June 6, 2023 • 15 mins
We're living in an era in which unpredictable, violent threats to our wellbeing have become an unwelcome aspect of our daily lives. Gun ownership is certainly one of the most popular responses to defending the household or loves ones from such a threat. But the application of deadly force is often, quite naturally, coupled with the question--can I take a life? Plus, the very real sensation of trigger hesitancy could render a firearm both useless and even more dangerous for the gun owner--turning a very bad situation into something much, much worse.
What if you could de-escalate a threat and incapacitate an attacker--without having to apply lethal force?
We recently became aware of the folks at Byrna Technologies and their line of non-lethal launchers, in particular--the Byrna SD UnGun. This product can provide you and your family with the security you need--without having to resort to the use of deadly force
In this episode of The Armstrong & Getty Extra Large Podcast, Jack Armstrong & Joe Getty are joined by Luan Pham (Byrna Technologies) and an Ungun owner, Dr. Jenn Stankus, to talk about the virtues of Byrna's non-lethal launchers...
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So crime is up and you like the idea of
having a gun in your home or carrying a gun,
but you don't like all the aspects of the whole
gun thing. Ah, we got something for you, Armstrong and
Getty extra Large.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Because four hours simply.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
This is Armstrong and Getty extra Large. You may have
heard us doing commercials for the Berna Launcher. It's a
self protection device very much like a gun, but it
won't kill somebody. It will repel them in a big hurry.
(00:34):
It's a terrific product, and we can get into some
of the particulars of it. But the reason we're doing
this podcast is in some of the behind the scenes
discussions with folks involved with Berna, We've had some really
really interesting chats about the Second Amendment in the use
of deadly force and the psychology of it, and it's
just really interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So, and I'm a gun owner, I'm pro Second Amendment.
I own several guns and everything like that, but there
are a lot of legal problems with bringing out the
gun if somebody brings into breaks into your home, whether
you like it or not.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, depending on where you live, especially. But we're joined
by Luan fam who's the chief revenue and marketing officer
for Berna and is really up on these issues. Lan,
How are you good?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
How are you guys?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
We're terrific. Thanks. So let's talk about, you know, the
advantages and disadvantages of deadly force as opposed to less
than deadly forced. Because I know you're an expert in this.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you, you know so full transparency. I am also
a gun advocate, I am a gun practitioner. I support
the Second Amendment, but also believe in the strategic self
defense strategies that every American should take because, as you
as we believe, one bullet can ruin two lives and
(01:56):
in many states, and the laws are gray. And then
you over apply deadly force, you can find yourself in
hot water really quick. You risk your freedom, you risk
losing your assets, and you have to be extremely strategic
in how you approach the use of force when someone
(02:19):
is attacking you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So I'm laying in bed, for instance, I hear a noise,
then I hear you know, I get the idea somebody
is in my home. I grab my actual gun, I
go out there. You know, there's no shooting somebody. You know,
It's not like the old Western movies. I mean, there's
no like shooting. I'm gonna shoot them in the leg
(02:43):
and just wound them or whatever. I mean. I'm applying
deadly voice force if I pull the trigger and then
I and then I'm in all kinds of legal program problems,
even if they broke into my house.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yes, and then, as you guys stated earlier, it depends
on where you live. But in general, if you who
apply deadly force, there are so many different is that
faces the homeowner. Right if that person, that intruder is unarmed,
God forbid, if the intruder is friendly, you are responsible
(03:13):
for that bullet once you pull the trigger. So you
have to be extremely careful in how you approach the
threat or analyze the situation. I would come out of
my bedroom with my burna less lethal launcher packed with
not only kinetic AMMO but chemical irritants consisting of pure
gas and pepper, and then supported by my nine millimeter.
(03:39):
And so as you think about you know you're in bed,
you wake up, you don't have all of your faculties.
It probably come out of deep sleep, and starting with
less lethal from my perspective, allows you to get your
mind in order. And then hopefully address the threat using
(03:59):
less lethal force and essentially stopping that threat without having
to resort to what we call the nuclear mode where
you have to transition to your firearm. And well, it
was that way, so go ahead.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I was just going to say, that's one of the
more interesting conversations we've had. I remember when we first
chatted about how many people will have deadly force or nothing,
and when it comes down to that moment to pull
the trigger, they realize I can't take a life. I'm
just not made like that, and then they're defenseless.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That's correct, And what firearms owners, I think there's a
phenomenon of trigger hesitancy is extremely real, and you are
facing that situation and you pull your weapon with the
intention to fire it. It's how we're taught that a
lot of things run through your head, and lots of
(04:55):
it is you know, dealing Can I take a life?
And I opening a box of complexities that will require
legal representation and law enforcement and then potentially jail. So
when these things rush your head, you will hesitate, and
when you hesitate, it becomes very dangerous situations for you.
(05:17):
So what our products provide its users is it eliminates trigger.
Heasmans to be because you know that you're not going
to take a life, and you're going to de escalate
the threat by incapacitating the attacker for thirty to forty minutes.
And should you accidentally shoot a friendly or someone is
in your house that you've forgotten, you invited them, they
(05:38):
have the key. You know, the results are much better
than if you applied lethal force in a situation where
a you know efernally is involved.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And so I've got I've got one of these burn
of guns. I've got it in my bedroom and it
looks and feels and loads just like a glock or whatever.
And I go out into the living room with that,
and there is a bad guy there. What is the
burned gun going to do to them?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So, if you're shooting the chemical irritants consisting of tear
gas and pepper, upon impact, it will essentially neutralize your
sential nervous system. Your respiratory system will be attacked, your
lungs feel like they're collapsing. Any areas of exposed skin
will feel like it's on fire, your nose runs uncontrollably,
(06:26):
and you will not want to open your eyes because
it's that painful, and these effects last for thirty to
forty minutes, giving you the opportunity to escape. Moreover, if
you miss the chemical round will let's say you miss
the attacker and you hit the back wall, it will
create a six foot dispersion cloud that any person within
(06:49):
six feet will be affected. So even misshots can be
very effective, you know, within close quarters.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, and it's not a single shot deal either. It
can squeeze off a couple. What about the so called
kinetic rounds that don't have the chemical aspect to them.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Sure, the kinetic rounds consist of one a solid sixty
eight projectile made of high end polymer like very strong
plastic that is capable of breaking side autoglass from thirty
feet away. So when you get hit with this with
that round, it's going to feel like you've been shot,
and it's extremely painful. And so it really the escalates
(07:32):
the situation using the force less people forced, and in
combination the round could be. Using combination, you could have
kinetic rounds and chemical rounds in your magazine and in
our With our product, the launchers have an effective range
of sixty feet and on a CO two you can
(07:53):
shoot up to twenty rounds off an eight gram CO
two and the gun is or the launcher is as
they're ready, so are We have a proprietary technology that's
called pull Pierce where you can have the launcher loaded
with the CO two inside and they can be stored indefinitely.
So when there's a threat, you pull your weapon, you
(08:16):
pull the trigger. It punctures the CO two and sends
the first round instantaneously, so at the same time and
we have five round magazines, we have seven round magazines,
so that'll gives you that opportunity to have multiple shots
at a safe distance up to sixty feet and you
can address and assess the situation and determine if that
(08:40):
situation requires an escalation of force and use of force.
And most of the time that's not the case, but
if it is the case, then you have to do
what you have to do to protect yourself and your family.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So the Burner launcher again, which you know it's like
having a glock in your hand, but it's not a
glock in your hand. What are the law because like,
my guns are locked up, and I understand why I've
got kids in the house and everything like that. The laws,
the practicality of safety and everything like that. But I've
always thought, Man, if somebody breaks into my house, I'm
(09:12):
you know, half asleep like you're talking about. I got
to go get the key, then come unlock it, then
low and you know all the stuff, the steps I
gotta take. What are the laws around having this burn
a launcher handy or can I have it in my car?
Can I be out and about with it?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's a great question. The burner launcher is legal in
all fifty states. It doesn't require a background check to
own one or to purchase one. That doesn't require a
permit to own one. It's not classified by the ATF
as a firearm. It's essentially an air launcher in the past.
To ATF is the client of ours and we service
(09:49):
many government agencies and hundreds and hundreds of police departments,
and so you can have it in your car. Again,
we would recommend that you check your local laws just
for to ensure that the product is faith to transport,
But in general we say, is lego mpp S fake,
(10:11):
You can have it in your car. I'm here in
Las Vegas. The car, my vehicle is considered an extension
of my home, so I can have that launcher in
the car. If I were to carry it around town,
i am concealed, I would need to have a concealed
carry permit. And again each city and its local laws
are different. So we just recommend ours to our customers
(10:32):
that check and then confirm and then know what the
usage and bandwidth is with regards to your home, that's
your domain. You could have it anywhere you want. You
have young children, we highly recommend that you treat our
product as a weapon, and it is a weapon, and
so make sure you have all these safety precautions in
(10:53):
place where young children don't have easy access to the
product or to the device and use it accordingly.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I'm glad you mentioned that hundreds of police agencies use this.
That's what sold me and made me a customer. Honestly,
I thought, wow, if they're using this as less than
lethal force, that's a good recommendation. So professionals and FEDS
are using it. Cops and also doctor Jen Stankis, who's
an emergency medicine physician, is a fan of the Berna launcher,
and doctor Jen joins us, now, how are you.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I'm doing great, Thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Well, it's our pleasure. What convinced you that this was
a product for you?
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Well, first I should give you a little bit more background,
former law enforcement, former military times too, including being a
JAG officer and part time military judge, and now as
an emergency physician. I also do a lot of expert
witness work and I've helped you defend people who have
(11:55):
quite frankly you self defense appropriately and still go to jail.
And for me, having been in law enforcement and think
about self defense a lot, constantly reviewing what my options are.
And I learned about this product maybe a couple of
years ago, and I had no idea what it was.
(12:18):
And when one of our neighbors, who's a huge pro
two a guy always has a can field carry with him,
told me that he was going to this, it really
perked my interest and I looked into it. And the
more I've learned, the more of a proponent I am
of it, and now being great friends with Luan and
(12:39):
I do scenario training with it at home. It's just
it's my go to self defense.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Tool.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I would say, so do I understand correctly? And I
think we all did, because you spoke quite plainly you
were in law enforcement, a JAG officer and now you're
an emergency physician.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Well thanks for making us all feel so bad about ourselves. Wow,
what next astronomy we're going on?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Being an astronaut?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
I would love to be an astronautor right now, I
just apply airplane.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
So wow, fantastic. H So there you go, there you go,
and that expert testimony. Oh, that's got to be so
troubling when you see somebody who was in good conscience
trying to do the right things protect themselves and their family,
and all of a sudden their life is upended and
perhaps ruined.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
It's actually quite terrifying to see. And as Luan pointed out,
it really depends on the jurisdiction where you are, from
city to county to state, it really varies. And just
having the feeling safe, I think is one of the
most important things for people in terms of being able
(13:55):
to go about their business and having a tool that
really will protect you in every way legally and physically,
I think is really important.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Doctor Jenstankis Salon fam from Burna b y r NA
dot com. B y r NA dot com. Interesting stuff.
Thanks for the time.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, I could really see this be in the future,
couldn't you. It fills in. I mean, it just it
checks so many boxes.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Oh yeah, yeah. And obviously if you've been following the news,
you know that there's real interest in police not overusing force,
which is great, it's proper in a free society. And
the fact that they're by the hundreds of agencies turning
to this sort of thing. Yeah, it's big.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
It's important.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You know, you don't know about trigger hesitancy until you're
ever in that situation. But I think I would have
no trouble shooting somebody if I thought they were threat
I would hesitate on has this gone far enough that
I'm not gonna end up in jail over That's that
I know. I would have hesitantzy about that.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yes, at what point in this scenario is it justified
right as judged by twelve dopes in some trial?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Maybe right anyway, And the fact that Berna, you know,
I had that conversation with my son the other day,
the whole Uh, rather be judged by twelve than carried
by six? Well, you know, if it comes down to
carried by six, yeah, I would take that choice. But
being judged by twelve would be no walk in the
park either.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
No, no, indeed, better to send a purp to his
knees crying or squealing and running.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Away, right, And you get out of there and call
the police, and you're not gonna, you know, have to
hire a lawyer and defend yourself as a murderer or something.
Oh my god, right, interesting stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Horrible
So crime is up and you like the idea of
having a gun in your home or carrying a gun,
but you don't like all the aspects of the whole
gun thing. Ah, we got something for you, Armstrong and
Getty extra Large.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Because four hours simply.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
This is Armstrong and Getty extra Large. You may have
heard us doing commercials for the Berna Launcher. It's a
self protection device very much like a gun, but it
won't kill somebody. It will repel them in a big hurry.
(00:34):
It's a terrific product, and we can get into some
of the particulars of it. But the reason we're doing
this podcast is in some of the behind the scenes
discussions with folks involved with Berna, We've had some really
really interesting chats about the Second Amendment in the use
of deadly force and the psychology of it, and it's
just really interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So, and I'm a gun owner, I'm pro Second Amendment.
I own several guns and everything like that, but there
are a lot of legal problems with bringing out the
gun if somebody brings into breaks into your home, whether
you like it or not.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, depending on where you live, especially. But we're joined
by Luan fam who's the chief revenue and marketing officer
for Berna and is really up on these issues. Lan,
How are you good?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
How are you guys?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
We're terrific. Thanks. So let's talk about, you know, the
advantages and disadvantages of deadly force as opposed to less
than deadly forced. Because I know you're an expert in this.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you, you know so full transparency. I am also
a gun advocate, I am a gun practitioner. I support
the Second Amendment, but also believe in the strategic self
defense strategies that every American should take because, as you
as we believe, one bullet can ruin two lives and
(01:56):
in many states, and the laws are gray. And then
you over apply deadly force, you can find yourself in
hot water really quick. You risk your freedom, you risk
losing your assets, and you have to be extremely strategic
in how you approach the use of force when someone
(02:19):
is attacking you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So I'm laying in bed, for instance, I hear a noise,
then I hear you know, I get the idea somebody
is in my home. I grab my actual gun, I
go out there. You know, there's no shooting somebody. You know,
It's not like the old Western movies. I mean, there's
no like shooting. I'm gonna shoot them in the leg
(02:43):
and just wound them or whatever. I mean. I'm applying
deadly voice force if I pull the trigger and then
I and then I'm in all kinds of legal program problems,
even if they broke into my house.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yes, and then, as you guys stated earlier, it depends
on where you live. But in general, if you who
apply deadly force, there are so many different is that
faces the homeowner. Right if that person, that intruder is unarmed,
God forbid, if the intruder is friendly, you are responsible
(03:13):
for that bullet once you pull the trigger. So you
have to be extremely careful in how you approach the
threat or analyze the situation. I would come out of
my bedroom with my burna less lethal launcher packed with
not only kinetic AMMO but chemical irritants consisting of pure
gas and pepper, and then supported by my nine millimeter.
(03:39):
And so as you think about you know you're in bed,
you wake up, you don't have all of your faculties.
It probably come out of deep sleep, and starting with
less lethal from my perspective, allows you to get your
mind in order. And then hopefully address the threat using
(03:59):
less lethal force and essentially stopping that threat without having
to resort to what we call the nuclear mode where
you have to transition to your firearm. And well, it
was that way, so go ahead.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I was just going to say, that's one of the
more interesting conversations we've had. I remember when we first
chatted about how many people will have deadly force or nothing,
and when it comes down to that moment to pull
the trigger, they realize I can't take a life. I'm
just not made like that, and then they're defenseless.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That's correct, And what firearms owners, I think there's a
phenomenon of trigger hesitancy is extremely real, and you are
facing that situation and you pull your weapon with the
intention to fire it. It's how we're taught that a
lot of things run through your head, and lots of
(04:55):
it is you know, dealing Can I take a life?
And I opening a box of complexities that will require
legal representation and law enforcement and then potentially jail. So
when these things rush your head, you will hesitate, and
when you hesitate, it becomes very dangerous situations for you.
(05:17):
So what our products provide its users is it eliminates trigger.
Heasmans to be because you know that you're not going
to take a life, and you're going to de escalate
the threat by incapacitating the attacker for thirty to forty minutes.
And should you accidentally shoot a friendly or someone is
in your house that you've forgotten, you invited them, they
(05:38):
have the key. You know, the results are much better
than if you applied lethal force in a situation where
a you know efernally is involved.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And so I've got I've got one of these burn
of guns. I've got it in my bedroom and it
looks and feels and loads just like a glock or whatever.
And I go out into the living room with that,
and there is a bad guy there. What is the
burned gun going to do to them?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So, if you're shooting the chemical irritants consisting of tear
gas and pepper, upon impact, it will essentially neutralize your
sential nervous system. Your respiratory system will be attacked, your
lungs feel like they're collapsing. Any areas of exposed skin
will feel like it's on fire, your nose runs uncontrollably,
(06:26):
and you will not want to open your eyes because
it's that painful, and these effects last for thirty to
forty minutes, giving you the opportunity to escape. Moreover, if
you miss the chemical round will let's say you miss
the attacker and you hit the back wall, it will
create a six foot dispersion cloud that any person within
(06:49):
six feet will be affected. So even misshots can be
very effective, you know, within close quarters.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, and it's not a single shot deal either. It
can squeeze off a couple. What about the so called
kinetic rounds that don't have the chemical aspect to them.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Sure, the kinetic rounds consist of one a solid sixty
eight projectile made of high end polymer like very strong
plastic that is capable of breaking side autoglass from thirty
feet away. So when you get hit with this with
that round, it's going to feel like you've been shot,
and it's extremely painful. And so it really the escalates
(07:32):
the situation using the force less people forced, and in
combination the round could be. Using combination, you could have
kinetic rounds and chemical rounds in your magazine and in
our With our product, the launchers have an effective range
of sixty feet and on a CO two you can
(07:53):
shoot up to twenty rounds off an eight gram CO
two and the gun is or the launcher is as
they're ready, so are We have a proprietary technology that's
called pull Pierce where you can have the launcher loaded
with the CO two inside and they can be stored indefinitely.
So when there's a threat, you pull your weapon, you
(08:16):
pull the trigger. It punctures the CO two and sends
the first round instantaneously, so at the same time and
we have five round magazines, we have seven round magazines,
so that'll gives you that opportunity to have multiple shots
at a safe distance up to sixty feet and you
can address and assess the situation and determine if that
(08:40):
situation requires an escalation of force and use of force.
And most of the time that's not the case, but
if it is the case, then you have to do
what you have to do to protect yourself and your family.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
So the Burner launcher again, which you know it's like
having a glock in your hand, but it's not a
glock in your hand. What are the law because like,
my guns are locked up, and I understand why I've
got kids in the house and everything like that. The laws,
the practicality of safety and everything like that. But I've
always thought, Man, if somebody breaks into my house, I'm
(09:12):
you know, half asleep like you're talking about. I got
to go get the key, then come unlock it, then
low and you know all the stuff, the steps I
gotta take. What are the laws around having this burn
a launcher handy or can I have it in my car?
Can I be out and about with it?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's a great question. The burner launcher is legal in
all fifty states. It doesn't require a background check to
own one or to purchase one. That doesn't require a
permit to own one. It's not classified by the ATF
as a firearm. It's essentially an air launcher in the past.
To ATF is the client of ours and we service
(09:49):
many government agencies and hundreds and hundreds of police departments,
and so you can have it in your car. Again,
we would recommend that you check your local laws just
for to ensure that the product is faith to transport,
But in general we say, is lego mpp S fake,
(10:11):
You can have it in your car. I'm here in
Las Vegas. The car, my vehicle is considered an extension
of my home, so I can have that launcher in
the car. If I were to carry it around town,
i am concealed, I would need to have a concealed
carry permit. And again each city and its local laws
are different. So we just recommend ours to our customers
(10:32):
that check and then confirm and then know what the
usage and bandwidth is with regards to your home, that's
your domain. You could have it anywhere you want. You
have young children, we highly recommend that you treat our
product as a weapon, and it is a weapon, and
so make sure you have all these safety precautions in
(10:53):
place where young children don't have easy access to the
product or to the device and use it accordingly.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I'm glad you mentioned that hundreds of police agencies use this.
That's what sold me and made me a customer. Honestly,
I thought, wow, if they're using this as less than
lethal force, that's a good recommendation. So professionals and FEDS
are using it. Cops and also doctor Jen Stankis, who's
an emergency medicine physician, is a fan of the Berna launcher,
and doctor Jen joins us, now, how are you.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I'm doing great, Thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Well, it's our pleasure. What convinced you that this was
a product for you?
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Well, first I should give you a little bit more background,
former law enforcement, former military times too, including being a
JAG officer and part time military judge, and now as
an emergency physician. I also do a lot of expert
witness work and I've helped you defend people who have
(11:55):
quite frankly you self defense appropriately and still go to jail.
And for me, having been in law enforcement and think
about self defense a lot, constantly reviewing what my options are.
And I learned about this product maybe a couple of
years ago, and I had no idea what it was.
(12:18):
And when one of our neighbors, who's a huge pro
two a guy always has a can field carry with him,
told me that he was going to this, it really
perked my interest and I looked into it. And the
more I've learned, the more of a proponent I am
of it, and now being great friends with Luan and
(12:39):
I do scenario training with it at home. It's just
it's my go to self defense.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Tool.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I would say, so do I understand correctly? And I
think we all did, because you spoke quite plainly you
were in law enforcement, a JAG officer and now you're
an emergency physician.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Well thanks for making us all feel so bad about ourselves. Wow,
what next astronomy we're going on?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Being an astronaut?
Speaker 4 (13:09):
I would love to be an astronautor right now, I
just apply airplane.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
So wow, fantastic. H So there you go, there you go,
and that expert testimony. Oh, that's got to be so
troubling when you see somebody who was in good conscience
trying to do the right things protect themselves and their family,
and all of a sudden their life is upended and
perhaps ruined.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
It's actually quite terrifying to see. And as Luan pointed out,
it really depends on the jurisdiction where you are, from
city to county to state, it really varies. And just
having the feeling safe, I think is one of the
most important things for people in terms of being able
(13:55):
to go about their business and having a tool that
really will protect you in every way legally and physically,
I think is really important.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Doctor Jenstankis Salon fam from Burna b y r NA
dot com. B y r NA dot com. Interesting stuff.
Thanks for the time.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, I could really see this be in the future,
couldn't you. It fills in. I mean, it just it
checks so many boxes.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Oh yeah, yeah. And obviously if you've been following the news,
you know that there's real interest in police not overusing force,
which is great, it's proper in a free society. And
the fact that they're by the hundreds of agencies turning
to this sort of thing. Yeah, it's big.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
It's important.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You know, you don't know about trigger hesitancy until you're
ever in that situation. But I think I would have
no trouble shooting somebody if I thought they were threat
I would hesitate on has this gone far enough that
I'm not gonna end up in jail over That's that
I know. I would have hesitantzy about that.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yes, at what point in this scenario is it justified
right as judged by twelve dopes in some trial?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Maybe right anyway, And the fact that Berna, you know,
I had that conversation with my son the other day,
the whole Uh, rather be judged by twelve than carried
by six? Well, you know, if it comes down to
carried by six, yeah, I would take that choice. But
being judged by twelve would be no walk in the
park either.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
No, no, indeed, better to send a purp to his
knees crying or squealing and running.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Away, right, And you get out of there and call
the police, and you're not gonna, you know, have to
hire a lawyer and defend yourself as a murderer or something.
Oh my god, right, interesting stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Horrible
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