February 16, 2025 • 12 mins
ACT's David Seymour believes the opposition has drifted too far to the left - and it's dragged the party down.
Seymour has fired back at Labour after a full week of scrutiny and calls to resign following his letter advocating for Philip Polkinghorne and the Land Rover on Parliament's steps incident.
He says Labour used to stand for equality and democracy and fairness, but they've gone adrift over the years.
"They've given up on the idea of one person, one vote. If you take Willie Jackson, one of their most prominent ministers, who says - oh democracy has changed now, one person, one vote's not that important . Actually, one person, one vote is the whole point of democracy."
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's with your hands on your hip.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yes, well it is about a jump to the left
or a step to the right, but maybe not so
much about the pervict thrust. But anyway, I thought that
would be a bit of fun to just use that
as an introduction to our next guest, because you will
have heard the interview just before with and I gather
David was listening to the interview with Chris Hipkins just
on his responsibility whether we're becoming a bit more polarized.
Of course, David seymoare. He spent the week himself under
(00:53):
a little bit of fire with the letters and support
of Polkinghorn and driving that land driver up three steps
of Parliament. But of course it's not going to make
him any quieter. And David Seymour joins me. Now, good afternoon,
Good afternoon. Your comments about polarization of politics, some might
say it's a bit rich for a party that sits
quite well to the right.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Well, let's just ask what AX stands for. Things that
you can actually find in the Labor Party constitution and
that the Labor Party of old also stood for, primarily
the simple idea that each of us are born equal,
that we have equal political rights, that democracy is the
way to control political power. It should only be wielded
(01:39):
by people subjects to frequent, free and fear democratic collections
with a secret ballot. I mean, this is all from
the Labor Party constitution and that's the kind of stuff
that we actually stand for. The point of my speech
on Friday is that it almost seems like those things
are radical in New Zealand today, when you've got the
(02:01):
likes of Departy Malori who openly say that democracy is
not really that great and they don't support it. I see,
delightfully they've done their usual February fourteenth Valentine's thing of
putting up social media posts celebrating the violent murder of
Captain Cook. And then you come across to the Green
(02:22):
Party and they are advocating not just a capital gains tax,
but a wealth tax, where if you have something of
value then a percentage of it gets clipped every year
as of right. And then you get to the Labor
Party themselves, who know a donkey deep in co government
setting up institutions that were not democratic, that had some
(02:45):
seats reserved at the table based on ancestry due to
a misguided belief that the treaty created a partnership and
we must forever be divided into, as they say, tongue
for Fenowa land people and tongue to Tarditi Treaty people.
So when I say that, you know they've gone a
long way to the left. Yes, I believe the Labor
Party are a long way to the left of their
(03:08):
founding values and their constitution, a long way to the
left of where say Helen Clark and Michael Cullen were,
And of course you look at some of their friends.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Are the friends though the really big problem that's quite
quite possible for Labor to sort of straddle the center
a lot more than you're saying. But it's basically the
problem is we all have coalition partners in nationals and
in your case, you are in there with Winston and
Luxon or should I say New Zealand First and National
I mean, are you worried that Labor are going to
(03:41):
succumb too much to Labor and the Greens more extreme impulses.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, I think that's a factor that my comments mainly
relate to Labor themselves, that they've given up on the
idea of one person, one vote democracy. If you take
Willie Jackson, one of their most prominent ministers, who just says,
old democracy has changed now one person, one vote's not
that important. Actually, one person, one vote is the whole
(04:08):
point of democracy, that we each have an equal say
in public affairs and the rules under which we all
have to live. If I look at their economic policies,
you know, when it comes to tax are increasingly tilting
to the left, and you can never quite work out
what their capital or wealth or capital gains tax policy is.
(04:31):
But you know it's very very different from Hell and
Clarke Michael Cohen prescription.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Well, the obviously we've got a right center right government now,
but the recent polls have shown that there's a possibility
of left one. Maybe there's something that the country finds
appealing about the other lot.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, I'm not so sure about that. You've got the
worst economy in a very very long time, probably in
thirty or forty years. People tend to vote on that. Now.
Of course, I can sit here and point out that
we largely have difficult economic times due to a COVID
response which kept us locked down and locked in our
(05:13):
homes for far too long, all paid for by borrowed money,
which kicked off inflation, which kicked off interest rates. And
our government is cleaning that up. You'll see us saving money,
cutting waste. Gradually, you see the inflation has come down,
and now you see the interest rates starting to fall too,
so people can breathe again. But I can understand that
people would look at it and say, whatever you're in government,
(05:37):
we want you to fix it. I think we'll be
judged in time by the economic conditions that arise from
the policies were put in place. And I think when
it comes to spending, when it comes to red tape
and regulation, getting more value out of less dollars, just
as every household and business has had too, we're doing
that in government. I think we'll be judged on that too.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Looking at you and when sorry act should I say?
In New Zeland first seemed to be grabbing a lot
of the headlines. And one of the crews systems of
Christopher Luxen is that he's people are saying that he's
appearing week. Is that in any way connected with your
praise of national that they're straddling the center? Is that
a weak position to hold now?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
No.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
I think it comes down to the way that the
media choose to cover things. Frankly, it's really interesting. People
come up to me in the street and they say, oh,
you've been busy. They actually the stuff I was busy
with that. They're right, I have been busy this week.
But I've been busy on regulation and charter schools and
FARMAC and medsafe and getting more medicines into the country
(06:43):
and all that kind of thing which has been barely reported,
if at all, And said, you know, the media decided
to run me driving a Landrover for three nights in
a row at six o'clock the only upshot of which,
of course, it was found I hadn't broken any rules
and faced no consequence as a result. But we did
manage to raise nearly forty thousand dollars for revolutionary new
(07:08):
artificial valves for children who have romatic fever. That's just
them's the breaks. But that's how the media roll. And
I think sometimes the perception of who's busy in getting
the work done actually best no resemblance to what's going on,
and sometimes they cover the people who are busy in
getting the work done for totally different reasons.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Do you think there needs to be more of an
effort within Parliament to reach across the aisle and try
and get a bit more consensus, especially on large economic
and taxation questions like that.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Well, I absolutely believe that one thing we need in
New Zealand is much greater public policy stability. And you know,
one of the you would have seen I think you
mentioned earlier the government is inviting Barbara Edmonds to be
at our investment summit, where we're saying to the world
New Zealand is a good place to park your money.
(07:59):
Come here, invest and we can trade value for value
and we can get stronger together. It's a great message.
And having an opposition MPB a prominent one like Barbara Edmonds,
I think is a good example. I have to say
when you see the sort of frankly racist bile that
(08:21):
we're getting, particularly from Two Party Marie, it is kind
of difficult. But you know, if there's things we can
work on with them, even then I guess would we
welcome that if it's for the long term good. I
see they support charter schools, so that's a start. But
also just point out my speech on Friday that the
treaty Principal's Bill is an example of how we get
(08:45):
a debate in Parliament about what our founding document means
and put it to the people. I think that's about
building consensus. Even if it turns out maybe people aren't
ready for that yet. Sooner or later we're going to
have to do it the four year term. That's an
act party initiative, and soon we'll see the government introduce
my old Private Members Bill. I think that that, in
(09:05):
combination with more scrutiny from select committees, will give us
a higher quality debate, slow things down, get better decisions.
And then the Regulatory Standards Bill, which basically requires politicians
to ask and answer basic questions before they make a
rule that affect other people. It gives people a kind
of court of appeal against that. All of those things
(09:27):
fate I believe in THEIRTHI stability.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Just shifting away from domestic things. I put this to
Chris Hopkins as well. Are you concerned with what we're
seeing unfolding with maybe an enforced sort of deal which
might give Putin's way in Ukraine? We're seeing the complications
with Trump's plans for Gaza. How are you feeling about
I mean, you're going to be Deputy Prime Minister soon,
so you'll be slightly I don't know if that means
(09:53):
you'll be slightly more involved in decisions around defense. But
are you Are you concerned about global security right now?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:00):
It's a shame. We've had a period where there was
a consensus on free trade, a rules based order, and
it didn't matter if you were big or small. You
were seen as having some basic rights and dignity. That
seems to be going away with more emphasis on mighty
calls right, and that's never good for a small trade
(10:22):
dependent nation like New Zealand. However, I always say that
the pathway to sanity is to know what you can change,
know what you can't, and most importantly, know the difference,
so you can focus.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
On what can we change, what can we change, what
should we change? When it comes to our own defense spend, well.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I mean actors long campaigned on two percent. We need
to be part of an ANZAC defense force spending two
percent of GDP. That's what the Australian are do. We
should match them and I expect that as we come
closer to budget you might see some more announcements around
that from the government. But that's up up to others.
I'll tell you what I am doing on the twenty
(11:02):
fourth of Monday at Live At twenty fourth of February, sorry,
Monday the twenty fourth, I'll be holding a fundraiser, the
fifth one that I've done to raise money for New
Zealanders who are helping in the Ukraine effort, including some
people out of christ Here at sending Marino wall because
it's pretty cold over there. You can make a difference
with raised one hundred and thirty grand for the war
(11:24):
effort over there, and people should go to the accident
and look at buying a ticket.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
No land rovers.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Look, I'm not aware that land drovers will be involved
in the particular fundraiser at the starting, but Sime, things
can just happen.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Just kidding, Okay, thanks David re appreciate your time. That
is David Symour. He's at party leader and we'll soon
be deputy Prime minister. Look, I just want your take
on this. Do you think that New Zealand politics is
getting more polarized? It with David Simol's points In particular,
he's saying that it's labor that is shifting to the left,
and I think he makes a few interesting points around
the old labor and we do have people who will
(11:59):
call my show when I'm doing talk back and say
that they were traditional labor voters the working class, but
labours shifted away from that. But do you think we
are becoming more polarized? We've seen an example of that
in US politics, I would say over the last at
least decade or so, because it goes beyond the Maga movement,
the Tea Party moment and all that. Are we becoming
more polarized and you're concerned about it? At the extremes,
(12:20):
of course, I could point you towards the Auckland Rainbow
Parade where Destiny Church members disrupted the march and stood
in front of them trying to shout them down, demonstrated
themselves to be a bunch of ignorant, misinformed religious bigots.
But that's the stuff I'm worried about in terms of
the rest of our parliament. You know, yeah, I am
concerned about a couple of things that David talks about.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
sed B.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's with your hands on your hip.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yes, well it is about a jump to the left
or a step to the right, but maybe not so
much about the pervict thrust. But anyway, I thought that
would be a bit of fun to just use that
as an introduction to our next guest, because you will
have heard the interview just before with and I gather
David was listening to the interview with Chris Hipkins just
on his responsibility whether we're becoming a bit more polarized.
Of course, David seymoare. He spent the week himself under
(00:53):
a little bit of fire with the letters and support
of Polkinghorn and driving that land driver up three steps
of Parliament. But of course it's not going to make
him any quieter. And David Seymour joins me. Now, good afternoon,
Good afternoon. Your comments about polarization of politics, some might
say it's a bit rich for a party that sits
quite well to the right.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Well, let's just ask what AX stands for. Things that
you can actually find in the Labor Party constitution and
that the Labor Party of old also stood for, primarily
the simple idea that each of us are born equal,
that we have equal political rights, that democracy is the
way to control political power. It should only be wielded
(01:39):
by people subjects to frequent, free and fear democratic collections
with a secret ballot. I mean, this is all from
the Labor Party constitution and that's the kind of stuff
that we actually stand for. The point of my speech
on Friday is that it almost seems like those things
are radical in New Zealand today, when you've got the
(02:01):
likes of Departy Malori who openly say that democracy is
not really that great and they don't support it. I see,
delightfully they've done their usual February fourteenth Valentine's thing of
putting up social media posts celebrating the violent murder of
Captain Cook. And then you come across to the Green
(02:22):
Party and they are advocating not just a capital gains tax,
but a wealth tax, where if you have something of
value then a percentage of it gets clipped every year
as of right. And then you get to the Labor
Party themselves, who know a donkey deep in co government
setting up institutions that were not democratic, that had some
(02:45):
seats reserved at the table based on ancestry due to
a misguided belief that the treaty created a partnership and
we must forever be divided into, as they say, tongue
for Fenowa land people and tongue to Tarditi Treaty people.
So when I say that, you know they've gone a
long way to the left. Yes, I believe the Labor
Party are a long way to the left of their
(03:08):
founding values and their constitution, a long way to the
left of where say Helen Clark and Michael Cullen were,
And of course you look at some of their friends.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Are the friends though the really big problem that's quite
quite possible for Labor to sort of straddle the center
a lot more than you're saying. But it's basically the
problem is we all have coalition partners in nationals and
in your case, you are in there with Winston and
Luxon or should I say New Zealand First and National
I mean, are you worried that Labor are going to
(03:41):
succumb too much to Labor and the Greens more extreme impulses.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, I think that's a factor that my comments mainly
relate to Labor themselves, that they've given up on the
idea of one person, one vote democracy. If you take
Willie Jackson, one of their most prominent ministers, who just says,
old democracy has changed now one person, one vote's not
that important. Actually, one person, one vote is the whole
(04:08):
point of democracy, that we each have an equal say
in public affairs and the rules under which we all
have to live. If I look at their economic policies,
you know, when it comes to tax are increasingly tilting
to the left, and you can never quite work out
what their capital or wealth or capital gains tax policy is.
(04:31):
But you know it's very very different from Hell and
Clarke Michael Cohen prescription.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Well, the obviously we've got a right center right government now,
but the recent polls have shown that there's a possibility
of left one. Maybe there's something that the country finds
appealing about the other lot.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, I'm not so sure about that. You've got the
worst economy in a very very long time, probably in
thirty or forty years. People tend to vote on that. Now.
Of course, I can sit here and point out that
we largely have difficult economic times due to a COVID
response which kept us locked down and locked in our
(05:13):
homes for far too long, all paid for by borrowed money,
which kicked off inflation, which kicked off interest rates. And
our government is cleaning that up. You'll see us saving money,
cutting waste. Gradually, you see the inflation has come down,
and now you see the interest rates starting to fall too,
so people can breathe again. But I can understand that
people would look at it and say, whatever you're in government,
(05:37):
we want you to fix it. I think we'll be
judged in time by the economic conditions that arise from
the policies were put in place. And I think when
it comes to spending, when it comes to red tape
and regulation, getting more value out of less dollars, just
as every household and business has had too, we're doing
that in government. I think we'll be judged on that too.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Looking at you and when sorry act should I say?
In New Zeland first seemed to be grabbing a lot
of the headlines. And one of the crews systems of
Christopher Luxen is that he's people are saying that he's
appearing week. Is that in any way connected with your
praise of national that they're straddling the center? Is that
a weak position to hold now?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
No.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
I think it comes down to the way that the
media choose to cover things. Frankly, it's really interesting. People
come up to me in the street and they say, oh,
you've been busy. They actually the stuff I was busy
with that. They're right, I have been busy this week.
But I've been busy on regulation and charter schools and
FARMAC and medsafe and getting more medicines into the country
(06:43):
and all that kind of thing which has been barely reported,
if at all, And said, you know, the media decided
to run me driving a Landrover for three nights in
a row at six o'clock the only upshot of which,
of course, it was found I hadn't broken any rules
and faced no consequence as a result. But we did
manage to raise nearly forty thousand dollars for revolutionary new
(07:08):
artificial valves for children who have romatic fever. That's just
them's the breaks. But that's how the media roll. And
I think sometimes the perception of who's busy in getting
the work done actually best no resemblance to what's going on,
and sometimes they cover the people who are busy in
getting the work done for totally different reasons.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Do you think there needs to be more of an
effort within Parliament to reach across the aisle and try
and get a bit more consensus, especially on large economic
and taxation questions like that.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Well, I absolutely believe that one thing we need in
New Zealand is much greater public policy stability. And you know,
one of the you would have seen I think you
mentioned earlier the government is inviting Barbara Edmonds to be
at our investment summit, where we're saying to the world
New Zealand is a good place to park your money.
(07:59):
Come here, invest and we can trade value for value
and we can get stronger together. It's a great message.
And having an opposition MPB a prominent one like Barbara Edmonds,
I think is a good example. I have to say
when you see the sort of frankly racist bile that
(08:21):
we're getting, particularly from Two Party Marie, it is kind
of difficult. But you know, if there's things we can
work on with them, even then I guess would we
welcome that if it's for the long term good. I
see they support charter schools, so that's a start. But
also just point out my speech on Friday that the
treaty Principal's Bill is an example of how we get
(08:45):
a debate in Parliament about what our founding document means
and put it to the people. I think that's about
building consensus. Even if it turns out maybe people aren't
ready for that yet. Sooner or later we're going to
have to do it the four year term. That's an
act party initiative, and soon we'll see the government introduce
my old Private Members Bill. I think that that, in
(09:05):
combination with more scrutiny from select committees, will give us
a higher quality debate, slow things down, get better decisions.
And then the Regulatory Standards Bill, which basically requires politicians
to ask and answer basic questions before they make a
rule that affect other people. It gives people a kind
of court of appeal against that. All of those things
(09:27):
fate I believe in THEIRTHI stability.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Just shifting away from domestic things. I put this to
Chris Hopkins as well. Are you concerned with what we're
seeing unfolding with maybe an enforced sort of deal which
might give Putin's way in Ukraine? We're seeing the complications
with Trump's plans for Gaza. How are you feeling about
I mean, you're going to be Deputy Prime Minister soon,
so you'll be slightly I don't know if that means
(09:53):
you'll be slightly more involved in decisions around defense. But
are you Are you concerned about global security right now?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:00):
It's a shame. We've had a period where there was
a consensus on free trade, a rules based order, and
it didn't matter if you were big or small. You
were seen as having some basic rights and dignity. That
seems to be going away with more emphasis on mighty
calls right, and that's never good for a small trade
(10:22):
dependent nation like New Zealand. However, I always say that
the pathway to sanity is to know what you can change,
know what you can't, and most importantly, know the difference,
so you can focus.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
On what can we change, what can we change, what
should we change? When it comes to our own defense spend, well.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I mean actors long campaigned on two percent. We need
to be part of an ANZAC defense force spending two
percent of GDP. That's what the Australian are do. We
should match them and I expect that as we come
closer to budget you might see some more announcements around
that from the government. But that's up up to others.
I'll tell you what I am doing on the twenty
(11:02):
fourth of Monday at Live At twenty fourth of February, sorry,
Monday the twenty fourth, I'll be holding a fundraiser, the
fifth one that I've done to raise money for New
Zealanders who are helping in the Ukraine effort, including some
people out of christ Here at sending Marino wall because
it's pretty cold over there. You can make a difference
with raised one hundred and thirty grand for the war
(11:24):
effort over there, and people should go to the accident
and look at buying a ticket.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
No land rovers.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Look, I'm not aware that land drovers will be involved
in the particular fundraiser at the starting, but Sime, things
can just happen.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Just kidding, Okay, thanks David re appreciate your time. That
is David Symour. He's at party leader and we'll soon
be deputy Prime minister. Look, I just want your take
on this. Do you think that New Zealand politics is
getting more polarized? It with David Simol's points In particular,
he's saying that it's labor that is shifting to the left,
and I think he makes a few interesting points around
the old labor and we do have people who will
(11:59):
call my show when I'm doing talk back and say
that they were traditional labor voters the working class, but
labours shifted away from that. But do you think we
are becoming more polarized? We've seen an example of that
in US politics, I would say over the last at
least decade or so, because it goes beyond the Maga movement,
the Tea Party moment and all that. Are we becoming
more polarized and you're concerned about it? At the extremes,
(12:20):
of course, I could point you towards the Auckland Rainbow
Parade where Destiny Church members disrupted the march and stood
in front of them trying to shout them down, demonstrated
themselves to be a bunch of ignorant, misinformed religious bigots.
But that's the stuff I'm worried about in terms of
the rest of our parliament. You know, yeah, I am
concerned about a couple of things that David talks about.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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