December 20, 2025 • 39 mins
This year's international politics have been unstable to say the least.Trump's Tariffs, Gaza, Ukraine and the Epstein Files have been gifts that keep giving...or not.
But closer to home we've managed to dodge declarations of war. However, there's still lots to reflect on and discuss.
Former Speaker of the House Sir Lockwood Smith and Auckland Councilman Richard Hills join Tim Beveridge to wrap the year's politics, and give an insight into what to expect next year.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News talks'b
for Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And they live out at Huapie. They've moved out there,
which is a little bit of a hike from where
we live. And they mentioned in passing as it started
to get dark, I saw a few lights on houses
come up, and they said, Oh, it's going to go
crazy in a moment. You watch all the people are
going to be walking around here. Anyway, they live in
one of the streets where everyone decorates their houses with
(00:31):
amazing decorations and lights in there. And they are also
about I think eight or nine mini coopers all decked
out who drive around the streets. And all of a sudden,
it was just it was like downtown rush hour with
people wandering around looking at the lights and the houses,
and you know what, I thought to myself, what a
(00:52):
wonderful community that they've got that going. And it just
was a really lovely atmosphere. And I think sometimes those
are the simple little things where you really get a
nice sense of community and Christmas and all that. So anyway,
just thought to give a shout out to her pie.
But anyway, right now, okay, we're talking politics, as always
busy year. International politics, well they've been unstable, to say
the least. We've got Trump's tariffs, Gaza Ukraine, the Epstein files.
(01:16):
Closer to home, we've managed to dodge declarations of war,
of course, although we've no shortage of certain scandals, not
mentioning any names, mix skimming. The government's put a lot
of focus on slowing the sinking economy, focus on telling
everyone we need to trust the process. We've had to
party MARII seem to have imploded. Rbn Z, the Reserve
(01:36):
Bank's got a new governor. We've seen the cash rate
probably reach its bottom at the Treaty principles, build bunches
of things. Harkers in Parliament. I'm almost out of breath anyway,
So it hasn't been dull and joining me to wrap
the year and give their take on things. We have
former Speaker of the House, and I would say illustrious
Speaker of the House, because every time his name comes up,
(01:57):
everyone thinks, gosh, it wasn't Lockwood Smith a great speaker.
Lockward's with me today, Lockwood, how are you going good?
It's so good to hear you, to hear you as well,
and Auckland counselor who's at an earlier stage of his
political career, is joining us as well. Richard Richard Hills,
Good a suita.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
How's it going.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'm all right, so look, let's just get into Let's
get into it, shall we. I thought we'd start with
just what is the standout We'll start with you first, Richard,
What is the standout issue being to you? For you
for the year? If you just look back at the
year in politics, what's the thing that goes bing that
(02:36):
pops out.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Yeah, I think it's probably the response to the Treaty
Principles Bill. I don't necessarily think the government really expected
the response they got. We had everyone from young people
to celebrities, to people on the street, to churches to
anyone coming out. I don't think since the seed bed
of the four sorry the foreshore and sea bed, that
(02:58):
we've seen that sort of massykoy to the level it was.
And I think it was just also a made distraction.
But it kind of the first six months of the
year was all that politics kind of was consumed by,
despite everyone knowing it was supposedly not going to go ahead.
But I think even the Select Committee process the sort
(03:19):
of big names, the sort of Jenny Shipleys versus the
Ruth Richardson's on either side of the debate, and things
like that. I think it was a little window into
into our society.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Okay, a little window into our society. What did the
window reveal?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
I mean, I think it revealed some racism, quite a
lot of it. But I think it also revealed that
we've actually come so far, and it seemed to me
like a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
In my life.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I'm thirty nine, I've only seen progress, to be honest,
in this area. So John Keith government, if you look
back at Bulger's legacy, Helen Clark, obviously the Cebndonforshaw was
a significant blip, but I think under the last government
as well, just really positive moves for young people in
my line of work and others just see, you know,
(04:09):
martyrdom and culture and hooker as something really positive. And
then to sort of see it all flipped on his
head for almost no reason.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
It felt nice for me.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's funny, Richard, because I sort of just parked it
and forgot about it once it was all over. But
maybe that's it's just the job of talkback. You move on. Well, Lockward,
let's bring you in on. I guess on what do
you reckon about the treaty principle's bill and the legacy
yet left or didn't, and but also what was your
big issue for the year that stands out?
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I guess sim I was a bit like you.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
You know, once it was over, I packed it too,
although it's not going to go away. You know, I
was part of the cabinet that decided to proceed with
the whole treaty settlements process. You know, I give huge
kudos just to Doug Graham and the Ronoval, Jim Bolgy.
You know, they showed such courage because back then, you know,
even in our own party, there was a favorite opposition
(05:01):
to the whole treaty settlement process, and yet we went
ahead with it. And I think it was a classic
example of how it was possible to do tough things
pre mmp m MP's made it very difficult to do
tough things. But anyhow, I think, you know, the whole
treaty issue, treaty principle is not going to go away.
It'll be an evolving thing over time, and so be
(05:23):
it to me. The issue to me, I guess I'm
a bit of a policy wonk, you know, over my
time in politics, and to me, the I think the
big issue of this year is the reform of the
Resource Management Act. I just think that is going to
have such a profound impact on New Zealand's economic success.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
And it's a classic.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Example of why the Regulatory Standards Act matters, because the
Resource Management Act a real example of poor quality regulation
holding the well being of New Zealanders back.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Just something awful.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Actually, yeah, actually, just we'll get onto that, and just
to take look, what is there a degree of frustration that,
in fact the cause of treaty settlements has advanced quite
a lot, ironically under national governments. So although it seems
to be labor that Maric is the natural sort of
partner and government. But that was that frustrating for you know,
(06:17):
for for you back in your time in parliament, because
under Doug Graham, I mean it really it really got legs,
didn't it.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
Well we I mean I was in that cabinet with
sadug and it was a courageous thing to do.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Yet it was the right thing to do.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
You know, there were there are there are real treaty
grievances that needed to be addressed. They could never be
totally put right. You know, you can never rewrite, you
go back over history and make things totally right. We
you know, today's taxpayers have done their best to to
make some a real effort to make up for the
(06:55):
wrongs in the past. To me, that's quite a different
thing from because you know, the treaty was very clear
on protection of property rights, whereas once you start getting
into more recent things around partnership and all that sort
of stuff, you're really, you know, getting into more challenging areas.
But I think the Treaty Settlement's process has been excellent process.
MO big frustration is Northland Napoui. You know, it just
(07:19):
frustrates the hell out of me. These Malti people in Northland,
the people of Napui, you know, some of the poorer
people of Northland, and the ewe Is has forsaken hundreds
of millions of dollars for the last thirty years. They
could have had a court of a billion dollars to
help their people and grown it into you know, so much,
(07:40):
and I just can't believe they've allowed that opportunity to
slip through their hands.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Is that because of the indecisiveness and the disagreements within
Napuoi itself, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
It has been a bit of a challenge indeed. Yeah,
the various hupoo I think struggle to agree on things.
Yet they've got to sort it out because the benefits
for the Malti people of Northland, of Napoui or Taitokua
are just fantastic and it's something that I hope we
can get on.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Actually, who are the who are the rock stars with
an ewe? I'll get both of you on this when
it comes to actually having taken those settlements and transformed
themselves into real forces of nature. Obviously Naitahu and tiny
We are the ones that come to mind for me.
What do you reckon Richard, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Mean definitely the Ta who Taui and then in.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Open sense Nulti fatal order okay, and some of that,
Some of that is obviously because the assets and the
there or here are obviously in the city center and
and worth a lot. But actually they've built up great business,
is great partnership with us on the council and and
all sorts of big infrastructure projects they've got, you know,
the working with precinct on big developments, private developments in
(08:47):
the city center now so, and I think people forget
all that money. You know, the profits of that go
back into into the communities, into the final into into
the education and furthering the you know, the whole ewe themselves.
But it is it does, I guess, matter what point
of the cycle, you able to get access to assets
(09:09):
that were stripped away hundreds of years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
What's your take, Richard, Well, I've got on the Ironically,
so the Treaty Principle's Bill was something that got you know,
a lot of discussion, a lot of headlines. In the end,
it didn't go very far, and yet we've got lock
what is referred to the reform of the Resource Management Act,
which I got to say from a talkback point of view,
and the average punter doesn't really know what to make
(09:34):
of it. It's not something that really generates a lot
of conversation, although if you look at individual problems that
it causes, there can be lots of conversations about, you know,
the problems that has. What do you think about the
idea of the resource management reform?
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Yeah, I mean it definitely needs reform, chair the policy
and Planning Committee, and you know the it is complex
and most people don't understand it, and it does create
a lot of cost. But on the other side of
the coin, people do expect their neighbors to have a
(10:11):
lot of restrictions, or the factory down the road, or
the business that is putting leachad into the rivers. So
it is going to be interesting to see the Minister
find that balance. And I think the last government tried,
and I think this new bill or these new two
bills will be quite similar to the last government's attempt
(10:32):
at it. But yeah, I think the devil is always
in the detail, and I think most people will not
read the seven hundred and fifty current pages and won't
necessarily understand the difference between the current RMA and the
new one. But I think, yeah, there is an issue
that if we go too far not regulating which sounds
(10:52):
good from an economic point of view, you can miss
a lot of beats and then people start getting upset
in their favorite beaches X, y Z, or their neighbors
don't have the restrictions that they want, but they quite
enjoy being able to do more with their own property
or their own assets.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So it's always a catch twenty two.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
As a counselor, you hear a lot of people sending
you emails saying, oh, I couldn't do this extension without this,
I couldn't do that, and then as soon as it
flips the other way, everyone, you know, I go to
public meetings and everyone expects that counselors or locals get
a say on the latest consent across the road or
the latest apartment building, which nine times out of ten
no one gets a say on the department building across
(11:33):
the street. Now, so the RMA will kind of allow
that to happen more often than people need to understand
where the balance has to be found.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, while we're asking you guys about the biggest issue domestically,
we've got, of course, there's been a lot of big
stories internationally. I don't know. I don't really like saying
what's the biggest story being because it makes it sound
like one is more importantly. The two that stand out
to me, the issue with Israel, Gaza and Ukraine are
(12:03):
the two big issues that have the two big things
that we well, I don't know if we've seen some
resolution on any of those yet, But what do you
reckon Lockwood.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
To me, I'm bit with you.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
There's the Ukraine issue to me is horrific. You know,
I I should be careful criticizing other leaders, but President Putin,
I just do not understand the you know, where the
guys coming from. I'm just horrified by what's gone on there.
And so while Gaza was also it was also horrific.
(12:35):
I guess it was sparked by an outrageous attack by
Hamas on Israel, and whereas the Ukrainian situation was a
bit different because you know, Putin just decided to invade
and and it's it's been tragic to see what's what's
going on there. And one hopes that in trying to
(12:57):
settle me I find some peace resolution, peaceful resolution to
it that you know, the invader doesn't aim too much
in that in that resolution process.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, I mean, actually, it's interesting you said you don't understand.
I was wondering if you don't relate to Putin because
I sort of think I understand that he's just a meglomaniac.
He wants to restore the Soviet Union borders. You know
what I mean, you don't relate to it. I mean, sorry,
you don't relate to it. But do we have an
idea what makes him tech? Apart from my ear, it
was just a complete BASTI d But I hear.
Speaker 6 (13:31):
What you're saying, because I first met him in nineteen
ninety nine. He led the Russian delegation to Apek when
we were cheering Apec in ninety nine, and ituse I
was cheering the trade in missus process there and Mattin briefly,
and I never got no putin. But to me, you're right,
I mean I don't. I've got to confess I don't
(13:52):
understand how his brain works. Because while you're right, I
think you know, he's seeking to cure the grandiosity of
restoring some of the old Soviet Union borders. What I
don't understand is how a human being can be so
uncaring of the lives is destroying, not just in Ukraine,
his own people's lives, you know, his own soldiers that
(14:12):
have died in their multi thousands there on the battlefield.
And I just don't under I just cannot relate to
that kind of inhuman attitude from a leader.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I despise the.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Blow, Yeah, well did I, But I guess that's Richard.
I mean, is a psychopath. Probably, But is there what
hope do you hold out that there there might be
some progress on this?
Speaker 4 (14:35):
For me, progress on Ukraine. I mean, it just seems
like a forever, forever issue now. I think the key
thing that the kind of NATO states or all of
us really need to take hold of is that if
the borders come down or Ukraine is permanently occupied, then
(14:56):
you have an issue with how far into Europe this
goes and whether the acceptance that anyone can just take
over anyone's borders. And I guess, although I agree with
lock with this latest kind of horrendous situation in Gaza
has was sparked by it. There's another horrendous October seven
(15:21):
terror attack, it is probably the Gaza. Israel's situation has
been easily is it the long probably the longest conflict,
maybe well in in my lifetime, you know, probably I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Know, longer than your lifetime. I mean, it's been going
since Israel was created, I guess.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
So you've got this constant uprising of both sides of
the argument, the rest of the world trying to tell
everyone to play nice, and clearly no one has a
hold in it. And then you're seeing potentially we don't
know all the details of why, but you know, Australia,
this this situation is another horrendous symptom of this whole
(16:05):
conflict as well. And you just got everyone on all
sides of both Ukraine and the Gaza situations that kind
of picking sides and not really understanding the full pictures
of everything. And most people just want people to stop dying,
and civilians to stop dying.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think, I think the frustrating thing. I mean, it's
so difficult when you are not I mean to both
of you when we're not you know, we're not in
Bondi in Sydney, but we've seen what's gone on. But
the one thing I really I struggle with people who
say that I'm trying to pick my words diplomatically here,
but I struggle with people having a crack at Albanezi
(16:41):
saying that it's his fault because he recognized wanted to
recognize the state of Palestine. And I just think that
that's grossly unfair to say that. You know, if you
are resisting what Netnya and Israel have prosecuted in Palestina
over the last couple of years, that somehow you're enabling
the opposite that enabling terror. I just think that they're
(17:03):
too different ish that too. They can well they they
are different issues, aren't they. Well Lockward helped me out here.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
No, I think I think you're right, and that it's
one step too far to make that, to make that claim.
And you know it's a it's a difficult, difficult situation,
as you've both said.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
You know, it's been going on for years.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
I mean I was even involved for a while. I
met with the past the leaders of the Palestine Authority
years ago when I was Trade Minister, and it's a
step too far, I think to blame alban easy like that. However,
I think it's also simplistic just to you know, we've
seen in New Zealand, particularly the Green Party wearing their
(17:45):
shawls into Parliament or scarvet whatever it is, into Parliament
every day. I don't think that's been great. You know,
if I was speak Rod and have allowed that, I
think to allow that kind of protests inside the house
is inappropriate in a place that's a place of debate.
Parliament is big means big speak literally and where you
know pro his garb like that in there, I think
(18:07):
is most unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, look, I want to dig into it just a
little bit more in the Ukraine before we wrap up,
Before before we move on to other topics, we'll just
take a quick break. We're with Richard hills Auckland councilor
and former Speaker of the House lockwood Smith talking about
the year that will, the year almost that was. We'll
be back in just a moment. Twenty seven past three
news talks. He'd be.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Oh, mister Kringle soon gone to jingle the bells out
a tingle, all your travels away.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Everybody's waiting while the man with the bag cause Christmas
is coming again.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
He's gone.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That's welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is Politics Central.
We're having had wrapping the year with Richard hills Auckland
councilor and former Speaker of the House and politician lockwood Smith.
Just quickly, guys, to wrap up. Are you hopeful with somebody?
Some have seen that press conference with Putin on Ukraine
and his response to questions from the BBC Steve Rosenberg
(19:16):
that you know that he says the plans to attack
Europe and nonsense, and some have said, is that potentially
a novel Olive Branch. I mean, just what do you
make of it? Lockwood? Yep? How we just turn you
on their lock What have you got there? Now? On Lockwood?
Have we got you? Uh? Let's let's see Richard's there?
Speaker 5 (19:37):
You there?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Richard?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I'm still here.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Okay, I think we've lost what do you reckon? Richard?
We've just lost Lockwood for a second.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I haven't seen the I haven't seen the press conference,
but I don't think there's any trust there with Putin.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
That probably fair enough. Okay, we'll stick with you until
we were just check that we've got lock I think
we've got You've got you there, Lockwood?
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Can you hear good?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Okay? Yeah, sorry, just had a little bit technical. Hey,
let's go with Let's get to the domestic things. Who
is your Lockwldsmith? Who's your politician of the year.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
So it's a difficult thing to pick.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Let me just run through a couple of I think,
you know, the Prime minist think has done a great
job in keeping the coalition effective. That's a challenging job
and he's done a great job. I think you know,
in right, MD. Winston Peters has done a hell of
a good job as our Foreign Minister, I think he's
done a good job, and David Seymour, the act Leader,
I think it's not an excellent job with especially the
regultary standard spell. I can't emphasize that too much because
(20:35):
of research I've been involved in globally around how important
that is. But if I came to mind, my pick
for the the Government Politician of the Year is between
two people. I think Chris Bishop with his IR and
a reform. As I said before, that's critically important for
New Zealand. But the person I've chosen is actually Erica
Stanford because educating yours education minists from as six years,
(20:56):
and education affects the future of every young New Zealander,
and I think the reforms she's bringing in are so
desperately needed. And I just hope in reforming the NCA,
she doesn't go back to the old drafting gate that
school Certificate was back pre the National Qualifications Framework and NCA,
(21:17):
because all that did was just, you know, just the
results of exams until fifty percent passing, fifty percent failed.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
We don't want that.
Speaker 6 (21:27):
But the whole reform that I started in the early
nineties is all about setting the standards we expect at
that level of schooling, and instead of setting the standards
and basing exams on those standards, in passing those that
meet those standards, things got broken down to these crazy
achievement standards, these little bits of knowledge or little bits
of learning, and it destroyed the whole vision.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
I think.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
I think Eric is reform work around the basics and
education again emphasizing knowledge. This matters so much because you
can't think without a knowledge framework. You can't think you
know effectively without literacy, and you can't think analytically without humorously.
And so I'm a big supporter of the work she's doing.
That's why she's my politicians.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Actually we'll stick with the government politician of the year
because I'll get from Lockwood. You have to think about
your opposition politician of the year while I go to Richard.
Who's your politician on the government side being Richard?
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Yeah, probably it's a toss up between Chris Bishop and
Chris pink both. You know, not that I agree with
everything they're doing, but both engage with us all can
Council really positively. But also they seem to be across
their work program should a huge work program, but also
(22:42):
just get on with it. Yes, Chris Bishop can be
you know, buy into some of the nonsense that goes
on in Parliament. But both seem to be kind of
heads down. A huge amount of work going on, and
you know, I don't agree with all the direction, but
I think they are really putting forward.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
You know that changing things done.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, and I think that's.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
All you want from you know, you might not agree
with all of it, but they are clear with their
convictions and are doing it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah. Okay, let's go to the opposition at the opposition benches,
who's your politician of their Lowkwood?
Speaker 6 (23:16):
Well, just before I do that to M, I agree
with Richard actually that I think Chris Pink has done
a good job. You know, I think that was an
interesting choice of It's a bit of.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
An unsigned hero, isn't he.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
You know I've always picked him as having real ability,
but long before even got in de Parliament, I thought
that great for the future.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Look in the opposition.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
The one I've come down on the side I've come
down on him is actually Barbara Edmonds. I think you know,
if you look at Labour's background and the whole issue
around taxation and spending is a challenging issue within labor,
within the Labor Party, if you like. And Barbara's been
able to find a sort of a way to hold
(23:56):
the party together in a reasonably pretty coherent sort of
a way around economic issues. And so I think it's
been quite in a eatment from her. I think she's
a very capable person. And so my opposition MP is
Barbara Edmonds Good.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think that's a pretty good choice. What do you
reckon Richard position star?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I was going to say Barbara too, but maybe I
choose someone else.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
It just may be less known. Adana Williams, I think
is a rising star. She's you know, I might not
have seen all her speeches, but she seems to be
you know, over the topics. She connects well through social
media at events. She's just a really positive person. And
I think people if they're going to change their vote
or move to a different party, or change the government
(24:41):
next year, they want to see people that are giving
some hope, giving some positivity. I think there's too much
negativity around politics, and I think she kind of strikes
the right balance of keeping the government honest but also
being like here's what we'll do, and here's some great stuff.
And come down to my local x y Z for
this event. And that's what a good local electric politician
should be doing too.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
It's funny, you know, Lockwood touched on Christopher Luxe and
and it's it's sort of like it's a mention in
dispatches because from people as ministers and the way he
runs cabinet, it seems that he's got a really good
team of ministers and he's good at sitting out expectations
and setting targets and all that. But it just he's
not ticking the box when it comes to that sort
of retail politician appeal, is he Lockwood?
Speaker 6 (25:25):
Yeah, you're right, Sam, But to me, i'd far sooner
have as prime minister someone who can do those things,
get a cabinet working effectively, get good decisions being made,
a cohesive approach.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
And progress.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
You know, he sets targets and wants to see progress,
and I support that. You know, we've had prime ministers
who are good on the playing the politics if you like,
But I'd faster have someone not so good on that,
but really good on having a cabinet working effectively.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, what about I do want to ask you one
more thing before we wrap it. Up, guys, and for me,
I think probably off the top of my head political
train wreck of the year would probably be And I
don't think this necessarily counts for anything when it comes
to the election, but currently I think to Party Mari
(26:15):
have been the train wreck of the year. But it
doesn't mean that I think they're going to be a
train wreck next year, because I think they've still got
a constituency they could still perform really well. But watch
the space Richard.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, I did want to back you up on Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
I think if you look at Key English Idearn, I
just don't get much from Prime Minister likes and maybe
he is a behind the scenes kind of guy, but
if you look at someone who speaks to New Zealanders
or invigorates or I wouldn't know his a view on
sort of where we're going. So he will have to
show that in the election campaign next year of what
(26:51):
he actually believes New Zealander is about and what we
you know, where we're heading. It does feel a bit messy.
But to Pati Marti, oh my goodness. They went from
their most successful election and then also a phenomenal election
and Hamaki Makoda the by election after the sad loss
of one of the MPs, and then they just completely
blew up. I couldn't even tell you what was going
(27:12):
on right now. And I'm assuming a couple of their
you know, Hannah Raftery might p Clark, will be re
elected people like that in their seats because Marty voter
is very strategic around the electric versus their party vote.
But it's so messy and how they have not been
able to capitalize on what my opinion is one of
the most kind of anti Maori governments in my lifetime.
(27:36):
You know, they haven't been able to capitalize and come
together on that. It's just a massive I can't understand
what has happened there. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yes, well, I mean, of course a lot of but
there are a lot of Mario would say that to
party Mari is not necessarily the party for them either,
but that's probably the problem they've got. But what do
you reckon in terms of the train wreck of the year, Lockwood?
Speaker 6 (27:55):
I think you're right, it's got to be ted party, Maury,
And to me it's so sad. You know, I don't
know the current leadership and party Maori, but I did
know very well, the founders of the party and named
Tadianaturia and sub Peter Sharples, some of the finest people
you'd ever meet. And and I'm just sad that their
great heritage is uh is almost been trampled over by
(28:19):
the current leadership and tipart them up Ti party Maori,
the you know, the lack of respect for Parliament itself.
You know, when when we visit them Aria, we try to,
you know, to comply with the protocols and the kowa
pikung and color of that of that meeting place, if
you like. Yet they show no respect for the protocols
of of the of our House of Representatives, of which
(28:41):
they are apart. And and I think you were right
that so many Maori want the same as everyone else wants.
They want, you know, they want to have a chance
to get on in life. They want the very best
for their.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I think Lockwoods hit as a mute button again. Actually,
so I'm just going to have one more question of
you guys, and we'll see if we can get Lockwood
back as well. I'm not sure what's happened there, but Richard,
opinion polls, the late latest ones have been all over
the place. Do you do you follow the opinion polls much?
I just look at them and go on margin evera
(29:17):
move on, what do you reckon the Can you hear
me now? Yes, yes, I can hear you.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Cool. Yeah, it sounded like you cut off the poles
and yeah, the last two were pretty different. But if
you do.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
I was looking in research for talking to you today.
The poll of polls is quite surprising if you think
we were two years ago, you know, having Labor sort
of solidly averagely above National, New Zealand Person Act seem
to be swapping places every pole, and the Greens, with
all the troubles they had last year a little bit
(29:50):
this year they seem to have stuck fairly close to
what they got in the last election.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
So it is a bit strange.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
But I think the big the big issue will be
for those big parties is that you know, National dropping
below Labor, and Labor in my opinion, not doing a
huge amount apart from maybe not getting in the way
of the government stumbles. They haven't shown a huge amount
of you know, proactive policy releases or anything sort of amazing,
(30:16):
but they seem to be ahead of National and most polls,
so it will be interesting to see next year.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
How much it all bounces around and.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Quite a lot. I would say, have we got you
there still Lockwood? No, we've we've lost Lockwood. Look, we
might actually have to wrap it up there. But hey, Richard,
I really appreciate your time this afternoon. Thanks for your
take on things.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And no worries.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Merry Christmas, yeah, oh, Merry Christmas. Yeah? Done all you
Christmas shopping?
Speaker 4 (30:42):
No, not yet, finish, finish work and get some done
at the late night malls.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I think good stuff. And Sir Lockwood Smith, of course,
somebody's told me off not referring to Lockwoo as Sir
Lockwood every time I check to him. But I think
we've lost Sir Lockwood, so I do appreciate his time
this afternoon as well. I want to throw it over
to you on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, just
your political moment of the year, but also the one
A is an losers who were the stars for you
(31:06):
and the ones who you sort of think, well, you know,
maybe not so not so flash. Give us a call
on that. Eight hundred eighty ten to eighty is the number,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty, So yes, your standout politician
for the year as well as you if you wont year,
if you had predictions for next year as well. Because
of the last show for Politics Central, we've got some
time to take your cause. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
(31:30):
We'll be back in just a moment. It's seventeen minutes
to four news talks. He'd be these news talks. He'd
be taking your cause on the year. That will almost was, well,
I mean almost was. It's not quite over yet, so anyway, Dallas, Hello, Oh.
Speaker 7 (31:50):
Hi, Jimmy Nery Christmas.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Compliments of the season, Compliments of the season.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
Yeah, how My most influential politicians have to be Seymour
though I don't like him, of course, but he is
just everywhere. He's always available twenty four to seven for
a quote. It's almost at times like he's the leader
(32:17):
of the coalition. He's been so outfront in terms of
the media driving that, and he's and he comes up
with sort of passy quotes too. He's quite good on
that sort of score. So i'd have to say David
Steam was my posticially year.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
That is an unexpected one from you, Dallas. Who's the worst?
Speaker 7 (32:43):
No, I'm not talking about his worst of death. I mean,
I just can't stand David Seaman. But I'm talking about influence.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Well, what I mean is who has well, who has? Okay,
I won't I won't push you on that one. What
about where do you go with Winston his partner in crime?
If you think of the two deputy prime ministers.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
Winston, I'm really worried about him his health. I just
don't think he's I think he's struggling with the breathing. Okay,
So I'm worried about him. Actually that's okay.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Oh well, we won't spect lad on that. But I
mean in terms of the I mean, there's been an
interesting time, hasn't it with those two sort of sidekicks
for lux And I'm sure they'd hate to be called
side kicks anyway.
Speaker 7 (33:29):
When he's the same age as Trump, I think, isn't
he's eighty or well?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
One of them's got his faculties. One in that name
is Winston Peters to the other one down.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
There when he's got his faculty, that's for sure. So
I think Erica Stanson, yeah, I think she's doing well. Education, Yeah,
who was yeah? Bishop here was RMA reforms.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, it's got no good interesting take on Seamo and
Merry Christmas. Mate, We'll talk soon. Cheers, Okay, bye bye, Maana.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I'm all right, thanks, Hayden, I'm.
Speaker 8 (34:08):
Good, good. Yeah, I'm just listening to your program about
the politics that's going on at the moment. In summarizing
twenty twenty five, well.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We barely scratch the surface, really, but I mean, what
stands out for you.
Speaker 8 (34:25):
I think, particularly twenty twenty four twenty twenty five is
the racism that this current government is quite particular and strategic.
I've always point kicked, pointing and marginalizing our indigenous people
here in what stands.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Out for you? In what way? What's the next for that?
Speaker 8 (34:48):
So I heard Sir Lockwood talk about Erica stupid I
call her Eric Stanford and the new policies in regards
to education when we've had the worst unions, the teachers
unions in the secondary school unions been striking all year
and they've only just put something maybe that we've kind
(35:10):
of agreed to. And I see that Indy I haven't
agreed to the primary sectors. And that's regards to her
taking out reference to the education Boards of Trustees not
being able to do their own thing with the treaty
and manifa with a kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
And I think that they've she said, still said that
that schools can do there, they can do it. They
they've just they've just taken it out of it generally. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (35:36):
Yeah, I quite clearly told her quite six hundred and
fifty schools have have sent letters from the boards of
trustee to tell her quite clearly your rule that you've
just you know, swapped over with the current kick cabinet's
actually incorrect and there's not going to be an education
schools because at least with these boards of trustees, they're
(35:57):
clear that New Zealanders don't want to go down that
past racial kind of education policy.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I disagree with you. I just think that the relationship
between Mary and Crown has nothing to do with school boards.
And I don't think we have a problem with within
our educational institutions with that stuff, but we could. That
would be a whole hour of talkback. But thanks for
your cornmore and I appreciate it. Peter.
Speaker 9 (36:18):
Hello, Well, well, the third politician is the High Court
judge that gave the person expelled from the Murray Party
the lifeline until the hearing.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Next year.
Speaker 9 (36:32):
Then the worst politician. I think that it's a photo finish.
I don't think I've been particularly impressed across the line
government or opposition. But if you look at the numbers,
I can't remember the name of that Maray party, not
the co leader's, not the ones that have been expelled,
but the one who's gone up on the polls, the
(36:53):
young Murray lady who placed the Foreign affairs.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Hana my Peri. God, I always get the name muddled up.
I get which way it goes around.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
But her polling is suggested that you know, she will
replace the Code leaders, so she really hasn't done anything
wrong as far as the polling is concerned. Yeah, but
you know, I think it's been a highly disciplined point
in time for after the election up until now really,
(37:23):
and you look at deficits to come and you know,
I'm just not impressed with its sort of borrowing hope
for the future. And it doesn't matter whether you're a government,
no difference.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, Well, what is a tough one, isn't it. I
think get into you because you don't want to suddenly
stop spending just to balance the box, because we've got
so much stuff we need to invest in which that's
a complex business thing and government have to say. I'm
not sure I want to do the job. But anyway,
we'll be back in just a moment of seven and
a half minutes to four new stalks. He'd be.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes, a.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Little bit of a chart that wraps up Politics Central
for the for the year. Hey, thank you by the
way to all our political junkies out there who've corresponded
with the show and called up and texted and everything. Yeah,
I really appreciate it. So we're looking forward to the
next couple of hours. At five for Smart Money, we're
talking with Janet Zukara about trust. It's very popular hours.
(38:31):
If you've got some questions for Janet, then jump on it.
And but coming up next for the Health Hub, we're
talking food as we love to do it this Christmas
time of the year with Allison Gofton talking about how
do you how do you actually feed lots of people
without losing your mind and also balancing and indulging versus
you well being. I don't know, does it just go
(38:51):
out the window for Christmas? I mean anyway, we'll be
talking all things food with Alison Gofton and taking your
calls next News Talks dB.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
For more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to News
Talk sed B weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News talks'b
for Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And they live out at Huapie. They've moved out there,
which is a little bit of a hike from where
we live. And they mentioned in passing as it started
to get dark, I saw a few lights on houses
come up, and they said, Oh, it's going to go
crazy in a moment. You watch all the people are
going to be walking around here. Anyway, they live in
one of the streets where everyone decorates their houses with
(00:31):
amazing decorations and lights in there. And they are also
about I think eight or nine mini coopers all decked
out who drive around the streets. And all of a sudden,
it was just it was like downtown rush hour with
people wandering around looking at the lights and the houses,
and you know what, I thought to myself, what a
(00:52):
wonderful community that they've got that going. And it just
was a really lovely atmosphere. And I think sometimes those
are the simple little things where you really get a
nice sense of community and Christmas and all that. So anyway,
just thought to give a shout out to her pie.
But anyway, right now, okay, we're talking politics, as always
busy year. International politics, well they've been unstable, to say
the least. We've got Trump's tariffs, Gaza Ukraine, the Epstein files.
(01:16):
Closer to home, we've managed to dodge declarations of war,
of course, although we've no shortage of certain scandals, not
mentioning any names, mix skimming. The government's put a lot
of focus on slowing the sinking economy, focus on telling
everyone we need to trust the process. We've had to
party MARII seem to have imploded. Rbn Z, the Reserve
(01:36):
Bank's got a new governor. We've seen the cash rate
probably reach its bottom at the Treaty principles, build bunches
of things. Harkers in Parliament. I'm almost out of breath anyway,
So it hasn't been dull and joining me to wrap
the year and give their take on things. We have
former Speaker of the House, and I would say illustrious
Speaker of the House, because every time his name comes up,
(01:57):
everyone thinks, gosh, it wasn't Lockwood Smith a great speaker.
Lockward's with me today, Lockwood, how are you going good?
It's so good to hear you, to hear you as well,
and Auckland counselor who's at an earlier stage of his
political career, is joining us as well. Richard Richard Hills,
Good a suita.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
How's it going.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'm all right, so look, let's just get into Let's
get into it, shall we. I thought we'd start with
just what is the standout We'll start with you first, Richard,
What is the standout issue being to you? For you
for the year? If you just look back at the
year in politics, what's the thing that goes bing that
(02:36):
pops out.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Yeah, I think it's probably the response to the Treaty
Principles Bill. I don't necessarily think the government really expected
the response they got. We had everyone from young people
to celebrities, to people on the street, to churches to
anyone coming out. I don't think since the seed bed
of the four sorry the foreshore and sea bed, that
(02:58):
we've seen that sort of massykoy to the level it was.
And I think it was just also a made distraction.
But it kind of the first six months of the
year was all that politics kind of was consumed by,
despite everyone knowing it was supposedly not going to go ahead.
But I think even the Select Committee process the sort
(03:19):
of big names, the sort of Jenny Shipleys versus the
Ruth Richardson's on either side of the debate, and things
like that. I think it was a little window into
into our society.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Okay, a little window into our society. What did the
window reveal?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
I mean, I think it revealed some racism, quite a
lot of it. But I think it also revealed that
we've actually come so far, and it seemed to me
like a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
In my life.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I'm thirty nine, I've only seen progress, to be honest,
in this area. So John Keith government, if you look
back at Bulger's legacy, Helen Clark, obviously the Cebndonforshaw was
a significant blip, but I think under the last government
as well, just really positive moves for young people in
my line of work and others just see, you know,
(04:09):
martyrdom and culture and hooker as something really positive. And
then to sort of see it all flipped on his
head for almost no reason.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
It felt nice for me.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's funny, Richard, because I sort of just parked it
and forgot about it once it was all over. But
maybe that's it's just the job of talkback. You move on. Well, Lockward,
let's bring you in on. I guess on what do
you reckon about the treaty principle's bill and the legacy
yet left or didn't, and but also what was your
big issue for the year that stands out?
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I guess sim I was a bit like you.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
You know, once it was over, I packed it too,
although it's not going to go away. You know, I
was part of the cabinet that decided to proceed with
the whole treaty settlements process. You know, I give huge
kudos just to Doug Graham and the Ronoval, Jim Bolgy.
You know, they showed such courage because back then, you know,
even in our own party, there was a favorite opposition
(05:01):
to the whole treaty settlement process, and yet we went
ahead with it. And I think it was a classic
example of how it was possible to do tough things
pre mmp m MP's made it very difficult to do
tough things. But anyhow, I think, you know, the whole
treaty issue, treaty principle is not going to go away.
It'll be an evolving thing over time, and so be
(05:23):
it to me. The issue to me, I guess I'm
a bit of a policy wonk, you know, over my
time in politics, and to me, the I think the
big issue of this year is the reform of the
Resource Management Act. I just think that is going to
have such a profound impact on New Zealand's economic success.
Speaker 5 (05:40):
And it's a classic.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Example of why the Regulatory Standards Act matters, because the
Resource Management Act a real example of poor quality regulation
holding the well being of New Zealanders back.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Just something awful.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Actually, yeah, actually, just we'll get onto that, and just
to take look, what is there a degree of frustration that,
in fact the cause of treaty settlements has advanced quite
a lot, ironically under national governments. So although it seems
to be labor that Maric is the natural sort of
partner and government. But that was that frustrating for you know,
(06:17):
for for you back in your time in parliament, because
under Doug Graham, I mean it really it really got legs,
didn't it.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
Well we I mean I was in that cabinet with
sadug and it was a courageous thing to do.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Yet it was the right thing to do.
Speaker 6 (06:32):
You know, there were there are there are real treaty
grievances that needed to be addressed. They could never be
totally put right. You know, you can never rewrite, you
go back over history and make things totally right. We
you know, today's taxpayers have done their best to to
make some a real effort to make up for the
(06:55):
wrongs in the past. To me, that's quite a different
thing from because you know, the treaty was very clear
on protection of property rights, whereas once you start getting
into more recent things around partnership and all that sort
of stuff, you're really, you know, getting into more challenging areas.
But I think the Treaty Settlement's process has been excellent process.
MO big frustration is Northland Napoui. You know, it just
(07:19):
frustrates the hell out of me. These Malti people in Northland,
the people of Napui, you know, some of the poorer
people of Northland, and the ewe Is has forsaken hundreds
of millions of dollars for the last thirty years. They
could have had a court of a billion dollars to
help their people and grown it into you know, so much,
(07:40):
and I just can't believe they've allowed that opportunity to
slip through their hands.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Is that because of the indecisiveness and the disagreements within
Napuoi itself, isn't it.
Speaker 6 (07:49):
It has been a bit of a challenge indeed. Yeah,
the various hupoo I think struggle to agree on things.
Yet they've got to sort it out because the benefits
for the Malti people of Northland, of Napoui or Taitokua
are just fantastic and it's something that I hope we
can get on.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Actually, who are the who are the rock stars with
an ewe? I'll get both of you on this when
it comes to actually having taken those settlements and transformed
themselves into real forces of nature. Obviously Naitahu and tiny
We are the ones that come to mind for me.
What do you reckon Richard, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Mean definitely the Ta who Taui and then in.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Open sense Nulti fatal order okay, and some of that,
Some of that is obviously because the assets and the
there or here are obviously in the city center and
and worth a lot. But actually they've built up great business,
is great partnership with us on the council and and
all sorts of big infrastructure projects they've got, you know,
the working with precinct on big developments, private developments in
(08:47):
the city center now so, and I think people forget
all that money. You know, the profits of that go
back into into the communities, into the final into into
the education and furthering the you know, the whole ewe themselves.
But it is it does, I guess, matter what point
of the cycle, you able to get access to assets
(09:09):
that were stripped away hundreds of years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
What's your take, Richard, Well, I've got on the Ironically,
so the Treaty Principle's Bill was something that got you know,
a lot of discussion, a lot of headlines. In the end,
it didn't go very far, and yet we've got lock
what is referred to the reform of the Resource Management Act,
which I got to say from a talkback point of view,
and the average punter doesn't really know what to make
(09:34):
of it. It's not something that really generates a lot
of conversation, although if you look at individual problems that
it causes, there can be lots of conversations about, you know,
the problems that has. What do you think about the
idea of the resource management reform?
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Yeah, I mean it definitely needs reform, chair the policy
and Planning Committee, and you know the it is complex
and most people don't understand it, and it does create
a lot of cost. But on the other side of
the coin, people do expect their neighbors to have a
(10:11):
lot of restrictions, or the factory down the road, or
the business that is putting leachad into the rivers. So
it is going to be interesting to see the Minister
find that balance. And I think the last government tried,
and I think this new bill or these new two
bills will be quite similar to the last government's attempt
(10:32):
at it. But yeah, I think the devil is always
in the detail, and I think most people will not
read the seven hundred and fifty current pages and won't
necessarily understand the difference between the current RMA and the
new one. But I think, yeah, there is an issue
that if we go too far not regulating which sounds
(10:52):
good from an economic point of view, you can miss
a lot of beats and then people start getting upset
in their favorite beaches X, y Z, or their neighbors
don't have the restrictions that they want, but they quite
enjoy being able to do more with their own property
or their own assets.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So it's always a catch twenty two.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
As a counselor, you hear a lot of people sending
you emails saying, oh, I couldn't do this extension without this,
I couldn't do that, and then as soon as it
flips the other way, everyone, you know, I go to
public meetings and everyone expects that counselors or locals get
a say on the latest consent across the road or
the latest apartment building, which nine times out of ten
no one gets a say on the department building across
(11:33):
the street. Now, so the RMA will kind of allow
that to happen more often than people need to understand
where the balance has to be found.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, while we're asking you guys about the biggest issue domestically,
we've got, of course, there's been a lot of big
stories internationally. I don't know. I don't really like saying
what's the biggest story being because it makes it sound
like one is more importantly. The two that stand out
to me, the issue with Israel, Gaza and Ukraine are
(12:03):
the two big issues that have the two big things
that we well, I don't know if we've seen some
resolution on any of those yet, But what do you
reckon Lockwood.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
To me, I'm bit with you.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
There's the Ukraine issue to me is horrific. You know,
I I should be careful criticizing other leaders, but President Putin,
I just do not understand the you know, where the
guys coming from. I'm just horrified by what's gone on there.
And so while Gaza was also it was also horrific.
(12:35):
I guess it was sparked by an outrageous attack by
Hamas on Israel, and whereas the Ukrainian situation was a
bit different because you know, Putin just decided to invade
and and it's it's been tragic to see what's what's
going on there. And one hopes that in trying to
(12:57):
settle me I find some peace resolution, peaceful resolution to
it that you know, the invader doesn't aim too much
in that in that resolution process.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, I mean, actually, it's interesting you said you don't understand.
I was wondering if you don't relate to Putin because
I sort of think I understand that he's just a meglomaniac.
He wants to restore the Soviet Union borders. You know
what I mean, you don't relate to it. I mean, sorry,
you don't relate to it. But do we have an
idea what makes him tech? Apart from my ear, it
was just a complete BASTI d But I hear.
Speaker 6 (13:31):
What you're saying, because I first met him in nineteen
ninety nine. He led the Russian delegation to Apek when
we were cheering Apec in ninety nine, and ituse I
was cheering the trade in missus process there and Mattin briefly,
and I never got no putin. But to me, you're right,
I mean I don't. I've got to confess I don't
(13:52):
understand how his brain works. Because while you're right, I
think you know, he's seeking to cure the grandiosity of
restoring some of the old Soviet Union borders. What I
don't understand is how a human being can be so
uncaring of the lives is destroying, not just in Ukraine,
his own people's lives, you know, his own soldiers that
(14:12):
have died in their multi thousands there on the battlefield.
And I just don't under I just cannot relate to
that kind of inhuman attitude from a leader.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
I despise the.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Blow, Yeah, well did I, But I guess that's Richard.
I mean, is a psychopath. Probably, But is there what
hope do you hold out that there there might be
some progress on this?
Speaker 4 (14:35):
For me, progress on Ukraine. I mean, it just seems
like a forever, forever issue now. I think the key
thing that the kind of NATO states or all of
us really need to take hold of is that if
the borders come down or Ukraine is permanently occupied, then
(14:56):
you have an issue with how far into Europe this
goes and whether the acceptance that anyone can just take
over anyone's borders. And I guess, although I agree with
lock with this latest kind of horrendous situation in Gaza
has was sparked by it. There's another horrendous October seven
(15:21):
terror attack, it is probably the Gaza. Israel's situation has
been easily is it the long probably the longest conflict,
maybe well in in my lifetime, you know, probably I don't.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Know, longer than your lifetime. I mean, it's been going
since Israel was created, I guess.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
So you've got this constant uprising of both sides of
the argument, the rest of the world trying to tell
everyone to play nice, and clearly no one has a
hold in it. And then you're seeing potentially we don't
know all the details of why, but you know, Australia,
this this situation is another horrendous symptom of this whole
(16:05):
conflict as well. And you just got everyone on all
sides of both Ukraine and the Gaza situations that kind
of picking sides and not really understanding the full pictures
of everything. And most people just want people to stop dying,
and civilians to stop dying.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think, I think the frustrating thing. I mean, it's
so difficult when you are not I mean to both
of you when we're not you know, we're not in
Bondi in Sydney, but we've seen what's gone on. But
the one thing I really I struggle with people who
say that I'm trying to pick my words diplomatically here,
but I struggle with people having a crack at Albanezi
(16:41):
saying that it's his fault because he recognized wanted to
recognize the state of Palestine. And I just think that
that's grossly unfair to say that. You know, if you
are resisting what Netnya and Israel have prosecuted in Palestina
over the last couple of years, that somehow you're enabling
the opposite that enabling terror. I just think that they're
(17:03):
too different ish that too. They can well they they
are different issues, aren't they. Well Lockward helped me out here.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
No, I think I think you're right, and that it's
one step too far to make that, to make that claim.
And you know it's a it's a difficult, difficult situation,
as you've both said.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
You know, it's been going on for years.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
I mean I was even involved for a while. I
met with the past the leaders of the Palestine Authority
years ago when I was Trade Minister, and it's a
step too far, I think to blame alban easy like that. However,
I think it's also simplistic just to you know, we've
seen in New Zealand, particularly the Green Party wearing their
(17:45):
shawls into Parliament or scarvet whatever it is, into Parliament
every day. I don't think that's been great. You know,
if I was speak Rod and have allowed that, I
think to allow that kind of protests inside the house
is inappropriate in a place that's a place of debate.
Parliament is big means big speak literally and where you
know pro his garb like that in there, I think
(18:07):
is most unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, look, I want to dig into it just a
little bit more in the Ukraine before we wrap up,
Before before we move on to other topics, we'll just
take a quick break. We're with Richard hills Auckland councilor
and former Speaker of the House lockwood Smith talking about
the year that will, the year almost that was. We'll
be back in just a moment. Twenty seven past three
news talks. He'd be.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Oh, mister Kringle soon gone to jingle the bells out
a tingle, all your travels away.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Everybody's waiting while the man with the bag cause Christmas
is coming again.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
He's gone.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That's welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is Politics Central.
We're having had wrapping the year with Richard hills Auckland
councilor and former Speaker of the House and politician lockwood Smith.
Just quickly, guys, to wrap up. Are you hopeful with somebody?
Some have seen that press conference with Putin on Ukraine
and his response to questions from the BBC Steve Rosenberg
(19:16):
that you know that he says the plans to attack
Europe and nonsense, and some have said, is that potentially
a novel Olive Branch. I mean, just what do you
make of it? Lockwood? Yep? How we just turn you
on their lock What have you got there? Now? On Lockwood?
Have we got you? Uh? Let's let's see Richard's there?
Speaker 5 (19:37):
You there?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Richard?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I'm still here.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Okay, I think we've lost what do you reckon? Richard?
We've just lost Lockwood for a second.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I haven't seen the I haven't seen the press conference,
but I don't think there's any trust there with Putin.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
That probably fair enough. Okay, we'll stick with you until
we were just check that we've got lock I think
we've got You've got you there, Lockwood?
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Can you hear good?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Okay? Yeah, sorry, just had a little bit technical. Hey,
let's go with Let's get to the domestic things. Who
is your Lockwldsmith? Who's your politician of the year.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
So it's a difficult thing to pick.
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Let me just run through a couple of I think,
you know, the Prime minist think has done a great
job in keeping the coalition effective. That's a challenging job
and he's done a great job. I think you know,
in right, MD. Winston Peters has done a hell of
a good job as our Foreign Minister, I think he's
done a good job, and David Seymour, the act Leader,
I think it's not an excellent job with especially the
regultary standard spell. I can't emphasize that too much because
(20:35):
of research I've been involved in globally around how important
that is. But if I came to mind, my pick
for the the Government Politician of the Year is between
two people. I think Chris Bishop with his IR and
a reform. As I said before, that's critically important for
New Zealand. But the person I've chosen is actually Erica
Stanford because educating yours education minists from as six years,
(20:56):
and education affects the future of every young New Zealander,
and I think the reforms she's bringing in are so
desperately needed. And I just hope in reforming the NCA,
she doesn't go back to the old drafting gate that
school Certificate was back pre the National Qualifications Framework and NCA,
(21:17):
because all that did was just, you know, just the
results of exams until fifty percent passing, fifty percent failed.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
We don't want that.
Speaker 6 (21:27):
But the whole reform that I started in the early
nineties is all about setting the standards we expect at
that level of schooling, and instead of setting the standards
and basing exams on those standards, in passing those that
meet those standards, things got broken down to these crazy
achievement standards, these little bits of knowledge or little bits
of learning, and it destroyed the whole vision.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
I think.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
I think Eric is reform work around the basics and
education again emphasizing knowledge. This matters so much because you
can't think without a knowledge framework. You can't think you
know effectively without literacy, and you can't think analytically without humorously.
And so I'm a big supporter of the work she's doing.
That's why she's my politicians.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Actually we'll stick with the government politician of the year
because I'll get from Lockwood. You have to think about
your opposition politician of the year while I go to Richard.
Who's your politician on the government side being Richard?
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Yeah, probably it's a toss up between Chris Bishop and
Chris pink both. You know, not that I agree with
everything they're doing, but both engage with us all can
Council really positively. But also they seem to be across
their work program should a huge work program, but also
(22:42):
just get on with it. Yes, Chris Bishop can be
you know, buy into some of the nonsense that goes
on in Parliament. But both seem to be kind of
heads down. A huge amount of work going on, and
you know, I don't agree with all the direction, but
I think they are really putting forward.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
You know that changing things done.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, and I think that's.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
All you want from you know, you might not agree
with all of it, but they are clear with their
convictions and are doing it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah. Okay, let's go to the opposition at the opposition benches,
who's your politician of their Lowkwood?
Speaker 6 (23:16):
Well, just before I do that to M, I agree
with Richard actually that I think Chris Pink has done
a good job. You know, I think that was an
interesting choice of It's a bit of.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
An unsigned hero, isn't he.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
You know I've always picked him as having real ability,
but long before even got in de Parliament, I thought
that great for the future.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Look in the opposition.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
The one I've come down on the side I've come
down on him is actually Barbara Edmonds. I think you know,
if you look at Labour's background and the whole issue
around taxation and spending is a challenging issue within labor,
within the Labor Party, if you like. And Barbara's been
able to find a sort of a way to hold
(23:56):
the party together in a reasonably pretty coherent sort of
a way around economic issues. And so I think it's
been quite in a eatment from her. I think she's
a very capable person. And so my opposition MP is
Barbara Edmonds Good.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I think that's a pretty good choice. What do you
reckon Richard position star?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I was going to say Barbara too, but maybe I
choose someone else.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
It just may be less known. Adana Williams, I think
is a rising star. She's you know, I might not
have seen all her speeches, but she seems to be
you know, over the topics. She connects well through social
media at events. She's just a really positive person. And
I think people if they're going to change their vote
or move to a different party, or change the government
(24:41):
next year, they want to see people that are giving
some hope, giving some positivity. I think there's too much
negativity around politics, and I think she kind of strikes
the right balance of keeping the government honest but also
being like here's what we'll do, and here's some great stuff.
And come down to my local x y Z for
this event. And that's what a good local electric politician
should be doing too.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
It's funny, you know, Lockwood touched on Christopher Luxe and
and it's it's sort of like it's a mention in
dispatches because from people as ministers and the way he
runs cabinet, it seems that he's got a really good
team of ministers and he's good at sitting out expectations
and setting targets and all that. But it just he's
not ticking the box when it comes to that sort
of retail politician appeal, is he Lockwood?
Speaker 6 (25:25):
Yeah, you're right, Sam, But to me, i'd far sooner
have as prime minister someone who can do those things,
get a cabinet working effectively, get good decisions being made,
a cohesive approach.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
And progress.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
You know, he sets targets and wants to see progress,
and I support that. You know, we've had prime ministers
who are good on the playing the politics if you like,
But I'd faster have someone not so good on that,
but really good on having a cabinet working effectively.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, what about I do want to ask you one
more thing before we wrap it. Up, guys, and for me,
I think probably off the top of my head political
train wreck of the year would probably be And I
don't think this necessarily counts for anything when it comes
to the election, but currently I think to Party Mari
(26:15):
have been the train wreck of the year. But it
doesn't mean that I think they're going to be a
train wreck next year, because I think they've still got
a constituency they could still perform really well. But watch
the space Richard.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, I did want to back you up on Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
I think if you look at Key English Idearn, I
just don't get much from Prime Minister likes and maybe
he is a behind the scenes kind of guy, but
if you look at someone who speaks to New Zealanders
or invigorates or I wouldn't know his a view on
sort of where we're going. So he will have to
show that in the election campaign next year of what
(26:51):
he actually believes New Zealander is about and what we
you know, where we're heading. It does feel a bit messy.
But to Pati Marti, oh my goodness. They went from
their most successful election and then also a phenomenal election
and Hamaki Makoda the by election after the sad loss
of one of the MPs, and then they just completely
blew up. I couldn't even tell you what was going
(27:12):
on right now. And I'm assuming a couple of their
you know, Hannah Raftery might p Clark, will be re
elected people like that in their seats because Marty voter
is very strategic around the electric versus their party vote.
But it's so messy and how they have not been
able to capitalize on what my opinion is one of
the most kind of anti Maori governments in my lifetime.
(27:36):
You know, they haven't been able to capitalize and come
together on that. It's just a massive I can't understand
what has happened there. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yes, well, I mean, of course a lot of but
there are a lot of Mario would say that to
party Mari is not necessarily the party for them either,
but that's probably the problem they've got. But what do
you reckon in terms of the train wreck of the year, Lockwood?
Speaker 6 (27:55):
I think you're right, it's got to be ted party, Maury,
And to me it's so sad. You know, I don't
know the current leadership and party Maori, but I did
know very well, the founders of the party and named
Tadianaturia and sub Peter Sharples, some of the finest people
you'd ever meet. And and I'm just sad that their
great heritage is uh is almost been trampled over by
(28:19):
the current leadership and tipart them up Ti party Maori,
the you know, the lack of respect for Parliament itself.
You know, when when we visit them Aria, we try to,
you know, to comply with the protocols and the kowa
pikung and color of that of that meeting place, if
you like. Yet they show no respect for the protocols
of of the of our House of Representatives, of which
(28:41):
they are apart. And and I think you were right
that so many Maori want the same as everyone else wants.
They want, you know, they want to have a chance
to get on in life. They want the very best
for their.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I think Lockwoods hit as a mute button again. Actually,
so I'm just going to have one more question of
you guys, and we'll see if we can get Lockwood
back as well. I'm not sure what's happened there, but Richard,
opinion polls, the late latest ones have been all over
the place. Do you do you follow the opinion polls much?
I just look at them and go on margin evera
(29:17):
move on, what do you reckon the Can you hear
me now? Yes, yes, I can hear you.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Cool. Yeah, it sounded like you cut off the poles
and yeah, the last two were pretty different. But if
you do.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
I was looking in research for talking to you today.
The poll of polls is quite surprising if you think
we were two years ago, you know, having Labor sort
of solidly averagely above National, New Zealand Person Act seem
to be swapping places every pole, and the Greens, with
all the troubles they had last year a little bit
(29:50):
this year they seem to have stuck fairly close to
what they got in the last election.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
So it is a bit strange.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
But I think the big the big issue will be
for those big parties is that you know, National dropping
below Labor, and Labor in my opinion, not doing a
huge amount apart from maybe not getting in the way
of the government stumbles. They haven't shown a huge amount
of you know, proactive policy releases or anything sort of amazing,
(30:16):
but they seem to be ahead of National and most polls,
so it will be interesting to see next year.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
How much it all bounces around and.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Quite a lot. I would say, have we got you
there still Lockwood? No, we've we've lost Lockwood. Look, we
might actually have to wrap it up there. But hey, Richard,
I really appreciate your time this afternoon. Thanks for your
take on things.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And no worries.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Merry Christmas, yeah, oh, Merry Christmas. Yeah? Done all you
Christmas shopping?
Speaker 4 (30:42):
No, not yet, finish, finish work and get some done
at the late night malls.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
I think good stuff. And Sir Lockwood Smith, of course,
somebody's told me off not referring to Lockwoo as Sir
Lockwood every time I check to him. But I think
we've lost Sir Lockwood, so I do appreciate his time
this afternoon as well. I want to throw it over
to you on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, just
your political moment of the year, but also the one
A is an losers who were the stars for you
(31:06):
and the ones who you sort of think, well, you know,
maybe not so not so flash. Give us a call
on that. Eight hundred eighty ten to eighty is the number,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty, So yes, your standout politician
for the year as well as you if you wont year,
if you had predictions for next year as well. Because
of the last show for Politics Central, we've got some
time to take your cause. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
(31:30):
We'll be back in just a moment. It's seventeen minutes
to four news talks. He'd be these news talks. He'd
be taking your cause on the year. That will almost was, well,
I mean almost was. It's not quite over yet, so anyway, Dallas, Hello, Oh.
Speaker 7 (31:50):
Hi, Jimmy Nery Christmas.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Compliments of the season, Compliments of the season.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
Yeah, how My most influential politicians have to be Seymour
though I don't like him, of course, but he is
just everywhere. He's always available twenty four to seven for
a quote. It's almost at times like he's the leader
(32:17):
of the coalition. He's been so outfront in terms of
the media driving that, and he's and he comes up
with sort of passy quotes too. He's quite good on
that sort of score. So i'd have to say David
Steam was my posticially year.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
That is an unexpected one from you, Dallas. Who's the worst?
Speaker 7 (32:43):
No, I'm not talking about his worst of death. I mean,
I just can't stand David Seaman. But I'm talking about influence.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Well, what I mean is who has well, who has? Okay,
I won't I won't push you on that one. What
about where do you go with Winston his partner in crime?
If you think of the two deputy prime ministers.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
Winston, I'm really worried about him his health. I just
don't think he's I think he's struggling with the breathing. Okay,
So I'm worried about him. Actually that's okay.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Oh well, we won't spect lad on that. But I
mean in terms of the I mean, there's been an
interesting time, hasn't it with those two sort of sidekicks
for lux And I'm sure they'd hate to be called
side kicks anyway.
Speaker 7 (33:29):
When he's the same age as Trump, I think, isn't
he's eighty or well?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
One of them's got his faculties. One in that name
is Winston Peters to the other one down.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
There when he's got his faculty, that's for sure. So
I think Erica Stanson, yeah, I think she's doing well. Education, Yeah,
who was yeah? Bishop here was RMA reforms.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, it's got no good interesting take on Seamo and
Merry Christmas. Mate, We'll talk soon. Cheers, Okay, bye bye, Maana.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I'm all right, thanks, Hayden, I'm.
Speaker 8 (34:08):
Good, good. Yeah, I'm just listening to your program about
the politics that's going on at the moment. In summarizing
twenty twenty five, well.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
We barely scratch the surface, really, but I mean, what
stands out for you.
Speaker 8 (34:25):
I think, particularly twenty twenty four twenty twenty five is
the racism that this current government is quite particular and strategic.
I've always point kicked, pointing and marginalizing our indigenous people
here in what stands.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Out for you? In what way? What's the next for that?
Speaker 8 (34:48):
So I heard Sir Lockwood talk about Erica stupid I
call her Eric Stanford and the new policies in regards
to education when we've had the worst unions, the teachers
unions in the secondary school unions been striking all year
and they've only just put something maybe that we've kind
(35:10):
of agreed to. And I see that Indy I haven't
agreed to the primary sectors. And that's regards to her
taking out reference to the education Boards of Trustees not
being able to do their own thing with the treaty
and manifa with a kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
And I think that they've she said, still said that
that schools can do there, they can do it. They
they've just they've just taken it out of it generally. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (35:36):
Yeah, I quite clearly told her quite six hundred and
fifty schools have have sent letters from the boards of
trustee to tell her quite clearly your rule that you've
just you know, swapped over with the current kick cabinet's
actually incorrect and there's not going to be an education
schools because at least with these boards of trustees, they're
(35:57):
clear that New Zealanders don't want to go down that
past racial kind of education policy.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I disagree with you. I just think that the relationship
between Mary and Crown has nothing to do with school boards.
And I don't think we have a problem with within
our educational institutions with that stuff, but we could. That
would be a whole hour of talkback. But thanks for
your cornmore and I appreciate it. Peter.
Speaker 9 (36:18):
Hello, Well, well, the third politician is the High Court
judge that gave the person expelled from the Murray Party
the lifeline until the hearing.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Next year.
Speaker 9 (36:32):
Then the worst politician. I think that it's a photo finish.
I don't think I've been particularly impressed across the line
government or opposition. But if you look at the numbers,
I can't remember the name of that Maray party, not
the co leader's, not the ones that have been expelled,
but the one who's gone up on the polls, the
(36:53):
young Murray lady who placed the Foreign affairs.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Hana my Peri. God, I always get the name muddled up.
I get which way it goes around.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
But her polling is suggested that you know, she will
replace the Code leaders, so she really hasn't done anything
wrong as far as the polling is concerned. Yeah, but
you know, I think it's been a highly disciplined point
in time for after the election up until now really,
(37:23):
and you look at deficits to come and you know,
I'm just not impressed with its sort of borrowing hope
for the future. And it doesn't matter whether you're a government,
no difference.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, Well, what is a tough one, isn't it. I
think get into you because you don't want to suddenly
stop spending just to balance the box, because we've got
so much stuff we need to invest in which that's
a complex business thing and government have to say. I'm
not sure I want to do the job. But anyway,
we'll be back in just a moment of seven and
a half minutes to four new stalks. He'd be.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes, a.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Little bit of a chart that wraps up Politics Central
for the for the year. Hey, thank you by the
way to all our political junkies out there who've corresponded
with the show and called up and texted and everything. Yeah,
I really appreciate it. So we're looking forward to the
next couple of hours. At five for Smart Money, we're
talking with Janet Zukara about trust. It's very popular hours.
(38:31):
If you've got some questions for Janet, then jump on it.
And but coming up next for the Health Hub, we're
talking food as we love to do it this Christmas
time of the year with Allison Gofton talking about how
do you how do you actually feed lots of people
without losing your mind and also balancing and indulging versus
you well being. I don't know, does it just go
(38:51):
out the window for Christmas? I mean anyway, we'll be
talking all things food with Alison Gofton and taking your
calls next News Talks dB.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
For more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to News
Talk sed B weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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