June 30, 2024 • 13 mins
The Transport Minister is focused on building essential infrastructure as the Auckland Regional Fuel Tax is scrapped.
Auckland motorists will save 11.5 cents a litre, with the tax removed from tomorrow.
Simeon Brown says hundreds of millions of dollars from the tax wasn't being spent at all.
"We're stopping the waste, we're focusing it back on the basics. And that remaining funding is going to go towards priority projects, such as the Eastern busway, more trains for the rail link and local roading upgrades."
He adds the Government isn't increasing fuel excise and road user charges in this term.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News talks'b.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Well, of course, tomorrow, I think is when Auckland does
expect their fuel price to drop by twelve cents as
the Auckland fuel tax expires. Wayne Brown had said scraping
the tax would make it harder to fund desperately needed
transport infrastructure if it wasn't replaced with other funding. Well,
earlier this week the government's policy statement on land transport,
(00:31):
which covers the next ten years. There's twenty two billion
dollar plan aiming to drive economic growth and growth improve
productivity through a series of strategic investments over the next decade,
and highlights include a forty one percent increase in funding
for public transport services, boosts for pothole prevention and road maintenance,
and a revival of the Roads of National Significance program
(00:52):
and some also Roads of Regional Significance. So I thought
we'd better dig into this, and so we're joined now
by the Transport Minister. He's a local government minister of
course as well, and it is Sime and Brown.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So seven billion dollars a year over the next ten
years to build and maintain a transport system to help
us get around a cynical question, will we notice.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, absolutely, we're focused not just on spending taxpayers money
on improving our transport system, but actually on getting outcomes
for New Zealanders. Ultimately, when people pay fuel tex at
the pump or road user charges by looking at outcomes.
And so we've made it very clear that we want
to see improved outcome in terms of road maintenance. We're
(01:43):
setting clear expectations of the agency around how many, what
percentage of the road actually needs to be maintained on
an annual basis, and we're setting very clear expectations around
the roads of regional significance and roads of national significance
which New Zealanders want. And starting from tomorrow, MDT will
be improving its response to potholes, improving the maintenance that
(02:06):
it's doing with writing network and also we're going to
see been putting more money towards in sport as well
so that we can give a more reliable service. But
ultimately you're right and New Zealanders have high expectations and
that's my job as Minister of Transport is to make
sure that this delivers the outcomes New Zealanders want.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Look, just backing up on the regional fuel tax, but
an Auckland being dumped as of tomorrow. And Wayne Brown
wasn't a fan? Will Wayne Brown love your plan? Did
you check with him much? Checking with him much about this?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, ultimately the regional fuel tax in Auckland was being
used to fund speed bumps, and he wasn't a fan
of speed bumps, and neither am I. And so we're
stopping funding for speed bumps. And the reality and as
and as people know, hundreds of millions of dollars of
that Auckland regional fuel tax wasn't even being spent. It
(02:57):
was sitting in a bank account doing nothing. And so
we're canceling the tax one because it was being spent
on the wrong priority speed bumps, cycle lanes, red light cameras.
It wasn't actually building the infrastructure that New Zealanders thought
they were paying for. Most Aucklanders thought every time they
filled up they were going to get something like mill
roadball built but pasta. But ultimately they were getting speed bumps.
(03:20):
So we're stopping the waste, We're focusing it back on
the basics, and that remaining funding is going to go
towards priority projects such as Eastern Busway, more trained for
the city rail link, in local roading upgrades across Auckland.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So look, tomorrow we're going to be released from Auckland
Auckland's petrol tax. And again cynically speaking, here comes another one,
just like the other one. So your plan includses a
proposed increase in fuel taxes by twelve cents a leader
in a couple three years time rise into twenty two cents.
We're increasing registration fees by fifty bucks over two years.
What do you say to those households who are struggling
(03:57):
just with the current economic pressure.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well, we've made it very clear this government is not
increasing fuel size and road user charges in this term.
That's what we've delivered as part of our transport plack
package were announced last week. There were no increases in
fuel excise and road user charges. But in the long term,
we do need to pay for the infrastructure that New
Zealand does need. It does cost money to maintain our roads,
(04:22):
it does cost money to build new roads, and so
we do need to increase those revenues in the long term.
And the reality is by twenty twenty seven there would
have been six years without any increase in fuel excise
or road user charges, and the cost of building roads
maintaining roads has continued to increase, and so we will
be increasing it in twenty twenty seven and in the
(04:43):
year's following so that we can continue to maintain those
roads and the new roads that New Zealanders expect, that
we can grow our economy and boost productivity, which is
really important to our country.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So the ninety one percent boost for NZTA, big boost,
fifty percent for local councils. That's the boost there to
fix and prevent potholes. That sounds impressive, just one small detail.
Have we got the manpower to get on top of
these such a simple yet frustrating issue.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Well we do. NDTA will be contracting with a range
of contractors that are actually looking at changes to their
contracting model to look more at how they can use
a wide array of array of contractors to assist with
the task. But ultimately, this money is not just it's
not just an increase in funding for fixing and preventing potholes,
but it's ring fencing that funding towards the activities which
(05:35):
are most important. And so we'll be ring fencing, that
those funds for maintaining which means reselling the road, reabilitating them,
fixing the drainage, those key elements of maintaining the roading network.
So it's not just being spent on other things which
which it is easy. It's easy, and I think the
previous government was actually proposing to use the road the
(05:56):
road maintenance budget to actually be used on cycle ways
or with ring fence ad just those key activities which
are fortaining and preventing potholes on our roads. So we'll
be very clear around our expectations and we expect we
expect to see that the agency, but also local councils
(06:16):
really focus on those key outcomes that New Zealand motorists
expect to see.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
What about the role of tolls that will be played
when it comes to the rows of national significance. How
far have you got with your plans on what roads
will be told and sort of how much.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Well, we've said very clearly that any road that needs
recommend should have a toll. We will toll and if
you go around the rest of the world, that's how
a lot of new infrastructure is built using tolls. It
means that people who use it, pay for it, and
it's another way that you can raise revenue to ensure
that we can actually fund the infrastructure that New Zealand needs.
(06:54):
We've got a massive infrastructure deficit as a country. We've
got a massive roading infrastructure deficit of a country and
we need to get on top of it. What about it.
So when it comes to those sorry, carry on. So
when it comes to building them, it's really important. We've
got tolling as an option to pay for it. But
also by tolling it, it means that we're not putting
pressure on the remainder of the transport budget, which which
(07:17):
means we can protect those important maintenance budgets for those
rural state highways and those local councils so they can
continue to look after their own roading infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
What about the alternative revenue options like public private partnerships.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, well we've said all all types of revenue options
or funding financing options should be on the table to
build the infrastructure this country needs. We've got an idity,
we've got an infrastructure deficit as a country, and we
need to we need to be opened to utilizing those
In the last government was very opposed to public private partnerships.
There are opposed to anything with the word private in it,
(07:52):
and we've actually said, well, we need to be open
to that so we can actually get things done as
a country. We're a small country at the bottom of
the world and we don't have the luxury to sit
around and pick and choose. We've actually got to be
opened to you using all types of funding and financing
options to get infrastructure done. But what we won't do
is what the last government did, which was the rought
of the regional fuel tax, where they collected hundreds of
(08:15):
millions of dollars and then failed to spend it. That
was a rought. We're getting rid of it. It ends
tomorrow and that's great news for Auckland.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Is where are we at with congestion charging? In various
sittings cities obviously Auckland and Wellington probably be a notable
couple of obvious ones. What's your where are we at
with that?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Well? The Government policy statement on transport says the Government's
committed to it. It's part of our coalition agreement with
the Party to develop and parst legislation to enable time
of use charging. That policy work is underway at the
moment there's a number of things that we have to
work through as a government, and we're doing that at
the moment. It's something which is a priority in Auckland.
(08:55):
The key point back about time of use charging. Though
it's not a revenue tool, it's about making sure we
maximize the efficiency of the network. It's about making sure
that we can spread the load of traffic during peak
times so that we can get more efficiency out of
the network. That's the key priority list governments identified for
(09:16):
time of use charging, and I believe that's the same
priority the Mayor of Auckland has in regards to how
it should be done. So we're working through the policy
on that at the moment and we'll have more to
say once decisions have been made.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
What about that, What do you say to that? There's
a group about academics who criticize the plan saying it's
a step backwards on climate change, focuses too much on
road transports. What's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well, I just think they're totally out of touch with reality.
The vast, vast majority of New Zealanders get in wake
up and get in their cars to go to work,
and that is that is the main way New Zealanders
get around, and we actually need to make sure we
are building the infrastructure so that New Zealanders can get
where they need to go. And the reality, you know,
(09:58):
has to come as our vehicle fleet electrifies, more and
more people will be dry on lower mission or zero
emission vehicles. But at the same time, they're still going
to be roads to drive on, and so we're building
the infrastructure for the future. Regardless of what type of
vehicle people are driving, whether it's diesel, petrol, hybrid plug
(10:19):
and hybrid electric hydrogen, they're still going to need roads
to drive on. And last time I look, buses drive
on roads. And so with the liarung infrastructure that New
Zealanders need, that New Zealanders rely upon, and it's the
infrastructure for the future.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
What about the walking and cycling you're doing anything with that?
Are we just going to park that for a while
and focus on the roads.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Well, well, we can actually reduce the amount going into
walking and cycling because ultimately, in the last number of
years we've seen that their amount of money going into
that is a priority for the last government been too much.
We've seen the impact that it's had on many small businesses,
where there's been a disregard around car parking and those issues.
(11:00):
We need to rebalance that. So yes, they're still funding
for walking and cycling, but we want to make sure
it's going going into areas where there's a priority, where
it's a priority, and we also want to make sure
we're taking the views of local communities and local businesses
with us as decisions made around where cycle ways should happen.
So it's about making sure there's a balance rather than
just simply like the last government building a cycling bridge
(11:22):
across the Harbor Bridge, which was an absolute waste of money.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So we've got the roads of national significance making comeback
seventeen projects. We've got alongside that eleven roads of regional
significance because they don't get built tomorrow. So I guess
the big question for for any government is how do
your future proof this? That obviously your plan. Ideally you
want to stay in power as long as you can,
but you don't want us get what you want, So
(11:45):
future proofing wise, how do you is there have you
had any sort of across the sort of table discussions
with labor, But if there's a change of government, they're
not just going to shove it in the bin and
build a few more bikeways.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Well, I think when you look at where the Labor
Party was towards the end of their term, much more
open to roading infrastructure than they were earlier in that term.
So I think they have come. They have come the
right way after having canceled the Roads of National Significance
back in twenty seventeen when they were first elected. But
the thing is, there's a number of things we need
(12:19):
to do. We need to make sure we've actually got
contracts signed, we need to make sure we've actually got
projects consented. Fast track consenting is such a critical part
of actually being able to deliver the roading infrastructure we need.
If you look at the Roads of National Significance, I
think only one of them, one of the new ones
we've identified, actually has a consent and that's because for
(12:40):
the last six years we haven't been consenting major roading
projects and so having fast track consenting is such a
critical part we got to build that pipeline of infrastructure
that New Zealand needs. Is a country and whilst you
know some people might raise concerns about fast track concent
I just look at the roading needs we have as
a country and say well, if we don't have fast
track consents, we're never going to get things built. So
(13:02):
we need to have fast track consenting. We never have
a one stop so we can actually have that pipeline,
that credible pipeline of infrastructure projects that New Zealand needs
on a plan so it's ready to go, so we
can build that pipeline, give confidence to the contracting sector,
and also have that range of funding and financing tools
so we can actually have those progressive contracts continue over
(13:25):
time rather than the stop start mentality we've had labor excellent.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Hey Siming and Brown, I really appreciate your time and
your answers to staffenon. Thanks so much. Enjoy the rest
of your day.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News talks'b.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Well, of course, tomorrow, I think is when Auckland does
expect their fuel price to drop by twelve cents as
the Auckland fuel tax expires. Wayne Brown had said scraping
the tax would make it harder to fund desperately needed
transport infrastructure if it wasn't replaced with other funding. Well,
earlier this week the government's policy statement on land transport,
(00:31):
which covers the next ten years. There's twenty two billion
dollar plan aiming to drive economic growth and growth improve
productivity through a series of strategic investments over the next decade,
and highlights include a forty one percent increase in funding
for public transport services, boosts for pothole prevention and road maintenance,
and a revival of the Roads of National Significance program
(00:52):
and some also Roads of Regional Significance. So I thought
we'd better dig into this, and so we're joined now
by the Transport Minister. He's a local government minister of
course as well, and it is Sime and Brown.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So seven billion dollars a year over the next ten
years to build and maintain a transport system to help
us get around a cynical question, will we notice.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, absolutely, we're focused not just on spending taxpayers money
on improving our transport system, but actually on getting outcomes
for New Zealanders. Ultimately, when people pay fuel tex at
the pump or road user charges by looking at outcomes.
And so we've made it very clear that we want
to see improved outcome in terms of road maintenance. We're
(01:43):
setting clear expectations of the agency around how many, what
percentage of the road actually needs to be maintained on
an annual basis, and we're setting very clear expectations around
the roads of regional significance and roads of national significance
which New Zealanders want. And starting from tomorrow, MDT will
be improving its response to potholes, improving the maintenance that
(02:06):
it's doing with writing network and also we're going to
see been putting more money towards in sport as well
so that we can give a more reliable service. But
ultimately you're right and New Zealanders have high expectations and
that's my job as Minister of Transport is to make
sure that this delivers the outcomes New Zealanders want.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Look, just backing up on the regional fuel tax, but
an Auckland being dumped as of tomorrow. And Wayne Brown
wasn't a fan? Will Wayne Brown love your plan? Did
you check with him much? Checking with him much about this?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, ultimately the regional fuel tax in Auckland was being
used to fund speed bumps, and he wasn't a fan
of speed bumps, and neither am I. And so we're
stopping funding for speed bumps. And the reality and as
and as people know, hundreds of millions of dollars of
that Auckland regional fuel tax wasn't even being spent. It
(02:57):
was sitting in a bank account doing nothing. And so
we're canceling the tax one because it was being spent
on the wrong priority speed bumps, cycle lanes, red light cameras.
It wasn't actually building the infrastructure that New Zealanders thought
they were paying for. Most Aucklanders thought every time they
filled up they were going to get something like mill
roadball built but pasta. But ultimately they were getting speed bumps.
(03:20):
So we're stopping the waste, We're focusing it back on
the basics, and that remaining funding is going to go
towards priority projects such as Eastern Busway, more trained for
the city rail link, in local roading upgrades across Auckland.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So look, tomorrow we're going to be released from Auckland
Auckland's petrol tax. And again cynically speaking, here comes another one,
just like the other one. So your plan includses a
proposed increase in fuel taxes by twelve cents a leader
in a couple three years time rise into twenty two cents.
We're increasing registration fees by fifty bucks over two years.
What do you say to those households who are struggling
(03:57):
just with the current economic pressure.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well, we've made it very clear this government is not
increasing fuel size and road user charges in this term.
That's what we've delivered as part of our transport plack
package were announced last week. There were no increases in
fuel excise and road user charges. But in the long term,
we do need to pay for the infrastructure that New
Zealand does need. It does cost money to maintain our roads,
(04:22):
it does cost money to build new roads, and so
we do need to increase those revenues in the long term.
And the reality is by twenty twenty seven there would
have been six years without any increase in fuel excise
or road user charges, and the cost of building roads
maintaining roads has continued to increase, and so we will
be increasing it in twenty twenty seven and in the
(04:43):
year's following so that we can continue to maintain those
roads and the new roads that New Zealanders expect, that
we can grow our economy and boost productivity, which is
really important to our country.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So the ninety one percent boost for NZTA, big boost,
fifty percent for local councils. That's the boost there to
fix and prevent potholes. That sounds impressive, just one small detail.
Have we got the manpower to get on top of
these such a simple yet frustrating issue.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Well we do. NDTA will be contracting with a range
of contractors that are actually looking at changes to their
contracting model to look more at how they can use
a wide array of array of contractors to assist with
the task. But ultimately, this money is not just it's
not just an increase in funding for fixing and preventing potholes,
but it's ring fencing that funding towards the activities which
(05:35):
are most important. And so we'll be ring fencing, that
those funds for maintaining which means reselling the road, reabilitating them,
fixing the drainage, those key elements of maintaining the roading network.
So it's not just being spent on other things which
which it is easy. It's easy, and I think the
previous government was actually proposing to use the road the
(05:56):
road maintenance budget to actually be used on cycle ways
or with ring fence ad just those key activities which
are fortaining and preventing potholes on our roads. So we'll
be very clear around our expectations and we expect we
expect to see that the agency, but also local councils
(06:16):
really focus on those key outcomes that New Zealand motorists
expect to see.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
What about the role of tolls that will be played
when it comes to the rows of national significance. How
far have you got with your plans on what roads
will be told and sort of how much.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Well, we've said very clearly that any road that needs
recommend should have a toll. We will toll and if
you go around the rest of the world, that's how
a lot of new infrastructure is built using tolls. It
means that people who use it, pay for it, and
it's another way that you can raise revenue to ensure
that we can actually fund the infrastructure that New Zealand needs.
(06:54):
We've got a massive infrastructure deficit as a country. We've
got a massive roading infrastructure deficit of a country and
we need to get on top of it. What about it.
So when it comes to those sorry, carry on. So
when it comes to building them, it's really important. We've
got tolling as an option to pay for it. But
also by tolling it, it means that we're not putting
pressure on the remainder of the transport budget, which which
(07:17):
means we can protect those important maintenance budgets for those
rural state highways and those local councils so they can
continue to look after their own roading infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
What about the alternative revenue options like public private partnerships.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, well we've said all all types of revenue options
or funding financing options should be on the table to
build the infrastructure this country needs. We've got an idity,
we've got an infrastructure deficit as a country, and we
need to we need to be opened to utilizing those
In the last government was very opposed to public private partnerships.
There are opposed to anything with the word private in it,
(07:52):
and we've actually said, well, we need to be open
to that so we can actually get things done as
a country. We're a small country at the bottom of
the world and we don't have the luxury to sit
around and pick and choose. We've actually got to be
opened to you using all types of funding and financing
options to get infrastructure done. But what we won't do
is what the last government did, which was the rought
of the regional fuel tax, where they collected hundreds of
(08:15):
millions of dollars and then failed to spend it. That
was a rought. We're getting rid of it. It ends
tomorrow and that's great news for Auckland.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Is where are we at with congestion charging? In various
sittings cities obviously Auckland and Wellington probably be a notable
couple of obvious ones. What's your where are we at
with that?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Well? The Government policy statement on transport says the Government's
committed to it. It's part of our coalition agreement with
the Party to develop and parst legislation to enable time
of use charging. That policy work is underway at the
moment there's a number of things that we have to
work through as a government, and we're doing that at
the moment. It's something which is a priority in Auckland.
(08:55):
The key point back about time of use charging. Though
it's not a revenue tool, it's about making sure we
maximize the efficiency of the network. It's about making sure
that we can spread the load of traffic during peak
times so that we can get more efficiency out of
the network. That's the key priority list governments identified for
(09:16):
time of use charging, and I believe that's the same
priority the Mayor of Auckland has in regards to how
it should be done. So we're working through the policy
on that at the moment and we'll have more to
say once decisions have been made.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
What about that, What do you say to that? There's
a group about academics who criticize the plan saying it's
a step backwards on climate change, focuses too much on
road transports. What's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well, I just think they're totally out of touch with reality.
The vast, vast majority of New Zealanders get in wake
up and get in their cars to go to work,
and that is that is the main way New Zealanders
get around, and we actually need to make sure we
are building the infrastructure so that New Zealanders can get
where they need to go. And the reality, you know,
(09:58):
has to come as our vehicle fleet electrifies, more and
more people will be dry on lower mission or zero
emission vehicles. But at the same time, they're still going
to be roads to drive on, and so we're building
the infrastructure for the future. Regardless of what type of
vehicle people are driving, whether it's diesel, petrol, hybrid plug
(10:19):
and hybrid electric hydrogen, they're still going to need roads
to drive on. And last time I look, buses drive
on roads. And so with the liarung infrastructure that New
Zealanders need, that New Zealanders rely upon, and it's the
infrastructure for the future.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
What about the walking and cycling you're doing anything with that?
Are we just going to park that for a while
and focus on the roads.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Well, well, we can actually reduce the amount going into
walking and cycling because ultimately, in the last number of
years we've seen that their amount of money going into
that is a priority for the last government been too much.
We've seen the impact that it's had on many small businesses,
where there's been a disregard around car parking and those issues.
(11:00):
We need to rebalance that. So yes, they're still funding
for walking and cycling, but we want to make sure
it's going going into areas where there's a priority, where
it's a priority, and we also want to make sure
we're taking the views of local communities and local businesses
with us as decisions made around where cycle ways should happen.
So it's about making sure there's a balance rather than
just simply like the last government building a cycling bridge
(11:22):
across the Harbor Bridge, which was an absolute waste of money.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So we've got the roads of national significance making comeback
seventeen projects. We've got alongside that eleven roads of regional
significance because they don't get built tomorrow. So I guess
the big question for for any government is how do
your future proof this? That obviously your plan. Ideally you
want to stay in power as long as you can,
but you don't want us get what you want, So
(11:45):
future proofing wise, how do you is there have you
had any sort of across the sort of table discussions
with labor, But if there's a change of government, they're
not just going to shove it in the bin and
build a few more bikeways.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Well, I think when you look at where the Labor
Party was towards the end of their term, much more
open to roading infrastructure than they were earlier in that term.
So I think they have come. They have come the
right way after having canceled the Roads of National Significance
back in twenty seventeen when they were first elected. But
the thing is, there's a number of things we need
(12:19):
to do. We need to make sure we've actually got
contracts signed, we need to make sure we've actually got
projects consented. Fast track consenting is such a critical part
of actually being able to deliver the roading infrastructure we need.
If you look at the Roads of National Significance, I
think only one of them, one of the new ones
we've identified, actually has a consent and that's because for
(12:40):
the last six years we haven't been consenting major roading
projects and so having fast track consenting is such a
critical part we got to build that pipeline of infrastructure
that New Zealand needs. Is a country and whilst you
know some people might raise concerns about fast track concent
I just look at the roading needs we have as
a country and say well, if we don't have fast
track consents, we're never going to get things built. So
(13:02):
we need to have fast track consenting. We never have
a one stop so we can actually have that pipeline,
that credible pipeline of infrastructure projects that New Zealand needs
on a plan so it's ready to go, so we
can build that pipeline, give confidence to the contracting sector,
and also have that range of funding and financing tools
so we can actually have those progressive contracts continue over
(13:25):
time rather than the stop start mentality we've had labor excellent.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Hey Siming and Brown, I really appreciate your time and
your answers to staffenon. Thanks so much. Enjoy the rest
of your day.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
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