December 20, 2023 • 11 mins
Talking to Jack Armstrong, military analyst Mike Lyons breaks down what what the enemy might be thinking of our lack of our response.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
A run back to Hooty rebels and Yemen launching two
more attacks on commercial ships in the Red Sea, just
as the US announced a naval task force to counter
the threat, the US joining nine countries to escort vessels
passing through the crucial trade route after major companies, including
oil giant BP paused operations, but the Hooi's vowing further
(00:21):
attacks in retaliation for Israel's war in Gaza bottom miners.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
These attacks have to stop. If they need to stop,
they're unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
The United States, our allies, and our partners will do
what we have to do to counter these threats and
to protect these ships. That's Kirby, they're the spokesman, and
I like him. He seems like a good dude. But
the rhetoric of these attacks have to stop. They're unacceptable. Well,
there have been over one hundred now. We're not doing
much to deter them, so you can't say they're unacceptable.
(00:54):
We seem to be accepting it. I mean, by definition,
we seem to be accepted relentless attacks on our troops
and our machinery by Iran and their proxies. And I
don't know how else you look at that welcome to
the Armstrong and Getty Show. We want to check in
with Mike Lyons, who we love talking to about anything
(01:16):
military wise. Maybe you see him on CNN, maybe you
follow him on Twitter at mag Mike Lyons on Twitter.
In fact, they got a tweet that I want to
read to him from yesterday and have him explain more. Mike,
Welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show again.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Hey guy, it's good to be backcause always.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Let's start with the over one hundred times that Iran
or people at the behest of Iran have attacked or
attempted to attack us. I mean, have we pushed back
enough in your eyes?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
No, I don't think so. I think we keep trying
to give this visual deterrence. You know, two carrier groups
in the Mediterranean and the Carnie in the Red Sea.
But we're dealing with an enemy that doesn't care about
that because they know that we're psychologically disarmed. They know
that we will respond in a manner that will likely
cause great damage and destruction. And then the enemy knows
(02:05):
that the rest of the world then will turn against us.
And so we don't really, you know, have the gumption
anymore to stake a high moral ground about. Look, you're
not going to attack us. We're going to protect our
soldiers and our sailors and the like, and we're going
to not care about what the rest of the world thinks.
It's the same problem Israel's having right now. You know,
the rest of the world is really concerned what Israel's doing. Well,
(02:26):
Israel's trying to fight for his existence right now. So
that's you know, kind of the same example.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I hear the dogs of war in the background where
you are.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, I couldn't even get them outther I got
them out.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
No big deal.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So the rhetoric of this must stop. This is unacceptable.
I feel like if you don't push back really, really hard,
you're saying it is acceptable.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And is there any reason to think it's not going
to continue?
Speaker 4 (02:52):
You know, it's so the Secretary of Defense did the
right thing. Put together a coalition of other nations and
of others that are that are going to look to respond.
But we've got to go after the source, not just
you know, on the ground. It's going to mean destroying
a lot of equipment on the ground. We have to
go after what Iran is doing. Is Iran you know,
(03:13):
completely supports the Houthis. I mean, you know, but for
Iran that the Houthis don't don't exist. They and and
and we've allowed the problem just to get worse and
worse over the course of the years. And that's that's
like everything in the world right now. The can gets
kicked down the road until we finally have to take
care of it. So let's hope that this will possibly
take care of it, and we will eventually respond if
(03:35):
they you know, let's say they think an oil tanker
or something and create an environmental disaster. There's there's so
many things, so many really bad possibilities there. I don't
think they'll get to our ships because of our defense
platforms that we have there, but there's a lot of
tragedy that can still take place there. And then of
course the money that's being lost. You see, a lot
of the ships are being derived or ready to the
to the south and in Africa in that regard, and
(03:58):
then all the Egyptians, the Gyptans have to be made.
They're losing about my my son tells me it's a
million dollars to take a ship down and back into
the sost Canal. So they're losing all that money's taking
place there. So let's hope the rest of the world
recognizes that this is a problem and gets on board
with there as well.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, I keep using the example.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
The Wall Street Journal had a story several weeks ago
now about how an attack drone got lodged in the
ceiling of a building and the bomb didn't go off.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
If it had, it would have killed a whole bunch
of US servicemen. So that was just lock that.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
You know, that that didn't happen, So I feel like
you got to respond as if it did.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But you know, we're not well.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
And the kind of attacks that the drones can make
on the ships, they could be swarm attacks. We just
haven't seen that yet. But that's really would be a
tremendous escalation because if you fire, you know, we saw
that ship the other day, the Carney was fired. Some
of my fourteen or fifteen drone shot them out of
the sky. If you sent a hundred or a thousand
at the Carney, that would be a problem for that
(04:55):
ship and one of them would get through, and then
what do we have? And so you know that's well,
for whatever reason, we're just on this luck factor of saying, oh,
you know, right, it hasn't been bad. No one's dead yet,
so that we're just going to continue to go. And
it just just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
To the war between Israel and Hamas I'm looking at
this tweet of yours from yesterday, I'll just read it.
I was thinking, the US and Israel, we're talking past
each other about what the US wanted Israel to do.
From the news conference today, the administration is not putting
a timeline on the operation.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Israel will fight this on their terms, explain.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, So I had thought that the United States from
what they had said, Jake Sullivan and you know, they
were telling this, well, it's kind of wrap this up here,
acting like it's you know, some kind of protests formation
in Portland or something. And and but but after this
last press conference, after the last meeting, the secondary Defense
said there's no timetable for Israel. They're going to do
(05:46):
this whatever they want to do it. So that to
me was good enough to say, well, this is now
going to go on for months. It's not going to
get wrapped up. We're not going to you know, both
of these audiences are talking to their domestic audiences, right
or both of these people are talking to their domestic
audiences where you know, we're trying to Obviously, the political
factor of the Democrats right now, for whatever reason, is
they have to show some kind of support for Hamas.
(06:06):
Don't don't ask me why, but that seems to be
what they're trying to do. And so in Israel's case,
there are some inside of Israel too that that that
are that want, you know, the civilians that not be
as terrorized. I don't know what the term is, because it's,
you know, they're at war again for their own survival.
But once they said that to me, I was good, Okay,
here we go. So this is that they're not going
to be concerned here that in the next month nothing's
(06:28):
going to change. Israel is not stopping. They're also fighting
a two front war. They're fighting a war in the
north where they're clearing Hamas military formations that wage war
against Israel to that to that area they're indirect fire
weapons and the like, and then the one in the
south and the south Gaza Kany units for example, that's
where the headquarters are, that's where a lot of the
(06:48):
leadership were, that's where a lot of them escaped to
when we had that seas fire before, and that's kind
of a different operation. But the bottom line to me
is Israel's not stopping and they're not going to change
your tactics. They have to make this a conventional war.
They have to bring Hama up to the level of
a conventional fight and get them to surrender.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I wonder how much we're saying different things to them
behind closed doors or in phone calls than we are
in public. And that makes me wonder also just kind
of as in a side, like you're a West Point
guy and you've studied all this military strategy and history
and stuff like that, how much do you how much
at West Point do they get into the politics at all?
Or do they because obviously that plays a role in
(07:26):
a war. You might have to do one thing and
say another to keep you know, your domestic audience happy.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
How much do y'all think about that?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
There's no question that at West Point that's the force
that's taught to cadets as they progress in their careers
and get to that certain place. But I mean west
Point trains you kind of the younger officers. It's really
the ones that have been you know, the general officers
that are there and politics has made a much bigger
impact on the military. Unfortunately. I often think about if
you brought back to generals from World War Two and
(07:57):
you told them how we were fighting war today, they
would just like shake their and say, you guys are nuts,
because we'd have this thing over here in six weeks.
We would take the biggest weapons we have and we
would destroy everything we possibly could. We wouldn't care about
the things you guys seem to care about, and we
would get this thing done. And that is the harsh
reality of history, is how they would look at it.
And instead, you know, we're trying to tell Israel to
(08:19):
you know, you have the president United States saying that
Israel's indiscriminately bombing civilians and that's just irresponsible, right, That's
why I was talking about, you know, talking past each other.
I mean, that's irresponsible for the president to say that.
So no question that and the accelerant of social media
and the audience and all those things get through it.
So again from a military perspective, that the Idea app
(08:39):
is trying to use its military as a tool foreign
policy to get the Palestinian leadership to heal and get
them to surrender and they're going to do whatever they
can in that regard.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, we've been talking about.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I mean, you take any country, state, village anywhere in
the world throughout history, if you got attacked the way
Israel got attacked, where they came in and they headed
your babies and raped your grandma's you would if you
could lay waste to that entity right all throughout history,
anywhere in the world. And so now what where are we?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's it's an interesting thing to watch.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
And in the Arab world is not helping the Palestinians,
I mean Egyptian says we've talked about before, and anytime
they open up a barrier, that barriers between them and
Gaza to let humanitarian id and they can't close it
fast enough, all right, so they're not letting any refugees
in the rest of the nations really don't care about it.
They want to you know, brand to the United Nations,
and they want to make a big deal about it.
(09:36):
But this is you know, Israel's not going to settle
for two state solution right now. They're not going to
settle for any of that previous ideas about what's going
on here. And I don't think they care about what
the United States says. You're right behind closed doors. They're
kind of rolling their eyes at us basically telling them
how to fight terrorism, because we really have a great
record from the past twenty years in a rock in
(09:56):
Afghanistan frankly in terms of trying to you know, get
that to work there.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So interesting.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Well, I'm sure we'll be talking about this with you
in the next year, and this is the last time
we'll be talking to you this year. In twenty three.
Where is the war in Ukraine currently? Where do you
think it's headed for twenty four?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah, that's a stalemate right now, with both sides still
not able to take their strategic objectives and align them
with their operational capabilities. And I don't and if the
United States decides not to support Ukraine, then eventually it
could be in years at this point, but eventually they
will lose. I think that you know, Russia is building
(10:38):
more capacity every day, learning doing things that are moving
in the direction that they're doing better. So you know,
we've got to get off the dime here, get the
rest of the world to recognize that. And then if
you ship the world as tinderbox, because I think you
have what's going on in the Pacific still is something
that could explode in twenty twenty four, given US leadership,
(10:58):
where it's going to be, how it's going to change
next year for US. So I think we're in for
a lot of things to go on at twenty twenty four,
both in the Middle East, in Europe, and then of
course in the Pacific. It's going to be a really
challenging year.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Wow, that's a heck of a thing for you to
end on what we I was going to say, look
forward to talking to you. Unfortunately, when we're talking to you,
it's oftentimes a bad or challenging situation. But we will
talk to you in twenty four. Helpe, you have a
great Christmas in the holiday season.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Thanks Mary, Christmas everybody soon. Thanks for having me Armstrong
and Getty.
A run back to Hooty rebels and Yemen launching two
more attacks on commercial ships in the Red Sea, just
as the US announced a naval task force to counter
the threat, the US joining nine countries to escort vessels
passing through the crucial trade route after major companies, including
oil giant BP paused operations, but the Hooi's vowing further
(00:21):
attacks in retaliation for Israel's war in Gaza bottom miners.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
These attacks have to stop. If they need to stop,
they're unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
The United States, our allies, and our partners will do
what we have to do to counter these threats and
to protect these ships. That's Kirby, they're the spokesman, and
I like him. He seems like a good dude. But
the rhetoric of these attacks have to stop. They're unacceptable. Well,
there have been over one hundred now. We're not doing
much to deter them, so you can't say they're unacceptable.
(00:54):
We seem to be accepting it. I mean, by definition,
we seem to be accepted relentless attacks on our troops
and our machinery by Iran and their proxies. And I
don't know how else you look at that welcome to
the Armstrong and Getty Show. We want to check in
with Mike Lyons, who we love talking to about anything
(01:16):
military wise. Maybe you see him on CNN, maybe you
follow him on Twitter at mag Mike Lyons on Twitter.
In fact, they got a tweet that I want to
read to him from yesterday and have him explain more. Mike,
Welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show again.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Hey guy, it's good to be backcause always.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Let's start with the over one hundred times that Iran
or people at the behest of Iran have attacked or
attempted to attack us. I mean, have we pushed back
enough in your eyes?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
No, I don't think so. I think we keep trying
to give this visual deterrence. You know, two carrier groups
in the Mediterranean and the Carnie in the Red Sea.
But we're dealing with an enemy that doesn't care about
that because they know that we're psychologically disarmed. They know
that we will respond in a manner that will likely
cause great damage and destruction. And then the enemy knows
(02:05):
that the rest of the world then will turn against us.
And so we don't really, you know, have the gumption
anymore to stake a high moral ground about. Look, you're
not going to attack us. We're going to protect our
soldiers and our sailors and the like, and we're going
to not care about what the rest of the world thinks.
It's the same problem Israel's having right now. You know,
the rest of the world is really concerned what Israel's doing. Well,
(02:26):
Israel's trying to fight for his existence right now. So
that's you know, kind of the same example.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I hear the dogs of war in the background where
you are.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yeah, yeah, I couldn't even get them outther I got
them out.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
No big deal.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
So the rhetoric of this must stop. This is unacceptable.
I feel like if you don't push back really, really hard,
you're saying it is acceptable.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And is there any reason to think it's not going
to continue?
Speaker 4 (02:52):
You know, it's so the Secretary of Defense did the
right thing. Put together a coalition of other nations and
of others that are that are going to look to respond.
But we've got to go after the source, not just
you know, on the ground. It's going to mean destroying
a lot of equipment on the ground. We have to
go after what Iran is doing. Is Iran you know,
(03:13):
completely supports the Houthis. I mean, you know, but for
Iran that the Houthis don't don't exist. They and and
and we've allowed the problem just to get worse and
worse over the course of the years. And that's that's
like everything in the world right now. The can gets
kicked down the road until we finally have to take
care of it. So let's hope that this will possibly
take care of it, and we will eventually respond if
(03:35):
they you know, let's say they think an oil tanker
or something and create an environmental disaster. There's there's so
many things, so many really bad possibilities there. I don't
think they'll get to our ships because of our defense
platforms that we have there, but there's a lot of
tragedy that can still take place there. And then of
course the money that's being lost. You see, a lot
of the ships are being derived or ready to the
to the south and in Africa in that regard, and
(03:58):
then all the Egyptians, the Gyptans have to be made.
They're losing about my my son tells me it's a
million dollars to take a ship down and back into
the sost Canal. So they're losing all that money's taking
place there. So let's hope the rest of the world
recognizes that this is a problem and gets on board
with there as well.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, I keep using the example.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
The Wall Street Journal had a story several weeks ago
now about how an attack drone got lodged in the
ceiling of a building and the bomb didn't go off.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
If it had, it would have killed a whole bunch
of US servicemen. So that was just lock that.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
You know, that that didn't happen, So I feel like
you got to respond as if it did.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But you know, we're not well.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
And the kind of attacks that the drones can make
on the ships, they could be swarm attacks. We just
haven't seen that yet. But that's really would be a
tremendous escalation because if you fire, you know, we saw
that ship the other day, the Carney was fired. Some
of my fourteen or fifteen drone shot them out of
the sky. If you sent a hundred or a thousand
at the Carney, that would be a problem for that
(04:55):
ship and one of them would get through, and then
what do we have? And so you know that's well,
for whatever reason, we're just on this luck factor of saying, oh,
you know, right, it hasn't been bad. No one's dead yet,
so that we're just going to continue to go. And
it just just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
To the war between Israel and Hamas I'm looking at
this tweet of yours from yesterday, I'll just read it.
I was thinking, the US and Israel, we're talking past
each other about what the US wanted Israel to do.
From the news conference today, the administration is not putting
a timeline on the operation.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Israel will fight this on their terms, explain.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, So I had thought that the United States from
what they had said, Jake Sullivan and you know, they
were telling this, well, it's kind of wrap this up here,
acting like it's you know, some kind of protests formation
in Portland or something. And and but but after this
last press conference, after the last meeting, the secondary Defense
said there's no timetable for Israel. They're going to do
(05:46):
this whatever they want to do it. So that to
me was good enough to say, well, this is now
going to go on for months. It's not going to
get wrapped up. We're not going to you know, both
of these audiences are talking to their domestic audiences, right
or both of these people are talking to their domestic
audiences where you know, we're trying to Obviously, the political
factor of the Democrats right now, for whatever reason, is
they have to show some kind of support for Hamas.
(06:06):
Don't don't ask me why, but that seems to be
what they're trying to do. And so in Israel's case,
there are some inside of Israel too that that that
are that want, you know, the civilians that not be
as terrorized. I don't know what the term is, because it's,
you know, they're at war again for their own survival.
But once they said that to me, I was good, Okay,
here we go. So this is that they're not going
to be concerned here that in the next month nothing's
(06:28):
going to change. Israel is not stopping. They're also fighting
a two front war. They're fighting a war in the
north where they're clearing Hamas military formations that wage war
against Israel to that to that area they're indirect fire
weapons and the like, and then the one in the
south and the south Gaza Kany units for example, that's
where the headquarters are, that's where a lot of the
(06:48):
leadership were, that's where a lot of them escaped to
when we had that seas fire before, and that's kind
of a different operation. But the bottom line to me
is Israel's not stopping and they're not going to change
your tactics. They have to make this a conventional war.
They have to bring Hama up to the level of
a conventional fight and get them to surrender.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I wonder how much we're saying different things to them
behind closed doors or in phone calls than we are
in public. And that makes me wonder also just kind
of as in a side, like you're a West Point
guy and you've studied all this military strategy and history
and stuff like that, how much do you how much
at West Point do they get into the politics at all?
Or do they because obviously that plays a role in
(07:26):
a war. You might have to do one thing and
say another to keep you know, your domestic audience happy.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
How much do y'all think about that?
Speaker 4 (07:35):
There's no question that at West Point that's the force
that's taught to cadets as they progress in their careers
and get to that certain place. But I mean west
Point trains you kind of the younger officers. It's really
the ones that have been you know, the general officers
that are there and politics has made a much bigger
impact on the military. Unfortunately. I often think about if
you brought back to generals from World War Two and
(07:57):
you told them how we were fighting war today, they
would just like shake their and say, you guys are nuts,
because we'd have this thing over here in six weeks.
We would take the biggest weapons we have and we
would destroy everything we possibly could. We wouldn't care about
the things you guys seem to care about, and we
would get this thing done. And that is the harsh
reality of history, is how they would look at it.
And instead, you know, we're trying to tell Israel to
(08:19):
you know, you have the president United States saying that
Israel's indiscriminately bombing civilians and that's just irresponsible, right, That's
why I was talking about, you know, talking past each other.
I mean, that's irresponsible for the president to say that.
So no question that and the accelerant of social media
and the audience and all those things get through it.
So again from a military perspective, that the Idea app
(08:39):
is trying to use its military as a tool foreign
policy to get the Palestinian leadership to heal and get
them to surrender and they're going to do whatever they
can in that regard.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, we've been talking about.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I mean, you take any country, state, village anywhere in
the world throughout history, if you got attacked the way
Israel got attacked, where they came in and they headed
your babies and raped your grandma's you would if you
could lay waste to that entity right all throughout history,
anywhere in the world. And so now what where are we?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's it's an interesting thing to watch.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
And in the Arab world is not helping the Palestinians,
I mean Egyptian says we've talked about before, and anytime
they open up a barrier, that barriers between them and
Gaza to let humanitarian id and they can't close it
fast enough, all right, so they're not letting any refugees
in the rest of the nations really don't care about it.
They want to you know, brand to the United Nations,
and they want to make a big deal about it.
(09:36):
But this is you know, Israel's not going to settle
for two state solution right now. They're not going to
settle for any of that previous ideas about what's going
on here. And I don't think they care about what
the United States says. You're right behind closed doors. They're
kind of rolling their eyes at us basically telling them
how to fight terrorism, because we really have a great
record from the past twenty years in a rock in
(09:56):
Afghanistan frankly in terms of trying to you know, get
that to work there.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So interesting.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Well, I'm sure we'll be talking about this with you
in the next year, and this is the last time
we'll be talking to you this year. In twenty three.
Where is the war in Ukraine currently? Where do you
think it's headed for twenty four?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah, that's a stalemate right now, with both sides still
not able to take their strategic objectives and align them
with their operational capabilities. And I don't and if the
United States decides not to support Ukraine, then eventually it
could be in years at this point, but eventually they
will lose. I think that you know, Russia is building
(10:38):
more capacity every day, learning doing things that are moving
in the direction that they're doing better. So you know,
we've got to get off the dime here, get the
rest of the world to recognize that. And then if
you ship the world as tinderbox, because I think you
have what's going on in the Pacific still is something
that could explode in twenty twenty four, given US leadership,
(10:58):
where it's going to be, how it's going to change
next year for US. So I think we're in for
a lot of things to go on at twenty twenty four,
both in the Middle East, in Europe, and then of
course in the Pacific. It's going to be a really
challenging year.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Wow, that's a heck of a thing for you to
end on what we I was going to say, look
forward to talking to you. Unfortunately, when we're talking to you,
it's oftentimes a bad or challenging situation. But we will
talk to you in twenty four. Helpe, you have a
great Christmas in the holiday season.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Thanks Mary, Christmas everybody soon. Thanks for having me Armstrong
and Getty.
Hosts And Creators
Joe Getty
Jack Armstrong
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!