May 6, 2025 • 21 mins
Mort & Dan discuss Game 1 between the Cleveland Cavaliers and Indiana Pacers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What is up, Fellasikos. I am Dan fa Valley, joined
by Mort Jensen of the NBA Podcast, Fame, of Forbes, Fame,
of Yahoo Sports, fame, and of OnlyFans Celebrity. We're gonna talk,
We're gonna overreact to Pacers Cavaliers Game one and the
rest of the series. I Mort picked the Cavs to
(00:22):
win in five. That has aged about as well as
Cody Zeller's hairline. What are your thoughts? What's your big
biggest takeaway or one biggest overarching thought coming out of
that Game one between India and Cleveland? And why is it? Oh,
Darius Garland might be a little important?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah that Look, there's been some narrative around the internet
lately that oh, maybe Darius Garland wasn't as crucial. But like,
if you're building that off of the Heat series, you're nuts,
You're just nuts. I will say I also had Cleveland
in five, although I did hedge my bet a little
bit of Jahu and I did include maybe six because
(01:03):
one of those I am for a reason because and
it's the only series in the playoffs that I'm probably
gonna do that in because the Pacers. Here's the thing
I've said this to you on this show as well before.
This team has a floor that is so incredibly high,
Like whenever they win games, it's never because it's someone
(01:25):
just going bonkers. It's always this very team oriented thing.
We've seen it all throughout the course of the record
season as well. Like I think they might be the
most consistent team in the NBA. Like I haven't done
the statistical analysis in terms of like how much their
point total swings or their defensive ranking swings, but it
(01:46):
just feels like you absolutely know what you're gonna get
with this team.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
And it is competitive spirit.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
It's defense, its offense, it is them rising to the moment,
it's role players stepping up. It's you're just never at
a point where you feel as though they're gonna lose
something by a getzilient point. You're never there the.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Last like sixty or seventy games, including the playoffs. That's
definitely the vibe that they've given off. And their defense
has been way better than people expected. And I've I've
been I'm clearly wrong about this series so far, but
I was in front of well, I also declared I
was out on them, but I was in front of
other people like, no, like this team is a threat,
and me picking the Cavaliers in five, I won underestimated
(02:30):
the significance of the Darius Garland big toe injury. I
thought it was really like, oh, they were just it's
the heat, that's why they're holding them out. But it
turns out it's not that. And I also just have
all the respect in the world for the Cavs, didn't
have enough for the Pacers, and I think coming out
of Game one there did feel like there was a
level of the Calves talked a lot about, oh, they
play so fast, we have to be ready, and then
(02:51):
really didn't seem like they were ready for it. But
what I think I've probably underestimated the most about Indiana,
even as I've talked about their function depth, which I
sort of define as it's not just regular season depth,
it's you can pull these different levers in the playoffs
play different guys go deeper than maybe some other teams,
the number of ways in which they can attack you,
(03:13):
in which they can generate maybe switches that they want
without make it feeling like they're hunting, the different cadences
at which they could play. Now. Ever, since Pascal Siakam
has come here, so they're just I call them the
third best team in the East. I would stand by
that they might prove it the second best team in
the East with the way things are going right now.
I would also caution, though, if I'm the Cavs, I'm
(03:34):
just not panicking like there's just I think there's things
that they could clean up, and aside from the Garland absence,
I do think one of the things, and I'm not
sure if you notice this, I know part of it
is ingrained into their base defense, but there was just
too many wide open threes that they conceded to Indy,
and it felt like after the first quarter when Indy
shot like eighty two percent or eighty three percent from
(03:57):
two point range, that Cleveland was like, oh no, we
need to play off more of these shooters, especially if
Jared Allen is like he's gonna be switched on to Haliburton,
and I get that impetus, But when you're not hitting
your threes at the same clip, and when you don't
have Darius Garland to help you maybe climb out of that,
I think you need to play it. I don't even
want to say more straight up, but just like Max
(04:17):
Strews doesn't need to drift over fifteen feet to the
strong side and off his guy because Jared Allen has
switched on to Tyre's Haliburton, Like you live with Tyre's
Haliburton getting in the lane and hope maybe your backside
rotations are better to me. But I thought that was
something that Cleveland has because some teams you look at
it and I would say, like maybe the knicks of
teams that are still alive in the playoffs where if
they get beat doing something specific, Oh, I don't know
(04:40):
if they have the tools to fix this. With Cleveland.
When I watched it, the two things were all right,
Donovan Mitchell's gonna shoot better. Although I do think that
reinforced the importance of Garland. He had Mitchell in that
game one had the second highest usage rate of the
year for himself, so it's like they need Garland to
kind of help map out the floor. But Mitchell will
hit more of a shots, and I just I think
(05:01):
Cleveland's defense can be a lot better. I know there
was a lot of talk about their offense the shots
they missed, and also just I think they were a
minus thirty from three point range. But I actually think
the biggest thing that stood out again, aside from that
All Star sized hole with Daris Garland Ott, there was Okay, hey,
like you need to I don't. I'm not even saying
play up on them more because you don't want some
of their ball handlers to get by you. But I'm
(05:22):
just not freaking out. Like there was a Jars Walker
got in the lane and Cleveland's defense like working itself
and I'm like, no, no, that doesn't need to happen.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I agree, I do have a question there. So because
there's sort of a litmus tests here, we saw at
some point at one point Deantre Hunter more or less
conceding a three to Bendick Mathern like he just played
off of him.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Matherin pulled Dubynie nailed.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It is Matherin the type of guy where you feel
comfortable doing that because I can go back and forth
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Where are you talking about playing up on him or
just sagging off of him?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Sacking off like because he like he hit forty four
percent in the regular season, he's streaky. So like, if
that is a conscious choice on behalf of Cleveland to say, look,
we are fine if Bennetticte Matherrin beats us right, I'm
I'm I'm probably okay with that specific game plan, but
(06:20):
it's the ripple effect that I probably have an issue
with because when he's when he hit that shot, they
were already had they had it cooking, they had it brewing,
things were working, and I think as a seam you
get on this collective role, and it just struck me
as odd that that specific point in time, whenever everyone
else was hitting that, Hunter was like no, no, Ben,
(06:44):
It's fine, you can take that three.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We're like, you know, I think, so what you're saying,
I definitely think that you should be basing it more
off the flow of the game, where it's we're not
hitting our threes and they're like Nie Smith and Nemhard
as an example, we're nine of ten on wide open threes,
and so it's like, okay, like there needs to be
maybe some type of adjustment there. I think as a player,
(07:07):
if you're gonna do that with Bennanick mat like, so
he what was Mathren three of five from three? If
I'm Cleveland, I just if he does that every game, fine,
I guess I was more concerned. I agree with you though,
like when you're looking at how the game is unfolding,
maybe it's time to be more aggressive there. But I
think I was more concerned about, like, oh, Indie's actually
in their half court offense, right there are guys getting downhill.
(07:30):
It happened with Mathrin, I said it happened with Walker.
I almost get the impetus to overreact when it's Tyre's Haliburton,
but even when it's Andrew Nemhard, I'm just like you,
guys don't need to be flying around off of other guys.
It just it sets up too many easy looks for them.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
This playoff hard though apparently that's different. Well that is different.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Again, fine, but like the Benedick mather were like that,
I think jaris Walker. I saw him have like two
drives in that game, and there's way too much attention
paid to him getting downhill there. So maybe that's the
wrong thing to focus on. But that was sort of
the thing that I golomb onto. But the mathroom question
is a good one because I think in a vacuum,
you just say, oh, if we lost, because Bennick mathern
(08:11):
went seven of nine from three, okay, you want to
stick to that model. But it just felt too universal,
I guess is what I was getting. Maybe, yeah, it
took me so long to get here, but that approach
felt like it was too universal and not enough case specific, right.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And I will say also, I loved how Indy actually
kind of let Donnovan Mitchell be the guy because they
they invited him into the lane several times. It's the
old Vince Carter defense. And for those who are not
as old as me, which is a lot of listeners,
(08:48):
I presume the Vince Carter defense is basically, when he
was in Toronto, he was very dynamic, but he was
inclined to have games where he'd score like thirty one points,
but it'd take him twenty nine shi to get there.
So you kind of gave him some leeway to take
shots because you figure, if he's going to absorb all
those shots and it's somewhat inefficient, those are shots that's
(09:11):
not going to go to open shooters. Those are shots
that are not going to.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Go to.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Mopete or whoever it was out there at that point
in Tide Like look that that defense was also applied
to Vince when he made it to New Jersey and
was playing with Richard Jefferson and Jason gidd so like
that mentality.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
To apply that.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
To Donovan Mitchell because Garland isn't out there, I thought
was smart. They also applied it to tide Rome, which look,
if you're scoring twenty one points in a game, that's good,
but if it takes you twenty shots to get there,
it's less good. Let's just be honest, it's less good.
With Mitchell, thirty three points took him thirty shots to
(09:51):
get there. Thirty eight percent of Evan Mopley's shots shots
in Game one were threes, where he's a six to
eleven dynamo who can create his shot down low virtually
whenever he wants. But like they kind of gave him
that perimeter and to decide, hey, you know what, we
were gonna give you space to pull up on the
brake where, by the way, can we just site note,
(10:14):
Dear Evan Wopley, I know.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
That you've become a better three point shooter.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Love that, by the way, But when they're backing up
like that, that doesn't mean you have to.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Spot up for three.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
That means you go to the rim because you're long,
athletic and probably quicker than they are. Just use it
because that's a good thing for you. You actually have
the advantage. So like they they just knew what to do.
They read up on it, they knew exactly how to
like goat Cleveland into being a lesser version of themselves.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
So good dow the Pacers. They did everything right.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Lots of adjustments I assume will be coming for Kenny
Atkinson's troops in game two.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
The other thing I wanted to ask you too is
what did you make of Cleveland's approach with Tyres Halbert. Well,
it's you know, it's kind of twofold for me, is
the approach to guarding Tyres Haliburton, who, by the way,
while all these other pacers are hitting these wide open threes,
he was one to five on guarded threes. So you
could argue that, like Cleveland almost got lucky in this center.
But again, you're not gonna have Nie Smith and them
(11:12):
hartsheet as well as they did. Because I guess what
I'm asking is, were you surprised that we just didn't
see more of Isaaca Coro in general or Isaaca Coro
and you know DeAndre Hunter specifically on Tyres Haliburton, and
just based off what you did see if Cleveland wants
to play this way. I know he didn't have the
(11:33):
when you look at the on offs, like Evan Mobley
was a minus twenty in this game. But do you
give any merit to the idea that, oh, maybe this
isn't gonna be a Jared Allen series if they're gonna
feel so inclined to to help when he's one of
the guys caught in space.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
This is not something I thought about, So it's it's
pretty difficult to give you an answer on that. Did
I didn't really pay attention. I think to oh, has
Isaaca Coro like been enough on tyreus Aalburt today? I
generally think Isoka Kurr tends to play a little too
few minutes in the playoffs, especially now. I understand he's
(12:11):
a weird player because if he's not hitting from the corners,
he's he becomes like a fully one side player, a
one way player, and that is just so tough to
live with in the playoffs, especially now and in the
second round where things get tough. But his defensive versatility
I think is very underrated. I wouldn't hate to see
him stick more on Tyree's in the coming games, but
(12:33):
it's not something I thought about.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
To just be completely transparent, I.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Don't trust his offense, like and that's I think that
to your point about how he hasn't played consistently in
the postseason for his career, where he sees his minutes
tamp down, I really did think this is just something.
Maybe I'm latching onto it because I was wrong about it.
I just thought we were gonna see more of DeAndre
Hunter specifically in those situations, but that might be something
I might try. It's like just he's not the best defender.
(12:58):
He's not super long, but like he does have size
and maybe you could he's big.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, he's like a big six eight long arms like
and and oh, I've so I don't remember who wrote this.
This is years ago. I think was it before the draft,
might have been before he was drafted. Someone said in
their pre draft analysis about Hunter, and I agree with
it entirely that when you look at his size, like
(13:24):
his torso is very broad, Like he even like you
we can talk about, oh he's six' eight long, armed
but like he's.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Got a very broad torso, so like he just takes
up this.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Much he takes out so much space and he looks
like significantly.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Bigger than what he.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Is, like if you he was listed at six,' ten
no one would, be BAD and i you'd believe it because
he just looks enormous. Out THERE so i do think
the element of size can definitely be a bit of. A, deterrent.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah anything else on that, GAME one. I don't i
don't really want to boil it DOWN to I think
cleveland's going to hit.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
More SHOTS but i do. HAVE something i do Have Something.
ERONIE smith, i know wide, Open shots that's that's. One
thing but he's always been one of those PLAYERS who
i think has been underrated in, playoff context specifically because. He's,
scalable like if you're gonna give him, those shots you, Know,
(14:19):
what yeah he can. Hit them it's not a, question,
of oh if you up his three, point volume he's
probably gonna be. Less, efficient no you can scale that
dude up significantly if the. Need arises and if you
leave him alone behind the three point line and you do,
so regularly he is going to punish. You consistently so
it feels as THOUGH, the nba and this isn't Just,
(14:43):
the cleveland this isn't just the. Cap leaders it's, GENERALLY
speaking i think there are a lot of teams IN
the nba that who aren't really Aware of, hot one
how good of a shooter he, Actually Is, nie smith
but also just how scalable. HE is i think that
is still a secret That the pacers are very much
enjoying because he is so good and he's so crucial
(15:05):
to their play at. The wingspot he can play down
a position to, the two he can play of the
position to the four like he Is a swiss.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Army Knife he's he's become a much better rebounder.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Of.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
LATE now i know he didn't let.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Them offensive Rebounds in.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Round one he did and he's so he's not a
like an assist creator in, that sense but he does
move the ball pretty quickly. AND regularly i think when
he's in when he's in, the game the ball doesn't
stick with. Him like he moves it on quickly if
he doesn't have a shot like he's not, a playmaker
(15:40):
but he, just knows, OH yeah i need to get
the ball on of my hands, right Now because i'm
not a shot creator like this is one of those
guys who just has complete role acceptance and that goes
so so far in. The postseason big Kudos TO. Aaron
e smith for just being consistently great at continuing to be.
UNDERVALUED somehow i don't know how he. Does, IT yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I look i wrote about him too right before the
start of. The series i'm glad you. Mentioned him the
scalability is like the perfect word, for me. Even you
so like the quicker decision making that he's kind of
honed over the past couple. Of years he doesn't like
shoot an astronomical percentage, on drives which is just someone
who will make the quick decision to put the ball on.
The floor he's, pretty strong gets shoulders into guys. CAN
draw i think he drew a foul on a Drive in,
(16:24):
game one AND then i really think. IT'S big i
think he did what he end up with five fouls in.
This one so there will be times where it's like
he might it feels like he might be in, foul
trouble but less series He's. Defending giannis you seem to
spend a lot of Time On max Struce in, game
one so like the fact that you mentioned scale up
or down and this was actually a number to put
that too is when you look at his positional distribution
(16:48):
of how he defended the one through four. This year
the only players who like matched it like that versatility
in as many Minutes Were jimmy Butler and Shake. Gilges
alexander and so it's like not the most, elite company,
you're like You're Using Shay gil zugdan or be, a
disruptor but just this idea that you have, someone, who
oh he Will, defend giannis but he will also Go Defend,
(17:08):
max strus but like you will also see him go
on to some smaller guards and there will just, be,
Like yeah yanni's eight in, that series but he kind
of limits the way, he plays limits the amount of
help that you're gonna have to send. His way and
it's just that like it you're right underappreciated the best
way to, say IT because i, would, SAY like i
Think THE cavs i saw him spend the most. TIME
on i thought we were gonna see him more on
(17:29):
mobilely a, little BIT but i think we saw Him,
On hunter Jerome, and shreuce three very different players and
MAYBE like i guess you wouldn't call them, like size
but like that's real versatility there And super Plug and play.
On offense so THAT is i think you at this
point you probably made the Case That andrew demhard is
just the team's biggest. As Playoff andrew nemhart is an
experience and you get Those moments pepper throughout the regular
(17:51):
season where he's hitting these off the, dribble jumpers but
he just bust out a step back and. Drain it
in addition to shouldering probably their heaviest at least in
this it'll be their heaviest. DEFENSIVE workload i think you
could make the Case For, Nie, smith rciakham Or even turner.
Last series so this team. FUNCTIONAL depth i think we
kind of just put Like The indiana pacers can continue
(18:12):
to prove. Everybody Wrong and i'm not ready to count
Out the calves in, this series but for idiots like
me who are ready to Pick the calves, in five
it does feel like this, one's Destined whether garland Plays
in game two. Or not to, GO.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Longer I had nemhart as one of my FIRST round
x factors in a piece Over at yahoo before.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
The playoffs it's.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
The one PICK where i felt very comfortable with THAT
because i went in a lot of different directions with
a lot of other teams. And players that was the
one THING where, I, immediately oh we're At. The, pacers,
now Yeah That's. Andrew nemhart he just feels like a
guy who kind of hides himself a little bit in the,
regular season almost, by design, like yeah you, Know what
(18:56):
i'm gonna do this, eighty percent and like, that's fine
we'll make it through the play the. Regular season now
we make it to. The playoffs now's, my time. Fresh
Legs now i've got eighty two games under, my belt
or however many games. He played now's the time to
roll up my sleeves and go. To work, That's INTERESTING
like i don't think a lot of players will attag it,
(19:18):
like THAT but i almost have to assume that that's
the plan for him because the contrast is just. SO stark,
i cannot in any way imagine that he's approaching the
game in the same way in the regular season that
he is in.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
THE playoffs i kind of refuse to. BELIEVE that, i.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Mean he's Got That jimmy butler gene, in, him right
or do we call It The buddy? Heal? Gen now
After that game, seven.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Again, oh yeah anything else on, THIS series, i thought
What did cleveland post like in AN eighty i was, worried,
about like these are two of like the most tepid
rebounding teams when they play like good sized players at
the four.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
AND five a lot of THE time I thought i
didn't really was there anything that stood out there. TO you,
I mean indy had like a plus SIX advantage i
think on the. Offensive glass but that feels like a
part of this series that just might kind of shim
me back.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And, FORTH yeah i, Think so it's NOT something i
paid a lot of. Attention to you also have to
remember these games are on at. Odd hours, for me
there are limits to like the minutia Of what i'm pinking.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Up anything biggest thing you're gonna be Watching in game
two aside From Will darius garland play.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So Actually donovan mitchell, just BECAUSE like, I said i
thought he got goaded into taking certain shots and he kind.
OF obliged i would like to see if he goes
back to the tape and, it's like you, know what
some of these, Driving, LANES yeah i can, use them
but that DOESN'T mean i have to. Finish them LIKE
maybe i use myself as a little bit of a
(20:51):
DECOY maybe i break down. The defense maybe we have
some weak side action cutting to. The basket because of,
THOSE movements i wouldn't, be surprised, you know to use
The ted, lasso phrase, you know you shouldn't pass, too
may you should pass. Through may that would be the
way to go. ABOUT it i think he has To
(21:12):
Go jamie tart on. Their asses and with, that.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Said until, next time and, as always weave a shout
out to, the one, the only, The Indelible Frank. Nila
quina
What is up, Fellasikos. I am Dan fa Valley, joined
by Mort Jensen of the NBA Podcast, Fame, of Forbes, Fame,
of Yahoo Sports, fame, and of OnlyFans Celebrity. We're gonna talk,
We're gonna overreact to Pacers Cavaliers Game one and the
rest of the series. I Mort picked the Cavs to
(00:22):
win in five. That has aged about as well as
Cody Zeller's hairline. What are your thoughts? What's your big
biggest takeaway or one biggest overarching thought coming out of
that Game one between India and Cleveland? And why is it? Oh,
Darius Garland might be a little important?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah that Look, there's been some narrative around the internet
lately that oh, maybe Darius Garland wasn't as crucial. But like,
if you're building that off of the Heat series, you're nuts,
You're just nuts. I will say I also had Cleveland
in five, although I did hedge my bet a little
bit of Jahu and I did include maybe six because
(01:03):
one of those I am for a reason because and
it's the only series in the playoffs that I'm probably
gonna do that in because the Pacers. Here's the thing
I've said this to you on this show as well before.
This team has a floor that is so incredibly high,
Like whenever they win games, it's never because it's someone
(01:25):
just going bonkers. It's always this very team oriented thing.
We've seen it all throughout the course of the record
season as well. Like I think they might be the
most consistent team in the NBA. Like I haven't done
the statistical analysis in terms of like how much their
point total swings or their defensive ranking swings, but it
(01:46):
just feels like you absolutely know what you're gonna get
with this team.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
And it is competitive spirit.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
It's defense, its offense, it is them rising to the moment,
it's role players stepping up. It's you're just never at
a point where you feel as though they're gonna lose
something by a getzilient point. You're never there the.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Last like sixty or seventy games, including the playoffs. That's
definitely the vibe that they've given off. And their defense
has been way better than people expected. And I've I've
been I'm clearly wrong about this series so far, but
I was in front of well, I also declared I
was out on them, but I was in front of
other people like, no, like this team is a threat,
and me picking the Cavaliers in five, I won underestimated
(02:30):
the significance of the Darius Garland big toe injury. I
thought it was really like, oh, they were just it's
the heat, that's why they're holding them out. But it
turns out it's not that. And I also just have
all the respect in the world for the Cavs, didn't
have enough for the Pacers, and I think coming out
of Game one there did feel like there was a
level of the Calves talked a lot about, oh, they
play so fast, we have to be ready, and then
(02:51):
really didn't seem like they were ready for it. But
what I think I've probably underestimated the most about Indiana,
even as I've talked about their function depth, which I
sort of define as it's not just regular season depth,
it's you can pull these different levers in the playoffs
play different guys go deeper than maybe some other teams,
the number of ways in which they can attack you,
(03:13):
in which they can generate maybe switches that they want
without make it feeling like they're hunting, the different cadences
at which they could play. Now. Ever, since Pascal Siakam
has come here, so they're just I call them the
third best team in the East. I would stand by
that they might prove it the second best team in
the East with the way things are going right now.
I would also caution, though, if I'm the Cavs, I'm
(03:34):
just not panicking like there's just I think there's things
that they could clean up, and aside from the Garland absence,
I do think one of the things, and I'm not
sure if you notice this, I know part of it
is ingrained into their base defense, but there was just
too many wide open threes that they conceded to Indy,
and it felt like after the first quarter when Indy
shot like eighty two percent or eighty three percent from
(03:57):
two point range, that Cleveland was like, oh no, we
need to play off more of these shooters, especially if
Jared Allen is like he's gonna be switched on to Haliburton,
and I get that impetus, But when you're not hitting
your threes at the same clip, and when you don't
have Darius Garland to help you maybe climb out of that,
I think you need to play it. I don't even
want to say more straight up, but just like Max
(04:17):
Strews doesn't need to drift over fifteen feet to the
strong side and off his guy because Jared Allen has
switched on to Tyre's Haliburton, Like you live with Tyre's
Haliburton getting in the lane and hope maybe your backside
rotations are better to me. But I thought that was
something that Cleveland has because some teams you look at
it and I would say, like maybe the knicks of
teams that are still alive in the playoffs where if
they get beat doing something specific, Oh, I don't know
(04:40):
if they have the tools to fix this. With Cleveland.
When I watched it, the two things were all right,
Donovan Mitchell's gonna shoot better. Although I do think that
reinforced the importance of Garland. He had Mitchell in that
game one had the second highest usage rate of the
year for himself, so it's like they need Garland to
kind of help map out the floor. But Mitchell will
hit more of a shots, and I just I think
(05:01):
Cleveland's defense can be a lot better. I know there
was a lot of talk about their offense the shots
they missed, and also just I think they were a
minus thirty from three point range. But I actually think
the biggest thing that stood out again, aside from that
All Star sized hole with Daris Garland Ott, there was Okay, hey,
like you need to I don't. I'm not even saying
play up on them more because you don't want some
of their ball handlers to get by you. But I'm
(05:22):
just not freaking out. Like there was a Jars Walker
got in the lane and Cleveland's defense like working itself
and I'm like, no, no, that doesn't need to happen.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I agree, I do have a question there. So because
there's sort of a litmus tests here, we saw at
some point at one point Deantre Hunter more or less
conceding a three to Bendick Mathern like he just played
off of him.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Matherin pulled Dubynie nailed.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It is Matherin the type of guy where you feel
comfortable doing that because I can go back and forth
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Where are you talking about playing up on him or
just sagging off of him?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Sacking off like because he like he hit forty four
percent in the regular season, he's streaky. So like, if
that is a conscious choice on behalf of Cleveland to say, look,
we are fine if Bennetticte Matherrin beats us right, I'm
I'm I'm probably okay with that specific game plan, but
(06:20):
it's the ripple effect that I probably have an issue
with because when he's when he hit that shot, they
were already had they had it cooking, they had it brewing,
things were working, and I think as a seam you
get on this collective role, and it just struck me
as odd that that specific point in time, whenever everyone
else was hitting that, Hunter was like no, no, Ben,
(06:44):
It's fine, you can take that three.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We're like, you know, I think, so what you're saying,
I definitely think that you should be basing it more
off the flow of the game, where it's we're not
hitting our threes and they're like Nie Smith and Nemhard
as an example, we're nine of ten on wide open threes,
and so it's like, okay, like there needs to be
maybe some type of adjustment there. I think as a player,
(07:07):
if you're gonna do that with Bennanick mat like, so
he what was Mathren three of five from three? If
I'm Cleveland, I just if he does that every game, fine,
I guess I was more concerned. I agree with you though,
like when you're looking at how the game is unfolding,
maybe it's time to be more aggressive there. But I
think I was more concerned about, like, oh, Indie's actually
in their half court offense, right there are guys getting downhill.
(07:30):
It happened with Mathrin, I said it happened with Walker.
I almost get the impetus to overreact when it's Tyre's Haliburton,
but even when it's Andrew Nemhard, I'm just like you,
guys don't need to be flying around off of other guys.
It just it sets up too many easy looks for them.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
This playoff hard though apparently that's different. Well that is different.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Again, fine, but like the Benedick mather were like that,
I think jaris Walker. I saw him have like two
drives in that game, and there's way too much attention
paid to him getting downhill there. So maybe that's the
wrong thing to focus on. But that was sort of
the thing that I golomb onto. But the mathroom question
is a good one because I think in a vacuum,
you just say, oh, if we lost, because Bennick mathern
(08:11):
went seven of nine from three, okay, you want to
stick to that model. But it just felt too universal,
I guess is what I was getting. Maybe, yeah, it
took me so long to get here, but that approach
felt like it was too universal and not enough case specific, right.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And I will say also, I loved how Indy actually
kind of let Donnovan Mitchell be the guy because they
they invited him into the lane several times. It's the
old Vince Carter defense. And for those who are not
as old as me, which is a lot of listeners,
(08:48):
I presume the Vince Carter defense is basically, when he
was in Toronto, he was very dynamic, but he was
inclined to have games where he'd score like thirty one points,
but it'd take him twenty nine shi to get there.
So you kind of gave him some leeway to take
shots because you figure, if he's going to absorb all
those shots and it's somewhat inefficient, those are shots that's
(09:11):
not going to go to open shooters. Those are shots
that are not going to.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Go to.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Mopete or whoever it was out there at that point
in Tide Like look that that defense was also applied
to Vince when he made it to New Jersey and
was playing with Richard Jefferson and Jason gidd so like
that mentality.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
To apply that.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
To Donovan Mitchell because Garland isn't out there, I thought
was smart. They also applied it to tide Rome, which look,
if you're scoring twenty one points in a game, that's good,
but if it takes you twenty shots to get there,
it's less good. Let's just be honest, it's less good.
With Mitchell, thirty three points took him thirty shots to
(09:51):
get there. Thirty eight percent of Evan Mopley's shots shots
in Game one were threes, where he's a six to
eleven dynamo who can create his shot down low virtually
whenever he wants. But like they kind of gave him
that perimeter and to decide, hey, you know what, we
were gonna give you space to pull up on the
brake where, by the way, can we just site note,
(10:14):
Dear Evan Wopley, I know.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
That you've become a better three point shooter.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Love that, by the way, But when they're backing up
like that, that doesn't mean you have to.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Spot up for three.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
That means you go to the rim because you're long,
athletic and probably quicker than they are. Just use it
because that's a good thing for you. You actually have
the advantage. So like they they just knew what to do.
They read up on it, they knew exactly how to
like goat Cleveland into being a lesser version of themselves.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
So good dow the Pacers. They did everything right.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Lots of adjustments I assume will be coming for Kenny
Atkinson's troops in game two.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
The other thing I wanted to ask you too is
what did you make of Cleveland's approach with Tyres Halbert. Well,
it's you know, it's kind of twofold for me, is
the approach to guarding Tyres Haliburton, who, by the way,
while all these other pacers are hitting these wide open threes,
he was one to five on guarded threes. So you
could argue that, like Cleveland almost got lucky in this center.
But again, you're not gonna have Nie Smith and them
(11:12):
hartsheet as well as they did. Because I guess what
I'm asking is, were you surprised that we just didn't
see more of Isaaca Coro in general or Isaaca Coro
and you know DeAndre Hunter specifically on Tyres Haliburton, and
just based off what you did see if Cleveland wants
to play this way. I know he didn't have the
(11:33):
when you look at the on offs, like Evan Mobley
was a minus twenty in this game. But do you
give any merit to the idea that, oh, maybe this
isn't gonna be a Jared Allen series if they're gonna
feel so inclined to to help when he's one of
the guys caught in space.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
This is not something I thought about, So it's it's
pretty difficult to give you an answer on that. Did
I didn't really pay attention. I think to oh, has
Isaaca Coro like been enough on tyreus Aalburt today? I
generally think Isoka Kurr tends to play a little too
few minutes in the playoffs, especially now. I understand he's
(12:11):
a weird player because if he's not hitting from the corners,
he's he becomes like a fully one side player, a
one way player, and that is just so tough to
live with in the playoffs, especially now and in the
second round where things get tough. But his defensive versatility
I think is very underrated. I wouldn't hate to see
him stick more on Tyree's in the coming games, but
(12:33):
it's not something I thought about.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
To just be completely transparent, I.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Don't trust his offense, like and that's I think that
to your point about how he hasn't played consistently in
the postseason for his career, where he sees his minutes
tamp down, I really did think this is just something.
Maybe I'm latching onto it because I was wrong about it.
I just thought we were gonna see more of DeAndre
Hunter specifically in those situations, but that might be something
I might try. It's like just he's not the best defender.
(12:58):
He's not super long, but like he does have size
and maybe you could he's big.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, he's like a big six eight long arms like
and and oh, I've so I don't remember who wrote this.
This is years ago. I think was it before the draft,
might have been before he was drafted. Someone said in
their pre draft analysis about Hunter, and I agree with
it entirely that when you look at his size, like
(13:24):
his torso is very broad, Like he even like you
we can talk about, oh he's six' eight long, armed
but like he's.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Got a very broad torso, so like he just takes
up this.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Much he takes out so much space and he looks
like significantly.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Bigger than what he.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Is, like if you he was listed at six,' ten
no one would, be BAD and i you'd believe it because
he just looks enormous. Out THERE so i do think
the element of size can definitely be a bit of. A, deterrent.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah anything else on that, GAME one. I don't i
don't really want to boil it DOWN to I think
cleveland's going to hit.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
More SHOTS but i do. HAVE something i do Have Something.
ERONIE smith, i know wide, Open shots that's that's. One
thing but he's always been one of those PLAYERS who
i think has been underrated in, playoff context specifically because. He's,
scalable like if you're gonna give him, those shots you, Know,
(14:19):
what yeah he can. Hit them it's not a, question,
of oh if you up his three, point volume he's
probably gonna be. Less, efficient no you can scale that
dude up significantly if the. Need arises and if you
leave him alone behind the three point line and you do,
so regularly he is going to punish. You consistently so
it feels as THOUGH, the nba and this isn't Just,
(14:43):
the cleveland this isn't just the. Cap leaders it's, GENERALLY
speaking i think there are a lot of teams IN
the nba that who aren't really Aware of, hot one
how good of a shooter he, Actually Is, nie smith
but also just how scalable. HE is i think that
is still a secret That the pacers are very much
enjoying because he is so good and he's so crucial
(15:05):
to their play at. The wingspot he can play down
a position to, the two he can play of the
position to the four like he Is a swiss.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Army Knife he's he's become a much better rebounder.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Of.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
LATE now i know he didn't let.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Them offensive Rebounds in.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Round one he did and he's so he's not a
like an assist creator in, that sense but he does
move the ball pretty quickly. AND regularly i think when
he's in when he's in, the game the ball doesn't
stick with. Him like he moves it on quickly if
he doesn't have a shot like he's not, a playmaker
(15:40):
but he, just knows, OH yeah i need to get
the ball on of my hands, right Now because i'm
not a shot creator like this is one of those
guys who just has complete role acceptance and that goes
so so far in. The postseason big Kudos TO. Aaron
e smith for just being consistently great at continuing to be.
UNDERVALUED somehow i don't know how he. Does, IT yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I look i wrote about him too right before the
start of. The series i'm glad you. Mentioned him the
scalability is like the perfect word, for me. Even you
so like the quicker decision making that he's kind of
honed over the past couple. Of years he doesn't like
shoot an astronomical percentage, on drives which is just someone
who will make the quick decision to put the ball on.
The floor he's, pretty strong gets shoulders into guys. CAN
draw i think he drew a foul on a Drive in,
(16:24):
game one AND then i really think. IT'S big i
think he did what he end up with five fouls in.
This one so there will be times where it's like
he might it feels like he might be in, foul
trouble but less series He's. Defending giannis you seem to
spend a lot of Time On max Struce in, game
one so like the fact that you mentioned scale up
or down and this was actually a number to put
that too is when you look at his positional distribution
(16:48):
of how he defended the one through four. This year
the only players who like matched it like that versatility
in as many Minutes Were jimmy Butler and Shake. Gilges
alexander and so it's like not the most, elite company,
you're like You're Using Shay gil zugdan or be, a
disruptor but just this idea that you have, someone, who
oh he Will, defend giannis but he will also Go Defend,
(17:08):
max strus but like you will also see him go
on to some smaller guards and there will just, be,
Like yeah yanni's eight in, that series but he kind
of limits the way, he plays limits the amount of
help that you're gonna have to send. His way and
it's just that like it you're right underappreciated the best
way to, say IT because i, would, SAY like i
Think THE cavs i saw him spend the most. TIME
on i thought we were gonna see him more on
(17:29):
mobilely a, little BIT but i think we saw Him,
On hunter Jerome, and shreuce three very different players and
MAYBE like i guess you wouldn't call them, like size
but like that's real versatility there And super Plug and play.
On offense so THAT is i think you at this
point you probably made the Case That andrew demhard is
just the team's biggest. As Playoff andrew nemhart is an
experience and you get Those moments pepper throughout the regular
(17:51):
season where he's hitting these off the, dribble jumpers but
he just bust out a step back and. Drain it
in addition to shouldering probably their heaviest at least in
this it'll be their heaviest. DEFENSIVE workload i think you
could make the Case For, Nie, smith rciakham Or even turner.
Last series so this team. FUNCTIONAL depth i think we
kind of just put Like The indiana pacers can continue
(18:12):
to prove. Everybody Wrong and i'm not ready to count
Out the calves in, this series but for idiots like
me who are ready to Pick the calves, in five
it does feel like this, one's Destined whether garland Plays
in game two. Or not to, GO.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Longer I had nemhart as one of my FIRST round
x factors in a piece Over at yahoo before.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
The playoffs it's.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
The one PICK where i felt very comfortable with THAT
because i went in a lot of different directions with
a lot of other teams. And players that was the
one THING where, I, immediately oh we're At. The, pacers,
now Yeah That's. Andrew nemhart he just feels like a
guy who kind of hides himself a little bit in the,
regular season almost, by design, like yeah you, Know what
(18:56):
i'm gonna do this, eighty percent and like, that's fine
we'll make it through the play the. Regular season now
we make it to. The playoffs now's, my time. Fresh
Legs now i've got eighty two games under, my belt
or however many games. He played now's the time to
roll up my sleeves and go. To work, That's INTERESTING
like i don't think a lot of players will attag it,
(19:18):
like THAT but i almost have to assume that that's
the plan for him because the contrast is just. SO stark,
i cannot in any way imagine that he's approaching the
game in the same way in the regular season that
he is in.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
THE playoffs i kind of refuse to. BELIEVE that, i.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Mean he's Got That jimmy butler gene, in, him right
or do we call It The buddy? Heal? Gen now
After that game, seven.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Again, oh yeah anything else on, THIS series, i thought
What did cleveland post like in AN eighty i was, worried,
about like these are two of like the most tepid
rebounding teams when they play like good sized players at
the four.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
AND five a lot of THE time I thought i
didn't really was there anything that stood out there. TO you,
I mean indy had like a plus SIX advantage i
think on the. Offensive glass but that feels like a
part of this series that just might kind of shim
me back.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And, FORTH yeah i, Think so it's NOT something i
paid a lot of. Attention to you also have to
remember these games are on at. Odd hours, for me
there are limits to like the minutia Of what i'm pinking.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Up anything biggest thing you're gonna be Watching in game
two aside From Will darius garland play.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So Actually donovan mitchell, just BECAUSE like, I said i
thought he got goaded into taking certain shots and he kind.
OF obliged i would like to see if he goes
back to the tape and, it's like you, know what
some of these, Driving, LANES yeah i can, use them
but that DOESN'T mean i have to. Finish them LIKE
maybe i use myself as a little bit of a
(20:51):
DECOY maybe i break down. The defense maybe we have
some weak side action cutting to. The basket because of,
THOSE movements i wouldn't, be surprised, you know to use
The ted, lasso phrase, you know you shouldn't pass, too
may you should pass. Through may that would be the
way to go. ABOUT it i think he has To
(21:12):
Go jamie tart on. Their asses and with, that.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Said until, next time and, as always weave a shout
out to, the one, the only, The Indelible Frank. Nila
quina
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