Jay’s Must-Listens: 4 Powerful Lessons to Reflect From This Year & Move Into the Next With Clarity & Inspiration ft. Dr. Orna & Novak Djokovic

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, Welcome back to my podcast channel. Thank you
so much for being here. If you haven't subscribed already,
make sure you do so that you never miss an episode. Now,
I want to ask you what moment changed you the
most this year? Where in your life did you grow
the most this year? Even if it didn't look like
growth at the time. What if the toughest moment of

(00:21):
your year was actually the moment preparing you for what's next.
The end of the year is always a time for reflection,
a time to look back at our journeys, our lessons,
and the growth we've experienced. Some moments challenged us, some
inspire us, and some remind us of the power of presence, courage,
and connection. In this special compilation, we revisit some of

(00:45):
the year's most powerful conversations on on purpose, deeply personal
stories from guests whose honesty, insight, and lived experiences offer
invaluable guidance as we move into twenty twenty six. The
perspective shared here are more than stories, their practical roadmaps

(01:05):
for how to grow, reset, and move intentionally into the
head Let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
The number one health and wellness.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Podcast, Jay Sheety Jay Shetty s Selena and Bennie take
us into the heart of their love story, sharing how vulnerability, patience,
and humor have shaped their relationship. What started as a
friendship between two young artists blossomed into love, reminding us

(01:33):
that connection grows through presence, laughter, and small acts of care.
I was saying that watching both your love story, and
I know you were saying Selena two seconds ago, you like,
this is such a safe and cozy space to come to.
I'm hoping that today we get to know your love
story on a deeper level and we get to access
really what's in your hearts and minds, because I think

(01:53):
there's so many interviews and so many things that kind
of will touch on the surface level of stuff, but
I hope we can go deeper. So what I want
to stay with this, I want to actually rewind, and
I want to rewind to a place where we don't
retell the story, but we get to relive your story
with you. And I think there's a difference because when
we tell a story, it's like this is what happened,
but when we relive it, it's almost like going back to

(02:14):
who we were when that happens. So I want to
go back to the first time you ever met. I
don't want to hear about it.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Well, the funny thing is is we actually it was
so long ago that we don't.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
Remind we know that her mother put us in a
meeting together.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
When how old were you? Sixt So she was sixteen.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Oh, I didn't realize it was that.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
And I'm like four or five years older than you.
So I was probably twenty twenty one. And her mom
was trying together into music. And her mom is amazing
the way she goes from room to room, gets on
the show, yeah, gets things to happen, and you know,
and somehow she got us a meeting together, and we

(02:59):
don't remember that. And you know, after we had done
songs together, there was one time where it was probably
two thousand and sixteen or seventeen or something. I remember
when you were in a studio like Interscope Suason, and
I remember I came in. She doesn't remember it, but
I remember I came in and I had this talk

(03:22):
with you, and I remember being like whoa, wow, Like
she is really like a complex person, like in a
good way, and I was like, wow, she's she's so deep.
And we had this conversation where I really I was
just really left by being like, oh, she's deep. And
then we went and thought nothing more of it. And

(03:43):
then when we did our song together, I remember leaving
not feeling romantic at all. I just remember leaving and
I was talking. You know, because when you're a pop
star like she is, and you're a huge entity and
you've done so many things in your life before, like

(04:03):
people set up all these walls before, so it's like
you get like like before I came in, they were like, well,
you know, this thing's like this, and this is like this,
and like she might not want to do that, and
like stuff, and they speak for people so much. And
then I remember we were so me and the director
were so nervous, and then the first second you like
disarmed everybody. And I remember walking back and Jake was like,

(04:26):
he's like the guy who directing with me. He's like,
it's gonna be so easy. What they made it seem
like she was this was gonna be this crazy thing,
and the warmth I felt from her in that moment.
I remember leaving being like, lastly, it's such a cool girl, she.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Remembers.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
I remember the video part, but it was interesting because yes,
I don't have a very good memory, but I just
remember the video shoot. I didn't see anything romantic or
really felt that. But I had a really good time.
And that was probably the first time after years of
doing music together and not together, that was the first

(05:06):
time I really got to hang out with him and
it was fun. I had a good time, and that
was that. And then how it kind of continued was
I was always cautious because I always wanted to make
sure that I did protect myself, so to be honest,
I didn't talk to him very often.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
I thought she hated it.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Really really, I.

Speaker 5 (05:28):
Knew that was going.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
I really did.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
I thought she didn't like. I would see her and
I would be like, does she not like me? Like,
and I like we weren't thinking about anything. I was like, wow,
she really like didn't talk to me. And I was
like I thought it was being nice, and like my
friends would be like no, no, And then like there
was another time I remember and.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
My friends were like, oh, yes, it's kind of weird, and.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
I was so far and there was like a few
times and I and I didn't know, and I was
just like, you know, I was like, that's okay.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
I thought I was being like polite by not.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
She didn't really engage.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Basically, we I was working on some music and we
went through some of the demos that we had in
single soon came up, which is ironic because it was
actually nowhere near where I was in my personal life.
But Benny happened to do the song.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
No, I didn't even do this song.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
It was like one of my guys, oh yeah, and
I like came to help out because I was like, oh,
I want their song to I was like, I don't
like the way this product, and let me just at
least help them.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I said.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
I was like, well, I'm not sure if it'll be
okay because I don't know if Selina likes me or something.
And then John Jannik, the you know, the president of Interscope.
He was like, well, why don't you just go into
the session. She usually doesn't have people in, but just
go in and like if there is something that you
feel is weird, like try to just smooth it over
and talk to her and get in. And I said, okay,
I'm going to go smooth it over. So I went in.

(06:56):
It was so funny. Right before I came, her engineer
told me, like Lee that she was like, oh, Benny's coming.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
And she was like, and here's her reasoning. I'm going
to defend myself. I get very nervous around the producers
watching me, saying, of course, it's just a very intimate
thing for me. I feel like I need to sound
a certain way or do whatever to make them happy.
And when I get to record just me and my

(07:22):
engineer and maybe someone I trust, I get more out
of the experience. So I just was thinking, Okay, well,
maybe he'll stay for ten minutes and we'll just talk
for a second. And ten minutes turned into like thirty.
Then he went to the other room and I finished recording,
and he stayed there and then yeah, this is too long.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay, so here.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
So from my perspective, here's what happened. I get in there,
I'm like, I'm like, I got a smooth this.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
I love this back and forth.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
I was like, I don't have this with anyone, Like
I was like, I want us to be chill, and
obviously ninety nine percent of it in my head.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
And I come in.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
We just started talking about life and her A and
R is there, one of my friends is there, and
we're just we're talking about life, and we start talking
about dating and I was like, yeah, you know, I
went out on this date blah blah blah. And then
I was talking to her and I said, oh my god,
I have so many good single guy friends. I was like,
we have dinners at the house all the time. You
should come over sometime. And I wasn't even thinking about anything,

(08:24):
and we're like talking about like our ideal date and
like this and that. I wanted to make sure she
did the line right, so I was like, oh, I'll
stay there to like make sure it's good after and
then so I did. We left, and then I didn't
have her cell phone number because she changed her number

(08:45):
a bunch, so like I like asked someone, I said, hey,
give me your cell phone number. I want to say, like,
you know thing and I wrote. I was like, oh
my god, you were And during that I when I
was with her, I was like, oh my god. I
was like, not only she's like really cool, I was
like I want I was like I want to be
like I was like, I want her to be like
in our friend group. And what couldn't even be thinking.

(09:06):
I was like, I want her to be in our
friend group. And I want to make sure this thing
smoothed out so the song figures out, goes well and everything.
So I said, let me just text her thank you
or whatever. And I was like, you know, you were
so sweet or something something like that, and then she
writes back, I guess we just were texting throughout the
day and she she told me she looked back at

(09:26):
our message. She said, somehow you started sending like selfies
where you looked really bad on perfect, like the worst one.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yes, which by the way, no girls should really or
anyone in their mind right mind to someone they would
have a crush on, do that. But we were talking
about ugly photos, like because I always say I take
the worst photos sometimes and he's like, oh, you said something,
and I sent him the worst pictures of me, like

(09:57):
since like in bed sick and then you know me
at weird photo shoots. Said now, looking back on it,
I'm I'm just thinking that's these are so weird.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
I don't know why I see in that moment or
not yet.

Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, oh you did, Okay, so that's what I had
no idea. So I had no idea, and somehow we
decide so.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Wait, why did you do that? If you liked Benny,
Why were you sending well?

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Because I didn't know that it was going to be
like maybe I thought it was just going to be
flirting and not really anything else. But I really started
to to just, I don't know, fall for us.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
So I didn't know any of this now. And then
we decide we're like we're I forget how it happens.
We're like, yeah, let's hang out. And I was like, oh,
my friend's having a birthday party tomorrow. I was like,
you just just come along, and I was like just
thinking friend stuff. And then so she comes to mine,
and I guess she thought the party was going to
be at my house, but I was like, oh. In

(10:56):
my head, I was like, oh, she'll just come over
and we can just like grab a drink first and
then go there, like like not thinking anything of it.
I was like, we'll just like grab a drink at
my friend's wine bar, it's on the way, and then
we'll go there. You were there and we were sitting
together and she said something like, well, you know, because
it's a date I wore blah blah, and I was like.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
And I was like, no, I said, if this was
a date, I definitely would have dressed like a nicer
and he just kind of looked at me and I
thought we were on a date.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
And I was like, we're on a date.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
And then and then we went and then we didn't
really talk about it. Who thought it was she thought
it was She thought.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
It was a date.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
I'm sorry, a nice man takes me out for a drink,
Crevis make it's a.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Date, I didn't know, but no one had lost each
other out yet.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
No, it was like, let's just hang out, like and
then we go to my friends, we go to this
tie restaurant, we go to jit Lada, and we're like
hanging out and there's a bunch of people there, and
then she all of a sudden like leaves and she
was like, I gotta go to I have a video.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Shoot really early in the morning.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
And I was like okay, And I was like but
I wasn't like because it wasn't a date to.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Me or anything.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
So I was like, okay, cool, and I stayed with
my friends and stuff. And then she texts me after
and I remember you being like, that was like one
of the most fun times I've had in a really
long time, Selina.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
So you technically asked Benny out on the first official day.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
She did.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
She did, like a walk us through, walk us through
that confidence, that that energy.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Because.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
That's the scary part. I think that's when I recognized
that I had some sort of feelings for him.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
The key takeaway here is that love thrives in authenticity.
Showing up even imperfectly allows deep connections to form. It's
not about creating the perfect story, It's about cherishing the
moments that truly matter. Emma shares how the smallest, most
ordinary moments can become profound. Teachers are paying attention to
what's unfolding right in front of us can reveal who

(12:49):
we're becoming, what we need, and what's ready to change.
It's a reminder that growth doesn't just happen in big milestones.
It happens in the quiet shifts and honest check ins
allow ourselves. I was going to ask you actual because
I want everyone to get up to date with where
you are now, Like what is what is your day
to day life look like? You just said, Like I
wake up in a shower and go on a walk,
Like what does your day to day life look like

(13:10):
right now? And what what makes what's it made of
and one of the things that you love and look
forward to.

Speaker 6 (13:16):
I recently started riding a bicycle, and yes I staid
riding bycle before my driving ban, but now it's particularly
for Titus. I also ride a bicycle for that reason.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
But that was mainstream news.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Oh my god.

Speaker 6 (13:32):
I was getting phone called like it's on the BBC,
It's on international worldwide news.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
I was like, my shame is everywhere.

Speaker 6 (13:41):
This is I mean what I say, I don't know.
I think in a funny way, what the sweetest result
of it was getting so many messes from being people
being like happened to me too. I feel you there's
is awful. It stucks, which was kind of nice in
a way. But yeah, do you need a left It's like,
actually yes, but I think again, it's funny. Like I

(14:04):
went from when you work on movies. I don't know
if people know this, but like they literally will not
ensure you to drive yourself to work. I've asked so
many times, you have to be driven. You have to
be driven. It's like not a choice, and especially because
they need you there, you know, down to the minute,
basically depending on what they have going on. And so
I went from basically only driving myself on weekends or

(14:25):
during holiday and then when I became student, driving myself
all the time, and yeah, I did not have the
experience or skills clearly which I now will and and do.
But I think again, this was one of these like
awkward transitions I made from kind of living this like
very very structured life to living a life where I

(14:47):
was like, Okay, I guess I'm going to get myself
to this place and I'm going to like do this
thing that I've basically not done since I was ten
years old. So it's been a discovery and a journey
that's been Yeah, I guess humbling, because on a movie set,
I'm able to do all of these like extremely complex
things stunt saying, dance, like do this thing, do that whatever,

(15:12):
And I'm like, yep, don't worry.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
About it, guys, no worries.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
I've got you.

Speaker 6 (15:15):
And then I get home and I'm like, okay, Emma,
you seem unable to remember keys, amy, able to like
keep yourself at thirty miles an hour in a thirty
mile speed limit, like you don't seem able to do
some pretty like basic life things. And it was definitely
kind of Yeah, I had days where I just wanted

(15:36):
to turn around to people and be like, I used
to be good at things. Okay, I used to be
really good at things. And I know it doesn't look
like that right now, but I used to I can
do things normally. So yeah, it's been uh, it's been humbling.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
I feel I feel like all of us. I feel
like all of us can relate to that though, really,
because doesn't everyone forget their keys, their wallet, doesn't know
where they are, like these are these are like serious
And by the way, I was, I think I was
three points away from losing my license before I moved
to the States.

Speaker 7 (16:07):
Thank you for that confession.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
I appreciate that so much because I was in the
States for I've been in the States now for nine years,
and I think it happened just but then all the
points get wiped off, and I think I'm now back
to six points. I spent two months in London a year, Okay,
I go back. I seem to very much better. Yeah, well,
I'm confessing to a lot of people.

Speaker 6 (16:29):
Actually, a lot of people have like taken it upon
themselves to come and confess to me, which I found
like very like very endearing and like really really appreciate it.
But no, I think, you know, I think something I've
been realizing is we most of us live in a
state of like, I'm just trying to kind of figure
it out and keep it together, And the only thing

(16:53):
that is different between us is people's willingness to be
honest about that, the degree to which they can admit
to actually I'm just like scrabbling around trying to keep
the reasons together, versus oh, yeah, I know, everything's amazing
and everything's incredible and I'm having the best day ever
and aren't you? And you know so I do love

(17:17):
the people who are just willing to be like, yeah,
it's it's not going so well today, I'm like, great, amazing,
what a good starting point? Like, I don't know, failure
as a starting point feels like I feel like attempting
things is so compelling, and of course success is wonderful.

Speaker 5 (17:37):
But I love to see.

Speaker 6 (17:38):
People who are like, I'm really bad at this, but
I'm going to try, Like I love you. That's everything
to me.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
That seems to be becoming harder and harder now, Like
that desire to attempt something that you be good at. Yeah,
because it's exposed, or because everyone will see it, or
because everyone will hear about it. Yeah, talking about attempting things,
I mean you're currently studying, right, You're learning?

Speaker 6 (18:00):
Yes, yes, Well, two things I want to say there
is I think in a way I was sort of
I mean, I'm someone who's always cared about vulnerability and authenticity,
but I think I was also forced into it to
a degree that that maybe even I wasn't ready for,
and that like I just started so young that like

(18:22):
I had to learn in public, I had to make
mistakes in public and say, oh, okay, now I've learned this,
and I had to be willing to go back and
be like, hmm, like there were some gaps here and
here's what I know now. And I think people's I
agree with you. I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to

(18:42):
learn in public and continuing to learn. I mean, I
think that's one of the reasons why I have gone
back to school and why I continue to do it,
is because I want to make sure that I have
things to say that are worth saying. And I think
you can only do that if you take a minute
sometimes and listen to some people who aren't you. You know,

(19:05):
like not just the sound of my own, my own
wonderful voice. So, yeah, it's been it's been great. And
I think also I needed to I wanted to be inspired.
I think being around my favorite piece has been being
around young people who still believe that the world is
malleable and things are changeable, and that like anything can

(19:26):
be done is such important energy. There's so much dystopian
fiction at the moment, and dystopian movies dark. It's so dark,
and I'm just like, what happened to thinking about the utopia?
What happened to like planning for the best case scenario?
Like where where did we lose?

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (19:48):
Vision, excitement, imagination, possibility. So I think it's been Yeah,
it's been wonderful to be around young people and just
to sit there and listen. Yeah, do you ever I
mean you clearly read so much. Do you have to
take yourself away to do it in order to feeble
to do it? Do you have to call it an

(20:09):
off time?

Speaker 8 (20:09):
Like?

Speaker 6 (20:09):
How are you still managing to study and learn? Because
that seems like it's important to you.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, you reminded me as you were talking of one
of my spiritual teachers, my monk teacher, who always said
to me, if you want to move three steps forward,
you have to go three steps deep first.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
WHOA.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
And what I've found often in my life is I'm
trying to go four steps forward and i haven't yet
gone four steps deep. And so it's almost like, I mean,
this is probably a terrible analogy, but maybe thinking of
the movie The Substance, I don't know if you watched it,
I got terrible. Let's read no, no, no, no, let's
forget about it. But it's that idea of like every

(20:45):
extra step you take when you haven't learned, and you
haven't experimented, and you haven't attempted, is taking away from
your ability to move forward. And sometimes I think when
we feel stuck, or when we think things are not
moving or they're not progressing, you may be a signed
to say, well, pause and go deeper for a second,
or pause and go inward for a second. And so

(21:06):
to me hearing that from you, I find that and
I definitely fail at this all the time. There are
so many times I'm trying to push more forward than
I've gone deep. And so whenever I notice there myself
and I notice that I'm just kind of trying everything
and nothing is working. It's actually just the universe and
self saying to me, go read, go study. And so

(21:29):
I've found that I've had to really carve out time
to make time to do what I love, which is
to read and study. But I've found that I'm someone
who doesn't love thirty minutes a day. I'm not that
kind of a reader. I'm someone who needs to read
for three or four hours, if not more. And so
I found that carving out deep, immersive time is more
important to me than this kind of mechanical thirty forty

(21:52):
minutes a day, which is great for you if that
works for you as a habit, it doesn't for me
because I'm a bit of an extremist and I just
need to spend a whole week reading, yeah, as opposed
to you know, I don't need to read every day.
So I'll try, and I try once a month on
a weekend to just absorb into a subject that I love,
and I'll take a course, I'll go to a class,

(22:13):
I'll watch a Ted talk online, I'll read as many
books as I can, and I try and immerse myself
that way. What's your learning stuff?

Speaker 6 (22:20):
I'm the same as you, and actually someone who I
really respect and ask for advice for often, and I
ask for feedback on myself. He said to me, Emma,
I think if you did ninety percent of what you
wanted to do at fifty percent of the speed, you
would get so much more, Like life would be so

(22:41):
much better. And I was like, wow, fifty percent of
the speed and only ninety percent of what I want
to do. And he was like, I think that's the
minimum to be honest, and I was like, wow, but
I think, yeah, for what you said resonates. I think
I often have to remind myself that it's about speedily
getting somewhere. It's just not the point. Things are supposed

(23:03):
to happen with a certain timing.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
The key takeaway here is that life's transitions, even the
awkward or challenging ones, are opportunities to grow. Struggle doesn't
diminish our past achievements, It humanizes us. Being honest about
where we are and embracing failure as a starting point
creates space for real learning, authenticity, and resilience. Want to

(23:33):
make a real difference this giving season This December on
Purpose is part of Pods Fight Poverty podcast, teaming up
to lift three villages in Rwanda out of extreme poverty.
We're doing it through give Directly, which sends cash straight
to families so they can choose what they need most.
Donate at GiveDirectly dot org, forward slash on purpose. First

(23:57):
time gifts are matched, doubling your impact. Our goal is
one million dollars by year's end, enough to lift seven
hundred families out of poverty. Join us at GiveDirectly dot org,
forward slash on purpose. Cardib opens up about the difficult

(24:24):
chapters she has walked through in her life, career pressures,
relationship struggles, and the loneliness that followed. If you've ever
been in a season that felt heavy or impossible to
move through, her story shows how accountability, reflection, and time
can help you rebuild and grow. Talk to me about
the depression. For you, as confident as you are, as

(24:46):
bold as you are, to be so vulnerable and I'm
so sorry you went through that, but to be so
honest and open about the fact that a year ago
you were in this dark depression and it seems like
the worst it had ever been. What got you there?
Why are you feeling your love?

Speaker 9 (25:02):
It was just a lot of pressure from my career.
And I also felt like my marriage, like I felt
the love dying from May end, from from from May end,
from his end. I was very lonely because I chose

(25:23):
to be lonely, choose to be lonely. I was saying, like,
you know what, I can't go through this anymore. I
have to put a stop to it. But when I
said I was gonna put a stop to it, because
you could say you're gonna put a put a stop
to it, and you could. You could go a month
without being around somebody, it's not it's not until you
It's not when you say so, it's when your heart

(25:47):
say so. I kept telling myself, I will not contact
this person for a month. I will not give in.
I will not forgive this easy. I will not go back,
I will not go to the patterns. I will not
go through it. But I was crying every day. I
was hurt every day I was out here in la
and imagined by myself. I was thinking about it every

(26:09):
single day. And when your heart is not done, your
heart is not done. Then I told myself, I'm pregnant.
I'm going to accept the I'm gonna accept my flaws,

(26:34):
the flaws that I bring in this marriage, I'm gonna
apologize for it and I'm gonna work on it. And
when I take accountability and you take advantage of me
taking accountability and you take that as a see, I
know she'd be back instead of me taking accountability and

(26:55):
you taken advantage of that, it really just killed everything.
And while it was dying, I had a human growing
in me and I just had and I just kept thinking,
like It's like, what was life going to be without
this person? What life going to be without raising my

(27:17):
last child, without this person's life going to be with
that person not being my friend anymore, without nothing. When
you have those type of thoughts, it would make you sad,
It will get you depressed, it will have you lost.
But I overcame that and I am the strongest that

(27:40):
like I have ever been. Like I almost feel like
when was I ever my strongest. I felt my strongest
when I was twenty two, twenty three, twenty four. That's
when I feel like my strongest. And I was like
living in a power. And that's how I feel right now,
Like I feel like I live in a power. And
it took months for the heart to say you're done

(28:05):
instead of my mouth and my brain my heart had
to be like you're done, because you could say it
and you could take actions. But even if you take actions,
if you're not done, you're not done. Like I kept asking,
like around that time, I was working with Shakiro, and
I was like, how did you over overcame this?

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Like?

Speaker 9 (28:23):
How did you overcame this? And it's like it's going
to happen and it's like it will never happen, And
it happened. It took some crying, it took some thoughts,
scary thoughts. What I'm here, Yeah, I'm here, and I'm
the strongest I've been and I'm.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Just I love it that m.

Speaker 5 (28:50):
But it was hard.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
I can tell. I could tell. I could see it
as I'm speaking to you. It's it's not easy. And
I think those moments in all of our lives are
the most difficult moment. What did you do for your
mental health at that time? What did you do? What
actions did you take? What did you have to do
to keep yourself together and come back the strongest you
are right now? I think there are so many people

(29:11):
who are listening who've probably been through similar things, who
feel broken, feel hurt, feel lost, and confused. What works
for you that helped you come back the strongest you've
ever been. I don't know.

Speaker 9 (29:23):
If it was just time, because I kind of did
a little bit of everything, Like I did do therapy.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
At this at this or therapist. She's really good. By
the way.

Speaker 9 (29:36):
It was like on Zoom and it was like I
was telling myself, Like I was like, I can't believe
I'm telling a whole stranger my feelings, my thoughts, my
personal business for three hours straight. What then am I doing?

(29:56):
That just feels so weird. I was in I did
therapy for I did a couple accessions.

Speaker 5 (30:04):
They ain't gave me, no nothing.

Speaker 9 (30:07):
I was on Spring all summer recording. It just wasn't
like enough. I just felt like I just had to
let it die on its own. Let things die on
its own. And the bad thing about it is that
it's like now only am I dealing with that? That's
my personal life. I was also dealing with fans putting

(30:29):
pressure on me because they want, you know, they want
an album, they want products from me. I had people
that don't like me talking down on me, and then
I had peers trying to start problems with me, and
all of that while I was going through a mental
sking breakdown at home.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
So it was just a lot.

Speaker 9 (30:51):
It was like, I'm trying to work it, I'm trying.

Speaker 10 (30:55):
To sleep it.

Speaker 9 (30:57):
After I gave birth to my daughter, my baby girl,
I was just like, Okay, take a break from work,
and I was just going out every weekend with my friends.
It was scary talking to somebody else and giving them
a little piece of me that just out my heart,

(31:20):
just a little piece of me.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
And but.

Speaker 9 (31:28):
I overcame that and I just that's why I feel
like I just became a little bit more better, like
just resetting.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, it's a good it's a good reminder that time
is the ultimate reset and time does have a healing
power that we you know, the cliche of time heals
or wounds, but it's the truth that it is true.
It's a cliche because there's truth in it. Yeah, there's
some reality in it that time and distance and and
being patient enough I was. I was working with a

(31:59):
client recently who was going through a breakup, and when
we would speak in the first month, she would tell
me every single day that she couldn't stop thinking about
the guy she was breaking up with. That broke up
with her, and then the second month she'd tell me
every other day, and then the third month she tell

(32:21):
me once a week. Yeah, And then the fourth month
she was just telling me once a month, and I
was like, you don't see it, but I see, yeah,
that it's affecting you less and less and less as
time goes on. But when it's you, you feel like
you're just still stuck there. And so it's such a
great reminder that time is the ultimate reset and time
does heal.

Speaker 9 (32:39):
And just because time heal, like in the meantime, don't
think that you shouldn't like try to get help because
it's like therapy didn't really.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Help me, like that I didn't work for you.

Speaker 5 (32:52):
Not as much.

Speaker 9 (32:53):
Well maybe because maybe because I didn't get to the
part of where you get the help.

Speaker 5 (33:00):
I mean I did do this.

Speaker 9 (33:01):
Like six sessions.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
I don't know how.

Speaker 9 (33:06):
Like sometimes when I give advice to girls, I'd be like, bitch,
boss up, boss up, go to word, get pretty. But
even when I was doing that, I had like a
pain in my heart. And sometimes when I was going
out with my friends and I was having a good time,
it will always be like around four thirty am when
it's time to go home, and I'm drunk and I'm

(33:29):
thinking to myself.

Speaker 5 (33:31):
I am alone.

Speaker 9 (33:33):
I don't have nobody to talk to, and it feels
really weird and it feels very lonely, especially when you're
used to that. However, don't don't avoid that. Don't like,
don't avoid that. But it will be time that will
heal it. It will be time. Time just heals everything.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
When you said again last week, you were saying, when
you put new music out, it was kind of the
lowest you'd felt in another year. What's the hardest part
for you to take that criticism? Because, like you said,
you're quick with it, You've got responses, You've lived in
a place where you had people coming at you. Why
is it so hard to put out something you love?
It seems like you've really put your heart into your work. Yeah,

(34:18):
and so when you put that out, is that why
the criticism hurts the most? Because you put so much
heart and soul into your work.

Speaker 9 (34:25):
Yes, because I put it like a lot. I always
I don't like what like. I'm not a lazy person,
and I do understand my flaws. Well, it's not really
my flaws because a lot of people who say something
about my accent, right, But it's funny because my accent,
to some people, might be my flaw, but it's also
my superpower and what makes me unique. Some people say

(34:48):
that I have a Spanish a Spanish accent, but I
really don't really have a Spanish accent. I have a
very unique accent. I talk very unique. When you try
your best to like perfect your accent, perfect your flows,
perfect everything. I always trying to perfect everything that I'm
doing at the time. I always trying to perfect it.

(35:09):
Like even when I was a stripper, I just like, Okay,
I'm a stripper, but I'm gonna be the best pull
dancer in here, and I'm gonna fucking bust my ass,
bust my knees, get practice every day and to be
the best at it. That's the same with music. I'm
gonna perfect it. That's the same with my marketing, I'm

(35:31):
gonna perfect it. That's the same with my business. I'm
gonna perfect it. I like to perfect things, and if
it's not the best things, if I'm not the best
at it, I could say that I try to be
and I work my ass off to be and I
didn't make it easy for myself. So when people just
throw it in your face and then make other narratives

(35:53):
on top of it with that, it's like, that is
so mean, And it's also like different narratives of you,
like I say, Wow, you don't even know me. You
don't even know me, and you're making all these story
scenarios or this diss over one song.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
The key takeaway here is that time is one of
the greatest healers. Growth often comes through discomfort, and while
therapy and external support absolutely help, the ultimate reset is patience,
self awareness, and persistence. Difficult chapters can lead to profound
transformation if we let them. Next up, Madonna discusses the

(36:32):
role of spirituality in navigating life's ups and downs. Her
spiritual practice has been a guiding force throughout her life,
helping us stay driven, aware, and intentional. She emphasizes the
importance of reflection and taking space for yourself, especially in
a world increasingly dominated by work and digital distractions. What's

(36:53):
your intention for being here today? Why now? Why today?

Speaker 11 (36:56):
Well, in the past, I've usually done interviews to promote
my work, whether that's music or a tour or film,
But today I would like to talk about my spiritual life.
And the spiritual path that I've been on for over
twenty eight years. This wisdom has helped me navigate them

(37:21):
the ups and downs of life. For lack of a
better expression, people ask me a lot through the years,
like what is the reason you're still saying? What is
the reason you keep going? Why have you not fallen
by the wayside like other people? Definitely a lot of
my peers who who are no longer with us like,

(37:41):
what would you say is the key? And I would
say that is my spiritual life. I absolutely would not
be where I am or who I am if I
did not have that. It's helped me enormously, as I said,
navigate the ups and downs of life.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
I feel like I would like to share that with people.

Speaker 11 (38:05):
So that's really the point of I'm not here to
promote a product or I don't want anyone to buy anything.
I just I want to share something with people that
has pretty much saved my life.

Speaker 5 (38:20):
It sounds dramatic, but it's true.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, it seems like it's something that's extremely meaningful to
you and a deep part of your life that often
I feel you don't get to share in other spaces.
So even though it's been a part of your life
for nearly three decades. Maybe you haven't shared parts of
it before. What would your life look like if you
didn't find it.

Speaker 5 (38:42):
I would believe that the physical world is all there is.

Speaker 11 (38:45):
I would believe all the illusions, and that would be
my downfall, and that is most people's downfall.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
What does spirituality mean to you? Because I think that
word itself means so many things to so many people.

Speaker 11 (38:56):
Yes, I mean a spiritual life or a spiritual path
could could be mean a lot of things.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
I know that you have a spiritual path, and.

Speaker 11 (39:07):
For me, it's not really about like who's is the
best or you know, it's whatever works for you. I've
been studying Kabbala for twenty nine years, so since nineteen
ninety six. Yeah, it's a long time.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
It's a long time, and.

Speaker 5 (39:24):
I'm not a frivolous person.

Speaker 11 (39:25):
I don't suffer fools gladly if something if I think
there's something false about it or corrupt or not authentic,
I wouldn't have stuck around for so long. I've had
the same teacher for all this time. I feel like,
almost like it's my responsibility to share with people because

(39:46):
I feel like I feel like people need guidance, people
need enlightenment, And for me, a spiritual life is having
an internal life because you know this, I'm sure you know.
If we get caught up in the belief system that
our value in the world is based on people loving

(40:10):
us or other people's approval or how much money you have,
or how many fabulous outfits you have or how many
follows you have on Instagram, those things don't make us happy.
Those things don't bring us peace. So having an internal
life and being able to look internally and having some
kind of practice, whatever that might look like, your prayer,

(40:32):
your meditations, that the time you take out of every
day to.

Speaker 5 (40:36):
Stop and take stock and contemplate.

Speaker 11 (40:41):
We live in a very busy, chaotic world, lots of noise,
lots of distraction. I mean, how many times have you
heard people say, oh, you know, social media and like
all the you know, people can't walk down the street
without listening to music. Everybody has to be visually stimulated.

Speaker 5 (40:58):
All the time. Like there's no there's no quiet.

Speaker 11 (41:01):
We're not comfortable being quiet with ourselves and looking inward
and asking ourselves, why am I here or what am
I doing?

Speaker 5 (41:12):
Or what is my intention?

Speaker 11 (41:13):
In a specific choice I'm making right now, whether it's
about my work or the way I'm raising my children,
decisions that I make about everything, Really, I have to
ask myself. And if you don't have a spiritual life,
you're never going to stop and ask any questions. You're
just going to plow through life. And if you just
and you're going to see everything that happens to you

(41:35):
as just a random event. And I don't believe that
anything is random. I think everything that happens to us
is meant to happen to us to teach us some
kind of a lesson. But the question is, are you
aware enough, are you awake enough? Are you interested enough
to find out what that reason is?

Speaker 8 (41:56):
Like?

Speaker 5 (41:56):
Why did this happen to me? What is my lesson?

Speaker 11 (41:59):
I don't want to go through your life seeing everything
that happens to me is random. But I also don't
want to go through life as a victim. And I've
had a pretty challenging life, and it's easy to fall
into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or like
being a victim, or you know, why why isn't this
happening to other people? Why is it happening to me?
Why don't I have what that person has. I'm sure

(42:21):
you know the expression comparison is the killer of joy.
So you know, it's like, you got to get out
of that game.

Speaker 5 (42:27):
You have to have a spiritual life. You just have to.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
You're reminding me of something beautiful that I came across
called the third space theory. Have you heard of it.
It's this idea that as humans around fifty years ago,
we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home,
and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church,
a community center, or a third space. And the point

(42:55):
of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying,
was a place that you could look back at work
and home and you could reflect on your life, you
could take stock, you could introspect. But as time's gone on,
what's happened is we lost that third space. We stopped
going to temple, church, community, whatever place of self reflection,
a place of self reflection, and we ended up with

(43:17):
working home, and then after the pandemic, we lost work,
and so now we're in one space and we don't
have a different vantage point to where we are anymore,
which is what I think you're saying, go.

Speaker 11 (43:29):
Back on even one more step that to me is
like a prison. Get if you get. If you remove
the spiritual life, spiritual practice, you remove the workplace, then you're.

Speaker 5 (43:41):
In the home and then removed once more from home.

Speaker 11 (43:44):
Is you're looking at your phone, which is even takes
you out of home.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
It's a great point.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
Yeah, so yeah, where are you You're aware.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
We're living in the virtual world. Yeah, we're living in
the virtual world, not even in the material world, which is.

Speaker 11 (43:59):
Yes, but in virtual virtual world is not a bad world.
But if you don't have consciousness, there's really no point
to living.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, it's yeah. So it's interesting to think about that
because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea
that if we all had we need physical spaces to
sometimes make us do internal things.

Speaker 11 (44:19):
Yes, I mean some kind of ritualistic behavior has to happen.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued what I'm curious?
What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been
so supportive and emblematic of your journey, that have kept
you going at the times, As you said, there were
so many times you could give up, or things could
go wrong, or you kept pushing and they kept you locked.
What were they what are they?

Speaker 11 (44:44):
Well, one really important thing is studying, making time every
week to sit down and study. I mean, you can
study the Bible, you can study the poetry of Cahil Gibra,
or you can study the Vedas you you know.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
And you did that right. You actually studied different traditions.

Speaker 11 (45:06):
And I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabala,
I was looking for answers.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
And why do you think that was? Why were you
looking for answers?

Speaker 11 (45:15):
Because I had everything that people would assume would give
you happiness. I had successful career, I had fame, fortune,
monetary things, physical things. But I wasn't happy, and I
naturally sought out well. When I was a dancer, I

(45:37):
had a roommate. She was a Buddhist, and she would
get up and chant every day, and so I was
very intrigued by that, Like nothing bothered her, you know
what I mean, Everything bothers me, everything bothers me. I'm
you know, I'm a Leo, I'm Italian. I'm very dramatic.

(46:00):
I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but
I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness
that everything was happening for a reason she never got
upset about things. And this is in the beginning of
my career when I was living in New York and
I was broke and a lot of crazy things happened
to me. It's really scary, traumatic things. And I would

(46:22):
always ask her her name is Marianne. I would always
say what, like, why are you like never upset? So
I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't
speak to me. And then later on I started practicing
yoga Ashtanga yoga and my teacher, Eddie Stern, he still
has a you know Eddie, Yeah, he's amazing. I got

(46:43):
quite caught up in and competitive about like first series,
second series, third series. But one thing I noticed is
that a lot of people would come into his practice,
his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do
the posts. They would just go and sit in front
of the statue of ganesh candles or prayer. And I realized,
and Eddie pointed it out to me because sometimes I

(47:05):
would have injuries, I would or I would be traveling
and I couldn't practice yoga and he say, look are
you breathing And I'd say yes, and he said, you're
practicing yoga.

Speaker 5 (47:15):
So I realized that I.

Speaker 11 (47:16):
Was too still, too caught up in the physical poses.
He's like, no, you don't understand. You're missing the whole point.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
The poses are just.

Speaker 11 (47:26):
Something that you do to breathe through, to calm your
nervous system down, and to bring you back to your center.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
And that really spoke to me. There was a big now.

Speaker 8 (47:40):
It was a.

Speaker 11 (47:41):
Painting on the wall of the yoga studio. It says
desire and detachment. And I said, what does that mean?
And he said, well, of course we want. We want
all the beautiful things in life. We want all the pleasures,
we want all the happiness, we want every we want
it all. There's nothing wrong with that which can't be
attached to it, because then if you're attached to it
and you don't have it, what's going to happen to you?

Speaker 1 (48:03):
The key takeaway here is that cultivating an internal life
through spirituality, reflection, or mindful practice anchors us amidst life's chaos.
Understanding our experiences as lessons rather than random events, allows growth, purpose,
and resilience. Doctor Owner masterfully explores the dynamics of narcissism

(48:24):
and relationships, showing how our interactions often reflect deeper patterns
within ourselves. She reminds us to look beyond surface labels
and understand the real drivers of our behavior and choices
in relationships. Everyone feels like they've dated and narcissists. How
accurate are they?

Speaker 10 (48:43):
One hundred percent accurate? Because we all have parts of
ourselves that are narcissistically oriented, meaning there to protect our
sense of self. Some people move more to the extreme
and they're really like deeply wounded and have to spend
a lot of energy protecting themselves and working around their ego.

(49:05):
But most of us, in certain situations were provoked to
behave in more narcissistic ways, and when we're offered other conditions,
we can be more open and interested in the world.
So it's usually the way it's used in pop language.
It's usually just like a word that covers up a

(49:27):
whole other world of things. I think when people talk
about I've dated a narcissist, they're like, that person didn't
give me enough attention, And what's that about? That there
could be so much there, like what went on between
the two of you? Why what happened? Where were you

(49:48):
in that It doesn't tell you much.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, I'm so happy to hear that, because I do
think that the word is relief. And it's not that
it's wrong, it's just that don't stop unpacking it there. Yeah,
so those words are really helpful for you to categorize,
summarize your experience. But don't feel that that's the end
of the investigations, Like there's so much more exactly, and

(50:12):
you're actually doing yourself a disservice.

Speaker 10 (50:14):
Yeah, And the moment you're thinking about I found a
word that finds all the problem outside of me. You're
deluding yourself.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
When you find couples coming with financial issues, Is it
really about money?

Speaker 10 (50:28):
Money is a big issue for people. Money is a
big issue for people. You know, the question of money.
One of the questions that that couples deal with when
they're fighting or debating about money is the deep question
of mine versus ours? What's mine? And what are we sharing?

(50:51):
And the most concrete version of it is money. But
it's everything. It's time, it's attention, it's airtime, it's said,
it's so much is like mine versus ours? But money
is like, especially in our culture, money is like the
most concrete way to talk about it and to fight
about it, Like if you're making more money than your

(51:14):
spouse or than your partner who pays for dinner, Like,
what's the vibe between the two of you? Is it
shared money or is it no, we're still going Dutch? Right,
Fights about money are about the concreteness of money, but
they're also about where do I begin an end and

(51:34):
what's us together? And then there's a whole other thing
with money, which is money is also something to do
with our relationship with reality. Right, I mean back to
the idea of someone hiding a suitcase with bills, unpaid
bills under the bed, Like how realistic is your relationship

(51:56):
with reality, with what you have, with what you're making. Like,
when people talk about money, they're talking about reality in
certain ways. I usually ask people, how do you think
money should play out between the two of you? If
you're making more money than your partner, what is your
ideology on this? What do you really think should happen?

(52:18):
Does that give you more power? Does that mean you
should be making more of the decisions. Does that mean
your partner should be paying for less? How do you
think about it?

Speaker 5 (52:29):
Each of you?

Speaker 10 (52:30):
Just what's your basic ideology? Which is hard for people
to acknowledge.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Right.

Speaker 10 (52:35):
They want to feel like no, money doesn't matter, but
it matters to everyone in some way or another. They
have an ideology, so are they willing to put it
on the table to be honest with how they think
about it? And then once you compare these ideologies, then
we can have a discussion. It's back to the idea
of like the couple creating their political backdrop. What is

(53:00):
the politics of this relationship? Are you like socialist or
are you capitalist? Are you what's your economics?

Speaker 1 (53:09):
If we vote differently, you probably.

Speaker 10 (53:12):
Will disagree on some level. You will somewhere you will disagree,
and then it's going to get interesting. It's going to
be like a congress, like right, debating what's the right
way to do it? But it's better to have that
debate on the table rather than acted out in those
like what was that film?

Speaker 2 (53:29):
There was that?

Speaker 10 (53:30):
Oh my god, it's a film in which there's a shipwreck.
There's this couple that are sitting at the dinner table
and they're looking at each other like who's going to
pull out the credit card? Brilliant scene. Everything about their
relationship was in that scene with her kind of pretending
she lost her card, okay, and him, but reluctantly pulling

(53:55):
out his credit card and then there was It was
just perfect.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
I was thinking of the movie Got fair Play. I
did you see that.

Speaker 10 (54:02):
I heard about it.

Speaker 5 (54:03):
I didn't see it.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
I think you I don't know if you'd enjoy it.
I don't know your taste of movies, but I think
it's really interesting. It's a story but where it's a
movie made about a couple who are competing for the
same job because they work at the same company. But
it's really dark and it really goes into that the
psychology of competition, gender, roles, the pay gap, everything comes

(54:26):
to play and it shows how it affects them from
the bedroom to the boardroom to everywhere else. It's really
well done. Yeah, it's really well done. It just it
just shows you what's going on inside of our heads
that doesn't often come out, and and just how we
all feel. And it's so interesting how society and all

(54:48):
of this has such a play on how we feel
about our role and who we are. Today, we have
so many more people to look at and view and
see how their lives are going. I had a friend
who his girlfriend made more money than him, and he
did really well for himself, but she made more money
than him, so but she expected him to pay for everything,

(55:10):
and she wanted him not only to pay for dinners
and rent, and she wanted him to buy her a
car because she believed that because he's a man, because
he's the man, that's how she should be treated. You know,
that was for her.

Speaker 10 (55:24):
Imagine them having a conversation. They ended up breaking up,
but what would their conversation sound like?

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Literally this, I did know this. I'm a queen, I'm
a princess. I'm like this hour should be treated like this.

Speaker 10 (55:39):
You think she said something like that.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
She said stuff like this. Yeah, wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 10 (55:44):
Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
And you see a lot of this language on TikTok
and things like that about what a high value man is,
what a high value woman is, and a lot of
the language and vocabulary out there. What is it?

Speaker 10 (55:55):
What is meant by a high value man?

Speaker 1 (55:57):
I mean, there's lots of different definition, but generally it's
someone who does has a good career, makes a lot
of money, does well for themselves. And you know that
the obvious definition of.

Speaker 10 (56:07):
It, Well it's not obvious.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah no, but yeah, but it's just interesting to hear
how these societal ideas kind of because then we're like, oh,
but you're not with a high value man, you know.
And and it's really interesting because in my world, a
high value man would be someone who has good value.

Speaker 10 (56:26):
It's like the good value being like ethics.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Ethics, yeah, exactly, like character, moral character, strength and courage
and bravery and honesty and right, that's what I would
consider a high value person for the man. Yeah, And
it's interesting how all this language at play kind of
cascades ideas quickly, like you said, because it's easier rather
than saying I'm with a good man, it's easier to

(56:51):
arm with a high value man. But you know what
does that mean?

Speaker 8 (56:54):
Right?

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Yeah, I was going to ask you do more people
want more intimacy or more sex?

Speaker 10 (57:02):
I think, first of all, it's it's a complicated thing
to draw the line between intimacy and sex. Oh interesting,
And I think it depends very much on the stage
of the relationship early on. One of the things, I mean,
we all know that one of the things that binds people,
one of the strongest glues is sex, like passion and

(57:25):
excitement about each other and like, you know, wanting to
get into bed together, and then at some point people
start coming to terms with like differences, differences in scripts,
differences in appetite.

Speaker 5 (57:41):
I know that the.

Speaker 10 (57:45):
Like the stereotype is that men are more focused on
sex and want more sex, and women want less or
it's less important to them. I don't think that's actually true.
I think again, it's very hard to make generalizations, and
it changes between like straight and queer couples, So it's
really not necessarily about the biology. But I think typically

(58:10):
there are different focuses for men and women, and then
later in the relationship things change because I think later
in the relationship the line between sex and intimacy gets
very blurry, and I think generally everyone wants both intimacy
and sex. Everyone wants it, and everyone wishes it for

(58:34):
themselves and wants it in large quantities. Everyone needs it,
but they focus on different.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Things, and no one has energy for it.

Speaker 10 (58:43):
And no one has energy for it, and anyway, a
lot of it is about wanting to feel desire of
some sort. That's really what it is, and not necessarily
wanting you know, oh I need to have it three
times times a week, or I need this, or I
need that. It's a lot about the experience of desire

(59:05):
and being desired. That is really kind of the thing.
We all want to be living in desire rather than
living in a certain kind of deadness.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
The key takeaway here is that self awareness is essential.
Relationships challenge us to explore our patterns, and understanding those
dynamics allows us to set boundaries, make healthier choices, and
build relationships that honor our value. Cody Sanchez dives into

(59:52):
financial literacy, debunking myths about credit debt and the resources
needed to start a business. For anyone who's ever felt
overwhelmed by money, even small actions like opening a credit card,
this will help you feel more confident in your financial decisions.
Walk me through the myth about credit cards and debit

(01:00:12):
cards that people can solve right now. Is there a
special credit card they should be getting, Is there one
that's better? What should they be looking out for? What
does APR mean? You know? Walk me through the hidden
things behying credit cards that we all feel stupid about.
When you see an ad and you're like, I have
no idea what that means.

Speaker 5 (01:00:29):
Yeah, it's so true.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:00:30):
I had an employee, actually, Christian who's in from the
UK too, and we were ridiculing him merstly actually, because
he only had a debit card to pay for things,
and I didn't even know that the UK was completely different.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
No, there are credit cards, but it's not he said.

Speaker 7 (01:00:44):
It's not normal. I was like, you're a twenty eight
year old man, you don't have a credit card, and
he was like, you need to travel more Cody, and
I was like sorry, But then we got him a
credit card so he could start establishing credit here. But
more of the story is here's I think the couple
first steps to financial freedom. You know, if you want
to set up your kid for success, you actually want
them to get a credit card really early. Doesn't so
much matter what type of credit card. I'm not like

(01:01:06):
the points guy, where I like to operationalize and optimize
every aspect of a credit card. I think that is
almost more work than trying to make more money. But
I think if you go from any of the major banks,
there are a lot of rules around credit cards, so
they're really not allowed to mess with you so much
on interest rates. There's a lot of protections for consumers,
so don't stress too much about which one, which one
seems like it has some night perks for you and

(01:01:27):
you can get the most amount of money that you need. Cool.
So that's step one. And if you can do that
for your kids when they're in high school, they will
actually have more access to the first pillar I think
of wealth, which is resources. We all know what's the
saying takes money to make money, right, and so if
you come from nothing, well you can start actually building

(01:01:48):
up your resource pile just from your credit which you
can start at a young age. You don't need to
be rich to do that. And then after resources, you
pile on knowledge. Right, the rich pass on how to invest.
We need to start doing that to our next generation.
Then you pass on wealth accumulation. That's where you start
to pile on your own money. And then finally you
pass on the ability to invest to continue to move

(01:02:08):
cyclically your money around and make it work for you.
But that's where I would start. It's like you start
with a credit card. You have a debit card really
just because you want to get cash out. Sometimes if
you go into the club and buying drinks or whatever
people do these days, that are cool with me. And
that's where I would start, and then I would move
to this next level of Okay, if I have some credit,
now we need to focus on earning. So how do

(01:02:28):
I make more money? But I think most people skip
that first step because credit is scary. And like, listen,
Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's partner, obviously very famous dude. But
here's a line I love, which is mentally go broke
by three things and it's whiskey women and leverage, and
leverage means debt, right. Warren Buffett gave him a little

(01:02:50):
adage to it at the end, and he goes, I think, actually,
what my friend meant to say was really just the
last one. It's really just leverage. And Warren Buffett, one
of the richest guys in the world world, said he
doesn't like debt. Here's the problem, Jay, He's highly levered.
He has a massive amount of debt. Why because he
has debt on assets and other people's things as opposed

(01:03:11):
to personal guarantees on his own. He's not mortgaging his
house to buy these companies. He is raising debt on
a company in order for it to make more money.
And so if you don't understand all that right now,
that's where I want you to dive in a little
bit more, but you can start with a debitan into
credit card.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Yeah. No, I think it's so important to understand debt.
And you see that when you see a celebrity buy
a new home and you've realized they borrowed to buy
that home. They didn't buy it in cash, even though
they have the cash and it's available to them. And
I think that idea is so farg if someone's thinking
about staying a business right now, or wants to grow
a business, and the number one thing you hear is well,

(01:03:48):
I don't have any money. I don't know how to
fund it. How much do you actually need to start
a business.

Speaker 7 (01:03:53):
I think you never suffer from a lack of money.
You suffer from a lack of knowledge on how to
get money. The richest people in the world they never
use their own money entirely to buy things. And if
you can like sit on that for a second and
let that sit in, then I think you can really
open up your eyes to the fact that all around
you there are deals right now, and there is money
that is waiting for the actually rarest of things, which

(01:04:15):
is a human who wants to work really hard and
has a good idea where to put the money. And
so you actually don't need money to start a business.
I don't think you need it at all. What you
need is some access to it. And so you know,
next week I'm going to the SBA, the Small Business Administration,
and they just ran out all of these new programs
for new business owners where they will one do grants

(01:04:36):
where they give you money, and grant means you take
this money, you don't have to give it back. The
government is going to give it to you, maybe because
you're a minority or a woman or have a core
needs business. They also do a ton of loans. You know,
they'll loan you ninety percent of the purchase price of
a business if you need one. And all around us
are also people who want to invest. And so like

(01:04:57):
there's a website called percent and on percent. I have
a small business and you need some debt for a
small business, you can actually get debt from your small
business through website. But I think the most important part
is not just tactically, it's like, can I change my
belief to believe that money is all around me and
I do not need to have only my own money.

Speaker 5 (01:05:16):
In order to get rich.

Speaker 7 (01:05:17):
And I want more people to think that way. It's hard.

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Do you think everyone needs a side us? Right now?

Speaker 7 (01:05:21):
I have two thoughts. One, I do not believe that
you have to go all in on the thing that
you want to do in life.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
I think that is.

Speaker 7 (01:05:27):
Told to you by people who had survivorship bias. Like
it worked for me, so it's going to work for you.
And what do we know to be true? Ninety percent
of startups fail over any five year period, and so
I actually think that the way to never have risk
in building a business. If you want to do a
startup and have no risk, I think you keep your job,

(01:05:47):
you do really well at that job while you're doing it,
You use your salary to fund your side hustle or
your next venture. You keep moving forward on it until
your side hustle matches the cost of living. That you
have your cash flow when you leave your business or
your job to go start your business once you have
enough money from inflow of the business. And I think

(01:06:08):
we've told too many people and idealized this idea of
entrepreneurship when in fact, you know I had three or
four businesses fail. If I had just left my job
that paid me good money, I would have been sleeping
on somebody's couch. And so you can have a side hustle,
but please keep it on the side for a minute
until you make sure it's not just a passion project
it is a profit project.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Yes, yeah, And I think that's dismist wisest advice. I'm
in the same boat. When I started doing what I
do today, I had a full time job. It didn't
pay great, but it paid enough to get by. It
paid my bills. It means it means I wasn't creating
from a place of stress. And when you're creating something
new from just stress, it can be quite dehabilitating. Now,

(01:06:52):
sometimes stress can be the greatest motivator. It can propel you,
it can be your launch pad, but you've got to
kind of get it right. Too much stress and you
fall apart. Too little stress and you stay in the
golden handcuffs. And I think that's where I see a
lot of people stuck today. Is I meet a lot
of people who I feel have tied on the golden
handcuffs but not using that as the investment. So it's like,

(01:07:13):
I want to have a lifestyle with the money I make,
I don't want to use it to build a new life.
The key takeaway here is that access and education, not
just effort, create opportunity. Taking the time to understand resources
and systems allows us to leverage them effectively and take
control of our financial futures. Novak Djokovic reflects on the

(01:07:35):
delicate balance of stress, motivation, and purpose even after reaching
the pinnacle of tennis. He emphasizes that growth comes from passion,
self awareness, and the desire to inspire others. And if
you've ever felt weighed down by pressure, his perspective shows
how it can become a launch pad rather than a trap.
Do you feel like in your career you've achieved everything

(01:07:57):
you set out to as a tennis player.

Speaker 8 (01:08:00):
Yes, and more than that. And at the same time,
I still want to do more, And I know that
that comes in a big part from a good place,
meaning from a place of purpose, inspiration, motivation, love for
the sport, passion for the sport, passion to make people
happy when they watch me. If I'm doing that, and

(01:08:21):
I have a feeling that I am, by still actively
being on the tennis tour and having my tennis career
active tennis career, I'm still spreading that light by playing
tennis and inspiring younger generations. That's something that comes from
a good place. But what comes from maybe I would say,

(01:08:41):
not necessarily a bad place, but less of a good place.
I have identified that as well is my feeling of
not being enough, and that goes back to my very
very beginning of my life and my relationship, particularly with
my father, and not doing enough, not being good enough.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 8 (01:09:05):
So so now that I'm talking about I kind of
get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of
me and it's kind of the battle that I also
go through often because a lot of people, even closest
people in my life, ask me, you know, what more
do you want? You know, you have achieved everything. What
do you want? Why do you keep going? And I

(01:09:26):
tell them the good part that I told you that
I still really strongly feel it's inside of me, and
I feel like as long as I have the capacity
or ability to compete for the biggest titles in my sport,
I want to keep going. And also partly the part
that I didn't mention that inspires me to keep going

(01:09:46):
is to test my limits mentally and physically. Because when
I was starting to break through in the professional tennis.
I remember when you reach your thirty you start counting
your days to your retirement. Like after thirty, you know,
that's it pretty much, even though there were some exceptions,
like Jimmy Connor is the legend of our game. He

(01:10:07):
played I think semi finals or finals of US Open
when he was forty you know, still still you know,
dominating the tour. So there were very but very few exceptions.
Nowadays it's different. Why because I think the care for
the body has improved so much. I mean now not
only top ten or fifteen guys or girls on the

(01:10:31):
tour have like multiple people in their squad to take
care of them. You have top fifty people that are
taking care of them. It's due to the improvement, of course,
of the conditions for the players. And you know, we
earn more across the board, so it gives you, it
allows you to hire more people that would take care
of your body. And I think that it's also a

(01:10:55):
kind of a curiosity from my side, how how far
can I go? You know, I'm thirty this year, you know,
how long can I push my own limits? And I
don't feel like I do have limits, and I feel
like the limits are normally constructs in our mind. I've
seen the episode you did with Brian Johnson the other
day and then he talked about you know, he's, by

(01:11:16):
a lot of people's opinion, very extreme, but you know,
he dedicated his own entire life to getting the data
and understanding what are the best conditions for the longest
living life that he can have for himself, which I
think is something that is admirable, and you know, give
him huge credit for that. And I understand because as

(01:11:39):
a professional athlete, you know, the care for your body
and your mind and the devotion to the daily habits
is so tough because when you want to change a
certain habit, science says it takes at least twenty one
days right for the brain to start growing, you know,
new neurons that are reprogramming. But if you don't have

(01:12:01):
the right environment, that's going to be very, very challenging.
So that was also one of the things that I
wanted to reflect on. And your question is the environment
is the one that can be very stimulative to you.
It can be really supportive, or it can be pulling
you down. So it's super important. Even though we always

(01:12:23):
encourage ourselves to be independent in terms of what we do,
what we eat, how we sleep, you know, how we
lead our lives and what we do and how we
can live the best version of our lives possible. But
at the same time, we are social beings. We are
very tribal beings, and even if it's the smallest community,
we still want to belong to that community. We still

(01:12:44):
want this community to support us, even if it's one
person or two. But it's super important in the end
of the day because you know, making tough choices. These
are tough choices because society when you go out there,
you know, super majority of the places where you go
to eat or people that you see, it's a kind
of a vicious cycle and they lead their life in
a certain way that maybe doesn't coincide or correspond to

(01:13:08):
your choices that you want to make, the new choices
or maybe the new changes. So it's really hard, you know,
I mean, living in the big city and deciding you
want to go through transformational journey. On a daily basis,
we're being exposed to something that is contrary to what
you're trying to achieve. I feel like it's reinventing yourself constantly.
You know, for me, I've had this kind of upbringing,

(01:13:31):
had the great foundation, and you know, I've achieved incredible things.
I was dreaming of becoming number one in the world
and becoming a Wimbledon champion, and that was my dream.
I achieved that dream within two days. I won Wimbledon
and at the same day became number one in the
world in twenty eleven, in front of my family, in
front of President of Serbia, who was there. I mean,

(01:13:53):
it was with the welcoming of hundreds of thousands of
people on the way back. It's just, you know, once
in a lifetime type of experience, and when you do
something for the first time, obviously that big. It's just
like you're you're flying to the moon. I mean you're not.
It's a kind of an old, out of body experience.
But then I felt like I had to set new goals.

(01:14:15):
And because I was, you know, at the time twenty eleven,
I was twenty three years old, twenty four So okay,
what do I do next? You know, I feel like
I'm a peak of my powers and I want it
so so then I want to wear multiple slams, that
I want to win all slams at once, that I
want to win gold medal for my country, that I
want to make history and so forth. So I think
goal oriented mind, particularly in sports, but also in business

(01:14:39):
or anything. Really, I think it's super important because the
clarity from my experience is something that is essential to
have also peace of mind and to have a calm heart.
That you know what you're doing, and that you set
your goals, your short term goals, your long term goals,
and you know exactly the strategy that you need to

(01:15:00):
implement to achieve them. And you surround yourself with the
people who are supporting you, but also people who are
telling you what you don't want to hear, you know,
giving your constructive criticism or maybe giving you non constructive
criticism and then putting you very down. But that's also
part of the journey. It's also learning how to get
up like a phoenix and rise and try to develop

(01:15:22):
a thick skin, so to say. So it's a constant process. Really,
I don't see myself fully satisfied, if that's maybe a
shorter answer, because I have that part of me which
is like, you know, I think I can still do more,
but I'm at the other side of me is like,
of course I'm fully said, I'm happy and I'm proud,

(01:15:45):
and in a way, I can't wait one day for
me to reflect on everything. But while I'm still in
my active career, I don't have time. Tennis has the
longest season of all sports, generally starts Genuary ends almost
end of November, and of course I earn my right
in a way to be selective with tournaments where I play,
So that's what I'm doing. I'm not playing as much,

(01:16:07):
focusing on the big ones, and I'm trying to incorporate
all these other things inside of my career and basically
expand the platform and use my voice for other things
than just the tennis court. And I'm super blessed to
be in a position that I am, But as I said,
it's a constant journey and process.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
The key takeaway here is that purpose driven effort transforms
challenges into growth, whether in sport or life. Aligning motivation
with passion and community allows us to turn pressure into
performance and inspiration. Mel Robbins teaches us about the power
of our attention, energy, and boundaries. By letting go of

(01:16:47):
the need to control others' perceptions, we reclaim our own
agency and how these small intentional choices in work, relationships,
and self expression create meaningful change. It's so interesting how
we think love is overcaring, but actually overcaring is over
enabling that person and overwhelming that person.

Speaker 12 (01:17:09):
Yes, and it's control.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
It's control.

Speaker 12 (01:17:11):
You're not like if you think about what love really is,
and for me, love is two things. It's consideration, right,
It's having someone in mind. If you pour in oat
milk instead of the cow milk because that's what they like,
that's an act of love. It's also admiration, and admiration

(01:17:33):
is the ability to see something in somebody that you
deeply admire. I want to go back to something that
you said, though, because it was genius and it had
me think about the idea of the power of your
time and energy. And you were talking about imagine if

(01:17:55):
like your time and your energy had dollars associated with it,
because I don't think we value it. And I started
to think about one of the biggest obstacles because what's
ultimately happening when you start to use let them and
let me, is you're going to see that you've turned
other people into a major problem. And you have turned
them into a problem in four ways. First of all,

(01:18:17):
you allow them to stress you out, but you're not
going to do that anymore because you're going to let
them be. But the second way that you've made them
a major problem in your life is that you give
so much weight to other people's opinions. And in the
example you were just talking about what was happening is
by asking you, what do you think Roddy was doing?

(01:18:40):
What we all do, but most of us do it
subconsciously and we don't even realize it, which is before
we even ask ourselves what feels right for us, we
stop and consider what we think somebody is going to think.
And you have that really brilliant thing that I've heard
you say a bazillion times that I love. It's not
what you think, you think a think and I'm like, wait, whatit?

(01:19:01):
But so I want to play this out because this
is so important. Was a huge thing for me. If
you open up your favorite social media platform, we've all
had the experience where you go and you pick a
photo and you then put it up and you're like, okay,
should a pfilter on this? And you start to then
question is this the right photo? And then you go

(01:19:21):
back to your photo role, and then you start working
on the caption should I put emoji?

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Is this too much? Should I do this?

Speaker 12 (01:19:26):
And then you are worried why because you're actually thinking
about what other people are going to think or do
in response to what you're posting. Yes, which means if
you take the value of it right, you just overvalued
something that you will never be able to control ever, ever, ever, ever,

(01:19:49):
and yet you're doing it subconsciously. And what typically happens
is if you notice everybody's got hundreds of draft posts,
you know what that is. That is a grave yard
of energy. You waste it on something that you didn't
you'll never be able to control because the average person
has seventy thousand random thoughts a day. You can't even
control half the crap that goes in your own mind.

(01:20:11):
So what makes you think any post is going to
guarantee that any human being thinks anything? And the let
them theory revealed to me Jay, how often I was
subconsciously valuing, oh, for sure, someone else and that like,
are they going to think negative?

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
They can think this?

Speaker 12 (01:20:31):
Is they going to think too much? And there's such
a simple way to change this. You just let them
think negative thoughts.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
That's it.

Speaker 12 (01:20:38):
The next time you catch yourself stopping to consider what
you're going to post or what your colleagues might react to,
and that's what's keeping you silent, say to yourself, let
them think negative thoughts, because that's what you're actually afraid of.
And so when you say let them think negative thoughts,
something wild happens. You accept the reality that no matter

(01:21:01):
what you do, it doesn't guarantee that anybody thinks anything.
And then you say, let me And here's where this
gets really cool. Let me remind myself I can think
what I want, and I can do what I want.
And your social media, in particular, as you and I
both know, it's your self expression. That's what it's there for.
And if you can't allow yourself to express yourself there,

(01:21:25):
then it's going to be everywhere where you edit yourself
because you're not just letting people think negative thoughts. Sure,
but if you operate in a way now and you
now take the value, you take the money back. We're
not going to pay Jay the money for his opinion.
I'm going to take the money back, and where I'm
going to put the value is operating in a way
that makes me feel proud of myself. Because when I

(01:21:48):
operate in a way, whether I'm posting something, or I'm
speaking in a meeting, or I'm showing up and not
responding to my dramatic whatever, I'm proud of myself. And
when you're proud of yourself, you don't even consider what
other people are thinking, because you've just anchored all of
your worth inside of yourself. And that's why this is

(01:22:10):
another reason why this is so unbelievably powerful.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
Yeah, And the truth is, no one's thinking about you
for as long as you think it's true. No one's
thinking about you for as much as you think. No
one's thinking about you as much as they even say
they're thinking about you. And we, just like you said,
we keep draining that energy, consumed by it. You reminded
me of the beautiful Charles Houghton Cooley quote, and he
wrote this in eighteen ninety and he said, the challenge

(01:22:36):
today is I'm not what I think I am. I'm
not what you think I am. I am what I
think you think I am, which means we live in
a perception of a perception of ourselves. So if I
think mel thinks I'm not smart, then I don't think
I'm smart. So it's not even reality. It's not even

(01:22:57):
factually proven or checked or tested. By the way everything
in the let them theory, this book is literally every thought,
those seventy thousand thoughts. That's what you're addressing in this book.

Speaker 12 (01:23:07):
And two words.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
It gets rid of this fear. Yeah, it literally does,
because I was talking. I've talked to at least three
friends this week, and all of them are concerned by
either heyj I'm thinking about posting a video on social media.
I'm scared of what people will think. So that's for
their professional or their passion.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
I've got another friend who's worried that a lot of
our other friends are talking about him negatively, ok because
he's recently fallen out with them, Okay, and so he's worried, like,
what are they saying they're all talking to each other,
what rumors are they spreading about me? Like, maybe it's
not true. And the thing that they're holding onto is
they just can't let they can't let them, and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
No, but they can.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:23:46):
See I don't think they have the tool.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:23:48):
See, here's the thing. If you're worried that people are
gossiping about you, let them, Let them gossip about you.
Here's why you can't control it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
It's gonna happen anyway, yes.

Speaker 12 (01:23:58):
And so if you can can't control it, why on
earth would you allow any time or energy to be wasted.
It's an act of self torture. So if you are
worried that people are gossiping about you, first of all,
let them gossip about you, because they're going to do
what they're going to do because you cannot change what

(01:24:20):
other people do. You can't control what they think. You
can't control what they do. If they're going to gossip,
they're going to gossip, So let them gossip. And when
you say that, it's a relief because you actually acknowledge
the thing that you've been afraid of, and it's like
you're allowing it without allowing it. But then, don't forget
you have power.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Let me.

Speaker 12 (01:24:39):
Remind myself that I get to choose what I think
about myself. I get to decide what I do and
what I don't do, whether or not I respond or not,
and I get to decide who I spend time with.
And so the bigger question becomes if you're busy worrying
about which means you're spending time energy. People who are

(01:25:03):
gossiping about you, why would you want to be friends
with them? And so now you take responsibility for your
own part in chasing people that aren't treating you in
a way that you deserve. Yes, and you recognize that
the power here is in just letting people be.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
And when you let.

Speaker 12 (01:25:23):
People be, your relationships get better because people reveal who
they are and where you stand. And then you get
to choose how much time you spend or not. And
not everybody in your life deserves an explanation, they don't
deserve a response necessarily, and so you also get to
choose who you tell your story to or who you

(01:25:45):
apologize to, or how you respond to it. And that's
where your power is. And I'm not saying this makes
it easy, because you're probably in a situation like that
going to have to say let them, let them, let them,
And then you're going to see them on social media
and you're gonna be like, s welcome, Should I not
back them?

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
Are they going to see if I do that?

Speaker 5 (01:26:03):
Should I'm not going to let them?

Speaker 12 (01:26:05):
Let them know their lives and if I want to
unfollow them, let me do that, because I get to
choose what comes into my space or not.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
The key takeaway here is that your time, energy, and
focus are valuable, protect them, use them intentionally, and don't
let external validation dictate your actions. Once you make that shift,
then you make space for freedom, growth and fulfillment to
grow from within. As we close this episode and this year,
remember this life is not about perfection. It's about presence.

(01:26:36):
Growth is not linear, but every moment struggle draw your
reflection is a step forward. The lessons are clear. Embrace
failure as a starting point, Show up authentically in your
relationships and life. Give yourself time to heal and grow,
protect your energy, attention, and focus. Pursue your purpose with
passion and courage. The past year has shaped us, challenge

(01:27:00):
and reminded us of what matters. As we move forward,
carry these lessons into your next chapter. You're capable, you're growing,
and your life is a canvas to become your best self.
Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If
you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant
on why discomfort is the key to growth and the

(01:27:21):
strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. If you know you
want to be more and achieve more this year. Go
check it out right now.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
You set a goal today, you achieve it in six months,
and then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief.

Speaker 6 (01:27:36):
There's no sense of meaning and purpose.

Speaker 7 (01:27:38):
You sort of expected it, and you would have been
disappointed if it didn't happen.

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Host

Jay Shetty

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