August 31, 2024 • 9 mins
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon is about to jet off with a senior business delegation to Malaysia followed by South Korea.
Retired Professor of International Relations Stephen Hoadley joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss the importance and what we can expect.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He's a retired professor and international relations and professor Stephen
Hardley joins me.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Now, good afternoon, Good afternoon. Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I was just saying before he joined us, reading through
the press release, that are sort of struggling to get
excited about the trip, but can you make it exciting
for us?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'll try. It is a kind of Pillian trip. Look,
Luxon has been everywhere else. He's been to China, He's
met Joe Biden, the President of the US. His trade
minister has been to India. Winston Peters has been very active.
So in a sense, this is a kind of gap filler.
So you're right, it's hard to make it exciting. I'll
(00:53):
try to just indicate one or two facts that the
Koreans are the fifth best trade partner from time to time,
sometimes bumping Great Britain out of number five position. The
Malaysians are often in the top ten, number nine, number ten,
number eleven from time to time, and both of them
(01:14):
are very old partners. They go back to the Korean War.
In the case of Korea, they go back to the
Malaysian emergency and they fight against the Indonesian terrorists in
the nineteen fifties when the SAS really matured in Malaysia,
and so there's a lot of history there. So maybe
(01:35):
it's a sentimental journey. Maybe we should ask it like that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, well, actually, as you said, he's been everywhere else.
As I mean, it's important though, isn't it. And how
much value is it to the business delegations that it's
led by the prime minister.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
A lot of value. The prime minister opens the door,
he doesn't do the negotiation. The business people themselves will
actually sign the contracts, but it is important to have
a prestigious person he can meet Ibrahim, the Prime Minister
of Malaysia or President Yun, President of Korea, and then
(02:13):
the officials will take over and they will nut out
the deal. Now, this all is in a larger context
that we're trying to diversify from China. We're not giving
up on China. China is a good customer, number one customer,
but everybody's a little bit edgy about China. So the
current government and indeed the last government too, saying, look,
(02:37):
diversification is the word. We need to find other trade
partners to balance the China portfolio to make sure that
if China turns bad, which you know, the Chinese economy
is not looking very good at these days, if they
stop importing our goods, we need alternatives. We need if
China becomes more militarily aggressive, we need alternatives and we
(03:02):
need our friends around the world. So this is all
of filling in creating a multi purpose set of friends, partners,
associates in different parts of the world to make sure
that New Zealand has options.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Talks about Malaysia and New Zealand being well established defense
partners and what way do we work with them. I
think there's a reference to transnational crime as well.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yes, that's well. I'm more in the geopolitical area. And
going way back to nineteen seventy one, New Zealand had
troops in Singapore and eventually Singapore became stronger than New Zealand,
so they said, thank you very much, we don't need
you anymore. Then New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia and Great Britain
(03:50):
and Australia formed the Five Power Defense Agreement. So Malaysia
is all part of that complex. And the New Zealand
Defense Forces will exercise every year with one or more
of the five of the other four partners. So that's
important in the sense of maintaining a military readiness, maintaining
(04:10):
a stabilize the Southeast Asian region, which as you know,
went through the Vietnam War and the confrontation with Malaysia,
with Indonesia and a number of other turbulent events. So
things are looking pretty good right now. The Southeast Asia
is pretty calm. Malaysia is a good trade partner, and
(04:31):
so the Prime Minister and going there is reinforcing that
and in a sense saying let's keep it up. We're
doing well. Trade is good, State stability is good. We're
holding our own against against the rising China in a
peaceful way without provoking war. And we need we need
(04:53):
to keep doing this.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Is there anything in particularly that we'll be looking to
come away from this trip with or as sort of
just a reinforcement of relationships. How will we judge success?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Well, that's a very good point, and I can't put
any particular point forward that indicate except more of the same.
Notice that the two other ministers that the flux is
taking with him, not the Defense minister, not the Foreign minister,
not the Trade minister, but the Economic Development Minister and
(05:25):
another one, and so this is very much an economic focus.
It's the idea to stimulate New Zealand's exports to make
sure that because New Zealand runs a trade deficit with
those two countries, China is about the only country New
Zealand runs a trade surplus with, so we're always in debt,
we're always borrowing to keep up with the deficit in trade,
(05:48):
and so obviously this is a major effort that the
government is making. So no, I can't point to any
specific thing. There's digital commerce is always at the forefront.
New Zealand is at the forefront of trying to get
more and more countries into the digital trade arrangements. But
aside from that, I think we'll have to wait and
(06:10):
see in the press release. But I hope I haven't
failed to make it extending.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I was thinking of it as just a mildly cheeky question,
but because the thing the other thing just as a
last comment, and so it looked like my impression from
reading the press release and talking about the visit to Malaysia,
and it seemed to me more substance to the Malaysian trip,
and at the end it says Carea is a like
minded democracy that sees the challenging challenges facing the endo
(06:40):
Pacific region in similar ways to New Zealand. I look
forward to continuing my discussions. It sort of looks like
he's going to Malaysia to do some stuff and then oh,
by the way, let's pop into Korea and say, hi,
is that fair enough or is that a that a
bit too simplistic.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Well, I put it the other way around. I think
career is more important than Malaysia. I'm sorry about that, Ibrahim,
and oh you knows people in Malaysia. But Korea is
on the front line with Korea is making up with
Japan at long last, and standing with the United States
in balancing against China. New Zealand has a very long
(07:17):
military relationship with China. My daughters served there as a
commander in the Navy in the Armistice Commission, observing the
the DMZ and making sure the North Koreans don't do
anything silly. So I would say Korea is even more important,
and the Korea is a better trade partner. They're they're
often number five, number six in the trade list, and
(07:39):
so I would I would say if I were choosing
between one of the other. Korea comes ahead of Malaysia.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Just quickly as a history list. And you mentioned about
the back in the fifties with the was that the
Milayan emergency where the SIS New Zealand he says a
large role on that.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
That's correct, you know that, well, that was partly the
emergency was partly the Indonesian confrontation or Confrontasi as they
called it. The Indonesians sent militia into Sabah, which is
part of Malaysia, and the Malaysians called for help. New
Zealand was there, The SAS was there. They moved out
(08:15):
of Singapore, went into the jungle and that's where the
SAS then what one its medals and really developed its
strength as a jungle combatant to fight against the Indonesians.
But yeah, there was a little bit. The British did
most of the heavy lifting with the Malaysian emergency against
(08:35):
the communist terrorists that is in Malaya. A proper I
just thought it was all working together for a common goal,
which is stability, democracy and eventually trade.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I asked that question of slightly personal interests because my
dad was an interpreter for the British essays and had
with nonmilitary training and these we've been reading his diaries
about his adventures which involved some class ships, so I
just thought I quickly quizy on that. Hey, Stephen, I
really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
This no, okay, you most welcome you anytime.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He's a retired professor and international relations and professor Stephen
Hardley joins me.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Now, good afternoon, Good afternoon. Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I was just saying before he joined us, reading through
the press release, that are sort of struggling to get
excited about the trip, but can you make it exciting
for us?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'll try. It is a kind of Pillian trip. Look,
Luxon has been everywhere else. He's been to China, He's
met Joe Biden, the President of the US. His trade
minister has been to India. Winston Peters has been very active.
So in a sense, this is a kind of gap filler.
So you're right, it's hard to make it exciting. I'll
(00:53):
try to just indicate one or two facts that the
Koreans are the fifth best trade partner from time to time,
sometimes bumping Great Britain out of number five position. The
Malaysians are often in the top ten, number nine, number ten,
number eleven from time to time, and both of them
(01:14):
are very old partners. They go back to the Korean War.
In the case of Korea, they go back to the
Malaysian emergency and they fight against the Indonesian terrorists in
the nineteen fifties when the SAS really matured in Malaysia,
and so there's a lot of history there. So maybe
(01:35):
it's a sentimental journey. Maybe we should ask it like that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, well, actually, as you said, he's been everywhere else.
As I mean, it's important though, isn't it. And how
much value is it to the business delegations that it's
led by the prime minister.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
A lot of value. The prime minister opens the door,
he doesn't do the negotiation. The business people themselves will
actually sign the contracts, but it is important to have
a prestigious person he can meet Ibrahim, the Prime Minister
of Malaysia or President Yun, President of Korea, and then
(02:13):
the officials will take over and they will nut out
the deal. Now, this all is in a larger context
that we're trying to diversify from China. We're not giving
up on China. China is a good customer, number one customer,
but everybody's a little bit edgy about China. So the
current government and indeed the last government too, saying, look,
(02:37):
diversification is the word. We need to find other trade
partners to balance the China portfolio to make sure that
if China turns bad, which you know, the Chinese economy
is not looking very good at these days, if they
stop importing our goods, we need alternatives. We need if
China becomes more militarily aggressive, we need alternatives and we
(03:02):
need our friends around the world. So this is all
of filling in creating a multi purpose set of friends, partners,
associates in different parts of the world to make sure
that New Zealand has options.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Talks about Malaysia and New Zealand being well established defense
partners and what way do we work with them. I
think there's a reference to transnational crime as well.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yes, that's well. I'm more in the geopolitical area. And
going way back to nineteen seventy one, New Zealand had
troops in Singapore and eventually Singapore became stronger than New Zealand,
so they said, thank you very much, we don't need
you anymore. Then New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia and Great Britain
(03:50):
and Australia formed the Five Power Defense Agreement. So Malaysia
is all part of that complex. And the New Zealand
Defense Forces will exercise every year with one or more
of the five of the other four partners. So that's
important in the sense of maintaining a military readiness, maintaining
(04:10):
a stabilize the Southeast Asian region, which as you know,
went through the Vietnam War and the confrontation with Malaysia,
with Indonesia and a number of other turbulent events. So
things are looking pretty good right now. The Southeast Asia
is pretty calm. Malaysia is a good trade partner, and
(04:31):
so the Prime Minister and going there is reinforcing that
and in a sense saying let's keep it up. We're
doing well. Trade is good, State stability is good. We're
holding our own against against the rising China in a
peaceful way without provoking war. And we need we need
(04:53):
to keep doing this.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Is there anything in particularly that we'll be looking to
come away from this trip with or as sort of
just a reinforcement of relationships. How will we judge success?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Well, that's a very good point, and I can't put
any particular point forward that indicate except more of the same.
Notice that the two other ministers that the flux is
taking with him, not the Defense minister, not the Foreign minister,
not the Trade minister, but the Economic Development Minister and
(05:25):
another one, and so this is very much an economic focus.
It's the idea to stimulate New Zealand's exports to make
sure that because New Zealand runs a trade deficit with
those two countries, China is about the only country New
Zealand runs a trade surplus with, so we're always in debt,
we're always borrowing to keep up with the deficit in trade,
(05:48):
and so obviously this is a major effort that the
government is making. So no, I can't point to any
specific thing. There's digital commerce is always at the forefront.
New Zealand is at the forefront of trying to get
more and more countries into the digital trade arrangements. But
aside from that, I think we'll have to wait and
(06:10):
see in the press release. But I hope I haven't
failed to make it extending.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I was thinking of it as just a mildly cheeky question,
but because the thing the other thing just as a
last comment, and so it looked like my impression from
reading the press release and talking about the visit to Malaysia,
and it seemed to me more substance to the Malaysian trip,
and at the end it says Carea is a like
minded democracy that sees the challenging challenges facing the endo
(06:40):
Pacific region in similar ways to New Zealand. I look
forward to continuing my discussions. It sort of looks like
he's going to Malaysia to do some stuff and then oh,
by the way, let's pop into Korea and say, hi,
is that fair enough or is that a that a
bit too simplistic.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Well, I put it the other way around. I think
career is more important than Malaysia. I'm sorry about that, Ibrahim,
and oh you knows people in Malaysia. But Korea is
on the front line with Korea is making up with
Japan at long last, and standing with the United States
in balancing against China. New Zealand has a very long
(07:17):
military relationship with China. My daughters served there as a
commander in the Navy in the Armistice Commission, observing the
the DMZ and making sure the North Koreans don't do
anything silly. So I would say Korea is even more important,
and the Korea is a better trade partner. They're they're
often number five, number six in the trade list, and
(07:39):
so I would I would say if I were choosing
between one of the other. Korea comes ahead of Malaysia.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Just quickly as a history list. And you mentioned about
the back in the fifties with the was that the
Milayan emergency where the SIS New Zealand he says a
large role on that.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
That's correct, you know that, well, that was partly the
emergency was partly the Indonesian confrontation or Confrontasi as they
called it. The Indonesians sent militia into Sabah, which is
part of Malaysia, and the Malaysians called for help. New
Zealand was there, The SAS was there. They moved out
(08:15):
of Singapore, went into the jungle and that's where the
SAS then what one its medals and really developed its
strength as a jungle combatant to fight against the Indonesians.
But yeah, there was a little bit. The British did
most of the heavy lifting with the Malaysian emergency against
(08:35):
the communist terrorists that is in Malaya. A proper I
just thought it was all working together for a common goal,
which is stability, democracy and eventually trade.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
I asked that question of slightly personal interests because my
dad was an interpreter for the British essays and had
with nonmilitary training and these we've been reading his diaries
about his adventures which involved some class ships, so I
just thought I quickly quizy on that. Hey, Stephen, I
really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
This no, okay, you most welcome you anytime.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk ZEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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