August 17, 2025 • 41 mins
Wills are some of the most painstaking things you need to do as an adult. They remind you of your mortality, and of all the familial issues you may have had throughout the years.
But they must be done - so how can you write an airtight will?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
SED Be.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Jesus sure.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
N.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I wanna be nowhere here with you. I wanna be
one in this space. I'm gonna be tangled and banish
your cloud. I'm gonna be close to your face tomorrow
and wait time in this place. The sun is away.
(00:48):
I don't what they say. We can do it away
in the cloud Chester again.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yes, welcome back, this says or welcome if you've just
joined us week In Collective. I say that every hour.
I've gotta stop saying that and being repetitive. Anyway. This
is I'm Tim Beverige, and this is smart money. We
want your cause on our one hundred eighty ten. And
the conversation today is around wills, and you know the
associated trust sometimes get tied and too sometimes trust get
(01:14):
created out of a will, I guess. But what are
some of the wills? Are some of the sort of well,
you've got to have one. You really should have a will.
And sometimes it seem like one of the most painstaking
things you can do as an adult. Maybe it's because
it reminds you of your mortality. I'm trying to remember
when I actually did my will, whether I was because
I'd got married and I thought I should have a will.
(01:35):
I probably should have had one before that, but there
was the motivation for me and my wife to get
a will so we could basically count each other and
to whatever we had and whatever children would come out
of our marriage. But it is one of those things. Yeah,
they sometimes remind you of your mortality, and that's one
of the reasons people put it off. But they've got
(01:56):
to be done. And so we're going to have a
chat about whether you can write an airtight will because
the courts off and will challenge things. It's not necessarily
possible to write someone out of a will. If you've
got children, for instance, it's very difficult to write someone out.
Even just saying that Sun A will get more than
son B or daughter C can be have its challenges
(02:19):
as well. And so we're gonna chat about wills. We'd
love your calls on I eight hundred eighty ten and
eighty text nine two nine two and joining me to
discuss it. She is director of New Zealand Family Trust Services,
So if you've got any questions around trust, because that's
always a vexed issue as well, isn't it. You can
give us a call on eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty and her name is Janet Ziccoa and she's with
(02:41):
me now. Janet, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Hello there? I'm fine, Thank you very much, excellent.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Um you've got a will? I imagine, have you?
Speaker 5 (02:48):
I absolutely imagine.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
If you do, I'll just get you to pull that
microphone a bit closer to its you know, then well
then well there we go. I mean when did you
get one? Did you get one earlier?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Well?
Speaker 5 (02:57):
I did.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
I actually got one when I was about It was
about nineteen, and I may.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
Wow, yeah, quite quite early, quite early.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
But I made a will earlier because I hadn't had
some assets. And so in fact, a lot of young
people do have assets these days over eighteen. They keep
you save balances, for example.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I'd never thought of that. Actually that in its own
it's the first because I would argue that you should
have a will as soon as you reach sort of
the edge majority or whenever, because it simply is one
less awfully complex thing for your family to follow have
to follow up on in the event of a tragedy.
Wills clean things up because if it has to go
(03:39):
through intestacy. Is that the word yes, it is if
you're intestine, that's the word will ye. That I just
from my understanding of it from years ago and studying law,
is that that's just such a complex and painful process
for next to Kim.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
To go through.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Administration Act kicks in that in that case and going
back to the to the first point you make, eybody
should have a will. Everybody should have a will. Who
wants to have some degree of control, control over who's
going to minister their last instructions, a person who wants
to ensure how their how their body is treated once
(04:20):
they're once that's really important for a lot of people
who've got religious beliefs or particular beliefs that that's that's important.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Is that that's that's whole nest of my memory of
studying equity all those years is that that's a hard
one to nail in.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
It is because the executor ultimately has control over that.
But a lot of people will put in their world
that they want to be buried or that they want
to be cremated.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
It simplifies things for people, it does, and people.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Who go further and they say, well, I want my
ashes scattered here or scattered there, and there's legalities about that.
But but if you want to have control over your body,
then then that's important. If you want to have control
over who's going to get what, that's important. It's important
to have a will because those are your you know,
their last instructions that you leave on planet to a firm,
(05:14):
aren't they.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
It's funny, my mum, I seem to remember when she
passed away that she had a will, but she just
had a list of certain chattels that she expected to
go here and there. And that was simple enough because
we all got on well and it was just like, okay,
that's fine. It was not an issue. But you can
really go into a lot of detail because if you
(05:36):
don't actually have that specified in your will, it's sort
of a little bit make it up as we go along.
As long as everyone agrees, isn't.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
It well, if it requests well, you know, they should
describe the item adequately and to whom it should go.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I mean, if you have a will, but then you
attach a letter to it that's not executed, like yeah, yeah,
that's what she did. But because she knew I would.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
Want them, I would want the actual asset named and
a will as to who they're going to go to,
so that it's very clear. Yeah, I don't think any
any good lawyer would say to you, I'll just write
out a handwritten list and we'll just put it with
a will to make sure that they're doing their best
they can by their client and noting who gets what
(06:23):
in the in the world itself.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah. So, and have you amended yours over the years
or so?
Speaker 5 (06:31):
You should? You should?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Well, I'm not asking you to spill your guts on
there on all the personal details, but that's the other
thing people.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
You should update your wills on.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
You should at least look at your wills on a
regular basis. So as you know, I'm managing director of
New Zealand Family Trust Services and of course we hold
annual trustee meetings for our clients every year and one
of the things that we do is we say, let's
have a look at your will and your memory of wishes?
Is that all up to date? Is does that reflect
your current wishes? If you died today, would you be
(07:02):
happy with what's written in the will and what's written
in the memory wishes, which of course is the instructions
to the surviving trustees on how to deal with the
trust assets, whereas your will deals with everything that falls
into your personal state.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Where should you will be kept?
Speaker 6 (07:19):
Most solicitors will keep a copy of the world's but
if it's not going to be with your solicitor, then
it should be somewhere that's fairly prominent that somebody if
you've can to die, if somebody is going to find it,
we don't really want it buried, you know, in the
back garden ten feet under where where might be your
last resting place. But you know it's going to be
(07:41):
a hunting for the will.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Actually it's funny because I'm just I'm just realizing that
my wife would know where they are, probably probably, but
I've forgotten, And so I mean i'd know that if
I went and turved through a couple of cupboards, I'd
probably get to it eventually. That would be a stressful search.
When it comes to a copy of a will, then,
so does that mean an execut copy that is illegal
(08:07):
document its own right A You're just talking about a
photocopy of the document which sit somewhere else.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
Ultimately, we want the original, don't we. That's the that's
the very best because when you have a will that's
then got to be submitted to the High Court for pobate.
That that Pobats says to a certificate is a certificate
a piece of paper which says this is a valid will,
this is the last world, the valid will of the
(08:32):
will maker and now the executor. This grant gives the
executor the power to administer the assets that they need
to be the state as it needs to be.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
But in terms of the document itself, would people ever
execute and sign two copies or it's just only have
a one document executed and one copy taken? I mean,
how does that work? Because strictly speaking, the copy is
just evidence that it will exists, but without the original
copy where you at.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Yeah, well, applications can be made to the calls to
recognize that the guard But and I'm assuming that, I
mean I haven't done it myself, but I'm assuming that
the executor when they when they apply for the probait
would say, well, the you know, the last last one
testament of mister Smith we can't find, but we believe
this copy to be there, you know, the very last
(09:25):
representation of his will that he's made.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
So because they're also no it is. But there are
also people who decide to change their will in the
last few years and stuff, and legally you can actually don't.
I mean legally, so long as you tick the right boxes,
you don't necessarily need lawyer, might say, someone who's decided,
you know what, the grand piano in the lounge, you
can just say, I mean, I'm not recommending this, but legally,
(09:51):
if you decide, look the grand piano. I've decided I'm
amending my last will and got a still I am
out with the languages. The piano is to go to
to Dan, signed and witnessed by two people that would
change the will, wouldn't it well, but best to get
a lawyer or someone.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
Possibly it might change the world. And the only way
I say possibly is because these do it yourself will kits.
Oh yeah, well that's where we're alluding to you. They
just it terrifies me because it causes no end of trouble.
It's a lot of ambiguous language is used, Yeah, and
(10:32):
a lot of conflicting provisions are put in place, so
and that causes just time and energy and money that
your loved ones have to spend trying to solve.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
All of that.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Yeah, so we're going to talk about who should do
who should you should get to write a will, how
much it's going to cost you. You know, the choice
of executor is a big thing as well, because there
are some services who will say, look, we'll do you
well for nothing, and then they'll stick themselves as executor
and that's when they make their money. So we'll have
a chat about that because I know Janet will probably
have a few things to say about that. Let's take
(11:02):
your calls though, any questions you've got about wills or trust.
I mean, it's all, let's face it. I mean, I
think equity basically, the law of equity is the law
of wills and trusts. And let's take some calls, shall we.
Speaker 7 (11:13):
Frank Hello, Yeah, you know I've got one about wills
and trust Actually, I've got a I've got a situation
where there's a family holiday home that is half owned
by a family trust and half owned by individual family members.
(11:34):
Now the sole executor of the trust has passed away
and they're so, yeah, just as curious as to what
the situation is with regards to dissolving the trust. Or so,
there was a husband and husband and wife, little grandparents,
(11:56):
the grandfather's passed away, just a grandmother is alive now,
so she had she wasn't part of the trust. So yeah,
I'm just wondering how vulnerable we are. What would happen
if she would that property is still be able to
be sold and distributed, and particularly for the other family
(12:18):
members that have got the half, is it?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Oh, that's that's that You've started with a nice curve ball.
I can tell by Janet's expression, I think.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
It's all the one curve balls.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
That's what you reckon.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
My goodness that that does sound complicated and confoluted, doesn't it.
So first off, trust can indeed be they can be
built to an end, and that can happen under the
under the provisions of a trusted and it can also
have you know, can be completed under provisions of the
(12:50):
trust at twenty nineteen. But you'd have to read in
the first instance, you'd have to go to the trusteed
and actually see how that and how that was worded,
who the beneficiaries were, and work your way through that.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
What's the starting point for.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Frank, Well, you've got sense to me that there's a
there's a property that's owned in.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Half by a trust.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
So that's really all of the beneficiaries and the trust
that ultimately own that. You know it's going to invest
ultimately in the final beneficiaries, I guess. And then the
other half half a half of this property is and.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
That's out of your hands. It's just a question about
so the trust owns something. Are you so your beneficiary
of the trust that owns half the property half the property.
Speaker 7 (13:34):
Frank, I'm actually the family member that owns the half
of the holiday home.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
Well, I would think I would think ultimately that there's
going to have to be a big sit down and
a meeting of the minds because the trust that the
trustees on behalf of the beneficiaries are going to have
to engage. So, I mean, you can't cut a property
in half, can you? With a Chainsaw's going to somebody's
going to have to engage somewhere.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
What do you want to do with the property?
Speaker 7 (14:07):
Well, the property is not going to be sold until
the until their grandmother passes away. I mean that sort
of given it's a holiday home where she likes to
go and so that will always be maintained. But I
was wondering about when sort of when she passes that
the view was always that would be sold when when
both of the grandparents had passed, and so she's the
(14:29):
sole remaining one now. But where it's I suppose, yeah,
I was worried about the whole process. Was was the
fact that she wasn't on the on the trust as
a as a as part of part of the trust.
So now it's kind of sitting in limbo sort of
no one, Yeah, yeah, it wasn't true. We need to
(14:51):
sit down with the lay about the sound of it,
with the actual trust.
Speaker 6 (14:54):
The trustees will definitely have to be engaging with with
the beneficiaries.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
And I imagine I guess to you, Yeah, I guess
whether there's ten trust beneficiary, four, two or one. You're
in a way.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
He was the sole trustee. I think he was the
sole trustee.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Okay. Yeah. It's interesting in a way that the issue
is sort of simple but very complex. So from the
trust point of view, that's complex. But for Frank, he
owns half the property, that's right, and so he can
he can probably look at his issue in it as
if there's just someone else who owns the other half
and go with the law from that without having to
necessarily involve himself in the maschinations of trustees and beneficiaries fight.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
Absolutely, But if he wants to if he wants to
sell his half, yeah, example, then there's going to be
dialogue with the trustees, with.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
The trustees and not necessarily the beneficiaries. There's so many
questions that come out of this because if all the
beneficiaries want to sell the house, yes, what does that mean?
And if the trustee if they you know, what does
that mean for Frank?
Speaker 6 (16:01):
If all beneficiaries combine together. But it really wortant to
understand who the beneficiaries are, because a lot of the
time the trustees will state that the beneficiaries are I
don't know, the children and the children's children, and then
unborn children, and that now we're in a whole different
field now. So we might need, for example, the court
(16:23):
approval to manage a situation like that for unborn children,
for example.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
So if a trustee has passed away, what are the
mechanisms in place to appoint a new trustee?
Speaker 6 (16:35):
Well, if the trustees passed away, then probably another trustee
has been appointed in their place. Image and I mean
the trust has got to be run, so somebody must
be running the trust.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Did Frank say that did Frank say that somebody had passed?
Is there another trustee there? Frank, I'll just bring you
back on there while you're still on hold.
Speaker 7 (16:55):
You know, there's not. So there's no actual trustee at
the moment. So the grandfather was the soul.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Okay, and he's passed away. There's no trustee, and.
Speaker 7 (17:03):
Then he's passed away. It's on a bit of a
limbo's situation. And that was that was Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Okay, that's complicated. So what does happen we have to
move on some other causes thing, But what happens when
a trustee does pass away without anyone having popped in place?
Speaker 6 (17:20):
I suppose the beneficiaries could band together and have a
bit of a look who's going to be next in place?
I mean, has the appoint or who who puts something?
Takes out that the trustees also passed away?
Speaker 7 (17:33):
I no, I don't believe. So. So it was a
husband and wife's situation. The husband passed away, all I said,
then all that by the fault went through to the grandmother. Look,
there was there wasn't a lot of knowledge around between everybody, to.
Speaker 8 (17:50):
Be honest with you, okay, around it.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
I suppose we just need to think.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
You start, have to a few conversations have to be
had first, and then see where you go, because if
everyone's on the same page, it might make it a
bit easier to get the advice you need.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
And that's actually a really interesting point because often you
do find in trusts and estates that there's something's been
written down and the laws, you know, says this, and
then the beneficiaries buying together and they say, well, yes,
that might be how it is, but we're going to
do this. And I can think about my own mother's estate.
Then it was a particular way, and I looked at
(18:23):
it and thought, well, I do understand all of that,
but it just seemed a little bit unfair, and I
wanted it to be different from my brother and I.
So power was in my hands and I could actually
make that happen.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Because some people think, and I know, we've got to
go to a break. Some people think that because the
trust says you can't get this property until you're forty
years old or something. If you're the only beneficiary or fay,
you're there just two or three of you, and you
all want to get your hands on the property earlier.
Essentially you can you can't.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
You can bring the trust to an end, providing that
you are the only beneficiaries and all beneficiaries.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And so long as it's not and therefore the sons
and the grand convention children and all that. Yeah, fascinating conversation. Already,
think for the curve ball to start us off with Frank,
that's got the ball rolling. We'll be back in just
a moment. I'm with Janet Zucoa. She is the director
of New Zealand Family Trust Services. We're talking wills. Yes,
(19:30):
this is smart money with sim beverage with Janet Zakoa.
Sheould spell her name just in case you want to
look her up, zed u c c o A. Now
I'm now I'm spelling it. Sorry, x u c c
o Actually it's spelled in front of me, x u
c c o A. And I don't know why I
said z. I just it's x u c c o A.
She's director of New Zealand Family Trust Services. She's in
the studio with me. Now we're talking wills and trusts.
(19:52):
I guess I said yeah because it sounds like it's said.
And I'm an idiot, right, we're talking taking your calls
on wills and trusts Barry.
Speaker 8 (19:59):
Hello, Yes, hello, I'll keep it quick. Mom lefts me
a lot of money.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
Child.
Speaker 8 (20:05):
We're in probate. Executive is mum's husband, which I don't
talk to. How do I find out the stage of probate?
Do I need to wait for the lawyer to call me?
Or do I need to find the lawyer myself?
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Okay, so your mum has passed away, her husband is
is the executor and you don't have any contact with him.
So you'd like to follow up and where things are at.
Speaker 8 (20:30):
At the stage of probate. How do I find out?
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Sound a second, I'll just turn your microphone and study again.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Sorry, you would well, I know that sounds really obvious,
but I would probably call him or email them. I
know you just said you're not talking to him, but
but if you can't do that, then maybe a lawyer
on your behalf could do that. I mean, somebody needs
to get needs to actually know whether you are a
beneficiary of the will.
Speaker 8 (20:54):
And now, yeah, yeah, I am the only child. Mum
blatantly my whole life said do I've got to trust
they're waiting for me. But the thing is, I just
want will a lawyer call me? Or like someone in
contact with me.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
He's also got to know. He's also got to know
how to contact you, hasn't he?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
So have you got his fund number?
Speaker 8 (21:12):
Yeah, he's got my details.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
I would.
Speaker 8 (21:15):
He's a great guy.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
I would. I just found it.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Oh, so he's a good guy. So you don't even
festal difficulty.
Speaker 8 (21:22):
Well, I just don't. Well I kind of don't believe
something like I don't know if he'll tell me the
honest truth on where what stage we're at?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Oh, well, I think I mean, you've got to have
your conversation. Well, you've got to have the conversation first.
That's interesting.
Speaker 9 (21:37):
I would.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I think he would just pick up.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
Do I have to keep on calling him to find
out when I'm getting my trust fund? Or do I waitress,
is a lawyer going to be calling me saying? Are
you coming to the office and do the paperwork?
Speaker 10 (21:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:50):
Well, I would have thought that if the lawyer has
got copies of all the documents and got copies of
your contact details, that he that he or she would
wing you.
Speaker 8 (21:59):
I mean I don't contact me.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
Yeah, most would, But but if they don't contact you,
then I would I would contact them. I mean, I
know you've just said that your mother always said that
you had trust money.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
Coming even even's husband.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
I know, But unless you've actually seen a document to that,
to that.
Speaker 8 (22:19):
How can I find how can I?
Speaker 5 (22:22):
I would ring, I'd bring the lawyer.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
How long ago? How long is this that your mom
passed away?
Speaker 8 (22:28):
Eight week?
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Yeah, yeah, it's fairly new. And can do answers with that?
I know it can be very difficult from has experienced
losing losing your mother and the last thing you want
to deal with is, as you know, the the stress, yes,
the stress of dealing with money and assets. But I would,
I would, I would find for it, and I would
(22:52):
bring the lawyer. I don't know lawyers that that lie.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
Okay, I'm sorry, Sorry, Sorry, you got me wrong. I'm
not talking about the lawyer. I'm talking about mom's husband.
Keep me in the darkness. You think we do not
really get on.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, okay, but you've said he's a good guy. I
mean he's not.
Speaker 8 (23:09):
A good guy, but we sort of we've always sort of.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Like, okay, we've clashed a bit. I would, Yeah, I
think you're going to have to pick up the phone
barrier and ask if he's got a lawyer. Dealing with things,
and if you can talk to them and just start
the conversation. And because at the moment you're dancing in
the dark.
Speaker 8 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. And I don't know if
you'll tell me where like the lawyer, what the lawyer is,
So how do I find like if he just to
say with scenario, he just doesn't want me to If.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
He doesn't want you to contact the lawyer, I won't
tell you, Okay, Is there a way of finding out who's.
Speaker 6 (23:43):
Well, yeah, it's not like we've got we've got like
a world data bank where we're lodger withvel walls when
you just go look them up like a company, for example,
company's office. But I would in the first instance have
a chat to him, and if that doesn't work, I
would certainly involve a lawyer. And most people when they
get a letter from a lawyer saying, hey, we're acting
for such and such and we're trying to find out
(24:03):
details here, they're usually pretty forthcoming.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, so I think we've got too. If I could summarize,
we've got two courses of action. First, pick up the
phone and call call your mum's partner, the executor. And
if you do, and hopefully that will be the end
of the story and he will give you the contact
and if he is not forthcoming, then you need to
(24:26):
talk to someone else, like a lawyer, to get in
touch and follow that up. Yeah, I think that I'm
hoping that it'll sort itself out for your Barry, and
because it is a stressful thing to be going through.
But I'm thinking at the moment you've got there's too
many unknowns and you're just you will worry unnecessarily. Just
(24:47):
pick up the phone.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
And I know you said that you haven't always sent
eye to eye, but just like you, you've lost your mother,
he's lost his partner and he's probably reeling a bit
as well, you know.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yeah, that's a good point, Janet, thank you for that.
Thanks for your call, Barry. I hope that's of some
help to you. Let me just check the time. Let's
go to gosh. Time is flying by it. I think
it's because Maria at first caller throw a such curve
boar Jane, Hello.
Speaker 10 (25:14):
Hi there, Hi guys, Hi Dan, I'm gosh. It's likes
the g the junction. Trying to understand wish in New Zealand,
trust in New Zealand. That's just a quod question. Honest
to God, my head is just bamboozled. Now, if the
settler and one of the trustees are both deceased of
a family trust, how easy is it for the remaining
trustees basically to wrap it up if there was a
(25:39):
success if there wasn't a success of trustee named in
the sense of that success of trustee could completely take over.
I'm just trying to ascertain, basically, can deeds, original deeds
be completely wiped out because of the original settler who
wrote said deeds is defeased.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
No, So what usually happens in New Zealand is And
of course it does depend on the terms of the
of the trust deed. But usually usually once a settler
has settled a trust in New Zealand, they almost step aside,
although as I say, there are there can be provisions
in a trust deed which says you can't do such
(26:18):
and such without a settlersply written consent. So usually they
step aside and then the trustees the trustees are in
the power seat. Can the trust be brought to an end?
Usually under the trusted provisions you can bring a trust
to an end, or if that doesn't. If the trustee
provisions won't permit that, you can apply to the courts
(26:39):
under the Trust Act twenty nineteenth bit easier. Now, the
legislation does permit an application to the court to bring
trust to an end as well.
Speaker 10 (26:50):
Okay, but those original beneficiaries of that said trust originally
set up must always be kept in the loop, surely, Well.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
It depends what type of beneficiaries they are. If they're
discretionary beneficiaries, they're entitled.
Speaker 10 (27:05):
They're named name beneficiaries and the original deed.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Yes, that's not that's that's sort of not really here
or there. So discretion of beneficiaries are beneficiaries of objectives
that that trustees must consider, not necessarily got to treat
equally or bestirring them, but they must consider fixed beneficiaries
(27:29):
are actually entitled to something, so whereas discretion of beneficiaries
are merely entitled to be considered. So, whether they've been
named or not, I mean a lot of a lot
of beneficiaries and trustees, especially old trustees, are not named.
It's it's the children of or the grandchildren, or the
widow or widow or the unborn children, so that they're
not named at all.
Speaker 10 (27:50):
But yeah, now a young adult is specifically named.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
That doesn't mean that they're not a discretion of beneficiary.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Now, so what's the difference. What makes some of the
discretionary beneficiary.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
Well, they trustees will have the discretion to bestow capital
and income on them. So if they're a discretionary beneficiary,
then the trustees all the power will he rest in
the trustees hands to whether they'll exercise their discretion and
actually give the.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Benefit sort of wording is used to make someone fixed
beneficiary rather than discretion.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
It will actually it will actually say they're absolutely entitled.
So the provisions of the trustee will make it very
clear that they're entitled.
Speaker 10 (28:28):
So you need to check the wording of that entitled
jealous is that we're looking for.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Yeah, it weren't necessarily entitled.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
There will be very very direct wording noting that they
are fixed.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah, okay, gosh it is I didn't realize that. So funny.
Why would someone have a discretionary beneficiary.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
Most of our trusts, and really most trusts in New
Zealand are discretionary.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
The trustees the trustees discretion.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Right is that because the trustee is the can you
be the setler and trustee.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
You can settler trustee, so like I'm.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Setting up a trust and I might chang oh, I
see god, it does get complicated if you've got any questions.
So we've got a full border calls. I've just got
a couple of quick questions before we go to the break.
How long does probate take? Is there a minimum time
for probate?
Speaker 6 (29:19):
And know there isn't and it can, indeed depend on
how complex the actual will is, So it could be
you know, it could be sort of. I think back
in twenty twenty four we were looking at somewhere from
eight weeks plus. But you know, I've heard of probate
taking a couple of years. So it depends on how
complicated the will is. That's one of the reasons why
people have trust because the world just deals with you know,
(29:42):
basic chattels and the smaller stuff, and everything gets pushed
into the trust and then the trustees work from the
membran and wishes and don't need to go to the
High Court or wait for probate to be granted by
the hype.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Okay, it does. A will need to be made up
by a solicitor or of by a couple using AI
and a witness. Yes, there we go, well, AI actually
and two witnesses.
Speaker 6 (30:04):
First, So, first off, the will must comply with the
will's Act. And yes, I suppose anybody could make a will.
You could go and buy a will kit. You could
just sit down on the dining room table and start
writing out your last will and testament.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
But I'm a sean.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
Believer in using lawyers because then it's more certain you've
got certainty around what the will actually says, who's made
the will, how the world's going to be carried out.
Lawyers are going to want to see you sign the
will in front of them so that it's executed correctly
and complies with the will's act.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yeah, what happens if someone Okay, I can answer this question,
even though I'll hand it to Janet. What happens if
a person dies while their will is being amended? Are
the amendments valid? And it's from Pete and my answer,
and Janet can tell me if it's right. If it
hasn't been signed, it's not valid. Would that be right?
Speaker 5 (30:58):
At first? Blush?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
I could be wrong.
Speaker 6 (31:04):
And so if it's an amendment, one assumes that there's
an original will in place, and that would take precedent,
and then the amendments. I guess, really, is it going
to be just a code of cell and add.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
On to it? It would be have to sign and.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
It would However, I would expect that whoever was taking
those instructions, Let's say there's a valid will in place,
and then I wander off to this list and say
I've got a will in place, but I'd just like
to add in a couple of extra things or make
a couple of amendments. Then that solicitor would say, well, fine,
let's take some instructions, and then they get to it
and then I die, I don't know in the next
(31:41):
forty eight hours. Then that solicitor could you know, he
could file an after David and say, well, I met
Janet and she was a full mental capacity and she
gave me these instructions, but unfortunately she died beforehand. And
that leads a good point. Most solicitors, when they're drafting wills,
they're not going to take your instructions today and then
(32:03):
get back to you in three months time. They're usually
pretty quick off the mark when they've been given instructions
to prepare.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah, well, and it would depend on the language of
the instructions, like I'm thinking of changing my will, can
you draft up an amendment so I give the house
to Billy and be like yeah, as opposed to I've
made up my.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Mind absolutely yeah.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
So and that would come out in the affid day
that the solicita would actually be talking to me when
I'm having conversation with him about my what my thoughts
are and what I want to do. So he or
she would then be able to be very clear in
the AFFID David, this right where my mind was out
and what my intention was.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Okay, right, Gosh, we've got a truckload of calls. We're
going to do our best to get them to you
as quickly as possible. If you do have a long
story while you're on hold, just think about how you
can give us your question in a nutshell because we've
time as short, but no doubt we'll be hopefully seeing
Janet again too, because it's never a shortage of conversation
on this one. It's eighteen minutes to six news talk
(33:00):
so be I'm with Janet Zaka. She's director of New
Zealand Family Trust Services, talking questions around trusts and wills.
I'll tell you what, we could probably do a three
hour show on this the number of queries we've had
come in. But we'll see if we can get through
a few more quick calls. Brian, Hello, Hello.
Speaker 10 (33:16):
I'm just bringing up about what I would like to
know is.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
A pickful trust? Are they pretty good?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
What trust are perpetual trustees?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (33:29):
Difficult to comment on other trust services because she is
with New Zealand Family Trust Services, But and it would
be it.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
Would really be very unprofessional of me.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Trust company is there and having it with the lawyers
or not.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Well, we've got we've got a couple of few trustee
companies and they're set up under statute here, so perpetual
perpetual trustee run for trustee services as well as as
well as security services like the commercial the commercial side
of their business.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I think I think Brian, it's with just making some
inquiries as too, because a lot of it can get
to the stage where you're looking at wills and trusts
and there are some companies that which all do wills
for nothing. I think the Public Trust is one, and
I will comment that I've just heard that that might
be fine, but they charge an arm in the league
as the administrator, So it's worth checking out. If you've
got a will you're setting up, you need to know
(34:24):
what the fees going down the track would be. And
that's a fair comment without us talking about any you know, competitive.
Speaker 6 (34:30):
Rate if we just think that though nothing's for nothing
in life, right, I mean, a company can't exist if
it does everything for nothing. So somewhere along the line,
someone's going to pay the pie.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Are there are there is this someone where you can
actually go online, you know how you can go to
interest stock, current ins in look at the different banks
interest rates. Is there an online service or some sort
of point of reference where you can look at the
fees that are charged by different trust and will administering companies.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
Possibly.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
I mean I've not done that myself for the simple
reason that we charge on you know, we charge our
hourly on what what we're doing. And some wills can
be very quick and they're very simple, and others can
be really complex and take an awful lot of time.
So but I don't think that it's unfair to actually,
before you, before you engage for somebody to draft a will,
(35:19):
to say to them, well, could you please tell me
how much this is going to cost.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Can you give me a bit of an estimate?
Speaker 6 (35:24):
And if they say what's for nothing, then say, well, ultimately,
how do you make your money? Will you draft me
or will not be involved in it whatsoever when it
comes down to administering that will at the end of it,
And I just walk out of here with a completely
free will. I mean, that's a fair question, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
And they'll probably say, and we put ourselves in their
executor as executor. Really, you're really naughty getting to draft
the will. Then just cross out the bits. No, don't
do that, don't do that. Don't listen to me for advice. Sorry,
I'm just being mischievous. Umm, just have the conversation with
someone I think is the advice about what the charges
(36:02):
will be John, Hello, Low.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Two matters. The first one the guy who wanted to
find out what was in the will. All you've got
to do is go online, get into the district court
thing and make an application for a copy of the will.
And you can only get it once probates being filed.
But there is a form that you can sell an online.
You put in your details, you put in your relationship
(36:27):
to the deceased, and away you.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Go on being granted.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yes, yeah, you get it quite well. When probate's been granted,
that's when the will is filed in the district court
and available for anyone to get a copy of it,
as long as you've got some valid reason for doing it.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Have you done that yourself? John? How to do it?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I've done it.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
How quickly did you get the information you're after the
copy of the will? Was it pretty quick?
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Well? Pretty quick? Yeah, once probate was filed.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
How much did it cost you?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
I can't remember.
Speaker 5 (37:00):
Did you have to.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Not like? Not like if you're dealing with the public trust,
because has been said on this program, the public trust
take a percentage, and I think it could be around
five percent, And if you've got an estate that might
have a lot of investments, cash and all this sort
of thing, and add up to her knight.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
I've heard it could be as much as ten percent.
So yeah, not wanted to stick in the public trust.
But I don't think of anyone who said, oh, the
cheapest chaps.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
The other matter was that with regard to amending a will,
there was a recent case that was reported where the
judge turned around and said, quite clearly the lady intended
to change her will. She died before she could sign
it because her lawyer had all his instructions but he
hadn't drawn it all up. Great stuff, that's except it all.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
That's what that's what you were alluding to, Janet. So hey,
thanks for that. John. We need to take a quick moment.
We'll be back in the tickets ten to six. Yes,
newstalk so a b Tim Bevera John with Janet Zika.
She's with the New Zealand Family Trust Services by the way,
so if you have any questions, you want to follow
up professionally with Janet in Z Family Trusts dot code
on z in Z Family Trusts dot co dot n
(38:14):
Z Lucky. Last caller Gordon High Yeah.
Speaker 9 (38:18):
Good here you are good.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
What's up?
Speaker 9 (38:20):
Excellent? So this is regarding what sort of will I'm
gonna have the relationship for about twenty five years of
the teenage daughter. And I know Janet was saying that
she wasn't too fast on the online wills. But that's
a basic will? Is that a k or what were
the big faux pas that she saw?
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Well that's the interesting thing, isn't it. So your idea
of basic and somebody else's might be quite different.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
And even if it is.
Speaker 6 (38:47):
Basically, if you use biguous language, conflicting provisions, then you
just open up that will to challenges, to lengthy delays.
Basically it's snite me to administer.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
And so all of the other things that are written.
Speaker 6 (39:05):
Yeah, all I would say is do your beneficiaries a favor,
do your daughter a favor, and go pay some money
and get get a will actually written by a lawyer
who knows the right wording to use and get it done.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
It's not funny that this has nothing to do with
what you've said, Gordon, But I think sometimes people you
know you think, imagine image. I don't know how much
a cost to get a will written. If you're just
paying by the hour, maybe a couple of hours of
time all to be four or five hundred bucks might
be cheaper, I don't know. So it's an amazing that
people will think nothing about going down to your local
appliant store and getting a new TV and going oh,
(39:40):
three grand, that's a bargain. And yet when it comes
to dealing with how your assets are administered after you die,
which is really important to you, you've boke got a
few hundred bucks, and I don't want to trivialize life's expensive,
but I think it's worth thinking about what else do
you spend. You know, you booked some tickets in their
New Zealand to go down to Coeenstown for a couple
of weeks.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
Well, it's also worth considering that ultimately, what you're trying
to do is ease the recipient pain. They're already in
pain if you've done your job as a decent human
being on this planet, and what you want to do
is you want to try and take the stress off
of them by taking out the woe of finances and
administering assets.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
And the law does provide for if you are and tested,
but it's a very painful process. And don't assume that
IFI diets then my husband's just going to get everything
with them. You never know who's going to get. The
law does spell out, but for instance, somebody said, with
about thirty seconds to go, if the husband and wife
have no will, do all assets just go to the
surviving partner. Do children get a share?
Speaker 6 (40:39):
Well, there's a whole formula set down under the Administration Act,
but as you can imagine, that's very much open to challenge.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
Thanks so much, Janet Gosh, we could have talked for
another hour or two easily for having me Ta. Great
for you, Great to see you again in zidfamily trusts
dot cot at NZ and we'll be back at the
same time next weekend thanks to my producer tyra Ward
and Sunday at six is next. If you missed the
anything of this hour, you can go back and listen
on the News Talk SIPP website. Just look for the
Weekend Collective and we'll catch you next time.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
You know.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks it Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
SED Be.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Jesus sure.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
N.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I wanna be nowhere here with you. I wanna be
one in this space. I'm gonna be tangled and banish
your cloud. I'm gonna be close to your face tomorrow
and wait time in this place. The sun is away.
(00:48):
I don't what they say. We can do it away
in the cloud Chester again.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yes, welcome back, this says or welcome if you've just
joined us week In Collective. I say that every hour.
I've gotta stop saying that and being repetitive. Anyway. This
is I'm Tim Beverige, and this is smart money. We
want your cause on our one hundred eighty ten. And
the conversation today is around wills, and you know the
associated trust sometimes get tied and too sometimes trust get
(01:14):
created out of a will, I guess. But what are
some of the wills? Are some of the sort of well,
you've got to have one. You really should have a will.
And sometimes it seem like one of the most painstaking
things you can do as an adult. Maybe it's because
it reminds you of your mortality. I'm trying to remember
when I actually did my will, whether I was because
I'd got married and I thought I should have a will.
(01:35):
I probably should have had one before that, but there
was the motivation for me and my wife to get
a will so we could basically count each other and
to whatever we had and whatever children would come out
of our marriage. But it is one of those things. Yeah,
they sometimes remind you of your mortality, and that's one
of the reasons people put it off. But they've got
(01:56):
to be done. And so we're going to have a
chat about whether you can write an airtight will because
the courts off and will challenge things. It's not necessarily
possible to write someone out of a will. If you've
got children, for instance, it's very difficult to write someone out.
Even just saying that Sun A will get more than
son B or daughter C can be have its challenges
(02:19):
as well. And so we're gonna chat about wills. We'd
love your calls on I eight hundred eighty ten and
eighty text nine two nine two and joining me to
discuss it. She is director of New Zealand Family Trust Services,
So if you've got any questions around trust, because that's
always a vexed issue as well, isn't it. You can
give us a call on eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty and her name is Janet Ziccoa and she's with
(02:41):
me now. Janet, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 5 (02:43):
Hello there? I'm fine, Thank you very much, excellent.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Um you've got a will? I imagine, have you?
Speaker 5 (02:48):
I absolutely imagine.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
If you do, I'll just get you to pull that
microphone a bit closer to its you know, then well
then well there we go. I mean when did you
get one? Did you get one earlier?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Well?
Speaker 5 (02:57):
I did.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
I actually got one when I was about It was
about nineteen, and I may.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
Wow, yeah, quite quite early, quite early.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
But I made a will earlier because I hadn't had
some assets. And so in fact, a lot of young
people do have assets these days over eighteen. They keep
you save balances, for example.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I'd never thought of that. Actually that in its own
it's the first because I would argue that you should
have a will as soon as you reach sort of
the edge majority or whenever, because it simply is one
less awfully complex thing for your family to follow have
to follow up on in the event of a tragedy.
Wills clean things up because if it has to go
(03:39):
through intestacy. Is that the word yes, it is if
you're intestine, that's the word will ye. That I just
from my understanding of it from years ago and studying law,
is that that's just such a complex and painful process
for next to Kim.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
To go through.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Administration Act kicks in that in that case and going
back to the to the first point you make, eybody
should have a will. Everybody should have a will. Who
wants to have some degree of control, control over who's
going to minister their last instructions, a person who wants
to ensure how their how their body is treated once
(04:20):
they're once that's really important for a lot of people
who've got religious beliefs or particular beliefs that that's that's important.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Is that that's that's whole nest of my memory of
studying equity all those years is that that's a hard
one to nail in.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
It is because the executor ultimately has control over that.
But a lot of people will put in their world
that they want to be buried or that they want
to be cremated.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
It simplifies things for people, it does, and people.
Speaker 6 (04:53):
Who go further and they say, well, I want my
ashes scattered here or scattered there, and there's legalities about that.
But but if you want to have control over your body,
then then that's important. If you want to have control
over who's going to get what, that's important. It's important
to have a will because those are your you know,
their last instructions that you leave on planet to a firm,
(05:14):
aren't they.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
It's funny, my mum, I seem to remember when she
passed away that she had a will, but she just
had a list of certain chattels that she expected to
go here and there. And that was simple enough because
we all got on well and it was just like, okay,
that's fine. It was not an issue. But you can
really go into a lot of detail because if you
(05:36):
don't actually have that specified in your will, it's sort
of a little bit make it up as we go along.
As long as everyone agrees, isn't.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
It well, if it requests well, you know, they should
describe the item adequately and to whom it should go.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I mean, if you have a will, but then you
attach a letter to it that's not executed, like yeah, yeah,
that's what she did. But because she knew I would.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
Want them, I would want the actual asset named and
a will as to who they're going to go to,
so that it's very clear. Yeah, I don't think any
any good lawyer would say to you, I'll just write
out a handwritten list and we'll just put it with
a will to make sure that they're doing their best
they can by their client and noting who gets what
(06:23):
in the in the world itself.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah. So, and have you amended yours over the years
or so?
Speaker 5 (06:31):
You should? You should?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Well, I'm not asking you to spill your guts on
there on all the personal details, but that's the other
thing people.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
You should update your wills on.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
You should at least look at your wills on a
regular basis. So as you know, I'm managing director of
New Zealand Family Trust Services and of course we hold
annual trustee meetings for our clients every year and one
of the things that we do is we say, let's
have a look at your will and your memory of wishes?
Is that all up to date? Is does that reflect
your current wishes? If you died today, would you be
(07:02):
happy with what's written in the will and what's written
in the memory wishes, which of course is the instructions
to the surviving trustees on how to deal with the
trust assets, whereas your will deals with everything that falls
into your personal state.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Where should you will be kept?
Speaker 6 (07:19):
Most solicitors will keep a copy of the world's but
if it's not going to be with your solicitor, then
it should be somewhere that's fairly prominent that somebody if
you've can to die, if somebody is going to find it,
we don't really want it buried, you know, in the
back garden ten feet under where where might be your
last resting place. But you know it's going to be
(07:41):
a hunting for the will.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Actually it's funny because I'm just I'm just realizing that
my wife would know where they are, probably probably, but
I've forgotten, And so I mean i'd know that if
I went and turved through a couple of cupboards, I'd
probably get to it eventually. That would be a stressful search.
When it comes to a copy of a will, then,
so does that mean an execut copy that is illegal
(08:07):
document its own right A You're just talking about a
photocopy of the document which sit somewhere else.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
Ultimately, we want the original, don't we. That's the that's
the very best because when you have a will that's
then got to be submitted to the High Court for pobate.
That that Pobats says to a certificate is a certificate
a piece of paper which says this is a valid will,
this is the last world, the valid will of the
(08:32):
will maker and now the executor. This grant gives the
executor the power to administer the assets that they need
to be the state as it needs to be.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
But in terms of the document itself, would people ever
execute and sign two copies or it's just only have
a one document executed and one copy taken? I mean,
how does that work? Because strictly speaking, the copy is
just evidence that it will exists, but without the original
copy where you at.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Yeah, well, applications can be made to the calls to
recognize that the guard But and I'm assuming that, I
mean I haven't done it myself, but I'm assuming that
the executor when they when they apply for the probait
would say, well, the you know, the last last one
testament of mister Smith we can't find, but we believe
this copy to be there, you know, the very last
(09:25):
representation of his will that he's made.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
So because they're also no it is. But there are
also people who decide to change their will in the
last few years and stuff, and legally you can actually don't.
I mean legally, so long as you tick the right boxes,
you don't necessarily need lawyer, might say, someone who's decided,
you know what, the grand piano in the lounge, you
can just say, I mean, I'm not recommending this, but legally,
(09:51):
if you decide, look the grand piano. I've decided I'm
amending my last will and got a still I am
out with the languages. The piano is to go to
to Dan, signed and witnessed by two people that would
change the will, wouldn't it well, but best to get
a lawyer or someone.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
Possibly it might change the world. And the only way
I say possibly is because these do it yourself will kits.
Oh yeah, well that's where we're alluding to you. They
just it terrifies me because it causes no end of trouble.
It's a lot of ambiguous language is used, Yeah, and
(10:32):
a lot of conflicting provisions are put in place, so
and that causes just time and energy and money that
your loved ones have to spend trying to solve.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
All of that.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Yeah, so we're going to talk about who should do
who should you should get to write a will, how
much it's going to cost you. You know, the choice
of executor is a big thing as well, because there
are some services who will say, look, we'll do you
well for nothing, and then they'll stick themselves as executor
and that's when they make their money. So we'll have
a chat about that because I know Janet will probably
have a few things to say about that. Let's take
(11:02):
your calls though, any questions you've got about wills or trust.
I mean, it's all, let's face it. I mean, I
think equity basically, the law of equity is the law
of wills and trusts. And let's take some calls, shall we.
Speaker 7 (11:13):
Frank Hello, Yeah, you know I've got one about wills
and trust Actually, I've got a I've got a situation
where there's a family holiday home that is half owned
by a family trust and half owned by individual family members.
(11:34):
Now the sole executor of the trust has passed away
and they're so, yeah, just as curious as to what
the situation is with regards to dissolving the trust. Or so,
there was a husband and husband and wife, little grandparents,
(11:56):
the grandfather's passed away, just a grandmother is alive now,
so she had she wasn't part of the trust. So yeah,
I'm just wondering how vulnerable we are. What would happen
if she would that property is still be able to
be sold and distributed, and particularly for the other family
(12:18):
members that have got the half, is it?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Oh, that's that's that You've started with a nice curve ball.
I can tell by Janet's expression, I think.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
It's all the one curve balls.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
That's what you reckon.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
My goodness that that does sound complicated and confoluted, doesn't it.
So first off, trust can indeed be they can be
built to an end, and that can happen under the
under the provisions of a trusted and it can also
have you know, can be completed under provisions of the
(12:50):
trust at twenty nineteen. But you'd have to read in
the first instance, you'd have to go to the trusteed
and actually see how that and how that was worded,
who the beneficiaries were, and work your way through that.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
What's the starting point for.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Frank, Well, you've got sense to me that there's a
there's a property that's owned in.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Half by a trust.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
So that's really all of the beneficiaries and the trust
that ultimately own that. You know it's going to invest
ultimately in the final beneficiaries, I guess. And then the
other half half a half of this property is and.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
That's out of your hands. It's just a question about
so the trust owns something. Are you so your beneficiary
of the trust that owns half the property half the property.
Speaker 7 (13:34):
Frank, I'm actually the family member that owns the half
of the holiday home.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
Well, I would think I would think ultimately that there's
going to have to be a big sit down and
a meeting of the minds because the trust that the
trustees on behalf of the beneficiaries are going to have
to engage. So, I mean, you can't cut a property
in half, can you? With a Chainsaw's going to somebody's
going to have to engage somewhere.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
What do you want to do with the property?
Speaker 7 (14:07):
Well, the property is not going to be sold until
the until their grandmother passes away. I mean that sort
of given it's a holiday home where she likes to
go and so that will always be maintained. But I
was wondering about when sort of when she passes that
the view was always that would be sold when when
both of the grandparents had passed, and so she's the
(14:29):
sole remaining one now. But where it's I suppose, yeah,
I was worried about the whole process. Was was the
fact that she wasn't on the on the trust as
a as a as part of part of the trust.
So now it's kind of sitting in limbo sort of
no one, Yeah, yeah, it wasn't true. We need to
(14:51):
sit down with the lay about the sound of it,
with the actual trust.
Speaker 6 (14:54):
The trustees will definitely have to be engaging with with
the beneficiaries.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
And I imagine I guess to you, Yeah, I guess
whether there's ten trust beneficiary, four, two or one. You're
in a way.
Speaker 7 (15:10):
He was the sole trustee. I think he was the
sole trustee.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Okay. Yeah. It's interesting in a way that the issue
is sort of simple but very complex. So from the
trust point of view, that's complex. But for Frank, he
owns half the property, that's right, and so he can
he can probably look at his issue in it as
if there's just someone else who owns the other half
and go with the law from that without having to
necessarily involve himself in the maschinations of trustees and beneficiaries fight.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
Absolutely, But if he wants to if he wants to
sell his half, yeah, example, then there's going to be
dialogue with the trustees, with.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
The trustees and not necessarily the beneficiaries. There's so many
questions that come out of this because if all the
beneficiaries want to sell the house, yes, what does that mean?
And if the trustee if they you know, what does
that mean for Frank?
Speaker 6 (16:01):
If all beneficiaries combine together. But it really wortant to
understand who the beneficiaries are, because a lot of the
time the trustees will state that the beneficiaries are I
don't know, the children and the children's children, and then
unborn children, and that now we're in a whole different
field now. So we might need, for example, the court
(16:23):
approval to manage a situation like that for unborn children,
for example.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
So if a trustee has passed away, what are the
mechanisms in place to appoint a new trustee?
Speaker 6 (16:35):
Well, if the trustees passed away, then probably another trustee
has been appointed in their place. Image and I mean
the trust has got to be run, so somebody must
be running the trust.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Did Frank say that did Frank say that somebody had passed?
Is there another trustee there? Frank, I'll just bring you
back on there while you're still on hold.
Speaker 7 (16:55):
You know, there's not. So there's no actual trustee at
the moment. So the grandfather was the soul.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Okay, and he's passed away. There's no trustee, and.
Speaker 7 (17:03):
Then he's passed away. It's on a bit of a
limbo's situation. And that was that was Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Okay, that's complicated. So what does happen we have to
move on some other causes thing, But what happens when
a trustee does pass away without anyone having popped in place?
Speaker 6 (17:20):
I suppose the beneficiaries could band together and have a
bit of a look who's going to be next in place?
I mean, has the appoint or who who puts something?
Takes out that the trustees also passed away?
Speaker 7 (17:33):
I no, I don't believe. So. So it was a
husband and wife's situation. The husband passed away, all I said,
then all that by the fault went through to the grandmother. Look,
there was there wasn't a lot of knowledge around between everybody, to.
Speaker 8 (17:50):
Be honest with you, okay, around it.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
I suppose we just need to think.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
You start, have to a few conversations have to be
had first, and then see where you go, because if
everyone's on the same page, it might make it a
bit easier to get the advice you need.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
And that's actually a really interesting point because often you
do find in trusts and estates that there's something's been
written down and the laws, you know, says this, and
then the beneficiaries buying together and they say, well, yes,
that might be how it is, but we're going to
do this. And I can think about my own mother's estate.
Then it was a particular way, and I looked at
(18:23):
it and thought, well, I do understand all of that,
but it just seemed a little bit unfair, and I
wanted it to be different from my brother and I.
So power was in my hands and I could actually
make that happen.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Because some people think, and I know, we've got to
go to a break. Some people think that because the
trust says you can't get this property until you're forty
years old or something. If you're the only beneficiary or fay,
you're there just two or three of you, and you
all want to get your hands on the property earlier.
Essentially you can you can't.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
You can bring the trust to an end, providing that
you are the only beneficiaries and all beneficiaries.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And so long as it's not and therefore the sons
and the grand convention children and all that. Yeah, fascinating conversation. Already,
think for the curve ball to start us off with Frank,
that's got the ball rolling. We'll be back in just
a moment. I'm with Janet Zucoa. She is the director
of New Zealand Family Trust Services. We're talking wills. Yes,
(19:30):
this is smart money with sim beverage with Janet Zakoa.
Sheould spell her name just in case you want to
look her up, zed u c c o A. Now
I'm now I'm spelling it. Sorry, x u c c
o Actually it's spelled in front of me, x u
c c o A. And I don't know why I
said z. I just it's x u c c o A.
She's director of New Zealand Family Trust Services. She's in
the studio with me. Now we're talking wills and trusts.
(19:52):
I guess I said yeah because it sounds like it's said.
And I'm an idiot, right, we're talking taking your calls
on wills and trusts Barry.
Speaker 8 (19:59):
Hello, Yes, hello, I'll keep it quick. Mom lefts me
a lot of money.
Speaker 7 (20:05):
Child.
Speaker 8 (20:05):
We're in probate. Executive is mum's husband, which I don't
talk to. How do I find out the stage of probate?
Do I need to wait for the lawyer to call me?
Or do I need to find the lawyer myself?
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Okay, so your mum has passed away, her husband is
is the executor and you don't have any contact with him.
So you'd like to follow up and where things are at.
Speaker 8 (20:30):
At the stage of probate. How do I find out?
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Sound a second, I'll just turn your microphone and study again.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Sorry, you would well, I know that sounds really obvious,
but I would probably call him or email them. I
know you just said you're not talking to him, but
but if you can't do that, then maybe a lawyer
on your behalf could do that. I mean, somebody needs
to get needs to actually know whether you are a
beneficiary of the will.
Speaker 8 (20:54):
And now, yeah, yeah, I am the only child. Mum
blatantly my whole life said do I've got to trust
they're waiting for me. But the thing is, I just
want will a lawyer call me? Or like someone in
contact with me.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
He's also got to know. He's also got to know
how to contact you, hasn't he?
Speaker 4 (21:10):
So have you got his fund number?
Speaker 8 (21:12):
Yeah, he's got my details.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
I would.
Speaker 8 (21:15):
He's a great guy.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
I would. I just found it.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Oh, so he's a good guy. So you don't even
festal difficulty.
Speaker 8 (21:22):
Well, I just don't. Well I kind of don't believe
something like I don't know if he'll tell me the
honest truth on where what stage we're at?
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Oh, well, I think I mean, you've got to have
your conversation. Well, you've got to have the conversation first.
That's interesting.
Speaker 9 (21:37):
I would.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
I think he would just pick up.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
Do I have to keep on calling him to find
out when I'm getting my trust fund? Or do I waitress,
is a lawyer going to be calling me saying? Are
you coming to the office and do the paperwork?
Speaker 10 (21:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:50):
Well, I would have thought that if the lawyer has
got copies of all the documents and got copies of
your contact details, that he that he or she would
wing you.
Speaker 8 (21:59):
I mean I don't contact me.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
Yeah, most would, But but if they don't contact you,
then I would I would contact them. I mean, I
know you've just said that your mother always said that
you had trust money.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
Coming even even's husband.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
I know, But unless you've actually seen a document to that,
to that.
Speaker 8 (22:19):
How can I find how can I?
Speaker 5 (22:22):
I would ring, I'd bring the lawyer.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
How long ago? How long is this that your mom
passed away?
Speaker 8 (22:28):
Eight week?
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Yeah, yeah, it's fairly new. And can do answers with that?
I know it can be very difficult from has experienced
losing losing your mother and the last thing you want
to deal with is, as you know, the the stress, yes,
the stress of dealing with money and assets. But I would,
I would, I would find for it, and I would
(22:52):
bring the lawyer. I don't know lawyers that that lie.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
Okay, I'm sorry, Sorry, Sorry, you got me wrong. I'm
not talking about the lawyer. I'm talking about mom's husband.
Keep me in the darkness. You think we do not
really get on.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Yeah, okay, but you've said he's a good guy. I
mean he's not.
Speaker 8 (23:09):
A good guy, but we sort of we've always sort of.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Like, okay, we've clashed a bit. I would, Yeah, I
think you're going to have to pick up the phone
barrier and ask if he's got a lawyer. Dealing with things,
and if you can talk to them and just start
the conversation. And because at the moment you're dancing in
the dark.
Speaker 8 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. And I don't know if
you'll tell me where like the lawyer, what the lawyer is,
So how do I find like if he just to
say with scenario, he just doesn't want me to If.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
He doesn't want you to contact the lawyer, I won't
tell you, Okay, Is there a way of finding out who's.
Speaker 6 (23:43):
Well, yeah, it's not like we've got we've got like
a world data bank where we're lodger withvel walls when
you just go look them up like a company, for example,
company's office. But I would in the first instance have
a chat to him, and if that doesn't work, I
would certainly involve a lawyer. And most people when they
get a letter from a lawyer saying, hey, we're acting
for such and such and we're trying to find out
(24:03):
details here, they're usually pretty forthcoming.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, so I think we've got too. If I could summarize,
we've got two courses of action. First, pick up the
phone and call call your mum's partner, the executor. And
if you do, and hopefully that will be the end
of the story and he will give you the contact
and if he is not forthcoming, then you need to
(24:26):
talk to someone else, like a lawyer, to get in
touch and follow that up. Yeah, I think that I'm
hoping that it'll sort itself out for your Barry, and
because it is a stressful thing to be going through.
But I'm thinking at the moment you've got there's too
many unknowns and you're just you will worry unnecessarily. Just
(24:47):
pick up the phone.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
And I know you said that you haven't always sent
eye to eye, but just like you, you've lost your mother,
he's lost his partner and he's probably reeling a bit
as well, you know.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yeah, that's a good point, Janet, thank you for that.
Thanks for your call, Barry. I hope that's of some
help to you. Let me just check the time. Let's
go to gosh. Time is flying by it. I think
it's because Maria at first caller throw a such curve
boar Jane, Hello.
Speaker 10 (25:14):
Hi there, Hi guys, Hi Dan, I'm gosh. It's likes
the g the junction. Trying to understand wish in New Zealand,
trust in New Zealand. That's just a quod question. Honest
to God, my head is just bamboozled. Now, if the
settler and one of the trustees are both deceased of
a family trust, how easy is it for the remaining
trustees basically to wrap it up if there was a
(25:39):
success if there wasn't a success of trustee named in
the sense of that success of trustee could completely take over.
I'm just trying to ascertain, basically, can deeds, original deeds
be completely wiped out because of the original settler who
wrote said deeds is defeased.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
No, So what usually happens in New Zealand is And
of course it does depend on the terms of the
of the trust deed. But usually usually once a settler
has settled a trust in New Zealand, they almost step aside,
although as I say, there are there can be provisions
in a trust deed which says you can't do such
(26:18):
and such without a settlersply written consent. So usually they
step aside and then the trustees the trustees are in
the power seat. Can the trust be brought to an end?
Usually under the trusted provisions you can bring a trust
to an end, or if that doesn't. If the trustee
provisions won't permit that, you can apply to the courts
(26:39):
under the Trust Act twenty nineteenth bit easier. Now, the
legislation does permit an application to the court to bring
trust to an end as well.
Speaker 10 (26:50):
Okay, but those original beneficiaries of that said trust originally
set up must always be kept in the loop, surely, Well.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
It depends what type of beneficiaries they are. If they're
discretionary beneficiaries, they're entitled.
Speaker 10 (27:05):
They're named name beneficiaries and the original deed.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
Yes, that's not that's that's sort of not really here
or there. So discretion of beneficiaries are beneficiaries of objectives
that that trustees must consider, not necessarily got to treat
equally or bestirring them, but they must consider fixed beneficiaries
(27:29):
are actually entitled to something, so whereas discretion of beneficiaries
are merely entitled to be considered. So, whether they've been
named or not, I mean a lot of a lot
of beneficiaries and trustees, especially old trustees, are not named.
It's it's the children of or the grandchildren, or the
widow or widow or the unborn children, so that they're
not named at all.
Speaker 10 (27:50):
But yeah, now a young adult is specifically named.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
That doesn't mean that they're not a discretion of beneficiary.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Now, so what's the difference. What makes some of the
discretionary beneficiary.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
Well, they trustees will have the discretion to bestow capital
and income on them. So if they're a discretionary beneficiary,
then the trustees all the power will he rest in
the trustees hands to whether they'll exercise their discretion and
actually give the.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Benefit sort of wording is used to make someone fixed
beneficiary rather than discretion.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
It will actually it will actually say they're absolutely entitled.
So the provisions of the trustee will make it very
clear that they're entitled.
Speaker 10 (28:28):
So you need to check the wording of that entitled
jealous is that we're looking for.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Yeah, it weren't necessarily entitled.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
There will be very very direct wording noting that they
are fixed.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah, okay, gosh it is I didn't realize that. So funny.
Why would someone have a discretionary beneficiary.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
Most of our trusts, and really most trusts in New
Zealand are discretionary.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
The trustees the trustees discretion.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Right is that because the trustee is the can you
be the setler and trustee.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
You can settler trustee, so like I'm.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Setting up a trust and I might chang oh, I
see god, it does get complicated if you've got any questions.
So we've got a full border calls. I've just got
a couple of quick questions before we go to the break.
How long does probate take? Is there a minimum time
for probate?
Speaker 6 (29:19):
And know there isn't and it can, indeed depend on
how complex the actual will is, So it could be
you know, it could be sort of. I think back
in twenty twenty four we were looking at somewhere from
eight weeks plus. But you know, I've heard of probate
taking a couple of years. So it depends on how
complicated the will is. That's one of the reasons why
people have trust because the world just deals with you know,
(29:42):
basic chattels and the smaller stuff, and everything gets pushed
into the trust and then the trustees work from the
membran and wishes and don't need to go to the
High Court or wait for probate to be granted by
the hype.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Okay, it does. A will need to be made up
by a solicitor or of by a couple using AI
and a witness. Yes, there we go, well, AI actually
and two witnesses.
Speaker 6 (30:04):
First, So, first off, the will must comply with the
will's Act. And yes, I suppose anybody could make a will.
You could go and buy a will kit. You could
just sit down on the dining room table and start
writing out your last will and testament.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
But I'm a sean.
Speaker 6 (30:21):
Believer in using lawyers because then it's more certain you've
got certainty around what the will actually says, who's made
the will, how the world's going to be carried out.
Lawyers are going to want to see you sign the
will in front of them so that it's executed correctly
and complies with the will's act.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Yeah, what happens if someone Okay, I can answer this question,
even though I'll hand it to Janet. What happens if
a person dies while their will is being amended? Are
the amendments valid? And it's from Pete and my answer,
and Janet can tell me if it's right. If it
hasn't been signed, it's not valid. Would that be right?
Speaker 5 (30:58):
At first? Blush?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
I could be wrong.
Speaker 6 (31:04):
And so if it's an amendment, one assumes that there's
an original will in place, and that would take precedent,
and then the amendments. I guess, really, is it going
to be just a code of cell and add.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
On to it? It would be have to sign and.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
It would However, I would expect that whoever was taking
those instructions, Let's say there's a valid will in place,
and then I wander off to this list and say
I've got a will in place, but I'd just like
to add in a couple of extra things or make
a couple of amendments. Then that solicitor would say, well, fine,
let's take some instructions, and then they get to it
and then I die, I don't know in the next
(31:41):
forty eight hours. Then that solicitor could you know, he
could file an after David and say, well, I met
Janet and she was a full mental capacity and she
gave me these instructions, but unfortunately she died beforehand. And
that leads a good point. Most solicitors, when they're drafting wills,
they're not going to take your instructions today and then
(32:03):
get back to you in three months time. They're usually
pretty quick off the mark when they've been given instructions
to prepare.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Yeah, well, and it would depend on the language of
the instructions, like I'm thinking of changing my will, can
you draft up an amendment so I give the house
to Billy and be like yeah, as opposed to I've
made up my.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Mind absolutely yeah.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
So and that would come out in the affid day
that the solicita would actually be talking to me when
I'm having conversation with him about my what my thoughts
are and what I want to do. So he or
she would then be able to be very clear in
the AFFID David, this right where my mind was out
and what my intention was.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Okay, right, Gosh, we've got a truckload of calls. We're
going to do our best to get them to you
as quickly as possible. If you do have a long
story while you're on hold, just think about how you
can give us your question in a nutshell because we've
time as short, but no doubt we'll be hopefully seeing
Janet again too, because it's never a shortage of conversation
on this one. It's eighteen minutes to six news talk
(33:00):
so be I'm with Janet Zaka. She's director of New
Zealand Family Trust Services, talking questions around trusts and wills.
I'll tell you what, we could probably do a three
hour show on this the number of queries we've had
come in. But we'll see if we can get through
a few more quick calls. Brian, Hello, Hello.
Speaker 10 (33:16):
I'm just bringing up about what I would like to
know is.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
A pickful trust? Are they pretty good?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
What trust are perpetual trustees?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (33:29):
Difficult to comment on other trust services because she is
with New Zealand Family Trust Services, But and it would
be it.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
Would really be very unprofessional of me.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Trust company is there and having it with the lawyers
or not.
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Well, we've got we've got a couple of few trustee
companies and they're set up under statute here, so perpetual
perpetual trustee run for trustee services as well as as
well as security services like the commercial the commercial side
of their business.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I think I think Brian, it's with just making some
inquiries as too, because a lot of it can get
to the stage where you're looking at wills and trusts
and there are some companies that which all do wills
for nothing. I think the Public Trust is one, and
I will comment that I've just heard that that might
be fine, but they charge an arm in the league
as the administrator, So it's worth checking out. If you've
got a will you're setting up, you need to know
(34:24):
what the fees going down the track would be. And
that's a fair comment without us talking about any you know, competitive.
Speaker 6 (34:30):
Rate if we just think that though nothing's for nothing
in life, right, I mean, a company can't exist if
it does everything for nothing. So somewhere along the line,
someone's going to pay the pie.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Are there are there is this someone where you can
actually go online, you know how you can go to
interest stock, current ins in look at the different banks
interest rates. Is there an online service or some sort
of point of reference where you can look at the
fees that are charged by different trust and will administering companies.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
Possibly.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
I mean I've not done that myself for the simple
reason that we charge on you know, we charge our
hourly on what what we're doing. And some wills can
be very quick and they're very simple, and others can
be really complex and take an awful lot of time.
So but I don't think that it's unfair to actually,
before you, before you engage for somebody to draft a will,
(35:19):
to say to them, well, could you please tell me
how much this is going to cost.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Can you give me a bit of an estimate?
Speaker 6 (35:24):
And if they say what's for nothing, then say, well, ultimately,
how do you make your money? Will you draft me
or will not be involved in it whatsoever when it
comes down to administering that will at the end of it,
And I just walk out of here with a completely
free will. I mean, that's a fair question, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
And they'll probably say, and we put ourselves in their
executor as executor. Really, you're really naughty getting to draft
the will. Then just cross out the bits. No, don't
do that, don't do that. Don't listen to me for advice. Sorry,
I'm just being mischievous. Umm, just have the conversation with
someone I think is the advice about what the charges
(36:02):
will be John, Hello, Low.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Two matters. The first one the guy who wanted to
find out what was in the will. All you've got
to do is go online, get into the district court
thing and make an application for a copy of the will.
And you can only get it once probates being filed.
But there is a form that you can sell an online.
You put in your details, you put in your relationship
(36:27):
to the deceased, and away you.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Go on being granted.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yes, yeah, you get it quite well. When probate's been granted,
that's when the will is filed in the district court
and available for anyone to get a copy of it,
as long as you've got some valid reason for doing it.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Have you done that yourself? John? How to do it?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I've done it.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
How quickly did you get the information you're after the
copy of the will? Was it pretty quick?
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Well? Pretty quick? Yeah, once probate was filed.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
How much did it cost you?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
I can't remember.
Speaker 5 (37:00):
Did you have to.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Not like? Not like if you're dealing with the public trust,
because has been said on this program, the public trust
take a percentage, and I think it could be around
five percent, And if you've got an estate that might
have a lot of investments, cash and all this sort
of thing, and add up to her knight.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
I've heard it could be as much as ten percent.
So yeah, not wanted to stick in the public trust.
But I don't think of anyone who said, oh, the
cheapest chaps.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
The other matter was that with regard to amending a will,
there was a recent case that was reported where the
judge turned around and said, quite clearly the lady intended
to change her will. She died before she could sign
it because her lawyer had all his instructions but he
hadn't drawn it all up. Great stuff, that's except it all.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
That's what that's what you were alluding to, Janet. So hey,
thanks for that. John. We need to take a quick moment.
We'll be back in the tickets ten to six. Yes,
newstalk so a b Tim Bevera John with Janet Zika.
She's with the New Zealand Family Trust Services by the way,
so if you have any questions, you want to follow
up professionally with Janet in Z Family Trusts dot code
on z in Z Family Trusts dot co dot n
(38:14):
Z Lucky. Last caller Gordon High Yeah.
Speaker 9 (38:18):
Good here you are good.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
What's up?
Speaker 9 (38:20):
Excellent? So this is regarding what sort of will I'm
gonna have the relationship for about twenty five years of
the teenage daughter. And I know Janet was saying that
she wasn't too fast on the online wills. But that's
a basic will? Is that a k or what were
the big faux pas that she saw?
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Well that's the interesting thing, isn't it. So your idea
of basic and somebody else's might be quite different.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
And even if it is.
Speaker 6 (38:47):
Basically, if you use biguous language, conflicting provisions, then you
just open up that will to challenges, to lengthy delays.
Basically it's snite me to administer.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
And so all of the other things that are written.
Speaker 6 (39:05):
Yeah, all I would say is do your beneficiaries a favor,
do your daughter a favor, and go pay some money
and get get a will actually written by a lawyer
who knows the right wording to use and get it done.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
It's not funny that this has nothing to do with
what you've said, Gordon, But I think sometimes people you
know you think, imagine image. I don't know how much
a cost to get a will written. If you're just
paying by the hour, maybe a couple of hours of
time all to be four or five hundred bucks might
be cheaper, I don't know. So it's an amazing that
people will think nothing about going down to your local
appliant store and getting a new TV and going oh,
(39:40):
three grand, that's a bargain. And yet when it comes
to dealing with how your assets are administered after you die,
which is really important to you, you've boke got a
few hundred bucks, and I don't want to trivialize life's expensive,
but I think it's worth thinking about what else do
you spend. You know, you booked some tickets in their
New Zealand to go down to Coeenstown for a couple
of weeks.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
Well, it's also worth considering that ultimately, what you're trying
to do is ease the recipient pain. They're already in
pain if you've done your job as a decent human
being on this planet, and what you want to do
is you want to try and take the stress off
of them by taking out the woe of finances and
administering assets.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
And the law does provide for if you are and tested,
but it's a very painful process. And don't assume that
IFI diets then my husband's just going to get everything
with them. You never know who's going to get. The
law does spell out, but for instance, somebody said, with
about thirty seconds to go, if the husband and wife
have no will, do all assets just go to the
surviving partner. Do children get a share?
Speaker 6 (40:39):
Well, there's a whole formula set down under the Administration Act,
but as you can imagine, that's very much open to challenge.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
Thanks so much, Janet Gosh, we could have talked for
another hour or two easily for having me Ta. Great
for you, Great to see you again in zidfamily trusts
dot cot at NZ and we'll be back at the
same time next weekend thanks to my producer tyra Ward
and Sunday at six is next. If you missed the
anything of this hour, you can go back and listen
on the News Talk SIPP website. Just look for the
Weekend Collective and we'll catch you next time.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
You know.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks it Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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