Suns/Hornets Trade Reaction & NBA Rumors Round-Up - Featuring Dan Favale - The NBA Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
What is up, Fellow Siko's we are back with what
for Hard? Whatnoxist will be the third of four podcasts
going live this week. You can thank mister mort Genton
from the NBA podcast Game y'ab Who's Sports Fame? Forbes
Fame and Sports Illustrated Fame, and most importantly Only Fans Fame?

(00:27):
How are you doing more?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Very very good. Thank you so much for the wonderful introduction. Yeah,
the only fans thing is uh is taking off. I
think I have a view now, a single view.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's just me watching it on a loop, is what
it is.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh, so you're the one who I have to think, Okay, cool,
cool cool cool. Yeah, no, it's a great tip. By
the way, it's I really think that this is gonna
catapult my career into the stratosphere. I'm really looking forward
to it.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Oh, you're gonna be a first Well you won't be
the first, but it might be the first person to
visually combine a rot with your NBA analysis, Mr, NBA podcast.
I haven't seen any OnlyFans NBA podcasts just yet. Just
more analyzing shit in the nude or shirtless I'd favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Oh man, you know, I honestly do. We've joked around
about this for like two months now, maybe even three months.
There's a part of me that just wants to create
an account now just to see if it be a
coverage could even sustain be sustained on only fans.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
You'd have to you have to have a unique cook
We're just like everything worth like it could be that,
but it would have to be something you just so
outrageous that goes along with the NBA coverage and there's
a chance at my pop Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah. And the entire point is like I have to
keep my clothes on, so like if I make a
faulty analysis, for example, then I have to remove a
piece of a clothing item. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Speaking of items, we're gonna cover NBA trade rumor and
news items. We didn't think the Suns Hornet's trade, which
we are about the tackle, was worth a full podcast,
so we went through some other just noteworthy news items
and we're gonna react to them, just your standard breaking
down the latest NBA trade rumor and news items. Are
you ready to dig in?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
I am absolutely, Nick Richards to the Suns, of course
I am.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
We begin with the Sun's hornets trade, So the details
for listeners, watchers, subscribers, whatever. The Hornets received Josha Kogi,
Denver's twenty twenty six second rounder, Denver's twenty thirty one
second rounder, Phoenix's twenty thirty one second rounder. The Sun's
then received Nick Richards Denver's twenty twenty five second rounder,

(02:37):
and they also, for the people who care about this,
shaved more than twenty million dollars off there. They're a
luxury tax bill. General thoughts before we will tackle it
from each team's perspective, but general thoughts on this deal more.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
So the Sun's. I actually really like this. I know
that this is a team that's split the waters a
little bit this season because they've been sort of disappointing.
They haven't lived up to expectations. They don't really know,
you know, we don't really know rather what kind of
direction they're leaning. Well, we know they want to win,
but we don't really know whether that's feasible or not.
We don't know if they're actually even going to be

(03:12):
in the playoffs. But I think this does help them.
They've needed size for a while. Like I had Gerald
bord Gay on my podcast some months ago where we
talked about like just the size issue, and he was like, yeah,
they need to do something. They eventually need to do something,
because it's one thing to have Bradley beal like helping

(03:33):
out run the boards, but you can only ask so
much of a guy who's six five. You just can't
ask him to come in and do stuff he's not
inclined to do. And you can't ask another a lot
of those guys that Now you finally add a seven
footer with strong rebounding prow as, someone who's also a
rim runner, someone who can convert near the basket. You're
finally adding that element. Now do I think that they're done?

(03:57):
I don't know. I better right, I do think Grayson
Allen should be another one who's like might be might
be out there as a trade candidate and where again
it's the focuses on size. But I love the push
in here for a big man. I really do. I
hadn't even considered the tax savings, Like I was so

(04:18):
preoccupied thinking about Nick Richards as like a player and
that I didn't even take into account that they actually
shaved off some tax savings. So good for them or
good for matt Eshpia. I guess yeah, yeah, Like I'm
not sure the fan base is gonna benefit from that,
but like Nick Richards, I think it's good. I don't
think a lot of people necessarily watch the Hornets a
whole bunch, so I think he's gonna come in a

(04:40):
little bit under the radar. I don't think people necessarily
understand who he is. But yeah, like the statue just
putting up on the screen right now, they're good. He
is a very solid defensive player, great rebounder, like I
said before, can finish in traffic and finish near the basket.
Love thread just twenty seven too. I kind of like
the age that he is on, like he fits the

(05:03):
timeline that they're on. He's not too young, not too old.
I think this was a very very good pull for him.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, I think he'll be a good fit. Like you said,
just the size the contract fits. It's non guaranteed for
next year at five million as well, so that's probably
something you keep unless he's just absolutely terrible or you've
decided to blow the team up. I do think you
know he is going to be an actual transition and
like above the rim threat, he can't do much else
on the offensive end. I think he's probably I've seen

(05:30):
just some of the responses. I've seen some people are
just like, well, he's not a good screener. I think
he's good enough as a screener. He's been in the
eighty third percent tile or better of screening talent per
b ball index the past three years. He is this
year ninety five percent tile of rim contest per seventy
five possessions, and then the eighty fifth percent tile of
points saved at the rim per seventy five possessions. If
you're just into the more baseline stats, opponents are shooting

(05:53):
fifty six point four percent at the basket against him.
The caveat here would be even with all of the
injuries that Charlotte is stuff this year, he plays against
a lot of backups normally, and so if the plan
is to start him in Phoenix moving forward, I'll be
very curious to see how that works out. I still
think offensively he should be fine, and maybe even defensively,

(06:14):
because I don't think, you know, honestly, I think that
the Hornets have probably needed him to try and I
put try in quotes to like help out and cover
other things up more than Mike Budenholzer will have him, Like,
I don't know if the Suns necessarily have the talent
to where they can ensure he's not hung out to dry.
But I don't think Mike Budenholzer is gonna try and
overtax him by having him, like you know, do a
bunch of stuff on the perimeter. And I do think

(06:37):
you know, when it comes to like screen navigation and stuff,
is a big, he's probably okay, that will be interesting
to watch, but just as a base big who gives
you an element on offense when you're just looking at
the finishing the transition like Mason plumbing and use of
nurkics aren't doing shit for you in transition. And I
know the Suns don't get out in transition a ton,

(06:58):
but he is someone who will because when he's going
a straight line, specifically, he will be lined down the floor.
And so I think that will ultimately be good for them.
Is it something that's going to shift the tenor of
their season or give them a more stable defense? I
honestly don't know, because like the bigger impact might be okay,
now you have functional size, I'll say defensively at the

(07:22):
five and I use of nerdkices rim numbers have been
pretty good this year, but like pretty much everything else
on the defensive end for the most part, not gonna
give you a ton until maybe there's a trickle down
effect of having that baseline defensive competence and size at
the five will then make life easier on everyone else
and then even trickle down and spill over into Okay,

(07:42):
your secondary units, like it gets easier to flesh those out.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
I'm wondering the eighty third percentile or better in screening talent.
I think this is the first time I've been exposed
screening talent percentiles. What does that entail? Is that people
who've scored immediately after receiving a screen from him.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Or I'm pretty sure I'd have to look at the glossary,
but it's gonna factor in contact the separation rate, and
it like goes beyond just the screen assists. So the
separation okay, it's gonna be I think it's just basically
volume and effectiveness kind of combined into one of those screens. Again,
though he's going to look if he's predominantly playing against

(08:24):
second units, that's it's easier for him to kind of
stand out, like as a backup big Nick Richards is
really good as a starting big on a team with
let's just say playoff aspirations, even not even championship aspirations.
At this point, we'll have to see whether that is
a stretch or not.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Uh, they're already starting a backup big, so.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
They've started. I think you could argue that all of
the bigs they've started should be back up.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
That's what I'm That's what I'm preferring. Yes, I mean,
there's a recent use of darkets is only playing twenty
three minutes per game. You can't can't do war and more.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I you know, what was really in their game against
the Hawks the other night. I can't remember which member
of the Hawks broadcast it was. I think it was
Bob Rathberd said, use of Nurkice has just disappeared. He
was in the rotation one day. He's just not in
it anymore. And he just he knew it, but like
he said it just with like in such a revelatory tone.
I ended up laughing out loud while I was hearing it.

(09:20):
But like that's kind of been a microcosm of their season.
It's just like they're clearly they've dealt with some injuries
for sure, but like they're clearly just they move bradly
beal to the bench, they're leaning on Ooma Gadara more
like they're clearly just searching for something and some semblance
of consistency. And again, I think as someone who's probably
gonna play what twenty twenty five minutes a game for them,

(09:42):
and if he's playing thirty plus minutes, it's probably because
he's doing a pretty damn good job that this is
a nice get. I am curious though, and I think
this kind of bleeds into the Hornets perspective of the trade.
How do you feel about the cost of getting Nick
Richards for where it's okay, you're getting a second rounder back,

(10:03):
but you gave up three second rounders that all profile
is better, as like denvers twenty twenty six second profiles
is better than their twenty twenty five second I would think, well.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
I mean, look, that's the price of business at this point,
and it's also the price of getting better. This is
a team that can't really hide its cards, right, Like
they can't keep anything close to the best. Everyone around
them knows they're going for it. This year. You have
a what thirty six year old Kevin Durant, you have
Devin Booker, you have Bradley Beal. The time is now,
like the time is not three years from now, so

(10:35):
you know the chick is up. Everyone knows that that
they're in it right now, so they can squeeze everything
they want to to basically dangle that carrot in front
of Phoenix and say, look, you can get better, but
it's going to cost you, whereas other teams might have
the benefit of playing it a little bit coin saying well,
we can go one way, we go another way. Maybe
that's going to help us a little bit in our

(10:56):
negotiation tactics, Whereas that is just like if the Suns
try negotiate or try to hackle, people are like, no, no,
you cannot afford to hackle right now, right you were
gonna have to pay to get this upgrade, and frankly,
when when you're as committed. And I do take my
hat off from Matt Eshba in that regard, like I
know that we all think that what he's done is
a little bit crazy, and I think the vast majority

(11:19):
of NBA fans and pundits wouldn't have done it the
same way. I do take my hat off for him
just saying screw it, let's just go for it, whatever
it takes. Like that is probably the mindset you'd want
to have if if you're a fan of a team
and that's how your owner act. Now, then we can
talk all day long about whether he should be taking

(11:39):
advice from Misaiah Thomas. That's a different debate altogether. He
probably shouldn't, But I do appreciate this and the fact
that he's willing to pay to make it happen. Look,
I respect it.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
I respect Look in this case, he's saved to make
it happen.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
He also did that. Yes, again, I didn't even like.
This is the first time that I actually registered that.
So he also paid to save at the same time.
He both gained and saved in the same deal. And
that just took three somewhat high end potentially seconds. Would
you give that up to both save on the on
the bottom dollar and then get a guy in who

(12:14):
can help you, Yeah, I probably would. I don't. I
don't think it's a greeches in any way.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, I would agree with you. I think generally we
over romanticize second round picks, and so from Charlotte En though,
I think this is good, like getting those picks upgrading. Well,
let's say they upgraded one second round picks and then
they just get two distant seconds outright from teams that
might not be good at that point. I think that's
a good piece of business, and for me, I think
it also kind of reinforces that, all right, this regime.

(12:40):
Maybe they've been forced into it again because of injuries
this year, but they are focused on the bigger picture
and so there's just no sort of disillusions about what's
going on. I do wonder, though, you kind of look
at their big man setup now and it's do you
interpret this as a vote of confidence in Mark Williams
staying healthy? Is it just that want to give musa
diabatee more runner? We about to see some truly funky

(13:03):
ass lineups from the Hornet, maybe some t John Salon
at the five more often. I you know, They're not
a point where they should care about that, but I'm
wondering if, like, what is the offshoot of Okay, they
traded a big for a wing and that's that's a
trade you would typically make in general, and they were
compensated well for doing it. They also like this is
per Michael Scotto of hoops Ie the Sons wanted them

(13:26):
to take on Nurkic and then send them Cody Martin
along with Nick Richards, and Cody Martin is available, per Scotto,
so every team should be trying to get him in
my opinion, But this also kind of reinforces that, like
you know, you're not. There was some reporting that maybe
the Sons could get off Nurkic's money using seconds. That's
not happening, clearly. That's another takeaway from this.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
I will say this much. I wrote a reaction piece
over at Yahoo for this trade, and at no point
did I factor in the on court product of the
Charlotte Hornets after this trade. That was just not that
important to me because I don't think that was the motivation. Well, actually,
I'm kind of lying because I did basically say that

(14:09):
josh Okogi is going to help them in terms of
instilling a defensive culture. He should play, Yeah, he should play.
I think for him, it's about installing a culture next
to Josh Green, who defensively is also quite solid, and
I think the hope is to sort of install something
in La Metal Ball because you know it wouldn't hurt

(14:29):
if lametal became a better defender. Is that the play?

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Would it hurt him?

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Like would he be tired? What's the that's yeah, right,
that's a different equation there. But Mark Williams I think
has played phenomenally. I mean we're recording this on Thursday,
January sixteen, I think it was last night. He had
thirty one, right, a career high as well, like giving
him more touches, more minutes, it's fine. The Abata I'm
down with him too, Like I don't think this is

(14:56):
a big loss for them, even though Richards was a
perfec with me find back up form and I think
highly of him going to Phoenix. This team wasn't going anywhere.
I remember before the season everyone was like, Charlotte, that
is the deep sleeper. They're gonna come for you this year.
They could.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
I don't know what you're talking about. As someone who
was one of those people, I have no idea what.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
I was not one of those people, And I felt
like I was literally in the Twilight Zone in one
of those episodes in the mid nineties, like what the
hell is happening around me? Who has smoked something that
I have not been offered yet? I thought the hell.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
I basically flip flopped, like I assumed that Charlotte was
going to be what Detroit is right now, and I
kind of just assume that Detroit would need another year
before they could hit the accelerate. And I was clearly
I was clearly wrong about that, And this is.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
What I was not there. I was not there. So
the fact that they've lived up so to speak to
my expectations of being extremely bad. I just don't think
what they got back right now factors in much to
this season. For me, it's just about can Josh come
in and install that defensive culture and they get the
three seconds? That's what they took away from this perfectly fine.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
And by the way, that's with like Nick Richards missed
a ton of time with then he have like fractured
ribs or something earlier this year, so to still get
like what they did when he missed.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
So much time, I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
I think it was a rib if I remember correctly.
But to your point about a Kogie, not only should
he play, I would argue that you can make a
case for Josh Green or Brandon Miller, but once you
factor in kind of screen navigation and the breadth of
the breadth of positions that he can defend. I think
he's probably their best perimeter defender on the roster right now.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, I don't think that's unfair.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, there's another element of this though, from Phoenix's end
that I wanted to talk about. They only have two
tradable picks at their disposal now that twenty twenty five
Denver second and their own twenty thirty one first. More,
descending all these seconds out, this is a stupid way
to phrase it. Does it kill the Jimmy Butler dream

(16:57):
just because it's that was worth things that they couldn't
include to help make any package, assuming Bradley bill Wave
there's no trade clause and whatever team was taking him
like those were sweeteners they can include that were now gone.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
All right, So here's the thing, and Miami fans are
gonna hate me for it. And I also wrote this
in one of the Trede column that I did over
at Yahoo. I don't think you should fork over at
first Jimmy Butler right now because of everything, he's got
that player option which he can threaten to just not

(17:31):
pick up. Then he can be a rental for a
team that is lacking in assets and where Frankly, I
don't necessarily think, well, he'd be a good fit to
an extent, but he's not a floor spacer, and you
just don't know whether his motivation right now is about
securing the next contract or where his head at. Like,

(17:53):
I'm not gonna sit here and say Jimmy Butler only
cares about money. I'm not gonna say that. I don't
know what his motivation is. If I'm Phoenix, if I'm Milwaukee,
whatever team out there, and I'm training for Jimmy Butler
and I'm not fully aware of where he is mentally
where if he's is he motivated to come in and

(18:13):
help me win a title? Is he at thirty five
still the Jimmy Butler who we've seen in the playoffs before. Like,
I just have so many freaking questions around Butler at
this stage that I I just wouldn't dare give up
at first. So if the Phoenix Suns are somehow open
to relinquishing their first round pick, I think that automatically
puts them ahead of the queue in terms of being

(18:36):
able to get him.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
That's interesting. I would absolutely give up a first round
pick for Jimmy Butler, especially in Phoenix's situation. But I
guess to your point though, and I will say, I
will say Bradley Beal, whether he'll waivers no trade clause
and will Miami or another team take him? That was
always going to be the sticking point. So I don't
view this as, oh, the Jimmy Butler dream is dead, right.
I do wonder, though, like could they said, I've asked

(18:59):
grant this, I'm curious what you thing. Could you get
a first round pick for Osoe Gadaro or Ryan Done?
And so what I'm thinking there is, let's say you
trade Ryan Done. Is there a team that gives you
a late first that's maybe this year or in twenty
twenty six, that then you attached to Bradley Beal And
that gets the Jimmy Butler package done, whether it's from

(19:20):
and as an alternative to the twenty thirty one first,
because maybe we'll find out that Phoenix didn't want to
give there because Butler, they don't have to worry about
Butler leaving like I think some other teams would. And
I also think that wherever Butler goes, you won trade
for him, knowing that you have to pay him and
I think he's just gonna go where he's he's paid.
Whether he agitates for out a year later or something,

(19:41):
we would have to see. But I think more so
they were at the top of his list apparently when
this whole saga started, so I don't think they need
to concern themselves at that. But I'm wondering just because
you're so low on it, and that I do think
Miami might have a little bit more leverage than Jimmy
himself at this point, but neither party has a ton
of leverage. It'd be more palatable to say, if we
could get a late first round pick for Ryan Dunne

(20:03):
and oh godar like we we trade those picks instead
of our twenty thirty one first attached to Bradley Beal
to get the deal over the hump or is this
just is one? Is that too ambitious when looking at
the value of those two No.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
I mean again, if you have an idea where a
pick is gonna land, and it's like an immediate pick,
and you know, all right, is probably gonna be in
like the top twenty five or something, all right, then
you can probably persuade me to include it. What I
wouldn't do is like forg over an unprotected for Jimmy
at this stage. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not
sitting here and saying that his talent level, Jimmy Butler's
talent level isn't worth a first round traffick, it's worth

(20:39):
multiple That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing the concept
around it. Basically, you have no idea how long you
have him. You have no idea if he's gonna get
pissy with you, if you're if the contract you're offering
him in the summer is below what he's expecting of you. Like,
I just think there's so many moving parts here where
if you're relinquishing a fair bit of your future assets

(21:00):
throw you're you might end up looking really bad in
about six months time, unless you win the freaking title.
Like this is this is such an all in move
for the Suns that you know, I can respect it
if they go to go that route, but if then,
if they don't win the title, it's gonna look cord,
absolutely cord. So so again, if you're forking over something

(21:23):
that's like a twenty five twenty eight overall pick in
this upcoming craft, sure, like yeah, I can or in
that ballpark. Fine, relinquishing an unprotected for twenty forty first,
that could be ugly. That could be they could be
forking over there, a major, major piece there.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
I think the problem there with the Suns specifically, I
agree that they could be forking over a major piece.
But for me, it's two layers, you and I and
I think subscribers listeners. Not that we overrate, but we
assign a ton of value to these distant first because
of everything you just said, where is going to be
in twenty thirty one? That pick is going to be
a gold mine if whoever has it, whichever front office

(22:04):
trades for that pick right now is probably ninety percent,
almost assuredly, not going to be the front office making
or using that pick. And so I wonder if these
distant first they look good when they're attached to other
immediate assets, which is why I've wondered, could you turn
done into a first round pick and then attach that
where then Miami's like, oh, we'll take bill because we're
getting two first and one of them conveys this year

(22:26):
or next year. So I've wondered about that. And then
the other thing here is I think people are too
low on Bradley Beal as a player. We conflate player
values with their contractual numbers, which to some degree is fair,
but people are kind of acting like he's some bum.
If you put him on another team and maybe in
a role that he's more fitted for, which is to

(22:47):
be more central to the offense than he is now,
I think he'd be really good. And you could argue
there's only two years left on his deal more that's
not a lot of time. So why aren't there more
teams willing to roll the dice on him? That no
trade clause is parallel and we were seeing it now
in real time play out with the Suns, and so
that also is part of the compensation in this case

(23:09):
that you would be sending to Miami. To me, is
that there accept because Bradley Beal has no reason to
not just wave his no trade coasts to leave Phoenix,
but to negotiate the no trade class out of his contract,
like there's just no incentive for him to do that.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
I think there is some level of skepticism around Beale
that is fair, and I think there is some of
it that's, like you said, extremely unfair. And the unfair
part is when you evaluate him exclusively through the prism
of his contract. Yes, that is that is faulty. I
do think it's fair to wonder, like, is Bradley Beal's

(23:46):
three point shooting an outright ascid because like, he's had
years where he's been just a knockdown forty percent shooter.
Then he's had a stretch of like where he went
six years before that, where he was even slightly above
below average, and then suddenly his volume started declining. He
became a little bit more happy from the mid range area,

(24:07):
and you started kind of realizing, oh, his shot profile
isn't always fantastic. Like the saving graces for him has
always been I'm capable of getting too the free front
line as well, so if I'm not hitting from the outside,
I can tack the rim. Well, that component of attacking
the rim, that is, that has fallen a little bit
because he's thirty one, after all, that's not going to

(24:27):
get better as he ages. So I think there are
some teams that fully recognize who Bradley Beal was and
are asking questions in regards to who is Bradley Beal
right now on a different team, of course, where he's
the starting shooting guard. And getting a prominent role. But
is he still the Bradley Beal who averaged twenty eight
to thirty points you know from the Wizards back in
the day, or are we seeing a guy who's probably

(24:48):
more along the lines of like twenty two twenty three
points per game with a bad or sorry with the
worst shot diet. Those questions I think are fully legitimate,
and those would be real concerns. But that said, I
absolutely agree with you that people who are painting Bill
as a bum just don't get it.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, And it's it's tough because he kind of feels
like the consummate. Is he more comfortable and maybe and
and definitely in certain seasons he's been more efficient generating
his own shot rather than playing off others or being
more of a catch and shoot threat. And so even
if he might be more efficient, can he do it
in higher volume as a secondary option? And I think

(25:28):
that's a fair criticism. I really think though, the most
damning thing about him is the no trade clause. Like
if Bradley bal didn't have no trade clause, I would
go as far as arguing that Jimmy Butler might already
be in Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
M So I think I think that's a I think
that's a person perfectly reasonable take. By the way, I
also forgot to mention just the availability. Can we also not?
I think can we agree that for Bradley Beal as well,
that's awesome?

Speaker 1 (25:53):
He's one of those players. Unless I'm misremembering any like
real chronic issues, I know, I think he dealt with
some nie stuff at some point, but it's it's like
the Anthony Davis of Nothing is necessarily a serial offender
in his body, but these like injuries just continue to
pile up constantly.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Like again, if we look back, the last time he
played eighty two games, he was twenty five. Right now
he's thirty one, and since then it's been fifty seven,
sixty forty, fifty, fifty three and then twenty nine this year.
It's like like that, you have to factor that in. Nowadays,
with the restrictiveness of the new CPA, player availability has

(26:29):
become more crucial than before. You want if you're paying
guys forty to fifty million a year, you want them
to be able to play for seventy seventy five games
at least. You're not satisfied with a fifty five game season.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Well, you have actual Jimmy Butler updates and this is
kind of twofold, but the latest on him. According to
ESPN Sham Sharania, he met face to face with pat
Riley and reiterated his trade request and said he won't
sign another deal with Miami.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
So where are the news right now?

Speaker 1 (27:02):
The Jimmy Butler updates are kind of the same the Heat.
The Heat are still reportedly remaining patient. And that's why
I'm asking you, which I think will spill over into
our next angle to tackle. Have we reached the is
there a Jimmy Butler dark horse out there?

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Of the situation, like you know, sort of the Have
we reached that point of the discussion?

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yes? And I actually, you know, a couple episodes ago
we talked about this when we had a Heat segment.
I wasn't kidding when I said that in some alternate
universe here there is a challenge trade between the bulls
and the Heat. Is that's basically saclovine for Jimmy Butler.
Like you're laughing, but like again, if you look at
it from Chicago's point of view, it's a form of

(27:45):
bull He's a big name. This is what they kind
of want to do right. They want to sell the
fan base on something and Saclovine they've been trying trying
to trade him forever. He's ridiculously underrated. He would be
a challenge rejection for the Heat who are trying to
make the playoffs this year to avoid forking over the
unprotected pick in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Which, just to be sure, is the opposite of what
the Bulls should be doing.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Absolutely, And look that's I'm not saying, you know what
the Bulls should be doing into consideration because I've done
that for years and they're not listening. They keep doing
things that are completely logical. But I do think that
type of trade is the in there. I absolutely guarantee
you that because of who the Bulls are, they've had

(28:33):
this conversation internally, they've had a meeting about this. I
guarantee you. I guarantee you. I mean, why wouldn't they
from a pr perspective, from a fan perspective, like from
an engagement perspective, Look, who's back the tack line rights itself.
I mean, you're laughing, and I get it, but like
it's you can't tell me that from a bull's perspective,

(28:57):
this wouldn't be considered.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yes, it could be, and I mean worst case scenario
or is it the best case? Like he might be
an expiring contract technically, but there's just something that is
nonsensical about the idea of Okay, so next season, the
banner in Chicago is a recently resigned to Josh Giddy,
a thirty six year old Jimmy Butler or whatever on

(29:21):
a new Max deal, and then Nicolo Vuca. It's just like,
what are we doing here?

Speaker 2 (29:26):
But like, what of the what have the Bulls really
been doing since twenty twenty one? What have they been doing?

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (29:31):
I think it is. And that's why I'm pushing back
on this because people like try to make sense of
what the Bulls are doing. But you have the factor
in this current management, they are handcuff from perspective. They're
not allowed to rebuild, they're not allowed to go all in,
like relinquish all their future assets for a star. They're

(29:52):
basically being asked to make moves within some level of margins.
This kind of fits that bill to a t.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Is there any well I'll ask you this after we
talk about the next team that I don't know if
I don't think they're a dark horse. Any longer they
might be the favorites. But the Milwaukee Bucks. So this
first of note, they are in the second apron, which
means they can't aggregate contracts, but you can aggregate contracts
if the deal get you out of the second apron.
And so they are six point five million, roughly above

(30:21):
the second apron. Pert Michael Scotto of hoops Hype, they
are looking to move Pat Conaton, who he has a
nine point four million dollar player option. That's about his
salary for this season two but for next season. That
before we get into the Jimmy Butler stuff of it all.
And the report is this comes from Sam Manmic of
The Athletic, that Jimmy Butler is willing to go to Milwaukee.
I wonder how much of this is the initial rumor

(30:43):
about him not wanting to go to Milwaukee was wrong
versus Okay, the Phoenix thing isn't happening. So I'm slowly
expanding my list. That being said, from the pack content perspective,
because whether it's a three teamer or an independent trade,
just to get the Bucks out of the second apron,
like can you get off of that final year of
his contract, like, is Detroit taking seconds back to absorb

(31:04):
Pat Connaton.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
It's it's so funny you asked that, because when I
signed up for a Blue Sky and started getting active there,
that was one of the first things that I started
started talking to people about it, because like that we
were just starting that side up, like from a basketball perspective,
and everyone was starting trying to get conversations going. This
was one of them. And the debate came up whether

(31:27):
what would it take for the Bucks to get off
Pat Connaton, And like a lot of fans were like,
probably a couple of seconds. Some other people like, no,
that's not enough. You have to give up like a
late like a future first to get off of him.
I don't know what the answer is. I do know
that no one around the league is going to look
at Pat Continson as an asset. No one's gonna be

(31:48):
looking at Pat and going, oh, yeah, he will take
him on as a player and put him immediately into
our rotation. That's great. What it gets like, that's not
the way the teams are looking at it, So that
majority of what they have to relinquish probably has to
go to that third team to take on Pat Conninson,
which leaves them with less assets for Jimmy. But like
I've said, and maybe I'm just too low in the

(32:10):
whole situation, I wouldn't relinquish a first for Jimmy regardless
at this point, I'm just too worried. But also like
I'm a safety nerd when it comes to that, I
wouldn't have the balls to do it, which might be
why I'd make a horrible GM. But we'll see. I mean,
I think that is where they have to pay. Like
the real value stuff though, is to get off of
Pat Coninson and not in terms of providing Miami with

(32:32):
with a legitimate acid for Jimmy.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, and look, I believe they only have one tradable
second round pick. They just have both of their twenty
thirty one picks.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, I believe that's not enough to get off Connittton.
I'm sorry, it's just not.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
You need another team to not even marj. You can't
attach Marj on Bochamp there. You need them to like
you didn't have to be willing to include Andre Jackson
or maybe a team like or AJ Green, So maybe
it's Aj Green in that second, like that type of deal.
And then at that point, now you are giving up
like chunks of your rotation because any gimme Butler trade
the math that works right now unless something substantially changes

(33:07):
Chris Middleton, Bobby Portis and Pat Connaton to a third team,
and then that twenty thirty one first is the framework
and you probably need to include that second. I guess
what you're hoping from there is that then can the
Heat attach other and they're not, by the way pat
Riley like views second round picks is just dog shit
like at this point. So the Heat, I don't even

(33:27):
know how many they have some seconds that they have
the Lakers second next year, that there's a swap that's
going on with Indiana, so they could probably include another
second or two, and the thinking there for them would
be okay, Like Conton then isn't on their payroll, which
he like theoretically couldn't be because of their own cap situation.

(33:47):
But you are getting the Bucks is twenty thirty one first,
and so are you willing to send out your own
twenty thirty one second or that Lakers second and then
just two seconds? So like, let's just in theory, the
Lakers twenty twenty six second A and the Bucks is
twenty thirty one second to Detroit for like to take
on Pac Conton's money. Is that like, are we closer

(34:08):
at that point? Or is that's still not enough? Because,
by the way, the other part of this Detroit is good.
So from their perspective, what's the value in helping Milwaukee
get better? Now? I think you could just go around
the league and say, is there a team with a
trade exception large enough or their non tax payerment level
that they would still take content in for you could
work it with a game it with some smaller contracts,

(34:29):
but like in a vacuum, are those seconds the Lakers
second in twenty six and a Buck second in twenty
thirty one? Is that enough to take on a year
of pat content? I think we're close.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah. It gets you in the door in terms of
having a conversation, And I think you are making a
real offer, right, Like it's not you know, let's let's
try to like hookwink you into this one like it's
it's it's a real offer. What it comes down to
is also the awaren of other teams knowing full well

(35:02):
that the Bucks need this to happen in order to
get Jimmy. We'll just say no. Like you need more,
you have to go out and find more you have
like or it's or problem.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Again, it's aj Green or like Andre like those are
the those are probably the two players they have where
other teams might be oh them in a second or
seconds like now we're talking.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Here's here's what I think a lot of fans don't
understand as well. When teams are trying to be looped
in as a third team to make something work and
they're not the beneficiary of getting like the star player,
they are going to squeeze the ever living hell out
of whatever they can because.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
It seems that unless you're the Pistons of the twenty
twenty four offseason.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Right, yes, correct, correct, there are exceptions and and it's
also look, I'm not even kidding when I say this.
I I get I'm guessing very much. That's why teams
are trying to loop in teams historically that are bad
negotiators as well, But like seams that are good negotiators
will say, oh, you want to send us a third team,
but we're not getting one of the key pieces involved

(36:08):
in this trade. Fine will help you out. You came
to us, so that means we'll ask for something else
that is juicy, that is delicious, and it's not going
to take up something of ours, Like we might be
able to rend out our cap space, but that's gonna
cost you two or three seconds, even though it does
makes no difference to them. So if they're looping in
a third team, I would need that third team to

(36:31):
be the right team, who like, are unaware of the
leverage they have in some conversations or.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Is it something like I mean, and it would have
You'd be towing a fine line here. But so like
look at Houston as an example where maybe in their
heads they're trying they think that this is all going
to blow up in Milwaukee's face. They want to fast
track the Yanni's trade request so they can be involved
in that. So they're going to offer to take on
pac content and they will send out one of their
smell like they have all these quasi expiring contracts, and

(37:00):
they have a ton of flexibility within the new matching
rules too. So it's can you make it cheap enough
like for the trade with Miami and Milwaukee to work,
and then in your head, it's all right, we get
a couple extra seconds and we made the Bucks better.
This year, but we're get in fury. But maybe this
blows up in their face and they've gotten rid of
their twenty thirty one pick and now Giannis is gonna
be available, and hey, look we've got all these assets.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
I don't want to say hope teams think like that.
I know they think like that. I'd like to see
more teams act on thoughts like that.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah. Now, there are so many ways you can strengthen
your own team. It's not just through the draft. It's
not just through you know, free agency, like it's creative,
long term thinking like that that really separates, you know,
the mens fum of the Boys.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
I have two questions for you on this. Yes, you're
the Bucks. This is the framework. It's those three players
plus your first and that second, and you make it work.
Are you doing this to get Jimmy Butler? You already
said you wouldn't give up a first for Jimmy Butler.
But if Jimmy Butler says he's gonna stay.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
That does change things. Yes, I can cannot catch, but
if I'm the Bucks, like can just before we get
into that, can I can I just fire Doc Rivers? First?

Speaker 1 (38:10):
We honestly, we need to figure out where to get
to Bias Harris to Milwaukee and reunite, yes and yes
and in just get.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Get the whole band back together there. Okay, I'm gallo,
bring back let's go. So, so, so, what what is
your your question? I'm the Bucks.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Are you doing like whatever framework it takes, it's it's
your twenty thirty one pick. I mean if you can
off without I don't know how, but it is Miami's leverage.
So you know, at such a deficit that you can
if you can keep your first round pick, then hell, yeah,
like you're doing this.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
And if we're if we're assuming that Jimmy is kind
of like I'm staying. Yeah. By the way, I'm I'm
unsure of this because I I don't remember every single
minutia in the CBA. Could Jimmy theoretically already pick up
his option now or is there a trigger date? No?

Speaker 1 (38:55):
No, he could pick up his option.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Right, Okay, so that would be part of the negotiations.
Like if he did that now, like, yeah, I would
relinquish that twenty twenty or twenty thirty first Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
If you can guarantee Butler's on your team next season,
I mean, yes, if I'm.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
If I'm the Bucks, Yes, because I here's the thing.
Even Jimmy Butler knows he's not going to be the
best player on that team. I think that is that's
such a specific version or not version, that's such a
specific system, that's such a specific situation. That was the
word I was looking for. Where Gianna is still the

(39:34):
number one guy, like, there's no doubt about it. He
Milwaukee Royalty, He's the main dude there for Jimmy to
come in and realize, yeah, I'm not the top dok
in here, Yes, I would. I would gamble with that,
assuming he picks up his option for next year. Absolutely,
because I do think even Jimmy Butler is aware that

(39:56):
gianniso is a better player.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, I I agree, And just like, giving the level
of health issues that Chris Middleton has started to deal
with over the past few years, Yeah, you just you
almost kind of have to do this if it's on
the table and it can get done. I don't know.
The arguments against it would be you don't want to
short search at your future if you think that there's

(40:20):
any iffiness with Giannis or even Dame moving forward. The
other two compelling things would be all right, well, are
you gonna be able to afford to pay, like well,
ownership pay to keep brook Lopez next year? Because, by
the way, if you're getting rid of Bobby portis Giannis
attat to Kumpos your backup five now? Like that like
certainly in the postseason, right, And that's a responsibility they've

(40:42):
over the past few seasons shied away from. So I mean,
you could argue when it's Giannis and Portus like whatever,
that's fine, But now you're kind of removing the all right, well,
there's no like there's there's no sort of cover here,
no safeguard. So I wonder if that factors in it
all on top of just the okay, where are we
going to be in twenty and thirty one of it?

Speaker 2 (41:01):
See, I subscribe to the roster construction ideology more so
like two stars in depth, unless, of course that seem
that I have in place, Like okay, see right now,
who have legitimately three stars, Like there's a significant runway
on there some of their rookie contracts still like you
can run with that until things get you know, too expensive,

(41:24):
and then you're struggling to figure out what to do there.
But like Yeah, that's that's that's a conversation. That's such
a specific situation we can't really get into that. But
like it's for the may or, for the Milwaukee Bucks
rather to go all in on Gianna's Dame Butler and
then have virtually zero depth. I mean, it's not like

(41:44):
I believe in it. If I'm the Bucks, like that
might that should have been your first question. Let's let's
let's revisit this the whole thing. Your question to me,
if I'm in the Bucks right now is do you
think training for Jimmy Butler is going to lead to
a championship or even close to it? My answer will
be no, because what I'm relinquishing.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Mhmm, yeah, I just but is it a no? I
guess going from Chris Middleton and Pat Conaton to Jimmy
Butler is a monster upgrade at this point.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
It is absolutely I'm not I'm not debating that whatsoever.
But I'm also fully recognizing that Jimmy is looking for
for money in the future, so I'm probably gonna have
to re up him for a lot of cash because
he's made that perfectly well known that he wants the bag.
He's He's gonna be thirty six this year. You have Giannis,

(42:34):
you have Dame Damis also getting up there. Now, I'm
paying for three guys in your thirties. And what my
mission is, if i'm the Bucks is to build around Giannis,
Like that's I need to produce a product around Giannis
that optimizes him. Does that specific constellation of stars do that?

(42:55):
I'm not sure I have the answer for that. I'm
inclined to think no. But again, like you said, you
seek it's a perfectly valid and reasonable thing you're coming
here with because like you're saying, like they're paying us
shits on of money for Chris Middleton and he's he's struggling,
like you need to do something else.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Now, do you know what'd be interesting about this, Because
let's say Jimmy does like we're just I think we're
also all operating under the assumption and maybe he would
just pick up his player option, but we're all operating
under assumption that he'll get his max or the short term,
in which case, if you trade for him, you have
one hundred and sixty two million dollars committed to him
Damon Jannis next year. That's more than the salary cap
is projected to be at next year's salary cap is

(43:34):
a little under one fifty five right now. But like,
and so when you've you could say, well, Chris Middleton
also has a player option, but he's not going to
command anywhere near Is he going to be even cheaper
than you thought? You could say, oh, is he gonna
cost half as much as Jimmy Butler? Are close to it?
And then you could say, well, would you rather have
Chris Middleton at sixty percent of the cost of Jimmy
Butler next year? Maybe that's worth a discussion. But also

(43:57):
couldn't Jimmy Butler in theory just not Like, look what
happened with James Harden. Like around I know Jimmy Butler,
I think there'll still be more injury around him than
there wasn't James Harden at the time. But look at
the deal that James Harden got this year, Like a, like,
are we sure Jimmy Butler's even gonna get forty million
dollars a year if he ops out?

Speaker 2 (44:15):
No? And obviously not, And I think that is. But
that's the thing that's where we're fighting the perception of
Jimmy himself, right because even if no one is willing
to pay him that you could still see an argument
where Jimmy said, Okay, look, this is this market is
just it's it's not there, so I'm gonna pick up
my player options, but then the market's gonna be there
year the year after, like they're I don't necessarily think

(44:37):
that Jimmy is always dealing with the realities of a situation,
and I think that thing could be something like that's
a sticking point for him, Like it's been reported multiple
times now he he went to pat and was like extension, now,
please more money. So I think this is a very
pressing issue for him. And if the Bucks are like no,

(45:00):
well you can come here and then we'll see what happens.
I don't think that's the approach. I think he wants
to back right up and if fair enough, like I'm
not gonna blame anyone.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
And also they can't play hardball if they've traded their
last moveable.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you know, this is sort of
a side point. But this is something I've been talking
about under the pod for years alongside Brian. This is
why I actually want my main guys to be some
of the oldest on the roster because it becomes so difficult,
like again the Chris Biddleton situation and the Dame situation.

(45:35):
So you have Yannis who's thirty. Now you're surrounding him
with guys who are older, meaning they decline faster. Yannis
is earning top dollar. These guys are lowering their trade
values because they're getting older themselves, they're getting worse. It's
such a difficult job finding new secondary stars who can

(45:55):
run that same timeline with Yannis for example, Like it's
almost like, oh, we have to go out and get
a guy like Dame who's the little past his prime,
Like we have to go out and get a guy
like Jimmy who's definitely past his prime. Like I do
think there's so much value when you're rebuilding or just
constructing a roster that if you have like a Tier

(46:16):
one superstar, that dude has to be one of your
oldest players because it just your secondary your churchy area,
your fourth guy, your fifth guy. Then they're on that
string h wise, where they're not gonna decline on you
all of a sudden. That's just unless something drastic happens, obviously,
and that allows the effectivity of the number one superstar

(46:36):
to be maintained for a longer period of time.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Any other Jimmy. So we both agree though that if
you if you know Jimmy Butler is gonna be there
and you're the Bucks, you kind of have to do
this even as well, the look they've played better since
they're poor start, so that's certainly a factor.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yes, So what is your question whether what is.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
There is there another team that just hasn't been discussed
in Alexicicon that you could just see kind of coming
out of the woodwork, because we've we've heard the Golden States,
the Houston's, the Lakers have been tangentially mentioned. There's just
anyone I've I've can't paign for Atlanta just to do it,
especially if it's not gonna really sense.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yeah, I like it, the Atlanta Hawks, like I. Again,
I I talked about this on the on the previous
podcast with you where I brought up the Spurs just
because if he's not a great fit, he can walk
this summer. But again, this was that was a very
modest return. I'm fully aware that Heat fans hated it.
That's fine, that's I Also I commented on on that
in the piece. Basically saying, look a deal for I

(47:33):
think the framework was Keldon Johnson, Sack Collins, and Trey
Jones for Jimmy and Alec Burks, because that that's where
I am again. I'm also look, I'm mister safety. I
don't want to give up something for what I consider
to be potential blow up situation.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Would you give up that fake Charlotte Hornet's first round
pick that turns into two seconds?

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Given? Yes, So, given that the Spurs have oodles of
draft picks and so much income, I probably, like I could,
I could probably be persuaded, even though in the piece
I was like, no, I don't want to relinquish a
first I might be persuaded to give up a couple
of seconds, but like that one specifically, I could probably
be persuaded for that.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
We move on now, out of Jimmy Butler land into
the land of the Golden State Warriors, who mort so
after well, I think both before and then after a
loss to the Toronto Raptors. We got comments from Draymond
Green and Steph Curry that basically I won't read them verbatim,
but they emphasized they don't the importance of the Warriors

(48:38):
not over mortgaging the future to win. Now, this of
course rubbed people the wrong way because if you're not
doing that, then what are you doing? Steph then, after
their win over the Timberwolves walk back those comments, basically saying,
in a nutshell, anyone who thinks he wants to be
on an average basketball team is insane and kind of telling.

(49:00):
Twitter turns to, you know, shut the fuck up. My
question to you, yeah, what is the plan in Golden
State then, because look, I don't the fact that. Honestly,
if we really wanted to Galaxy brain this, Draymond Green
feeling this way might make sense because if it wasn't
for the emotional component, he's still really good on defense.

(49:22):
But like he could in fury be one of the
players leaving if you were trying to upgrade the roster,
he wouldn't he an all likelihood won't be, So I
won't Galaxy bring it to that extent. But like Draymond
and Steph feeling this way, it's not I don't view
them as non competitors and I don't fault them for it.
If anything, it makes me look more closely at what

(49:42):
a sham of a job. Joe lacub and crew are
doing and optimizing their final windows. Because before I throw
it to you, I'm not saying they should make a
trade for the sake of making a trade and just
deal everybody all their picks, all their players under the sun, right,
But the fact that there Steph and Draymond here, like, oh,

(50:03):
we want to leave the organization in a better place
than where like where it was when we came. You've
already fucking done that by putting them back on the map.
You have four championships, and Steph is not the Steph
of a few years ago, but like, he's still really
fucking good, and as long as he stays healthy, he's
probably gonna make an All NBA team. And there's just

(50:24):
something that's so futile and also insulting to your fans
that you're not actually going for it. And I think
what bothers me the most is if if the messaging
was they're waiting for the right opportunity and that hasn't
presented itself, but instead we get this performative bullshit that

(50:46):
they were trying to trade for lowry marketing, but they
didn't want to give up anybody for him, And then
they were trying to trade for Paul George by offering
the Clippers long term money, even though the Clippers' entire
premise of letting Paul George walk was they didn't want
long term money on the books. So I never viewed
those quote unquote pursuits as legitimate. And then we're sitting

(51:08):
here just looking over the PA look at the players
who are not good enough, and I agree with some
of them. Pascal Siakam wasn't good enough. I disagree with that,
Brandon Ingram wasn't good enough. Probably agree with that Zach
Lavine isn't good enough. If you're worried about not having
to give up a ton of assets, maybe he is
good enough because I guess the Andrew Wiggins of it
all complicates things. But like, you're not gonna have to
mortgage your future for him, and so I don't fault

(51:32):
Draymond or Steph for this one bit. I just think that,
and I understand that fans don't want to see the
Warriors decimate their future to not win a title right now.
But like you have what is still one of the best,
it's one of the best basketball players of all time,
who is still close enough to being one of the
best players in the NBA that you should be going

(51:53):
for it. And I just find this to be again
from the Warriors specifically, this is just such bullshit, Like
I have no Steph Dre. They said what they said,
that's fine, it's honestly. That might be is that STEP's
like character flaw here is that he's never gonna push
the front office to do something, and that I do think, Okay,
you're entire, you have your four titles, you don't need

(52:14):
to prove anything. But like, then don't hedge either if
you're like if you if you're just here to kind
of ride out into the sunset, then you say that.
And if that's the Warriors messaging like and they've been
the messaging has been inconsistent because how many times has
Jonathan come in a bit available but they don't want
to part with him as just like kind of the
they view Brandon Pajemski as a future All Star. I

(52:36):
just or but they're involved in trade talks or they're
waiting on Giannis even though they would never have the
best trade package for Yannis even if they put anything,
excuse me, everything on the table. The only way and
now we can Galaxy brain. This is do they just
are they waiting in the offing. They know something's gonna
crop up where it's Kevin Durant's gonna want out of

(52:56):
Phoenix and he's only gonna want a Golden go to
Golden State because that's a sweeps they could win. But
then you're going to contradict yourself by mortgaging a good
chunk of your future for a thirty six year old.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
I mean, yes, I think they're open to that. Here's
here's what I think happened ultimately. I think they drafted Kuminga,
they drafted Moses Moody. They also drafted Brandison Pochemski. They
drafted all these guys, and they were hoping, yeah, we
can make this seamless transition with a young core where
we have these blue chip prospects and this is gonna

(53:29):
be a couple of years where we make this transition.
We allow Steph and Draymond to sort of like bridge
that gap and then they become like secondary tear tier
players and then the next you know, the next group
is up. And then that never materialized. They realized Kuminga
while decent, it's just not that guy Moses Moody. They

(53:51):
never had enough faith in him to play him extended minutes,
at least, not enough to really understand what they had
in him. That's also why the extension for him was
was perfectly recent, because they got him for freaking steal.
As far as I'm concerned, if he goes to a
second team now, I think he's gonna look much better.
Brandon Pjeenski up and down, Tray Jackson Davis an older rookie,
not really a whole lot of potential there, And I

(54:13):
think now they realized, Okay, look that didn't work. So
we're trying to save money. And that's where your point
about the performative bullshit comes in, because you're right, this
is a team that's that desperately was like, oh no, Clay,
you're leaving. Oh that's too sad. What are we supposed
to do? Save money?

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Now?

Speaker 2 (54:33):
All shucks? Well, so be it will save money. I
think that's where they are right now. I mean they're
not even projective if I'm reading this right, to even
be a tax team next year. Like they drastically diminished
their their tax bills this year. They're under six million
below it actually, so like could they if they find

(54:55):
themselves bad enough next month, try to see if they
can shed six million to get under the tax line,
because that would be the real proof in the putting
right there that they're not serious. But I do think
to your point about waiting for Katie, that is the
one I think that I think they're basically saying, we
trust our market, we trust our popularity, we trust you know,

(55:16):
the state of our franchise that is still viewed as oh,
recent champions, the last one one in twenty twenty two.
I think that is what they're hoping for. That's what
they're aiming for. They're hoping that someone lands in their lap.
And if that's a thirty six, thirty seven year old Kevindurrant,
so be it, because you can sell that to the
franchise or sorry, to the fan base. And we also

(55:37):
have to admit Steph Katie together, even though they're old,
almost as old as me, that dude still has some juice.
Like that's the thing. But I too have been really
weirded out by why they haven't gone for it after
they kind of realized, Oh, Kumenk, isn't it Most's Moody,

(55:57):
isn't it Brandon Pajemski, isn't it like why they haven't
leaned into it. But I think the answer is just
saving money, which.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
I guess Denner's fine, And it would be really funny
if they end up just like setting Dennis Shooter the
Detroit Pistons, who could probably use a backup guard, and oh,
we ducked at tax this year, Like it does not
feel more likely than I'm making a big trade because look,
every name that's been mentioned, I'm not saying that like
Jimmy Butler not good enough, too old, right, But like,
so who is the name? Is it just Kevin Durant?
And in that case, like like what.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
You said, you mentioned the name, I'll tell you what
the name is, because that was the one that never
passed the smell test for me. When Saclovine was just
constantly viewed all the contract to contract, you can't tell me.
You can't convince me that Saclovine wouldn't be a great
fricking fit on this team.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
The Warriors offense is so bad when Steph Curry's off
the floor, Dennis Shooter is not fixed it, he's not
been great for them, Like, yeah, it would have been
a great fit. And I just now you're at the
point where all was Andrew Wiggins played too good, we
can't keep them up for Zack Lavine, And like, I
kind of understand that discussion, but you also have not
then done a good enough job like developing your secondary

(57:13):
wings to then take up that like you know, a
Moses Moody. Now, now, gee, Santos is untouchable. Apparently, I
just don't, like I think, I'm just I'm fed up
with how phony and superficial and honestly aimless the front
office is. Because so at this point it's okay, you're
retaining all your future assets. How long until you're bad

(57:34):
enough for those future assets to result in the type
of player that you're potentially passing on now, Like, look more,
they're twenty twenty five first round pick. Could be anyone.
It could be someone who's half as good as Zach Lavine.
So I'm just like, I just I don't get it here.
And I understand the salary matching of it all is complicated,
and I understand the organic cycle of team contender windows,

(57:57):
but like now you're just sitting here depending like you're
operating on another let like light years ahead or whatever,
and and really you're just like snake oil salesman at
this point.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Yeah, yep, it's it's a really good question in terms
of what they should do. Like if if stuff goes
out and pressures the front office, which I agree with you,
he hasn't done, at least done from our knowledge and
not aggressively, So like who knows what what kind of
internal discussions they've had. What I wonder is, what's what's
the play? Because I do think we have to acknowledge

(58:31):
teams are pretty aware that Jonathan Kumenka isn't you know
that guy most As Moody is, and that guy, like
their asset trove isn't really that attractive. So even if
Steph did try to push them for something, what can
they realistically do? Cyclovin aside, well.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
I mean, I don't like in terms of players, we're
gonna know the list of names that are out there,
but I would, I mean, I don't think they have
the the glitch see his stash. But like they can
trade multiple first round picks like that, even the twenty
thirty pick they sent to Washington, they can trade like
a pick that's protected that same year twenty one to
thirty and like, so that's so they could trade three

(59:12):
real first round picks in my book, plus swaps, plus
taking a flyer on KAMINGA or pods. Even Moody is
movable with the poison pill just because his salary on
that extension.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Is so well, who is the players get for that package?
That's where I want to research. Also, here's get.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Couldn't you in theory get a Jimmy Butler or Zach
Lavine without having to give up that type of package.
It just becomes a matter of matching salary. And so
if you're not going to go that route, and if
the all in play isn't going to emerge, and by
the way, if the all in play does emerge, in
all likelihood, you're not going to get him because while
I think their assets are a little bit better than
you do, they're not going to be as good as

(59:50):
many of the other teams that will be after whatever
player you think. So, why aren't they doing something like
a Cam Johnson where maybe it costs you a first
round pick and a young player, Like what if you're
not if you're worried about mortgaging too much of your future,
why not only have to mortgage part of it? And
I get, but I just so that also doesn't pass
the sniff test.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
But that but does that make you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
I think I think we're we're miscommunicating a little bit
because I'm not I'm not trashing their assets. And what
I'm trashing or trashing really is the idea that they
can just get someone. And that's not trusting you, it's
just trasting the idea that's in place that because they
have trade assets, they automatically now have unlocked the you know,
the ability to trade for you Giannis so to speak,

(01:00:32):
like that is still not there. Like what I'm wondering,
I can rephrase it, who is the best players they
can get with those assets? Like I know what you're saying, like, oh,
they can probably get Cycloping and Jimmy Butler without relinquishing
those assets fully aware, But like if they haven't done that,
so we have to assume that they're either thinking bigger
or trying something else. And what I'm wondering is who's

(01:00:53):
that guy out there who is perhaps available for that package.
That's what I don't know. I don't have a name.
Is that Kevin Durant.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
It might be Kevin Durant? Is it would they be?
They'd be a sneaky d Aaron Fox team. If they're
willing to put everything on the table.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Oh yeah, if the Kings hadn't suddenly started winning again,
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Im partly without him, But yeah, I mean like he
could maybe they're worried about his next contract, or maybe
he does want out based off that nial reporting, I
wonder if they put everything on the table, let's say
every pick at least? Ye, could they get LaMelo Ball?

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Oh, you're so asking the wrong guy about them, because
I would not put all those picks in for LaMelo Ball?

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Could they get? Okay? And this is like, but maybe
you use Dennis Shuder as the matching money? Does Kobe
White do it for you? If you have to give
up the equivalent of multiple first recording?

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Why no? No, I think I think you have if
I think the assumption here is you'd use the contract
of Aaron Aaron Wiggins, Wow, Andrew Wiggins and all of
the draft picks and then all right they can aggregate. Sorry,
so the contracts of Interrowiggans, Danny Schhorter. What did that
gets you? That gets you to thirty nine point two?

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Hey, if their interest is still interested, they could probably
get Paul Georgian now, right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Might even get some drav toicquit you backs messed up,
I know, but like it's just I think it's so
like I understand what you're saying, and I agree with
you that it has been performative. I agree with you that
the plan is nonsensical or at least not transparent. But
I'm also just trying to play devil's advocate in the

(01:02:32):
sense that I don't know who the player out there is.
I do.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
What I will say then, though, is that it's a
failure on their part because of all the name like
we've read, like the Siakam stuff specifically, right, all these
players have never been good enough. And if those players,
all NBA caliber players for the most part, have not
been good enough to elevate you in your book, you
should have been running, running and developing your team in
a fundamentally different way than you have been.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
You know what, I what I really thought in terms
of like when when the town's discourse when he was
with the Wolves, like, oh, he's gonna get traded. I
thought he was the guy that they were well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
But they weren't, Like didn't they not want his contract
or something?

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Right? So, and I think that's where things become to
fall begins to fall apart, because if one of the
best spacing big men of all time isn't interesting to you,
knowing full well, he's perfectly fine. Hys you know everyone
knew that his rebounding also with returns to form after
not playing next to Rudy Gobert Like this. I don't.

(01:03:37):
I don't know about you, but I'm not shocked at
his performance in New York this year, whatsoever. I was like, yeah,
makes sense more more more feature role, like more opportunities and.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Him man him next to Draymond that really interesting defense, right,
Like that's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
And and and the thing is they've just you're right,
they poop pooed everything that's come up. So either there
must be some you know, galaxy brained idea in there
that just that they're sitting on and just waiting sexecute
while Steph is approaching forty I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Yeah, are they waiting on the age forty five Lebron
James to request a trade or something? I don't I
don't understand that's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
The guy though, so that that's the guy where maybe
that's actually I don't like, I know you might be
joking here, but like I honestly think that might have
been the goal, because there was that point last season
if you remember, where it was kind of a little
bit up in the air whether he was going to
return or not, like even last trade deadline. Yeah, there
are some rumplings about perhaps the Lakers should just explore

(01:04:38):
the market a little bit, and immediately we heard like immediately, oh,
the Warriors are interested, So that might be the guy.
So that's the.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
A team that's better than you right now, Lebron James.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
So I just, I I just I'm not saying that,
let's use Siakham or Towns as the example that they
traded for those guys that they would have won the title.
But if you're trying to tell me that you were
actually in on mary market and so you thought he
was good enough, but Jimmy Butler isn't good enough, like
fuck all the way off it like that. I here's what,

(01:05:15):
here's my issue. If you think that the Warriors just
shouldn't make a trade, they should prioritize the future and
keep their assets. I think that's perfectly acceptable. I wish
I want better for their fans. I want Steph to
want better for the team in general. I like that
he is. The confidence that he thinks maybe they could
catch lightning in a bottle is currently constructed. I understand
that entire perspective, but don't try don't treat us or

(01:05:38):
don't don't try to treat your fans like a bunch
of idiots. And that's what I think has happened here,
and I like it's it's kind of shameful because like
I want to see Steph play meaningful basketball games. And
look this podcast specifically, we said, oh, maybe the Warriors
are gonna better than we thought at the start of
the season. So yeah, there's ebbs and flows to all
of this, but guess what we are months removed from

(01:05:59):
the twelve three and now you're in danger of maybe
not making the playoffs in the Western Conference, And so
that creates the impetus of why would we make a
trade when we're like already this low and this just
they're just full of excuses and I don't think they
actually have a coherent plan in place, which whether it's
with regard to Steph of today or the future of
the franchise, that's what I think is most shameful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
You know what we need, we need them to trade
for Rudy Gobert and then find out once and for
all if teammates can get technicals for fighting with each other.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Yeah, Julius Randall might be available if that does anything
for them I need. I was honestly being facetious.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Well see, I know you were, but I kind of
think that might be the one scene where you could
sort of negate some of his weaknesses because of Steph
and the gravity.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Maybe, but you know the problem with someone in his salary. Yeah,
and this is what I do. Recognize that you need
to be willing in most cases to give up Andrew
Wiggins to get that guy. And I understand that Wiggins
is critical to what you're doing. But we've also kind
of seen this movie before, for like, you can't let
Andrew Wiggins stop you from acquiring someone who elevates your ceiling.

(01:07:13):
That's not Julius Randall, to be clear. But yeah, so
I think we can move on to this item now,
though more there are centers for sale. Yeah, so, Mark
Stein and Jake Fisher over at the Steinline Slash The
People's Insider said that the following bigs remain actively available.
Chris Bouche the best big in the world, John Collins, Jonas,

(01:07:34):
found Tunis and Nicolo Vucevic. Michael Scatto of Hoopsype added
Robert Williams the Third to the fold, and he also
noted that it's going to take multiple seconds to get
RW three and Valance unis. What do you make of
this list? Who do you think commands the most, Who
do you think is most likely to get moved, Who
can make the biggest impact on a team. What are
just your thoughts about this?

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Well, again, you know how, I'm mister safety over here.
If someone calls me and says, well, you're interested in
Robert Williams the third, and it's gonna take you multiple seconds,
I'm politely declining because.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Oh I would do it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
I would not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
I am rob I am r W three pilled from
like half a decade ago.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Don't get me wrong, I love him. It's a question
of health, question of availability. I again, I have to
take these things into consideration. If I'm a general manager
and I'm relinquishing assets, I want to make damn sure
that the guy I'm trading for is available. I can't trust.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
That for multiple seconds. I would roll the dice.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Okay, So what is multiple seconds?

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Two?

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Is it five if it's two, but like if multiple
seconds is five the J Crowder Special as we call it. No,
I'm not like that's just how many teams that aren't
rebuilding even just have five seconds?

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Two?

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
If they're like projects to be low enough in the
near future.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
I would you have done let's just say Phoenix's package
for Nick rich would you've given up that amount of
second round equity for Robert Williams the third.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
That's a really good question because Williams is better than
Nick Richards, but his availability sucks compared to Nick, so
like I feel that kind of evens it out. Yeah,
I mmm, I probably would specifically for Phoenix, Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Oh no, I just meant in general, like that's the
because Phoenix the money to get there, they wouldn't need.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
A general MANA sure I probably would. But again I'm
I'm reiterating myself. For I'm mister safety. I wouldn't dare.
I wouldn't dare, Like I could trade him and he
could go down after six games, and I'm sitting there
looking like a freaking idiot, for.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
You're not for giving up three seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
Like if you're saying getting one right, I'm getting I'm
getting a two and a.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Half seconds like what And the other thing here is
Phoenix didn't send out you know, josh A Kogi had
played for them, but it wasn't if you're not sending
out like someone who's really important to you, like he said,
if you're the Knicks. As an example, you can make
the case that Robinson in seconds, even though Robinson's availability
this year has been worse than our W three's, does

(01:10:09):
that look bad because you're kind of trading one injury
prone center for another one and someone who could be
ultra useful if he's healthy. Like so that might be
a case where it's, oh, do you have egg on
your face if our W three gets hurt and he
up three seconds? But if you're just giving up, yeah,
matching salary to do it, I would go to three seconds.
I would do it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Look, we agree that he's played fifty three games over
the past three seasons.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Do we agree? In this political climate? Can I just
claim that that's actually.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Fake alternative facts? True? Yes, I would just like to
say he's averaging seventeen point seven games played on over
the past three seasons.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Isn't that more than Joelle embiid?

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Look, man, I you know what I'm gonna go with,
stick with my gut here. My answer is no, because
availability is so important to me. If I'm building an
NBA roster and if I'm looking at how I'm managing
the salary cap, I just can't justify it over myself.
But again that's me. I'm not saying that you shouldn't.
I know you'd pulled the trigger, but you also a
lawless maverick who plays by your own rules. So I

(01:11:11):
respect the hell out of that. You're far more brave
than I would ever be.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
I would be like, yeah, I do something to If
I was Detroit, I'd be like, hey, you want that
Toronto second round pick this year and just give us
RW three. We'll take him into or I would do
something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Yeah, no, And I respect the hell out of it.
And then I if I'm playing you, I would just
like laugh my ass off if he's injured again.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
And even if he's not injured, he's probably giving you
like it needs to be the right team. Because he's
not giving you more than twenty minutes per game on
a regular basis. It's just not happening.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
Not but those twenty minutes can be really good I'm
not going to diminish his play like defensively, I trust him.
I think he's a far underrated passer. I think shot
locking wise, he's still got the timing, he's got the
anticipation of it. He's still a great, great shot converter
around the rim. Like I see the value there. And look,
if this guy was averaging four games per year, Hell yes,

(01:12:02):
I would have done it immediately.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Do any of these other big stickle your fancy Warriors
have been linked to vouch by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
By the way, I actually liked that for him. I
think that makes sense. I don't think it's the all
in move because he's not Kevin Durant, even though this
year he's kind of shooting like him, which is wild.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Yeah, is that how do you get there as the Warriors?
Are you waiting for Dennis Shruder to be aggregated on
February fifth and trading him plus Looney.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
To do it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Or you because I think it has to be three
for one if you're not giving up Wiggins otherwise because
you have Looney, Kyle Anderson and h Gary Payton. Second,
those are kind.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Of your wouk If he wanted to go that way.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
Would you give up. But then I guess Dennis Shrudter's
not played well and you're viewing voochs, then is your
offensive hub in the non steph minutes, which which makes
some sense.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Yeah, like why not?

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
So you would do that as them? So Nicola Vucevich
is good enough and not Karl Anthony Towns. I get it,
that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Oh no, I'm just I'm not saying I disagree with them,
but like, yeah, no, it's it's wild, right. But Booch
is he's such a he's such a weird animal right now,
because everything one seems to know that this is just
a hot year, like no one's anticipating this is gonna,
you know, continue past this year because there's like a
fairly long bit of Bull's history of him being extremely inefficient, right,

(01:13:23):
so I think seems are like is this real? That's
the one thing they're asking themselves when they're having this
question about Booch, Is it real? And whatever? It seems
dumb enough to say, yes, totally real. This is the
new vooch. The bulls should squeeze them, but I don't
trust the bulls that do that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
So yeah, the valancedis is that that's if you want
to go really offense first, and you're probably not gonna
get a lot of stretch out of him. But he's
shooting really well from two this.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Year, rebounding as always.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
Yeah, I mean that could be a name that's interesting
for the Warriors because it would be one a small
contract and then one of the mid ends that we
just mentioned. So I don't know. I don't like the
Lakers have been linked to him, Like do you like
any of these big So actually I would like Chris
Bouchet on the Lakers. I like Chris Bouchet everywhere. Who
am I kidding? But like, if you could get off
of the Vanderbilt or gave Vincent contracts and get Chris Bouchet,

(01:14:18):
I probably wouldn't hate that as the Lakers.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Right, And I can also finally shut the mouth of
Afony Davis, so who's always asking for a center, Like
I don't want to play center. I want to play
power forwards, short guy?

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Would you do? So? You could get to Vouch's money
pretty easily as the Lakers if it's only gonna cost
you second round equity. But I don't know if that's
enough to get the problem with the Lakers is so
the money they're sending out just has multiple years.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Left on it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
So if it's Vanderbilt and Vincent and a second, you
need Chicago to like the idea of Vanderbilt and imagine
him being healthy long term. I guess not outside the
realm of possibility. But they're not gonna trade Rui Jalen
Chafino has no like, no real value as an asset,
and you're not trading. You are not traded first vouch
that would.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Be honestly, See, this is this is where it's so
difficult to project Bulls traits because I'm not even kidding.
I know you're always laughing when I'm talking about the Bulls,
just in regards to like their lack of ability to negotiate.
But they're sort of like the Warriors in the sense
that we have no idea what the planet it really is.
We know they're limited in the fact that their management

(01:15:22):
seem isn't allowed to rebuild, nor are they allowed to
go all in for a star, which kind of leaves
them in the middle. We also have no idea what
their sense of value is since they didn't even get
a draft pick back for Alex Caruso. Like they're so
all over the place that when we try to apply
logic to what they should seek in a return, like oh,

(01:15:42):
when they'd be satisfied with only getting it too, like
a second round pick alongside Jared Vanderbilt and gate Vincent. Dude,
Maybe maybe they'll be fine with Maybe they'll be the
one who acts the pick, like that's where we are.
We have no idea. Maybe they'll be like, oh, we
love Jared Vanderbilt so much, we're gonna give you a
protect first. Like this team is so unpredictable that I

(01:16:04):
can't sit here in good consciences go, well, the Bulls
should actually do this very logical thing, because there's no
logic connected to them. I have no idea what to expect,
and any analysis towards what the Bulls are thinking and
what the bull should do is completely pointless as to
what they might have actually doing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
And I would be interested in. I know John Collins.
I think he saw it on with a hip injury
and has been for most of January.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
He'd be fun of the Warriors too.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Do you think just because he's like a pure four,
you can't really I mean they're a team where you've
used him.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
I love it he can pick and pop. He can
pick and roll. He's a lob thread. He rebounds like look,
Draymond can play the file all be a small ball,
but he like in the half court setting, like just
just I know they don't play a lot of pig
and roll there, and that's that's the one thing that
might make me hesitate a little bit. But short role

(01:16:58):
action with Collins playing the base line, Oh, it could
be gorgeous. There's a world where in that could be gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
There are any other teams that you would like because
he makes I'm curious what the ask would be because
Utah doesn't necessarily need more picks and they're not a
team that's, oh, we need to get off his money
for next season. But he's also just he does have
his limitations. He has paid a good amount of money.
I'd just be curious what the market would be for
him and which teams could because he would be interesting
in Detroit, like Tim Hardaway Junior for maybe a second

(01:17:28):
for John Collins or is it just Tim Hardaway Junior
for John Collins. I might go in a different direction,
but that would be by the way Detroit would have
to do. John Collins is like, we'll play him in
one big lineups and if you don't feel confident about that,
you move on.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Just get Let me just look up the salary for Collins.
I don't remember it off the top of my head.
I think it's like twenty six.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Right, thought he was a twenty five and a half
or something.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
Twenty six and a half. All right, a little memory
I have left in my golden years here. Okay, so
that's probably gonna be a little tough to find a trade. Now,
wait a second, So they had I was thinking the
Raptures using Bruce Brown's expiring.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
Oh that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
Yeah, I kind of like that for him. I think
they need someone I like before the season before, by
the way, I want to really flesh this out, before
Yaka Pearle suddenly blew up and became much better than
he was before, especially offensively. I suggested a deal. I
think it was Bruce Brown and your Chris Bouchet for
DeAndre Ayden because I thought, all right, look, let's let's

(01:18:35):
get a more offensive focused, you know, center in there,
who also can play both sides of the floor. But
now that Purle is playing the way that he is,
I kind of want to stick with him. But I
do think they need another interior scorer, someone who's a
little bit more of a high flyer, someone who's just
kind of reliant on others to score, like so, someone

(01:18:58):
who can be a lob target for both Quickly and
Scottie Barnes and hell even Archie Barrett. I wouldn't hate
some type of framework there between Bruce Brown for John Collins.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
No, I didn't think about them as a team. I
guess that'd be. But you have I mean, if you're
Chris Bouchet, you're gonna move on from but you do
have Peerle and Kelly Olynok, so what is his role
long term there? But he would give you he would
kind of combine like the stretch and the traditional big stuff.
So that makes some sense. What about what about san Antonio? Hmm, Yeah,

(01:19:38):
you don't sound sure, or you're free to say no.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
I don't because I so obviously, as you're well aware,
I watched a ton of San Antonio because of Wenby.
I think you need Collins under those circumstances to lean
into the three point shot a little bit more. And
I don't think that's the right approach for him. I
think I would I I would prefer to find a

(01:20:00):
team where he's actually leaning towards more so like being
a law threat than being overly reliant on the three,
because san Antonio, right now, they just need more spacing,
like I think, I think offensively he or from a
scoring perspective, John Collins is where Jeremy Sohan probably is
in a couple of years. Mm hm. But I like

(01:20:23):
the ability of having so hand handle the ball defended
at a high level. He's probing the defense a lot
more like his ball handling is so much more evolved.
I would like to stick with that if I'm san Antonio.
What's a team the Kings. That's been one that's mentioned
all the time. It's sort of like Kevin.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Herder and Trey Lyles. Yeah love John Collins. Nice little
reunion between Trey and Utah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
Yeah love that one. Love that one actually, because you
know what they need someone who can consistently get points
off the attention given to others. Yes, love that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
No other Kings are really like jumping out to me.
He'd be interesting, like if you just step laddered, Like
what if you just did all like kind of your
expiring contracts and then whatever draft echo do you need
and put him on Houston.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
Oh, next to Shane Gun who finally have a lopt target,
like or not finally because he has.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
To they have Smith there and Aman Thompson already. But
like he's probably he definitely has more utility than a
Jacque Landell, Jeff Green or Steven Adams at the point.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
I'm wondering if he'll get tough shots to justify anything
like his role.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
What about when you're paying him twenty almost twenty seven
million because he's got to pick that option up next year? Surely?

Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
Yeah? Does it? What about the Lakers? I just don't
why the Jazz is gonna want their coll Like, do
you move the protections on your twenty twenty seven pick
to entitle?

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
What does he fit? Does he fit like the stylistic Yeah,
that Lakers?

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
I mean he's you could say you can just tell
him if you did. Hey, John Collins is technically the
center even though ad is still the center.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
I'm still I'm still leaning Toronto on this one because
I think I think there's a fit there that makes
some level of sense, you know what seems to make
the perfect sense on but they just don't have like
the contract nor we should you mess with the product
that's working. I'd love him in Boston, just as some
dude who comes in and just scores and does nothing more.

(01:22:25):
Just like, all right, Look, whenever I'm on the floor,
I'm jacking up shots, I'm getting rebounds, and I'm trusting
everyone around me to defend for my level. That's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
Two very quick questions here. First, who among these bigs
that we mentioned, these five Yonnas found Chunisnikolovucevich, John Collins,
Chris Bouchet and RW three are most likely to get moved.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
I think there are more. But if you're asking me
to literally pick one out of the litter, I'm gonna Chris,
say Chris Bouchet because of the fact that he's an
expiring contract. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Now, if I set the over under at two and
a half of these big these five big is getting moved,
do you take any over the under.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
I'm actually gonna go with the over.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
Wow, I'd probably go under. Not gonna lie.

Speaker 2 (01:23:07):
There's a reason I have a selfish motive to that,
because every single year I live stream the trade deadline
like in a studio setup. So I can't sit here
and say I don't predict any trades, because then no
one is going to tune in. I want people to
tune in, so I'm rooting for trades and that's why
I'm taking this approach that I am.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Unless you have anything else to add, are you able
to just tell our listeners viewers where they can find
you and all the fantastic work that you do.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Yes, you can find me over at Blue Sky, at
MSJ NBA, you can find me at Yahoo Sports. You
can find me at Forbes. You can find me at
Sports Illustrated, specifically Draft Digest. I'm also doing a bunch
of Danish stuff that you probably wouldn't understand, which is
totally fair. Oh and also, do you mind if I
pluck something? I have a promo code Dana. Is it

(01:23:53):
fine if I pluck that?

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
No? I absolutely mind?

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
All right? Cool. So I'm actually partnering her up with HelloFresh,
who are doing these meal kits that are being delivered
to your door. If you go in and type by
Busser beater in one word, you'll get a certain percentage off,
Like I know what you can get off in Denmark,
but I found out today it's actually code that works worldwide.
So go into HelloFresh dot com. It's hype in busser

(01:24:18):
beater in one word and you'll get a significant portion
of five percentage off on your first end.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
Chad that is exciting and go follow moret on all
the social channels. The links to those will be in
the podcast a YouTube description. Until next time and as
always we beat the shot out to the one, the only,
the Hello, freshest of the fresh mister Frank Meeler PETI

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Suns/Hornets Trade Reaction & NBA Rumors Round-Up - Featuring Dan Favale

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Suns/Hornets Trade Reaction & NBA Rumors Round-Up - Featuring Dan Favale