December 9, 2024 • 35 mins
Andy McCarthy, Fox News legal analyst and National Review contributor, joins George Brauchler (filling in for Dan) to discuss both the Daniel Penny acquittal and arrest of Luigi Mangione, 'person of interest' in the assassination of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania.
ANDREW MCCARTHY: Prosecutor, judge make mockery of justice in trial of subway hero Daniel Penny | Fox News
ANDREW MCCARTHY: Prosecutor, judge make mockery of justice in trial of subway hero Daniel Penny | Fox News
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Dan Caplis and welcome to today's online podcast
edition of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to
give us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,
and to subscribe, download, and listen to the show every
single day on your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey, welcome to The Dan Caplis Show.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
It's not me Dan, it's me George Brockler, also a
two time buff undergrad and law school thrilled to be
sitting in for Dan. He's actually doing what lawyers do,
at least the good ones, and that is go to trial.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Lots of news going on today. I am honored.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I have heard this guy interviewed on Dan's show multiple times.
I am thrilled to be able to talk to another
former prosecutor of such great repute, and that is Andy
McCarthy of National Review and a Fox News contributor, former
federal guy out of the Southern District of New York.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sir sir, thanks for joining.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Us, George. It's my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I want to get to.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
The biggest news of the last twenty four hours, and
you're a guy from the Bronx, so you'll appreciate this.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Juan Soto, what happened there.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Well, you know, I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously,
I'm thrilled that the Mets got such a good player,
but kind of sad about what's happened to baseball. And
as a as a lifelong Mets fan, I'm a little
bit older than they are. I kind of like my
old sort of lovable underdog Mets, and I think they've
(01:28):
shed that, you know now that they're going to spend
in the deep end of the pool with the you know,
the big guys that kind of shed that identity.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, we'll have to touch base with you back when
they're in the playoffs next year and see how you
feel about that. Right there, I'll say this as a
lifelong Yankees fan born on Staten Island, my dad grew
up in the city. Screw you Mets fans, That's really
how I feel, because I want the Juan Soto out
there in right field, but that's not to be. So
(01:59):
we'll have to figure out a way to get Judge
on track for the postseason, because he's a killer in
the regular season. Nonetheless, let's get to the two big
stories of the day if we could. And you're right there,
you're at the epicenter man for both of these things,
and that is Daniel Penny.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
As you know, Daniel Penny.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Was the guy who's being prosecuted by the Manhattan DIA's office,
I believe, for the death of a guy on a
subway train. He was acquitted of all the lesser charges
that the jury hadn't hung on. But what's your sense
of all this stuff that's gone on out there, what's
the feedback that you're seeing.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Well, it's really awful that they brought the case in
the first place, because the guy was heroic. He intervened
in a situation where it required some courage to do
that against somebody who was not only menacing people on
the train, but who we afterwards found out had a
(02:52):
significant criminal record. It'd just come out of a Rikers
Island after doing a stint for punching an old woman
and in the face and breaking some bones in her face.
So this is a bad guy. This was not an
abstract threat. This was very real. It was very real
to the passengers on that train. And I think just
(03:14):
by bringing a case like this under the circumstances that
obtained the message to good people who are valorous and
would be willing to intervene on behalf of vulnerable people
is don't you dare or at least think twice about
doing that? And that's a dangerous thing in a city
(03:35):
of nine million people where we have fewer than thirty
four thousand police, and most rhymes are committed with the
police not on the scene. So I think it's very
irresponsible for Alvin Bragg, the progressive elected Democratic district attorney
in Manhattan, to have brought the case, and he brought
(03:56):
it in a really cynical way. Even if you think
Penny should have been prosecuted, it's at most a negligent
homicide case, but he brought it as mainly a reckless
homicide or manslaughter case in order to try to improve
his odds of getting a conviction. And the other thing
(04:16):
they did was to racialize it so that the prosecutors
kept calling him, you know, the white man and the
white defendant, under circumstances where race didn't have anything to
do with it with it, there was no evidence that
he was at all motivated by bigotry in any way,
and many of the people that he protected on the
(04:37):
train were black passengers who turned out to be some
of the best witnesses in the case for him.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
We're talking with Andrew McCarthy from National Review and Fox
New's former big time federal prosecutor. Do you know the
racial composition, Andy, of that jury that acquitted.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Him, I don't. I know that it was. I know
that it was seven women and five I have men.
I don't recall if I if I saw the racial
composition at some point, I don't remember it. But I
think it's important to note that, even though I'm saying
that Bragg brought it it kind of racialized that I
(05:15):
regard this, and maybe this is because, as you pointed out,
I grew up in the Bronx and I'm you know,
I'm a New York City person. I regard this as
ideological more than racial, in the sense that my experience
as a prosecutor and as someone living in the city
(05:36):
is that black people in general are not motivated or
you know, persuaded any more than anyone else's by those
kinds of arguments. But I think ideological lefties are, and
that tends to be a very different racial makeup than
you might think.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Last question on this before we move on to the
murder of the United CEO Alvin now had already had
an elevated profile beyond the Manhattan DIA's office as it
normally would, based on his tortured prosecution of Donald Trump
for those misdemeanors they stretched out into felonies to beat
the statute of limitations. And now that there's this, now
(06:15):
you grew up there.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Do you get the.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Sense in New York that the Manhattan DA's office has
a tarnished reputation as a result of these things? Or
do people just shrug and move on and go big apple?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
You know, you have to. I found it was necessary
to keep doing this in the case against against President
Trump too, because people would look at that and may
be really outraged by you know, what a farce it was.
And I think what we have to remember is this
is Manhattan. Alvin Bragg's political base got him elected there.
(06:52):
He was not like someone who's appointed.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
He was elected.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
These races throughout the country, these DA races in these
blue one party cities, you know, they tend to be
small turnout affairs, and progressives mobilize and they get there,
you know, they out spend the other side and they
get their people in. But you know, Manhattan, even though
there were improvements for Republicans in the out of boroughs
(07:18):
in the In the recent election, I think Manhattan went
sixty five percent or sixty five points rather for Harris.
She won Manhattan Bay sixty five points. And there was
a pall about two weeks ago that said that Bragg
was favored to be re elected. So I don't think
we can we can say that the national judgment of
(07:40):
what goes on in Manhattan is necessarily reflected in what
Manhattanites think.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Shifting gears to the other big breaking news of the
day and proving out a theorem that I've long held
that beating in the chest of every IVY school graduate
is the potential for a cold blooded murderer. Luigi Mangioni
was grabbed up in Altoona, Pennsylvania in a McDonald's andy.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Didn't you go to an Ivy League school? Anyway?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
I did. But you know, when you started to speak,
I thought you were saying that you and me were
going to be able to beat on somebody's chest.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
For Luigi MANNGIONI give us your take on what's unfolded
here and what's next.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Well, you know it's a radical leftist Apparently, as we
speak unless i've unless something's changed that. I don't think
he's been charged at this point, but it's certainly, you know,
all indications are that he will be according to the reporting.
I think the left obviously has a violence problem. All
kidding aside about the IVY League in the campus in
(08:46):
the United States, the campus has a problem. I did
terrorism cases back in the nineties. Almost every radical movement
of consequence begins on the campus. I mean that just
it seems to be a commonality when you look at
radical groups. That's where those ideas incubate. And I think
(09:10):
when you ask what happens next to me, what would
be interesting is whether the federal prosecutors at my old
haunts in the Southern District of New York are trying
to think about whether there's a federal theory of charging
this guy in order to get the case away from Bragg.
You know, the question is can Bragg be trusted to
(09:31):
do a case against a radical leftist who apparently, you know,
took direct action, as they like to say, against somebody
from the oppressor class.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
You bring up a great point, and that is whether
or not there's a federal hook here. I'd love to
know your thoughts on that, but for another reason too,
not just to get it away from a highly politicized
district attorney's office. And I think we've seen that with
these last two cases. But there's no death penalty in
New York. I think you guys had it for a
cup of coffee in the nineties or something like that.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
But is there a hook for the Feds?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
And if there were, is there a capital aggravator that
would exist here?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
I don't think it would be a capital case. What
I've looked at is the Travel Act, which you see
in a lot of organized crime cases, where it's basically
if somebody travels or otherwise uses facilities in interstate commerce
because you have to have a federal jurisdictional hook, and
then commits a crime of violence, including murder, with the
(10:29):
intention of furthering another crime, like like a Rico conspiracy
or something like that. If death results, the maximum penalty
is any term of years or life, which is a
very significant penalty and probably would exceed what you would
get in New York. The thing is, as you can
(10:49):
tell the way I describe it, my default setting is
that murder is a state crime and it ought to
be handled by the state and these federal cases. You know,
I had a I had an attempted murder case one
time where the jury hung them. Is a terrible case.
And when we talked to them afterwards, one of the
things that puzzled them was why on earth we were
talking about interstate commerce when you know a guy would
(11:12):
put on try to murder a police officer. So you know,
it's complicated to do these federal cases, and it would
be a lot more straightforward and probably a lot better
if you could just trust that the DA would do
his job.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
But yeah, mend that.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Andrew McCarthy, joy talking you man. Honored to talk with you.
I hope I get a chance to do it again.
Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Thanks Jrege, it was my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Hey, listen, we're going to come back from this. What
did you hear there from Andrew McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I'd really like to know what you think about the
Alvin Bragg DA's office and should they be entrusted to
handle this prosecution of this left wing extremist if in
fact he ends up getting charged with murder spoiler alert,
I think that he will.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
We'll talk more about that.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Give us a call it eight fi five four zero
five eighty two fifty five five four zero five eight
two five five. You can also text us at d
A n at five seven seven three nine filling in
for the big guy on the Dan Kapla Show.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
It's George Brockler six thirty KHW.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
And now back to the dan Kapla Show podcast.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Good Lord, that is uh not the murderer Mangioni, that
is the other one, Chuck Mangioni with the flugelhorn. Yeah,
I still believe, still going strong at eighty four years
of age.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Buddy, that's really impressive.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I don't know even know if well, we kind of
joked off air like could this guy be related to him?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I think the answer is no.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
But it's not a common name.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
This kid apparently is a rich kid by the way
he went to. I looked at some stuff online and
this Luigi Mangioni, who is looks like he's a pretty
good for the murder of the CEO of United Healthcare
out there in New York about a week ago, now,
coming up on a week ago. He apparently went to
some forty thousand dollars a year grade school, high school,
(13:09):
all this other stuff went to you, Penn, which I
should point out one of the best business schools in
the country called Wharton School of Business.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Guess who's a graduate of that, Donald Trump? That's it.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
DJT is the man for that, Hey, George Brockler filling
in for Dan caplis Dan doing what the great attorneys do,
and that is to go to court and try cases
on behalf.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Of their clients. I miss it, man.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I'm hoping to get back into it next year when
I take over in the twenty third. But I get
to be here in the seat right now. Thrilled to
have talked with Andrew McCarthy, former big time federal prosecutor
in the Southern District of New York that's maybe one
of the most trial going prosecution offices in the federal
DOJ system. And then of course now he's National Review
(13:55):
in Fox and he talked to us about both Daniel
Penny and Luigi MANGIONI. We've got a phone line, you
can call it and we can have a conversation about them.
Eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five
eight five five four zero five eight two five five.
So many issues one should Alvin Bragg be entrusted to
try this case, you know, Anny McCarthy said, and I
(14:17):
agree with him.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Murder is a state crime.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But in this case, you've got a dude who just
got punched in the professional jewels earlier today with an
acquittal for Daniel Penny, who he had illadvisedly gone over
the top in prosecution for him for the death of
the guy that was going nuts on that subway train
a couple of years ago. And prior to that, he
(14:42):
tortured a bunch of misdemeanors, stretched them out to make
them something that they warn't, to extend the statue of
limitations to go after President Trump on something that would
go largely unprosecuted for anybody else. And now he's got
this land.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
In his lap.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Should the system be trusted or should the Feds, as
Andrew McCarthy point out, find a federal hook to grab
that case and make it federal. That's a tough one
eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five
eight five five four zero five eight two five five.
Going right to the phone lines right now, someone whose
(15:18):
name appears.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
To be A Leiksay, is it e Leiksay Online? One.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
It is a leaks say elik, say thanks three hundred
eleven bays, mister Brockler, since I was last.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
On the air. Yes, how do you know that stuff?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Because even when I had my own show, you would
call up and say, the last time you burped on
air was April to twelveth You know what I mean,
like you would know stuff like that. How do you
know that?
Speaker 6 (15:46):
I just I have a weird memory. So what can
I say?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I feel like I feel like I want to get
matching suits and go to Vegas with you, have us
come down and escalator together, and you could be my
rain man.
Speaker 6 (15:59):
You know, there you go, there you go. We can
make a little bit of money. But hey, are you
going to be like Alvin Bragg and your new role?
If you know you're going to have a driver, probably
want to chief suburban Security team and you know all
the staxes cash like Sannie Willis.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, the sacks of cash, yes, but everything else. No, listen,
this is actually an East Coast thing. I had a
public information officer in my first year in my first
term in office, going back to twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And she had asked the same question.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
She's like, well, hey, aren't you going to get a driver?
And like a suburban and the driver is usually a
senior sergeant with the police department. I'm like, whoa, whoa, sister,
you're in the state of Colorado like that. You've got
to be the governor or an overinflated attorney general to
do something like that. And by the way, our attorney
general has a driver, which is insane, or at least
(16:53):
that's the last time I saw me had a driver.
But no that I like to drive myself, and frankly,
I like to pack my own heat. I don't like
to have someone else take responsibility for me. Hey, when
you listen to Andrew McCarthy, and I know that you
do a deep dive on all of these things because
I've talked to you before, obviously seeing you off the
(17:13):
radio as well. You're well read what is going on
here with the Daniel Penny case.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And then when you.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Look broader and you step back and you look at
what took place on the streets of New York, same
jurisdiction with this Louisy Luigiman, Giona guy.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
What's going on?
Speaker 6 (17:32):
It is so political. I'm a Daniel Penny and the
same prosecutor also had taken a case where a guy
had gone to rob an old guy at the HTM.
The old guy ends up dying. It was an accident,
and she Pretzel twisted it to. You know out here,
(17:54):
let's give you a slap on the wrist and a
candy bar. We won't call it murder, and then they
can know the opposite way, depending on if they like
you politically or not, which is completely wrong. I'm saying
with Alvin Bragg, I would not trust him.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Alexa, I thank you. You speak for everyone.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
If you hear that music, you know that Ryan's about
to push me off the air, and with good reason.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Alexa, thanks for the call.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Always good to have you, Phillip Alexi's line, would you
eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five.
George Brockler filling in for the big Man, Dan Caplis.
Back right after this.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
You're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
George Brockler filling in for Dan Caplis. He is in
the court. I am here in the studio with Ryan
and Kelly and listen. Big big news today all over
the place coming out of New York, though in particular
one the acquittal of Daniel Penny for that really another
(19:03):
attempted miscarriage of justice by Alvin Bragg, the elected district
attorney in Manhattan, who went after this guy for his
freedom and more for his heroic efforts to try to
protect the innocent bystanders inside of a subway train. This
one did have incredible and I know Anny McCarthy, who
was on with us at the top of the hour, said,
(19:26):
I don't think it's I don't think it's racial as
much as ideological.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I think that's probably true.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
But the racial piece fits into the ideology right, And
that is because if this was Daniel Penny who had
defended the people inside the subway train from a deranged,
maniacal white guy, I don't think this thing even ends
up inside of a courtroom, so there is a racial
component to it.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
But I do think it's ideological.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
But at this point, you know, Alvin Bragg, can he
be trusted to handle the second big thing that happened today,
and that is the case of a guy named Luigi
Mangioni who was grabbed up in a McDonald's. By the way,
whoever this worker was at McDonald's that I did, this
guy man. That's got to be like free happy mails
(20:13):
and supersize for life or something, because this.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Guy was huge.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Luigi Mangioni not accused of anything other than a weapons
crime at this time, twenty six year old Ivy League
graduate grew up.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
It looks like.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
From a position of privilege, going to schools that cost
a ton of money every year. He graduated from Penn,
big time Ivy League school. He had on him a
three deep printed firearm plus a suppressor. Now I've seen
people put silencer as you know, a suppressor. And he
(20:47):
gets grabbed up in this McDonald's. This guy presumably is
going to be taken back to Manhattan and he's going
to presumably be charged with the murder of Brian Thompson. Now,
if you haven't heard the name Brian Thompson, it's because
he's largely been described only as the United CEO, which
(21:07):
is true, the United Healthcare CEO.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But this guy is a one hundred percent innocent victim,
right father of two, married, although I think he lived
separately from his wife for a bit, but nonetheless not
deserving of being shot by any stretch of any legal
or moral imagination. But that's not how this Luigi Mangioni
guy saw it.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
And so the issue here is whether or not.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Alvin Brad can be trusted to prosecute this case. And
the other thing I asked Ryan off the air was
this three D printed gun. You know, there's been real
activity here in the state of Colorado to try to
grab up the issue of homemade guns. Three D guns
that sort of beat the system, right, no serial numbers,
So we pass all that says you have to get
(21:58):
them serialized for purposes of identification if they're ever used
in a crime, and ownership and transfer and all this
other stuff. And so now we've seen it used here
in this big time crime. And so if you are
a gun control person, you look at this and say,
this is exactly why we have to do it. If
you are a Second Amendment person, you say, this is
(22:20):
exactly why no law could ever work on it.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Right. This is proof that.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
A law demanding that three D printed guns be serialized
cannot prevent three D guns from being generated or put
into the hands of someone who, by the way, by
all accounts clean criminal history, would have passed any background check.
This was clearly done for purposes of trying to beat
the system and avoid responsibility. I just wonder how that
impacts you. Is this just proof that there's no way
(22:48):
to regulate firearms beyond the are you criminally insane and
it's on a database? And are you a convicted felon
and it's on a database. Keep in mind, by the way,
in the state of Colorado, thanks to the efforts in
part of our Attorney General Phil Wiser, and I feel
like there has to be a disclaimer Ryan every time
I say this. I did lose to Phil in twenty
(23:10):
eighteen for Attorney General, but because of Phil's efforts, there
have been tens of thousands of convicted felons in the
state of Colorado who are now allowed to be re armed,
so this wouldn't even apply to them as well. But
the question here is can Alvin Bragg be trusted to
prosecute this case again? Should the FEDS get involved in this,
(23:30):
especially the FEDS that are going to be helmed by
likely Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, and whoever their hand
picked US attorneys who make it through Senate confirmation are.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
In the coming year. Who should handle this case and why.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Eight five point five four zero five eighty two fifty five,
so many other questions I have, Like you know, we
look at the cases where the younger people walk into
the schools and commit the mass shootings, and we look
at can we prosecute the parents? Could the parents have
some how done something to prevent this from happening, or
(24:06):
did they do something to facilitate what happened. That's what
we saw with the Crumley's right out of Michigan. That's
what we saw with their sons. Now this guy's different.
He's twenty six years old, he's an adult, he's a
graduate with an engineering degree out of PEN I get
all that. But when we're talking about responsibility and doing
a deep dive of post mortem, if you will, on this,
(24:29):
is there some responsibility that should be heaped upon. I
don't know about the parents here, but about an educational
system that not only arms these young men and women
with these crazy ideas of what justice is, but encourages
them to think in terms of if you have the
(24:52):
moral high ground on your issue, whether it's global warming
or protecting the animals or the Palestinian the Humma, whatever
it is, that if you can claim the moral high ground,
anything you do in defense of that is justifiable. Ryan
off Air said it, Man, it's Nicolo Machiavelli. It's to
(25:13):
the ends, justify the means. And if that's what's going
on in education today, is there some responsibility? And I
don't mean that they're going to be drug into court
and be sent to prison. Just shouldn't we know this?
Shouldn't we try to understand this shooter? This would be shooter.
He is a shooter, but he hasn't been accused of
yet whether or not his thought process was the product
(25:38):
of an elitist, liberal East Coast education that put him
in a possession position to basically be a human hand
grenade that pulled his own pin.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I mean, is that what we should be looking at?
And if so, what steps do we take?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I have my own concerns about the the elites out
there in the educational system, But man, it seems like this,
this is just another indictment of the rich eight five
p't five four zero five eighty two fifty five. There's
no death penalty for this guy. And honestly, as I
think about it, from a if this had happened on
the streets of Colorado back in the day before Jared
(26:14):
Polus and the Dems in the legislature got rid of
our death penalty. Would there be aggravators that would exist
that would have made this a capital punishment case?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
And none of them come to mind.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
There were sixteen that we had, probably too many, but
sixteen under our state statute. I can't think of any
that would have made it a capital punishment case.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
But here's what you need to know.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
This kind of murder, this cold blooded after intent with
the deliberation murderer. In New York, the maximum sentence is
twenty five to life.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
That's if this dude goes to trial and gets convicted.
And again that's an open question because if you're Alvin
Bragg and you have shown your hand in multiple big
time cases, Alexa or Alik say, however she announces it
these days told us in the call, this guy's good
for making political decisions about cases, right and left.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
What do you do with this guy? Do you charge him?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
You have to charge him right with the highest class
of murder, first degree murder. But do you give him
a plea barg do you give him some sort of
a deal. Do you stipulate to some kind of a
sentence less than the maximum you get. We don't do
twenty five to life. We only do that as an
indeterminate sentence on sex offenses. We just don't do that
on adult charges. And I see, by the way, for
(27:32):
those of you that have never been in the studio,
and if you have, you probably broke the law because
they're not going to let you in here. You look
through the glass and you look at the incredibly good
looking Detroit Lions fan Ryan Schuling, and he has the
earphones on, he's got his finger on the button.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You're about to tell me something. Are the police here
for me?
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Did you know?
Speaker 6 (27:49):
How?
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Did you know?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I can tell you went an election, going on an investigation.
That's what happens here.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Just that we're at the forty five break, and you
can take it whenever you want, because this one's a
floating break, not a heard out.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
You know, I had a floating break once, but well
I went and saw a doctor about it and they
fixed it to the thing that was supposed to be on.
So now it's just a break. Awesome, yea, which is awesome. Hey, listen,
I want to tell you what's coming up, by the way, too.
In the second hour of the show, we have a
guy named Wayne Williams.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
You may have never heard of Wayne.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Wayne, of course, former Secretary of State for the state
of Colorado back before it became the most hyper partisan
office next to the AGS in our state. Wayne's going
to talk to us about a recent Facebook Live statement
made by the current mayor and his former opponent for
mayor of Colorado Springs, Jemmy Mobilatte. And then at five
(28:40):
thirty six, we're going to have Miranda Devine on to
talk to us about more of this pardon stuff, and
then we'll finish off the show with I think a
great interview one that's going to hit close to home
for me from a group called the Homebuilder's Foundation.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
But I'd love to hear from you more on this.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
What does Alvin Bragg do with this? What do you
expect Alvin Bragg to do with this guy? It's almost
like the anti Daniel Penny, right, Like Daniel Penny's the
dude that saved people's lives by taking matters into his
own hands when a guy was going crazy on a subway.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Now here's a guy.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
That's taken matters into his own hands to kill someone
for some And by the way, did you know he
had a manifesto. Oh yeah, there have been some leaks
about it to CNN and others. We'll talk a little
bit about that when we come back, but I'd love
to hear from you. We also have the texts. If
I can figure out how to get the text thing
going here, we'll keep doing the text, but give us
a call eight five five four zero five eighty two
fifty five eight five five four zero five eight two
(29:37):
five five ask a question of the once in future
district attorney right here on the Dan Kapla Show.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Talk to you just a bit, and.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Now back to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
George Robert filling in for the Dan Caplis.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
The Dan Caplis is in the courtroom trying a case
on behalf of his client. I'm sure scoring some huge
justice for them. Now, Ryan, you do don't accidentally play
any bumper music? That was of course the great Rod Stewart.
What's the feed in? What's the connection? What did I
miss there?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
When you're on a downtown train, you want to.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Know, for the love of on board Now I feel
super ignorant about that, of course, Ryan making reference to
Daniel Penny acquitted today by a jury of his peers
in Manhattan in a case ill brought by da Alvin Bragg.
Maybe the second most. It's hard to know if it's
him or Fannie Willis is the most partisan district attorneys
(30:30):
in the state. They call her Fani, and she had
a gentleman lover named Nathan Wade.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
George, you know as well as I. They should put
you on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Live to replace that guy, who also does, by the way,
a brilliant Donald Trump. The other big news, of course,
Luigi MANGIONI don't know if he's related to the big man, Chuck,
twenty six year old elitist ivy League guy who has
a bit of a manifesto here. Now, CNN had published
some of this stuff. And let me tell you my concern.
(31:01):
This happened in the Aurora theater case. If you recall
that mass murderer, that evil mass murderer had also written
a notebook.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
But in his case, he had mailed it to.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
His psychiatrist at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center.
It got intercepted by law enforcement en route there. The
Postal inspector whatever said hey, we've got this thing from
this guy. It got intercepted grabbed up and it was
a huge pain in the butt from a prosecutor standpoint,
because some member of law enforcement talked about it to
(31:35):
a woman who I cannot remember Winter, last name Winter,
reporter named Winter, who was working at the time for Fox.
I don't think she was an on air person, and
she reported on what this person described. Well, that created
a huge problem for us because the public defenders, who
of course will fight you over anything, filed emotion saying
we want sanctions against Brockler and all of law enforcement
(31:58):
because they released information about this case into the public
stream in violation of a couple rules that we have,
as well as this order that the original chief judge
had given. Now in this particular case, CNN had released
this guy's statements at least a couple that were attributed
(32:18):
to him. The long and the short of which for
this guy were that he says, oh, where's it right here?
These parasites had it coming. This isn't a manifesto. They
grabbed up off of him purportedly at the Altoona MacDonald's
in Pennsylvania. These parasites had it coming. I do apologize
(32:41):
for any strife and trauma, but it had to be
done one disgusting. Nobody believes you that you apologize for this.
You don't kill a father of two, an innocent father
of two, in cold blood. And when I say innocent,
I mean in the truest sense of the word innocent.
Guy didn't do anything to deserve to get murdered on
(33:01):
the streets of New York City.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And in this case, there's more to this.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
But if you're a prosecutor and this information gets leaked out,
and it's law enforcement that does these kinds of things,
rarely do you see a prosecutor leaking this information because
they know how the game is played. It creates potential
problems down the road for the DA and bringing this forward.
What you don't want is for the case to be
tried in public, because if it gets to a certain point,
(33:28):
not only can the DA be sanctioned for a failure
to try to rein in this information. And when I
say sanctioned, I mean it could result in I mean
the death penalty for all this. Ironically, since New York
doesn't have it would be to dismiss the case. I
don't see that happening here, but it could result in
forbidding the DA from using certain evidence from proceeding on
(33:49):
a certain level of charge. It could even result in
something called a change of venue, which means the case
ends up getting tried somewhere else. Now, in this particular case,
this guy being tried New York City is probably not
going to get any better. You get an upstate in
New York and you start to get to a more
conservative jury pool here. But this is a bit of
a problem, but it's an insight into this guy. He
(34:10):
felt completely justified in doing this. And I'm glad we're
almost out of time here, Ryan, because I don't want
to go too far down this rabbit hole. But there's
someone else locally that we talked about who took the
same approach on a much less life or death matter,
but an important one, and that's Tina Peters. Tina Peters
(34:31):
claimed the moral high ground by saying, I'm out here
to find out whether this election was stolen, whether this
data is secure and preserved, and therefore whatever I do
to violate the law is okay because I have a
higher purpose in mind. That's the kind of machiavellian ends
justify the means approach that history has been riddled with
(34:55):
for people to go and do horrible things. You know
who else thought like that dude named Tim McVay. Tim
mcvay's acting blowing up that Murrow building and killing all
those little kids and those innocent government workers was because
he had a higher moral purpose in mind. Listen, we're
gonna have plenty of time to talk about that when
we come back after the.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Top of the hour.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
A guy named Wayne Williams would have been the mayor,
isn't the mayor? I'd love to get his reaction to
a Facebook live statement that Mayor Jemmy Mobilatti gave a
last week about his interactions with the FBI. Did he
tell the truth? George Brockler on the Dan Kaplis Show
stick Around
This is Dan Caplis and welcome to today's online podcast
edition of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to
give us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,
and to subscribe, download, and listen to the show every
single day on your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey, welcome to The Dan Caplis Show.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
It's not me Dan, it's me George Brockler, also a
two time buff undergrad and law school thrilled to be
sitting in for Dan. He's actually doing what lawyers do,
at least the good ones, and that is go to trial.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Lots of news going on today. I am honored.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I have heard this guy interviewed on Dan's show multiple times.
I am thrilled to be able to talk to another
former prosecutor of such great repute, and that is Andy
McCarthy of National Review and a Fox News contributor, former
federal guy out of the Southern District of New York.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sir sir, thanks for joining.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Us, George. It's my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I want to get to.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
The biggest news of the last twenty four hours, and
you're a guy from the Bronx, so you'll appreciate this.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Juan Soto, what happened there.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Well, you know, I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously,
I'm thrilled that the Mets got such a good player,
but kind of sad about what's happened to baseball. And
as a as a lifelong Mets fan, I'm a little
bit older than they are. I kind of like my
old sort of lovable underdog Mets, and I think they've
(01:28):
shed that, you know now that they're going to spend
in the deep end of the pool with the you know,
the big guys that kind of shed that identity.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, we'll have to touch base with you back when
they're in the playoffs next year and see how you
feel about that. Right there, I'll say this as a
lifelong Yankees fan born on Staten Island, my dad grew
up in the city. Screw you Mets fans, That's really
how I feel, because I want the Juan Soto out
there in right field, but that's not to be. So
(01:59):
we'll have to figure out a way to get Judge
on track for the postseason, because he's a killer in
the regular season. Nonetheless, let's get to the two big
stories of the day if we could. And you're right there,
you're at the epicenter man for both of these things,
and that is Daniel Penny.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
As you know, Daniel Penny.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Was the guy who's being prosecuted by the Manhattan DIA's office,
I believe, for the death of a guy on a
subway train. He was acquitted of all the lesser charges
that the jury hadn't hung on. But what's your sense
of all this stuff that's gone on out there, what's
the feedback that you're seeing.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Well, it's really awful that they brought the case in
the first place, because the guy was heroic. He intervened
in a situation where it required some courage to do
that against somebody who was not only menacing people on
the train, but who we afterwards found out had a
(02:52):
significant criminal record. It'd just come out of a Rikers
Island after doing a stint for punching an old woman
and in the face and breaking some bones in her face.
So this is a bad guy. This was not an
abstract threat. This was very real. It was very real
to the passengers on that train. And I think just
(03:14):
by bringing a case like this under the circumstances that
obtained the message to good people who are valorous and
would be willing to intervene on behalf of vulnerable people
is don't you dare or at least think twice about
doing that? And that's a dangerous thing in a city
(03:35):
of nine million people where we have fewer than thirty
four thousand police, and most rhymes are committed with the
police not on the scene. So I think it's very
irresponsible for Alvin Bragg, the progressive elected Democratic district attorney
in Manhattan, to have brought the case, and he brought
(03:56):
it in a really cynical way. Even if you think
Penny should have been prosecuted, it's at most a negligent
homicide case, but he brought it as mainly a reckless
homicide or manslaughter case in order to try to improve
his odds of getting a conviction. And the other thing
(04:16):
they did was to racialize it so that the prosecutors
kept calling him, you know, the white man and the
white defendant, under circumstances where race didn't have anything to
do with it with it, there was no evidence that
he was at all motivated by bigotry in any way,
and many of the people that he protected on the
(04:37):
train were black passengers who turned out to be some
of the best witnesses in the case for him.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
We're talking with Andrew McCarthy from National Review and Fox
New's former big time federal prosecutor. Do you know the
racial composition, Andy, of that jury that acquitted.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Him, I don't. I know that it was. I know
that it was seven women and five I have men.
I don't recall if I if I saw the racial
composition at some point, I don't remember it. But I
think it's important to note that, even though I'm saying
that Bragg brought it it kind of racialized that I
(05:15):
regard this, and maybe this is because, as you pointed out,
I grew up in the Bronx and I'm you know,
I'm a New York City person. I regard this as
ideological more than racial, in the sense that my experience
as a prosecutor and as someone living in the city
(05:36):
is that black people in general are not motivated or
you know, persuaded any more than anyone else's by those
kinds of arguments. But I think ideological lefties are, and
that tends to be a very different racial makeup than
you might think.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Last question on this before we move on to the
murder of the United CEO Alvin now had already had
an elevated profile beyond the Manhattan DIA's office as it
normally would, based on his tortured prosecution of Donald Trump
for those misdemeanors they stretched out into felonies to beat
the statute of limitations. And now that there's this, now
(06:15):
you grew up there.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Do you get the.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Sense in New York that the Manhattan DA's office has
a tarnished reputation as a result of these things? Or
do people just shrug and move on and go big apple?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
You know, you have to. I found it was necessary
to keep doing this in the case against against President
Trump too, because people would look at that and may
be really outraged by you know, what a farce it was.
And I think what we have to remember is this
is Manhattan. Alvin Bragg's political base got him elected there.
(06:52):
He was not like someone who's appointed.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
He was elected.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
These races throughout the country, these DA races in these
blue one party cities, you know, they tend to be
small turnout affairs, and progressives mobilize and they get there,
you know, they out spend the other side and they
get their people in. But you know, Manhattan, even though
there were improvements for Republicans in the out of boroughs
(07:18):
in the In the recent election, I think Manhattan went
sixty five percent or sixty five points rather for Harris.
She won Manhattan Bay sixty five points. And there was
a pall about two weeks ago that said that Bragg
was favored to be re elected. So I don't think
we can we can say that the national judgment of
(07:40):
what goes on in Manhattan is necessarily reflected in what
Manhattanites think.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Shifting gears to the other big breaking news of the
day and proving out a theorem that I've long held
that beating in the chest of every IVY school graduate
is the potential for a cold blooded murderer. Luigi Mangioni
was grabbed up in Altoona, Pennsylvania in a McDonald's andy.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Didn't you go to an Ivy League school? Anyway?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
I did. But you know, when you started to speak,
I thought you were saying that you and me were
going to be able to beat on somebody's chest.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
For Luigi MANNGIONI give us your take on what's unfolded
here and what's next.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Well, you know it's a radical leftist Apparently, as we
speak unless i've unless something's changed that. I don't think
he's been charged at this point, but it's certainly, you know,
all indications are that he will be according to the reporting.
I think the left obviously has a violence problem. All
kidding aside about the IVY League in the campus in
(08:46):
the United States, the campus has a problem. I did
terrorism cases back in the nineties. Almost every radical movement
of consequence begins on the campus. I mean that just
it seems to be a commonality when you look at
radical groups. That's where those ideas incubate. And I think
(09:10):
when you ask what happens next to me, what would
be interesting is whether the federal prosecutors at my old
haunts in the Southern District of New York are trying
to think about whether there's a federal theory of charging
this guy in order to get the case away from Bragg.
You know, the question is can Bragg be trusted to
(09:31):
do a case against a radical leftist who apparently, you know,
took direct action, as they like to say, against somebody
from the oppressor class.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
You bring up a great point, and that is whether
or not there's a federal hook here. I'd love to
know your thoughts on that, but for another reason too,
not just to get it away from a highly politicized
district attorney's office. And I think we've seen that with
these last two cases. But there's no death penalty in
New York. I think you guys had it for a
cup of coffee in the nineties or something like that.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
But is there a hook for the Feds?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
And if there were, is there a capital aggravator that
would exist here?
Speaker 4 (10:08):
I don't think it would be a capital case. What
I've looked at is the Travel Act, which you see
in a lot of organized crime cases, where it's basically
if somebody travels or otherwise uses facilities in interstate commerce
because you have to have a federal jurisdictional hook, and
then commits a crime of violence, including murder, with the
(10:29):
intention of furthering another crime, like like a Rico conspiracy
or something like that. If death results, the maximum penalty
is any term of years or life, which is a
very significant penalty and probably would exceed what you would
get in New York. The thing is, as you can
(10:49):
tell the way I describe it, my default setting is
that murder is a state crime and it ought to
be handled by the state and these federal cases. You know,
I had a I had an attempted murder case one
time where the jury hung them. Is a terrible case.
And when we talked to them afterwards, one of the
things that puzzled them was why on earth we were
talking about interstate commerce when you know a guy would
(11:12):
put on try to murder a police officer. So you know,
it's complicated to do these federal cases, and it would
be a lot more straightforward and probably a lot better
if you could just trust that the DA would do
his job.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
But yeah, mend that.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Andrew McCarthy, joy talking you man. Honored to talk with you.
I hope I get a chance to do it again.
Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Thanks Jrege, it was my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Hey, listen, we're going to come back from this. What
did you hear there from Andrew McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I'd really like to know what you think about the
Alvin Bragg DA's office and should they be entrusted to
handle this prosecution of this left wing extremist if in
fact he ends up getting charged with murder spoiler alert,
I think that he will.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
We'll talk more about that.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Give us a call it eight fi five four zero
five eighty two fifty five five four zero five eight
two five five. You can also text us at d
A n at five seven seven three nine filling in
for the big guy on the Dan Kapla Show.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
It's George Brockler six thirty KHW.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
And now back to the dan Kapla Show podcast.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Good Lord, that is uh not the murderer Mangioni, that
is the other one, Chuck Mangioni with the flugelhorn. Yeah,
I still believe, still going strong at eighty four years
of age.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Buddy, that's really impressive.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I don't know even know if well, we kind of
joked off air like could this guy be related to him?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I think the answer is no.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
But it's not a common name.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
This kid apparently is a rich kid by the way
he went to. I looked at some stuff online and
this Luigi Mangioni, who is looks like he's a pretty
good for the murder of the CEO of United Healthcare
out there in New York about a week ago, now,
coming up on a week ago. He apparently went to
some forty thousand dollars a year grade school, high school,
(13:09):
all this other stuff went to you, Penn, which I
should point out one of the best business schools in
the country called Wharton School of Business.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Guess who's a graduate of that, Donald Trump? That's it.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
DJT is the man for that, Hey, George Brockler filling
in for Dan caplis Dan doing what the great attorneys do,
and that is to go to court and try cases
on behalf.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Of their clients. I miss it, man.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I'm hoping to get back into it next year when
I take over in the twenty third. But I get
to be here in the seat right now. Thrilled to
have talked with Andrew McCarthy, former big time federal prosecutor
in the Southern District of New York that's maybe one
of the most trial going prosecution offices in the federal
DOJ system. And then of course now he's National Review
(13:55):
in Fox and he talked to us about both Daniel
Penny and Luigi MANGIONI. We've got a phone line, you
can call it and we can have a conversation about them.
Eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five
eight five five four zero five eight two five five.
So many issues one should Alvin Bragg be entrusted to
try this case, you know, Anny McCarthy said, and I
(14:17):
agree with him.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Murder is a state crime.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
But in this case, you've got a dude who just
got punched in the professional jewels earlier today with an
acquittal for Daniel Penny, who he had illadvisedly gone over
the top in prosecution for him for the death of
the guy that was going nuts on that subway train
a couple of years ago. And prior to that, he
(14:42):
tortured a bunch of misdemeanors, stretched them out to make
them something that they warn't, to extend the statue of
limitations to go after President Trump on something that would
go largely unprosecuted for anybody else. And now he's got
this land.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
In his lap.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Should the system be trusted or should the Feds, as
Andrew McCarthy point out, find a federal hook to grab
that case and make it federal. That's a tough one
eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five
eight five five four zero five eight two five five.
Going right to the phone lines right now, someone whose
(15:18):
name appears.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
To be A Leiksay, is it e Leiksay Online? One.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
It is a leaks say elik, say thanks three hundred
eleven bays, mister Brockler, since I was last.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
On the air. Yes, how do you know that stuff?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Because even when I had my own show, you would
call up and say, the last time you burped on
air was April to twelveth You know what I mean,
like you would know stuff like that. How do you
know that?
Speaker 6 (15:46):
I just I have a weird memory. So what can
I say?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I feel like I feel like I want to get
matching suits and go to Vegas with you, have us
come down and escalator together, and you could be my
rain man.
Speaker 6 (15:59):
You know, there you go, there you go. We can
make a little bit of money. But hey, are you
going to be like Alvin Bragg and your new role?
If you know you're going to have a driver, probably
want to chief suburban Security team and you know all
the staxes cash like Sannie Willis.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, the sacks of cash, yes, but everything else. No, listen,
this is actually an East Coast thing. I had a
public information officer in my first year in my first
term in office, going back to twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And she had asked the same question.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
She's like, well, hey, aren't you going to get a driver?
And like a suburban and the driver is usually a
senior sergeant with the police department. I'm like, whoa, whoa, sister,
you're in the state of Colorado like that. You've got
to be the governor or an overinflated attorney general to
do something like that. And by the way, our attorney
general has a driver, which is insane, or at least
(16:53):
that's the last time I saw me had a driver.
But no that I like to drive myself, and frankly,
I like to pack my own heat. I don't like
to have someone else take responsibility for me. Hey, when
you listen to Andrew McCarthy, and I know that you
do a deep dive on all of these things because
I've talked to you before, obviously seeing you off the
(17:13):
radio as well. You're well read what is going on
here with the Daniel Penny case.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And then when you.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Look broader and you step back and you look at
what took place on the streets of New York, same
jurisdiction with this Louisy Luigiman, Giona guy.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
What's going on?
Speaker 6 (17:32):
It is so political. I'm a Daniel Penny and the
same prosecutor also had taken a case where a guy
had gone to rob an old guy at the HTM.
The old guy ends up dying. It was an accident,
and she Pretzel twisted it to. You know out here,
(17:54):
let's give you a slap on the wrist and a
candy bar. We won't call it murder, and then they
can know the opposite way, depending on if they like
you politically or not, which is completely wrong. I'm saying
with Alvin Bragg, I would not trust him.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Alexa, I thank you. You speak for everyone.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
If you hear that music, you know that Ryan's about
to push me off the air, and with good reason.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Alexa, thanks for the call.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Always good to have you, Phillip Alexi's line, would you
eight five five four zero five eighty two fifty five.
George Brockler filling in for the big Man, Dan Caplis.
Back right after this.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
You're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
George Brockler filling in for Dan Caplis. He is in
the court. I am here in the studio with Ryan
and Kelly and listen. Big big news today all over
the place coming out of New York, though in particular
one the acquittal of Daniel Penny for that really another
(19:03):
attempted miscarriage of justice by Alvin Bragg, the elected district
attorney in Manhattan, who went after this guy for his
freedom and more for his heroic efforts to try to
protect the innocent bystanders inside of a subway train. This
one did have incredible and I know Anny McCarthy, who
was on with us at the top of the hour, said,
(19:26):
I don't think it's I don't think it's racial as
much as ideological.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I think that's probably true.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
But the racial piece fits into the ideology right, And
that is because if this was Daniel Penny who had
defended the people inside the subway train from a deranged,
maniacal white guy, I don't think this thing even ends
up inside of a courtroom, so there is a racial
component to it.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
But I do think it's ideological.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
But at this point, you know, Alvin Bragg, can he
be trusted to handle the second big thing that happened today,
and that is the case of a guy named Luigi
Mangioni who was grabbed up in a McDonald's. By the way,
whoever this worker was at McDonald's that I did, this
guy man. That's got to be like free happy mails
(20:13):
and supersize for life or something, because this.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Guy was huge.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Luigi Mangioni not accused of anything other than a weapons
crime at this time, twenty six year old Ivy League
graduate grew up.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
It looks like.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
From a position of privilege, going to schools that cost
a ton of money every year. He graduated from Penn,
big time Ivy League school. He had on him a
three deep printed firearm plus a suppressor. Now I've seen
people put silencer as you know, a suppressor. And he
(20:47):
gets grabbed up in this McDonald's. This guy presumably is
going to be taken back to Manhattan and he's going
to presumably be charged with the murder of Brian Thompson. Now,
if you haven't heard the name Brian Thompson, it's because
he's largely been described only as the United CEO, which
(21:07):
is true, the United Healthcare CEO.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But this guy is a one hundred percent innocent victim,
right father of two, married, although I think he lived
separately from his wife for a bit, but nonetheless not
deserving of being shot by any stretch of any legal
or moral imagination. But that's not how this Luigi Mangioni
guy saw it.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
And so the issue here is whether or not.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Alvin Brad can be trusted to prosecute this case. And
the other thing I asked Ryan off the air was
this three D printed gun. You know, there's been real
activity here in the state of Colorado to try to
grab up the issue of homemade guns. Three D guns
that sort of beat the system, right, no serial numbers,
So we pass all that says you have to get
(21:58):
them serialized for purposes of identification if they're ever used
in a crime, and ownership and transfer and all this
other stuff. And so now we've seen it used here
in this big time crime. And so if you are
a gun control person, you look at this and say,
this is exactly why we have to do it. If
you are a Second Amendment person, you say, this is
(22:20):
exactly why no law could ever work on it.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Right. This is proof that.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
A law demanding that three D printed guns be serialized
cannot prevent three D guns from being generated or put
into the hands of someone who, by the way, by
all accounts clean criminal history, would have passed any background check.
This was clearly done for purposes of trying to beat
the system and avoid responsibility. I just wonder how that
impacts you. Is this just proof that there's no way
(22:48):
to regulate firearms beyond the are you criminally insane and
it's on a database? And are you a convicted felon
and it's on a database. Keep in mind, by the way,
in the state of Colorado, thanks to the efforts in
part of our Attorney General Phil Wiser, and I feel
like there has to be a disclaimer Ryan every time
I say this. I did lose to Phil in twenty
(23:10):
eighteen for Attorney General, but because of Phil's efforts, there
have been tens of thousands of convicted felons in the
state of Colorado who are now allowed to be re armed,
so this wouldn't even apply to them as well. But
the question here is can Alvin Bragg be trusted to
prosecute this case again? Should the FEDS get involved in this,
(23:30):
especially the FEDS that are going to be helmed by
likely Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, and whoever their hand
picked US attorneys who make it through Senate confirmation are.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
In the coming year. Who should handle this case and why.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Eight five point five four zero five eighty two fifty five,
so many other questions I have, Like you know, we
look at the cases where the younger people walk into
the schools and commit the mass shootings, and we look
at can we prosecute the parents? Could the parents have
some how done something to prevent this from happening, or
(24:06):
did they do something to facilitate what happened. That's what
we saw with the Crumley's right out of Michigan. That's
what we saw with their sons. Now this guy's different.
He's twenty six years old, he's an adult, he's a
graduate with an engineering degree out of PEN I get
all that. But when we're talking about responsibility and doing
a deep dive of post mortem, if you will, on this,
(24:29):
is there some responsibility that should be heaped upon. I
don't know about the parents here, but about an educational
system that not only arms these young men and women
with these crazy ideas of what justice is, but encourages
them to think in terms of if you have the
(24:52):
moral high ground on your issue, whether it's global warming
or protecting the animals or the Palestinian the Humma, whatever
it is, that if you can claim the moral high ground,
anything you do in defense of that is justifiable. Ryan
off Air said it, Man, it's Nicolo Machiavelli. It's to
(25:13):
the ends, justify the means. And if that's what's going
on in education today, is there some responsibility? And I
don't mean that they're going to be drug into court
and be sent to prison. Just shouldn't we know this?
Shouldn't we try to understand this shooter? This would be shooter.
He is a shooter, but he hasn't been accused of
yet whether or not his thought process was the product
(25:38):
of an elitist, liberal East Coast education that put him
in a possession position to basically be a human hand
grenade that pulled his own pin.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I mean, is that what we should be looking at?
And if so, what steps do we take?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I have my own concerns about the the elites out
there in the educational system, But man, it seems like this,
this is just another indictment of the rich eight five
p't five four zero five eighty two fifty five. There's
no death penalty for this guy. And honestly, as I
think about it, from a if this had happened on
the streets of Colorado back in the day before Jared
(26:14):
Polus and the Dems in the legislature got rid of
our death penalty. Would there be aggravators that would exist
that would have made this a capital punishment case?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
And none of them come to mind.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
There were sixteen that we had, probably too many, but
sixteen under our state statute. I can't think of any
that would have made it a capital punishment case.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
But here's what you need to know.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
This kind of murder, this cold blooded after intent with
the deliberation murderer. In New York, the maximum sentence is
twenty five to life.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
That's if this dude goes to trial and gets convicted.
And again that's an open question because if you're Alvin
Bragg and you have shown your hand in multiple big
time cases, Alexa or Alik say, however she announces it
these days told us in the call, this guy's good
for making political decisions about cases, right and left.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
What do you do with this guy? Do you charge him?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
You have to charge him right with the highest class
of murder, first degree murder. But do you give him
a plea barg do you give him some sort of
a deal. Do you stipulate to some kind of a
sentence less than the maximum you get. We don't do
twenty five to life. We only do that as an
indeterminate sentence on sex offenses. We just don't do that
on adult charges. And I see, by the way, for
(27:32):
those of you that have never been in the studio,
and if you have, you probably broke the law because
they're not going to let you in here. You look
through the glass and you look at the incredibly good
looking Detroit Lions fan Ryan Schuling, and he has the
earphones on, he's got his finger on the button.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You're about to tell me something. Are the police here
for me?
Speaker 5 (27:49):
Did you know?
Speaker 6 (27:49):
How?
Speaker 5 (27:50):
Did you know?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I can tell you went an election, going on an investigation.
That's what happens here.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Just that we're at the forty five break, and you
can take it whenever you want, because this one's a
floating break, not a heard out.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
You know, I had a floating break once, but well
I went and saw a doctor about it and they
fixed it to the thing that was supposed to be on.
So now it's just a break. Awesome, yea, which is awesome. Hey, listen,
I want to tell you what's coming up, by the way, too.
In the second hour of the show, we have a
guy named Wayne Williams.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
You may have never heard of Wayne.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Wayne, of course, former Secretary of State for the state
of Colorado back before it became the most hyper partisan
office next to the AGS in our state. Wayne's going
to talk to us about a recent Facebook Live statement
made by the current mayor and his former opponent for
mayor of Colorado Springs, Jemmy Mobilatte. And then at five
(28:40):
thirty six, we're going to have Miranda Devine on to
talk to us about more of this pardon stuff, and
then we'll finish off the show with I think a
great interview one that's going to hit close to home
for me from a group called the Homebuilder's Foundation.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
But I'd love to hear from you more on this.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
What does Alvin Bragg do with this? What do you
expect Alvin Bragg to do with this guy? It's almost
like the anti Daniel Penny, right, Like Daniel Penny's the
dude that saved people's lives by taking matters into his
own hands when a guy was going crazy on a subway.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Now here's a guy.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
That's taken matters into his own hands to kill someone
for some And by the way, did you know he
had a manifesto. Oh yeah, there have been some leaks
about it to CNN and others. We'll talk a little
bit about that when we come back, but I'd love
to hear from you. We also have the texts. If
I can figure out how to get the text thing
going here, we'll keep doing the text, but give us
a call eight five five four zero five eighty two
fifty five eight five five four zero five eight two
(29:37):
five five ask a question of the once in future
district attorney right here on the Dan Kapla Show.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Talk to you just a bit, and.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Now back to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
George Robert filling in for the Dan Caplis.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
The Dan Caplis is in the courtroom trying a case
on behalf of his client. I'm sure scoring some huge
justice for them. Now, Ryan, you do don't accidentally play
any bumper music? That was of course the great Rod Stewart.
What's the feed in? What's the connection? What did I
miss there?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
When you're on a downtown train, you want to.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Know, for the love of on board Now I feel
super ignorant about that, of course, Ryan making reference to
Daniel Penny acquitted today by a jury of his peers
in Manhattan in a case ill brought by da Alvin Bragg.
Maybe the second most. It's hard to know if it's
him or Fannie Willis is the most partisan district attorneys
(30:30):
in the state. They call her Fani, and she had
a gentleman lover named Nathan Wade.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
George, you know as well as I. They should put
you on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Live to replace that guy, who also does, by the way,
a brilliant Donald Trump. The other big news, of course,
Luigi MANGIONI don't know if he's related to the big man, Chuck,
twenty six year old elitist ivy League guy who has
a bit of a manifesto here. Now, CNN had published
some of this stuff. And let me tell you my concern.
(31:01):
This happened in the Aurora theater case. If you recall
that mass murderer, that evil mass murderer had also written
a notebook.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
But in his case, he had mailed it to.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
His psychiatrist at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center.
It got intercepted by law enforcement en route there. The
Postal inspector whatever said hey, we've got this thing from
this guy. It got intercepted grabbed up and it was
a huge pain in the butt from a prosecutor standpoint,
because some member of law enforcement talked about it to
(31:35):
a woman who I cannot remember Winter, last name Winter,
reporter named Winter, who was working at the time for Fox.
I don't think she was an on air person, and
she reported on what this person described. Well, that created
a huge problem for us because the public defenders, who
of course will fight you over anything, filed emotion saying
we want sanctions against Brockler and all of law enforcement
(31:58):
because they released information about this case into the public
stream in violation of a couple rules that we have,
as well as this order that the original chief judge
had given. Now in this particular case, CNN had released
this guy's statements at least a couple that were attributed
(32:18):
to him. The long and the short of which for
this guy were that he says, oh, where's it right here?
These parasites had it coming. This isn't a manifesto. They
grabbed up off of him purportedly at the Altoona MacDonald's
in Pennsylvania. These parasites had it coming. I do apologize
(32:41):
for any strife and trauma, but it had to be
done one disgusting. Nobody believes you that you apologize for this.
You don't kill a father of two, an innocent father
of two, in cold blood. And when I say innocent,
I mean in the truest sense of the word innocent.
Guy didn't do anything to deserve to get murdered on
(33:01):
the streets of New York City.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And in this case, there's more to this.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
But if you're a prosecutor and this information gets leaked out,
and it's law enforcement that does these kinds of things,
rarely do you see a prosecutor leaking this information because
they know how the game is played. It creates potential
problems down the road for the DA and bringing this forward.
What you don't want is for the case to be
tried in public, because if it gets to a certain point,
(33:28):
not only can the DA be sanctioned for a failure
to try to rein in this information. And when I
say sanctioned, I mean it could result in I mean
the death penalty for all this. Ironically, since New York
doesn't have it would be to dismiss the case. I
don't see that happening here, but it could result in
forbidding the DA from using certain evidence from proceeding on
(33:49):
a certain level of charge. It could even result in
something called a change of venue, which means the case
ends up getting tried somewhere else. Now, in this particular case,
this guy being tried New York City is probably not
going to get any better. You get an upstate in
New York and you start to get to a more
conservative jury pool here. But this is a bit of
a problem, but it's an insight into this guy. He
(34:10):
felt completely justified in doing this. And I'm glad we're
almost out of time here, Ryan, because I don't want
to go too far down this rabbit hole. But there's
someone else locally that we talked about who took the
same approach on a much less life or death matter,
but an important one, and that's Tina Peters. Tina Peters
(34:31):
claimed the moral high ground by saying, I'm out here
to find out whether this election was stolen, whether this
data is secure and preserved, and therefore whatever I do
to violate the law is okay because I have a
higher purpose in mind. That's the kind of machiavellian ends
justify the means approach that history has been riddled with
(34:55):
for people to go and do horrible things. You know
who else thought like that dude named Tim McVay. Tim
mcvay's acting blowing up that Murrow building and killing all
those little kids and those innocent government workers was because
he had a higher moral purpose in mind. Listen, we're
gonna have plenty of time to talk about that when
we come back after the.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Top of the hour.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
A guy named Wayne Williams would have been the mayor,
isn't the mayor? I'd love to get his reaction to
a Facebook live statement that Mayor Jemmy Mobilatti gave a
last week about his interactions with the FBI. Did he
tell the truth? George Brockler on the Dan Kaplis Show
stick Around
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