June 29, 2025 • 41 mins
New employment data reveals work-life balance is the top reason people leave their job.
Additionally, more people are working past the retirement age.
Are these new attitudes, or has it been growing? What's the workforce like today?
Tim Beveridge speaks to Employment Relations Expert Max Whitehead...
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at b.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
R S time sample of his band Simple Balls, Wow, Western.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Class Now.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Elmo sell Man s Man a complicated as.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Well.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I let that roll a little bit longer, sell us,
Jim Jimmy Barnes. I mean, you can't, you know. I think,
actually we hear this every time we hear Max Max Whitehead.
It is good. I was Max Bradford again because you
kept on reminding me that I used to get your
name wrong, because he was the local mpued.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Earlier on Folks and he's just copied it.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Excellent, Yeah, excellent. We're with Max Whitehead, of course, the
familiar tones of the employment law specialist. And look, just
before we get into it, one your Cause, of course,
that's the name of the game of eight hundred and
eight ten eighty text nineteen nine two. Before I do,
I'll just mention if you did miss the Health Hub
fantastic conversation with h at Kent John's about motivation and
just you know, a lot of the time people listen
(01:37):
to shows about exercise and you sort of think, O, well,
I'm not doing that yet. I'm not doing that yet.
And it was an interesting discussion around just how do
you get going without giving yourself a goal that's going
to intimidate you into stopping In a.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Couple of weeks, I couldn't wait because I did nine
thousand steps this today.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You just did that sitting in your share twitching, didn't
you just now?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
It's a working class man.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Anyway, and if you wanted to hear that and the
politics how we had a chat about the with Ruth
Money about the new sentencing guidelines that have come in.
We're not the guidelines and new rules around it, and
that was an interesting chat as well. And we had
also spoke with PWC's policy tax leader, Sandy Law about
about the cost of the cost of superannuation and how
(02:19):
we're going to pay for it eventually and something's going
to have to change with our tax settings or something.
And so you can listen to everyone's calls on that.
Go to the weekend look for the Weekend Collective on
iHeartRadio or news talk, said b right, Max, So survey
results have shown that New Zealand workers this year value
noways cynical about these things. But I'll finish what I'm
(02:40):
reading Value work life balance ahead of salary or benefits,
career development, and even job security. So that is a
big one. They value work life balance ahead of salary
or benefits, career development, and even job security. Additionally, the
same reports show employees are likely to switch jobs for
(03:02):
better work life balance than better pay. I'm going to
qualify that in a second with my own rancid opinion.
But so what a nine to five is actually want
from their employers? What keeps them satisfied and motivated the
point that they're working past sixty five as well? Max,
I reckon just a hot take that if you are
earning a truckload of money, then you might be I
(03:23):
don't care about money. I just care about life balance.
But if you're struggling to pay the bills, I don't
know whether those people are. What do you reckon?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Well, I think there's a new philosophy in town, and
I actually do think there's a lot of people do
believe that. But it also if they're filling out a survey,
they don't know who's watching it. So what can I do?
I'll make get people impressed with me. Money's not important
to me, and that's the vogue. The people aren't even
being honest I'm out of COVID's cod People didn't want
(03:53):
to go back to work. They did not want to
go back and working from home. Everyone one wants to
work from home right now.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Well, is this one of the big issues that you're
having to battle all the time. Absolutely, because I've got
to say, look and we've all I'm not shifting the conversation,
but it's a sideline. It's one of the angles. Is
the whole working from home. I like coming into work.
I like separating. There were working from home up to
(04:20):
a point, and I've broadcast from home. We have these
bits of equipment they can see around. We connected into
the Wi Fi and everything not into the WiFi. We're
hard wired and you can actually do the show from home.
If I was desperate, if work we're desperate. I like
coming to work. I hate the fact that workplace, that
the lounge orman, you know, at the spare room, became
(04:42):
the office. And yet you're saying that people want to
do more of it.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
They certainly do, and they do. They enjoy it because
I think it's a little bit about Oh, I can
see my kids more often, I can do a lot
more in my time, I can spread myself around a
little bit, get the meal prepared while I'm supposed to
be working. Note a few other things like this. And
I've got to say, in some areas the product but
he does increase. In some areas people take advantage that
(05:09):
they can't help themselves. They'd rather go off and play
other than go to work.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
How difficult is it for people to be monitored by
their managers and bosses?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Very difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I mean, I guess if they're getting done the work
you're setting them, then fine. In fact, I wonder if
you are working from home, you know, not being supervised,
you think, well, if i can bang this out really quickly,
then I'm off to the beach yep. And a manager,
if they knew that'd be like, oh, you've finished that already,
I might give you something else.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Oh of course. Then AI I can do things in
micro seconds where they used to take at least an
hour or so to do it. That happens, I can
tell you now that does happen. I mean in the
law fraternity, I mean they create documentation and charge hours
and hours of work for it, but AI will just
put it out within seconds.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It is actually an amazing tool. I wonder, actually it's
I don't imagine it's real, resulting in cheaper legal bills
for people the case. Here are the facts, here's the
interview together, a statement of claim, and then they just
go and I mean it must be a massive time saving.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Well, I think of your staff. I mentioned writing a
news item. You know that would be very much easier
using AI than it would be.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, that's quite an art. I'm going to say that's
an art just because I'm sure that I have never
done it. Pretty strict rules about not going near that
stuff to be so you just on that one. Yeah,
it's just hush your pretty little mouth. But actually, how
how realistic is it? And is that the biggest thing
is at the moment, a lot if.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
People just do not prefer to work from home, A
lot of employers now are insisting. So I'm asked constantly
what's the law? Say, what what do I have to do?
We have to go with the boss and go back
to the workplace. Well, can I work from home?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, to be honest, I would have thought that the
law would be in the boss's favor, wouldn't it. I mean,
if you're providing someone with a job, you've got a
workplace you want them to work for work at I
would have thought that it's only in the negotiation with
an employee that would lead to them having a bit
more leeway.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Well, what it is, it's pre COVID. Anyone started before
pre COVID. The employment agreement must stipulate where the workplace is.
So all those documents before that were like workplaces some
and so after COVID, employers were struggling to get the
workers and so what they said, Oh there's an option here,
you could work from home, and they've drafted that into
(07:28):
employment agreements. So that document will dictate what they can do,
what the employer can enforce.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay, And what happens I mean is that the standard
thing these days is that are people negotiating a certain
amount of time that they work from home.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yep, there's a lot of preference to do that. Some
people won't drive the work in the workplace, like yourself.
I'd say, it's almost a generational thing. The younger ones.
Let me go home and be near my children. Let
me go home and be near my you know, the
house gives me comfort, and I don't have to get
dressed up as much, and you know, the makeup, I
don't have to put on that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, I mean for me as well. I mean broadcasting
it's a people business and I like to be around people.
And I think, you know, just trying to walk into
your into your office sort of thing and sit down
and feel connected in a way that you wouldn't feel
as we've got a newsroom of reporters. You can catch
up with what the latest is. There's a certain I
really yeah, I think that that's well.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Let me tell you I worn't from them for twenty years,
and I miss it. I missed the workplace for the
exact reason you're talking about. I saw you just walk
across the across the but you chatted to three people
on the wall.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I'm a pain in the butt.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
No, I think it's and you had them laughing. And
I'm sitting back as a spectator watching this thing, and
that's heartwarming.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
That's quite funny. I wonder if Elliot Smith sees me
coming and goes areas it care comes to trouble, I
do notice it. No, we had a brilliant and had
a brilliant idea for a podcast for Elliott actually, but
I won't share that because it's yeah, a good idea
so we want to hear from you. You though, when
it comes to work, what is you know, what are
(09:02):
the things you value most about work? And is it
a work life balance ahead of anything else Where does
salary come in? Because look, let's be honest, we turn
up to work to earn money to pay for the
things we want, whether it be to support our kids,
to put good food on the table. God, that's such
a cliche, isn't it, But that's for many people. That's
(09:23):
the basics. Pay the rent, feed your family, feed yourselves.
Maybe if you're lucky, be able to afford to do
something nice, if you've got a break and go somewhere
on holiday. So salary, I'm still suspicious that salary isn't
slightly more and just in terms of the rhetoric of
people's responses, slightly more important. In other words, if your
(09:46):
boss said to you, I'll tell you what we'll pay you.
You know, look, if you're prepared to fore go one
hundred bucks a week, we'll let you work from home
three days a week. But otherwise we'll pay you a
hundred dollars more a week to come and to work.
In fact, actually there'll be a lot of people going
all the parking, the transport. OK, I'll work from home.
But you know what I mean? What is king for
you in the workplace? Is it salary? Is other benefits?
(10:06):
Is it the fact that I don't know, your employer
gives you access to cheaper healthcare, but they see that's money.
Is it the fact that you've got career development or
even job security?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Isn't a theory since COVID. COVID actually supplied made sure
salary was paid to people even irrespective they went to work. Also,
it's a parachute for them. There's a comfort zone. There's
also today you can get the unemployment benefit. Whereas you
talk to older people, you were the breadwinner, you had
to go to work, otherwise your family suffered immensely.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, so we would love to know from you if
you're listening. By the way, if you've got any questions
for Max, he's an employment law specialist and often people
call up because they're having a particular problem they need
to resolve and how do they get started with the
resolving the problem they've got. You're welcome to give us
a call on that as well. On eight hundred and
eighty ten to eighty. But on the broader topic. We're
talking about what is the most important thing about work
(11:01):
for you and what's the work life balance that is
important to you? A head of salary, benefits, career development,
and even job security. Give us a call eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. I mean, are you like me? Do
you actually like to go to work because you like
to be with the people who you work with. You
enjoy working with them, you enjoy the environment. Is that
(11:21):
an important part of it? Or you know what if
you could do it all from home, wouldn't that be great?
Eight hundred eighty ten eighties the number text nine two
nine two? How so do you work? Where do you
work from?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Now?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Max?
Speaker 4 (11:33):
From home?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (11:35):
So and look, I was going to end something else
here for older people already getting a pension for example,
but they want to work and why it gives them
purpose in life. It gives them a standing in the
community and they can hold their head up with some pride.
I'm actually contributing to our society. Yeah, I'm not just taking.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Actually, that is the extra question to it as well,
because if you are working past sixty five, is so
so many more people are doing these days? What is
it about your job that makes it doable simply, Look,
I need the money and I just have to have
to work. Or is it because you've created the conditions
at work that work for you? And look, why would
you stop because you're enjoying it? Eighty ten eighty text
(12:16):
nine to nine two and you can email. I don't
worry about the email. I'm not going to get round
of the email. I'll be heading out of the office
on holiday in about forty.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Minutes'll be back.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
No, I'm not, I'm working hard. It's it's eighteen minutes
past five. News talk said by that's right, we're back
(12:48):
weekend collective. It's a smart money My guess is Max
white Head, employment law specialist. We're asking what's the most
important thing and you work deal? Basically is it about
the money or is it about the work work life balance?
Because apparently, according to survey results, workers are saying it's
work life balance ahead of salary, benefits, career development or
even job secure, which sounds like I don't know. I
(13:09):
want to be skeptical about it, but you've got to
go with these things. Let's take your cause.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
John, Hello, Hey John? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Okoday, guys, how are you? Yeah, I'm Look, I'm an
older worker. I'm I'm, you know, sixty six and continuing
to work. I spent I came back from the UK
in late twenty twenty two, was up there during COVID
and everything else. You know, I think everybody's situation is different.
But working from home, yeah, I guess works in some industries,
(13:38):
but I think I think by large, you know, I
think it's great to be back in the office. I
spent a lot of years on the road and now
I'm I'm still in the sales environment, but I'm going
to one place every day, and to me, it's about
the community of going there. Staff there are fantastic. But
the other side of it, for me, at the age
i'm at the thing I cherish the most. I can
go into work in the morning, do a really good job,
(14:01):
and mean when I leave at five, I leave it
all behind. That's really important to me. Whereas other roles
I've had passed, you know, you sort of you know,
do what you do for a couple of hours. You've
got the lamptop out happen away doing stuff. So so yeah,
that's the difference to me, you know. But I'm going
to do another two or three years still enjoying working.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, that's yeah, that's an interesting point. What are you
what's your reflections on that, Max, Because you don't tell
you if you if you're working from home, it's you
can't really leave you how the challenge is to leave
you work.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I'm thinking slow, I'm thinking John's valuing it and tell
me John if this is correct, because you've your experience,
you've been around. But also it's it provides you with
dignity and a social outlet as well. And it sounds
like working with your colleagues is something that you do enjoy,
even though you might not spend hours talking about stuff
and just you know, social things. It's just been near
(14:52):
someone else and actually being able to just have a
chat when you feel like it about something else.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Yeah, that's that's that's right. That my situation that that's
certainly right. And maybe maybe because I didn't spend a
lot of time on the road, you know, for for
quite a lot of years. You know, being being in
the one place is quite important.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
To me now.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
But so I enjoy all the that. But but again
I'm not working necessarily because I have to, but I
still I still enjoy the challenge going to work, and
you know, I've got plenty of other communities outside of work,
but it works worth something. I'm still enjoying.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
So John, you and your work when your work life,
I can imagine you're driving for for what eighty percent
of the time? Was seventy percent of the time of
ninety twenty percent with people? Would that be right?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:35):
Probably seventy Probably, you're right, it's probably seventy thirty, you know.
And that's a lot of that's a lot of dead time,
even though you've got to go and see customers. It's
a lot of dead time on your backside, you know.
And it's and it's and it's yeah, you know, I've
traveled a lot, you know, I stay at hotels called
aeroplanes here there, and people think that it's.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
A lonely light. It's a lonely Yeah, yeah, good role.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Thanks John. Cheers mate. There lots of ticks on this
before you go to Catherine, is it. I don't know
what this one is. Somebody says, if you fall over
at work at home during work hours, is that classed
as a workplace accident? Trivial sort of weird question, but
then again not really.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Yeah, and it's a hard one because really you have
to associate it with the work that you're actually doing
at home. So if you're sitting and talking on the phone,
for example, or you're sitting at your desk and working, well,
then tripping while you're walking is probably not.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Put Well, if you're going to get your cup of
coffee for Smoko time and you stand up and you
fall over and you wack your head on the desk,
and I know that sounds like a workplace.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
I know you're right him, because if you did at
the workplace, then it would be deemed to be work
related accident. Yeah, So it depends on how.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
If you've gone up to change your child's nappies and
you know, something happens or something and you slip over,
then probably not a workplace action.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Or your previous guest they're not taking a jog at
the time, maybe that wouldn't work either. So it just
just depends on what you're doing, I think, and what's
it related to.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
We can probably imagine quite a few scenarios and interesting
scenarios we can throw max for different questions. It actually
I got yes, Now I'm going to send some myself
on that one. Let's go to Catherine.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
Hello, Hello Catherine, Hi, how are you deceiving?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Very good?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I'm ringing in because on talk about radio this week,
I've been hearing about how the superannuation government to granuation
is actually a benefit. And I am seventy one years
old this year, and I am still working three days
a week and tens worked on seventy five. I've paid
(17:33):
my taxes through the years.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
I work three jobs.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
When I was younger, sought I could buy my first time,
and at this point in time, I'm paying secondary employment tax,
actually high secondary I employment tax on my second job,
so I kin't it's my job other than my attention.
So I sort of get a bit resentful about people
calling us greedy and everything else. And even those people
(17:56):
on high are much higher wages than I given been
on They've been paying higher taxes normally, so their contribution
to the pension system has been greater than most. But
I just I just sort of have been thinking all
week about some of the discussions on it. Football tonight,
I'm just going to ring and say, not all of
(18:17):
it are out there working because we're greedy.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
No, you're doing it because you need it.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
You can't live on the pinch.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
No, you can't.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
And I do have savings and I'm mortgage free, but
I work in a job that doesn't have all the
KPIs budget mine budget that I used to have, and
I work with amazing people in a family firm.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Point, Catherine, how would you feel if if there was
three people lined up who had children at home and
they needed a job desperately and were skilled as equally
as good as you? I woul dare say, you're still
working at seventy one. You've got some a lot of
wisdom and knowledge of your job.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
But oh well yes, yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 6 (19:03):
Well I feel I mean, they're.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
More deserving than you. That's probably the better question.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Well, I don't think so, because I think I've paid
my juris over the years to be able to do
what I'm doing. And I know that it's a selfish
boomer thought, but you know, I've done my swimming to
make money to.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Be wow, I don't think it's a selfish thought. Sorry, Catherine, No, no, no,
but look everyone Otherwise we end up arguing that anyone
who charges more than the sort of basic subsistence for
their time has been greedy. We're aspirational.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
You were.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
I'm on a very very I'm not on a huge
hollly rate at all. I'm in a retail rate, but
I work with people of different ages from seventeen to
sixty and we have fair best customers that are regulars
that come in and build a relationship with And I
have friends who on the dimension trip dementia trip. Now,
(20:03):
I just want to keep my brain and my body
effective as I possibly can and maintain the standard of living.
That one is true, and by the time I'm simplified,
probably I might actually need to work.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, well, look, I think you make what a decisions
you want and the idea that we want to accuse people.
Thank you for your caller beings.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
So that was great.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I mean, I mean, you can always throw the accusation
of selfish, it's one of us. I mean there are
times when, of course in life, when you can probably
can accuse someone of being selfish where they're not considering
the needs of others. But when you're simply just doing
your best to keep living a good active life and
paying for things you want to do, that's not selfish.
That's living life.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Yeah, well, I do actually think your contribution to society
Catherine's obviously made a huge contribution, and also she's a
very comfortable position. She's got savings, she's got things. But
those other people who are struggling and trying to get
a home even you know, get a house for themselves,
and she's way ahead of those. And I'm just wondering,
you know, even looking at myself, was at the times
(21:03):
she just step aside and let someone have a go.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
No, no, no, that's bollocks. No, But I mean, I'm
just using colorful descriptions all.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
The announcers that want to come in and take your job.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Oh good goodness, me gosh, I'm further down the age scale.
Don't worry. There's a few probably older than me hopefully,
But no, I mean, I just think that there's I
think life is expensive. You look at the cost of living,
and I think even just now, I'm noticing the increase
and things like rates kicking in and you're seeing what
the rates, even Hamilton were they go another fifteen percent
rate rise and different inflationary measures that are kicking in.
(21:39):
And if anyone thinks that you can get by on
the peace superannuation, you mean, that's that's the thing. What's
the number of people who are having to work past
the age of sixty five. And then other people surveyed.
Was it forty percent at least or more? I can't
remember the number, but there was a lot of people.
In fact, it was almost looked like it was a
luxury to be giving up at sixty five.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Oh and I talked to a friend in the week.
He's going off to live in a caravan up north,
very remote spot. Why because he can't he's lost, he's
lost his life savings.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
I know, it's awful and he's just going up there
to chill, but he's got no money, bloody, and to
live on the pension. That's the only way you can
see you can survive.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
That's pretty tough.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
That's rent, no limited rent. So in a caravan he's going,
and he's looking forward to it. I must admit.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, Well, I hope it works out from God. And
that's the thing I think. You know, people, when we
end up with these conversations, everyone assumes that maybe they
assume older people have got a job and work for
forty fifty years and they should be fine. But people
have ups and downs and all sorts of things. They
have a crack at different businesses. Maybe they buy a
house at the wrong time and they struggle to meet
the mortgage payments. I wonder how many people live the
(22:47):
conventional life. Well, you get a qualification or an early job,
invest in a business or your own time, and you
just work in that business, maybe a career change or two,
and then you retire happy and then hopefully don't live
too long and cost the health system so much.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Discriminating, isn't it, Because in a way, because if you've
got so much experience and done well in life. I mean,
there's a law passing soon that anyone earning over one
hundred and eighty thousand dollars is not allowed to go
and use the law to take a personal grievance.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Actually, yes, let's dig into that, by the way, because
I don't quite understand why. What The justification for that
law is.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
No why, And I just think it's discriminating against someone
who's been successful, okay, which I find very strange for
this government.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
It does sound quickly. I'm surprised I didn't pick up
on that to discuss that with you today. Somebody is
that there's some interesting questions coming on the text. One
is I'm almost wondering if this is a mischievous text,
because it's almost I can't believe it could be real,
let alone legal. Hi, Max, my employer has decided to
(23:49):
give women fifteen days sick leave per annum and leave
men at ten days.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Is that legation that's not legal?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I mean, who's doing that?
Speaker 4 (24:01):
I would agree it doesn't sound kosher. But if that's happening,
that individual could take an action against his employer for
breach of the Human Rights Act.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Is it possible that there's something missing in that fact
that they say if you need extra leave for maternity leave.
They've granted them something, and there's something missing. I mean,
is there would there be an excuse to say, if
you are having a baby, we will give you extra
maternity leave for whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
I remember very successful man once said publicly, No, he
wasn't public He thought he was quiet. They hid the
camera and actually he didn't realize he was still being anyway.
What he says is that women are less productive than
men because of their once a month periods.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Oh well that wasn't a smart thing.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
No, But I'm wondering is this implying the same I
don't know, I.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Do not know. No, I don't think so. It just
looks like a parandum thing fifteen hours. Well, anyway, okay.
Another one says, my wife took a ten thousand dollars
a year pay cut to work nine days in every fortnight.
So I guess I'm assuming she was on a hund thousands.
She went down to ninety thousand and just said I'll
(25:07):
do that because only.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
And there's stories of stories that there is a lot
out there people take a pay company and rather and
actually ask for a demotion, rather than actually have the
stress of a high level job.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Another person say, life balance.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Another person thinks that the perhaps the survey was targeting
eighteen to thirty five year olds different views on work.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Yeah, it's very true.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
You were were a bit suspicious about that. Yeah, yah,
I'll love to go down and look at that survey.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Anyway, suspicious that they were just thinking, who's going to
read this, I'll better make sure the boss is happy
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I would like to think it was maybe a
little bit more profit than that. Anyway, of course, it's
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number. Text nine
two nine two. By the way, we have canvas to
fair bit of information and a few angles of conversation.
So just to bring it back to what we're talking about,
is what is the primary thing you want to achieve
(25:58):
with your work life, with your with your employment? Is
it about work life balance? And is that more important
than salary of benefits? Let's look at it this way.
You're going in to negotiate to do a job, what's
the first question on your lips? Is it about focusing
on what you're getting paid? Or is it how much
(26:19):
time can I take for myself? Which I'm not sure
is the best way to start a negotiation, but anyway,
you can tell us what would be your first thing
to talk about twenty four and a half minutes to
six news talks that'd be yes. Welcome back through the
(26:46):
Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage. My guest is Max Whitehead
is an employment law specialist. We're talking broadly in our
conversation around what are the most important things in your employment?
Is it work life balance? Is it ahead of salary
or benefits? But extending the conversation to people who are
working past the age of sixty five, we have had
a bit of a superannuation theme during the show because
(27:06):
we had a chat about the fact that we're not
going to be able to afward our superannuation in the
decades to come, and we need to start thinking about
other taxes or how we're going to do cover that.
But for those who are working past sixty five, what
is it that is keeping you satisfied and or motivated?
And why? And when I say why are you're doing it?
(27:28):
I don't mean that why are you're doing it as
if it's a naughty thing to do? But what is
motivating you? What's motiving that choice? Because there is a
large number there are a large number of people beyond
the age of sixty five, we will continue working. And
for many of the people I know do it, it's
simply because they like being an active member of society.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Let me tell you this story. I had an employer
contact me once and he said, we've got a seventy
six year old and she's the glue in the office
and she's been talking about leaving, and I'm saying, please
don't go seventy six because she just gets everyone together,
she motivates people, she's got a nice spirit about it,
and just actually made it all happen for him. So
(28:07):
he begged it not to go, and she did retire.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's seventy He begged her not to go, but she
still retired.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yep, because everyone just loved it so much and she
just held it together.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I wonder if the begging included a pay rise. I
think I think, you know, it's all right, you can
beg but you know, money talks.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Maybe I was seventy six. I think she might have
said to him, that's a good question for you, because
you think money. Does the world revolves around money? Well?
I think in her particular case, she probably thinks, no,
I need a rest. For goodness, I don't want to
get up at five o'clock in the morning to get
ready made.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I wonder how, and I mean, obviously that person begged
them to stay, but it's interesting to try and how
would you quantify the value of that sort of employee
to an organization where they are sort of the blue
A lot of workplaces, I mean, you spend more time
at work than you do with your family a lot
of the time. And if you've got someone who makes people,
who makes the workplace, who gives it a certain atmosphere
(29:04):
or a vibe, whatever, I don't know how you value that,
but it's it's worth something.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
And a focus. I mean, someone to go to who's
a mentor and say, look, I'm not you know, I'm
not feeling right up to it. I don't tell the boss.
What do you reckon? Now? You go take your time
and do this and this, and I can help you
with some degree. But what what you need to do
is to go and blah blah blah blah. You know,
give you some wise counsel.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, okay, let's take some more calls. Suzette.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Hello, Hi there, Hi, Susette, how are you doing good?
Speaker 7 (29:35):
When I gave up lessing at fifty five, the nurse
manager said, when I said I'm leaving, she said, human
resources will not let you leave. I thought they don't
hold me.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I think she was trying to compliment you.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
No, no, she was absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Up front.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
They can't stop it from leaving. But Sustte, I say,
Tim's right there. I think you being told you a
wonderful person.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Now, I think they were just saying we love you.
Don't leave. In fact, I have an order saying you're
not allowed to leave. That's the sort of I mean,
it's not real. Don't you think that that's the game
they played.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
It was because her job depended on me being there?
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Did you, of course?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
What happened to her job? Did it turn out her
job depended on you being there? Or did she carry
on quite happily?
Speaker 7 (30:28):
They moved her from management to ED and so.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I guess she was happy with that emergency department. What
was your job?
Speaker 1 (30:38):
What did you do?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Nurse? Well, I mean a nurse, but there's nurses and
all sorts of specialties these days. What was your what
was your Well?
Speaker 7 (30:46):
I was an intensive care the last position, but I
was really a floater. So when it was on that
moved me here or there afterwards, indeed, or an emergency somewhere.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Well, you've seen some action, I'm sure, But now did
you miss them when you're left?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
No?
Speaker 7 (31:08):
When I lived, I became self employed as an entrepreneur,
buying and selling houses, renovating them and all that stuff.
Fir far enjoyed it. No pecking order, no stream has
just got the job done.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
And hopefully no one in intensive care unless you unless
you got yourself in trouble on the work site doing
some DIY.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Well, if someone didn't buy their property, might be.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
There was his Maybe that was their closing arguments like, hey, listen,
you know we're going to close the steel. I used
to work in intensive care, and trust me, I know
how to put you there. Sorry, I'm just being mischievous.
Is that you don't have to respond to that. In fact,
you can't because we're going to go to Actually a
few texts, we've got quite a few texts to get
on top of before we go to Ken. My husband
is seventy three and still working my way. While it
(31:56):
may appear that we are being selfish, we don't want
to look at anyone else to support us, and we're
trying to help our children too, have young families and
so they can look also look not have to look
elsewhere for support. That's the thing. There's always other reasons.
People just look at older people working they think, why
are you still doing it?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Well, then well what they're trying to do is give
dignity to their other family. I think that's what's the
motivator there.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
But yeah, let's go to Ken. I do want to
before my mind, we we've got to talk about that
that bit about the new rules around one hundred and
eighty thousand dollars salary or nothing that we must touch
on that before you let down. Wrap it up. But
let's go to Ken get Hello Ken.
Speaker 6 (32:34):
Great guys, I don't I've enjoyed listening to you a
bit of a chit chat. I'm down here. It's really late.
I'm overlooking. Who were harder? Down a pocket? Anyway?
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Oh you got that?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Are you playing here?
Speaker 6 (32:48):
I had to make the truck out of the out
of the driveway of the driveway because the kids next
door were playing ball, and that means my truck's going
to get hit with it. So I came down here
and I've the usual story. There's plenty of freedom campers
down here and people living in the park.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Now.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
My point, as being a baby boomer I'm seventy two,
is that it's a nonsense to me.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
What's nonsense that people older people.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
Are in a way it should be working. I know
how they yeah, I know how they feel, and I
think that well, p's their best. But my that's my
feeling about it. I would never employ anybody above the
age of sixty five, and I think people that's why
(33:38):
people above the age of sixty five don't get employed.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I know what it's like.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
It's fifty five now.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Now, and I surgeon who's about seventy one, and he's
still doing great work and making a big difference in
people's lives. And he's seventy one.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
He's not as good as he was when he was
forty one. That's the point.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
And you would agree that some people perform better than
others and at certain ages.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Then again, judges, they say get wiser with a little
bit of age. I mean, if you wanted to judge,
would you want to judge it is in their thirties
and you know, but wet behind these.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Look.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Look, it's a very broad brush you're stroking there. But
the other point that I would like to make there's,
you know, like basically we're where the human instrument wears out.
Let's put it that way, and it doesn't wear out
in a lineal sense. You might be physically looking good,
but you might have issues to do with your liver,
(34:36):
or you might have issues was your hearing or your
vision or your thinking or your memory?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
And I reckon you need to back up your how
old are you? Roughly? I think you need to support
your age group and say right, I'm here.
Speaker 6 (34:45):
No, I don't agree with that, I'm seventy two. But
the point and that's why I'm saying that. The point
I'm the point I'm making here as well is that
with with older people is I don't have a lot
of time for people who are young paying for the
(35:09):
pension for people who are old, because basically I don't
think that's right for young people. My view about it,
who is this is that old people boomers have voted
for forty or fifty years for policies, which means there's
no superannuation fund. Yeah, I think there's no superhu superannuation
(35:30):
fund and there's no superannuation.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, well I spend damn your whole generation can. But
we'll leave it there because a bit of a misery
guts there on your own generation goodness, may I mean
for goodness sake? You know, sorry, but you know, back
your own generation up. Don't write everyone off just because
you're feeling a bit miserable yourself. Crikey, dick, Sorry, is
that a bit harsh?
Speaker 4 (35:53):
You've got to get a lot of callers now, I'm sure, Oh.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
We haven't much time. But anyway, I'll tell you what.
I'll don't have a cup of tena like. Look, can
I actually do appreciate you having the courage of convictions.
You've caught up to see your views. No better crack it.
You're just a bit of fun. But welcome to We'll
see if we get any text on that one work.
Max Whitehead will be back in just a moment. It's
coming up to eleven minutes to six. Yes, welcome back.
I'm Tim Beverage with Max Whitehead and Lucky Last call it. David.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Hello, Hello David. Yeah, Hi, very good.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
What's up?
Speaker 6 (36:25):
Okay, what's up?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well?
Speaker 6 (36:27):
I made your sex and I'm still.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Working you Europe. That's full time. What are you doing
full time?
Speaker 6 (36:35):
Yeah? I'm writing about four businesses.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
All right, So you run your own businesses, do you, David?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's not four bakeries where you're up at
two am in the morning, you know, I sort of
getting them.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
These are.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
Marketing businesses and.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Production business David. You must be like mister Fletcher used
to go into work and he was in his seventies
or eighties, so we'd park speak and every day he
went to work way into his eighties, but he was
more of a figurehead for the organization.
Speaker 6 (37:13):
Well, that's right, I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
But becoming a figurehead, do you have a lot of
staff look up to you're still coming in.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Oh yeah, we have a crowded with stuff. But yeah,
it gives you purpose in life. They retire and they've
lost the purpose in life there you know what is
in the headhouse one day and the next day they're nobody.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
If I was going to sermonize a little bit essentially,
what's behind my admiration for people? He keep working and
people work for a bunch of reasons. But obviously you
know you're not going to suddenly end up, you know,
in the poorhouse if you retire. But I just think
that that it's and I think it's more inspirational to
people that there are people who can demonstrate that you
(37:57):
don't just stagger through to sixty five. If you can
find something that inspires you, you enjoy doing it, that
you and it's it's not like you were saying, I'm working,
therefore you can't to me the lesseners. Look at me.
I'm eighty six and I'm still going and get into it.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Four businesses where he's employing people, making and doing something
constructive for our society.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, I think it's inspiring. It's not a it's not
a you get stuffed or I'm being self. I think
hats off to people like you, David.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
Good on you, mate. You guys will know of Warren Buffett.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Oh well he's only just retired and how what was
he and wequit? I think people who had shares with
Warren were quite happy that he kept on going, didn't they.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
I bet he's worth.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
War Warren has made the point that he knows a
lot of a lot of entrepreneurs there who hit their
peak at ninety.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Well he would because he's ninety four. And I imagine
he mixes in some fairly rare about atmosphere Trump's going
to do. Oh okay, don't bring it down at the
thinking about so.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
David, I'm going to quickly tell you about a friend
of mind. He did very very well in business. As
soon as he gave it up, he lost all sort
of dignity on the basis that he was insignificant thereafter,
and he shared that with me. So I think, good
on you. You carry on absolutely and being self employed,
as he is more important than You're not taking anyone's job,
(39:24):
you're creating jobs. Well done.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Absolutely good on your David. Yeah, and that I think
is thank you, mate, And I think that's a good
note to end on a way, And I think what
I try and generally push back and talk back on
this stuff is when it people want to otherise others.
They want to go people in this age or the
second gender or this race and stuff like that, and
it's so unhelpful. And I just sort of think that
(39:47):
it's better to look at people like David and people
who care I'm working. If it's not out of desperations,
because they enjoy it, then what a great role, what
great examples. So here ended the lesson a Max.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
That's the end of the meeting.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I mean, of course you're still in your infancy, that's
why you're still working. But ah, if people want some
some help from you, though, can they where can they
get in touch?
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Well? Max for the Facts. If you need to kids touch,
it's Max dot w at Whitehead Group, dot co dot
in zere.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
You you better say that again because you you blurred
it with Max for the Facts. I think people are
google googling Max forothe facts dot com or okay.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Just google Max whitehead and you'll pick me up. But
it's Whitehead Group, dot co dot in zied.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Excellent. Thank you so much, Max, and what a great session.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
You will enjoy your holiday.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Well, I am taking a I'm taking a few days.
And Andrew, Andrew Dickins is going to be filling in
on the Weekend Collective. So I think that'll be the
first time for Andrew, big career move for him filling
in the Tim Beverage on the Weekend Collective. He'll be
excited about that. So tune in next weekend again and
I'll look forward to your company in a couple of
weeks time. And thanks also to my producer who's because
(40:53):
Tyra is away she's getting married. I'm not sure if
she is actually is married now, but she's got a
few weeks off, and so Isaiah has been filling in.
And Isaiah has been doing a rip rowing job. So
thank you so much for your preparation today as so
really good music. Oh boy, you're setting a high bar there, mate,
And I'll look forward to your company in a couple
of weeks. Have a great rest of you Sunday evening,
and thanks so much for your time. We'll look forward
(41:15):
to next time. Cheers.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
I certainly was in the rape.
Speaker 7 (41:25):
I don't know it was really drunk at the time.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
You just told me it was.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
For more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to News
Talk Said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at b.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
R S time sample of his band Simple Balls, Wow, Western.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Class Now.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Elmo sell Man s Man a complicated as.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Well.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I let that roll a little bit longer, sell us,
Jim Jimmy Barnes. I mean, you can't, you know. I think,
actually we hear this every time we hear Max Max Whitehead.
It is good. I was Max Bradford again because you
kept on reminding me that I used to get your
name wrong, because he was the local mpued.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Earlier on Folks and he's just copied it.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Excellent, Yeah, excellent. We're with Max Whitehead, of course, the
familiar tones of the employment law specialist. And look, just
before we get into it, one your Cause, of course,
that's the name of the game of eight hundred and
eight ten eighty text nineteen nine two. Before I do,
I'll just mention if you did miss the Health Hub
fantastic conversation with h at Kent John's about motivation and
just you know, a lot of the time people listen
(01:37):
to shows about exercise and you sort of think, O, well,
I'm not doing that yet. I'm not doing that yet.
And it was an interesting discussion around just how do
you get going without giving yourself a goal that's going
to intimidate you into stopping In a.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Couple of weeks, I couldn't wait because I did nine
thousand steps this today.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You just did that sitting in your share twitching, didn't
you just now?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
It's a working class man.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Anyway, and if you wanted to hear that and the
politics how we had a chat about the with Ruth
Money about the new sentencing guidelines that have come in.
We're not the guidelines and new rules around it, and
that was an interesting chat as well. And we had
also spoke with PWC's policy tax leader, Sandy Law about
about the cost of the cost of superannuation and how
(02:19):
we're going to pay for it eventually and something's going
to have to change with our tax settings or something.
And so you can listen to everyone's calls on that.
Go to the weekend look for the Weekend Collective on
iHeartRadio or news talk, said b right, Max, So survey
results have shown that New Zealand workers this year value
noways cynical about these things. But I'll finish what I'm
(02:40):
reading Value work life balance ahead of salary or benefits,
career development, and even job security. So that is a
big one. They value work life balance ahead of salary
or benefits, career development, and even job security. Additionally, the
same reports show employees are likely to switch jobs for
(03:02):
better work life balance than better pay. I'm going to
qualify that in a second with my own rancid opinion.
But so what a nine to five is actually want
from their employers? What keeps them satisfied and motivated the
point that they're working past sixty five as well? Max,
I reckon just a hot take that if you are
earning a truckload of money, then you might be I
(03:23):
don't care about money. I just care about life balance.
But if you're struggling to pay the bills, I don't
know whether those people are. What do you reckon?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Well, I think there's a new philosophy in town, and
I actually do think there's a lot of people do
believe that. But it also if they're filling out a survey,
they don't know who's watching it. So what can I do?
I'll make get people impressed with me. Money's not important
to me, and that's the vogue. The people aren't even
being honest I'm out of COVID's cod People didn't want
(03:53):
to go back to work. They did not want to
go back and working from home. Everyone one wants to
work from home right now.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Well, is this one of the big issues that you're
having to battle all the time. Absolutely, because I've got
to say, look and we've all I'm not shifting the conversation,
but it's a sideline. It's one of the angles. Is
the whole working from home. I like coming into work.
I like separating. There were working from home up to
(04:20):
a point, and I've broadcast from home. We have these
bits of equipment they can see around. We connected into
the Wi Fi and everything not into the WiFi. We're
hard wired and you can actually do the show from home.
If I was desperate, if work we're desperate. I like
coming to work. I hate the fact that workplace, that
the lounge orman, you know, at the spare room, became
(04:42):
the office. And yet you're saying that people want to
do more of it.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
They certainly do, and they do. They enjoy it because
I think it's a little bit about Oh, I can
see my kids more often, I can do a lot
more in my time, I can spread myself around a
little bit, get the meal prepared while I'm supposed to
be working. Note a few other things like this. And
I've got to say, in some areas the product but
he does increase. In some areas people take advantage that
(05:09):
they can't help themselves. They'd rather go off and play
other than go to work.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
How difficult is it for people to be monitored by
their managers and bosses?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Very difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I mean, I guess if they're getting done the work
you're setting them, then fine. In fact, I wonder if
you are working from home, you know, not being supervised,
you think, well, if i can bang this out really quickly,
then I'm off to the beach yep. And a manager,
if they knew that'd be like, oh, you've finished that already,
I might give you something else.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Oh of course. Then AI I can do things in
micro seconds where they used to take at least an
hour or so to do it. That happens, I can
tell you now that does happen. I mean in the
law fraternity, I mean they create documentation and charge hours
and hours of work for it, but AI will just
put it out within seconds.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It is actually an amazing tool. I wonder, actually it's
I don't imagine it's real, resulting in cheaper legal bills
for people the case. Here are the facts, here's the
interview together, a statement of claim, and then they just
go and I mean it must be a massive time saving.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Well, I think of your staff. I mentioned writing a
news item. You know that would be very much easier
using AI than it would be.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, that's quite an art. I'm going to say that's
an art just because I'm sure that I have never
done it. Pretty strict rules about not going near that
stuff to be so you just on that one. Yeah,
it's just hush your pretty little mouth. But actually, how
how realistic is it? And is that the biggest thing
is at the moment, a lot if.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
People just do not prefer to work from home, A
lot of employers now are insisting. So I'm asked constantly
what's the law? Say, what what do I have to do?
We have to go with the boss and go back
to the workplace. Well, can I work from home?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, to be honest, I would have thought that the
law would be in the boss's favor, wouldn't it. I mean,
if you're providing someone with a job, you've got a
workplace you want them to work for work at I
would have thought that it's only in the negotiation with
an employee that would lead to them having a bit
more leeway.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Well, what it is, it's pre COVID. Anyone started before
pre COVID. The employment agreement must stipulate where the workplace is.
So all those documents before that were like workplaces some
and so after COVID, employers were struggling to get the
workers and so what they said, Oh there's an option here,
you could work from home, and they've drafted that into
(07:28):
employment agreements. So that document will dictate what they can do,
what the employer can enforce.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay, And what happens I mean is that the standard
thing these days is that are people negotiating a certain
amount of time that they work from home.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yep, there's a lot of preference to do that. Some
people won't drive the work in the workplace, like yourself.
I'd say, it's almost a generational thing. The younger ones.
Let me go home and be near my children. Let
me go home and be near my you know, the
house gives me comfort, and I don't have to get
dressed up as much, and you know, the makeup, I
don't have to put on that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, I mean for me as well. I mean broadcasting
it's a people business and I like to be around people.
And I think, you know, just trying to walk into
your into your office sort of thing and sit down
and feel connected in a way that you wouldn't feel
as we've got a newsroom of reporters. You can catch
up with what the latest is. There's a certain I
really yeah, I think that that's well.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Let me tell you I worn't from them for twenty years,
and I miss it. I missed the workplace for the
exact reason you're talking about. I saw you just walk
across the across the but you chatted to three people
on the wall.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I'm a pain in the butt.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
No, I think it's and you had them laughing. And
I'm sitting back as a spectator watching this thing, and
that's heartwarming.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
That's quite funny. I wonder if Elliot Smith sees me
coming and goes areas it care comes to trouble, I
do notice it. No, we had a brilliant and had
a brilliant idea for a podcast for Elliott actually, but
I won't share that because it's yeah, a good idea
so we want to hear from you. You though, when
it comes to work, what is you know, what are
(09:02):
the things you value most about work? And is it
a work life balance ahead of anything else Where does
salary come in? Because look, let's be honest, we turn
up to work to earn money to pay for the
things we want, whether it be to support our kids,
to put good food on the table. God, that's such
a cliche, isn't it, But that's for many people. That's
(09:23):
the basics. Pay the rent, feed your family, feed yourselves.
Maybe if you're lucky, be able to afford to do
something nice, if you've got a break and go somewhere
on holiday. So salary, I'm still suspicious that salary isn't
slightly more and just in terms of the rhetoric of
people's responses, slightly more important. In other words, if your
(09:46):
boss said to you, I'll tell you what we'll pay you.
You know, look, if you're prepared to fore go one
hundred bucks a week, we'll let you work from home
three days a week. But otherwise we'll pay you a
hundred dollars more a week to come and to work.
In fact, actually there'll be a lot of people going
all the parking, the transport. OK, I'll work from home.
But you know what I mean? What is king for
you in the workplace? Is it salary? Is other benefits?
(10:06):
Is it the fact that I don't know, your employer
gives you access to cheaper healthcare, but they see that's money.
Is it the fact that you've got career development or
even job security?
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Isn't a theory since COVID. COVID actually supplied made sure
salary was paid to people even irrespective they went to work. Also,
it's a parachute for them. There's a comfort zone. There's
also today you can get the unemployment benefit. Whereas you
talk to older people, you were the breadwinner, you had
to go to work, otherwise your family suffered immensely.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, so we would love to know from you if
you're listening. By the way, if you've got any questions
for Max, he's an employment law specialist and often people
call up because they're having a particular problem they need
to resolve and how do they get started with the
resolving the problem they've got. You're welcome to give us
a call on that as well. On eight hundred and
eighty ten to eighty. But on the broader topic. We're
talking about what is the most important thing about work
(11:01):
for you and what's the work life balance that is
important to you? A head of salary, benefits, career development,
and even job security. Give us a call eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. I mean, are you like me? Do
you actually like to go to work because you like
to be with the people who you work with. You
enjoy working with them, you enjoy the environment. Is that
(11:21):
an important part of it? Or you know what if
you could do it all from home, wouldn't that be great?
Eight hundred eighty ten eighties the number text nine two
nine two? How so do you work? Where do you
work from?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Now?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Max?
Speaker 4 (11:33):
From home?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (11:35):
So and look, I was going to end something else
here for older people already getting a pension for example,
but they want to work and why it gives them
purpose in life. It gives them a standing in the
community and they can hold their head up with some pride.
I'm actually contributing to our society. Yeah, I'm not just taking.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Actually, that is the extra question to it as well,
because if you are working past sixty five, is so
so many more people are doing these days? What is
it about your job that makes it doable simply, Look,
I need the money and I just have to have
to work. Or is it because you've created the conditions
at work that work for you? And look, why would
you stop because you're enjoying it? Eighty ten eighty text
(12:16):
nine to nine two and you can email. I don't
worry about the email. I'm not going to get round
of the email. I'll be heading out of the office
on holiday in about forty.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Minutes'll be back.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
No, I'm not, I'm working hard. It's it's eighteen minutes
past five. News talk said by that's right, we're back
(12:48):
weekend collective. It's a smart money My guess is Max
white Head, employment law specialist. We're asking what's the most
important thing and you work deal? Basically is it about
the money or is it about the work work life balance?
Because apparently, according to survey results, workers are saying it's
work life balance ahead of salary, benefits, career development or
even job secure, which sounds like I don't know. I
(13:09):
want to be skeptical about it, but you've got to
go with these things. Let's take your cause.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
John, Hello, Hey John? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Okoday, guys, how are you? Yeah, I'm Look, I'm an
older worker. I'm I'm, you know, sixty six and continuing
to work. I spent I came back from the UK
in late twenty twenty two, was up there during COVID
and everything else. You know, I think everybody's situation is different.
But working from home, yeah, I guess works in some industries,
(13:38):
but I think I think by large, you know, I
think it's great to be back in the office. I
spent a lot of years on the road and now
I'm I'm still in the sales environment, but I'm going
to one place every day, and to me, it's about
the community of going there. Staff there are fantastic. But
the other side of it, for me, at the age
i'm at the thing I cherish the most. I can
go into work in the morning, do a really good job,
(14:01):
and mean when I leave at five, I leave it
all behind. That's really important to me. Whereas other roles
I've had passed, you know, you sort of you know,
do what you do for a couple of hours. You've
got the lamptop out happen away doing stuff. So so yeah,
that's the difference to me, you know. But I'm going
to do another two or three years still enjoying working.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, that's yeah, that's an interesting point. What are you
what's your reflections on that, Max, Because you don't tell
you if you if you're working from home, it's you
can't really leave you how the challenge is to leave
you work.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
I'm thinking slow, I'm thinking John's valuing it and tell
me John if this is correct, because you've your experience,
you've been around. But also it's it provides you with
dignity and a social outlet as well. And it sounds
like working with your colleagues is something that you do enjoy,
even though you might not spend hours talking about stuff
and just you know, social things. It's just been near
(14:52):
someone else and actually being able to just have a
chat when you feel like it about something else.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Yeah, that's that's that's right. That my situation that that's
certainly right. And maybe maybe because I didn't spend a
lot of time on the road, you know, for for
quite a lot of years. You know, being being in
the one place is quite important.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
To me now.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
But so I enjoy all the that. But but again
I'm not working necessarily because I have to, but I
still I still enjoy the challenge going to work, and
you know, I've got plenty of other communities outside of work,
but it works worth something. I'm still enjoying.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
So John, you and your work when your work life,
I can imagine you're driving for for what eighty percent
of the time? Was seventy percent of the time of
ninety twenty percent with people? Would that be right?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (15:35):
Probably seventy Probably, you're right, it's probably seventy thirty, you know.
And that's a lot of that's a lot of dead time,
even though you've got to go and see customers. It's
a lot of dead time on your backside, you know.
And it's and it's and it's yeah, you know, I've
traveled a lot, you know, I stay at hotels called
aeroplanes here there, and people think that it's.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
A lonely light. It's a lonely Yeah, yeah, good role.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Thanks John. Cheers mate. There lots of ticks on this
before you go to Catherine, is it. I don't know
what this one is. Somebody says, if you fall over
at work at home during work hours, is that classed
as a workplace accident? Trivial sort of weird question, but
then again not really.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Yeah, and it's a hard one because really you have
to associate it with the work that you're actually doing
at home. So if you're sitting and talking on the phone,
for example, or you're sitting at your desk and working, well,
then tripping while you're walking is probably not.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Put Well, if you're going to get your cup of
coffee for Smoko time and you stand up and you
fall over and you wack your head on the desk,
and I know that sounds like a workplace.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
I know you're right him, because if you did at
the workplace, then it would be deemed to be work
related accident. Yeah, So it depends on how.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
If you've gone up to change your child's nappies and
you know, something happens or something and you slip over,
then probably not a workplace action.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Or your previous guest they're not taking a jog at
the time, maybe that wouldn't work either. So it just
just depends on what you're doing, I think, and what's
it related to.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
We can probably imagine quite a few scenarios and interesting
scenarios we can throw max for different questions. It actually
I got yes, Now I'm going to send some myself
on that one. Let's go to Catherine.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
Hello, Hello Catherine, Hi, how are you deceiving?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Very good?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I'm ringing in because on talk about radio this week,
I've been hearing about how the superannuation government to granuation
is actually a benefit. And I am seventy one years
old this year, and I am still working three days
a week and tens worked on seventy five. I've paid
(17:33):
my taxes through the years.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
I work three jobs.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
When I was younger, sought I could buy my first time,
and at this point in time, I'm paying secondary employment tax,
actually high secondary I employment tax on my second job,
so I kin't it's my job other than my attention.
So I sort of get a bit resentful about people
calling us greedy and everything else. And even those people
(17:56):
on high are much higher wages than I given been
on They've been paying higher taxes normally, so their contribution
to the pension system has been greater than most. But
I just I just sort of have been thinking all
week about some of the discussions on it. Football tonight,
I'm just going to ring and say, not all of
(18:17):
it are out there working because we're greedy.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
No, you're doing it because you need it.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
You can't live on the pinch.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
No, you can't.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
And I do have savings and I'm mortgage free, but
I work in a job that doesn't have all the
KPIs budget mine budget that I used to have, and
I work with amazing people in a family firm.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Point, Catherine, how would you feel if if there was
three people lined up who had children at home and
they needed a job desperately and were skilled as equally
as good as you? I woul dare say, you're still
working at seventy one. You've got some a lot of
wisdom and knowledge of your job.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
But oh well yes, yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 6 (19:03):
Well I feel I mean, they're.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
More deserving than you. That's probably the better question.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Well, I don't think so, because I think I've paid
my juris over the years to be able to do
what I'm doing. And I know that it's a selfish
boomer thought, but you know, I've done my swimming to
make money to.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Be wow, I don't think it's a selfish thought. Sorry, Catherine, No, no, no,
but look everyone Otherwise we end up arguing that anyone
who charges more than the sort of basic subsistence for
their time has been greedy. We're aspirational.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
You were.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
I'm on a very very I'm not on a huge
hollly rate at all. I'm in a retail rate, but
I work with people of different ages from seventeen to
sixty and we have fair best customers that are regulars
that come in and build a relationship with And I
have friends who on the dimension trip dementia trip. Now,
(20:03):
I just want to keep my brain and my body
effective as I possibly can and maintain the standard of living.
That one is true, and by the time I'm simplified,
probably I might actually need to work.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, well, look, I think you make what a decisions
you want and the idea that we want to accuse people.
Thank you for your caller beings.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
So that was great.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I mean, I mean, you can always throw the accusation
of selfish, it's one of us. I mean there are
times when, of course in life, when you can probably
can accuse someone of being selfish where they're not considering
the needs of others. But when you're simply just doing
your best to keep living a good active life and
paying for things you want to do, that's not selfish.
That's living life.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Yeah, well, I do actually think your contribution to society
Catherine's obviously made a huge contribution, and also she's a
very comfortable position. She's got savings, she's got things. But
those other people who are struggling and trying to get
a home even you know, get a house for themselves,
and she's way ahead of those. And I'm just wondering,
you know, even looking at myself, was at the times
(21:03):
she just step aside and let someone have a go.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
No, no, no, that's bollocks. No, But I mean, I'm
just using colorful descriptions all.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
The announcers that want to come in and take your job.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Oh good goodness, me gosh, I'm further down the age scale.
Don't worry. There's a few probably older than me hopefully,
But no, I mean, I just think that there's I
think life is expensive. You look at the cost of living,
and I think even just now, I'm noticing the increase
and things like rates kicking in and you're seeing what
the rates, even Hamilton were they go another fifteen percent
rate rise and different inflationary measures that are kicking in.
(21:39):
And if anyone thinks that you can get by on
the peace superannuation, you mean, that's that's the thing. What's
the number of people who are having to work past
the age of sixty five. And then other people surveyed.
Was it forty percent at least or more? I can't
remember the number, but there was a lot of people.
In fact, it was almost looked like it was a
luxury to be giving up at sixty five.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Oh and I talked to a friend in the week.
He's going off to live in a caravan up north,
very remote spot. Why because he can't he's lost, he's
lost his life savings.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Oh.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
I know, it's awful and he's just going up there
to chill, but he's got no money, bloody, and to
live on the pension. That's the only way you can
see you can survive.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
That's pretty tough.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
That's rent, no limited rent. So in a caravan he's going,
and he's looking forward to it. I must admit.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, Well, I hope it works out from God. And
that's the thing I think. You know, people, when we
end up with these conversations, everyone assumes that maybe they
assume older people have got a job and work for
forty fifty years and they should be fine. But people
have ups and downs and all sorts of things. They
have a crack at different businesses. Maybe they buy a
house at the wrong time and they struggle to meet
the mortgage payments. I wonder how many people live the
(22:47):
conventional life. Well, you get a qualification or an early job,
invest in a business or your own time, and you
just work in that business, maybe a career change or two,
and then you retire happy and then hopefully don't live
too long and cost the health system so much.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Discriminating, isn't it, Because in a way, because if you've
got so much experience and done well in life. I mean,
there's a law passing soon that anyone earning over one
hundred and eighty thousand dollars is not allowed to go
and use the law to take a personal grievance.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Actually, yes, let's dig into that, by the way, because
I don't quite understand why. What The justification for that
law is.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
No why, And I just think it's discriminating against someone
who's been successful, okay, which I find very strange for
this government.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
It does sound quickly. I'm surprised I didn't pick up
on that to discuss that with you today. Somebody is
that there's some interesting questions coming on the text. One
is I'm almost wondering if this is a mischievous text,
because it's almost I can't believe it could be real,
let alone legal. Hi, Max, my employer has decided to
(23:49):
give women fifteen days sick leave per annum and leave
men at ten days.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Is that legation that's not legal?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I mean, who's doing that?
Speaker 4 (24:01):
I would agree it doesn't sound kosher. But if that's happening,
that individual could take an action against his employer for
breach of the Human Rights Act.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Is it possible that there's something missing in that fact
that they say if you need extra leave for maternity leave.
They've granted them something, and there's something missing. I mean,
is there would there be an excuse to say, if
you are having a baby, we will give you extra
maternity leave for whatever.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
I remember very successful man once said publicly, No, he
wasn't public He thought he was quiet. They hid the
camera and actually he didn't realize he was still being anyway.
What he says is that women are less productive than
men because of their once a month periods.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Oh well that wasn't a smart thing.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
No, But I'm wondering is this implying the same I
don't know, I.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Do not know. No, I don't think so. It just
looks like a parandum thing fifteen hours. Well, anyway, okay.
Another one says, my wife took a ten thousand dollars
a year pay cut to work nine days in every fortnight.
So I guess I'm assuming she was on a hund thousands.
She went down to ninety thousand and just said I'll
(25:07):
do that because only.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
And there's stories of stories that there is a lot
out there people take a pay company and rather and
actually ask for a demotion, rather than actually have the
stress of a high level job.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Another person say, life balance.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Another person thinks that the perhaps the survey was targeting
eighteen to thirty five year olds different views on work.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Yeah, it's very true.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
You were were a bit suspicious about that. Yeah, yah,
I'll love to go down and look at that survey.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Anyway, suspicious that they were just thinking, who's going to
read this, I'll better make sure the boss is happy
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I would like to think it was maybe a
little bit more profit than that. Anyway, of course, it's
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number. Text nine
two nine two. By the way, we have canvas to
fair bit of information and a few angles of conversation.
So just to bring it back to what we're talking about,
is what is the primary thing you want to achieve
(25:58):
with your work life, with your with your employment? Is
it about work life balance? And is that more important
than salary of benefits? Let's look at it this way.
You're going in to negotiate to do a job, what's
the first question on your lips? Is it about focusing
on what you're getting paid? Or is it how much
(26:19):
time can I take for myself? Which I'm not sure
is the best way to start a negotiation, but anyway,
you can tell us what would be your first thing
to talk about twenty four and a half minutes to
six news talks that'd be yes. Welcome back through the
(26:46):
Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage. My guest is Max Whitehead
is an employment law specialist. We're talking broadly in our
conversation around what are the most important things in your employment?
Is it work life balance? Is it ahead of salary
or benefits? But extending the conversation to people who are
working past the age of sixty five, we have had
a bit of a superannuation theme during the show because
(27:06):
we had a chat about the fact that we're not
going to be able to afward our superannuation in the
decades to come, and we need to start thinking about
other taxes or how we're going to do cover that.
But for those who are working past sixty five, what
is it that is keeping you satisfied and or motivated?
And why? And when I say why are you're doing it?
(27:28):
I don't mean that why are you're doing it as
if it's a naughty thing to do? But what is
motivating you? What's motiving that choice? Because there is a
large number there are a large number of people beyond
the age of sixty five, we will continue working. And
for many of the people I know do it, it's
simply because they like being an active member of society.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Let me tell you this story. I had an employer
contact me once and he said, we've got a seventy
six year old and she's the glue in the office
and she's been talking about leaving, and I'm saying, please
don't go seventy six because she just gets everyone together,
she motivates people, she's got a nice spirit about it,
and just actually made it all happen for him. So
(28:07):
he begged it not to go, and she did retire.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's seventy He begged her not to go, but she
still retired.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yep, because everyone just loved it so much and she
just held it together.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I wonder if the begging included a pay rise. I
think I think, you know, it's all right, you can
beg but you know, money talks.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Maybe I was seventy six. I think she might have
said to him, that's a good question for you, because
you think money. Does the world revolves around money? Well?
I think in her particular case, she probably thinks, no,
I need a rest. For goodness, I don't want to
get up at five o'clock in the morning to get
ready made.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I wonder how, and I mean, obviously that person begged
them to stay, but it's interesting to try and how
would you quantify the value of that sort of employee
to an organization where they are sort of the blue
A lot of workplaces, I mean, you spend more time
at work than you do with your family a lot
of the time. And if you've got someone who makes people,
who makes the workplace, who gives it a certain atmosphere
(29:04):
or a vibe, whatever, I don't know how you value that,
but it's it's worth something.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
And a focus. I mean, someone to go to who's
a mentor and say, look, I'm not you know, I'm
not feeling right up to it. I don't tell the boss.
What do you reckon? Now? You go take your time
and do this and this, and I can help you
with some degree. But what what you need to do
is to go and blah blah blah blah. You know,
give you some wise counsel.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, okay, let's take some more calls. Suzette.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Hello, Hi there, Hi, Susette, how are you doing good?
Speaker 7 (29:35):
When I gave up lessing at fifty five, the nurse
manager said, when I said I'm leaving, she said, human
resources will not let you leave. I thought they don't
hold me.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I think she was trying to compliment you.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
No, no, she was absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Up front.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
They can't stop it from leaving. But Sustte, I say,
Tim's right there. I think you being told you a
wonderful person.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Now, I think they were just saying we love you.
Don't leave. In fact, I have an order saying you're
not allowed to leave. That's the sort of I mean,
it's not real. Don't you think that that's the game
they played.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
It was because her job depended on me being there?
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Did you, of course?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
What happened to her job? Did it turn out her
job depended on you being there? Or did she carry
on quite happily?
Speaker 7 (30:28):
They moved her from management to ED and so.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I guess she was happy with that emergency department. What
was your job?
Speaker 1 (30:38):
What did you do?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Nurse? Well, I mean a nurse, but there's nurses and
all sorts of specialties these days. What was your what
was your Well?
Speaker 7 (30:46):
I was an intensive care the last position, but I
was really a floater. So when it was on that
moved me here or there afterwards, indeed, or an emergency somewhere.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Well, you've seen some action, I'm sure, But now did
you miss them when you're left?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
No?
Speaker 7 (31:08):
When I lived, I became self employed as an entrepreneur,
buying and selling houses, renovating them and all that stuff.
Fir far enjoyed it. No pecking order, no stream has
just got the job done.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
And hopefully no one in intensive care unless you unless
you got yourself in trouble on the work site doing
some DIY.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Well, if someone didn't buy their property, might be.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
There was his Maybe that was their closing arguments like, hey, listen,
you know we're going to close the steel. I used
to work in intensive care, and trust me, I know
how to put you there. Sorry, I'm just being mischievous.
Is that you don't have to respond to that. In fact,
you can't because we're going to go to Actually a
few texts, we've got quite a few texts to get
on top of before we go to Ken. My husband
is seventy three and still working my way. While it
(31:56):
may appear that we are being selfish, we don't want
to look at anyone else to support us, and we're
trying to help our children too, have young families and
so they can look also look not have to look
elsewhere for support. That's the thing. There's always other reasons.
People just look at older people working they think, why
are you still doing it?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Well, then well what they're trying to do is give
dignity to their other family. I think that's what's the
motivator there.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
But yeah, let's go to Ken. I do want to
before my mind, we we've got to talk about that
that bit about the new rules around one hundred and
eighty thousand dollars salary or nothing that we must touch
on that before you let down. Wrap it up. But
let's go to Ken get Hello Ken.
Speaker 6 (32:34):
Great guys, I don't I've enjoyed listening to you a
bit of a chit chat. I'm down here. It's really late.
I'm overlooking. Who were harder? Down a pocket? Anyway?
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Oh you got that?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Are you playing here?
Speaker 6 (32:48):
I had to make the truck out of the out
of the driveway of the driveway because the kids next
door were playing ball, and that means my truck's going
to get hit with it. So I came down here
and I've the usual story. There's plenty of freedom campers
down here and people living in the park.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Now.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
My point, as being a baby boomer I'm seventy two,
is that it's a nonsense to me.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
What's nonsense that people older people.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
Are in a way it should be working. I know
how they yeah, I know how they feel, and I
think that well, p's their best. But my that's my
feeling about it. I would never employ anybody above the
age of sixty five, and I think people that's why
(33:38):
people above the age of sixty five don't get employed.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I know what it's like.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
It's fifty five now.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Now, and I surgeon who's about seventy one, and he's
still doing great work and making a big difference in
people's lives. And he's seventy one.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
He's not as good as he was when he was
forty one. That's the point.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
And you would agree that some people perform better than
others and at certain ages.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Then again, judges, they say get wiser with a little
bit of age. I mean, if you wanted to judge,
would you want to judge it is in their thirties
and you know, but wet behind these.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Look.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Look, it's a very broad brush you're stroking there. But
the other point that I would like to make there's,
you know, like basically we're where the human instrument wears out.
Let's put it that way, and it doesn't wear out
in a lineal sense. You might be physically looking good,
but you might have issues to do with your liver,
(34:36):
or you might have issues was your hearing or your
vision or your thinking or your memory?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
And I reckon you need to back up your how
old are you? Roughly? I think you need to support
your age group and say right, I'm here.
Speaker 6 (34:45):
No, I don't agree with that, I'm seventy two. But
the point and that's why I'm saying that. The point
I'm the point I'm making here as well is that
with with older people is I don't have a lot
of time for people who are young paying for the
(35:09):
pension for people who are old, because basically I don't
think that's right for young people. My view about it,
who is this is that old people boomers have voted
for forty or fifty years for policies, which means there's
no superannuation fund. Yeah, I think there's no superhu superannuation
(35:30):
fund and there's no superannuation.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, well I spend damn your whole generation can. But
we'll leave it there because a bit of a misery
guts there on your own generation goodness, may I mean
for goodness sake? You know, sorry, but you know, back
your own generation up. Don't write everyone off just because
you're feeling a bit miserable yourself. Crikey, dick, Sorry, is
that a bit harsh?
Speaker 4 (35:53):
You've got to get a lot of callers now, I'm sure, Oh.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
We haven't much time. But anyway, I'll tell you what.
I'll don't have a cup of tena like. Look, can
I actually do appreciate you having the courage of convictions.
You've caught up to see your views. No better crack it.
You're just a bit of fun. But welcome to We'll
see if we get any text on that one work.
Max Whitehead will be back in just a moment. It's
coming up to eleven minutes to six. Yes, welcome back.
I'm Tim Beverage with Max Whitehead and Lucky Last call it. David.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Hello, Hello David. Yeah, Hi, very good.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
What's up?
Speaker 6 (36:25):
Okay, what's up?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well?
Speaker 6 (36:27):
I made your sex and I'm still.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Working you Europe. That's full time. What are you doing
full time?
Speaker 6 (36:35):
Yeah? I'm writing about four businesses.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
All right, So you run your own businesses, do you, David?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's not four bakeries where you're up at
two am in the morning, you know, I sort of
getting them.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
These are.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
Marketing businesses and.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Production business David. You must be like mister Fletcher used
to go into work and he was in his seventies
or eighties, so we'd park speak and every day he
went to work way into his eighties, but he was
more of a figurehead for the organization.
Speaker 6 (37:13):
Well, that's right, I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
But becoming a figurehead, do you have a lot of
staff look up to you're still coming in.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Oh yeah, we have a crowded with stuff. But yeah,
it gives you purpose in life. They retire and they've
lost the purpose in life there you know what is
in the headhouse one day and the next day they're nobody.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
If I was going to sermonize a little bit essentially,
what's behind my admiration for people? He keep working and
people work for a bunch of reasons. But obviously you
know you're not going to suddenly end up, you know,
in the poorhouse if you retire. But I just think
that that it's and I think it's more inspirational to
people that there are people who can demonstrate that you
(37:57):
don't just stagger through to sixty five. If you can
find something that inspires you, you enjoy doing it, that
you and it's it's not like you were saying, I'm working,
therefore you can't to me the lesseners. Look at me.
I'm eighty six and I'm still going and get into it.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Four businesses where he's employing people, making and doing something
constructive for our society.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, I think it's inspiring. It's not a it's not
a you get stuffed or I'm being self. I think
hats off to people like you, David.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
Good on you, mate. You guys will know of Warren Buffett.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Oh well he's only just retired and how what was
he and wequit? I think people who had shares with
Warren were quite happy that he kept on going, didn't they.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
I bet he's worth.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
War Warren has made the point that he knows a
lot of a lot of entrepreneurs there who hit their
peak at ninety.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Well he would because he's ninety four. And I imagine
he mixes in some fairly rare about atmosphere Trump's going
to do. Oh okay, don't bring it down at the
thinking about so.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
David, I'm going to quickly tell you about a friend
of mind. He did very very well in business. As
soon as he gave it up, he lost all sort
of dignity on the basis that he was insignificant thereafter,
and he shared that with me. So I think, good
on you. You carry on absolutely and being self employed,
as he is more important than You're not taking anyone's job,
(39:24):
you're creating jobs. Well done.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Absolutely good on your David. Yeah, and that I think
is thank you, mate, And I think that's a good
note to end on a way, And I think what
I try and generally push back and talk back on
this stuff is when it people want to otherise others.
They want to go people in this age or the
second gender or this race and stuff like that, and
it's so unhelpful. And I just sort of think that
(39:47):
it's better to look at people like David and people
who care I'm working. If it's not out of desperations,
because they enjoy it, then what a great role, what
great examples. So here ended the lesson a Max.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
That's the end of the meeting.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I mean, of course you're still in your infancy, that's
why you're still working. But ah, if people want some
some help from you, though, can they where can they
get in touch?
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Well? Max for the Facts. If you need to kids touch,
it's Max dot w at Whitehead Group, dot co dot
in zere.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
You you better say that again because you you blurred
it with Max for the Facts. I think people are
google googling Max forothe facts dot com or okay.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Just google Max whitehead and you'll pick me up. But
it's Whitehead Group, dot co dot in zied.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Excellent. Thank you so much, Max, and what a great session.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
You will enjoy your holiday.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Well, I am taking a I'm taking a few days.
And Andrew, Andrew Dickins is going to be filling in
on the Weekend Collective. So I think that'll be the
first time for Andrew, big career move for him filling
in the Tim Beverage on the Weekend Collective. He'll be
excited about that. So tune in next weekend again and
I'll look forward to your company in a couple of
weeks time. And thanks also to my producer who's because
(40:53):
Tyra is away she's getting married. I'm not sure if
she is actually is married now, but she's got a
few weeks off, and so Isaiah has been filling in.
And Isaiah has been doing a rip rowing job. So
thank you so much for your preparation today as so
really good music. Oh boy, you're setting a high bar there, mate,
And I'll look forward to your company in a couple
of weeks. Have a great rest of you Sunday evening,
and thanks so much for your time. We'll look forward
(41:15):
to next time. Cheers.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
I certainly was in the rape.
Speaker 7 (41:25):
I don't know it was really drunk at the time.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
You just told me it was.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
For more from the Weekend Collective. Listen live to News
Talk Said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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