit of trouble connecting to Victor now. Actually,
so we'll howd a second, let me just do a
couple of checks on this actually just a couple of
little updates there, so as you know, the inter islander
has actually been successfully refloated. I imagine actually that who
(03:18):
would have had the biggest, the worst night sleep following that?
Would it have been out of the ministers? Would it
have been Simeon Brown as Minister of Transport Infrastructure or
would it have been would it have been Nicola Willis,
because of course she canceled the order for the new Fairies,
(03:39):
and I think look, there's a bit of argument about
whether that was the right decision. She received a bit
of criticism for that, but also I think a lot
of people went yeah, of course when KiwiRail asked for
an extra one point five billion because of the infrastructure
that we needed to go with the fairies, the costs
were just ballooning out ridiculously. Anyway, So the latest is
(04:04):
that Peter Reedy, who's Kivy Raile's chief executive, said it
was it's a small mark on what has been a
successful year for the fairies. He said he'd take his
own family on those ships right now, which is an
interesting comment. Well, actually, to be honest, I mean they're
water tight. I'm just not sure you'd be. I'm not
(04:25):
sure how much faith you haven't it. That's the problem.
Say it's a small mark, but in terms of the
public perception of the way the Fairies are going, it
does seem that most of the news we see about
the Fairies is that they're old and that they're not
particularly the suggestion is that they're no longer really fit
for purpose. One of the comments that the Peter Reedy
(04:48):
made was that the was that the they've got a
new steering system which was installed on the ship, and
he said the new system was actually state of the art.
He wouldn't say if there might it might have played
a part in the grounding.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
One of the things that sort of grinds my years
about a lot of this stuff is, well, it's just
the lack of transparency around the lack of transparency when
they say, look, there's going to be an inquiry, when
it seems to many of us that there must be
some basic must be some basic answers that we could
(05:26):
be given. It's a bit like that one with the
Northland Power cut and the with the pilon that fell over,
and if you look at the pilon, I'd made a
joke about this at the time. If you look at
the pylon, it just it doesn't look like it's twisted.
And she had in some sort of violent storm or anything.
They were doing maintenance and it fell over. So it
(05:46):
looks like I would imagine that the answers to that
for that could have been pretty quickly forthcoming. You have
a chat with the people who are there what happened.
I'm sure that the people who are working there know
exactly what has happened, but yet we haven't got an
answer on that. And then we move on to Peter
Reedy who says that who won't say whether the state
(06:09):
of the art steering system might have played a part
in the grounding, So we just left to make up
the makeup our conclusions on this on our own, which
I think is a little bit a little bit rubbish.
So actually we are having trouble getting with getting hold
of our interviewee who we're hoping to talk to on
(06:30):
the show. By the way, who was the Maritime Union
New Zealand spokesperson, Victor Billet. Curious fact, actually I thought
to myself, how do I know this guy's name? But actually,
in fact I might mention that to them because I
think we're trying to connect through to him now because
he has got another He's not got another boat. What's
(06:50):
the expression when you have another sort of you have
another sideline to what you do. But anyway, look, actually
we've managed to connect to Victor, so we'll go to
him right now, Victor, good afternoon.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Good afternoon. Sorry rather, I'm not sure what evens no worries.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Hey, look we've got some serious issues to discuss, but
can I just check one little detail. In addition to
your role at the Maritime Union, are you also the poet?
Speaker 6 (07:16):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I tried to keep the two the two separate, and
I do, but yes, that is correct. I can't know
that well, So.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, I just was because when I heard your name,
I thought, well, I've read it a few times in connection,
but I thought it's ringing a bell somewhere else. I
don't mean to be fack or anything, but I just
had to. It's not like your name is Dave Smith
and it'd easily be someone else.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
True.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Anyway, Look, actually, I mean, can I ask have you
written a poem about the grounding of the oratary yet
because it's got to be some good material there.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Well, yes there is, but I try to keep a
little separate because, as you could imagine, that might get
a bit of confusing if I was running them up
against each other.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I apologize, I apologize, but I just would get that.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Look what was your what was your reaction to the
grounding of the ferry the other night.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Well, the union was we were obviously very concerned because
we've got our members aboard the ship, and you know,
for a while there it was unclear what had actually
happened and what's going on. I guess it's sad to
stay though. It wasn't, no, not really, because I mean,
(08:29):
this is the thing is that all the fairies, including
the ra theory, they're very old vessels, you know, for
for the type of environment they're operating in, and they
have had multiple issues. So it's just this was a
particularly serious and surprising one, actually.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Guess because there are so many different stakeholders than this.
Of course, there's that there's a transport there. There are
the businesses who rely on their goods getting from a
to b, and people who want to catch the ferry
and of course you're so is your Is it fair
to say your main area of concern, as the union spokespersons,
is really about the safety of people on these vessels.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Well, it's about the safety of air members, but it's
also about the safety of course of the passengers. But
we do have an interest in naturally, you know, as
the maritime unions has a broader focus, we're actually interested
in these questions about the future of fairies and shipping
in New Zealand and we feel this is a serious
issue we're dealing with.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
You what do you think of the response from Kiwi
Rail's qui Ral, including the chief executive Peter Reedy, who
said it's a small mark on what has been a
successful year for the Fairies. I would take my own
family on those ships right now? Would you take your family?
Speaker 5 (09:45):
I think it's you know, it's one of those things
that they're in a very hard position because I mean
they're dealing with a very complicated not only commercial but
political environment and our purposes really as a ying and
we're very supportive of the fairies, so we don't want
to kind of you know, we believe that they're just
operating in a substance way, and it would be fair
(10:07):
to say it would be a mistake to lay that
all on the current leadership of Kii Rail. It's a
kind of under investment over decades.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Actually also that, I guess when the fairies are in
the media, it's usually because there's there's some trouble. But
do you think that creates does it create an unfair
impression of how they're going and putting acknowledging that there's
some challenges there?
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Well, I think it's there's two things. There are problems
with the theories going on, and that has to be
there's no point trying to hide there or deny that,
and I think most people can see what the problems are.
But the flip side of it is we do need
those theories, so it's not a case of like, the
fairies are terrible. It's a case of the fairies need
(10:52):
to be fixed so that it's the purpose and we
have new theories that can actually do the job safely
and efficiently.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
What do you know about that state of the art
steerings system that Peter Ready referred.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
To, Well, I know about it is that the vessel
was in maintenance and it was it had a major
upgrade to the steering system that did happen. Don't know
what's happened, but they're very complicated in specialist technology there.
So once again part of the problem. Maybe it's that
(11:23):
they're having to do all this work because the fairies
themselves are so old.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Well what do you as we know there was the
canceled purchase of those new fairies because of cost blowouts.
I guess what do you think needs to happen now?
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Well, the Union will always oppose the cancelation of the
Irex project. We believe the problems.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Sorry just fading out there, Victor.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Oh sorry. We believe that although there were some problems
with the costs around the terminals, the fairies was fine.
We needed to have that Irex project go ahead because
what we're in the situation now is of having no
clear plan and fairies that are failing. But what we
understand is we've heard, we've got sources, and we understand
(12:12):
that the government is probably going to have to go
back and order new fairies at a much higher cost
than the original ones because there probably aren't any secondhand
ferries available. So stay tuned, because I think we're going
to find we're a few more one hundred million in
the whole because of this whole situation.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
What's the problem with those other fairies was the infrastructure
and upgrading wharves. I mean, are there faery options including
new ferry options which wouldn't involve significant upgrades of import
infrastructure and wars.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
I'm sure there are other you know options. The question
is how you know? You just actually still they still
need will need to upgrade the terminals at Wellington and Pickton.
I mean that you can't get around it. I mean
you can cancel something and to save money. But the
trouble is what we're finding now is there is a
cost to not keeping things up and running and investing
(13:09):
in the future, and we're paying that cost now because
the maintenance costs for the fairies, the outages. It's all
coming home to reast very quickly.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
So what's the maritime unions and what's your role from
here on with regard to the fairies.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
Well, I think we're just going to keep on making
the point as loud as we can that we need
new fairies for the sake of the workers, the passengers,
for the sake of the businesses in New Zealand. That
need those need that connection, and we're going to keep
on advocating for that. And I think the trouble is
there's a lot of agendas floating around here at the
moment about the whole rail system, the Faery system, and
(13:48):
we just want to keep it as it is but
improve it. And so it's a good part of our
infrastructure because we can't afford to, you know, basically have
the North and South Islands cut off from each other,
which is almost where we're at now.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, do you have any understanding about how long it's
going to take to get the arditary back back in service.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
No, but you can take it. There's going to be
several inquiries from different outfits. Is going to be they're
going to have to look at the steering system obviously,
they're going to have to look at the hull integrity
and all that stuff. So it's going to be a
long time.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Well do you mean a long time? Do you mean
months or many months?
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Or look, I genuinely don't know, but I don't think
it's going to be we won't see it back in
service again this year imagine.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Oh well, and I apologize for raising your other career victor,
but I am looking forward to your next for your
next ode.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Okay, oh well, I'm glad to hear.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Thank you, Okay, thank you. That's Victor Billett, who is
the he's the of the Maritime Union. And also, as
I was thinking, I was suspecting, I think I recognized
that name somewhere and you know what, when you're in
the when you I'm not going to go on I
mean more about that, but I just thought that was
interesting to make that connection. We'll be doing talk back
on this and our next interview as well. And who
(15:07):
we're talking to next is Current Chure. She's Minister for Children.
She's going to join me to chat about the government's
plan to reduce youth offending by fifteen percent announcement that
came out today, among other things. And Current Saw from
Act joins us. Next. It is twenty two past three
newstalkshit beat, Yes, welcome back to the weekend Collective. This
(15:41):
is Politics Central and well onto the next issue. Today
the coalition government announced their plans to reduce serious repeat
offending by fifteen percent by introducing a new Declaration for
serious young offenders to ensure they face tougher consequences and
are better supported to return to turn their lives around.
And it also talks about the new military style academies
(16:06):
which will you and there'll be substitute sorry, subject to
greater use of electronic and judicial monitoring. Anyway to discuss
those details. As Minister for Children who joins us now
Karen Schaw, Good afternoon.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
Oh, good afternoon.
Speaker 8 (16:20):
How's it going pretty good?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
So this Young Serious Offender's Declaration, what is it?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So?
Speaker 7 (16:28):
The Young Serious Offenders seculation is really another tool and
about for judges and police to actually deal with most
serious repeat you for offenders and actually have have an
escalative response for young people between the age of fourteen
and seventeen year old have had proven offenses that would
(16:50):
be punishable way up to ten years of imprisonment more
two of them and were previous interventions may not have
been so successful and so we know we have to
deal with this. We can't continue letting these young people
be out in our muses committing some pretty serious crimes,
creating victims and causing havoc and not actually having any
(17:13):
consequences for that poor behavior.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
What's the how is it going to be defined? What
makes someone a young serious offender?
Speaker 7 (17:22):
So they must have must have had two proven offenses
punishable by ten years or more within the courts, And
like I said, also not us knowing that they're more
than likely to refend because they've been persistent offenders in
past and they have been the new justice facilities over
(17:43):
and over again.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
How many people do you think this is likely going
to be applied to? You've got sort of ballpark.
Speaker 7 (17:51):
So if we look at the number of young people
that will fit into that current currently we have around
one hundred and two young people that would be eligible
to be declared away so currently. But how how much
that number goes up once the YSO is introduced is
actually part of a judge's discretion around that YSO. But
(18:13):
it will actually give the police the ability, when standing
in court to ask for an application for a YSO
to be declared on that young person if they fit
that criteria.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
So, what's significantly going to change in the way we
treat these people that isn't in place now?
Speaker 7 (18:30):
So there's a few things that this YSO category has enabled.
It has enabled us to have a new military style
academy order put in place on these young people. It's
allowing greater use of electronic monitoring and judicial monitoring these
young people so that if they are out in our
communities that we've got a bit more oversight on them.
(18:52):
It allows the longer supervision orders and supervision with activity orders.
It also takes it removes the early release from a
supervision and residence order, so it allows us to have
the those young people within the residence for up to
twelve months in this military style academy. But it also
(19:12):
gives us the ability now to know who these young
people are and actually put the resources behind them once
they leave these military academies so that they have a
better chance when they transition back into the community.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, a lot of people when they're criticizing the military
style academy, they love to roll out the term boot camps,
which seem to be a pretty broad sort of term.
Does that id take you that it sort of doesn't
allow you to point out maybe what's different about the
way you're going to go about things.
Speaker 7 (19:39):
Yeah, I mean I don't like the term boot camp.
That brings visions of some pretty terrible things to people's mind.
The military style academy will have quite a big function.
It'll be around physical activities, it'll be around education and
vocational training for these young people. It'll be around preparation
(19:59):
for work and finding employment once they're back in the community.
Also around homing them, making sure that they're actually going
back to a safe environment because in the past they've
been in a youth justice facility, they've been less out
and basically it's our job done. Now you're on your own,
we're not going to do that anymore. A part of
(20:19):
this is around therapeutic and cultural components once they're back
in the community, to make sure that they're supported.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
How many groups are involved in sort of supporting the
whole project.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
So we've had Defense around the table. They've had a
very big part in building up the components of what
the military part will look like. We've got ordering a
tamidiki of course, because this will we run out of
the pilot will be run out of the Parmerstone norkild
Eddy Youth Justice facility. We also have the ability to
use the military, the military's resources which are just down
(20:56):
the road, and we've also got police and justice who
have worked very closely around what this will look like
in their portfolio spaces.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Also, when do you know when do you think you'll
get a steer on whether it's actually having some effect.
Speaker 7 (21:10):
So we'll be running this pilot program that starts at
the end of the next month, and we'll be taking
learnings as we go along. There'll be like a rolling
assessment of what's working, and we'll be able to pivot
along the way. What we really want to make sure
is successful is actually when we're reintegrating them into the community.
So that will take a little bit of time to
see if a difference is being made, But the aim
(21:33):
is to have less victims in our community, less harm
in our community, but actually being there to support this
young person to make sure that they don't reoffend, and
if they are reoffending, that we're there very quickly and
dealing with it quickly.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Are you confident that the judiciary will be defining people
as serious young offenders appropriately and that you'll get the
support from them that the scheme needs.
Speaker 7 (21:58):
And look, I think in the past, when a judge
thinks about sentencing, youve justice has always been seen as
like a whole pen for our young people before we
send them off to adult prison, well quote adult prison.
We're creating a better system once these young people go
into this YJ facility and I hope the judges will
(22:19):
see that as an opportunity for more support for that
young person and a better way of dealing with it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Okay, just quickly, just to touch on seven double A
because that's been keeping you busy and in the headlines
a little bit. How's the work on that going? But
how do you satisfy the people who are concerned that
the cultural needs of children will not be met?
Speaker 7 (22:43):
There's already provisions within the Act around around looking after
young people and their cultural needs and their fucker pappa
and where they come from. We are currently going through
the sty process in Parliament right now, and I encourage
everybody who has a part to play in this to
have their say. That's what it's committee process is about.
(23:07):
This law will not be rushed. It will go through
the full parliamentary process, so everybody has the right to
have their say, and I'll be looking at those submissions
closely and seeing what people are saying and taking on
that feedback.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Is there a bit more subtlety to this than just
right there? Seven double ats gone? Job done? Are you
looking at other religious slative provisions around it?
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (23:30):
I mean it's about sending a clear message to our
workers who are dealing with our young people that safety
and well being come first above everything. A young person
must be safe, and then we can look at all
the other things that a young person may need. A
safety first, a roof of their head, making sure that
they've got everything they need to thrive, not just survive.
(23:54):
And then we can bring an elements like culture and
fuck up and making sure that these young people do
know where they come from and connecting them up with
EE as they are marut they can touch it, feel it,
know where they come from, but safety and well being
must be the first course of action before doing that.
(24:14):
I don't want to open a newspaper anymore and see
a picture of a baby that has passed away because
they've made the wrong decisions and we haven't put safety first.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yeah, do you do you have much hope for the
rhetoric and policy? I mean it seems to me in politics,
the rhetoric around of this can be pretty divisive. We
had that remark from Maria Mana Kapakingi saying that Marie
children are not New Zealand as the Mari. I mean,
how do you respond to that? And what hope is
there for reasonable discussions with that sort of rhetoric floating
floating around.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (24:45):
I mean it's actually really unhelpful because I was just
nor everyday person who has had experience in this space
growing up, who was very frustrated about what I was
seeing going on and wanting to make a real difference
in our young people's lives, an absolute real change when
it comes to how we've dealt with our children. I
(25:06):
can't stop the multi party from saying what they're saying.
All I can do is just kept on my message
of safety and best interest is the most important thing
for our young people. Everything else comes second to that.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Karen, Sure, I really appreciate your time this afternoon, and
sure of the rest of your day.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Thank you, good day.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
There we go. That's current. Sure, Minister for Children. About
the new steps, well, easy question for talkback. Do you
support the initiatives that Karen is undertaking as Minister of Children.
But there's two aspects to it, of course, the new
action taken to address youth crime with the declaration of
Young Serious Offenders. In fact, I've just realized the question
(25:49):
I probably should have asked her about. You're worried about
the stigma, about the fact that somebody has been designated
a young serious offender. It's probably the list of the
problems actually, but what do you make of the declaration
of young serious offender? And also yeah, the military style
academies and all that in the interventions? Do you support
(26:11):
Karen sure in this? And also on seven double A,
which is the repeal of around the provisions of the
Treaty of wy Tongey and the race being taken into
account and all that sort of thing. There is still
the requirements section four. It still talks about the best
interests of the child. So what do you make of that?
I look, I think Karen Shaw is going to be
a fantastic ministry of children, so and I support I
(26:33):
support the initiatives that she's gotten in trained So yeah,
I wait one hundred eighty ten eighty, we'd love to
have your cause. And also just on the interview with
Victor Billet from the on the Fairies, what next if
you were in charge? And actually how quick should these
inquiries take? Give us a call? I wait one hundred
eighty ten eighty text nine two nine two back in
(26:54):
just a moment. It's twenty four minutes to four news talks.
He'd be it was toxicp This is politic Central at
(27:20):
Tim Beverage on the Weekend Collective today, this Sunday, twenty
third of June. By the way, just before you get
into the cause, I meant to say this at the
start of the show, but we had a few we're
just chasing a taless on a couple of interviews there,
I got distracted from mentioning how smug I feel that
I predict the Blues victory because I think the expression
I used to Elliot Smithler yesterday was that the Blues
were going to clean the Chief's clock and it was
(27:41):
going to be my more than fourteen points. So woohoo
Beverage's predictions. And also, unfortunately I was right about the
Warriors that I said, ironically, now that they're playing the
worst in the competition, they're probably going to put in
the they're probably going to lose because they can beat
some amazing teams, and then they suddenly when you got
one coming up bottom of the table, I thought, well,
they'll probably lose, and gosh, didn't they lose. My goodness.
(28:01):
I'm not really happy about that prediction coming true because
I just or the Warriors fans deserve a lot better anyway,
look just on the section seven double A of the
Rung of Tamaiki Act being repealed. The reason I support
the repeal of it is that it is I think
that we are such a diverse country in now multicultural
(28:23):
that the question around looking after the best interests of
the children or of the child are best suited by
looking after the best interests of the child without any
overriding thing about race. And now obviously the Rung of
Tamaiki Act seven double A is focused on mari and
children in connection with their fano, and of course that
(28:44):
should also be met by just the best interests of
the child surely, And I think that the presence of
that section places an undue sort of influence on the
people who are making those decisions. We have people from
all sorts of community, whether they be I don't need
to list. In fact, if you look out at New Zealand,
you tell me how many people from different cultures, how
(29:04):
many different races creeds live in New Zealand, and there's
your answer. And I think it's a complex issue to
resolve what is the best way to look after children
when there's been a breakdown in their family system. So
in terms of repealing Section seven double eight one. But
it doesn't mean that we're not going to be trying
to do our best for children of all all races
(29:29):
and cultures. So yeah, and I've I've got a lot
of faith in Carer and sure she seems to me
to be someone who has a great deal of integrity.
In fact, I don't think you can query the integrity.
And I think that the worrisome thing is on the
side of politics. When you see the comments that were
made the other day in Scrutiny Week saying that they're
not New Zealanders the Mari children shows you the the
(29:52):
divide that exists in some people's minds. And I think
that I think those sort of disgraceful comments. But anyway,
let's get into let's get into the talk back. Just
give me one moment and Paul Goday.
Speaker 8 (30:04):
Well, great, it's far from cloudy and cold, napier accoring.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
I think you said it was cold yesterday and I
had some text saying it's not that cold anyway.
Speaker 8 (30:14):
Carry yeah, I got the heap. I'm going anyway, We're
just talking about, you know, the fairies and also the
our air force as well, the problems we're having it
for planes. I think I think the best thing really
will be why don't we go to a company that
manufactured with us the Netherlands or Germany and say, hey,
we want to lease two fairies off you, the latest
(30:37):
ones out and we don't have such a big capital.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Out they I think availability is I heard Judith Collinstale
Q and A asking some answering some questions around leasing
things as well, and it's it's not as straightforward, but yeah,
it's certainly certainly an option. Do you think what do
you think we should do with the fairies? Is that
what you're talking about? We're talking about the seven five
sevens just then, Oh.
Speaker 8 (31:02):
And also the fairies too. I think we could we
should actually a lease so you can get a you know,
really state of the art and suits our particular verthing
area like for the Some theories obviously are not really
suitable for our type of geographically situated Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Well, yeah, it's a challenging crossing, isn't it? The old
cock straight So it is.
Speaker 8 (31:24):
But I think that with the leasing of it, you
can lease it to inn a view to purchasing later
when the country is out of this sort of depression.
At the moment, we get more capital available.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
Yeah, good stuff, I think. Yeah, O care ound Sorry,
that's right.
Speaker 8 (31:39):
Yes, it's similar when you read lease a car company
liases the cars, they get the latest one and a
couple of years later they turn it over and get
a new one. And I'm not too sure what the
ruling is on maintenance costs.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Yeah, well, there's lots of questions to answers there, And Paulia,
thanks for your call mate.
Speaker 9 (31:55):
David High Hello, just ads own. I've been steering at
the dear old big draggled atory for most of the day, Ancord,
about a k and a half off my off my
wharf in the mold.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
The sounds Oh.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
You've got a nice spot you're hanging around in.
Speaker 9 (32:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (32:15):
We don't often get a show like this, like nobody
got hurt. But at yes, it's looking very sad and
they've got me to thinking. And I heard you, you
know the start of the hour. We used to be
a twenty five generations. It's back to the age and sixties,
which is not a lot in evolutionary terms. We used
to be a nation of proactive, get out and do stuff.
(32:38):
It'll be the gold mining. We drained the swamps and
built beautiful cities and five generations, we've become so reactive,
haven't we? And I'd just love to get your thoughts
as to if it's appropriate to talk back as to
why the hell this has happened? Why have we become so?
And there's Keeving number eight mentality that's I think it's crap.
(33:00):
Excuse my French.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Well, I think that we've been pushing a lot of
things down on the road, and therefore it makes you
become more reactive because you're not thinking here, because you're
not wanting to spend the money. Probably, I think it's
just it's gentle lack of investment.
Speaker 9 (33:15):
But why have we why we like that? There are
so many other nations who even't look to her farm
more or you know, on top of things and get
things done and really like the stakes or not.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
I mean, yeah, okay, I don't know. Look, look, I'm
not going to sum that up on a quick core,
but I think that one part of it is I
think our idealism gets ahead of our pragmatism at times,
and I think that that's overtaken a lot of the
political discourse in the last six years or so.
Speaker 9 (33:42):
Anyway, just very lastly, as a man of great music,
tabis abilities. You might have a song been running around
in my head.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
You know what, Let's talk about this another time. I've
got to keep it on the politics. But thank you, Yes,
I appreciate it. Thanks for your call. Let's go to
Rusty today.
Speaker 6 (34:02):
Hello Tim. First time Corps I was really a program
and all the talk about ones. I'm blind, so I
had to get my wife for sixty four years to
do the regulous number for me. I'm a veteran of
boot camp. There were thousands of young men were called
(34:23):
up to get together in the military camps of New
Zealand and it was called compulsory Military Training. And I
had a review. I've interviewed most of the group down here,
I'm right at the south of the South Island, and
they look back on their the years in the CMT
and the talk and like myself, it was one of
(34:44):
the highlights of their youthful career and it was. It
was a lot of fun. It was a lot of
camaraderie as much. We didn't need the boot camp, the
so called boot discipline. It was a wonderful experience with
the discipline of.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
I think boot camp comes from just the fact that
you're wearing, you know, part of the uniform I guess
as boots, but I don't know that. Yeah, hey, thanks
for that, Rusty. You know, I think that every time
I hear someone arguing that boot camps don't work and
they refer to the different data, it's like, well, it's like,
it's just the definition is so clumsy, and if the
government are doing something different with the sort of military
(35:26):
style training and introducing discipline into these people's lives, with
the backup of other community groups, it is different. It's
a bit like it's a bit like having a recipe
for something that doesn't work. You change the recipe. It's
still called the same dish, but you've improved it all
of a sudden. There's a big difference in the outcome.
If you get the recipe wrong for it, then then
(35:48):
that's the problem. But yeah, the arguments around just grouping
everything under all under the one heading, I think are
quite quite crude. Quite a few texts on our interviews
one hundred percent right, Karenshaw is brilliant and says it's
obviously the racists are what about the Indian, Chinese and
European culture. I'm just probably editing a few things out
(36:13):
there that I'd probably want to read out. But yes,
exactly what about all the other cultures in New Zealand? Hi, Tim,
Karen See is doing a great job. She's a very
caring person. Had a great interview on Q and A
this morning too. She gets ten out of ten from me,
says Laura. Yes to Karen, one hundred percent on both
young offenders and Section double A. Go, Karen. I think
that's the thing with young offenders. We have to keep
(36:33):
trying new things, my mate. The reason I asked her
about the judiciary, and she can't really comment about the judiciary.
She can only comment about the sort of steps they're
putting in play, because you can't tell the judges what
to do, except by drafting legislation that tries to tell
them what to do. I think, did I put that right? Anyway? Right?
(36:55):
What else we got here? Well, said Tim? Race and
culture is irrelevant when it comes to making the best
decision for our kids. Well, yeah, okay, it's not a elephant,
but it is nuanced. And also it's worth remembering that
many children who may look like they're from just one
particular culture have many possibly the product of many different backgrounds. Tim,
(37:21):
even if the new fairies are more expensive than the
council ones, asking as they fit at the current ports,
then will still save a billion. Well that's the thing.
If we get new fairies which themselves might be more expensive,
but they don't require a massive upgrade of warf and
port structure, then hopefully that's still still a win. Absolutely
support the repeal of seven double eight. Was appalling to
(37:43):
regularly hear reports of established New Zealand children being uplifted
from good, loving New Zealand family homes just because the
family wasn't Maray. Actually, the other point is that it
doesn't acknowledge there's so many mixed families in New Zealand
where the children are sensibly Maray, but of course mum's Parky,
our dad's Maray or vice versa. What if they split up?
I mean you're going to say the kids can only
(38:05):
live with the Marii parent, of course not. I think
that there are several absurdities that sort of seems to
get skirt around. Thank you and thank you to Karen
for an awesome interview. She is the complete package to
be winister of children with their childhood history and her
beautiful free flowing speech and ethnicity. Right, I think that's
(38:27):
we might head to the break and just come back
with a bit more feedback before we move on. It's
just gone nine minutes. It's just come up to nine
minutes to for news talk, sad beat. Yes, welcome back
to the weekend collective that almost rats politics and trol.
Just give a little bit more feedback and just this
(38:50):
one text that says I like how Karen Shaw said
something like wanting kids to thrive and not just survive
in the system. And I thought her remarks about the
youth justice system either bee or feeling like a bit
of a holding pen until the kids get a bit
older and then they go do something seriously end up
in prison again, I thought, I thought, sort of hit
(39:14):
the money on the head, actually, which so any any
new approach to these things and interventions that tries us
and tries to get it, it gets us to focus
on these children earlier on. And you know, also, I'm
not sure where the consequences go in terms of punishment
and stuff, but we have to have interventions that make
a genuine change. Anyway, We've had lots of text about
(39:38):
the fairies and conjecture about what we should do. But yeah,
I think I'm reckoning that. The person who's probably losing
the most sleep on this would probably be Nikola Willis,
because she's like, right, here's a few more well not
few hundred million, but here's a billion or two that
I'm going to have to find to get these get
new boats. Yes, because it doesn't feel like it's a
(40:00):
problem that's going to go away unless Kiwi Ral can
do some extraordinary job of assuring us this actually this
was freakish and we're all good doubt that. Anyway, that
wraps Politics Center. You can go check the podcast wherever
you find yours. Look for the Weekend Collective. I suggest
iHeartRadio as a perfect spot to do that. Up next,
(40:20):
we are heading to the Health Hub and Leslie Smith
is joining us. She is head of audiology at Triton Hearing.
So we're going to be talking about your hearing and
you know, what can you do if you are expect
experiencing hearing loss, taking your calls on that tips to
prevent it and also choosing the right hearing aid. And
she is joining us from Trident Hearing. Well, she's going
(40:41):
to be right in the studio very shortly it is
just gone four minutes to four, News Talk said, be
the news is next, and.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
You and you and me.
Speaker 5 (41:12):
No matter how they cast the dice, it had to do.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks It'd Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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