April 9, 2024 • 14 mins
The relationship between doctors, patients and hospitals is struggling. The government involvement in our healthcare system is becoming more and more problematic.
Craig Gottwals, aka "Craig the Healthcare Guru", talks about that and more in a new episode of A&G's Extra Large Podcast.
Listen to the Armstrong & Getty Extra Large Podcasts featuring Craig below...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So here's something we can all relate to. I Joe Geddy,
came across a handful of articles I read with interest
lately with headlines like from the New York Times health insures,
lucrative alliance that drives up patients' bills, Wall Street Journals.
Seeing a doctor doesn't have to be so frustrating Wall
Street Journal Again, hidden hospital fees cost patients hundreds of dollars.
(00:20):
And it all boils down to it seems like the
patient doctor patient hospital relationship has gotten more screwed up,
more complicated, and less satisfying for all concerned, except perhaps
for players behind the scenes. And we thought we would
invite to Craig Gottwaldtz on the air. Craig the healthcare
GURUH has actually recently made a professional change to the
(00:41):
Mahoney Group for reasons that I think are at least
somewhat related to those headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Craig, how are you, sir? I am fantastic. How are you, gentlemen?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm so terrific. I'm another failure of American healthcare. Yes, yes, so, Craig,
would you agree that? Or what do you take away
from those headlines combined with what you observe yourself dealing
with the health.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
And benefits and that srhythm well.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
First and foremost kudos to the mainstream media for digging
up there, rolling up their sleeves and digging in and
trying to get to the bottom of the issue, because
they're doing a pretty decent job at this point. The
short answer is, I know this is going to shock you, gentlemen,
coming from a freedom loving, libertarian minded soul like yourselves,
that seventy five years of a government health care complex
(01:32):
and enormous corporations in bed with the federal government make
for a bureaucracy that leaves the patient last. And it's
just it's boiling to a head, as we've seen, and
it's just it's something that can't be it can't be
understated how brutal this is, and how many middlemen are
in the pie, making gobs of money and trying to
(01:55):
do what's best for their bottom line or their shareholder's
bottom line, and not best for the the customer, which
in this case is the patient.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Boiling to a head is the worst phrase i've her today.
Let's try to stay away from that. Yeah, so you know,
festering is better. I've said so many times that the
idea that big, if we just make a big, huge
government that'll stand up for the little guy as opposed
to the lobbyists to go to the seat of the
federal government and write them enormous checks. I mean, this
(02:24):
is an example of it. I remember Stephen Brill in
his great book Bitter Pill, said that the government is
involved where it shouldn't be, and not involved where it
should be.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, and honestly not involved where it should be. I'd
have to sit down with Stephen for a bit and
have him tell me where should the government be more
involved in healthcare? I mean, you know, arguably maybe in
a safety net program, but even that is so hard
to accept because when Medicaid, which is our it's our
product for the low income folks in America. When that
(02:58):
first came into play in the late sixties, it was
designed to cover the bottom two percent of earners in
the United States. It now covers one third, and something
like thirty five to forty percent of all babies are
born onto Medicaid. So if you let the government in anywhere,
you get this creep a third.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And the government compensation of doctors and hospitals is so
brutally low. That perverts the system too.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, that's a huge problem. Right.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
There's actually a cartel like a game going on here
behind the scenes, because what's happening is the government is
artificially keeping payments incredibly low, particularly in Medicaid, not so
bad in Medicare, but they keep it incredibly low, and
then with a wink and a nod, they say to
the hospitals, the large hospital chains, go ahead and charge three, four,
(03:48):
five hundred percent of what Medicare would pay when you
bill the four national insurance companies, and then let employers
go ahead and pay those rates. And that way we'll
have enough cash coming into the system by and large
that everybody you'll be able to be just fine. And we,
the politicians that are behind this scheme, ultimately will look
good because we can point to Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement
(04:11):
rates and say, see how low we negotiate them, See
how good we're doing. We're doing right by the little guy.
We need national health care. That's exactly the scam, Joe.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So it's a gigantic hidden tax on people who have
their own insurance. It just occurred to me exactly that,
and I go ahead, Jack, Sorry, there are all these
forces that want to push toward government healthcare, but there
are are there any forces pushing against that? Are there
(04:41):
any forces pushing from the other side other than maybe
individual patients?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, you know, there increasingly is larger employers. Employers will
at least say three hundred employees or more are now learning.
There's a growing trend you don't have to play this game.
You can opt out entirely. I always say, if you
recognize the logo on your insurance card, you are their
profit and you're being farmed. But what employers can do
(05:07):
now and again this has grown from one percent of
employers four years ago to now four percent of employers
are doing this is they're saying enough, We're not even
going to rent one of these large ppo networks. We're
going to have direct contracts with hospitals and providers, and
we're going to negotiate better deals based upon reasonable reimbursements.
We're not going to play in the Ponzi scheme anymore.
(05:29):
So it's unbelievable. It's been a renaissance in my career
Jack and Joe, unlike I ever thought was possible. And
I think there's a serious chance this could save healthcare
from sliding into the oblivion of where people just get
so fed up they say, let the government do it all.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
We're talking to Craig Gottwaals, Craig the healthcare guru. That's
going to put the squeeze on the politicians though, because
they've been getting away with giving a dollar's worth of
medical care for a dime and then sticking the consumers
with the rest of the bill. If employers are successful
in those negotiations, won't that increase the pressure on them?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yes, it will, And it's been actually kind of fascinating
to watch because you have this inherent conflict going on
at the political level. Politicians like to talk about how,
for example, transparency is good, we need more transparency healthcare
is bad, and a lot of these people in Congress
don't really understand what's going on in the medical system.
So they have passed legislation increasing the transparency that we're
(06:30):
now having we have access to to pay these claims,
which has been phenomenal for those of us in the
free market healthcare space because we can latch onto those
numbers and use them to negotiate these better deals. So
now you're getting this friction internally where those who really
understand and are truly cynical at the political level don't
want the transparency. But the cat's kind of out of
(06:52):
the bag because Trump pushed this stuff into legislation and
so far, excuse me, the Biden. So maybe that wasn't
such a Freudian slip. The other the Biden Obama administration
has embraced it and continue this tendency. So I don't
know that they're going to be able to put the
hidden costs back in. I think this is going to
get out, and I think freedom is going to win,
(07:14):
or at least has the best chance I've seen it
have since the passage of Obamacare.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Guys, that's the first time we've talked to you or
you've been optimistic ever.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I think, yeah, well, a lot of it has to
do with a career change that I made as well.
So okay, right, So I take you doing this from
a free market. From a free market standpoint, I'm not.
I'm not burdened by banks and Wall Street and private
equity anymore. I truly am with a small, nimble, privately
held group that's willing to fight this fight.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just I'm I got to believe if
social security is the third rail of American politics, that
the big healthcare plans are something close to that, and
it's so easy to demagog them. I guess as a voter,
as a as a talk show host posts. So pushing
for transparency is one thing that's that we can do
(08:05):
even if we don't fully understand all the issues involved.
Would you say, that's like job number one? That is
job number one.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And one of the other things that you guys have
seen and I've heard you talk about is the whole
idea of concierge care where you pay a monthly fee
and you go and get you get a personal relationship
with that doctor. Well, that's something we're embracing in the
Freedom community where we're saying, hey, let's build that into
the health plan. Let's not even have one of those big,
those big four national carriers out there. Instead, let's direct
(08:36):
contract with those concierge providers. Let's pay the fee for
the employees. We call it direct primary care when we
do it at the employer level. And then let's use
a fair reimbursement system for everything that goes beyond that
primary care system. When we do that, we're seeing patients
and doctors a hell of a lot happier, with.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
The results interesting, and the expenses aren't out of hand.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Well, see the reason the expenses get out of hand
when you do it on your own, like you've done
in the past, Joe, I know, is you're paying an
insured product up above, and then you're also paying for
this concierge medicine. So you're kind of double paying for
what you're getting. But when we can do this at
the employer level, we don't. We can set up the
insurance such that it doesn't even kick in until something
(09:22):
goes beyond what your concierge doctor can do. So no,
we see this reducing prices anywhere from eighteen to forty
percent when we do it saying here's a better statistic
you'll get you you'll like you guys, your typical doctor
in the system. If so, if you have one of
those big four logos on your card, that doctor is
typically responsible for twenty five hundred to five thousand patients
(09:45):
per year. That's what their primary care bailiwick is that
they would have to be, you know, to potentially see
in a given year when we do direct primary care
concierge models. Those doctors are limited to six hundred patients
in a given year, and they end up making more
money because we're cutting out all of the bloated bureaucracy
that harms the patient.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So you've been saying for years you thought we were
a decade or whatever away from full government takeover of
our healthcare.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
That was just the direction was going. You no longer
believe that now. I still believe that's the impetus.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I mean, remember, what I'm doing has grown from one
percent of the market to four percent. Until this grows
to fifteen or twenty percent, I think the overwhelming momentum
here is toward a single payer Medicare type system, probably
still by twenty thirty.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Like we've seen.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Craig Gotwalls, Craig the healthcare guru, attorney law benefit consultant
with the Mahony Group, and Craig, we've both come across, Well,
I came across an article you've lived that private equity
is buying up lots and lots of the healthcare world.
What would be your answer to, Well, first of all,
what's happening? And secondly, what would be your answer to
somebody who would say well, that's the private that's the.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Market at work. That's the free market.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, you know, and excuse me, pardon me that I
even used to believe that at one point as a
good free market loving libertarian. Here's the thing. Somewhere about
the late seventies into the eighties, the focus of American
business really changed dramatically. And this started, I think with
all of our outsourcing to China, where the number one
(11:22):
customer shifted to become the shareholder. Whereas if you looked
at American business in American productivity prior to say nineteen eighty,
the number one customer was the purchaser of the product.
And we've undergone this shift. And I actually don't think
this is a truly capitalistic free market shift. I think
it's a I think it's a symptom of government involvement
(11:45):
in the large corporations because what has happened now is
private equity buys up everything. And what we're seeing in
healthcare is private equity buying up absolutely every facet of
the healthcare chain. Remember, health care is the number one
employer in the United States, it's the number one lobby
in the United States, and it's roughly one fifth of
(12:07):
our economy. So private equity has come in and bought brokerages.
I mean, heck, I used to work at the fifth
largest insurance brokerage in the United States. Private equity just
gobbled it up fifteen billion dollars. And what do they do.
They come in on a two to five year sales cycle.
They cut everything they can out of it, all the
extra services, all of the stuff that made it a
(12:29):
really good experience for the customer gets Pilford because the
whole focus is on a two to five year sales cycle,
where we're going to just wretch everything we can out
of this thing and then flip it and then buy
the next thing. We're not just seeing that with brokerages.
We're seeing that with insurance companies, and we're seeing that
with the large medical groups, where again, the number one
(12:49):
customer has become that disconnected person on Wall Street as
opposed to the person you're supposed to be serving with
the good you produce.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Well, I think we've seen that in a lot of
different industry. Is that very thing you just described, I
don't know what you do about it, and you know,
a free market society, any thoughts.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, it's it's it's well, it's a tough quandary, right.
I actually just read and I'm trying to remember where
it was. I'll get the link to you when I
find it. I just read something that said, you know,
this is something that perhaps perhaps Milton Friedman had wrong,
because Milton Friedman was a big proponent for making the stockholder,
the shareholder the number one goal of the of American business,
(13:30):
and that it really is not the way this country
was founded, it's not the way we operated up until
the seventies. So there has to be some sort of
a rejuvenating impetus of pushing pushing that focus back on
the customer, the person to whom you're serving, right.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I think it probably has something to do with the shifting,
some would say eroding morality of the country, in which
a company that was seen as abusing its customers would
be roundly criticized from both high and low instantly till
they mended their ways. You're making an unsafe product, you're
not having good medical results, that sort of thing. I
(14:07):
just it's like we always say, it's tough to have
a government showing fiscal restraint for a people that don't
show fiscal restraint in their own lives, but we may
need to leave it there as we are out of time.
Craig Gottwalls, the healthcare guru, always fasting, Craig, how can
people reach you if they have follow up questions?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Gotwalls dot substack dot com is probably the easiest way
to get me, and that leaks up to all my
other stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Okay, if you didn't catch that, drop this an email.
We'll send you the link. Armstrong and Getty
So here's something we can all relate to. I Joe Geddy,
came across a handful of articles I read with interest
lately with headlines like from the New York Times health insures,
lucrative alliance that drives up patients' bills, Wall Street Journals.
Seeing a doctor doesn't have to be so frustrating Wall
Street Journal Again, hidden hospital fees cost patients hundreds of dollars.
(00:20):
And it all boils down to it seems like the
patient doctor patient hospital relationship has gotten more screwed up,
more complicated, and less satisfying for all concerned, except perhaps
for players behind the scenes. And we thought we would
invite to Craig Gottwaldtz on the air. Craig the healthcare
GURUH has actually recently made a professional change to the
(00:41):
Mahoney Group for reasons that I think are at least
somewhat related to those headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Craig, how are you, sir? I am fantastic. How are you, gentlemen?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm so terrific. I'm another failure of American healthcare. Yes, yes, so, Craig,
would you agree that? Or what do you take away
from those headlines combined with what you observe yourself dealing
with the health.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
And benefits and that srhythm well.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
First and foremost kudos to the mainstream media for digging
up there, rolling up their sleeves and digging in and
trying to get to the bottom of the issue, because
they're doing a pretty decent job at this point. The
short answer is, I know this is going to shock you, gentlemen,
coming from a freedom loving, libertarian minded soul like yourselves,
that seventy five years of a government health care complex
(01:32):
and enormous corporations in bed with the federal government make
for a bureaucracy that leaves the patient last. And it's
just it's boiling to a head, as we've seen, and
it's just it's something that can't be it can't be
understated how brutal this is, and how many middlemen are
in the pie, making gobs of money and trying to
(01:55):
do what's best for their bottom line or their shareholder's
bottom line, and not best for the the customer, which
in this case is the patient.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Boiling to a head is the worst phrase i've her today.
Let's try to stay away from that. Yeah, so you know,
festering is better. I've said so many times that the
idea that big, if we just make a big, huge
government that'll stand up for the little guy as opposed
to the lobbyists to go to the seat of the
federal government and write them enormous checks. I mean, this
(02:24):
is an example of it. I remember Stephen Brill in
his great book Bitter Pill, said that the government is
involved where it shouldn't be, and not involved where it
should be.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, and honestly not involved where it should be. I'd
have to sit down with Stephen for a bit and
have him tell me where should the government be more
involved in healthcare? I mean, you know, arguably maybe in
a safety net program, but even that is so hard
to accept because when Medicaid, which is our it's our
product for the low income folks in America. When that
(02:58):
first came into play in the late sixties, it was
designed to cover the bottom two percent of earners in
the United States. It now covers one third, and something
like thirty five to forty percent of all babies are
born onto Medicaid. So if you let the government in anywhere,
you get this creep a third.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And the government compensation of doctors and hospitals is so
brutally low. That perverts the system too.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, that's a huge problem. Right.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
There's actually a cartel like a game going on here
behind the scenes, because what's happening is the government is
artificially keeping payments incredibly low, particularly in Medicaid, not so
bad in Medicare, but they keep it incredibly low, and
then with a wink and a nod, they say to
the hospitals, the large hospital chains, go ahead and charge three, four,
(03:48):
five hundred percent of what Medicare would pay when you
bill the four national insurance companies, and then let employers
go ahead and pay those rates. And that way we'll
have enough cash coming into the system by and large
that everybody you'll be able to be just fine. And we,
the politicians that are behind this scheme, ultimately will look
good because we can point to Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement
(04:11):
rates and say, see how low we negotiate them, See
how good we're doing. We're doing right by the little guy.
We need national health care. That's exactly the scam, Joe.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So it's a gigantic hidden tax on people who have
their own insurance. It just occurred to me exactly that,
and I go ahead, Jack, Sorry, there are all these
forces that want to push toward government healthcare, but there
are are there any forces pushing against that? Are there
(04:41):
any forces pushing from the other side other than maybe
individual patients?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, you know, there increasingly is larger employers. Employers will
at least say three hundred employees or more are now learning.
There's a growing trend you don't have to play this game.
You can opt out entirely. I always say, if you
recognize the logo on your insurance card, you are their
profit and you're being farmed. But what employers can do
(05:07):
now and again this has grown from one percent of
employers four years ago to now four percent of employers
are doing this is they're saying enough, We're not even
going to rent one of these large ppo networks. We're
going to have direct contracts with hospitals and providers, and
we're going to negotiate better deals based upon reasonable reimbursements.
We're not going to play in the Ponzi scheme anymore.
(05:29):
So it's unbelievable. It's been a renaissance in my career
Jack and Joe, unlike I ever thought was possible. And
I think there's a serious chance this could save healthcare
from sliding into the oblivion of where people just get
so fed up they say, let the government do it all.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
We're talking to Craig Gottwaals, Craig the healthcare guru. That's
going to put the squeeze on the politicians though, because
they've been getting away with giving a dollar's worth of
medical care for a dime and then sticking the consumers
with the rest of the bill. If employers are successful
in those negotiations, won't that increase the pressure on them?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yes, it will, And it's been actually kind of fascinating
to watch because you have this inherent conflict going on
at the political level. Politicians like to talk about how,
for example, transparency is good, we need more transparency healthcare
is bad, and a lot of these people in Congress
don't really understand what's going on in the medical system.
So they have passed legislation increasing the transparency that we're
(06:30):
now having we have access to to pay these claims,
which has been phenomenal for those of us in the
free market healthcare space because we can latch onto those
numbers and use them to negotiate these better deals. So
now you're getting this friction internally where those who really
understand and are truly cynical at the political level don't
want the transparency. But the cat's kind of out of
(06:52):
the bag because Trump pushed this stuff into legislation and
so far, excuse me, the Biden. So maybe that wasn't
such a Freudian slip. The other the Biden Obama administration
has embraced it and continue this tendency. So I don't
know that they're going to be able to put the
hidden costs back in. I think this is going to
get out, and I think freedom is going to win,
(07:14):
or at least has the best chance I've seen it
have since the passage of Obamacare.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Guys, that's the first time we've talked to you or
you've been optimistic ever.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I think, yeah, well, a lot of it has to
do with a career change that I made as well.
So okay, right, So I take you doing this from
a free market. From a free market standpoint, I'm not.
I'm not burdened by banks and Wall Street and private
equity anymore. I truly am with a small, nimble, privately
held group that's willing to fight this fight.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just I'm I got to believe if
social security is the third rail of American politics, that
the big healthcare plans are something close to that, and
it's so easy to demagog them. I guess as a voter,
as a as a talk show host posts. So pushing
for transparency is one thing that's that we can do
(08:05):
even if we don't fully understand all the issues involved.
Would you say, that's like job number one? That is
job number one.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And one of the other things that you guys have
seen and I've heard you talk about is the whole
idea of concierge care where you pay a monthly fee
and you go and get you get a personal relationship
with that doctor. Well, that's something we're embracing in the
Freedom community where we're saying, hey, let's build that into
the health plan. Let's not even have one of those big,
those big four national carriers out there. Instead, let's direct
(08:36):
contract with those concierge providers. Let's pay the fee for
the employees. We call it direct primary care when we
do it at the employer level. And then let's use
a fair reimbursement system for everything that goes beyond that
primary care system. When we do that, we're seeing patients
and doctors a hell of a lot happier, with.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
The results interesting, and the expenses aren't out of hand.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Well, see the reason the expenses get out of hand
when you do it on your own, like you've done
in the past, Joe, I know, is you're paying an
insured product up above, and then you're also paying for
this concierge medicine. So you're kind of double paying for
what you're getting. But when we can do this at
the employer level, we don't. We can set up the
insurance such that it doesn't even kick in until something
(09:22):
goes beyond what your concierge doctor can do. So no,
we see this reducing prices anywhere from eighteen to forty
percent when we do it saying here's a better statistic
you'll get you you'll like you guys, your typical doctor
in the system. If so, if you have one of
those big four logos on your card, that doctor is
typically responsible for twenty five hundred to five thousand patients
(09:45):
per year. That's what their primary care bailiwick is that
they would have to be, you know, to potentially see
in a given year when we do direct primary care
concierge models. Those doctors are limited to six hundred patients
in a given year, and they end up making more
money because we're cutting out all of the bloated bureaucracy
that harms the patient.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So you've been saying for years you thought we were
a decade or whatever away from full government takeover of
our healthcare.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
That was just the direction was going. You no longer
believe that now. I still believe that's the impetus.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I mean, remember, what I'm doing has grown from one
percent of the market to four percent. Until this grows
to fifteen or twenty percent, I think the overwhelming momentum
here is toward a single payer Medicare type system, probably
still by twenty thirty.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Like we've seen.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Craig Gotwalls, Craig the healthcare guru, attorney law benefit consultant
with the Mahony Group, and Craig, we've both come across, Well,
I came across an article you've lived that private equity
is buying up lots and lots of the healthcare world.
What would be your answer to, Well, first of all,
what's happening? And secondly, what would be your answer to
somebody who would say well, that's the private that's the.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Market at work. That's the free market.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, you know, and excuse me, pardon me that I
even used to believe that at one point as a
good free market loving libertarian. Here's the thing. Somewhere about
the late seventies into the eighties, the focus of American
business really changed dramatically. And this started, I think with
all of our outsourcing to China, where the number one
(11:22):
customer shifted to become the shareholder. Whereas if you looked
at American business in American productivity prior to say nineteen eighty,
the number one customer was the purchaser of the product.
And we've undergone this shift. And I actually don't think
this is a truly capitalistic free market shift. I think
it's a I think it's a symptom of government involvement
(11:45):
in the large corporations because what has happened now is
private equity buys up everything. And what we're seeing in
healthcare is private equity buying up absolutely every facet of
the healthcare chain. Remember, health care is the number one
employer in the United States, it's the number one lobby
in the United States, and it's roughly one fifth of
(12:07):
our economy. So private equity has come in and bought brokerages.
I mean, heck, I used to work at the fifth
largest insurance brokerage in the United States. Private equity just
gobbled it up fifteen billion dollars. And what do they do.
They come in on a two to five year sales cycle.
They cut everything they can out of it, all the
extra services, all of the stuff that made it a
(12:29):
really good experience for the customer gets Pilford because the
whole focus is on a two to five year sales cycle,
where we're going to just wretch everything we can out
of this thing and then flip it and then buy
the next thing. We're not just seeing that with brokerages.
We're seeing that with insurance companies, and we're seeing that
with the large medical groups, where again, the number one
(12:49):
customer has become that disconnected person on Wall Street as
opposed to the person you're supposed to be serving with
the good you produce.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Well, I think we've seen that in a lot of
different industry. Is that very thing you just described, I
don't know what you do about it, and you know,
a free market society, any thoughts.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, it's it's it's well, it's a tough quandary, right.
I actually just read and I'm trying to remember where
it was. I'll get the link to you when I
find it. I just read something that said, you know,
this is something that perhaps perhaps Milton Friedman had wrong,
because Milton Friedman was a big proponent for making the stockholder,
the shareholder the number one goal of the of American business,
(13:30):
and that it really is not the way this country
was founded, it's not the way we operated up until
the seventies. So there has to be some sort of
a rejuvenating impetus of pushing pushing that focus back on
the customer, the person to whom you're serving, right.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I think it probably has something to do with the shifting,
some would say eroding morality of the country, in which
a company that was seen as abusing its customers would
be roundly criticized from both high and low instantly till
they mended their ways. You're making an unsafe product, you're
not having good medical results, that sort of thing. I
(14:07):
just it's like we always say, it's tough to have
a government showing fiscal restraint for a people that don't
show fiscal restraint in their own lives, but we may
need to leave it there as we are out of time.
Craig Gottwalls, the healthcare guru, always fasting, Craig, how can
people reach you if they have follow up questions?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Gotwalls dot substack dot com is probably the easiest way
to get me, and that leaks up to all my
other stuff.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Okay, if you didn't catch that, drop this an email.
We'll send you the link. Armstrong and Getty
Hosts And Creators
Joe Getty
Jack Armstrong
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