May 3, 2025 • 13 mins
The Government has announce $2 billion from the upcoming Budget has been set aside for new Defence Force helicopters, alongside an additional $957 million in funding.
The current Seasprite helicopters were built in the 1960s and 1970s, and were overdue replacement.
The announcement is part of a bigger plan to improve Defence capabilities.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks, I'd.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Be The government has announced a two billion dollars from
the upcoming budget has been set aside for new defense helicopters.
There's also close to a billion, nine hundred and fifty
seven million dollar investment in defense force activities, personnel and
a state And the current sea sprite helicopters were built
in the sixties and seventies were overdue for replacement and
(00:31):
so we're going to get a few more of them.
And the announcement is part of a bigger plan to
improve defense capabilities during a time of course of worldwide
tensions and the Naty.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
New Zealand is facing its most challenging and dangerous strategic
environment for decades, and we are no longer living in
a benign strategic environment. The risk of conflict in our
wider region has risen and we have to do our
part internationally and domestically.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, sorry, spoke over the little bit there anyway, Defense Force, Sorry,
Defense Minister Judith Collins is with me now, good afternoon.
Ask what is the principal aim of this purchase for
these helicopters. Is it combat and defense or is it humanitarian.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Well, it's all of those things. So that's the great
thing with defense is that they take a multitask. So
the factors, we do need to have maritime helicopters. We
are a maritime nation. We're the ninth largest search and
economic zone the world, but we also have the fourth
largest search and rescue area. So a lot of the
(01:37):
sort of work that defense does out in the Pacific
in particular, and the Presimency is saving people, dealing with
and tracking drug smugglers, people smugglers, all that sort of
work they can get involved in, but also illegal fishing.
(01:57):
So these are some of the tasks that they are
engaged in. And as I've said before, we can do
a lot with drones, but a drone can't really boarder
ship and a drone can't really pick up someone out
of a boat in the middle of the Tasmancy, So
(02:18):
you know, we do need to have them.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Just for clarity, because I got a bit worried just
when I think I misread the press release initially. So
the two billion dollars allocated for the helicopter replacement is
part of the twelve billion that has been talked about,
and it's an additional defense sports spend as opposed to
that nine hundred and fifty seven million that's on top
of it all, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
That's on top of that as well. So that is
that's money basically for operations and also for critical estate maintenance,
for better accommodation for our people and better conditions for them.
So there's it's also personal allowances for things like deployments
(03:01):
and deployments so when we send them places to do things,
and it's cost of money.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Of course, what's the helicopters is it? Are they filling
a gap as well or is this simply a case
of updating.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Well, as you rightly said at the start, these basically helicopters.
The frames date back to the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies,
and they don't. I mean, honestly, I think the new
Zealm Defense Forsress be the one of the best in
the world of keeping stuff going for years, but I
(03:37):
mean they do. I think there comes to be in
terms of time where there's a limit. So obviously technology
has moved on, They've been updated over the years, but frankly,
the frames are enormously old and they're in the sea conditions,
so you can imagine the state that they could be in.
But yeah, they're basically the same. So we've got five
(03:58):
operational ones at the moment. They'll be replaced by five
new ones and they'll be a much more modern than
be Obviously.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Obviously brand new is lovely, but what are the actual
capabilities and range that that our armed forces will be
excited about with these new ones.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Well, they haven't. We haven't chosen the new ones yet.
We said to have got two billion dollars to get them,
so we're still going to go through the whole business
case and then the choosing a procurement process. So we
think there's probably about three different helicopters that are up
forward terms of the sorts of helicopters, so providers of
(04:39):
helicopters who will be bidding on it.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Okay, you've also mentioned that global tensions are increasing rapidly.
How much are these tensions influencing these decisions about getting
the new helicopters or is it simply goodness me? You know,
they're sixty years old, we need to get something new.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
I don't know about you, but if my son was
in the Air Force or the Navy and was having
to fly helicopters that were sixty years old, I'll be
a bit worried. Yeah, I think we're just going to
be reasonable here. I mean, it got us that they're
doing an enormously good job, but they were secondhand when
(05:21):
they were bought in twenty thirteen. You know, we just
need to stop buying secondhand equipment and wondering why it
doesn't last for another fifty years.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Is that sort of part of it? Like we obviously
publicly everyone thinks we need to spend more money on
our defense assets, but as a significant part of this
simply providing equipment that means that we can also start
and continue to recruit the best personnel as well, because
they have confidence in what they're going to be, what
they're going to be flying, what sort of weapons they're
(05:52):
going to be utilizing, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Oh yes, our people have to have something to fly
that is not inherently dangerous for them to get into.
So we do need to actually date. And then it's
also been being aware that technology has changed over the
years and what these helicopters and people expected to do,
and the links of our search and rescue area is
(06:19):
so large, being the fourth largest of the entire world.
I mean, we've got to be able to get places.
So look, I just think it's like you can't. None
of us should be expecting our classic cars of sixty
years old to be performing at the same level as
a brand new one today. But we do need to
be able to update, and we are updating.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Is this in any of this in response to international
pressures as well?
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Well? I think we're certainly fully aware of the international pressure.
So we're not doing it because of anyone's asked us to.
I started on this project with Defense earlier last year,
but because it was pretty clear that when I read
the brief enter incoming ministers you get as a new
minister in the area, I thought, you know, basically about
a difficult situation. So we've been working on it for
(07:10):
a long time. But I have to say, the activities
in the Pacific, some of the tensions going on, what's
happened to Ukraine, right, all these things are things that
do play on people's minds. You need to make sure
that we're doing something and we're not just sitting back
and hoping we can, you know, go ahead and find something.
We need it because these helicopters and any of that.
(07:33):
It's plus for training. It takes years to get them,
years to get them in place, years to get the
training in them. And you can't just wander down to
the dairy and buy something off the shelf and so
here we go. You want don't have a play on that.
You know it's a long term game.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I guess that was one of my next questions.
It's one thing to buy them, it's another thing to
have them ready to go with crews well trained enough
personnel to utilize these assets. So what's the time frame
for one the purchase and two really be able to
roll them out in a meaningful way.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Well, I think the purchase normally takes a couple of
years because unless they just happened to have some available.
That's the other thing, because there's apparently these slots that
when there are orders for these sorts of equipment that
you have to go into. But occasionally those can change
depending on where you are, so sometimes a decision to
(08:29):
be made that New Zealand can get to skip being
in the queue those sorts of things, and so it'll
be a couple of years I think before we get that.
But the point is that our people will be training
once decisions are made. They'll be training on simulators, they'll
be training, they'll be involved in the whole purchase of them,
and so they will be pretty much trained when they
(08:50):
come on board.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Is this going to be the biggest procurement of military
assets for the time being or is there something exciting
you've got your site set on.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
The It's quite a few things that we need to do.
Is one of the more exciting ones for many people
because everyone can understand the helicopter let's go, and nobody
thinks that the helicopters shouldn't be really safe.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
No, what else do you think is you know what
else is in your shopping list that you really think
we need to be spending money on.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Well, obviously we've got a lot to do around the
digital size, certain insecurity. We have issues around our defense spaces,
particularly around the accommodation, which we're funding through the other
money that you referred to. But if you look at
our defense capability, then it's all about making sure that
we have the right people in the right place that
(09:46):
we can do it. So one of the things that
we are very much focused on, as well as newer
technologies like drones both for sea or actually for sea
land and the air. So that's some of the work
that we're our defense people looking at the moment, and
particularly where there's any New Zealand made and top notch
(10:11):
tech on this, because we've got some great people in
New Zealand who can produce the producing some of them
for overseas defense forces, and the question is can we
make use of that talent as well.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I've got a bunch of texts that come in, so
I'm going to throw this one to you. Are we
ever going to get fighter jets again? Or is that
have times moved on?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
You know, I think that the moment that I don't
think we can do that. And the reason is because
when the fighter wing was stood down and canceled, that
was we lost the entire capability to run that. So
they all pretty much went off to Australia. And so
what's happened is we just it would just take us
(10:53):
years to rebuild that. But right at the moment we're
doing drones.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
That didn't sound like an absolute no. That sounded like,
well that would be a big ask. But I'm just
reading between the lines of what Judith would.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Like I just I just think that that that's just
not going to happen in any foreseeable future. And it's
because we didn't just lose the planes, we lost the
people and we lost that capability, so we'd have to
start from scratch basically. But having said that, we are
(11:27):
you know, we are putting missiles on the p eights,
the sidons, We have got missiles coming on the helicopters,
you know, So we are we are doing something, and
we are moving to drones. There's only certain things we
can do as a schall nation, and we're trying to
make sure we don't get silly about it. We don't
feel the need to. But there's a still a lot
(11:49):
of people in that Air Force who threw the day
that decision was ever made and we lost our capacity.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I'm assuming you would be one of them too, Yeah, of.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Course also realistic, I do know would take a long
time to get that back.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Just lastly, how much of a done deal is this?
Because in your release, I think it says a business
case for these helicopters will be considered by Cabinet this year.
So what has to happen from here on? And with
regards to cabinet simply do they have to confirm the
money story. It sounds like the money has been put aside,
(12:28):
but what happens at cabinet later this year?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah, well so the business case is always required for
big purchases. And I mean, it's fair enough to take
fair money and you don't want to be me having
such a free head that I go off. And but
what it does is that the Defense works through along
(12:51):
the treasure and everyone else about how what this is
going to mean, what is going to cost, and then
it goes through to cabinet. This is normal process for
almost anything. There's a big dickt item in what happens
in the procurement stats, but there's already things going on
behind the scenes. And the announcement today with the Prime
(13:12):
Minister Deept Prime Minister myself, it's it's pretty much it's
done deal. This is what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Good stuff. Hey, Judith, I really appreciate your time this appening.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Thanks so much, Thank you, Thank you very much. Tim.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Thanks cheerios. That's Judith Collins, Minister of Defense.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news talks.
It'd be weekends from three pm or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks, I'd.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Be The government has announced a two billion dollars from
the upcoming budget has been set aside for new defense helicopters.
There's also close to a billion, nine hundred and fifty
seven million dollar investment in defense force activities, personnel and
a state And the current sea sprite helicopters were built
in the sixties and seventies were overdue for replacement and
(00:31):
so we're going to get a few more of them.
And the announcement is part of a bigger plan to
improve defense capabilities during a time of course of worldwide
tensions and the Naty.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
New Zealand is facing its most challenging and dangerous strategic
environment for decades, and we are no longer living in
a benign strategic environment. The risk of conflict in our
wider region has risen and we have to do our
part internationally and domestically.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, sorry, spoke over the little bit there anyway, Defense Force, Sorry,
Defense Minister Judith Collins is with me now, good afternoon.
Ask what is the principal aim of this purchase for
these helicopters. Is it combat and defense or is it humanitarian.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Well, it's all of those things. So that's the great
thing with defense is that they take a multitask. So
the factors, we do need to have maritime helicopters. We
are a maritime nation. We're the ninth largest search and
economic zone the world, but we also have the fourth
largest search and rescue area. So a lot of the
(01:37):
sort of work that defense does out in the Pacific
in particular, and the Presimency is saving people, dealing with
and tracking drug smugglers, people smugglers, all that sort of
work they can get involved in, but also illegal fishing.
(01:57):
So these are some of the tasks that they are
engaged in. And as I've said before, we can do
a lot with drones, but a drone can't really boarder
ship and a drone can't really pick up someone out
of a boat in the middle of the Tasmancy, So
(02:18):
you know, we do need to have them.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Just for clarity, because I got a bit worried just
when I think I misread the press release initially. So
the two billion dollars allocated for the helicopter replacement is
part of the twelve billion that has been talked about,
and it's an additional defense sports spend as opposed to
that nine hundred and fifty seven million that's on top
of it all, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
That's on top of that as well. So that is
that's money basically for operations and also for critical estate maintenance,
for better accommodation for our people and better conditions for them.
So there's it's also personal allowances for things like deployments
(03:01):
and deployments so when we send them places to do things,
and it's cost of money.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Of course, what's the helicopters is it? Are they filling
a gap as well or is this simply a case
of updating.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Well, as you rightly said at the start, these basically helicopters.
The frames date back to the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies,
and they don't. I mean, honestly, I think the new
Zealm Defense Forsress be the one of the best in
the world of keeping stuff going for years, but I
(03:37):
mean they do. I think there comes to be in
terms of time where there's a limit. So obviously technology
has moved on, They've been updated over the years, but frankly,
the frames are enormously old and they're in the sea conditions,
so you can imagine the state that they could be in.
But yeah, they're basically the same. So we've got five
(03:58):
operational ones at the moment. They'll be replaced by five
new ones and they'll be a much more modern than
be Obviously.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Obviously brand new is lovely, but what are the actual
capabilities and range that that our armed forces will be
excited about with these new ones.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Well, they haven't. We haven't chosen the new ones yet.
We said to have got two billion dollars to get them,
so we're still going to go through the whole business
case and then the choosing a procurement process. So we
think there's probably about three different helicopters that are up
forward terms of the sorts of helicopters, so providers of
(04:39):
helicopters who will be bidding on it.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Okay, you've also mentioned that global tensions are increasing rapidly.
How much are these tensions influencing these decisions about getting
the new helicopters or is it simply goodness me? You know,
they're sixty years old, we need to get something new.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
I don't know about you, but if my son was
in the Air Force or the Navy and was having
to fly helicopters that were sixty years old, I'll be
a bit worried. Yeah, I think we're just going to
be reasonable here. I mean, it got us that they're
doing an enormously good job, but they were secondhand when
(05:21):
they were bought in twenty thirteen. You know, we just
need to stop buying secondhand equipment and wondering why it
doesn't last for another fifty years.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Is that sort of part of it? Like we obviously
publicly everyone thinks we need to spend more money on
our defense assets, but as a significant part of this
simply providing equipment that means that we can also start
and continue to recruit the best personnel as well, because
they have confidence in what they're going to be, what
they're going to be flying, what sort of weapons they're
(05:52):
going to be utilizing, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Oh yes, our people have to have something to fly
that is not inherently dangerous for them to get into.
So we do need to actually date. And then it's
also been being aware that technology has changed over the
years and what these helicopters and people expected to do,
and the links of our search and rescue area is
(06:19):
so large, being the fourth largest of the entire world.
I mean, we've got to be able to get places.
So look, I just think it's like you can't. None
of us should be expecting our classic cars of sixty
years old to be performing at the same level as
a brand new one today. But we do need to
be able to update, and we are updating.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Is this in any of this in response to international
pressures as well?
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Well? I think we're certainly fully aware of the international pressure.
So we're not doing it because of anyone's asked us to.
I started on this project with Defense earlier last year,
but because it was pretty clear that when I read
the brief enter incoming ministers you get as a new
minister in the area, I thought, you know, basically about
a difficult situation. So we've been working on it for
(07:10):
a long time. But I have to say, the activities
in the Pacific, some of the tensions going on, what's
happened to Ukraine, right, all these things are things that
do play on people's minds. You need to make sure
that we're doing something and we're not just sitting back
and hoping we can, you know, go ahead and find something.
We need it because these helicopters and any of that.
(07:33):
It's plus for training. It takes years to get them,
years to get them in place, years to get the
training in them. And you can't just wander down to
the dairy and buy something off the shelf and so
here we go. You want don't have a play on that.
You know it's a long term game.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I guess that was one of my next questions.
It's one thing to buy them, it's another thing to
have them ready to go with crews well trained enough
personnel to utilize these assets. So what's the time frame
for one the purchase and two really be able to
roll them out in a meaningful way.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Well, I think the purchase normally takes a couple of
years because unless they just happened to have some available.
That's the other thing, because there's apparently these slots that
when there are orders for these sorts of equipment that
you have to go into. But occasionally those can change
depending on where you are, so sometimes a decision to
(08:29):
be made that New Zealand can get to skip being
in the queue those sorts of things, and so it'll
be a couple of years I think before we get that.
But the point is that our people will be training
once decisions are made. They'll be training on simulators, they'll
be training, they'll be involved in the whole purchase of them,
and so they will be pretty much trained when they
(08:50):
come on board.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Is this going to be the biggest procurement of military
assets for the time being or is there something exciting
you've got your site set on.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
The It's quite a few things that we need to do.
Is one of the more exciting ones for many people
because everyone can understand the helicopter let's go, and nobody
thinks that the helicopters shouldn't be really safe.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
No, what else do you think is you know what
else is in your shopping list that you really think
we need to be spending money on.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Well, obviously we've got a lot to do around the
digital size, certain insecurity. We have issues around our defense spaces,
particularly around the accommodation, which we're funding through the other
money that you referred to. But if you look at
our defense capability, then it's all about making sure that
we have the right people in the right place that
(09:46):
we can do it. So one of the things that
we are very much focused on, as well as newer
technologies like drones both for sea or actually for sea
land and the air. So that's some of the work
that we're our defense people looking at the moment, and
particularly where there's any New Zealand made and top notch
(10:11):
tech on this, because we've got some great people in
New Zealand who can produce the producing some of them
for overseas defense forces, and the question is can we
make use of that talent as well.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I've got a bunch of texts that come in, so
I'm going to throw this one to you. Are we
ever going to get fighter jets again? Or is that
have times moved on?
Speaker 4 (10:31):
You know, I think that the moment that I don't
think we can do that. And the reason is because
when the fighter wing was stood down and canceled, that
was we lost the entire capability to run that. So
they all pretty much went off to Australia. And so
what's happened is we just it would just take us
(10:53):
years to rebuild that. But right at the moment we're
doing drones.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
That didn't sound like an absolute no. That sounded like,
well that would be a big ask. But I'm just
reading between the lines of what Judith would.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Like I just I just think that that that's just
not going to happen in any foreseeable future. And it's
because we didn't just lose the planes, we lost the
people and we lost that capability, so we'd have to
start from scratch basically. But having said that, we are
(11:27):
you know, we are putting missiles on the p eights,
the sidons, We have got missiles coming on the helicopters,
you know, So we are we are doing something, and
we are moving to drones. There's only certain things we
can do as a schall nation, and we're trying to
make sure we don't get silly about it. We don't
feel the need to. But there's a still a lot
(11:49):
of people in that Air Force who threw the day
that decision was ever made and we lost our capacity.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I'm assuming you would be one of them too, Yeah, of.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Course also realistic, I do know would take a long
time to get that back.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Just lastly, how much of a done deal is this?
Because in your release, I think it says a business
case for these helicopters will be considered by Cabinet this year.
So what has to happen from here on? And with
regards to cabinet simply do they have to confirm the
money story. It sounds like the money has been put aside,
(12:28):
but what happens at cabinet later this year?
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah, well so the business case is always required for
big purchases. And I mean, it's fair enough to take
fair money and you don't want to be me having
such a free head that I go off. And but
what it does is that the Defense works through along
(12:51):
the treasure and everyone else about how what this is
going to mean, what is going to cost, and then
it goes through to cabinet. This is normal process for
almost anything. There's a big dickt item in what happens
in the procurement stats, but there's already things going on
behind the scenes. And the announcement today with the Prime
(13:12):
Minister Deept Prime Minister myself, it's it's pretty much it's
done deal. This is what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Good stuff. Hey, Judith, I really appreciate your time this appening.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Thanks so much, Thank you, Thank you very much. Tim.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Thanks cheerios. That's Judith Collins, Minister of Defense.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news talks.
It'd be weekends from three pm or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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