June 4, 2025 • 31 mins
Mort and Dan discuss the firing of Tom Thibodeau.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is up Fellasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you with the one the Only Mister mort Jensen of
the NBA Podcast fame, of Forbes fame, and of Yahoo
Yahoo Sports fame, as well as OnlyFans. Celebrity plans have
been scrapped, as we are inclined to do this time
(00:21):
of year, because the New York Knicks have fired head
coach Tom Thibodeaux after five seasons, fresh off giving him
a multi year extension last summer, and I believe he has.
Ian Begley said he had like ten plus million left
for the next three years at least on there, so
they're taking quite a bit of a hit. In the
statement before I throw it to More that Sham's had
(00:42):
for the report was that the knickser is basically hell
bent on winning a championship and they believe that a
different voice is going to change things for them. That's
what we're gonna pick up off and running. But first,
the question everyone wants to know the answer to moret
how the heck are you?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I am doing well? So is the ketchup stating that
I apparently have on my shirt. So yes, it's it's
a full hot I.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thought it was a blood from when you saw the
news and you're such a TIBs loyalist that you bit
part of your tongue off in blood drip.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh no, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I even brought up tips in our coach's Hot Seats segment.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Which, by the way, I think was fair. But it
is noteworthy when you make the Eastern Conference finals and
then get fired, I would say fairly.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It is noteworthy. But are we shocked at all? Really?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So here's here's I'll take you through my reaction slash
thought process. Because we were having dinner when I saw
the notification. I didn't even click on the tweet. I
just read it. I was like, huh okay, and kept
going at it, to be honest, because it wasn't because
you know, I'm Homer Simpson and just focusing on the food.
(01:52):
It just like, yeah, not surprised, Like I just put
my phone down pretty quickly. It's like that makes sense
because look that the noise around him has just been
too much. Like this has been a thing all year long.
Every Knicks fan has had, you know, He's or her
moment where they're like this is enough, and you have
(02:14):
media punt it's also saying, look, this is becoming an
issue with the lack of bench usage and the lack
of offensive creativity and so on and so on. So
at some point I was just like, you know what,
unless he wins the title, I'm really sure we're at
least looking at a discussion here.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I think that's a fair way to look at it.
And I want to make it clear. I mean, anyone
who's ever listened, if you're stumbling onto this for the
first time, you may not know this, but on this podcast,
I have never once been what you would consider a
TIBs supporter. But I do think context is important here.
I believe that Tom Thibodeau is a was a problem
for the Knicks. I do not actually believe that he
(02:58):
was the problem. I think he showed some growth, and
I think that it took him too long to get there.
I mean, he explored more of his bench by the
end of the playoffs. Again, why weren't you doing that
all season? He finally got rid of the starting lineup,
which was mah for most of the year, and then
lost it two minutes during the playoffs. Took you too
long to do that. But what I keep coming back
to is what else was he honestly supposed to do
(03:21):
that would have made this exact roster more of a
contender than it ended up being. And it's not to
say that I think he was the right coach. I
think I guess. The two things I'm getting caught up
on is, if you're getting rid of him, you better
believe that you have the upgrade in mind. And I
don't know. I think Michael Malone is a really good
(03:41):
head coach. He feels a little tibsy into me. You know,
if you want someone to go, oh, we need to
see more of Tyler Kohlik next season, that would have
made a difference this year. That's not really your guy.
But the other thing I keep getting hung up on
is the Knicks gave up control of seven first round
picks last summer. They brought back McHale Bridges and Karl
Anthony Towns, neither of whom is nor have they ever
(04:04):
been a true number two option. And I think the
Bridges opportunity costs things the most. But he is even
further away from a traditional number two option than Karl
Anthony Towns. And the issue with Towns is, you know,
I criticized him a lot. For the three point volume,
he was at per minute, the lowest he was since
the first time he was with Tibbs as a head coach,
which the jokes going around are actually funny that Kat
(04:26):
got TIBs fired a second time. I do find that
a little hysterical. But like you can, like if, Towns
has never really been a number two and he's battled
these offensive inconsistencies and involvement issues. He's never been a
great live dribble playmaker. There's always been sort of the
why doesn't he take more threes about him? I don't
(04:46):
know how much of that you can't I won't even
say falls on Tibbs, but is something that a new
coach is going to fix. And I think what's gonna
be the big question here is that, And I would
argue that this can This definitely was Tibbs's fault to
an extent. The Jalen Brunson Karl Anthony Towns dynamic deteriorated
(05:07):
as the season went on, and so I was just
writing about this before we hopped on. But up until
January first more, John Brunson assisted on over twenty percent
of Karl Anthony Towns as buckets that number plummeted from
January first to when Jalen Brunson got injured, then it
plummeted again to about like fourteen percent during the playoffs.
It feels like by the end of the year felt
(05:28):
like they were two separate entities. It felt like they
were better off in staggered minutes than together. And that's
a problem. And I will also before I throw it
back to you, I will say it's a problem that
even if you think it can be solved offensively, I
don't know that it can be solved defensively. This might
always be a team where you're looking at it and saying,
oh no, like the nick just aren't going to be
(05:48):
able to cobble together this really good defense with those
two in the game at the same time. And so
what you're then I would assume banking on is well,
there was just so much left on the table offensively,
and that was the bigger issue here where people look
and they say, oh, fifth in point score per possession,
how much better are you supposed to get? Well, they
were fourteenth from January first onward. And I know Brunson
miss time with his ankle injury towards the end of
(06:10):
the year. So I understand the logic is what I'm
getting at, and I think it might even end up
being the right decision, But I also don't think that
it can be the only change that is made just
because I don't. I don't look at this roster, after
having seen it together for ninety plus games now, and
think that's a team that would beat the full strength Celtics,
(06:32):
or that's a team I know would beat the Calves,
or that's a team that you know, them making this
decision by the way we're recording this, you know, like
thirty six hours before the NBA Finals, them making this
decision before potentially witnessing the thunder, just establishing hey, no
one's even close to touching us. I also find that fascinating too,
So a lot of moving parts here. But if I
had to sum it up, my long winded ran away
(06:53):
of saying is I think it's justifiable, it might even
be the right call. But I don't think that if
they just run this roster back and add like an
eighth man, a different maybe an upgrade over the seventh man,
I don't think that's going to be enough to turn
them into the team that it's not just that they
were trying to be, but I would argue that they
have to be after you expended so many of your
(07:15):
assets last summer.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean, look, I agree with you very much along
the way here because I wrote a piece over at
Yahoo as well, where I also kind of pointed to
management saying, given the roster that he had to work with,
there are some shortages here and there, like the bench
for example. Are we supposed to sit here and say
(07:40):
tips could have created a strong product when the best
bench player is Mitchell Robinson and he didn't come back
until when was that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Like March March?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Right, seventeen regular season games he played it.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, like virtually no regular season experience this year, and
Pacombe Dadier like a nineteen year old Frenchman who's getting climentated.
Like that's just that's tough, right. You can say, oh, well,
Cameron Pain is a veteran. Sure, he's also Cameron Pain.
So there's a limit to there's some limits to what
(08:13):
you can expect right at a certain level. Now, I
will say I do think Landry Shammitt that was a
little unfair to camera, But I mean, you get my drift.
I do think Landry Shammitt wasn't utilized enough like this.
This was a team that too often needed three point
volume and just a player who could come in and
stretch the floor. And for some reason you didn't play Shammit. Like,
(08:36):
I know, he's inconsistent, but he will have games where
he goes like six for nine. He will have games
where that three is sticking and he could actually help them.
So for him to get so many games where he's
playing like ten minutes or even not playing much at all, and.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
That was dumb. That was that was just ridiculous. So
it it's again.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It's one of those situations where you actually said it
Tips was a problem, not the problem. I think that's
the best takeaway from this. But I mean, you have
to solve issues one at a time. So if Tips
was a problem, now you have to fix that, and
then afterwards you have to fix the roster. You have
to find ways to get depth right. So if you
(09:18):
get a coach in who is more let's say provisioned
in regards to minute's distribution and in just in terms
of building a bench unit that kind of works, and
also not playing all five starters over thirty five minutes
per game in the regular season that might also just
be a factor.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I can actually ask you a question about that. Yes,
of course I do tend to agree with you about
the minute stuff, But everybody finished the season healthy for them.
Do you think when you were watching them that exhaustion
played a role in how they ended up varing against
the Pacers? Because I looked at it as more of
a person snell, like the talent and the strength of
(10:02):
the personnel issue, rather than man, look how many minutes
they logged up until.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
This point, specifically against the Pacers.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I don't think it was that egregious, but I do
think we saw plenty of regular season games over the
course of the year where you saw a lot of
those guys just huffing and puffing, and there wasn't a
whole lot of gas left. So you kind of wonder
what would have been the effect here if you had
been able to shave off some of those man's I mean,
(10:30):
we saw. I think Cleveland is a good example. When
Kenny Atkinson came in, he basically played every one of
the main guys in the low thirties or late twenties.
They had staying power. Of course, they got injured at
just the worst time, that their timing was awful, something
that for some reason seems to be flying under the radar.
Everyone is trying to break up the backcourt right now,
(10:51):
which I don't understand, Like there is.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Really Yeah, I must be so in my silo. I
haven't seen it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
That's like when I say everyone, I don't mean media,
I don't mean like analysts, I mean like fans. That's
I keep seeing it pop up in like you know,
on Instagram, on Facebook, like the comment section, like oh
this backboard, and I'm I've seen it a ton, and
I'm just like what what?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Why? Why is that a thing?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
You have to run things back, and you have to
run them back in order to also optimize it. Do
I think the Knicks were optimized given that Josh Hart
and Mikhail Bridges were both playing forty seven plus minutes
per game, that o Jan Andobi was also damn near
forty seven per game. No, I don't think that's optimized.
I think I would want a team that is that
(11:38):
potent in terms of like the raw talent level to
enter the postseason fully healthy and if you can shave
games off just by having them play lesser a fewer minutes, Yeah,
so be it.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I mean, it's good if you again.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, Mikail Bridges
shouldn't play eighty two games per year, but he will
automatically save games if he goes from thirty seven to
forty two minutes per game, like he will just kind
of I don't I haven't done the math, but he'll
shave like what five six seven games off technically over
the course of a season.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
That's not nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
No, it's not nothing. I guess it's just you have
the talent on this roster to continue to win basketball games.
While doing that. I think you could argue that the
Knicks needed to. I mean, it's probably more egregious when
you look at their losses that they have and they
were over there twenty nine of them this year or
thirty one of them, excuse me, and so you could say, like,
why didn't he pull like for sure, So I would
(12:35):
agree with you there, But then that comes back to
sort of the the depth issue of it. Does I
don't know how much he was supposed to extend it,
especially with because until much Robinson comes back, you're dealing
with six dependable players. And I agree with you on
all your Landry sham at points. I think he kind
of proved as much during the playoffs, where even gave
him some fight on defense too, like defended some of
the pacers as bigs provided some ball pressure of their own.
(12:58):
But he was dealing with the shouldery for half the season.
And so it's like, when he comes back, how are
you supposed to integrate him to the train that's already moving.
So it's complicated, and so I think I think there
are kind of two more questions just to ask on
this subject. And the first is are there any names
that you've seen or that you can think of that
you think makes sense to slide in here to replace Thibodeau?
(13:21):
And if there's sort of a dearth of answers on
either one of our ends, like that sort of speaks
to I won't say how problematic this is, but how
risky of a gambit the Knicks are making right here.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It's a good question. I look this having a couple
hours ago. I haven't really duck down and like looked
at available coaches. I'll be completely upfront about that. What
a thought that did hit me was kind of scouring
the college ranks and trying to identify some of the
most hotent offensive coaches out there, because I do think
(13:53):
this team needs to lean in on offense a lot.
Like I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, you
have a meeting with Josh Hard and Mkilbridge is no
genon noban, you tell all three, hey, guys, stop playing defense.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
That's not what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I'm saying that you have to make sure that offense
is the you know, the drying vehicle of this and
what Josh Hart Mkilbridge's no genin nob he gives you defensively,
obviously is also going to be necessary, but the focus
should be on optimizing, you know, floor spacing, three point
volume offensive diversity, because let's just be real, it's a
(14:26):
lot of one or two pass go offense for tips.
He's not exactly a mastermind offensively, he never has been.
So I would like to see that narrative or not narrative.
I would like to see the script just flipped a
little bit, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work,
but I at least want to see it. I've told
you this before. I think there is a version of
(14:48):
Karl Anthony Towns who can average like an efficient thirty
per game. I think he's that good of an offensive
offensive player. He has to be geared towards it. But
he also needs to have a coach who understands how
to implement him and use him and kind of encourage
him to take more threes, encourage him to take more shots.
And I just don't think Tips is that guy.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I'd be curious to see if they'd be willing to
go in a first time direction. I think this front
office has gone against the grain under Leon Rose relative
to the Knicks that everyone memed years ago, So it
wouldn't shock me if they're trying to get in on
you know, Chris Quinn. It just like seems like one
of the more coveted, just like assistant guys. But it's
also just you know, I mean, we saw the Lakers
(15:32):
do it with JJ Reddick just as one example, and
that's a high pressure job with a first time head coach.
But I part of me just feels like it would
be fairly surprising to see them go with the first
time round. I hope, honestly, I hope just for the
memes and the jokes, that Jay Wright gets an interview.
I hope that he just gets an interview just to
the Villanova connection. And then, by the way, that's another
(15:53):
part of this. I'm assuming you consult Jalen Brunson about
this after he takes such a below market deal that
his extension last year, so I guess he wouldn't have
like defended or like prevented them from doing it. But
if you did do this and didn't like kind of
get his approve or stamp okay, that would be weird
and I would just be curious how he would process
all of this because I would argue that he's been
(16:15):
more supportive of Tibbs than like ninety five percent of
star players in the NBA are of their head coach.
So that's just another weird wrinkle.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I mean, I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't
talk to him. But at the end of the day,
he also seems to be very low maintenance, so maybe
they kind of bake that in and go, hey, you
know what, like he'll find a way.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, does Rick Brunson still have an assistant coaching job?
How does that work? Now?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Just make sure my dad is okay.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, imagine he's the next head coach.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, all right, that'd be funny. I'd be there for
that narrative. That'd be funny. No, I can't imagine. I
can't imagine, But like, yeah, even if you go out
and scoured like the assistant coaches around the league, that'd
be fine. I wouldn't hate that. Also, I wouldn't hate
to see them also begin to make additional hires around
(17:10):
the margins. So, for example, the Bulls inexplicably fired Peter Patton,
their shooting coach, a guy who really made a name
for himself when he was in New Orleans. We all
know Chicago didn't have great space and going into the
season he turned that around. I think they ended up
being like the second best three point shooting team in
(17:30):
the league. Then they fired him because management or idiots
like hiring him to a new head coach and having
him work a ton with Josh Hart and Mikail Bridges,
who seems to be changing his jump shot every seven months.
Maybe getting some sustainability there, Like just whoever you hire,
I wouldn't stop there with a head coach and then
(17:53):
just his normal army of assistants. I want to be
proactive about this and go in and get the best
guys for the job. You have to if you want
to have a crack at it.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I was already kind of hoping that maybe they would
figure out a way to bring in Terry Stotts to
help run the offense next season, just under TIBs, Like
that was sort of I thought that was I don't know,
maybe Tibbs wasn't open to it. And we have the
report from I think it was Ian Begley that James
Dolan was present in like some of these exit interviews
with players, which is very atypical, and so was the
(18:24):
decision alreadymade? Did he consult these guys about the TIBs thing?
But I just wondered, why didn't you maybe do more
to futs and fiddle with the staff under TIBs if
you were looking for a more creative offense or someone
to be just like give the input of like, hey
we need to extend the rotation or try this. I honestly,
like I said, I'm not shocked, but I am mildly surprised,
just given that I don't know that this is a
(18:45):
like when a coach get fires, it feels like it's
a no brainer because there's obviously a clear upgrade or
like air apparent out there. Or they just lost the
locker room entirely. And now we know what Mchael Bridges
said a couple months ago, and we know that Towns
and TIBs don't have like the best track record together.
So maybe there was some stuff like festering that then
bubbled to the surface and this was reached the point
(19:06):
of no return. But I think that's the part that
why I'm still mildly surprised is that this doesn't feel
like a no brainer decision to me. I do want
to have the final question I would ask on this
is what is the like the next biggest problem? Then
for them, we're gonna have more on their offseason. It's
coming shortly everyone, I promise, but just as like not
(19:27):
necessarily going into the weeds and addressing everything. But what
do you view as this team's because I'm assuming unless
I'm detecting something, I'm not like, you don't view this
as a contender is currently constructed? Right? Or do you
think that the head coaching change does kind of prove
to be the skeleton key that puts them on that level?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
No, I mean you need one more thing and that's
that's stepped well already kind of kind of covered that
a little bit. I think they're closer than what most
people make them out ask because they do have the
top tier talent level. I mean, there's just no debate
about that. They have great, great, top tier talent. I
think it kind of flew onto the radar a little
bit because Mikail was Let's just be real about this,
(20:09):
Mikail was sort of a disappointment here in year one.
It wasn't just his three point shot, it was the defense.
You and I have talked about that at lengths. He
wasn't as plug and playable as you hoped he was,
especially for what you relinquished Tory services. So he'll need
a bounce back year and again, if Cameron Payne is
(20:30):
one of your key pinch guys, you're just not going
to make it that far. He shouldn't be playing in
the playoffs. He shouldn't be playing a lot, generally speaking.
So if you fix the depth, if you get a
creative offensive coach in there and perhaps a shooting coach,
and you kind of work around the margins with some
of the stuff. I actually think they're closer to a
(20:52):
title than most might make it appear, as I think.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
The biggest question they may still need to answer is
do they think that predominantly Karl Anthony Towns is a
four or five? Because I think that impacts how you
go about fleshing out your debt. Well, then you're saying
that you can build a capable defense around him and
John Brunson, and I don't necessarily know if that's the case, Like,
what do you to upgrade from Josh Hart on the
(21:17):
defensive end? Orduce McBride in those minutes is just and
then if you're gonna say, well, Mitchell Robinson, and then
that slides Karl Anthony Towns to the four, and that
creates other sorts of issues to where those minutes are intriguing.
Don't get me wrong, but if you are worried about
Karnthy Towns and Jalen Brunson not being involved in enough
actions together, inserting someone else who needs to be the
primary screener and Mitchell Robinson isn't going to help that.
(21:39):
But if you do decide that's the best course moving forward,
you then need a third big for sure, because I
know you can stagger Mitch and Karl Anthony Towns, but
when they're beginning games together, that just gets inherently more difficult.
Un So like a precious to Chua isn't gonna cut it.
You need a third, either someone to start in lieu
of Mitchell Robinson and he comes off the bench, or
just bringing a capable bigon come off the bench. And
(22:00):
if you view Karl Anthony Towns as a five, then
I think what the question then becomes is like, how
do we either optimize the defense around him or what's
the player? What's the starter we need to add to
optimize the offense between him and Jalen Brunson. And we
know it's not heart in that instance, it won't be
Mitchell Robinson. Deuce McBride played forty minutes more in total
(22:21):
in the regular season in playoffs with the four other
starters that aren't Josh Hart so like, and that's just
really tough. And this bleeds into well, they don't have
a first round pick to trade this summer, and at
most they're gonna have the Mini mid level, which comes
in at five point seven million dollars to spend in
free agency. I don't know what. Maybe that gets you
a like a really useful player, Does it get you
(22:43):
a starter, Does it get you a sixth or seventh guy.
I don't know, but like that's just they're in a
tough spot to say, even if you want to boil
it down to they just need more depth. They're a
tough spot to carve out more depth. And like, I
just don't think the answer is in house, I guess,
is what I'm saying, because it's more of You could
say Tim isn't good at developing the youngsters, but I
(23:03):
don't know if more of Pacomb Dottie or Tyler Kohlik
would have moved the needle in the right direction for
this team. And they weren't nearly dominant enough in the
regular season to say, hey, let's get these guys reps
while still winning fifty plus games.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
No, definitely not this year, but I do think it's
fair to wonder next year, like with a new coach
who might emphasize depth a little bit more. If you
can get it, maybe you'll split it, split up Mitchell
Robinson's contract into two pieces.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
That like you can twelve million dollars.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, no, I understand, I understand, and that's that's rough
as hell, But like, perhaps you can find something. I'm
not saying it's gonna be easy that's I'm not I'm
not in that chair. I'm not getting paid millions of
dollars to make those decisions. But I mean, that's why
you have to scour with the market. That's why you
have to like turn every stone. But my point here
is if Tyler Kollik and Combattier.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Daddy a.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Place more minute's next year in the regular season, when
both are a year older now they have a year
of experience roughly, I just wouldn't hate it. I'm not
saying that's going to be the solution, but I'm the
type of person who would always prefer to shave off
minutes from my starters if I can get away with it.
Of course, I agree with you, you need something else, and
(24:21):
I do think finding a third big is some preciously
to you. It. Yeah, absolutely is something that should be
on the docket.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
There are a lot of things that should be on
the docket.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
But you consider the answers and she just mentioned Mitchell
Robinson turning him into two players. Is there any realm
in which the answer is, well, can you turn Karl
Anthony Towns into two or three rotation players and you're
better off that way?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
It depends on the rotation players, I would say, I mean,
the talent level is ridiculous. I'm not pivoting off that,
but I do agree that if you find the right
recipe where you can say, Okay, we turned Carl into
this and you get two high end starters in there
who just compliment everyone else perfectly, obviously you should look
(25:09):
at that. Yes, I'm not sitting here and saying that
Carl should be untouchable, but I am saying I think
we dramatically underestimate his offensive potential, offensive impact. If you know,
if he's let out of his handcuffs.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, I guess, I guess that's fair. Do you have
anything else that you want to get off your chest
about this decision which you seem a little bit less
surprised about than I did, But we're both skeptical that
it's going to make enough of a difference.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I look, there's been this thing for so many years
where Tips has had like a three year shell life
in a way, where like he's been this and then
he's kind of I don't know, maybe he's just dragged
on his players a lot and the players are starting
to tune him out. Five years I think he had
(25:58):
in Chicago five years here with the Knicks, was it
three in Minnesota?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Somewhere along those lines. It just it's not surprising. It
follows a pattern.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, again, I don't think it's shocking. I just thought
I I guess I was just under the guys that
knowing that I don't think that, and this is just
me thinking that I don't think that this is going
to fix enough of what needs to be fixed. I'm
just curious as to whether this signals the front office
disagrees in that context of no, like we think the
team is basically in place at a new culture make
(26:32):
the difference or is this just one of I don't
want to say many, but one of a couple of
significant changes to come over the offseason.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I do have a question which just not tips related.
So almost immediately after they got bounced, I don't remember
who had this, but there was this talk about all
the team is frustrating, frustrated about Towns and his defense
and not understanding some of the schemes and whatnot. Is
that what you're baking into your I want to say
(27:02):
town skepticism.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Like just the is it strictly the defense or similar
to it?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
No, I think it's the offense for me too, it's
just like the defense is okay. Maybe a new coach
won't play him and drop coverage as much. I don't
know if that's necessarily, Like how good is Karl Anthony
Town still is the center if he's not, Like, I
just don't I don't know what that looks like. So
I'd be skeptical of that for sure. But on offense,
it's the aggression waxes and wanes to a point that
and even when he's aggressive, it's like, you can't really
(27:31):
he's not elevating the play of others around him. And
then if the vision really was five out his three
point volume, which was the lowest it's been since TIBs
was coaching the Timberwolves, is like that doesn't fly. And
then it's is that a Karl Anthony Town's problem and
we have a track record of him not taking as
many threes as everyone would want throughout his career or
(27:51):
is that a tips thing? But then even you look
when he's aggressive, it's all right, like the live dribble
play making just isn't there. And I think the bigger
issue is can you keep him aggressive and involved alongside
another star? Because it felt like and you could say
this about Og, could say this about mchael Bridges, but
they're not supposed to be what Karl Anthony Towns is.
(28:12):
It just feels like he fades into the background too
often and his aggression was most unlocked. And the data
supports this when you put him in lineups not just
without Jalen Brunson, but lineups that were basically devoid of
any offensive alternatives, and so you have to do this
and just like that's I guess good that he proved
he could do that, but it's alarming that it takes
(28:33):
such extreme circumstances because is this someone who It makes
you wonder unless everyone around him is just an all
NBA defense level player, it's well, how does he fit
into a larger ecosystem where there's at least one other
offensive superstar near him, but also a guy in mckail
Bridges who you would expect more from. And Og kind
of made some offensive improvements, especially during that time Jalen
(28:55):
Brunton was out. And that's what I'm skeptical of is
that I don't know how Karl Anthony Town's at both
ends of the floor. I don't know if he impacts
the game enough as part of a larger ecosystem, and
if you're trying to design everything around him, I mean
defensively you wouldn't. But offensively it's all right, Well that's
I guess it could work. But like if the idea
is we just need to stagger our two best players
from one another as much as possible, that's like, this
(29:17):
isn't Evan Mobley versus Jared Allen where there's just redundancies.
It's no, these two in theory should compliment one another.
But and look, it could be on John Brunson a
little bit as well, to where it's is he better
off with a pick and pop big like Towns or
it seems like he's more comfortable working with the Mitchell
Robinson type, where it's a really hard screen center who
has that role man gravity. And you know, if you
(29:39):
could combine Towns and Mitchell Robinson into one player, he
might be great if you're the Knicks, but you can't.
And so John Brunson is the pole star who is
going to determine everything for the Knicks, and I think
that's something that they need to take into account when
they're building out this next team. And maybe it's just
we expended so many assets here, we're invested in this core.
We need to see if a different coach could change it.
I really do believe, though, that there's a ants This
(30:01):
wasn't so much a necessary change as the easiest change
that they could make.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I think that's.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Fair with that. Would you like to tell all our
subscribers and listeners where they can find you in all
the great work that you do? Oh?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Well, thank you, first and foremost, well, you can find
me over at Blue Sky, where I am linking to
most of my stuff. I keep forgetting it. I'm horrible
of that, but if you were interested in reading it,
you can just kind of google my name and then
Forbes or Yahoo and then my stonly fans only fans
as well. Yes, I need to update that page. It's
(30:34):
been a while. I have a lot of dms unread from.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
A whole twelve hours. Yeah, it's a long time.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, absolutely, So when I get that up and running again,
I'll be active on there as well for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Until next time, And as always, we leave you with
the shout out to the one, the only, the indelible,
the player who could have saved Tibbs's job had he
been on the roster. Mister Frank Yila Keina
What is up Fellasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you with the one the Only Mister mort Jensen of
the NBA Podcast fame, of Forbes fame, and of Yahoo
Yahoo Sports fame, as well as OnlyFans. Celebrity plans have
been scrapped, as we are inclined to do this time
(00:21):
of year, because the New York Knicks have fired head
coach Tom Thibodeaux after five seasons, fresh off giving him
a multi year extension last summer, and I believe he has.
Ian Begley said he had like ten plus million left
for the next three years at least on there, so
they're taking quite a bit of a hit. In the
statement before I throw it to More that Sham's had
(00:42):
for the report was that the knickser is basically hell
bent on winning a championship and they believe that a
different voice is going to change things for them. That's
what we're gonna pick up off and running. But first,
the question everyone wants to know the answer to moret
how the heck are you?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I am doing well? So is the ketchup stating that
I apparently have on my shirt. So yes, it's it's
a full hot I.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thought it was a blood from when you saw the
news and you're such a TIBs loyalist that you bit
part of your tongue off in blood drip.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh no, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I even brought up tips in our coach's Hot Seats segment.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Which, by the way, I think was fair. But it
is noteworthy when you make the Eastern Conference finals and
then get fired, I would say fairly.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
It is noteworthy. But are we shocked at all? Really?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So here's here's I'll take you through my reaction slash
thought process. Because we were having dinner when I saw
the notification. I didn't even click on the tweet. I
just read it. I was like, huh okay, and kept
going at it, to be honest, because it wasn't because
you know, I'm Homer Simpson and just focusing on the food.
(01:52):
It just like, yeah, not surprised, Like I just put
my phone down pretty quickly. It's like that makes sense
because look that the noise around him has just been
too much. Like this has been a thing all year long.
Every Knicks fan has had, you know, He's or her
moment where they're like this is enough, and you have
(02:14):
media punt it's also saying, look, this is becoming an
issue with the lack of bench usage and the lack
of offensive creativity and so on and so on. So
at some point I was just like, you know what,
unless he wins the title, I'm really sure we're at
least looking at a discussion here.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I think that's a fair way to look at it.
And I want to make it clear. I mean, anyone
who's ever listened, if you're stumbling onto this for the
first time, you may not know this, but on this podcast,
I have never once been what you would consider a
TIBs supporter. But I do think context is important here.
I believe that Tom Thibodeau is a was a problem
for the Knicks. I do not actually believe that he
(02:58):
was the problem. I think he showed some growth, and
I think that it took him too long to get there.
I mean, he explored more of his bench by the
end of the playoffs. Again, why weren't you doing that
all season? He finally got rid of the starting lineup,
which was mah for most of the year, and then
lost it two minutes during the playoffs. Took you too
long to do that. But what I keep coming back
to is what else was he honestly supposed to do
(03:21):
that would have made this exact roster more of a
contender than it ended up being. And it's not to
say that I think he was the right coach. I
think I guess. The two things I'm getting caught up
on is, if you're getting rid of him, you better
believe that you have the upgrade in mind. And I
don't know. I think Michael Malone is a really good
(03:41):
head coach. He feels a little tibsy into me. You know,
if you want someone to go, oh, we need to
see more of Tyler Kohlik next season, that would have
made a difference this year. That's not really your guy.
But the other thing I keep getting hung up on
is the Knicks gave up control of seven first round
picks last summer. They brought back McHale Bridges and Karl
Anthony Towns, neither of whom is nor have they ever
(04:04):
been a true number two option. And I think the
Bridges opportunity costs things the most. But he is even
further away from a traditional number two option than Karl
Anthony Towns. And the issue with Towns is, you know,
I criticized him a lot. For the three point volume,
he was at per minute, the lowest he was since
the first time he was with Tibbs as a head coach,
which the jokes going around are actually funny that Kat
(04:26):
got TIBs fired a second time. I do find that
a little hysterical. But like you can, like if, Towns
has never really been a number two and he's battled
these offensive inconsistencies and involvement issues. He's never been a
great live dribble playmaker. There's always been sort of the
why doesn't he take more threes about him? I don't
(04:46):
know how much of that you can't I won't even
say falls on Tibbs, but is something that a new
coach is going to fix. And I think what's gonna
be the big question here is that, And I would
argue that this can This definitely was Tibbs's fault to
an extent. The Jalen Brunson Karl Anthony Towns dynamic deteriorated
(05:07):
as the season went on, and so I was just
writing about this before we hopped on. But up until
January first more, John Brunson assisted on over twenty percent
of Karl Anthony Towns as buckets that number plummeted from
January first to when Jalen Brunson got injured, then it
plummeted again to about like fourteen percent during the playoffs.
It feels like by the end of the year felt
(05:28):
like they were two separate entities. It felt like they
were better off in staggered minutes than together. And that's
a problem. And I will also before I throw it
back to you, I will say it's a problem that
even if you think it can be solved offensively, I
don't know that it can be solved defensively. This might
always be a team where you're looking at it and saying,
oh no, like the nick just aren't going to be
(05:48):
able to cobble together this really good defense with those
two in the game at the same time. And so
what you're then I would assume banking on is well,
there was just so much left on the table offensively,
and that was the bigger issue here where people look
and they say, oh, fifth in point score per possession,
how much better are you supposed to get? Well, they
were fourteenth from January first onward. And I know Brunson
miss time with his ankle injury towards the end of
(06:10):
the year. So I understand the logic is what I'm
getting at, and I think it might even end up
being the right decision, But I also don't think that
it can be the only change that is made just
because I don't. I don't look at this roster, after
having seen it together for ninety plus games now, and
think that's a team that would beat the full strength Celtics,
(06:32):
or that's a team I know would beat the Calves,
or that's a team that you know, them making this
decision by the way we're recording this, you know, like
thirty six hours before the NBA Finals, them making this
decision before potentially witnessing the thunder, just establishing hey, no
one's even close to touching us. I also find that fascinating too,
So a lot of moving parts here. But if I
had to sum it up, my long winded ran away
(06:53):
of saying is I think it's justifiable, it might even
be the right call. But I don't think that if
they just run this roster back and add like an
eighth man, a different maybe an upgrade over the seventh man,
I don't think that's going to be enough to turn
them into the team that it's not just that they
were trying to be, but I would argue that they
have to be after you expended so many of your
(07:15):
assets last summer.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean, look, I agree with you very much along
the way here because I wrote a piece over at
Yahoo as well, where I also kind of pointed to
management saying, given the roster that he had to work with,
there are some shortages here and there, like the bench
for example. Are we supposed to sit here and say
(07:40):
tips could have created a strong product when the best
bench player is Mitchell Robinson and he didn't come back
until when was that.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Like March March?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Right, seventeen regular season games he played it.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, like virtually no regular season experience this year, and
Pacombe Dadier like a nineteen year old Frenchman who's getting climentated.
Like that's just that's tough, right. You can say, oh, well,
Cameron Pain is a veteran. Sure, he's also Cameron Pain.
So there's a limit to there's some limits to what
(08:13):
you can expect right at a certain level. Now, I
will say I do think Landry Shammitt that was a
little unfair to camera, But I mean, you get my drift.
I do think Landry Shammitt wasn't utilized enough like this.
This was a team that too often needed three point
volume and just a player who could come in and
stretch the floor. And for some reason you didn't play Shammit. Like,
(08:36):
I know, he's inconsistent, but he will have games where
he goes like six for nine. He will have games
where that three is sticking and he could actually help them.
So for him to get so many games where he's
playing like ten minutes or even not playing much at all, and.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
That was dumb. That was that was just ridiculous. So
it it's again.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It's one of those situations where you actually said it
Tips was a problem, not the problem. I think that's
the best takeaway from this. But I mean, you have
to solve issues one at a time. So if Tips
was a problem, now you have to fix that, and
then afterwards you have to fix the roster. You have
to find ways to get depth right. So if you
(09:18):
get a coach in who is more let's say provisioned
in regards to minute's distribution and in just in terms
of building a bench unit that kind of works, and
also not playing all five starters over thirty five minutes
per game in the regular season that might also just
be a factor.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I can actually ask you a question about that. Yes,
of course I do tend to agree with you about
the minute stuff, But everybody finished the season healthy for them.
Do you think when you were watching them that exhaustion
played a role in how they ended up varing against
the Pacers? Because I looked at it as more of
a person snell, like the talent and the strength of
(10:02):
the personnel issue, rather than man, look how many minutes
they logged up until.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
This point, specifically against the Pacers.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I don't think it was that egregious, but I do
think we saw plenty of regular season games over the
course of the year where you saw a lot of
those guys just huffing and puffing, and there wasn't a
whole lot of gas left. So you kind of wonder
what would have been the effect here if you had
been able to shave off some of those man's I mean,
(10:30):
we saw. I think Cleveland is a good example. When
Kenny Atkinson came in, he basically played every one of
the main guys in the low thirties or late twenties.
They had staying power. Of course, they got injured at
just the worst time, that their timing was awful, something
that for some reason seems to be flying under the radar.
Everyone is trying to break up the backcourt right now,
(10:51):
which I don't understand, Like there is.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Really Yeah, I must be so in my silo. I
haven't seen it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
That's like when I say everyone, I don't mean media,
I don't mean like analysts, I mean like fans. That's
I keep seeing it pop up in like you know,
on Instagram, on Facebook, like the comment section, like oh
this backboard, and I'm I've seen it a ton, and
I'm just like what what?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Why? Why is that a thing?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
You have to run things back, and you have to
run them back in order to also optimize it. Do
I think the Knicks were optimized given that Josh Hart
and Mikhail Bridges were both playing forty seven plus minutes
per game, that o Jan Andobi was also damn near
forty seven per game. No, I don't think that's optimized.
I think I would want a team that is that
(11:38):
potent in terms of like the raw talent level to
enter the postseason fully healthy and if you can shave
games off just by having them play lesser a fewer minutes, Yeah,
so be it.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I mean, it's good if you again.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, Mikail Bridges
shouldn't play eighty two games per year, but he will
automatically save games if he goes from thirty seven to
forty two minutes per game, like he will just kind
of I don't I haven't done the math, but he'll
shave like what five six seven games off technically over
the course of a season.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
That's not nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
No, it's not nothing. I guess it's just you have
the talent on this roster to continue to win basketball games.
While doing that. I think you could argue that the
Knicks needed to. I mean, it's probably more egregious when
you look at their losses that they have and they
were over there twenty nine of them this year or
thirty one of them, excuse me, and so you could say, like,
why didn't he pull like for sure, So I would
(12:35):
agree with you there, But then that comes back to
sort of the the depth issue of it. Does I
don't know how much he was supposed to extend it,
especially with because until much Robinson comes back, you're dealing
with six dependable players. And I agree with you on
all your Landry sham at points. I think he kind
of proved as much during the playoffs, where even gave
him some fight on defense too, like defended some of
the pacers as bigs provided some ball pressure of their own.
(12:58):
But he was dealing with the shouldery for half the season.
And so it's like, when he comes back, how are
you supposed to integrate him to the train that's already moving.
So it's complicated, and so I think I think there
are kind of two more questions just to ask on
this subject. And the first is are there any names
that you've seen or that you can think of that
you think makes sense to slide in here to replace Thibodeau?
(13:21):
And if there's sort of a dearth of answers on
either one of our ends, like that sort of speaks
to I won't say how problematic this is, but how
risky of a gambit the Knicks are making right here.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It's a good question. I look this having a couple
hours ago. I haven't really duck down and like looked
at available coaches. I'll be completely upfront about that. What
a thought that did hit me was kind of scouring
the college ranks and trying to identify some of the
most hotent offensive coaches out there, because I do think
(13:53):
this team needs to lean in on offense a lot.
Like I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, you
have a meeting with Josh Hard and Mkilbridge is no
genon noban, you tell all three, hey, guys, stop playing defense.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
That's not what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I'm saying that you have to make sure that offense
is the you know, the drying vehicle of this and
what Josh Hart Mkilbridge's no genin nob he gives you defensively,
obviously is also going to be necessary, but the focus
should be on optimizing, you know, floor spacing, three point
volume offensive diversity, because let's just be real, it's a
(14:26):
lot of one or two pass go offense for tips.
He's not exactly a mastermind offensively, he never has been.
So I would like to see that narrative or not narrative.
I would like to see the script just flipped a
little bit, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work,
but I at least want to see it. I've told
you this before. I think there is a version of
(14:48):
Karl Anthony Towns who can average like an efficient thirty
per game. I think he's that good of an offensive
offensive player. He has to be geared towards it. But
he also needs to have a coach who understands how
to implement him and use him and kind of encourage
him to take more threes, encourage him to take more shots.
And I just don't think Tips is that guy.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I'd be curious to see if they'd be willing to
go in a first time direction. I think this front
office has gone against the grain under Leon Rose relative
to the Knicks that everyone memed years ago, So it
wouldn't shock me if they're trying to get in on
you know, Chris Quinn. It just like seems like one
of the more coveted, just like assistant guys. But it's
also just you know, I mean, we saw the Lakers
(15:32):
do it with JJ Reddick just as one example, and
that's a high pressure job with a first time head coach.
But I part of me just feels like it would
be fairly surprising to see them go with the first
time round. I hope, honestly, I hope just for the
memes and the jokes, that Jay Wright gets an interview.
I hope that he just gets an interview just to
the Villanova connection. And then, by the way, that's another
(15:53):
part of this. I'm assuming you consult Jalen Brunson about
this after he takes such a below market deal that
his extension last year, so I guess he wouldn't have
like defended or like prevented them from doing it. But
if you did do this and didn't like kind of
get his approve or stamp okay, that would be weird
and I would just be curious how he would process
all of this because I would argue that he's been
(16:15):
more supportive of Tibbs than like ninety five percent of
star players in the NBA are of their head coach.
So that's just another weird wrinkle.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I mean, I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't
talk to him. But at the end of the day,
he also seems to be very low maintenance, so maybe
they kind of bake that in and go, hey, you
know what, like he'll find a way.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, does Rick Brunson still have an assistant coaching job?
How does that work? Now?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Just make sure my dad is okay.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, imagine he's the next head coach.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, all right, that'd be funny. I'd be there for
that narrative. That'd be funny. No, I can't imagine. I
can't imagine, But like, yeah, even if you go out
and scoured like the assistant coaches around the league, that'd
be fine. I wouldn't hate that. Also, I wouldn't hate
to see them also begin to make additional hires around
(17:10):
the margins. So, for example, the Bulls inexplicably fired Peter Patton,
their shooting coach, a guy who really made a name
for himself when he was in New Orleans. We all
know Chicago didn't have great space and going into the
season he turned that around. I think they ended up
being like the second best three point shooting team in
(17:30):
the league. Then they fired him because management or idiots
like hiring him to a new head coach and having
him work a ton with Josh Hart and Mikail Bridges,
who seems to be changing his jump shot every seven months.
Maybe getting some sustainability there, Like just whoever you hire,
I wouldn't stop there with a head coach and then
(17:53):
just his normal army of assistants. I want to be
proactive about this and go in and get the best
guys for the job. You have to if you want
to have a crack at it.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
I was already kind of hoping that maybe they would
figure out a way to bring in Terry Stotts to
help run the offense next season, just under TIBs, Like
that was sort of I thought that was I don't know,
maybe Tibbs wasn't open to it. And we have the
report from I think it was Ian Begley that James
Dolan was present in like some of these exit interviews
with players, which is very atypical, and so was the
(18:24):
decision alreadymade? Did he consult these guys about the TIBs thing?
But I just wondered, why didn't you maybe do more
to futs and fiddle with the staff under TIBs if
you were looking for a more creative offense or someone
to be just like give the input of like, hey
we need to extend the rotation or try this. I honestly,
like I said, I'm not shocked, but I am mildly surprised,
just given that I don't know that this is a
(18:45):
like when a coach get fires, it feels like it's
a no brainer because there's obviously a clear upgrade or
like air apparent out there. Or they just lost the
locker room entirely. And now we know what Mchael Bridges
said a couple months ago, and we know that Towns
and TIBs don't have like the best track record together.
So maybe there was some stuff like festering that then
bubbled to the surface and this was reached the point
(19:06):
of no return. But I think that's the part that
why I'm still mildly surprised is that this doesn't feel
like a no brainer decision to me. I do want
to have the final question I would ask on this
is what is the like the next biggest problem? Then
for them, we're gonna have more on their offseason. It's
coming shortly everyone, I promise, but just as like not
(19:27):
necessarily going into the weeds and addressing everything. But what
do you view as this team's because I'm assuming unless
I'm detecting something, I'm not like, you don't view this
as a contender is currently constructed? Right? Or do you
think that the head coaching change does kind of prove
to be the skeleton key that puts them on that level?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
No, I mean you need one more thing and that's
that's stepped well already kind of kind of covered that
a little bit. I think they're closer than what most
people make them out ask because they do have the
top tier talent level. I mean, there's just no debate
about that. They have great, great, top tier talent. I
think it kind of flew onto the radar a little
bit because Mikail was Let's just be real about this,
(20:09):
Mikail was sort of a disappointment here in year one.
It wasn't just his three point shot, it was the defense.
You and I have talked about that at lengths. He
wasn't as plug and playable as you hoped he was,
especially for what you relinquished Tory services. So he'll need
a bounce back year and again, if Cameron Payne is
(20:30):
one of your key pinch guys, you're just not going
to make it that far. He shouldn't be playing in
the playoffs. He shouldn't be playing a lot, generally speaking.
So if you fix the depth, if you get a
creative offensive coach in there and perhaps a shooting coach,
and you kind of work around the margins with some
of the stuff. I actually think they're closer to a
(20:52):
title than most might make it appear, as I think.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
The biggest question they may still need to answer is
do they think that predominantly Karl Anthony Towns is a
four or five? Because I think that impacts how you
go about fleshing out your debt. Well, then you're saying
that you can build a capable defense around him and
John Brunson, and I don't necessarily know if that's the case, Like,
what do you to upgrade from Josh Hart on the
(21:17):
defensive end? Orduce McBride in those minutes is just and
then if you're gonna say, well, Mitchell Robinson, and then
that slides Karl Anthony Towns to the four, and that
creates other sorts of issues to where those minutes are intriguing.
Don't get me wrong, but if you are worried about
Karnthy Towns and Jalen Brunson not being involved in enough
actions together, inserting someone else who needs to be the
primary screener and Mitchell Robinson isn't going to help that.
(21:39):
But if you do decide that's the best course moving forward,
you then need a third big for sure, because I
know you can stagger Mitch and Karl Anthony Towns, but
when they're beginning games together, that just gets inherently more difficult.
Un So like a precious to Chua isn't gonna cut it.
You need a third, either someone to start in lieu
of Mitchell Robinson and he comes off the bench, or
just bringing a capable bigon come off the bench. And
(22:00):
if you view Karl Anthony Towns as a five, then
I think what the question then becomes is like, how
do we either optimize the defense around him or what's
the player? What's the starter we need to add to
optimize the offense between him and Jalen Brunson. And we
know it's not heart in that instance, it won't be
Mitchell Robinson. Deuce McBride played forty minutes more in total
(22:21):
in the regular season in playoffs with the four other
starters that aren't Josh Hart so like, and that's just
really tough. And this bleeds into well, they don't have
a first round pick to trade this summer, and at
most they're gonna have the Mini mid level, which comes
in at five point seven million dollars to spend in
free agency. I don't know what. Maybe that gets you
a like a really useful player, Does it get you
(22:43):
a starter, Does it get you a sixth or seventh guy.
I don't know, but like that's just they're in a
tough spot to say, even if you want to boil
it down to they just need more depth. They're a
tough spot to carve out more depth. And like, I
just don't think the answer is in house, I guess,
is what I'm saying, because it's more of You could
say Tim isn't good at developing the youngsters, but I
(23:03):
don't know if more of Pacomb Dottie or Tyler Kohlik
would have moved the needle in the right direction for
this team. And they weren't nearly dominant enough in the
regular season to say, hey, let's get these guys reps
while still winning fifty plus games.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
No, definitely not this year, but I do think it's
fair to wonder next year, like with a new coach
who might emphasize depth a little bit more. If you
can get it, maybe you'll split it, split up Mitchell
Robinson's contract into two pieces.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
That like you can twelve million dollars.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, no, I understand, I understand, and that's that's rough
as hell, But like, perhaps you can find something. I'm
not saying it's gonna be easy that's I'm not I'm
not in that chair. I'm not getting paid millions of
dollars to make those decisions. But I mean, that's why
you have to scour with the market. That's why you
have to like turn every stone. But my point here
is if Tyler Kollik and Combattier.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Daddy a.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Place more minute's next year in the regular season, when
both are a year older now they have a year
of experience roughly, I just wouldn't hate it. I'm not
saying that's going to be the solution, but I'm the
type of person who would always prefer to shave off
minutes from my starters if I can get away with it.
Of course, I agree with you, you need something else, and
(24:21):
I do think finding a third big is some preciously
to you. It. Yeah, absolutely is something that should be
on the docket.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
There are a lot of things that should be on
the docket.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
But you consider the answers and she just mentioned Mitchell
Robinson turning him into two players. Is there any realm
in which the answer is, well, can you turn Karl
Anthony Towns into two or three rotation players and you're
better off that way?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
It depends on the rotation players, I would say, I mean,
the talent level is ridiculous. I'm not pivoting off that,
but I do agree that if you find the right
recipe where you can say, Okay, we turned Carl into
this and you get two high end starters in there
who just compliment everyone else perfectly, obviously you should look
(25:09):
at that. Yes, I'm not sitting here and saying that
Carl should be untouchable, but I am saying I think
we dramatically underestimate his offensive potential, offensive impact. If you know,
if he's let out of his handcuffs.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, I guess, I guess that's fair. Do you have
anything else that you want to get off your chest
about this decision which you seem a little bit less
surprised about than I did, But we're both skeptical that
it's going to make enough of a difference.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I look, there's been this thing for so many years
where Tips has had like a three year shell life
in a way, where like he's been this and then
he's kind of I don't know, maybe he's just dragged
on his players a lot and the players are starting
to tune him out. Five years I think he had
(25:58):
in Chicago five years here with the Knicks, was it
three in Minnesota?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Somewhere along those lines. It just it's not surprising. It
follows a pattern.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, again, I don't think it's shocking. I just thought
I I guess I was just under the guys that
knowing that I don't think that, and this is just
me thinking that I don't think that this is going
to fix enough of what needs to be fixed. I'm
just curious as to whether this signals the front office
disagrees in that context of no, like we think the
team is basically in place at a new culture make
(26:32):
the difference or is this just one of I don't
want to say many, but one of a couple of
significant changes to come over the offseason.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I do have a question which just not tips related.
So almost immediately after they got bounced, I don't remember
who had this, but there was this talk about all
the team is frustrating, frustrated about Towns and his defense
and not understanding some of the schemes and whatnot. Is
that what you're baking into your I want to say
(27:02):
town skepticism.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Like just the is it strictly the defense or similar
to it?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
No, I think it's the offense for me too, it's
just like the defense is okay. Maybe a new coach
won't play him and drop coverage as much. I don't
know if that's necessarily, Like how good is Karl Anthony
Town still is the center if he's not, Like, I
just don't I don't know what that looks like. So
I'd be skeptical of that for sure. But on offense,
it's the aggression waxes and wanes to a point that
and even when he's aggressive, it's like, you can't really
(27:31):
he's not elevating the play of others around him. And
then if the vision really was five out his three
point volume, which was the lowest it's been since TIBs
was coaching the Timberwolves, is like that doesn't fly. And
then it's is that a Karl Anthony Town's problem and
we have a track record of him not taking as
many threes as everyone would want throughout his career or
(27:51):
is that a tips thing? But then even you look
when he's aggressive, it's all right, like the live dribble
play making just isn't there. And I think the bigger
issue is can you keep him aggressive and involved alongside
another star? Because it felt like and you could say
this about Og, could say this about mchael Bridges, but
they're not supposed to be what Karl Anthony Towns is.
(28:12):
It just feels like he fades into the background too
often and his aggression was most unlocked. And the data
supports this when you put him in lineups not just
without Jalen Brunson, but lineups that were basically devoid of
any offensive alternatives, and so you have to do this
and just like that's I guess good that he proved
he could do that, but it's alarming that it takes
(28:33):
such extreme circumstances because is this someone who It makes
you wonder unless everyone around him is just an all
NBA defense level player, it's well, how does he fit
into a larger ecosystem where there's at least one other
offensive superstar near him, but also a guy in mckail
Bridges who you would expect more from. And Og kind
of made some offensive improvements, especially during that time Jalen
(28:55):
Brunton was out. And that's what I'm skeptical of is
that I don't know how Karl Anthony Town's at both
ends of the floor. I don't know if he impacts
the game enough as part of a larger ecosystem, and
if you're trying to design everything around him, I mean
defensively you wouldn't. But offensively it's all right, Well that's
I guess it could work. But like if the idea
is we just need to stagger our two best players
from one another as much as possible, that's like, this
(29:17):
isn't Evan Mobley versus Jared Allen where there's just redundancies.
It's no, these two in theory should compliment one another.
But and look, it could be on John Brunson a
little bit as well, to where it's is he better
off with a pick and pop big like Towns or
it seems like he's more comfortable working with the Mitchell
Robinson type, where it's a really hard screen center who
has that role man gravity. And you know, if you
(29:39):
could combine Towns and Mitchell Robinson into one player, he
might be great if you're the Knicks, but you can't.
And so John Brunson is the pole star who is
going to determine everything for the Knicks, and I think
that's something that they need to take into account when
they're building out this next team. And maybe it's just
we expended so many assets here, we're invested in this core.
We need to see if a different coach could change it.
I really do believe, though, that there's a ants This
(30:01):
wasn't so much a necessary change as the easiest change
that they could make.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I think that's.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Fair with that. Would you like to tell all our
subscribers and listeners where they can find you in all
the great work that you do? Oh?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Well, thank you, first and foremost, well, you can find
me over at Blue Sky, where I am linking to
most of my stuff. I keep forgetting it. I'm horrible
of that, but if you were interested in reading it,
you can just kind of google my name and then
Forbes or Yahoo and then my stonly fans only fans
as well. Yes, I need to update that page. It's
(30:34):
been a while. I have a lot of dms unread from.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
A whole twelve hours. Yeah, it's a long time.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, absolutely, So when I get that up and running again,
I'll be active on there as well for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Until next time, And as always, we leave you with
the shout out to the one, the only, the indelible,
the player who could have saved Tibbs's job had he
been on the roster. Mister Frank Yila Keina
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