October 5, 2024 • 11 mins
New Zealand Navy ship HMNZS Manawanui sank this morning after running aground on a reef off the coast of Samoa last night.
The ship caught fire, but the Chief of Navy says it's too soon to speculate on what caused the incident.
Minister of Defence Judith Collins joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss more.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
New Zealand Navy ship h M n Z S Mono
and Nui sank this morning after running aground on a
reef off the coast of Summer last night. Excuse me,
the ship caught fire, but the Chief of Navy says
it's too soon to speculate and watch what has caused
the incident. Defense Minister Judith Collins is with me now.
Good afternoon, good after Have you slept it all? It
(00:33):
happened last night before eleven. You must have had a
pretty horrendous It's been a pretty pretty busy time for you,
hasn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I was surprised by the Chief Defense Force about twenty
or maybe minutes past seven last night and kept updated. Yeah.
I do tend to sleep pretty well, and I got
up using me early to get the next update. But
the update was there. It was looking like it was
going to keel over, and of course it did.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
What was it doing there, It was.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Doing survey work for that reef. So, as you will
be aware, some more, like many other Pacific nations, has
been subject to tsunami and earthquakes and all sorts of
other things, and those reefs. That releaf was last surveyed
in nineteen eighty seven. So therefore what there is, it's
very little information. It's it is not safe at the moment,
(01:31):
and so that's what it was doing, was trying to
surveying that reef as it in doing other places as well.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Is that what mano Wanoui's principal purposes.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's also been involved with helping to deal with ammunitions,
you know, World War two ammunitions, diving all those sorts
of things that you need around the Pacific. I mean,
we've still got a lot of that stuff in the Pacific,
and so it's been working on that recently. I think
the last pace it was somewhere was Vanuatu dealing with
(02:03):
those sorts of issues. So it's not worship. It was
never built as a worship. It was a it was
an all rigged tender for Norway and it was fifteen
years old when the Government of the day brought it
about five years ago. But it's not a worship, but
it is you know, it's painted gray and it's pretty
(02:24):
much it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Of course, you can be a hugely relieved, as we
all are, that crew and passengers are all okay in
a successful evacuation.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I guess if that's the right word, I can't think of.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think it's a big saving grace O of the
entire terrible incident is that nobody actually lost their lives,
and it could have been gone from a terrible situation
into a massive tragedy. So I'm just pleased that everyone
got off. And though it was touch and go in
the early hours this morning, as one of the ribs,
(02:58):
one of the boats on basically it's on the Amanahanui
capsized over the reef because apparently it's very heavy seas
and in the middle of the night, and those people
who are in that got themselves up and onto the
reef and walked across to land, so they were no
(03:19):
doubt have some cut, some bruises.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And from that as well, I do assume that based
on that that weather conditions or the sea conditions played
a part in whatever happened.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Oh, I don't know. And that's what we do know
is that it wasn't good this morning when they were
you know, there's going to be a quarter of inquiry
has already been set up now hasn't been that's being
set up and that will come to look at all
the evidence, and so that can put an end to
the speculation, because frankly, I think there's so much speculation
(03:51):
because of course naturally people want to know what's happened,
as do I. But I haven't got the effects and
we need to have those.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Can you tell us what a court of inquiries processes
and sort of timeline broadly from any particular precedence or no.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well, what I can say is that the Chief of
Navy said that it starts setting itself up and it
will take whatever time it takes to get to the
bottom of it. But you can imagine the Navy does
keep very good records, and you can also imagine that
they will be straight onto this. This is a big
deal for Navy. They are really upset about it. And
(04:28):
as I say, the only saving grace is that nobody
actually died.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I mean common sense or would help us.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
It would allow us to infer that given they were
surveying the reef they were they were probably in a
position where they had to be in close proximity to it. Anyway,
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Well, I don't think that it's speculation. I think that's
pretty clear. You need to be in order to survey it, obviously,
But look, I just I can't go to any other
detail because number one, you know, I can't bridge this
an inquiry, and secondly I don't really have the facts.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
But okay, well you can just say no if you
can't answer each question. Was it actually engaged in the
survey when trouble hit?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I can't tell you that, but I can say that
that was a job to do that. So whether they
had already started or not as no matter.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Do we have a lead on whether it was human
or technical error or mechanical.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
No, we have veryous speculative comments on social media, but
we don't have a lead. I think we simply can't.
And it's understand that these matters are treated very seriously.
I imagine that it will all come out in the
I wouldn't say full of the time. I'll say as
soon as it is able to What sort.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Of briefings do you get on what the Navy know
compared to what you know? Obviously maybe you can or
can't share that stuff with us, but do you get
a briefing about information that you just simply have to
keep to yourself because of the court inquiry?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I sometimes get information that would be I need to
keep quiet about. But then I've also got other agencies
that I'm pretty used to doing that with security agencies.
So I just my view is I'll speak about what
we can publicly say, otherwise will wait.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
For the r And look, I I have read comments
that you've said that you've referred to avoiding the loss
of life as a triumph, and also you said you
could never be embarrassed by the defense force. But to
be honest, this incident surely is embarrassing, isn't it. The
incident itself, Losing a ship in war is one thing,
but in peace time, well, I.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Just I think it is really unfortunate. I'm just grateful
nobody died, and when it comes to just wait till
the inquiry to see whether there's anything there. But I
know that there are around fifteen thousand New Zealand defense personnel,
civilian and uniform who will be utterly gutted about this today.
(07:01):
And I'm not someone who's going to put the boot
into my team ever.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Good on you.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Now, look in terms of the Navy's inventory, what gap
does this lead leave and with what urgency do we
need to fill it?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Well? It means we don't have the sort of craft
that can go around and do surveys. I mean, that's
important work. I'm wondering whether you know what we need
to do now, because obviously we're doing our defense capability
pant a moment, Do we now need to look at
this area as well, or is there something that is
not necessarily our core business. I'm not sure about that.
(07:39):
That's something that Defense needs to discuss with me and
work out themselves. Everyone's just dealing with the situation right
at the moment, and right now we're very worried about
any environmental impact on the Savon reef and some more
so we're focused on that one, and so which comes next?
Everything else?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
We'll just wait, are you concerned or I mean, this
is probably stuff that's within cabinet, But everyone wants more money.
How much more money do we need for the defense?
Does it place a strain on our budgets?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Again, well, it's quite clearly that New Zealand, like many
other Webster nations, decided in about nineteen ninety to cut
the amount of their defense budget. So that was a
decision made after the end of the fall of the
Berlin Wall. You sort of see that all Western nations,
(08:35):
so clearly we live in very difficult times. We've got
a lot of old kit We've got some new ones
just turned up in the pectories and the p eights,
but we're constantly having to make do an old pit.
And it's like the burrowing seven five sevens that gets
a lot of stick. Were teen years old and they're bought.
(08:57):
This particular ship was fifteen years old when it was bought.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Look, I do really appreciate your time and stuff, and
it just had a slightly lighter I don't know if
we can change channel on this sort of but on
a lighter topic. Has there been I loved that you
were ranked at number five in the mood of the boardroom,
about a hundredth of a point ahead of the Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Has there been much banter within the cabinet about the
rankings and the mood of the boardroom.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
No, we're doing the job. That would be freake seriously
doing the job and our zeriaware. This is a team effort.
One of the great things with mister Christopher Lutson is
let me and our team just get on with the job.
We've got our KPIs get onto them and he's incredibly supportive,
as he has been a freak with all this matter
(09:45):
last night and today.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yes, indeed, well actually I did think that he would
be happy to see his team doing so well.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And that's the whole point. That's I think that's a stick,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, it is. He's really good. He understands not
just one person, that's the whole team.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, Judith, Look, I do really appreciate your time because
I know it's been a it would have been a
fraud sort of, you know, not coming up to twenty
four hours for you. So thank you so much for
your answers and best wishes. Thanks very much, Thanks very
much to bye yeers, bye bye.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Difficult.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
You know, I think it's it is difficult for Judith
because she has Minister of Defense and as she said,
I'm not going to have a crack at my team
and things and that's the job of the Court of
Inquiry and so yeah, but it was interesting just to hear,
you know, that couple of consequences that we don't think
of and Judith was talking about.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You know, there's a lot of speculation on social media,
but of course the next thing that they're concerned about
is the environmental impact. I know that the expression environmental
impact is a red rag to a ball for someone,
but seriously, a ship has just run around and caught
fire and in samar and so it'll be interesting to
see how that story develops as well. We're going to
be doing some talkback shortly on eight hundred and eighty
(10:53):
ten and eighty and look. Two things you can your
response to the interview with Judith Collins there and any questions.
I don't think she could have answered any other questions
I was I was dying to asked her. You ask her,
you know, do we know who was at the helm
and all that sort of stuff, but she was never
going to be able to answer that.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk z'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
New Zealand Navy ship h M n Z S Mono
and Nui sank this morning after running aground on a
reef off the coast of Summer last night. Excuse me,
the ship caught fire, but the Chief of Navy says
it's too soon to speculate and watch what has caused
the incident. Defense Minister Judith Collins is with me now.
Good afternoon, good after Have you slept it all? It
(00:33):
happened last night before eleven. You must have had a
pretty horrendous It's been a pretty pretty busy time for you,
hasn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I was surprised by the Chief Defense Force about twenty
or maybe minutes past seven last night and kept updated. Yeah.
I do tend to sleep pretty well, and I got
up using me early to get the next update. But
the update was there. It was looking like it was
going to keel over, and of course it did.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
What was it doing there, It was.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Doing survey work for that reef. So, as you will
be aware, some more, like many other Pacific nations, has
been subject to tsunami and earthquakes and all sorts of
other things, and those reefs. That releaf was last surveyed
in nineteen eighty seven. So therefore what there is, it's
very little information. It's it is not safe at the moment,
(01:31):
and so that's what it was doing, was trying to
surveying that reef as it in doing other places as well.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Is that what mano Wanoui's principal purposes.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It's also been involved with helping to deal with ammunitions,
you know, World War two ammunitions, diving all those sorts
of things that you need around the Pacific. I mean,
we've still got a lot of that stuff in the Pacific,
and so it's been working on that recently. I think
the last pace it was somewhere was Vanuatu dealing with
(02:03):
those sorts of issues. So it's not worship. It was
never built as a worship. It was a it was
an all rigged tender for Norway and it was fifteen
years old when the Government of the day brought it
about five years ago. But it's not a worship, but
it is you know, it's painted gray and it's pretty
(02:24):
much it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Of course, you can be a hugely relieved, as we
all are, that crew and passengers are all okay in
a successful evacuation.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I guess if that's the right word, I can't think of.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think it's a big saving grace O of the
entire terrible incident is that nobody actually lost their lives,
and it could have been gone from a terrible situation
into a massive tragedy. So I'm just pleased that everyone
got off. And though it was touch and go in
the early hours this morning, as one of the ribs,
(02:58):
one of the boats on basically it's on the Amanahanui
capsized over the reef because apparently it's very heavy seas
and in the middle of the night, and those people
who are in that got themselves up and onto the
reef and walked across to land, so they were no
(03:19):
doubt have some cut, some bruises.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And from that as well, I do assume that based
on that that weather conditions or the sea conditions played
a part in whatever happened.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Oh, I don't know. And that's what we do know
is that it wasn't good this morning when they were
you know, there's going to be a quarter of inquiry
has already been set up now hasn't been that's being
set up and that will come to look at all
the evidence, and so that can put an end to
the speculation, because frankly, I think there's so much speculation
(03:51):
because of course naturally people want to know what's happened,
as do I. But I haven't got the effects and
we need to have those.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Can you tell us what a court of inquiries processes
and sort of timeline broadly from any particular precedence or no.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Well, what I can say is that the Chief of
Navy said that it starts setting itself up and it
will take whatever time it takes to get to the
bottom of it. But you can imagine the Navy does
keep very good records, and you can also imagine that
they will be straight onto this. This is a big
deal for Navy. They are really upset about it. And
(04:28):
as I say, the only saving grace is that nobody
actually died.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
I mean common sense or would help us.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
It would allow us to infer that given they were
surveying the reef they were they were probably in a
position where they had to be in close proximity to it. Anyway,
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Well, I don't think that it's speculation. I think that's
pretty clear. You need to be in order to survey it, obviously,
But look, I just I can't go to any other
detail because number one, you know, I can't bridge this
an inquiry, and secondly I don't really have the facts.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
But okay, well you can just say no if you
can't answer each question. Was it actually engaged in the
survey when trouble hit?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I can't tell you that, but I can say that
that was a job to do that. So whether they
had already started or not as no matter.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Do we have a lead on whether it was human
or technical error or mechanical.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
No, we have veryous speculative comments on social media, but
we don't have a lead. I think we simply can't.
And it's understand that these matters are treated very seriously.
I imagine that it will all come out in the
I wouldn't say full of the time. I'll say as
soon as it is able to What sort.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Of briefings do you get on what the Navy know
compared to what you know? Obviously maybe you can or
can't share that stuff with us, but do you get
a briefing about information that you just simply have to
keep to yourself because of the court inquiry?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
I sometimes get information that would be I need to
keep quiet about. But then I've also got other agencies
that I'm pretty used to doing that with security agencies.
So I just my view is I'll speak about what
we can publicly say, otherwise will wait.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
For the r And look, I I have read comments
that you've said that you've referred to avoiding the loss
of life as a triumph, and also you said you
could never be embarrassed by the defense force. But to
be honest, this incident surely is embarrassing, isn't it. The
incident itself, Losing a ship in war is one thing,
but in peace time, well, I.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Just I think it is really unfortunate. I'm just grateful
nobody died, and when it comes to just wait till
the inquiry to see whether there's anything there. But I
know that there are around fifteen thousand New Zealand defense personnel,
civilian and uniform who will be utterly gutted about this today.
(07:01):
And I'm not someone who's going to put the boot
into my team ever.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Good on you.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Now, look in terms of the Navy's inventory, what gap
does this lead leave and with what urgency do we
need to fill it?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Well? It means we don't have the sort of craft
that can go around and do surveys. I mean, that's
important work. I'm wondering whether you know what we need
to do now, because obviously we're doing our defense capability
pant a moment, Do we now need to look at
this area as well, or is there something that is
not necessarily our core business. I'm not sure about that.
(07:39):
That's something that Defense needs to discuss with me and
work out themselves. Everyone's just dealing with the situation right
at the moment, and right now we're very worried about
any environmental impact on the Savon reef and some more
so we're focused on that one, and so which comes next?
Everything else?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
We'll just wait, are you concerned or I mean, this
is probably stuff that's within cabinet, But everyone wants more money.
How much more money do we need for the defense?
Does it place a strain on our budgets?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Again, well, it's quite clearly that New Zealand, like many
other Webster nations, decided in about nineteen ninety to cut
the amount of their defense budget. So that was a
decision made after the end of the fall of the
Berlin Wall. You sort of see that all Western nations,
(08:35):
so clearly we live in very difficult times. We've got
a lot of old kit We've got some new ones
just turned up in the pectories and the p eights,
but we're constantly having to make do an old pit.
And it's like the burrowing seven five sevens that gets
a lot of stick. Were teen years old and they're bought.
(08:57):
This particular ship was fifteen years old when it was bought.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Look, I do really appreciate your time and stuff, and
it just had a slightly lighter I don't know if
we can change channel on this sort of but on
a lighter topic. Has there been I loved that you
were ranked at number five in the mood of the boardroom,
about a hundredth of a point ahead of the Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Has there been much banter within the cabinet about the
rankings and the mood of the boardroom.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
No, we're doing the job. That would be freake seriously
doing the job and our zeriaware. This is a team effort.
One of the great things with mister Christopher Lutson is
let me and our team just get on with the job.
We've got our KPIs get onto them and he's incredibly supportive,
as he has been a freak with all this matter
(09:45):
last night and today.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yes, indeed, well actually I did think that he would
be happy to see his team doing so well.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And that's the whole point. That's I think that's a stick,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, it is. He's really good. He understands not
just one person, that's the whole team.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, Judith, Look, I do really appreciate your time because
I know it's been a it would have been a
fraud sort of, you know, not coming up to twenty
four hours for you. So thank you so much for
your answers and best wishes. Thanks very much, Thanks very
much to bye yeers, bye bye.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Difficult.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
You know, I think it's it is difficult for Judith
because she has Minister of Defense and as she said,
I'm not going to have a crack at my team
and things and that's the job of the Court of
Inquiry and so yeah, but it was interesting just to hear,
you know, that couple of consequences that we don't think
of and Judith was talking about.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You know, there's a lot of speculation on social media,
but of course the next thing that they're concerned about
is the environmental impact. I know that the expression environmental
impact is a red rag to a ball for someone,
but seriously, a ship has just run around and caught
fire and in samar and so it'll be interesting to
see how that story develops as well. We're going to
be doing some talkback shortly on eight hundred and eighty
(10:53):
ten and eighty and look. Two things you can your
response to the interview with Judith Collins there and any questions.
I don't think she could have answered any other questions
I was I was dying to asked her. You ask her,
you know, do we know who was at the helm
and all that sort of stuff, but she was never
going to be able to answer that.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk z'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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