Rep. Gabe Evans (R-CO 8) once flew Blackhawk helicopters while serving in the U.S. Army overseas and provides his perspective on the devastating crash with a commercial jet from Wichita carrying 64 passengers and crew - all of whom perished along with three on the helicopter training mission near Reagan National Airport.
Grady Block, Mountain States Legal Foundation discusses his representation in a lawsuit for several FAA air traffic control applicants who were turned away by the Obama and Biden administrations simply because they were white. Will President Trump step in and make it right for these folks?
Grady Block, Mountain States Legal Foundation discusses his representation in a lawsuit for several FAA air traffic control applicants who were turned away by the Obama and Biden administrations simply because they were white. Will President Trump step in and make it right for these folks?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Dan Caplis and welcome to today's online podcast edition
of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to give
us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,
and to subscribe, download and listen to the show every
single day on your favorite podcast platform. Our next guest
fighting very effectively for.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The American Way. Let's go straight to the VIP line.
Welcome Congressman Gabe Evans. Feels good to say that to
The Dan Caplis Show. Congressman, how are you doing good?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Very very well? Thank you for that, and hey, grateful
for the time. I know you are absolutely buried and
you're getting off to a very fast start there. But
having been a black Hawk helicopter pilot, I just know
you have invaluable insight into what you can see and
not see at night flying in a situation like this,
So anything you could share there would be appreciated.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well, first of all, I mean, this is just an
absolute tragedy what happened out at Reagan National Airport in Washington,
and so our hearts go out to the friends, the family,
and of course the victims who perished in that accident.
You know, I spent almost ten years flying black Hawk
helicopters here in Colorado and overseas in the combat zone.
I was a black Hawk helicopter pilot and Command company commander,
(01:12):
air mission commander, and Aircrew Training Program commander. So I've
seen this from a few different perspectives and spent a
lot of time flying around, you know, in and amongst
a Denver's airspace, which is top five upmost busy airports
in the nation. And so, you know, as the news
started to come out about what happened, I had a
couple of thoughts to go through my head. First of all,
this is happening at nighttime under night vision goggles. Night
(01:35):
vision goggles is actually one of the most challenging modes
of flight for rotary wing aircrews. Right now, your normal
vision is about one hundred and thirty degrees top of autumn,
and from left to right it's about two hundred degrees.
Your field of view, your standard issue night vision goggles
are like looking through toilet paper tubes. It's about a
forty degree field of view, which means that even under
(01:57):
night vision goggles, your field of view is like less
than ten percent of what it is. I know right now,
with all of us just looking normally around and you
lose a little bit of depth perception also with the
night vision goggles. So in dense airspace like what's around
Reagan National Airport, even if that Blackhawk helicopter crew is
(02:18):
talking to air traffic control, which it sounds like it was,
and air traffic tells them, you know, be advised of
company traffic, it's entirely possible that that crewe just because
of the limitations of night vision technology, potentially misidentified which
aircraft they were being advised of.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Congressman gave Evans her guest. Now, Congressman, I assume they
need to be wearing these night vision goggles for training
purposes because it seems like a dangerous restriction in that
kind of busy airspace.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, so it sounds like what was happening is a
check ride. So to be a helicopter pilot for the
United States Army is years of work and training and
there is a long laundry list of tasks that you
have to be proficient and responding to. It's actually called
a CTL commander's task list. And when I was an
(03:12):
Aircrew Training Program commander, I was the officer that had
oversight of those commander task lists and everybody who flew
on my aircraft to make sure that they were meeting
all of those different criteria. All the way I make
sure somebody meets that criteria is once a year, they
have to sit down for a pretty exhaustive examination that
(03:32):
includes both oral knowledge written knowledge, and then you actually
have to go out and put it into practice flying
with an instructor pilot and show that you still have
the technical and tactical proficiency to be able to employ
the aircraft. So, if that's what's happening on this particular flight,
this is a It's one of the most complex missions
(03:55):
that there are, and it's designed to be complex because
this is the test that proves they're not you're capable
of effectively employing that aircraft.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wow. And at that point, Congressman, because obviously the pilot
and whoever's testing the pilot, they know their visions restricted.
Are they relying on air traffic control at that point?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
And so this is where this is where we're all
in on one team. When you're up in the air,
you know, we would brief this every time we took
off of once we get into the air. The only
thing that matters is physics, and so we all have
to work together as a team. Pilots, you're true chiefs
in the backseat, air traffic control other airmen who are
also flying and operating in that same airspace. And so
(04:39):
it's an incredibly complex system. And realistically, the United States
has done a fantastic job of managing all of the
things that could go wrong and all of the human
error that could intrude into a situation like that with
a program that's been around and refined really for the
last half half century called Crew Resource Management, and it
(05:02):
is a formalized training program that is designed to make
sure that pilot's, aircrew, air traffic controllers are all able
to work together, exchange mission critical information, conduct airspace surveillance,
and then check and crosscheck each other so that accidents
don't happen, even when you're operating in a dynamic, high risk,
rank structured environment. And so we really do have an
(05:25):
exceptional track record of safety in aviation. But even so,
it's still an incredibly complex environment to operate in, and
just a couple of seconds of loss of concentration or
focusing on the wrong thing still can unfortunately result in
these terrible tragedies.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Congressman Gabe Evans kind enough to be with us hee
a black Hawk helicopter pilot during his years of service
to the country. Now, sir, how fast would you guess
that helicopter was moving at the time.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
The typical cruising speed for a Blackhawk helicopter is one
hundred and twenty nine. We measure speed in knots air speed,
not as like one point two miles an hour, so
depending on your altitude, somewhere around one hundred and thirty
miles an hour. Now, I have not ever personally flown
in the Washington DC airspace and a black Hawk helicopter,
(06:17):
so it's possible that there could be air speed restrictions
when you're flying. It sounds like there's a rotary wing
corridor that follows the Potomac. It's possible that there is
an air speed restriction, But typically the Blackhawk helicopter is
operated between eighty and one hundred and twenty knots, so
ninety two one hundred and thirty one hundred and thirty
five miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And I don't know if you've seen the new angle
video that it new to us. You probably saw it before.
That's just being made public that appears to show the
helicopter flying straight at the plane. For I thought one
reporter said, twelve or thirteen seconds, have you seen that angle?
And if so, what do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So I haven't seen that angle, And really there's what
initially pops to mind is, again, there are so many
different things that you have to monitor when you're flying.
The division of labor in the cockpit is typically one aircraft,
one pilot who's operating the aircraft. They're the ones whose
hands are on the control. They're controlling air speed, altitude, pitch,
(07:19):
yaw roll, all of the things that you're doing to
actually fly the aircraft. Then you have the non flying pilots,
so they're monitoring radios, they're monitoring airspace, they're thinking ahead
to whatever the next step is in the mission. And
then you have your back seaters, your crew chiefs, who
are continuing to provide a variety of other tasks, things
(07:40):
like airspace surveillance. If you're carrying a load, they're in
charge of the cargo. If you're in a combat situation,
they're in charge of the machine gun. So that whole
crew is working together to be able to operate that
aircraft and again under night vision goggles dense airspace, the
risk of what we call, you know, target fixation or
(08:03):
tunnel vision, focusing on one thing instead of being able
to maintain your scan and your situational awareness is something
that's an ever present risk. And not just for pilots.
You know, again, we're a team with air traffic control.
They can see a lot of the same things that
we see through what it's called a transponder, which allows
air traffic control to specifically and uniquely identify aircraft, be
(08:26):
able to see their altitude, be able to see their speed,
and so it really is a team to be able
to safely operate in the national airspace system.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And my last two questions, you've been so generous with
your time, and you have this unique expertise, so we
want to try to tap it all. Speaking of air
traffic control at that point, to you, as a layman,
I would think that air traffic control would be screaming
at both of those pilots and would have some type
of process in place. And wouldn't there be an onboard
collision alert system on the Blackhawk as well as on
(09:00):
commercial airline So.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
That system is called t CAST Terminal Collision Avoidance system.
It's installed on all the airliners. It's required to be
the limitation with t casts, so t caass can see
all of these other transponders. To operate in the airspace
that's around these busy airport's Class B airspace, you are
required to have a transponder on and operating as an
(09:25):
airliner is coming in for landing. However, it's the aircraft
is facing an airport where there are of course lots
of other planes taking off and landing, and so the
sensitivity of TEA casts actually steps down because you know,
you don't need the system freaking out and telling you
there's a bunch of planes ahead. Well, yes, I know
that I'm going to land at the airport, so at
(09:48):
below about one thousand feet and then around five hundred feet.
There are designs in the TCAST system where it steps
down its sensitivity just so it's not blaring at the
pilots as they're executing this critical mode of flight, you know,
landing in an airport.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And thank you. That's really interesting and something I'd never
heard before. Final question, why would there be a black
cop training mission at night between these three major airports Dallas, Reagan, Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
We had to do that all the time here in
the Denver air space. Interesting, if you are going to
operate that aircraft, you know, for myself as a pilot
in command, once I take off, I mean you're almost
like a a ship's captain. You have a tremendous breadth
of authority to be able to do whatever it is
that you deem necessary to protect the lives of your
(10:41):
crew and respond to any emergencies or contingencies. And so
that just what we call airmanship, good decision making. That
airmanship is something that's evaluated. And so if you're going
to be operating in you know, the Denver metro area,
you're going to be operating in the Washington DC area,
you know, moving VIPs. That's a mission set that I've performed.
You have to be able to show your competence to
(11:04):
be able to perform in that environment. And there's really
no other alternative to evaluate your mission effectiveness other than
to actually go out and fly the mission.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Well, thank you so much, Congressman for sharing your expertise.
I've got to tell you, you know, I around a
lot of expert witnesses. I watch a lot of on TV, etc.
I've never heard anybody explain these things better than you
just did. So thank you for being here today and
look forward to the next conversation.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Well, I really appreciate it. Thanks for the time, and
again our hearts go out to the friends and the
families and the loved ones.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Amend that you take care, sir that his Congressman gave Evans,
who obviously has been a black Hawk helicopter pilot, appreciate
his expertise. You're on the Dan Kapla Show.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
And now back to the Dan Taplas Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
We usually come back with music. I don't know what
that was. Is there an industrial accident back there or
what something.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
That I'm interesting? You might say that it's the song
is called Helicopter.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Okay, see hey do they have an English version?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (12:04):
That was it? Oh it was that kind of an
English proto punk band. Gotcha, Kelly would hate this music.
So I'm glad alexis here right now.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's I have been murdered. Well, and thank you Kelly
off today. Thank you Alexa for being here. Thank you
to Congressman Gabe Evans who joined us in the last segment.
And I was saying to the congressman. You know, I
work with a lot of great top experts from around
the country in my lawn job, and obviously watched these
experts on TV. These aviation guys, I've never heard better
(12:33):
than we just heard in that last segment with Gabe Evans,
who's an expert operating Black Hall helicopters. He's piloted them
for years, including here and overseas, and he just added
so much insight into you know, what it's like in
the cockpit, particularly in those kind of situations. So if
you get a chance, if you didn't hear it, go
back in the podcast, Texter Dan Wild. Gabe Evans is
(12:55):
a stud So glad you got elected. Great interview. Dan.
If the TCA system or whatever downgrades near airports, well
then we've got to keep army helicopters in night vision
goggles away. Someone said, common sense. I learned so much
in that interview, and what Congressman Evans was telling us
was that, you know, these warning systems, collision warning systems
(13:18):
are downgraded in sensitivity as you get closer to that
airport runway because there are so many other planes there
and they don't want the pilot being bombarded with these
warnings because the warnings are triggered by transponders on other aircraft.
So fascinating to know that. Not not very comforting, I
think for anybody, but fascinating to know that Dana plane
(13:39):
just hit them all in Philly. Text are correct. That's
what the headlines have been. Now we're seeing some headlines
saying near mall, some headlines saying further from all. Everybody's
saying a small plane. The fireball that's visible in the video.
Then if it's a small plane, single engine, small plane,
the big fireball, I'm guessing is because of what it hit.
(13:59):
You know, must have hit cars or something else with accelerant,
you know, with some type of fuel to have that
big of fireball. But apparently single engine, small plane and
having grown up Ryan, I mean literally just off the
end of the runway at Midway Airport in Chicago on
the southwest side. Plane crashes, not major commercial crashes, but
(14:20):
plane crashes just seemed like a fairly kind of routine thing,
normally small planes. But there was that one big commercial crash.
You would know this because you're like, you're like the
original AI but that crash south side of Chicago, bunch
of Watergate figures were on all right, Yeah, that was
on the flight path to our house. If that plane
(14:42):
had stayed in the air another second or two, it
would have been right there. But what year was that,
because yeah, that was the one big commercial crash in
our neighborhood.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
I remember there was a Northwest Airlines crash in Detroit
and only one little girl survived.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Everybody else died.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Her mother had covered her, her mother's charred body had
protected the little girl.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
And she lived. She's in her thirties now, maybe forties.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Man. We were so close to the end of the
runway that literally, if we were flying in, family would
come out on the back porch to wave.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
So I remember you remember when you tried to sit on.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
The right side of the plane because then you could
see our house down there.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Did you see Wayne's World the movie? I must have.
There's a there's this great scene.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
I think it's Chicago, Illinois, and Wayne and Garth are
literally right we were talking. They're on their car watching
the planes fly overhead. So but I know it's true
the question that I had, and I'm so glad that
you asked, and thank you for doing that. Dan was
so in Chicago. You've got o'haran Midway two airports. Yeah,
Detroit only has one. We're we're talking here, and I
(15:45):
just flew into Dullest to go to the inauguration. There
are three three major airports, all within striking distance triangulated
from one another, Dullest, Reagan in Baltimore, which isn't that
far away either, And Representative Evans underscored to us, Yeah,
you got to be able to fly black Hawk helicopter
under those conditions.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, I thought that was one of the really interesting
things he said. Everything was actually but that they, as
I understood him, they make it a point to go
out into those most challenging environments to train because you've
got to have that airmanship ability. And it is when
you think about it, Ryan, right, I mean, what happened
the other night completely preventable, cannot be allowed in America.
(16:25):
But the fact that we have all these aircraft in
the air all the time, and it's been how many
years now since we've had a major disaster now, way
too many near misses. Yeah, and obviously the system needs
to be upgraded, but almost a miracle that we don't
have more of this.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
But how much of this blame lies at the feet
of Pete Budha Judge, who was horribly unqualified for that
position Department of Transportation.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
We all know that, and he was a DEI hire himself.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
He was a mayor of South ben Indiana, had no
experience in the field. We had not enough air traffic controllers.
This is being widely reported. Then this is to blame
one person was doing two persons people's jobs. Feel very
bad for our air traffic controllers. But the question remains,
why were they turning away qualified white male applicants just
because they couldn't make diversity.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Highers, Which is as I'm sure you intended, the perfect
transition into our next guest, because this is a guest
you probably have not heard anywhere else. Grady Block Mountain
States Legal Foundation. They are not newcomers to this. They
have had a class action suit in the works for
a while representing I think over a thousand folks who
wanted to be air traffic controllers and say they were
(17:28):
denied because they're white. And so this lawsuit it's been
certified for class action status. Will get the details after
the break, but it comes down to this, right listen,
It may well be that the most qualified air traffic
controller in America. That one individual the pinnacle of the
profession may be black, maybe a woman, maybe Latino, maybe white,
maybe whatever. But the point being that when it comes
(17:50):
to that position, or any position, it should not be
based on race, as doctor King said, it should always
be based on merit. But clearly, and whether it's a
direct cause here or now, we don't know. We'll left
to find out over time. But clearly, the left, clearly
the left has been in many ways, many many ways,
including legalization of drugs, and we have no idea if
(18:12):
that was a factor here has been lowering the standards
in America, lowering the standards of competence, lowering the standards
of performance. That has to be replaced across the board.
You're on the Dan Kapla.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Show, you're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 6 (18:29):
I would say that I'm so sorry. Oh maybe people
are getting detect children. I don't understand. I'm so sorry.
I wish I could do something that it can I
(18:50):
don't know what to do. I'll try everything.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, Selena Gomez so deeply disturbed there. Well, one thing
she could do is be grateful that President Trump is
removing criminally legals, because criminally legals prey on everybody, including
other people here illegally. Hey, let's go to the VIP line. Here,
we've got Grady Block with us, very very important guests
(19:23):
from Mountain State's Legal Foundation on this lawsuit, which has
been important from day one, but now has taken on
this added importance in view of the horror the other
night in Washington, d C. Grady, Welcome to the Dan
Kapla Show.
Speaker 7 (19:38):
Hey, Dan, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, this to me, both as a lawyer, talk show host,
and American citizen, etc. Is so fascinating and important. Would
you please give people an overview of this class action
case pertaining to air traffic controllers and people who wanted
that job.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (19:58):
So, it's kind of an interesting case back to the
late Obama Biden administration. So we are representing nearly one
thousand members of this class that were discriminated against by
their race by that administration. And basically what happened is,
you know, they were wanting to be air traffic controllers.
They went to school, they did all the right things,
(20:20):
They graduated from a program that had nearly one hundred
percent success rate, and placement for being an air traffic controller.
And what happened was there was a class about a
thousand people and the Obama Biden administration looked at it
and said, you know, this looks a little bit too
white for us, so we're going to revise all the
metrics for getting into this. Instead of going with the
program that they used to do, they switched to a
(20:41):
different questionnaire that effectively gerrymandered the hiring pool. So these
thousand people that were representing were excluded because of this
new test that they implemented that essentially just discriminated people
against them for their race.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
It's so wait a second, you're telling me you've got
this pool of applicants generally considered qualified. It's where they'd
drawn from in the past, largely to fill these air
traffic control jobs. And that the is it the Obama
Biden administration that then came in and changed the game
because they didn't like the skin color of the applicants.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
That's exactly right. So this was back in twenty twelve,
twenty thirteen when all this happened. We actually filed the
suit in twenty fourteen, so this goes back quite a way.
It's been going on for quite some time, but that's
exactly what happened. They had a very qualified pool and
they didn't like the color of their skin, so they
changed the tests. Jerry mannered these people out of their
expected jobs, effectively ruining their lives. You know, there were
(21:42):
people that went to college, got degrees, took this test,
invested thousands of dollars based on this previous test, and
then they just had it all pulled out from under them.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Oh my lord, Well, it sounds like I haven't read
the pleatings, etc. But it sounds like an incredibly strong
case that that's taken on an added national importance. Right now,
what's the defense?
Speaker 7 (22:06):
So the defense is interesting right now? You know, the
main thing we're still in discoveries. We haven't actually gotten
to the true merits of the case. But the interesting
part right now is that in the late Biden administration
they had asserted privilege over about fourteen thousand documents and
basically trying to sweep the entire thing under the rug.
(22:26):
You know, there's been some settlement discussions, but nothing really
truly fruitful. But yeah, it's definitely coming to light now
for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well, and so right now it would be the current
administration that would be engaged in settlement discussions, right.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
And right, which is it's a very quickly moving target here,
because you know, the administration just got into office, so
you know, I'm not even sure if they were truly
aware of all this happening right now. They definitely are
now wow. But yeah, that's one thing that's really interesting
thing is you know the change in administration. You know,
(23:03):
President Trump could come in and order a very very
different course of action here than the Biden administration.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, right, and it would seem that he's very very
sympathetic to your cause. And I'm just trying to understand
how a defense in this case, But based on everything
you've told this Grady Block, our special guest from Mountain
States Legal Foundation, how any administration could ever try to
justify this, could ever try to justify hiring for any
(23:30):
position based on the criteria of skin color. It seems
the opposite of doctor King's core principle and American law.
But then beyond that, for this position, I mean, this
is like a heart surgeon, right, You've got to have
merit above all in that job.
Speaker 7 (23:47):
Yeah, absolutely, you're right, man. You know, this is something
that is clearly capable of creating very serious, dangerous situations,
you know, in a way at AA, sorry was playing
politics with public safety really here, and you know doctor
King said it. Justin's Clarence Thomas said it. The constitution
(24:07):
of boris classifications based on race, and that's exactly what
was happening here, and it's really unfortunate the situations that
it's causing.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Well, you guys do a lot of great work Mountain
States Legal Foundation. Can you tell folks a little bit
about it and if they want to support it, what
they can do.
Speaker 7 (24:23):
Yeah, absolutely so, Mountain States Legua Foundation. It's in Denver, Colorado.
We operate all over the West, but really all over
the country or a nonprofit public interest firm and pro bono,
which is one of the great things. Our clients love
our rates. So we do all sorts of law. You know,
we do free speech claims, we do Second Amendment work.
(24:45):
We've got a couple active waiting period cases in Colorado
and New Mexico right now. We do a lot of
natural protection work and we're very accessible via social media.
If you can also check out our website anytime at
MS legal dot org.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Well, I appreciate everything you guys do, and I'm going
to dive into the pleatings over the weekend. How do
I pronounce it? Bri I g I d A. Is
that brigit up? Brigita v dot bridget bridgidarly.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
It was a bit of a source of confusion early on,
but it's definitely bridget Okay. Yeah, the pleetings are fascinating ones.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, courage. Now I'm going to dive in and then
tweet them out, but would love to stay in touch
with you as this unfolds. I think it's important on
so many levels, and starting obviously now with making sure
we have the most competent people possible, you know, and
if that means every air traffic controller is a person
of color, or is a woman, or is white, or
is this or is that it just needs to be
(25:40):
the most qualified.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
Person, absolutely, Daniel hulf percent right. Really the important thing
here is safety, and that's I don't think anybody cares
about the race. People just want to be safe when
they're flying.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Amen to that. Well, Hey, thank you keep up the
great work and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
Yeah, thank you so much, Dan, Thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Me take care of that is a grady block fascinating.
Just can't wait to dive into those pleadings. He just
can't anywhere in America. You can't be hiring based on race.
It's just fundamentally un American and crazy. And this guy
led the way he hit it right.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I have a.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
Dream my poor little children.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
One day live in a nation where they will not
be judged.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
By the color of masks skin, but by the content
of that character.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
I have a dream.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, it's all about Merrick, right, that was at the
core of Doctor King. So how now do you have
you know, the Joe Biden's and the John Hickenloopers and
the Michael Bennett's and the Jared Poulis's and the Al
Sharptons out there saying, oh no, it can't be about
Merit can't be about merit. It has to be about
(26:55):
what color you happen to be born?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Great text here to go to break with too, Dan
asking the Dems hired eighty seven thousand IRS agents, but
not enough air traffic controllers.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Right right, And this next one, Dan Selena Gomez needs
to be taken into custody and deported. She has renounced
her citizenship, which she never should have had. No listen, No,
I don't agree with any of that. Here's the point,
and that was the crying Sabrina Selena Gomez we played.
Speaker 6 (27:22):
I just want to say that I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Oh maybe I just love to get around and have
the conversation. Where does that come from? Okay, where does
that come from? Where does it come from, whether it's
Selena Gomez or John hicken Luberg, Jared Poulis and Mike
Johnston or any of them. Where you put the rights
of somebody who's not only here illegally but then is
committing other crimes, you put the protection of that person.
(27:48):
I had, of the safety of Americans. You put the
protection of that person I had, the safety of women,
I had, of the safety of everybody, including I had
of the safety of other people here at Lee Because
you got two different kinds of people here illegally, right,
You got those here illegally you shouldn't make, shouldn't have
come illegally, but they're here illegally, but they're not committing
any other crimes. And then you've got those here illegally
(28:11):
who are committing other crimes and often commit those other
crimes against other people here illegally.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
So is this.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
How can any thinking person say the thing she's thinking
and saying? It just shows you you don't care about
innocent victims. You put criminals committing criminal acts on a pedestal,
and you don't even care about people here illegally who
aren't committing other crimes. I mean, this is like utter madness.
You're on the Dan Kaplas Show.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
And now back to the Dankaplass Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Then understand Seleena Gomez brought to tears by the thought
of criminals people who have actually committed criminal offenses after
being illegally but separately committed criminal offenses, now being deported
brings her to tears. Remarkable, Why not the tears for
the innocent people who are the victims of these criminals.
(29:18):
But hey, I want to get onto this Philly crash.
I'm getting a bunch of text this one though, Dan,
I think we're winning too much, too fast for human
brains to keep up with. But then on the crash
with multiple textures saying, no, Dan, it's not a small plane,
et cetera. It's not a single engine plane. It's this
or that. The sourcing that I rely on in fast
(29:41):
breaking stories like this, and it's not perfect. I've just
found it to be probably the most reliable in quick
breaking stories are the local media. So here I go
to the Philadelphia and Choir, for example, and they're reporting,
they're quoting the governor, they're quoting Federman, et cetera. And
then the FAA reporting is two people on board. We
(30:03):
have texters saying two pilots, two doctors, one patient on board,
and air ambulance, and that may turn out to be true.
I'm not saying a Texter is wrong. I'm just saying
the reporting right now in the Philadelphia Enquirer is two
people on board and a lear Jet fifty five, which
(30:24):
CNN is describing as a mid size jet, and that
might explain the size of the fireball. When the initial
reporting was a small single engine aircraft, then my assumption
was the fireball was probably caused by whatever it's struck
on the ground. But if you've got a SCNN says
a mid size jet, then at that point and shortly
(30:44):
after takeoffs, so there's going to be a lot of
fuel on board, that might explain that the amount of
damage done on the ground. But at this point, at
least FAA is saying two people on board and at
this point jet confirmed as a lyric Jet fifty five
shortly takeoff. I don't know, it may turn out to
be confirmed later that it's an air ambulance with more people, etc.
(31:06):
But we'll keep you posted as we get news on
that tragedy we did have if you weren't with us.
Congressman gave Evans with us earlier so impressive as a
former black Hawk helicopter pilot in the military. As he provided,
he took us inside the cockpit of a black Hawk,
and he did a great job of explaining the very
(31:27):
limited vision available to those pilots because they'd have their
night vision goggles on as part of the training, and
so compared to you and me looking up, looking down,
looking sideways, they'd have a very very limited vision. He
described it as a tunnel like as you can picture
these two tunnels protruding from each eye on the night
vision goggles, and so very really helped understand that. So
(31:52):
obviously the question was, well, why are they wearing stuff
like that and why are they doing that kind of
training in the middle of three major airports. The Congressman
pointed out that no, that is done on purpose, because
these pilots have to have the highest level of airmanship,
and so they have to train under the most demanding conditions.
And the Congressman was making the point that so much
(32:13):
of this training goes on for so many years without
any kind of mishappen and he emphasized obviously that this
is a horrible tragedy, but it was just great to
have that perspective from inside the cockpit. Let's go to
the phone lines. Talk to Rosio. You're on the Dan
Kaplis show. Welcome Rosio. Well, long time, long talk.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
I like to say that this was coming long ago.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Remember in the nineteen nineties when they were talking about
doing the trophies.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
For everyone ordeal, Well, they enrolled that into the.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
DEI, and that's why we're seeing well people getting picked.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Fascinating point, Razio, and thank you for that. Listen, this
lowering of standards which is largely the fault of the
left in America, and I understand people tie it to
DEI conversation. Hey, we just had somebody on from Mountain
States Legal in a class action representing a thousand people
who are saying we were qualified to be air traffic
(33:20):
controllers and we didn't get the job because we were
white pursuing to Obama policies. So you know, those are
legitimate questions that have to be answered. This is America.
Nobody should be discriminated against in a job search because
of the color of their skin. But going beyond these
very important issues of racial discrimination, we have a lowering
(33:43):
of standards in America, and I believe the Left has
been primarily responsible for that in multiple different ways. We
need to be having that broader conversation because America has
always been about we prided ourselves on excellence. We prided
ourselves on being great and cutting edge, and whether we're
a janitor or whether we're a CEO, you know we are.
(34:06):
We're Americans. We're going to be the best, and the
Left in so many different ways has been tearing that
down because the left doesn't want America to be a
great country. Right here, listen to this. This is Barack Obama,
the same guy who's at issue and the Air Traffic
Controller lawsuit.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
No world order that elevates one nation or group of
people over another will succeed, No balance of power among
nations will hold.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So Obama said it to the United Nations. He didn't
want America to be better than any other nation. No,
we are, and that's who we were meant to be.
And so, whether it's through the mass legalization of drugs,
whether it's through all this other stuff the left's doing,
they've just been trying to make us mush lower our standards. No,
(34:54):
we're Americans. We've we've got cross party lines. We've got
to be elevating standards. Excellence has to be the again,
and so we'll talk some more Monday about how to
do that in other ways. Also, Ryan, thank you for
all your great work. Alexa. Great to have and always
so nice to see you. You are one tough Umbras.
Join us Monday on the Dan Kaplas Show.
This is Dan Caplis and welcome to today's online podcast edition
of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to give
us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,
and to subscribe, download and listen to the show every
single day on your favorite podcast platform. Our next guest
fighting very effectively for.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The American Way. Let's go straight to the VIP line.
Welcome Congressman Gabe Evans. Feels good to say that to
The Dan Caplis Show. Congressman, how are you doing good?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Very very well? Thank you for that, and hey, grateful
for the time. I know you are absolutely buried and
you're getting off to a very fast start there. But
having been a black Hawk helicopter pilot, I just know
you have invaluable insight into what you can see and
not see at night flying in a situation like this,
So anything you could share there would be appreciated.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Well, first of all, I mean, this is just an
absolute tragedy what happened out at Reagan National Airport in Washington,
and so our hearts go out to the friends, the family,
and of course the victims who perished in that accident.
You know, I spent almost ten years flying black Hawk
helicopters here in Colorado and overseas in the combat zone.
I was a black Hawk helicopter pilot and Command company commander,
(01:12):
air mission commander, and Aircrew Training Program commander. So I've
seen this from a few different perspectives and spent a
lot of time flying around, you know, in and amongst
a Denver's airspace, which is top five upmost busy airports
in the nation. And so, you know, as the news
started to come out about what happened, I had a
couple of thoughts to go through my head. First of all,
this is happening at nighttime under night vision goggles. Night
(01:35):
vision goggles is actually one of the most challenging modes
of flight for rotary wing aircrews. Right now, your normal
vision is about one hundred and thirty degrees top of autumn,
and from left to right it's about two hundred degrees.
Your field of view, your standard issue night vision goggles
are like looking through toilet paper tubes. It's about a
forty degree field of view, which means that even under
(01:57):
night vision goggles, your field of view is like less
than ten percent of what it is. I know right now,
with all of us just looking normally around and you
lose a little bit of depth perception also with the
night vision goggles. So in dense airspace like what's around
Reagan National Airport, even if that Blackhawk helicopter crew is
(02:18):
talking to air traffic control, which it sounds like it was,
and air traffic tells them, you know, be advised of
company traffic, it's entirely possible that that crewe just because
of the limitations of night vision technology, potentially misidentified which
aircraft they were being advised of.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Congressman gave Evans her guest. Now, Congressman, I assume they
need to be wearing these night vision goggles for training
purposes because it seems like a dangerous restriction in that
kind of busy airspace.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, so it sounds like what was happening is a
check ride. So to be a helicopter pilot for the
United States Army is years of work and training and
there is a long laundry list of tasks that you
have to be proficient and responding to. It's actually called
a CTL commander's task list. And when I was an
(03:12):
Aircrew Training Program commander, I was the officer that had
oversight of those commander task lists and everybody who flew
on my aircraft to make sure that they were meeting
all of those different criteria. All the way I make
sure somebody meets that criteria is once a year, they
have to sit down for a pretty exhaustive examination that
(03:32):
includes both oral knowledge written knowledge, and then you actually
have to go out and put it into practice flying
with an instructor pilot and show that you still have
the technical and tactical proficiency to be able to employ
the aircraft. So, if that's what's happening on this particular flight,
this is a It's one of the most complex missions
(03:55):
that there are, and it's designed to be complex because
this is the test that proves they're not you're capable
of effectively employing that aircraft.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wow. And at that point, Congressman, because obviously the pilot
and whoever's testing the pilot, they know their visions restricted.
Are they relying on air traffic control at that point?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
And so this is where this is where we're all
in on one team. When you're up in the air,
you know, we would brief this every time we took
off of once we get into the air. The only
thing that matters is physics, and so we all have
to work together as a team. Pilots, you're true chiefs
in the backseat, air traffic control other airmen who are
also flying and operating in that same airspace. And so
(04:39):
it's an incredibly complex system. And realistically, the United States
has done a fantastic job of managing all of the
things that could go wrong and all of the human
error that could intrude into a situation like that with
a program that's been around and refined really for the
last half half century called Crew Resource Management, and it
(05:02):
is a formalized training program that is designed to make
sure that pilot's, aircrew, air traffic controllers are all able
to work together, exchange mission critical information, conduct airspace surveillance,
and then check and crosscheck each other so that accidents
don't happen, even when you're operating in a dynamic, high risk,
rank structured environment. And so we really do have an
(05:25):
exceptional track record of safety in aviation. But even so,
it's still an incredibly complex environment to operate in, and
just a couple of seconds of loss of concentration or
focusing on the wrong thing still can unfortunately result in
these terrible tragedies.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Congressman Gabe Evans kind enough to be with us hee
a black Hawk helicopter pilot during his years of service
to the country. Now, sir, how fast would you guess
that helicopter was moving at the time.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
The typical cruising speed for a Blackhawk helicopter is one
hundred and twenty nine. We measure speed in knots air speed,
not as like one point two miles an hour, so
depending on your altitude, somewhere around one hundred and thirty
miles an hour. Now, I have not ever personally flown
in the Washington DC airspace and a black Hawk helicopter,
(06:17):
so it's possible that there could be air speed restrictions
when you're flying. It sounds like there's a rotary wing
corridor that follows the Potomac. It's possible that there is
an air speed restriction, But typically the Blackhawk helicopter is
operated between eighty and one hundred and twenty knots, so
ninety two one hundred and thirty one hundred and thirty
five miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And I don't know if you've seen the new angle
video that it new to us. You probably saw it before.
That's just being made public that appears to show the
helicopter flying straight at the plane. For I thought one
reporter said, twelve or thirteen seconds, have you seen that angle?
And if so, what do you make of that?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So I haven't seen that angle, And really there's what
initially pops to mind is, again, there are so many
different things that you have to monitor when you're flying.
The division of labor in the cockpit is typically one aircraft,
one pilot who's operating the aircraft. They're the ones whose
hands are on the control. They're controlling air speed, altitude, pitch,
(07:19):
yaw roll, all of the things that you're doing to
actually fly the aircraft. Then you have the non flying pilots,
so they're monitoring radios, they're monitoring airspace, they're thinking ahead
to whatever the next step is in the mission. And
then you have your back seaters, your crew chiefs, who
are continuing to provide a variety of other tasks, things
(07:40):
like airspace surveillance. If you're carrying a load, they're in
charge of the cargo. If you're in a combat situation,
they're in charge of the machine gun. So that whole
crew is working together to be able to operate that
aircraft and again under night vision goggles dense airspace, the
risk of what we call, you know, target fixation or
(08:03):
tunnel vision, focusing on one thing instead of being able
to maintain your scan and your situational awareness is something
that's an ever present risk. And not just for pilots.
You know, again, we're a team with air traffic control.
They can see a lot of the same things that
we see through what it's called a transponder, which allows
air traffic control to specifically and uniquely identify aircraft, be
(08:26):
able to see their altitude, be able to see their speed,
and so it really is a team to be able
to safely operate in the national airspace system.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
And my last two questions, you've been so generous with
your time, and you have this unique expertise, so we
want to try to tap it all. Speaking of air
traffic control at that point, to you, as a layman,
I would think that air traffic control would be screaming
at both of those pilots and would have some type
of process in place. And wouldn't there be an onboard
collision alert system on the Blackhawk as well as on
(09:00):
commercial airline So.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
That system is called t CAST Terminal Collision Avoidance system.
It's installed on all the airliners. It's required to be
the limitation with t casts, so t caass can see
all of these other transponders. To operate in the airspace
that's around these busy airport's Class B airspace, you are
required to have a transponder on and operating as an
(09:25):
airliner is coming in for landing. However, it's the aircraft
is facing an airport where there are of course lots
of other planes taking off and landing, and so the
sensitivity of TEA casts actually steps down because you know,
you don't need the system freaking out and telling you
there's a bunch of planes ahead. Well, yes, I know
that I'm going to land at the airport, so at
(09:48):
below about one thousand feet and then around five hundred feet.
There are designs in the TCAST system where it steps
down its sensitivity just so it's not blaring at the
pilots as they're executing this critical mode of flight, you know,
landing in an airport.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And thank you. That's really interesting and something I'd never
heard before. Final question, why would there be a black
cop training mission at night between these three major airports Dallas, Reagan, Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
We had to do that all the time here in
the Denver air space. Interesting, if you are going to
operate that aircraft, you know, for myself as a pilot
in command, once I take off, I mean you're almost
like a a ship's captain. You have a tremendous breadth
of authority to be able to do whatever it is
that you deem necessary to protect the lives of your
(10:41):
crew and respond to any emergencies or contingencies. And so
that just what we call airmanship, good decision making. That
airmanship is something that's evaluated. And so if you're going
to be operating in you know, the Denver metro area,
you're going to be operating in the Washington DC area,
you know, moving VIPs. That's a mission set that I've performed.
You have to be able to show your competence to
(11:04):
be able to perform in that environment. And there's really
no other alternative to evaluate your mission effectiveness other than
to actually go out and fly the mission.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Well, thank you so much, Congressman for sharing your expertise.
I've got to tell you, you know, I around a
lot of expert witnesses. I watch a lot of on TV, etc.
I've never heard anybody explain these things better than you
just did. So thank you for being here today and
look forward to the next conversation.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Well, I really appreciate it. Thanks for the time, and
again our hearts go out to the friends and the
families and the loved ones.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Amend that you take care, sir that his Congressman gave Evans,
who obviously has been a black Hawk helicopter pilot, appreciate
his expertise. You're on the Dan Kapla Show.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
And now back to the Dan Taplas Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
We usually come back with music. I don't know what
that was. Is there an industrial accident back there or
what something.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
That I'm interesting? You might say that it's the song
is called Helicopter.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Okay, see hey do they have an English version?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (12:04):
That was it? Oh it was that kind of an
English proto punk band. Gotcha, Kelly would hate this music.
So I'm glad alexis here right now.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It's I have been murdered. Well, and thank you Kelly
off today. Thank you Alexa for being here. Thank you
to Congressman Gabe Evans who joined us in the last segment.
And I was saying to the congressman. You know, I
work with a lot of great top experts from around
the country in my lawn job, and obviously watched these
experts on TV. These aviation guys, I've never heard better
(12:33):
than we just heard in that last segment with Gabe Evans,
who's an expert operating Black Hall helicopters. He's piloted them
for years, including here and overseas, and he just added
so much insight into you know, what it's like in
the cockpit, particularly in those kind of situations. So if
you get a chance, if you didn't hear it, go
back in the podcast, Texter Dan Wild. Gabe Evans is
(12:55):
a stud So glad you got elected. Great interview. Dan.
If the TCA system or whatever downgrades near airports, well
then we've got to keep army helicopters in night vision
goggles away. Someone said, common sense. I learned so much
in that interview, and what Congressman Evans was telling us
was that, you know, these warning systems, collision warning systems
(13:18):
are downgraded in sensitivity as you get closer to that
airport runway because there are so many other planes there
and they don't want the pilot being bombarded with these
warnings because the warnings are triggered by transponders on other aircraft.
So fascinating to know that. Not not very comforting, I
think for anybody, but fascinating to know that Dana plane
(13:39):
just hit them all in Philly. Text are correct. That's
what the headlines have been. Now we're seeing some headlines
saying near mall, some headlines saying further from all. Everybody's
saying a small plane. The fireball that's visible in the video.
Then if it's a small plane, single engine, small plane,
the big fireball, I'm guessing is because of what it hit.
(13:59):
You know, must have hit cars or something else with accelerant,
you know, with some type of fuel to have that
big of fireball. But apparently single engine, small plane and
having grown up Ryan, I mean literally just off the
end of the runway at Midway Airport in Chicago on
the southwest side. Plane crashes, not major commercial crashes, but
(14:20):
plane crashes just seemed like a fairly kind of routine thing,
normally small planes. But there was that one big commercial crash.
You would know this because you're like, you're like the
original AI but that crash south side of Chicago, bunch
of Watergate figures were on all right, Yeah, that was
on the flight path to our house. If that plane
(14:42):
had stayed in the air another second or two, it
would have been right there. But what year was that,
because yeah, that was the one big commercial crash in
our neighborhood.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
I remember there was a Northwest Airlines crash in Detroit
and only one little girl survived.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Everybody else died.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Her mother had covered her, her mother's charred body had
protected the little girl.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
And she lived. She's in her thirties now, maybe forties.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Man. We were so close to the end of the
runway that literally, if we were flying in, family would
come out on the back porch to wave.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
So I remember you remember when you tried to sit on.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
The right side of the plane because then you could
see our house down there.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Did you see Wayne's World the movie? I must have.
There's a there's this great scene.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
I think it's Chicago, Illinois, and Wayne and Garth are
literally right we were talking. They're on their car watching
the planes fly overhead. So but I know it's true
the question that I had, and I'm so glad that
you asked, and thank you for doing that. Dan was
so in Chicago. You've got o'haran Midway two airports. Yeah,
Detroit only has one. We're we're talking here, and I
(15:45):
just flew into Dullest to go to the inauguration. There
are three three major airports, all within striking distance triangulated
from one another, Dullest, Reagan in Baltimore, which isn't that
far away either, And Representative Evans underscored to us, Yeah,
you got to be able to fly black Hawk helicopter
under those conditions.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, I thought that was one of the really interesting
things he said. Everything was actually but that they, as
I understood him, they make it a point to go
out into those most challenging environments to train because you've
got to have that airmanship ability. And it is when
you think about it, Ryan, right, I mean, what happened
the other night completely preventable, cannot be allowed in America.
(16:25):
But the fact that we have all these aircraft in
the air all the time, and it's been how many
years now since we've had a major disaster now, way
too many near misses. Yeah, and obviously the system needs
to be upgraded, but almost a miracle that we don't
have more of this.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
But how much of this blame lies at the feet
of Pete Budha Judge, who was horribly unqualified for that
position Department of Transportation.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
We all know that, and he was a DEI hire himself.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
He was a mayor of South ben Indiana, had no
experience in the field. We had not enough air traffic controllers.
This is being widely reported. Then this is to blame
one person was doing two persons people's jobs. Feel very
bad for our air traffic controllers. But the question remains,
why were they turning away qualified white male applicants just
because they couldn't make diversity.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Highers, Which is as I'm sure you intended, the perfect
transition into our next guest, because this is a guest
you probably have not heard anywhere else. Grady Block Mountain
States Legal Foundation. They are not newcomers to this. They
have had a class action suit in the works for
a while representing I think over a thousand folks who
wanted to be air traffic controllers and say they were
(17:28):
denied because they're white. And so this lawsuit it's been
certified for class action status. Will get the details after
the break, but it comes down to this, right listen,
It may well be that the most qualified air traffic
controller in America. That one individual the pinnacle of the
profession may be black, maybe a woman, maybe Latino, maybe white,
maybe whatever. But the point being that when it comes
(17:50):
to that position, or any position, it should not be
based on race, as doctor King said, it should always
be based on merit. But clearly, and whether it's a
direct cause here or now, we don't know. We'll left
to find out over time. But clearly, the left, clearly
the left has been in many ways, many many ways,
including legalization of drugs, and we have no idea if
(18:12):
that was a factor here has been lowering the standards
in America, lowering the standards of competence, lowering the standards
of performance. That has to be replaced across the board.
You're on the Dan Kapla.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Show, you're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 6 (18:29):
I would say that I'm so sorry. Oh maybe people
are getting detect children. I don't understand. I'm so sorry.
I wish I could do something that it can I
(18:50):
don't know what to do. I'll try everything.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, Selena Gomez so deeply disturbed there. Well, one thing
she could do is be grateful that President Trump is
removing criminally legals, because criminally legals prey on everybody, including
other people here illegally. Hey, let's go to the VIP line. Here,
we've got Grady Block with us, very very important guests
(19:23):
from Mountain State's Legal Foundation on this lawsuit, which has
been important from day one, but now has taken on
this added importance in view of the horror the other
night in Washington, d C. Grady, Welcome to the Dan
Kapla Show.
Speaker 7 (19:38):
Hey, Dan, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, this to me, both as a lawyer, talk show host,
and American citizen, etc. Is so fascinating and important. Would
you please give people an overview of this class action
case pertaining to air traffic controllers and people who wanted
that job.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (19:58):
So, it's kind of an interesting case back to the
late Obama Biden administration. So we are representing nearly one
thousand members of this class that were discriminated against by
their race by that administration. And basically what happened is,
you know, they were wanting to be air traffic controllers.
They went to school, they did all the right things,
(20:20):
They graduated from a program that had nearly one hundred
percent success rate, and placement for being an air traffic controller.
And what happened was there was a class about a
thousand people and the Obama Biden administration looked at it
and said, you know, this looks a little bit too
white for us, so we're going to revise all the
metrics for getting into this. Instead of going with the
program that they used to do, they switched to a
(20:41):
different questionnaire that effectively gerrymandered the hiring pool. So these
thousand people that were representing were excluded because of this
new test that they implemented that essentially just discriminated people
against them for their race.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
It's so wait a second, you're telling me you've got
this pool of applicants generally considered qualified. It's where they'd
drawn from in the past, largely to fill these air
traffic control jobs. And that the is it the Obama
Biden administration that then came in and changed the game
because they didn't like the skin color of the applicants.
Speaker 7 (21:20):
That's exactly right. So this was back in twenty twelve,
twenty thirteen when all this happened. We actually filed the
suit in twenty fourteen, so this goes back quite a way.
It's been going on for quite some time, but that's
exactly what happened. They had a very qualified pool and
they didn't like the color of their skin, so they
changed the tests. Jerry mannered these people out of their
expected jobs, effectively ruining their lives. You know, there were
(21:42):
people that went to college, got degrees, took this test,
invested thousands of dollars based on this previous test, and
then they just had it all pulled out from under them.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Oh my lord, Well, it sounds like I haven't read
the pleatings, etc. But it sounds like an incredibly strong
case that that's taken on an added national importance. Right now,
what's the defense?
Speaker 7 (22:06):
So the defense is interesting right now? You know, the
main thing we're still in discoveries. We haven't actually gotten
to the true merits of the case. But the interesting
part right now is that in the late Biden administration
they had asserted privilege over about fourteen thousand documents and
basically trying to sweep the entire thing under the rug.
(22:26):
You know, there's been some settlement discussions, but nothing really
truly fruitful. But yeah, it's definitely coming to light now
for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well, and so right now it would be the current
administration that would be engaged in settlement discussions, right.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
And right, which is it's a very quickly moving target here,
because you know, the administration just got into office, so
you know, I'm not even sure if they were truly
aware of all this happening right now. They definitely are
now wow. But yeah, that's one thing that's really interesting
thing is you know the change in administration. You know,
(23:03):
President Trump could come in and order a very very
different course of action here than the Biden administration.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, right, and it would seem that he's very very
sympathetic to your cause. And I'm just trying to understand
how a defense in this case, But based on everything
you've told this Grady Block, our special guest from Mountain
States Legal Foundation, how any administration could ever try to
justify this, could ever try to justify hiring for any
(23:30):
position based on the criteria of skin color. It seems
the opposite of doctor King's core principle and American law.
But then beyond that, for this position, I mean, this
is like a heart surgeon, right, You've got to have
merit above all in that job.
Speaker 7 (23:47):
Yeah, absolutely, you're right, man. You know, this is something
that is clearly capable of creating very serious, dangerous situations,
you know, in a way at AA, sorry was playing
politics with public safety really here, and you know doctor
King said it. Justin's Clarence Thomas said it. The constitution
(24:07):
of boris classifications based on race, and that's exactly what
was happening here, and it's really unfortunate the situations that
it's causing.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Well, you guys do a lot of great work Mountain
States Legal Foundation. Can you tell folks a little bit
about it and if they want to support it, what
they can do.
Speaker 7 (24:23):
Yeah, absolutely so, Mountain States Legua Foundation. It's in Denver, Colorado.
We operate all over the West, but really all over
the country or a nonprofit public interest firm and pro bono,
which is one of the great things. Our clients love
our rates. So we do all sorts of law. You know,
we do free speech claims, we do Second Amendment work.
(24:45):
We've got a couple active waiting period cases in Colorado
and New Mexico right now. We do a lot of
natural protection work and we're very accessible via social media.
If you can also check out our website anytime at
MS legal dot org.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Well, I appreciate everything you guys do, and I'm going
to dive into the pleatings over the weekend. How do
I pronounce it? Bri I g I d A. Is
that brigit up? Brigita v dot bridget bridgidarly.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
It was a bit of a source of confusion early on,
but it's definitely bridget Okay. Yeah, the pleetings are fascinating ones.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, courage. Now I'm going to dive in and then
tweet them out, but would love to stay in touch
with you as this unfolds. I think it's important on
so many levels, and starting obviously now with making sure
we have the most competent people possible, you know, and
if that means every air traffic controller is a person
of color, or is a woman, or is white, or
is this or is that it just needs to be
(25:40):
the most qualified.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
Person, absolutely, Daniel hulf percent right. Really the important thing
here is safety, and that's I don't think anybody cares
about the race. People just want to be safe when
they're flying.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Amen to that. Well, Hey, thank you keep up the
great work and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
Yeah, thank you so much, Dan, Thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Me take care of that is a grady block fascinating.
Just can't wait to dive into those pleadings. He just
can't anywhere in America. You can't be hiring based on race.
It's just fundamentally un American and crazy. And this guy
led the way he hit it right.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I have a.
Speaker 5 (26:16):
Dream my poor little children.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
One day live in a nation where they will not
be judged.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
By the color of masks skin, but by the content
of that character.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
I have a dream.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, it's all about Merrick, right, that was at the
core of Doctor King. So how now do you have
you know, the Joe Biden's and the John Hickenloopers and
the Michael Bennett's and the Jared Poulis's and the Al
Sharptons out there saying, oh no, it can't be about
Merit can't be about merit. It has to be about
(26:55):
what color you happen to be born?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Great text here to go to break with too, Dan
asking the Dems hired eighty seven thousand IRS agents, but
not enough air traffic controllers.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Right right, And this next one, Dan Selena Gomez needs
to be taken into custody and deported. She has renounced
her citizenship, which she never should have had. No listen, No,
I don't agree with any of that. Here's the point,
and that was the crying Sabrina Selena Gomez we played.
Speaker 6 (27:22):
I just want to say that I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Oh maybe I just love to get around and have
the conversation. Where does that come from? Okay, where does
that come from? Where does it come from, whether it's
Selena Gomez or John hicken Luberg, Jared Poulis and Mike
Johnston or any of them. Where you put the rights
of somebody who's not only here illegally but then is
committing other crimes, you put the protection of that person.
(27:48):
I had, of the safety of Americans. You put the
protection of that person I had, the safety of women,
I had, of the safety of everybody, including I had
of the safety of other people here at Lee Because
you got two different kinds of people here illegally, right,
You got those here illegally you shouldn't make, shouldn't have
come illegally, but they're here illegally, but they're not committing
any other crimes. And then you've got those here illegally
(28:11):
who are committing other crimes and often commit those other
crimes against other people here illegally.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
So is this.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
How can any thinking person say the thing she's thinking
and saying? It just shows you you don't care about
innocent victims. You put criminals committing criminal acts on a pedestal,
and you don't even care about people here illegally who
aren't committing other crimes. I mean, this is like utter madness.
You're on the Dan Kaplas Show.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
And now back to the Dankaplass Show podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Then understand Seleena Gomez brought to tears by the thought
of criminals people who have actually committed criminal offenses after
being illegally but separately committed criminal offenses, now being deported
brings her to tears. Remarkable, Why not the tears for
the innocent people who are the victims of these criminals.
(29:18):
But hey, I want to get onto this Philly crash.
I'm getting a bunch of text this one though, Dan,
I think we're winning too much, too fast for human
brains to keep up with. But then on the crash
with multiple textures saying, no, Dan, it's not a small plane,
et cetera. It's not a single engine plane. It's this
or that. The sourcing that I rely on in fast
(29:41):
breaking stories like this, and it's not perfect. I've just
found it to be probably the most reliable in quick
breaking stories are the local media. So here I go
to the Philadelphia and Choir, for example, and they're reporting,
they're quoting the governor, they're quoting Federman, et cetera. And
then the FAA reporting is two people on board. We
(30:03):
have texters saying two pilots, two doctors, one patient on board,
and air ambulance, and that may turn out to be true.
I'm not saying a Texter is wrong. I'm just saying
the reporting right now in the Philadelphia Enquirer is two
people on board and a lear Jet fifty five, which
(30:24):
CNN is describing as a mid size jet, and that
might explain the size of the fireball. When the initial
reporting was a small single engine aircraft, then my assumption
was the fireball was probably caused by whatever it's struck
on the ground. But if you've got a SCNN says
a mid size jet, then at that point and shortly
(30:44):
after takeoffs, so there's going to be a lot of
fuel on board, that might explain that the amount of
damage done on the ground. But at this point, at
least FAA is saying two people on board and at
this point jet confirmed as a lyric Jet fifty five
shortly takeoff. I don't know, it may turn out to
be confirmed later that it's an air ambulance with more people, etc.
(31:06):
But we'll keep you posted as we get news on
that tragedy we did have if you weren't with us.
Congressman gave Evans with us earlier so impressive as a
former black Hawk helicopter pilot in the military. As he provided,
he took us inside the cockpit of a black Hawk,
and he did a great job of explaining the very
(31:27):
limited vision available to those pilots because they'd have their
night vision goggles on as part of the training, and
so compared to you and me looking up, looking down,
looking sideways, they'd have a very very limited vision. He
described it as a tunnel like as you can picture
these two tunnels protruding from each eye on the night
vision goggles, and so very really helped understand that. So
(31:52):
obviously the question was, well, why are they wearing stuff
like that and why are they doing that kind of
training in the middle of three major airports. The Congressman
pointed out that no, that is done on purpose, because
these pilots have to have the highest level of airmanship,
and so they have to train under the most demanding conditions.
And the Congressman was making the point that so much
(32:13):
of this training goes on for so many years without
any kind of mishappen and he emphasized obviously that this
is a horrible tragedy, but it was just great to
have that perspective from inside the cockpit. Let's go to
the phone lines. Talk to Rosio. You're on the Dan
Kaplis show. Welcome Rosio. Well, long time, long talk.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
I like to say that this was coming long ago.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Remember in the nineteen nineties when they were talking about
doing the trophies.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
For everyone ordeal, Well, they enrolled that into the.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
DEI, and that's why we're seeing well people getting picked.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Fascinating point, Razio, and thank you for that. Listen, this
lowering of standards which is largely the fault of the
left in America, and I understand people tie it to
DEI conversation. Hey, we just had somebody on from Mountain
States Legal in a class action representing a thousand people
who are saying we were qualified to be air traffic
(33:20):
controllers and we didn't get the job because we were
white pursuing to Obama policies. So you know, those are
legitimate questions that have to be answered. This is America.
Nobody should be discriminated against in a job search because
of the color of their skin. But going beyond these
very important issues of racial discrimination, we have a lowering
(33:43):
of standards in America, and I believe the Left has
been primarily responsible for that in multiple different ways. We
need to be having that broader conversation because America has
always been about we prided ourselves on excellence. We prided
ourselves on being great and cutting edge, and whether we're
a janitor or whether we're a CEO, you know we are.
(34:06):
We're Americans. We're going to be the best, and the
Left in so many different ways has been tearing that
down because the left doesn't want America to be a
great country. Right here, listen to this. This is Barack Obama,
the same guy who's at issue and the Air Traffic
Controller lawsuit.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
No world order that elevates one nation or group of
people over another will succeed, No balance of power among
nations will hold.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So Obama said it to the United Nations. He didn't
want America to be better than any other nation. No,
we are, and that's who we were meant to be.
And so, whether it's through the mass legalization of drugs,
whether it's through all this other stuff the left's doing,
they've just been trying to make us mush lower our standards. No,
(34:54):
we're Americans. We've we've got cross party lines. We've got
to be elevating standards. Excellence has to be the again,
and so we'll talk some more Monday about how to
do that in other ways. Also, Ryan, thank you for
all your great work. Alexa. Great to have and always
so nice to see you. You are one tough Umbras.
Join us Monday on the Dan Kaplas Show.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.