Who Needs Cooper Flagg The Most? - Featuring Dan Favale

Mort & Dan discuss Cooper Flagg, and who needs him the most?

Odds via FanDuel Sportsbook

https://www.fanduel.com/research/nba

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
What is up Fellasico's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you with more Jensen of NBA, the NBA Podcast, Fame
of Yahoo Sports, Fame of Forbes Fame, and of OnlyFans Celebrity.
We are here to take a break from talking about
the playoffs because the NBA Draft Lottery is coming up
more and so we have a really complex, scientific data

(00:24):
backed question that we are going to ask and then
use it to talk about all these teams that will
be in the running for the lottery. That question, everybody,
buckle up, strap in if you haven't already mm hm which.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait you built you need
to build it up with some more. Come on, come on,
you need to build it up even more than that. Look,
this is the ques, this is this has to be
life changing to everyone listening in. You're you're already on track, Like,
just just bring it home, Dan.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
The answer to this question will quite literally determine whether
the NBA exists in the next five years.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Right, the fate of the universe.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Actually, which NBA Draft Lottery team more needs Cooper flag
the most on question? Number one, top prospect, He's going
number one. I know everyone's probably just they can't even
wrap their heads around how mind melting that question was.
So we're gonna go through each of these teams and
just talk about it. We'll deliver our verdict at the end.
Is the one team where we're kind of just looking at.

(01:20):
I don't know if there's any note you want to
have before we dig in here, but we're just looking
at the setup of the team where it's not where
necessarily I guess it. I'm factoring in everything when I
looked at this and prep for it, it's yeah, okay,
the Cooper flag fit, but like, do they have any
other blue chip cornerstones on the roster, Like I'm gonna
a team like let's use this burs as an example.
They win the lottery and have Cooper Flag, that kind

(01:41):
of feels like cheating, Like they don't need Cooper Flag, Like, yeah,
he might be fun as hell there, but the need
level of Cooper Flag is not as high for a
team that might not have let's say, the face of
its future or a candidate for that spot in place.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
I love how you look at it through that prison
because I have a attacked it from a different approach.
I'm gonna I'm looking at the state of a franchise,
not in terms of like roster construction, but like how
sad is your franchise?

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Really? That's that's like the same thing, is it?

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Though?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well, because the Spurs aren't gonna ran high on your
sadness scale?

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Are they correct? They're not just proved.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
I just proved that point, then that's true, but.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Like there are other situations there and also like goodwill.
Like sometimes it's like before exam, do I want to
reward the Philadelphia seventy six ers with this?

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Do I want to give them a bailout option here?
But I don't.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Again, they're a team that has cornerstone options in place already, though,
so I feel like we might be We're tackling it
from different perspectives, but I feel like we're gonna end
up with close to this. I bet you I could
pick which team I could narrow down to one or two,
two or three teams that I know you're gonna select
is but neither. But let's go through this exercise rather
than spoil it. Yep, we begin speaking of sad franchises

(02:59):
with the Sharp Hornets. They have a fourteen percent chance
of winning the lottery one of three teams that have
a fourteen percent chance. When you look at this is now,
this is the team that I could see ourselves disagreeing on,
that's for sure. When you look at what they have
in place where it feels like the base of their
core is Brandon Miller LaMelo ball and that's it. Like

(03:21):
you can't throw t John Salon in there, and you
definitely can't throw Mark Williams in there when they tried
to trade him. So that's that's just it. Like you
want to like who else you want a kJ Simpson?
You want to throw him in there more?

Speaker 3 (03:31):
What is like Simpson?

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I mean, it'd be nice if he passed every once
in a while, but.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Anyway, that'd be nice.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yes, here's my thing. But like let's ask I guess
this question on the scale of sort of one to ten,
Like what is their need level for the Cooper Flag experience?

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Oh, their need is is up there? Like what is
that like eight? Eight and a half?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Okay, of course, I mean, look, this is a this
is a franchise that has been just irrelevant for so
long injury plague, have a guy on the roster who
shouldn't even play in the NBA, So it leaves everyone
with a sour taste in their mouth whenever he plays,

(04:14):
so like everything is just bad. They need something good. Yeah, absolutely,
the Hornets fans to serve something nice, something they can
root for, and a local product in that way. Well,
I say local. I know he's from Maine, but like
he played a duke. You know that's that counts.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
They drink Poland's bring in Charlotte t same difference. You're good.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, the go, there you go.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
What's interesting about that is I agree. I feel like
Charlotte Hornets fans deserve like a product that is one
not injury prone and then two actively good to root for.
I do think the level of new you assigned, like
needing the to win the lottery, it really does depend on, well,
how do you feel about LaMelo ball and or Brandon Miller,

(04:57):
because this team has at least shown at so far
unto this front offic is that they're not going to
short circuit the process. But if you don't think that
between Mamelo and Brandon Miller you can assemble a sustainable
playoff contender around them, then that need for Cooper Flagg
is higher. Because I do think there are some teams
on this where you look at them and say, oh,
they have like that's the Wemby is the like they

(05:20):
have the guy in place, or even if you don't
like the guy, like if the Hawks could win the lottery,
which they cannot, well they can win the pickle. Just
go to San Antonio. You may not like Trey Young,
but you know that you can build a team around
him that will get to the playoffs. With Charlotte, there's
not a ton of proof of concept here, and injuries
have really, you know, short circuited that. For sure, I

(05:43):
tend to be higher on LaMelo than consensus, and so
I don't think they need you. I don't think they
need him as much to where it's this franchise will
not be stuck in the desert if they don't have
Cooper Flag and they have to start looking at some
of the other prospects on the board.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
You do realize that if the Hornets do get Cooper Flagg,
you and I the biggest spousal debate, you and I
we have that dies like you and I will be
friends again immediately, because I've said repeatedly that I don't
think LaMelo is like the number one guy on a
good team, like I don't think he's got that. But
and you're sort of disagreeing with me on that because

(06:23):
you're saying, if he's healthy, and I get it, but
that whole conversation just goes out the window because if
Cooper Flag is there, he's gonna be number one, He's.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Going to be the primary.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
I agree, I want to make I don't disagree with
any sense. Do you think LaMelo is capable of scaling
down to being like the number two or number one,
b whatever you want to say?

Speaker 3 (06:42):
That is a really good question that I don't have
the answer for. I hope so.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
But given that he makes a lot of questionable decisions.
Uh and and isn't necessarily a guy who, with to
to use a Captain America phrase, will lay down on
fire for his soldiers.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
I don't know. I don't know. I hope that I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
I hope that LaMelo, because he'll be twenty four later
this year, kind of matures a little bit and goes, oh,
you know what, this guy's the real deal. Let's just
ride that wave. Because I've been sort of on irrelevant
teams ever since I made it here. You know, winning
is the priority in the NBA, and if LaMelo insists

(07:30):
upon individual glory over seems success, I'd be worried as fuck.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
I don't think he'd have there might be an adjustment period.
I think he can scale down. I would be curious
to see, though, if the team does start looking at well,
what if they have Cooper Flag? Do we look at
moving LaMelo? And I probably wouldn't like I at least
want to see it in action, but you would run
the risk of Okay, value is probably not too high
right now strictly because of the injuries. There's the inefficiency

(07:59):
stuff some people like the play style that would become
an interesting exercise. I will say, if they could just
get a good defensive center in Charlotte, yeah, I would
pay absurd amount of money to watch that center defend
with Brandon Miller and Cooper Flag on the court, because that,
like Cooper Flag and Brandon Miller as like a base defense,
like not your you know, back line, like that has

(08:20):
the chance to be insane.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Which I don't want to go too far on this
because we're already over our allocated time limit on each team,
but I know that I'm I'm in the minority on
this one. I still think there could be a solid
defensive center. Mark Williams kending health. He's only twenty three.
We know Biggs take some time, we know that he's

(08:45):
had some issues there. I'm not gonna sit here and
sugarcoat it and say he's a good defensive player.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Although I do think he has moments. I think that's
fair to say.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I don't think he is like a complete nonsense player defensively.
I don't think that would be fair whatsoever. The rebounding
alone as well is elite, and that helps that kind
of finishes off defensive possessions. So I think there's something there.
But again, you need him to be healthy. You also
need him to be motivated. And I'm sort of at

(09:15):
that mind that Mark Williams potentially could be looking around
the league after having that deal rescinded, and maybe this
is also not the best situation for him to develop.
So it's like I feel as though with Cooper Flag,
if he gets there, it just resets everything that's that
allows him to say, Okay, culture reset from here on out.

(09:38):
The guys we don't like the work ethic of some
players that we don't like, everyone is now expendable. Outside
of Cooper Flag. It just resets everything I think.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I still I don't know that I would call Miller
LaMelo expendable in that scenario, but I get it, like
I understand the sentiment. I probably want to see them
all together, though before I got that far. Our next
team is the he also has a fourteen percent chance
of winning the lottery, the Utah Jazz. They just extended
Will Hardy, who there were murmurings around the league that

(10:09):
the Spurs are making run at him, and he signed
a six year extension. I wonder this is totally tangential,
but I wonder how much was Oh the Spurs maybe
checked in before going with Mitch Johnson and that like
Will Hardy maybe use that as leverage to get the extension.
But they had picked up his option like for twenty
twenty six, twenty seven this past year, so I think
this was always headed there. I think you could make

(10:30):
the case though and miss when you get to talk
to need about Cooper flagmoret. I think you can make
the case that right now, Will Hardy is this team's
best building block, and that's problematic when you're looking at
how many years seasons removed we now are from the
Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell trades, and look, part of
that might be will Hardy's fault. He's definitely a really

(10:51):
good coach on offense, and the Jazz were better than
expected for the first half of the previous two seasons.
Now they've finally tanked a full year unless you, I
guess the only way that you could disagree that they're
sort of at like def Con one. In terms of
looking for a face of the futures, you either have
to believe that it's Isaiah Collier, Keyante George or that

(11:14):
you have that high high of an opinion of lowry marketing.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
John Collins slander.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
No, I'm kidding, Yes, Cody Williams is gonna happen. Williams
my big board last year.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
I mean, look, there's something so funny about the idea
of them winning Cooper Flag because marketing to me still
a four, John Collins only a four, Kenyan Martin Junior
best as a four, Taylor Hendricks best as a four,
Kyle Philipowski strictly a four, and Cooper Flag obviously also

(11:45):
to me, projects way more as a four than the three.
So it's like, all right, maybe this is just like
the New Age Jazz let's start three.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Or four screw it, four power forwards? Why not?

Speaker 1 (11:58):
What would that be relative to Houston to where it's
like And we've had some discussioners a discord that people
think Tari Easton does a lot of the big man stuff,
which is fair, but they're playing Jabbari Shangun and Adams
together with then Atari Easton. But it's like those are
two centers plus a four five and then a three
four and that the Jazz are running out all.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Fours, all force, all force.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
I mean, look and look the T shirts alone, all
four on, all fours.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
It'd be fantastic. But yeah, look from from a franchise perspective,
let's just let's not beat around the bush here. From
a franchise perspective, getting a white superstar in Utah, yeah yeah,
but perfect just no notes that is that would be

(12:46):
huge for both the league and for them because we
all know that that is something that has been an
issue for a long time. I would say perfect fit.
But in terms of the need, I don't know, because
I don't know what the fuck this roster.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Is, but that's what, Yeah, that increased the need because
what is their guiding force? Right? Now, who is.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
The more that that is?

Speaker 1 (13:12):
That's but that's then that's a problem and Larry Marketing, Look,
you could make him and Cooper flag work if you're
trying to be competitive. Soon you can't all the all
the pieces around them become instantly fungible. I think, not
only are you looking at a roster that's bereft of
that number one guy of the future, but you're looking
at an impatient fan base because of how many seasons?

(13:33):
What are we like, we're three years, three summers removed
from Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell being shipped elsewhere? Is that?
What was that twenty twenty two that it was? We're
about to go to summer four? Then?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
I like, so this is his third year.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Don Mitchell's been in Cleveland.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
For what's third year?

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Right, But we're gonna have to double check that. I
don't know what is time anyway more. But yeah, so
don Mitchell just wrapped up his third season in Cleveland,
so trade him in the summer of two thousand or
like that off season. So now you've gone through this
will be your fourth off season since technically kicking off
the rebuild, and or third excuse me, I'm sorry, can't
do math. And to not have like even someone that

(14:15):
you would stand there and identifies, well, this might be
someone who can become. And there's a lot of I
think sometimes it's you know, it's oversimplified as to why
they're here. I think a lot of the reason they're
here is for good things like Larry markin in turning
into a borderline all NBA player like and then some
of the veterans just for contributing longer in that first
season at a higher level than you'd expected. With all

(14:36):
that said, you can't sit here after getting all those
picks moving so much, like just blowing it up, and
to not even have like even on teams if you
don't believe that they're number one options in place, you
can only say no, like that might be the dude,
if we're fasterwarding three or four years, like you could
see you could see a pause, there is no one

(14:58):
And I don't even know who has the best chance
being that. Like if you even had to say, oh,
it's gonna be one of the players on the roster
that will be the pole star around whom they build
everything in three to four years, Who fucked? Who are
you picking is it, is it Collier? Is it Kiante George?

Speaker 3 (15:14):
Like, honestly, oh god, that's depressing.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Problem Taylor Hendrix, because I love that dude.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
All right, you know what, you could mince me. So
the need for them because of their situation. That's probably
like a solid nine nine point five maybe even.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
And it's you could go higher. But I do think
then you get to the point of, like, I don't
hate all the youth on Utah, Like I think Kyle
Philipowski and Collier had like two of the more underrated
rookie Especially Philipowski. I think he like he was What
he did on offense this year was just nasty. But
it does come what you also say, Man, the roster
gets tricky because of all the fours.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Right right, So that that is very high. Actually, so
right now we have Utah in the lead, all right.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, I think that's fair, But we're onto the Washington
Wizards also a fourteen percent. They are going to round
out are fourteen percenters, And generally speaking, you would expect
the teams that have the highest chance of winning the
lottery to need to win the lottery the most. This
one's interesting though, because I think they have two options

(16:18):
when it comes to if you were wondering who is
their guiding force in Ballah, Kula Bali and even Alex
saw Sar did not have the most efficient offensive season,
but like he showed some stretch, showed some defensive disruption.
I think the passing, that's not something that I knew
that he was gonna be able to do right out
of the gate. Here, As he gets stronger, I think

(16:39):
he will become a better post defender, a better finisher
around the basket. And I just love Koula Bali. Like
that dude came into the league just ready to defend
anyone and he's still kind of there. I think the
swing skill for him will be the shooting. Yeah, the shooting.
I kind of dabbled in, oh can this person create
for others a bunch? But I think I might rather
see him as if you could just get a set jumper,

(17:01):
and then if you want him to make plays off
the catch, where's maybe out of the short role that
might be for what and for all he can do
on defense, I think that's enough. So they do have
two options here, and then they also have I like
bub Garrington a lot like the poison, of which you
could play on ball. And I really love Keishawn George.
I don't think you call him a cornerstone, but as
someone who can do I think, if the shot comes around,

(17:23):
do a little bit of everything right. So I think
some people might be surprised. If we're going on a
scale of one to ten, I don't know where you're
gonna land. I'm probably at like if five is average,
they clearly need it more than just the average team
because they're here at all. But I don't know a six.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Six, eleven, twelve, And I'll tell you why, because you
look at it from a ross perspective. That's totally fair.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
This is a franchise where people don't care anymore, like
at all. This is a franchise that might be one
of the most, if not the most irrelevant in the
entire NBA.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
It is. I was there.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
I was in Washington over Christmas in twenty fourteen. This
was at the height of the John Wall Bradley Beal era.
Nobody gave a fuck. Nobody gave a fuck except the hardcourse.
And funny enough, by the way, Brian was there. We
didn't know at that point in time.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Games out there for the thousands of people listening who
have no idea who Brian.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Is Brian suporregard common friend or a mutual friend. So
he was there and that, and like I actually asked
him later on, like is this normal? He was like, yeah, Washington,
It's like, okay, let's get some excitement back to the
Wizzards because the last time they won a championship was

(18:48):
in nineteen seventy eight, and they've only like sparingly been
in the playoffs ever since, like no first round loss
here and there, like maybe made it to the second round.
It's just it's been it's been really bad. It's been
really bad. This is an organization, this is a fan base.
This is everything that needs something else, that needs a

(19:13):
that needs hope, that needs a light. It's not just
about the roster how it's currently constructed. It's not about
their cap sheet, it's not about their direction. This is
about a team that needs a reason to exist ten eleven,
twelve in terms of need.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
That's an interesting way to look at it. I just
don't know is the hype around Cooper flag enough, Like
has he reached Wemby or Zion levels of hype coming
out of college that if you're viewing this from sort
of like you're looking at this as an existential crisis.
Is that going to be enough to, like, I don't know,

(19:55):
change public your your opinion of how much the public
cares about the Wizards. I don't.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
You could make a case that like New Orleans has
zion and that hasn't necessarily raised the PELICANUS or at
least has a convinced ownership to invest competently in the organization.
So I I just it's tough for me to look
at it from a non basketball perspective because I think
if you're to look at it from a basketball perspective,
do you still assign so much value to them needing Cooper.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Flag because he's Cooper Flag and he's an organizational star
presumably of what we know that is the the spectrum
of which we analyze this through. Yes, because there's going
to be a ripple effect. If he is that Tier

(20:43):
one superstar, more stars are gonna let sean, They're gonna
build a competitive product. It's not gonna be John Wall
and Bradley Beal. It's going to be something better, something
that can capture the imagination of which Wizards fans. When
is the last time we've ever been able to say that.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Here's my thing with that, though, Well, I think it's
fair to look at it that way. You're basically saying
that what they have in place can't ever the outcome
of that is zero, then, is what you're saying if
you're saying they need Cooper flag because you're not that
you're saying that, Alex r. Because part of this has
this is about basketball, captioning the imagine, capturing the imagination.
So like by you putting them at an eleven and

(21:22):
the Jazz at a nine, you're saying to me that
there's more of a chance that the Utah cole aces in.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Okay, I understand why you look at it like that.
That's no.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
I think I'm basically putting more of an onus on.
This is a team that's gone nowhere at least at
least Utah has had moments during like Darren Williams, Carlos
Boos or whatever era where they made it to the
Western Conference finals. Right, They made it to the finals
back to back in ninety seven ninety eight, right, So
like they've had playoffs success. They've been to the playoffs,

(21:58):
they made it pretty far they've had, like you know,
consistent playoff appearances where we can sort of pencil them
in as the top five sometimes top four seed.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
We can't say that about the Wizards, not really.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I think the entire story narrative, whatever you want to
call it, around the franchise is where I differ between
the two of them. So, while I understand your point
from a roster perspective, I do think more highly of
how the Wizards are building right now than I do
the Jazz. It's it's a feeling. It's the feeling dan
of where those organizations are presently.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
And look, I'm all for ejecting like the emotional component
into this too. And I think part of the reason
I would have the Wizards I have them lower is
also because I trust the direction that the front office
is headed in to where it's. Okay, now, let's look
at it this way. Let's say they don't get Cooper Flag.
The previous front office regime is probably going out there
and giving up every may have to trade for i

(23:01):
don't know, like Kyle Kuzma again or something, and this one,
you know, like, no, they're gonna continue to bill gradually,
and if that Cooper flag isn't already in place that
pole Star. They're going to give themselves enough bites at
the draft Apple to ensure that they go. And I
also trust them more to develop what's already in place.
And so that's why it's tough for me to say.

(23:22):
From an interest perspective, I think there are a ton
of teams that could fit, you know, like the a
Cooper flag comes in and it gives you this polarizing
presence around which to rally the fan base while you're
still bad. I agree with you that Cooper flag probably
does that for Washington more than Kulabali or alex Are
for sure. Our next team has a twelve and a

(23:43):
half percent speaking of irrelevant franchises, by the way, as
a twelve and a half and I'm allowed to say
that because I was so high on the Pelicans too
many times only for them to, you know, blow my
brains out. They have a twelve and a half percent
chance of winning lottery. H David Griffin gone, Joe dumars in.
There's still talent on this roster.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, I just have.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
No idea what the fuck they're doing. And that's the
I think Zion Williamson's a borderline top ten player when
he's available. Yeah, I don't get to get available is
the key word. I mean, you worry whose durability You're
worried about more Zions or Lamello. It's it's probably Ions
at this point. So so you're worried about well, so
you want Melow to be unavailable, is what you're saying.

(24:25):
That's that's kind of a cheap shot. I don't like,
I feel like they need Cooper Flag, Like I would
put them around an eight to where it's okay, you
have Zion, so you still have a chance that if
he's healthy, this is the guy. But I don't know
that you could say you're closer to having the guy
than Charlotte. You could say it than Utah, just because
there's at least someone with that level of talent. However,

(24:47):
when you look at the direction of the franchise and
maybe you disagree, like maybe the argument would be no, like,
they don't need Cooper Flags because nothing here is gonna change. Like,
if you got Cooper Flag, I feel like it steers
you in a very clear direction. Whereas kind of right now,
regardless of who they end up with, if it's not
Cooper Flag, you're still sort of just billowing in the wind, right,

(25:11):
So where do we put them on a number? So
the rankings right now, well, I guess we have different rankings,
but like they're definitely for me, which so I guess
you're assuming are they higher or lower for you than
the Wizards? Would be the question?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
No, I see, yeah, I think they're I think they're lower.
I think again this we're talking about the Wizards for me,
where I'm like, does this team have a reason to exist?
So I think that's why it's so crucial. I'm not
quite there with the Pelicans. Also because the Science Factory
is still there, it's still alive for as long as

(25:46):
it is.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
We'll see what happens this summer six and a half.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
And also if they do pivot off Sion after getting
the Cooper flag pick.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Is that what you do if you're them?

Speaker 3 (26:00):
By the way, I'm not saying no, no, I'm not saying
that's what they should do. No.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I mean if they do, what if they get something
in there that actually sets it up to flag long term,
wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well, that's what I was almost assuming, was that just
gives them a clear direction as let's just rebuild everything
around him. Because, by the way, if you're worried about
Cooper Flag playing with Lowry Market, and you certainly need
to be worried with him playing next to Zion Williams
and no.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah, no, no.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
The Yarket type of Flag and Sion are eerily similar,
like sketchy long range shooters, although Flag projects to be better,
but both playmaking force. Flag obviously defensively far better on
that end, where I think Sion offensively has by far
the edge at least right now. But yeah, positional overlap

(26:54):
times too, right, It's not as as it greaches as
Bratley Beale Devin Booker.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
But we're up there, so do you like?

Speaker 1 (27:04):
I still think of all the teams we've talked about,
this will be the best way for him. I still
have Utah at the top of my list of they
we need to plague the most, because the Zion component
here is just so tough to reconcile if you don't.
And it doesn't seem like you know, Schmidt Duwa just
published another like sort of info dump on the Pelican situation.
It doesn't seem like there was actually a prerequisite of
Jumar's taking the job that he had to trade Zion.

(27:26):
But that's just sort of kind of out there. Is
Zion even happy there to the Pelicans even want him?
And how good? And how also, how do you build
a team where you don't know if this okay an
all NBA Top ten type player, you don't know whether
he's gonna be available, So how do you go about
building your team? It seems like one of David Griffin's
cardinal sins was he tried to build a team that

(27:50):
could thrive or at least be good without Zion, and
then it deviated too far away of optimizing Zion. But
how do you justify what we need to optimize Zion
if Zion's not gonna play in sixty five games every year?

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, and that's and that's where the need comes in,
because we can seize her and talk about, well do
they really need him if Sion is there? But you're right,
if Sion plays twenty five twenty seven games per year,
what the fuck does it matter?

Speaker 3 (28:18):
Then he's not there? No, you're right.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
You know what did I say? Six point five? I'm
gonna up it. You're right, it's not up to my
Washington levels. Though I'm probably gonna go up to seven
point five.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
So moret has the Wizards is number one so far
and I have to do Yeah still too, Let's see
if this next team can be throne either of them.
They have a ten point five percent chance of winning
the lottery. More the Philadelphia seventy six Ers with over
a ten percent chance of winning the lottery, just like
we all predicted at the start of the season. I mean,
if if you're going at it through the lens of

(28:58):
I don't trust this core together. Joel Ebid and Paul
George are never gonna live up to their contracts and
Beat is never going to be healthy again. You could
argue the need is pretty urgent, but they also still
have Tyrese MAXI. They have picks. They have I mean
down where we know he's going to be aggressive in
trying to make upgrades, so the need level you if
you're the Sixers, you want to have the problem of

(29:18):
let's keep the pick and then see, like do we
trade it, do we draft? And trying to develop this player.
I would argue, I'm if you can get Cooper Flag,
I'm saying you get Cooper Flag. Like if they had
a choice obviously yes, but winning the lottery almost complicates
things for them because it's like, what, what are you supposed.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
To do because of the contracts?

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yes, it's because of the contracts, But it's like, are
you just assuming are you on Cooper Flag's timeline now?
Or are you trying to develop Cooper Flag around you
forget about?

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yes, no, no, no, no, there should be no confusion
confusion about that. If you win the Cooper Flag lottery,
if you're in the Philadelphia seventy six ers apsol of
fucking lot you're on Cooper Flag's timeline right now?

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Are so you're just then you're on Joel embid Is.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yes, I am. And Paul George, Yes, George.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Is not the person. He's not like he never would
even if Paul George had a good year, You're not.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
No, But like what I mean is like, I'm just
out on the veterans. I could also have said Eric Gordon,
I'm just out on them trying to go out for
when now players, you're you're switching things around, You're going
into a rebuild. You are building around Tyree s Maxey,
Cooper Flag. Jerry McCain rhymes when rhymes as well yes,

(30:31):
like that's your new starting point.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Absolutely, that's I think that would probably be the right call.
So I do agree with you. I just don't think
it's what they would do.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Maybe not, that's that's what they should do, That's what
they should do.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
If I was running the franchise, I guess like, yeah,
the Maxie FLA, But like what are so you're just
you're if someone's willing to take and be you're just
trading him for what you can get. Because he's the
type of player where it's if he's gonna play. And
I don't necessarily mean this in a bad way, but
it's not gonna know it's I mean, Tyre's Maxi blossomed
around him, So maybe that's the wrong call. But he's
not gonna streamline Cooper Flag's development. If anything, he might

(31:08):
infringe upon it, because I think Cooper Flag is very
much someone who needs plenty of touches to kind of
make sure that he leaves a mark on the game
offensively right now, and that's just with Maxi and MBI
that's not not gonna be as readily available, right Does
that matter?

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Is that something we should think about.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
I think everything's on the table here. I'm just saying
I don't like I it's weird because I don't believe
that they would be on Cooper Flag's timeline immediately if
they won the lottery. I think they would either try
and augment what they already have in place with Cooper Flag,
or they would probably if of all the lottery teams,
like they would be the most likely one to trade
said lottery said number one pick right. I don't think

(31:51):
anybody would. I want to make that clear.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
I mean if I'm not closing the door on that,
because NBA franchise act in so many different ways.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
If you are married to this timeline of EMBIID Paul George,
I guess Tyrese Maxie also even though he's significantly younger.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
You just got to make sure it's the right deal though,
like if you.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, yeah, but like straight up, man, even if you
get Booker.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Because and also the problem you run into is I'm
assuming you look at that and say, okay, like EMBIID
or George has to be your matching salary going out right,
and you're probably picking Paul George, Oh.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Oh absolutely, but still like and then I'm probably also
getting more in return. But do I even trust a
Embid book, Maxy McCain, crimes Core.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
That's so many guards. Do you try to trust that's
a that's a talented core. I don't. I wouldn't trust
it defensively for sure.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
I wouldn't trust it to stay healthy. I wouldn't trust
it to do a lot of things. It's again, this
Sixers team needs a bit of a blow up, not
into terms of like from everyone older than Tyree's Maxian
up like, yeah, oh well, with the exception of Quentin Grimes,
that's you say, Quentin crimes en up.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Cooper flag would be the perfect excuse. But where do
we put them? Dan are putting them at at six
point five six?

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Our lowest score I think that we gave is I
gave the Wizards of six and a half, but you
could probably talk me into a seven.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
But that was my highest because yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
So do they need it more than the Pelicans who
have zion? So it's kind of it's there's a contrast there,
but it's okay, the Sixers haven't bet in Maxie and
the Pelicans have zion on.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
No, they they don't.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
You're right, that's that's the way to figure out the
score here, because You're right, Tyres Maxie is far more
available than sign Williams Snizz. Granted, Sion is better when
he's healthy, but I do think the difference isn't so
itck reaches to the point where like, oh yeah, like
he's levels ahead because we have a reasonably healthy Tyrese Maxi,

(34:09):
and we also have a Jared McCain who, based off
what we saw in the first year, looks like a keeper.
If Quentin Grimes can duplicate what he did post trade deadline,
and I know there are a lot of funky numbers
in there.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, no, they're just not in that big of a need, right.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I think if you were to argue, if we were
to make the case that they need this more than anyone,
or as much as anyone, it's what you said before,
they need a reason to blow it up, like just
the iron clad, concrete reason and Cooper flags, I guess
about as iron clad as it would get to. I
would argue, Look, you can talk about McCain and Grimes anyone,
but Maxie would just be dispensable to me if you

(34:48):
have Cooper Flag at that point, Yeah, next team up.
They have a nine percent chance of winning the lottery.
The Brooklyn Nets. This is fascinating because they reacquired control
over their next two first round picks twenty five and
twenty six. They paid a pretty good premium to get them,

(35:10):
and they don't have They didn't have it before, but
they certainly didn't have a candidate after trading McHale Bridges.
Cam Johnson is their best player, and if you want
to argue for Cam Thomas or Nick Klaxton, we could listen,
but none.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Of these, You're right, So the need is there.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
And it's also I understand that there's only I think
they only owe one of their picks right in twenty
twenty seven is the one that's going out, So it's
not like there's this long break in between them not
having draft picks, but there is the urgency of in theory,
you want to be good in time for the twenty
twenty seven draft because you don't control that pick, so

(35:47):
you kind of only have like these two bytes or
two chances to be really bad and capitalize on it.
And not that they already missed. I mean, if anything,
in the testament to Jordi Fernandez and they were fun
to watch for pretty much the entire season, but eventually
you don't have one of the top four top five
lottery odd spots. I do think some people would paint
that as a failure. But regardless, the need for to

(36:12):
forget about the profile of Cooper flag off the court
which you wrought up in Washington. Although if you want
to compete with the Knicks in terms of interest, sure,
like you just need a court, like you need a
building block. You don't have that primary centerpiece right now.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
From a roster perspective, the need here set of fifteen
out of ten. From a market perspective, because this is
still New Yorick, it's like two out of ten. Like
they will get guys because it's they have.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
They can have over eighty million dollars in cap space
this year if they want it. I don't think they're
gonna go for that much, but they can just they
have more cap space. It's not just than anyone, but
like they could triple up the next closest team, which
is basically the Pistons at this.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Point, right So like it's it's the contrast is pretty
fun because you're you're absolutely right from a roster perspective,
it's a gregious like this this just this Screamscooper Flag
in terms of like the biggest need for sure, But again,
I just I have to factor it in just because
of who I am. I have to factor in the

(37:16):
organizational circumstances. And given that this is a team that
can sleepwalk itself to free agent acquisitions, I'm just not
overall in that big of a Oh, we need something
like they'll manage.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
So I would put them below the Jazz for sure,
who are my number one team so far because of
basically everything you mentioned. And also I really think the
time component in Utah needs to matter more to where
it's this was the third season. I couldn't figure out
the math before in terms of but like this was
the technically the third season of the rebuild with Brooklyn.
It's this was rebuilding year number one, and so you're

(37:52):
prepared to be like bad And I know the Jas
still have a ton of other first round picks, but
they're also if you're you mentioned this with the free
agency stuff, Let's just say that you were willing to
trade for Giannis attend to Koupo this summer. Brooklyn can
do that. I think with more confidence that he would
one stay past his current contract and two they would

(38:13):
have the ability to reel in other guys for your honest,
than Utah to say, even if you'd like Utah's assets,
dash more like, I think it would be harder. This
might be the perfect way to frame it. It would be
harder for Utah to make a trade for Giannis and
accelerate their timeline this summer after year three of their rebuild,
than it would for Brooklyn to say, you know what,
we won the lottery, Like, let's just dangle Cooper Flag
and see if that gets us Yannest. I'm not not

(38:35):
advocating for that. I'm just thinking they could.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I think they could, and they can go all in
right now. It's funny because I've closed that door pretty thoroughly.
But that's a really good point actually, because who they are,
they can utilize their the size of their market and
the level of attraction they have from agencies and certain
star players to sort of make a very quick retool.

(39:02):
That'd be fun, I'd be interesting.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
I don't think if they had Cooper Flag, I'm not
trading him for you, honest, And really that's the to me,
that's the only way they could get you, honest, because Milwaukee,
unless they're getting control. They're like picks back and Portland
has I think three swap whites swap rights from them.
Excuse me, Like the Nets don't even have players that
you can send the Bucks so that they're still good.

(39:24):
You need that balance of a package, and they're Their
balance right now is skewed heavily towards Hey, we don't
need to send any money back in return, so it's
cap relief and draft equity, which it matters, but when
you're the Bucks and you don't control your own first
round pick doesn't matter as much. Too far field, but
the need I can't separate myself, like I get what
you're saying about the other They have time on their side,

(39:46):
I guess, and then the mechanisms that will be or
machinations that will be available to them, as like being
in the Brooklyn market, but you just don't have anyone
to point to, and so I think they might be
like maybe behind the Pelicane, it would be my number
two teams, so far behind the Jazz, but like they're
up there. I think Brooklyn's my number just to you

(40:06):
have that name in there and you don't have anyone
else who even begins.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
To check that box yeah, I think you're right because
of that, just the rosters, Yeah, I can get there.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Would you put them above or below the j because
you have the Wizards at eleven? So I'm assuming you
have the nets below the Wizards. Do you think that
Brooklyn needs it more than Utah? Well?

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Where did I put Utah? That was a solid eight
point five I believe I said from a roster perspective, absolutely,
I think, Oh that's close. Yeah, probably just inches. Yeah,

(40:50):
I would.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I'm still gonna put Utah ahead just because they're year
three into it, and so I think that there could
be more patients in Brooklyn. But that I think that's
an interesting debate Utah and Brooklyn. Who needs it more?
So far? Our next team coming in with a seven
and a half percent chance of winning the lottery, the
Toronto Raptors. More, where are you at with them? And
how much do they need to win the number one pick?

(41:12):
And are they you know I mentioned I did say, oh,
is it Philly if they want it. I'm not saying
any team would Which team is most likely to win
the number one pick and then trade it? I'm not
kind of wondering if Toronto should be the answer to that.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Question.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
I mean, look, they've committed to a core where frankly
I don't love the fit with the Brenton Ingrim acquisition.
Not really sure what they're trying to do. They are
going to start three small forwards next year unless they
make some alterations over the course of summer. This would
be one Scottie Barnes, Cooper Flag. A lot of overlap.

(41:49):
There a lot of overlap. Not like I don't think
Cooper is going to be like a day one big
time NPA score. I think that's going to be like
a year two for him thing for him. Scotty has
yet to develop that, you know, that real high.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Level scoring instinct.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Like I just I hate the funkiness of the roster,
but there's a lot of quality there, So I can't
say that from a from a roster perspective, like they're
in major need and an upgrade if.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
You're just looking at it individually. Yeah, a level of
talent between Cooper Flag, Scottie Barnes, Brandon Ingram and Manuel
Quickly yakab Perle. You are like the names like containing
so it's like, all right, that's not an intuitive top seven, right,
that's certainly a top seven.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah, exactly, so, like you can look at it through that,
but like the raw fit of it all that just
seems messed up.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
That's just gonna complicate it even more. Or maybe it
streams streamlines.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
That maybe they'll go, oh, we finally have our four
and then they move Scotty to the three. Then I
don't know what they do incrim is probably what the
hell did they do with it? Oh God, why do
they trade for Ingram? That was such such a dumb move.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
I don't I'm from a value play just looking at
what they get.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Right, fair enough, fair enough? I hate the extension. I
should I should clarify it's the extension I hate.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
I don't even know that.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
I I was spinning on him at forty million a.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Year, Okay, I agree, but we kind of know that,
like that's not how free agency in the NBA works
for someone, you know.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
But he's still like, I look, the number.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Was a little high for me. But I think the
fact that it's three years almost works in their favor
because it immediately becomes this short term contract after next season.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Even so, I'm not a big fan of the Fit.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
I I'm not a big fan of the Fit, but
I am encouraged because the way that they use r J. Barrett,
like getting him moving off the ball, and that's not yep. Agree,
it's probably something to be fair, It's probably something he
would have liked to have done more in New York,
but it's not they were.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Where does that leave Scotty with Cooper Flag in the mix?
Because right now it seems like.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
They're going to figure out a way to have people
or bit around Scotty and still leave him as the
focal point and then brandon Ingram is probably I like
him manual quickly, but as right now he's their second
best drum square.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Do you trade Barnes if you get Flag?

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Yeah, but then like what was the point of trading
for Ingram because then you're on then.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
You have your offensive minded three man.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Wow, Look I'm not saying I like it.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
I'm just saying, look, if you want something that's a
little bit of a cleaner fit, maybe it's Barnes. Also
because Barnes has a lot of value, like he's on
a fun max.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
So here's what I would do it. I would absolutely
love to see them play together. And I think that
you bet on like we've seen flashes of the Scottie
Barnes like right at or gradual pull up jumper going
in from beyond the arc. You hope that that's enough
to work itself out, or if I'm gonna reorient anything,
it's I'm surrounding Barnes and Cooper Flag with a bunch
of emanual quickly types like go get a floor, spacing

(44:55):
five Chris Bouchet gets some max in this scenario. So
they come back and just chuck threes. But they would
be I want to say, they would be one of
the more interesting Cooper Flag destinations, but I can't get
there with need.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Right, No, it mean either. So when the Raptures and
Jazz play each other, will be like eight fours starting
out as its end.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Well, they both have Cooper Flag. It is I guess.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Look it looks Utah isn't short on fours. They won't
have to.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
If we're talking about the battle of the power forward
types between Toronto and Utah. Toronto needs Cooper Flag a
lot like they need if you want to get on
Utah level of like fours, Yeah, you need Cooper Flag.
I want to see now like I'll see Cooper Flag
on any of the see but Toronto would be just
to see how they would react. I think that, like
so far, that might be the most fascinating. Oh what

(45:45):
does this mean for team even more so than Philly? Right?
Or would you say Philly is more interesting than Toronto
in that vein?

Speaker 3 (45:51):
No, no, no, no, no, Philly isn't interesting at all.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
We move on to this interesting six point seven percent
chance of winning the lottery. The San Antonio Spurs six
percent is their own, and then the Hawks have a
point seven percent chance of winning the lottery and the Spurs.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
We can skip this pretty quickly. There's not a damn
need for anything here, but it would be fun as
hell if it happened.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Okay, I'm gonna yes all that. Yes, I just want
to highlight one concern I would have. Yes, I don't
think this is a macro problem. But you've like already
made yourself so dependent on Victor Webenyama being a floor
spacer and if you want him to have paint touches,
having Steph Cassel, Cooper Flag and deanarroon Fox on your

(46:40):
rosters like not the way to go about it.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
You don't have this word in the States. It's something
we call fly fucking Basically, it means it doesn't matter,
you're you're, you're kind of.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Just sounds like having intercourse with insects is what it sounds.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
That well, it's it's basically two insects having sex and
it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
It's pointless.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
So it's like, basically the point of this is you're
you're picking on it on like a threat here that
just goes virtually nowhere because yeah, all right, shooting concerns,
big whoop, you fekre it out, Like the sound level
here would be so ridiculous. Like even if you have
to trade Stefan Castle for a better fit in terms

(47:27):
of shooting and and like fit wise, you probably do
that because you just optimize Wemby and flag like Wemby
as a shooting threat.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
I think we're.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
All aligned that that's gonna work out pretty well.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
And there it does spare him from the wear and tear.
When you're looking at how lean he is, like even
at his peak like bulkiness, he's still gonna be relatively skinny,
if not extremely skinny, And so you do spare him
from the Oh, let's have him like not banging down
low in the post, like even if you're rolling to
the basket like that's want to be a more physical

(48:01):
part of the game.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Defensively, there is potential there between Flag and wimpin Yama
to make Jared Allen and Evan Mopley look like Marcus
Speisser and Eddie Curry. That's where we are.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
And you add Castle to that too. Yeah, defensively, got
score on that team Fox two. He can like Fox
has like slowed down defensively in recent years because he's
had to carry such a major offensive. Look, yeah, he'll
be guarding the fourth best player on the roster all
of a sudden. Yeah, that too, and he'll turn like

(48:39):
their version of Shay Gilgess Alexander probably.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
I mean, look, there is no need here. The need
is at like one.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Well do they do? They need him the least of
any team that we've talked about by Boss, right, because
it's any team in the lottery, Like, there's no I
don't think there's unless you're really optimistic about the sixth
staying healthy. There's just no no case or any other team. Right, agreed,
We move on man to our next team, which is
with a three point eight percent chance of winning the

(49:09):
lottery thanks to the Phoenix Suns or I guess thanks
to the Brooklyn Nets, or both of them, however you
want to frame it. The Houston Rockets. This is this
is interesting because if you think that Cooper flag is
the type of offensive engine that they need, I think
you could make a case that there's a real need here.
But we've talked a lot about redundancies, maybe not so

(49:32):
much with strength, but with weaknesses, and you add Cooper
to this roster, of all rosters, it's kind of just
it's like a less extreme version of what if they
went and traded for Giannis attend to koopo right right.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
So it's fun because the need here is seen from
a different porgy level than say the Washington wis Shards,
where with the Wizards it's all about starting something. This
is about finishing something. This is about completing something. This
is about rounding out the roster to become a perennial
championship contender. So yes, from that point, and from that perspective,

(50:12):
the need is actually pretty big. I completely concede that point.
But that said, look at who they have like that roster,
especially at the forward positions. They're not lacking in quality.
I'm in Thompson's probably that seems best player. Chari Easton
isn't far behind. You have a boner on for Jabari
Smith Junior like.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
This?

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Would they're not in need positionally at the least.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
No, there's I just so I said this, I think
this is that Well maybe it's not because they've like
taken a gradual approch, but like you could make a
case that if they won the Cooper Flag pick, would
you just say, hey, here's Cooper Flag Jalen Green and
then you figure out the rest of the money, maybe
picking up Fred Vanfleet's team option, and it's give us

(51:00):
Devin Booker and Kevin Durant, Like is that a movie
You're all of a sudden looking.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
At uh No, because I like the depth.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I just gave up only two players from your rotation
this past year, like, and then you include if you
need to make the money work still like Jock Landale's
non guaranteed.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Wait wait wait wait, okay okay, I thought you assumed
that more players were going out. So who am I
left with now?

Speaker 1 (51:24):
If I'm Phoenix, I mean, and maybe you've given Phoenix
some of their picks back too. I don't, but it's
the base of the deal would be is you could
get away with it Fred van Vliet, Cooper Flag and
Jalen Green and you're trading for Kevin Durant and Devin Booker.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
No, I want sustainability. I want sustainability.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Why isn't that sustainable.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Because Kevin Durant is forty seven years old?

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Then your left of Devin Booker and still some of
the Sons's other picks.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
I love Devin Booker. Why what if Cooper Flag has
the higher ceiling? We don't know that that's something.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Okay, that might be fair to ask, But are the
Rockets an environment in which he would ever approach that
higher ceiling? What is the pathway to Cooper Flagg actualizing
himself the best version ofmself? On this iteration of the
Rockets where.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
We always know that when teams draft a guy and
he becomes the best player, you kind of retailer the
team around the best player, why should we build off
the assumption that the roster remains intact. If we kind
of know that Flag is going to be like the
main guy.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
By your logic, then they should make that Booker and
Durant trade. Because you just said on my tooms is
the best player on the roster.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
I said he might be, but like if Cooper Flag
comes in from day one and it's the best player,
which is the possibility, we don't know. I could see
a scenario where they go, oh, like, we have four
or five guys all in the same timeline who can
give us a prolonged window, whereas trading for forty seven

(53:01):
year old Kevin Durant maybe not. Like, don't get me wrong,
I get the allure of KD. I do, I absolutely do.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
I think I'm getting hung up on the KD of
it all too much. I'm not saying they should go
all in because of Kevin Durant. It's you're buying yourself
time now and later because Devin Bookers. Like I'm not
trading Cooper Flag just for Kevin Durant. You could also
go pick which like package you want for the Rockets
to go after. They could Cooper Flag will get you it.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
I would be more interested in like LaMelo, I figured
in in like Gianni, is there if anything? What again?
You have to you have to pivot. But like I
and I know he's he's older than book but younger
than KD.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
It's like as the fit of just like, why not can.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
You have to restructure things? You have to restructure things,
like even with the KD. I understand that your point is, oh,
we can just slide in, Katie, we can just slide
in book. I get it. What I would want the
best player, Okay, I mean I would want a top
what like, what is Gianni's top three?

Speaker 1 (54:13):
No lower than fifth?

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Probably right? Even fifth sounds ridiculously low for him, Like.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Yeah, I mean, well, because there's Jokic, there's Shay and
then I think you, I mean like Luca this season,
there's not really like a strong case.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
No, no, no, yanis over Luca this year for sure.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
For this year. But I was talking about over for
this year he was third. It was just he's gonna
finish third in MVP voting. Yeah, like maybe Tatum has
a case over him, maybe.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Yeah, over Luca.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
You mean right, no, he has a case of this
season Tatum is a case over Luca.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, but let's.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Say Giannis is no lower than fourth, is like, let's
account for always Luca Luca at any point or whatever. Right,
So I get what you're saying about the talent play
in a vacuum.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
I just oh, you know, the spacing sucks in the
if we assume that they aren't going to be made
follow up moves.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yes, especially if we also assume, like, oh, the contracts
going out like some of your best floor spacers, which
would be Fred van Fleet or Jalen Green. Right, they
don't need they don't need Cooper Flat. They get it.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Just went way too long in this one.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yeah. The next team with a three point seven percent chance,
the Portland Trailblazers fun season. What's interesting about them more
they're already good, Like we saw the size the defense
in action, Danny Avia was great, ended up being great
after somewhat slow star for them, Donovan Klingen, that was
very impactful. Who do you point to on this roster

(55:41):
and say, okay, like that's the guy of the future.
There's options. I think two of them, maybe three, depending
on how you feel about Anyavia. But I can't sit
here and tell you that I think Scooter or Shade
and Sharp is going to be that guy. I still
don't know, and so that kind of I think increases
their need.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Yeah, they're almost in.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
The Utah Jazz territory, but not as barren of options
for sure.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
I think Denny is the guy moving forward, but I
also don't think we're looking at a version of him
who is in the same potential bracket as Cooper flag Well.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
I think that's the yeah, because I would say I'm
probably holding out hope more for Scoot than anyone. Actually,
if you're gonna say you think it's Denny, now, you're
running into the same problem that Utah did, because that's
not good enough. So you're like exact, I would think
your need for them would need to be through the roof,
so mine might be a little bit lower than yours.
I'd probably still have them at like a seven and

(56:40):
a half or eight.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
It's a significant need, Yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
You want that definitive guy, which they don't that I'll
admit it. I still love Scoop with that a'll and
they just what was Isn't that weird? This is it's
adjacent to what we're talking about. They just overhauled their
assistance sah, they fired I think three assistants. That's weird
to do after giving Chelsey bills an extent, Like, doesn't
that typically portend that the coach isn't on the most

(57:06):
stable footing? Yes, and one of those coaches was apparently,
like that's the word, Like he was very responsible for
Scoot Henderson's improvement this year. So like that's just another
thing that's I find interesting. So maybe Portland needs Cooper
Flag more than even we're giving saying that they do.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
I think there is a need there.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
I'm probably slightly higher on Denny than you are, but
I do agree with your overarching point of.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
You could tell me even if you sat here a
sad Denny ABVI is going to be more valuable, better
than lowry marketing. Yeah, I might actually agree with you
in tweet, like you could say that that's still just
not good enough to be like well.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Enough, Yeah, I agree. I agree. So it's actually a
pretty big need.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Like even if Denny tops out and like what is
I hate to put stats on something like that, but
like let's say he turns into like a twenty four
to eight guy, five assists whatever, like also caliber player. Cool,
you're absolutely right, that's not your number one guy, right.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
And so are they? So you have Washington and as
you're one, and then like you had Brooklyn as too,
I have Utah as one in Brooklyn as my two?
Do they need to be?

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Did you want me to keep track of, Like I'm just.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
This is all, well, we'll pick our top team at
the end, although you kind of said yours all.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
I have mine a full spoiler, yeap.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
More than Utah or Brooklyn. I guess I'll ask do
the Blazers need it? Need it? Sorry? Do they need
Cooper Flag more than Brooklyn or Utah? No?

Speaker 3 (58:40):
I do think Utah needs more than Migrators?

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Do they needs?

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Is just the NETS is so weird?

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Right, because again the free agency element is there.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
I'm gonna say they don't because I at least have
someone I can point to and say, maybe Scoot is
still that top fifteen, top ten guy one day. Yeah,
just barely though, Like that's that they're that's a fascinating thing.
And by the way, of all the teams that need
Cooper Flag the most, or I just want Cooper fight

(59:13):
to go to a team that has or whichever team
gets Cooper Flag, please surround him with shooting, Like I
don't want to see Cooper flag on this version of
the Blazers. I don't want to see him on this
very year's version of the or the current personnel with
the Raptors, Like that's just if you get Cooper Flag. Please,
I bet you surround him with shooters.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Is that your segue to the next team?

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Speaking speaking of needing shooters.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Oh okay, I thought I thought you were going to
Chicago there because.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
They Dallas started this season with Luca Doo ended the
season with a one point eight percent chance of landing
Cooper Flag. I don't really know what to make of
any of that. This is interesting, right, I mean sure, well,
because I think you could say they don't have their
best play because their long term the view is two

(01:00:00):
to three years. They don't have anyone at your point
to say that's gonna be we know the face of
our team, of our direction three years from now. But
they're also looking to be immediately competitive and they have
a lot of talent on this roster that can help
them do that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
So they need him to trade him?

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
No, I would wouldn't you say, well, because with Kyrie
missing a huge chunk of next year, couldn't they need
him to actually use him?

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Sure, but let's look at it through the perspective of
them who are like, oh, yeah, we need veterans. Is
that gonna fly? Is that gonna way?

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
And then also it's you know it does Cooper flag
nudge You have Derek Lively, so I'm sure you're trying
to play all three of them at once, but it
probably nudges Ad back towards the direction of the five
and then does he request a trade when that happens, So.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
I want that to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
And by the way, look, in terms of need, I'm
just not gonna put them particularly high for one reason.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
They don't deserve to be high here, don't they They
made their bed, They're they're in it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I feel bad for MAVs fans to say that, because
I understand why mass fans would root the ever living
hell out of those one point eight percent odds, But
I'm sorry, your organization needs to suffer for a couple
of years.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
And the other thing, too, is just like, if they're
gonna get this pick just to trade it, I like
that almost seems like really bad karma too, because I
don't know that. Imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Look, I'm sorry, just imagine he comes in and he
might have like a slightly higher body fat percentage then
what they expect, and they're like, Nope, can't keep you.
Let's let's see what we can get. That'd be fantastic.
I need that leaked immediately if that happens.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Is there any chance just because now that Patrick Dumont
is kind of like, at least through indirect sources like
distance himself from the Lugudot, he didn't realize how what
the fall was going to be, Nico promised him it
wouldn't be as bad or whatever. Is there a scenario
where if they won the Cooper Flag sweepstakes that it
forces them to rebuild. Now now they are trading ad

(01:02:12):
Nico Harrison's probably getting canned at that point. So if
you're a MAVs fan, maybe you're used to root to
win the lottery regardless, I guess. But if you're a
MAVs fan, if you're really looking to be spared from
the Nico Harrison experience or whatever this direction is, you
probably need to root for the Of course, we already
mentioned what the flip side of that could be is
Nico Harrison still has the agency to carry out his vision.

(01:02:34):
Cooper Flag is probably playing elsewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. Though I'm gonna ring
them low. I don't I'm not going to consider them
in any serious capacity.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Our next team is your Chicago bull with a one
point seven percent chance of winning the lottery. I just
if they win the Cooper Flag sweepstakes, Like, aren't they
trading him for CJ. McCullum or something like how does
this work?

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
I think you're aiming high with the ceja.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
The in theory thought they need him, right because I
like Bouzellis, I like Kobe White, but like, none of you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
A side right in as long as they don't go
out and do something stupid as re signing Josh Giddy
to ridiculous money and has him, you know, have him
become the starting point guard.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Yeah, so where do they where do they land? For you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
I mean, look, this is an organization who should be
somewhat high on the list in terms of need because
this is this is a front office that doesn't want
to build through the draft. They want to build actively
from the middle, which is beyond insanity. So from the
pure perspective of the fan base, and look, we have

(01:03:52):
to acknowledge that the Chicago fans are very very passionate
about their sports teams. I do think that there's a
big need here to just saytisfy the fan base for
the Bulls themselves, because there's as competent as they are,
the need isn't big because I could see this ending
poorly for.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
They're like they're kind of in like Portland territory for
me because I'm looking at this from just like the
direction and like, who can you identify as the guiding
force and maybe having a player like I think what
does make front office jobs harder, as much as we
mean the shit out of the ones that might do
it incompetently, If you have someone that you can point
to and say, well, this is at least the player

(01:04:35):
around whom I'm going to try and structure everything moving forward,
it makes it easier for you to take risks, or
for you to even hit the reset button or convince
ownership to let you hit the reset button.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
It's all right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
I think honestly, you could make a case of me
that Chicago needs Cooper Flag more than Brooklyn needs Cooper Flag,
because at least you trust the front office in Brooklyn
to rebuild under their own cognizance.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Yeah, it's almost like what of those situations where you
know it forces change, as you said, and but that's
the thing I keep hearing that Michael Reinstorf was gonna
take over from Jerry Reinstorf is even less creative than
his dad, which is saying something. So it's like and again, ownership,

(01:05:21):
as we know, plays a much larger role in the
success of NBA teams that we might are willing to
say out loud for it seemed like the Bulls. I'm
just sort of like, okay, even if you get Cooper flag,
my next question is, how are you going to fuck
it up?

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
That doesn't change their need though.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Sure that's true, that is true, all right if we
isolate it to that their need is bigger than Brooklyn's.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Yes, so that would if there needs bigger than Brooklyn's.
I have them at number two behind Utah. That's kind
of wild that we're here with Chicago like all that
did it to themselves. Our final team, they have a
point eight percent chance the way the lottery, you got
only thirteen teams here because of the way that the
draft obligations shake out with Atlanta and San Antonio, the

(01:06:09):
Sacramental Kings the point eight percent chance do massa Bonis
is planning on checking in this offseason. That was the
reporting and seeing how things are and what the future is.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
As he should, Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Look if he doesn't want to play on Bulls West.
I think that says something about his character, and it
probably says something good about his character, it'd be quite honest.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
But oh he's gonna play in Bulls East if Ricky
O'Donnell has his has his way, because it feels like
that's the next shoot.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Cooper flag for Sabonis win the lottery.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
The funniest thing ever because then you get the Lithuanian superstar,
superstar I say an NBA, yeah, and like he's just
the next next vouch Era Center really just better, slightly better, but.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
He's artisanal Vucevich. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Oh, man, look again, yeah they need this, but incompetent ownership,
I just I have a hard time like rewarding a
team for like, oh you need this player the most
when they know they're just dumbasses.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
And the other thing, too, is that even if you
don't feel good about Sacramento's direction and those in charge,
like their best player is just way better than Chicago's
best player right now, even with his flawed as the
roster is like the bonus is whatever you think about
him in the playoffs, whatever you think about his defense
and the way that forces how you defend with him

(01:07:40):
on the floor. He's really fucking good, and so the
need isn't quite there. But if, like before the lottery,
it comes out like he wants out, It's like, what
the hell's going on here? So then their need would increase.
Their need is high. But there's also like, if you
get Cooper Flag, I just don't know, like, what are

(01:08:01):
you tearing it down? Then? Because him and Sibonis isn't
an intuitive fit. De roseness still on this roster, I
would be even more confused about what the case would
do because this pick will basically if they don't I mean,
if they're not gonna land, it's top twelve protected, it
goes to Atlanta, right, So he might not even be
worried about that having a first round pick, it would
be so bizarre. I don't I just don't know what

(01:08:22):
they would do. And then I don't mean that in
a bad way, because if you won the Cooper Flag sweepstakes,
that's an objectively good thing. I don't know what how
they would response to it. If you told me they
traded that pick, I'd believe you if you told me
they just tried to PLoP him in and play him
with everyone. I believe you if you told me that
they traded Sibonus, I'd believe you could tell me anything

(01:08:43):
and I would believe you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
Yep, agreed, And that is always the sign of such
a great, great.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Well. Optionality is a good thing unless it's like nonsensical
and like, so, yeah, it would somehow getting Cooper flag.
There's a snario where getting Cooper flag would inject the
direction with some coherence, right like the Kings, it feels
like it would add to the incoherence what they've not built.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
You're not wrong, Yes, uh, it's it's bulls.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
West as you said before, in terms of like it
can force a direction, but at the same time, it's
just not that optimistic.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
Man, where do I have them?

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
They're they're not in my top three, No, Like I
think my top three are Utah at one, Chicago at two.
And this is this has nothing to do with deserve.
If we were to do like the team that deserves
it the most, like who's the most who is the
most ethical tanker this year? And it would be that
to you.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
Yeah, who is that? I don't even know who is
the most ethical?

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
I think you could argue San Antonio was the most
most ethical lottery team because they're only like that's true
because of the Wemby injury. They might have wound up
lottery anyway, though they weren't necessarily playing approximate there. But
I think if let's actually let's get to some Cooper
flags of perlatives, let's do that. So what's the team

(01:10:13):
that needs Cooper Flag the most? You have the Wizards.
I have the Wizards, I have the Jazz, but you
could I think there's like real cases for the Bulls
or the Nets there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
Yep, which team deserves.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Or which fan base if you want a frame it
that deserves Cooper Flag.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
The most fan base Bulls because all the sheennanigans that
they've been put through for so many years, and just
the volume fans that are there, like because again I
can feel bad for Washington fans, but there are like
four of them, so it's like, well, let's no, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
Not that it's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Whereas with the Bulls there are at least a couple
of million, although they are dwindling by the second so
maybe they will be down to four by the time
with the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Yeah, yeah, I think you could. I wouldn't be for
the same reasons. But I think the answer would be
between Chicago, Charlotte, or Washington. For me, I'll just say
Washington to go with some variety from you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
They strictly because of like the fan base.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Yes, yeah, they deserve Cooper flag the most. What would
be the worst Cooper flag landing spot.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Probably the Bulls, Like, honestly, the Bulls fans to serve
him the most, but the organization is the one that
deserves him the least. Where that is a situation where
I just do not trust how they're going to handle it.
They just fired the shooting coach, Peter Patton, who turned
the entire shooting profile around which has been a problem

(01:11:45):
for years, and then they fired him because he wasn't
a yes man for a chorist Carney Shovin. So like,
why would I trust that organization to do well with
Cooper flag? Answer is I don't, So like deserves the
least Chicago Bulls.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
I I'm gonna say the Sixers, I just don't. I
guess if you told me that they were gonna hit
the reset button, yeah, I'm okay with it then, But
because I don't know that they would do that you're
either trading Cooper Flag and then I'm wondering, Okay, well
who are you trading him for? Or you're just trying
to PLoP him in there? And I don't love like
the embid flag Paul George Tyres, Maxiem just weird. I

(01:12:25):
would watch it because it could be like a car
crash theory. Maybe what would be the most unfair Cooper
flag landing spot? San Antonio?

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Right right? Obviously I think you could make.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
A case for Houston though, right like that that could
be you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Can make a case, but it wouldn't hold of in court.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
What would be the like the quirkiest where it's, oh,
like what is you don't hate it, you don't love it?
What does this look like?

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
Probably Sacramento, like because what the hell is that?

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Yeah, I'm gonna go with Houston. I don't know if
and then imagine if they don't make a trade, and.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
Then it's just Ronto is a good one too. There.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Toronto's also a candidate, for sure, but Houston with oh
it's we have Cooper Flag and Aman Thompson and Jabari
Smith Junior and Tari Easton and even if they make
a move, it's imagine if they then turned around somehow
traded for g you honest, without including Cooper flag. That
would be like wild too. That people are which team
would be most likely to trade the Cooper flag pick

(01:13:24):
if they want it?

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Dallas, Dallas.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
I think I'm gonna go with Philly.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
That doesn't don't don't are I don't think. I don't
think either is a bad choice.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
I don't know if I have any other superlative categories.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
I thought those were good.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Uh, this was fun. More so, here's to Utah or Washington.
Those are the teams we've decided to need Cooper flag
the most. But also with honorable mentions to Brooklyn, And
you're right about Chicago, they need him, but I don't
want to see him in Chicago like that. But although
Bozelles was fun, Yeah, so it's maybe you could trust

(01:14:11):
them to do the right thing. I don't but like
maybe you could, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Wow, that is just injecting false hope into a.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Yeah, they're gonna trade the versa bonus without including reach
in that package, You're gonna have boochens a bonus is
your core? Moving forward? Can you tell our subscribers where
they can find you in all the work that you do.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
Yes, I am currently writing a ton of rade Yahoo
sports uh, doing some offseason primers and saying goodbye to
teams that get bounced in the playoffs, So you can
find my work there. I usually share a ton of
them on Blue Sky. But here's the thing, I've been
so busy doing a lot of life stuff that I
haven't even had time to be on Blue Sky a
whole lot. So if you just go to Yahoo or

(01:14:52):
just go to Google search Yahoo and morton that my
archive is gonna come up and you go read out
of there.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
Yeah, then you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Can find my work over at the NBA podcast. And
if you're Danish by any chance, you can go find
it at buzzer Beater.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
Until next time, and as always, we mout the shout
out to the one, the only, the indelible, Frank Nila
Keina