November 8, 2025 • 14 mins
The Government has released an action plan to deal with the growing issue of methamphetamine use in New Zealand.
They're investing $30 million over four years into the hardest hit communities, increasing maritime operations to stop it before it gets into the country, and we'll soon see a nationwide media campaign to raise awareness - among other policies.
The amount of meth seized both in the country and offshore has increased 266% over the past five years, and the estimated social harm from meth use was $1.5 billion last year.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks dB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So the government has released an action plan to tackle
methanphetamine harm. Meth Use has doubled in the past year,
fueling organized crime, putting huge pressure on family, police health services.
So today the government has announced it'll be investing thirty
million dollars over four years into the hardest hit communities
with a package that spans a tougher enforcement, new maritime operations,
(00:32):
treatment funding and a national media campaign. The amount of
myths seized both here and offshore has increased two hundred
and sixty six percent over the past five years, and
the estimated social harm from meth use last year was
at one and a half billion, and Justice Minister Paul
Goldsmith joins me. Now, good afternoon, My good afternoon. That
(00:53):
wastewater testing the numbers there are seven hundred and thirty
two kilos in twenty twenty three, three to fourteen hundred
and thirty four. How on earth is it escalating so quickly?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, yeah, there's a number of things going on. Has
been a big increase in supply globally and that's put
the price down and there's a bit of a debate
to be had with it appears that it's a similar
number of people taking twice as much myth, and that's
(01:25):
what's going through to the system. But of course it
could also be some new users as well, and that's
what's concerning us.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Where is it coming from? Do you think all over?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
We were out at the customs place this afternoon, and
you know, some of the legitimate supply routes, there's and
you know, sort of working its way into all sorts
of things coming through legitimate channels, but there's also an
increased flow from South America and in Southeast Asia as well.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
We're basically importing it one way or another.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yes, And so you look, the point of the action
plan is recognizing this goode that myth has in our communities,
and there's sort of three core elements to it. Stopping
it at the border, so dialing up our response there. Secondly,
dealing with the distribution within New Zealand, which is, you know,
dealing with organized crime and the gangs. And then thirdly,
(02:23):
of course you can do those two things as much
as you like, but if there's still a huge demand
for it, then that's a problem. So we're looking at
the demand side as well, and so that's where the
hard hitting media campaign. The good news on matter is
it's funded by the criminals themselves because it's coming out
of the Proceeds of Crime fund, combined with some better
(02:45):
some extra resources into the rehabilitation. So it's you know,
it's all designed now recognizing we've been fighting this for
twenty odd years. There's a lot of stuff that we
do that works, but we need to do more of it.
And then there's the new element, which is the media
campaign to really to tur people, stop people from getting
(03:05):
themselves onto the spandwagon.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
We talk about targeting supply, do we have the resources
to intercept those specific smuggling routes.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, well, we have resources that we put into it,
and of course, well there's still still stuff getting through.
And so it's a combination of intelligence and we share
a lot of intelligence with many other like minded countries,
and then we engage customers, the defense and you know,
(03:35):
all the security forces in order to get the best
chance we have. And you know, there's still more to do.
That's why you know, some elements are we're going to
be starting, you know, discussions about better screening at the ports.
In terms of port workers, more support workers, because you know,
we've seen too many cases of that in the past,
and so what when when you look at this plan,
(03:55):
it's not The point is there's no single silver billet.
There's not one thing you've got to do. There's about
twenty things that we're currently doing and we've got to
do it in a bit better, or put some extra resources,
or will give extra judicial tools. You know, if we're
dealing with police search and surveillancings, they need to be
updated for new technology and we're doing everything we can
to give ourselves the best shot to fight back.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
What's different about this plan compared to what other governments
might have tried previously.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well, well, the big I suppose the big difference is
the nationwide media campaign which it's funded. It's about six
million dollars, with just under six million dollars funded from
the proceed crime. You know, we haven't actually gone out
with a clear, simple message. You know, this is not
about using meth moderately or trying to do it in
(04:44):
a safe fashion. It's just a fair simple message don't
try it because it's a sort of drug that some
people just one go is enough to hook them and
lead to a downward spiral of chaos and disasters, so
don't try it. Send a very clear message there and
then across the other areas. It's all a matter of
(05:06):
building on all the things that we do at the moment,
but giving it a dialing it up and so at
the border in the distribution and also in the rehabilitation front.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
What is the So what will the media campaign look like?
I mean we can all we all remember, of course,
on products you can buy, like smoking, some pretty gruesome
ads and things, but of course there's not legal packaging
for the stuff. So how how can you give us
a glimpse of what a media campaign would look like?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, well that's going to be the challenge for the
Ministry of Health. Who we're going to be organized organizing
that and will be you know, I encourage the smartest
advertising minds and social media gurus and so forth to
come up with proposals because they'll be they'll be putting
the piecing that together over the next few months. And
you know, I've got to use all the channels to
(05:52):
get that message across. There's many things that have been
you know, we've sent messages, whether it's drink driving, smoking,
a whole bunch of a bunch of things, but we've
never really sent that clear message through through such a
camp pain. So that's what we're going to try and do.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Now there's thirty million dollars on treatment. How much of
how's that going to work? And how much of an
effect do you think that's going to have?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Well, you know, I mean there are a lot of
programs currently working at different levels to get people off
and there's a you know, often you hear that the
ability that people are ready to come off, but there
isn't the places available. So the extra thirty million dollars
(06:36):
allocated will provide more opportunities for more people to get
the rehabilitation. And you know, it's not an easy area,
you know, some of them. Ultimately the person has to
be ready to you know, sometimes have reached rock bottom
and be ready to start that process. But that's an
(06:57):
important part of it. The other element is, you know,
is a program called the Resistance to Organized Clime and Communities,
which is organized by the police and has worked quite
well in towns around the country where it's you know,
it's a combination of all the social agencies and the
police and everybody focused on you know, you come in,
you clean out the the gangs in the neighborhood, get
(07:20):
it sorted, and then don't just leave it there. Have
all the supports available to help a community get over
the over the top of us, and we you know,
we've heard some calls from people up in north and
before this this sort of thing, and so we've put
some extra money into that to keep that going longer.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Hey, so you mentioned that the amount of myth that's
being used, as we've talked about it doubling, but you
mentioned that it's pretty much the same addicts just using
more myth. So as the treatment.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Really that that's that's a theory. We don't we exact
we don't have the exact you know, sort of one
hundred percent proof on that, but we know that there's
a lot more coming through the waste water that the
you know, the advice we've had is it looks as
though it's a silli similar number of people having more,
but that's it's not one hundred percent clear. Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Are the police happy with the resources they've got to
tackle this with search and interception powers and other resources
they need.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Well, well, we continue to upgrade those and you know
this is the basic stuff that you need to keep
on doing, and we're doing that across the board so
as to give them to make sure that the search
and survalance powers are up to date for the latest
you know, sort of cloud gathering information and you know,
so it's an upgrade of all those things. Same thing
(08:44):
happening with money laundering. You know, we're doing a lot
of work in that area to make sure that our
empty money laundering laws are working effectively. And in part
of this package is standing up another team of police
to go after the to have more more prosecutions. Basically,
you know you've got and where it hurts, which is
the money.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
You want to seize assets. You want to seize assets faster.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You've said, the more that we can see, the more
we can use for programs like this as well. And
you know it's actually been a hugely, hugely successful thing
over the last ten to fifteen years that Proceede of
Crime Fund.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Because you said you want to yeah, you want to
said you want to see some faster. What's the benchmark
for being faster. If you've got an idea on how
quickly you want the begangs to feel that impact.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, well they are feeling it now and we want
to keep We want them to feel it more in
the future. And know that there are more people out
there in every element at the border, you know, the
money laundering side, and the search and the allen side,
all throughout the community as well, all sort of aiming
at making their life more difficult, and you know that's
(09:50):
what we're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You look at the Scaler's problem and it's pretty depressing
seeing those figures, isn't it. Do you feel that we're
fighting a bit of a losing battle in this stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Well, it's always it's been difficult, and it continues to
be difficult, but we can't give up that. You know,
there's a reason why these drugs are illegal is because
they cause such mayhem for many people in their blight communities.
And so you know, we're not giving up the fight.
But what we need to do is keep on raising
(10:25):
the bar of our response, and so that's what we're
doing here.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
What do you want people to take from this? I
see the explainer sheet that we're sent through. It involves
a lot of ministers, So Mitchell Costello, McKee, Goldsmith of you,
of course Collins, is that one of the things you
want to get past, to get through to the public
is that we're all working hard on this. What do
you want the public to take away from the.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Well, yeah, you know, we take it seriously. It's it's
it's not a problem that you can solve by you know,
one minister doing one thing. And you know there's no
silver bullet, as the obvious thing to say, but you know,
literally there's you've got to tackle it from the border,
from the organized crime and from the demand side, and
(11:10):
there's a whole host of things in each of those areas.
And the way that we approach these problems, complex problems
is just you know, to identify all the all the
different elements and make sure we're making progress on all
of them. And you know, there's not massive changes in
all of them, but the but they're you know, turning
up the dial and collective the over overall it starts
(11:31):
to make a real difference speaking.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I mean, you mentioned the word silver bullet, but the
enforcement of the penalties, the punishment for people who accord
importing this stuff. Are you happy with where our laws
currently sit in New Zealand for what punishment is meet
it out?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Uh? Well, yes, the the the the maximum penalties for
drug offenses are significant. We haven't been you know, we've
been concerned about sentencing generally and very liberal approaches to
discount and that's why we've done a couple of things already,
which is bring back three strikes, which is a tough,
(12:10):
much tougher sentencing regime for serious repeat offenders. And while
we're also limited the ability of judges to discount sentences
to a maximum of forty percent and people say still
seems like a lot, but you know, some of them
are getting sixty or seventy percent discounts. You've got to
(12:30):
have some discount for pleading guilty is the most important thing,
because otherwise the court system will grind the hold. You've
got to have a benefit for pleading guilty. But we're
going to limit the ability for a massive discounts to occur.
So we do want to have tougher outcomes and tougher
sentences and send the clear message as part of the
overall package. And the idea there is, you know, a
(12:54):
order justice policy is all about reducing the number of
victims of crime, and a good place to start is
with that very small group of New Zealanders creating most
of them him and causing most of the victims. If
you start with them, that's a good place to start.
Just a myth. Its in of course, is that people
who are using myth five times more likely to be
(13:17):
involved in crime. And so it's important that we deal
with this.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Desperate needs called for desperate deeds. I'm just curious, you know.
I know that I should object to extra judicial killings
and stuff, and we're not going to go down that avenue.
But what was your reaction to the US approach of
seeing those them literally blowing drug boats out of the water.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Well, yeah, look, I mean it's it certainly is a
new approach, and I mean that they're categorizing it as
a war, and.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
So yeah, look, I'm not trying to be mischievous, but
you know, I know, I know that as a principal,
extra judicial killings and are not okay, and as I'm
a lawyer as well, and I know that, but I
must admit I didn't lose any sleep over the headlines.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, well that's their approach. Our approaches is what we're
talking about here, which is working away. You know, like
I said, three elements.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
How how will you measure how will you measure success
when will you know if they're good?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Well, the good the good thing, of course is that
you know we do all the wasteward testing, so there's
nowhere to hide. We know what's going on. There's been
a big increase. There was a big increase twenty three
to twenty four, and in twenty five it's it's no
longer increasing max message. It's come down a fraction, but
(14:42):
it's still very elevated levels and so we want to
keep that coming back down again and we're getting the
sunder control.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah. Look, Paul, I really appreciate your time. This saff
Andoon wish you all the best with making a Difference.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks It be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks dB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So the government has released an action plan to tackle
methanphetamine harm. Meth Use has doubled in the past year,
fueling organized crime, putting huge pressure on family, police health services.
So today the government has announced it'll be investing thirty
million dollars over four years into the hardest hit communities
with a package that spans a tougher enforcement, new maritime operations,
(00:32):
treatment funding and a national media campaign. The amount of
myths seized both here and offshore has increased two hundred
and sixty six percent over the past five years, and
the estimated social harm from meth use last year was
at one and a half billion, and Justice Minister Paul
Goldsmith joins me. Now, good afternoon, My good afternoon. That
(00:53):
wastewater testing the numbers there are seven hundred and thirty
two kilos in twenty twenty three, three to fourteen hundred
and thirty four. How on earth is it escalating so quickly?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, yeah, there's a number of things going on. Has
been a big increase in supply globally and that's put
the price down and there's a bit of a debate
to be had with it appears that it's a similar
number of people taking twice as much myth, and that's
(01:25):
what's going through to the system. But of course it
could also be some new users as well, and that's
what's concerning us.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Where is it coming from? Do you think all over?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
We were out at the customs place this afternoon, and
you know, some of the legitimate supply routes, there's and
you know, sort of working its way into all sorts
of things coming through legitimate channels, but there's also an
increased flow from South America and in Southeast Asia as well.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
We're basically importing it one way or another.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Yes, And so you look, the point of the action
plan is recognizing this goode that myth has in our communities,
and there's sort of three core elements to it. Stopping
it at the border, so dialing up our response there. Secondly,
dealing with the distribution within New Zealand, which is, you know,
dealing with organized crime and the gangs. And then thirdly,
(02:23):
of course you can do those two things as much
as you like, but if there's still a huge demand
for it, then that's a problem. So we're looking at
the demand side as well, and so that's where the
hard hitting media campaign. The good news on matter is
it's funded by the criminals themselves because it's coming out
of the Proceeds of Crime fund, combined with some better
(02:45):
some extra resources into the rehabilitation. So it's you know,
it's all designed now recognizing we've been fighting this for
twenty odd years. There's a lot of stuff that we
do that works, but we need to do more of it.
And then there's the new element, which is the media
campaign to really to tur people, stop people from getting
(03:05):
themselves onto the spandwagon.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
We talk about targeting supply, do we have the resources
to intercept those specific smuggling routes.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, well, we have resources that we put into it,
and of course, well there's still still stuff getting through.
And so it's a combination of intelligence and we share
a lot of intelligence with many other like minded countries,
and then we engage customers, the defense and you know,
(03:35):
all the security forces in order to get the best
chance we have. And you know, there's still more to do.
That's why you know, some elements are we're going to
be starting, you know, discussions about better screening at the ports.
In terms of port workers, more support workers, because you know,
we've seen too many cases of that in the past,
and so what when when you look at this plan,
(03:55):
it's not The point is there's no single silver billet.
There's not one thing you've got to do. There's about
twenty things that we're currently doing and we've got to
do it in a bit better, or put some extra resources,
or will give extra judicial tools. You know, if we're
dealing with police search and surveillancings, they need to be
updated for new technology and we're doing everything we can
to give ourselves the best shot to fight back.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
What's different about this plan compared to what other governments
might have tried previously.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well, well, the big I suppose the big difference is
the nationwide media campaign which it's funded. It's about six
million dollars, with just under six million dollars funded from
the proceed crime. You know, we haven't actually gone out
with a clear, simple message. You know, this is not
about using meth moderately or trying to do it in
(04:44):
a safe fashion. It's just a fair simple message don't
try it because it's a sort of drug that some
people just one go is enough to hook them and
lead to a downward spiral of chaos and disasters, so
don't try it. Send a very clear message there and
then across the other areas. It's all a matter of
(05:06):
building on all the things that we do at the moment,
but giving it a dialing it up and so at
the border in the distribution and also in the rehabilitation front.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
What is the So what will the media campaign look like?
I mean we can all we all remember, of course,
on products you can buy, like smoking, some pretty gruesome
ads and things, but of course there's not legal packaging
for the stuff. So how how can you give us
a glimpse of what a media campaign would look like?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, well that's going to be the challenge for the
Ministry of Health. Who we're going to be organized organizing
that and will be you know, I encourage the smartest
advertising minds and social media gurus and so forth to
come up with proposals because they'll be they'll be putting
the piecing that together over the next few months. And
you know, I've got to use all the channels to
(05:52):
get that message across. There's many things that have been
you know, we've sent messages, whether it's drink driving, smoking,
a whole bunch of a bunch of things, but we've
never really sent that clear message through through such a
camp pain. So that's what we're going to try and do.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Now there's thirty million dollars on treatment. How much of
how's that going to work? And how much of an
effect do you think that's going to have?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Well, you know, I mean there are a lot of
programs currently working at different levels to get people off
and there's a you know, often you hear that the
ability that people are ready to come off, but there
isn't the places available. So the extra thirty million dollars
(06:36):
allocated will provide more opportunities for more people to get
the rehabilitation. And you know, it's not an easy area,
you know, some of them. Ultimately the person has to
be ready to you know, sometimes have reached rock bottom
and be ready to start that process. But that's an
(06:57):
important part of it. The other element is, you know,
is a program called the Resistance to Organized Clime and Communities,
which is organized by the police and has worked quite
well in towns around the country where it's you know,
it's a combination of all the social agencies and the
police and everybody focused on you know, you come in,
you clean out the the gangs in the neighborhood, get
(07:20):
it sorted, and then don't just leave it there. Have
all the supports available to help a community get over
the over the top of us, and we you know,
we've heard some calls from people up in north and
before this this sort of thing, and so we've put
some extra money into that to keep that going longer.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Hey, so you mentioned that the amount of myth that's
being used, as we've talked about it doubling, but you
mentioned that it's pretty much the same addicts just using
more myth. So as the treatment.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Really that that's that's a theory. We don't we exact
we don't have the exact you know, sort of one
hundred percent proof on that, but we know that there's
a lot more coming through the waste water that the
you know, the advice we've had is it looks as
though it's a silli similar number of people having more,
but that's it's not one hundred percent clear. Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Are the police happy with the resources they've got to
tackle this with search and interception powers and other resources
they need.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Well, well, we continue to upgrade those and you know
this is the basic stuff that you need to keep
on doing, and we're doing that across the board so
as to give them to make sure that the search
and survalance powers are up to date for the latest
you know, sort of cloud gathering information and you know,
so it's an upgrade of all those things. Same thing
(08:44):
happening with money laundering. You know, we're doing a lot
of work in that area to make sure that our
empty money laundering laws are working effectively. And in part
of this package is standing up another team of police
to go after the to have more more prosecutions. Basically,
you know you've got and where it hurts, which is
the money.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
You want to seize assets. You want to seize assets faster.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You've said, the more that we can see, the more
we can use for programs like this as well. And
you know it's actually been a hugely, hugely successful thing
over the last ten to fifteen years that Proceede of
Crime Fund.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Because you said you want to yeah, you want to
said you want to see some faster. What's the benchmark
for being faster. If you've got an idea on how
quickly you want the begangs to feel that impact.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, well they are feeling it now and we want
to keep We want them to feel it more in
the future. And know that there are more people out
there in every element at the border, you know, the
money laundering side, and the search and the allen side,
all throughout the community as well, all sort of aiming
at making their life more difficult, and you know that's
(09:50):
what we're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You look at the Scaler's problem and it's pretty depressing
seeing those figures, isn't it. Do you feel that we're
fighting a bit of a losing battle in this stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Well, it's always it's been difficult, and it continues to
be difficult, but we can't give up that. You know,
there's a reason why these drugs are illegal is because
they cause such mayhem for many people in their blight communities.
And so you know, we're not giving up the fight.
But what we need to do is keep on raising
(10:25):
the bar of our response, and so that's what we're
doing here.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
What do you want people to take from this? I
see the explainer sheet that we're sent through. It involves
a lot of ministers, So Mitchell Costello, McKee, Goldsmith of you,
of course Collins, is that one of the things you
want to get past, to get through to the public
is that we're all working hard on this. What do
you want the public to take away from the.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Well, yeah, you know, we take it seriously. It's it's
it's not a problem that you can solve by you know,
one minister doing one thing. And you know there's no
silver bullet, as the obvious thing to say, but you know,
literally there's you've got to tackle it from the border,
from the organized crime and from the demand side, and
(11:10):
there's a whole host of things in each of those areas.
And the way that we approach these problems, complex problems
is just you know, to identify all the all the
different elements and make sure we're making progress on all
of them. And you know, there's not massive changes in
all of them, but the but they're you know, turning
up the dial and collective the over overall it starts
(11:31):
to make a real difference speaking.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I mean, you mentioned the word silver bullet, but the
enforcement of the penalties, the punishment for people who accord
importing this stuff. Are you happy with where our laws
currently sit in New Zealand for what punishment is meet
it out?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Uh? Well, yes, the the the the maximum penalties for
drug offenses are significant. We haven't been you know, we've
been concerned about sentencing generally and very liberal approaches to
discount and that's why we've done a couple of things already,
which is bring back three strikes, which is a tough,
(12:10):
much tougher sentencing regime for serious repeat offenders. And while
we're also limited the ability of judges to discount sentences
to a maximum of forty percent and people say still
seems like a lot, but you know, some of them
are getting sixty or seventy percent discounts. You've got to
(12:30):
have some discount for pleading guilty is the most important thing,
because otherwise the court system will grind the hold. You've
got to have a benefit for pleading guilty. But we're
going to limit the ability for a massive discounts to occur.
So we do want to have tougher outcomes and tougher
sentences and send the clear message as part of the
overall package. And the idea there is, you know, a
(12:54):
order justice policy is all about reducing the number of
victims of crime, and a good place to start is
with that very small group of New Zealanders creating most
of them him and causing most of the victims. If
you start with them, that's a good place to start.
Just a myth. Its in of course, is that people
who are using myth five times more likely to be
(13:17):
involved in crime. And so it's important that we deal
with this.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Desperate needs called for desperate deeds. I'm just curious, you know.
I know that I should object to extra judicial killings
and stuff, and we're not going to go down that avenue.
But what was your reaction to the US approach of
seeing those them literally blowing drug boats out of the water.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Well, yeah, look, I mean it's it certainly is a
new approach, and I mean that they're categorizing it as
a war, and.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
So yeah, look, I'm not trying to be mischievous, but
you know, I know, I know that as a principal,
extra judicial killings and are not okay, and as I'm
a lawyer as well, and I know that, but I
must admit I didn't lose any sleep over the headlines.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, well that's their approach. Our approaches is what we're
talking about here, which is working away. You know, like
I said, three elements.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
How how will you measure how will you measure success
when will you know if they're good?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Well, the good the good thing, of course is that
you know we do all the wasteward testing, so there's
nowhere to hide. We know what's going on. There's been
a big increase. There was a big increase twenty three
to twenty four, and in twenty five it's it's no
longer increasing max message. It's come down a fraction, but
(14:42):
it's still very elevated levels and so we want to
keep that coming back down again and we're getting the
sunder control.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah. Look, Paul, I really appreciate your time. This saff
Andoon wish you all the best with making a Difference.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks It be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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