MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY: The KEYS to a Meaningful Life (Love, Faith, Family & Turning Failure into Growth)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Action was called the day you were born, and cut
will be called the day you do. What are you
doing live? Is that worth the show?

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey?

Speaker 3 (00:08):
Everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come
to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest
is someone whose life and work have inspired millions around
the world. Also someone that I've had the fortune of
talking to digitally, but the first time having him physically
in this studio. We've crossed parts many a time, but
I'm so grateful to have in the studio the one

(00:29):
and only Matthew McConaughey, an Academy Award winning actor, author,
and storyteller who has spent decades exploring what it means
to live with intention, courage, and heart. His new book,
Poems and Prayers is a reflection of that journey and
invitation to pause, reflect and reconnect with what truly matters. Please,
Welcome to On Purpose. Matthew McConaughey.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Good to be here with you.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Matti. It's great to be here with you.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
I always love our conversations. Even when I find us
at a conference in Texas or at a party, we
always seem to find a way or you always seem
to find a way to cut right through it. And
then you'll ask me this question of something you've been
thinking about, and then I'll share this, and we just
always get into these really profound conversations.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
And today I was excited.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
I was really looking forward to it because I thought, oh,
now we get to do it with a bit more time.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yes, we've had many conversations we didn't get to finish. Yes,
today maybe we finished.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
So yeah, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
I wanted to ask you, Matthew, like when you when
you think about your life right now, you do so much.
You were just talking about all the projects and travel
and everything. If you ever get a day that has
no plan, no schedule, no timeline, no phone, no commitments,
what does that look like for you?

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I don't get many of those, and I need to
my hunches. I need to learn to get meant more
of those, and when I get them, I can be
better at them because I have a love of accomplishment
to even feel a significance for the day. You know,
I sleep better when I have a perpose and I

(02:00):
went after something, even if it's just building something and
I'm still learning, I'm going to remind myself now it
used to be better. I'd actually to I just go
daydream mosey, let's take everything's go swing by today. That's
one thing. I've quit calling appointment to appointments and call
them swing buyas, and all of a sudden, I find

(02:21):
I get just as much done. But I'm just it's
just in my dance day. But if I have one
full day off, I will get my nine and a
half hour sleep, which is preferred, which means maybe I
sleep till nine thirty. I'll get up, take my time,
mosey down. If Camilla was up, my wife was up

(02:41):
before me, she'll have left me a Mancha tea. If
she wasn't or had to rush out the door, I'll
go make that tea while the water's boiling. I'll I'll
go probably do eight pieces of a puzzle, which is
a wonderful way I love to starting my day. I'm
that slow simple ah eight little connections you you rhymed,

(03:03):
eight different things and very simple. Now I'll usually head
out to the maybe the front porch, have that first tea,
catch hopefully catch fifteen minutes of some morning sun face.
Then I'll catch up on the on the the world's news.
What's happening. Maybe I'll do my word or a couple

(03:24):
of simple little things. I'm gonna try and play tennis
somewhere in the day. I'm gonna try and break a
sweat somewhere during the day. I'll take some project or
something that I'm working on or writing with me. Maybe too,
my Jim and I have one of those lazy little
two and a half hour workouts where you kind of
stop and write some things and then you kind of
scrip hop back into it. And then I'm probably gonna

(03:48):
cook dinner that night when i don't have anything going on,
So either I'm gonna get the rabbis and rub them
down in my rub and have everything, or I'm gonna
do tunea melts for the family that night, and then
kids and every want to come home. We'll usually hang
I'm picking. I'm saying this day that I have off
as a school day, Yeah, and we'll hang catch up.

(04:10):
On days after that, maybe the family will all go
catch something one of our favorite shows. We'll go watch
an hour and if we will start early enough, maybe
we get two episodes. Kids will go down then come
and I get to hang and for the last couple
hours of the evening. That'd be a mosey through my
day day nice.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, how obviously the mindset of achievement and purpose and
growth has served you so well. But there's a part
of you that sounds like I would like more days
like this. Where does that come from?

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I love to be on task. I love to have
something that I'm building and reaching to finish and do.
I love the building of that. I've started a lot
of the campfires in my life that I'm still building,
and I have plenty to fill my twenty four hours days.
At the same time, I want to keep learning and

(05:05):
be inspired by something new, you know, pick up something
that I didn't like. I just picked up tennis four
years ago. I didn't I noticed. I said, you hadn't
had a hobby for twenty five years. McConaughey, You found
your first hobby. I thought writing was a hobby, and
I was like, no, that's actually not a hobby, you know,
but to find to be open to finding a new hobby,

(05:25):
a new to go somewhere or not. I don't know
where we're going. We're going for a walk to no
destination in particular, you know, to lose track of time
with success and with a busy life, and I got
a full life and got a family and I got
a career. Ay. My hunch is that while that can
fill my days completely for my own evolution and art,

(05:49):
just to make sure I can still have that beginner's
mind where I can deck, go deck, go daydream for
nothing in particular, go go go, go where your nose
takes shit, know what I mean, or go where your
ears take you. Follow that to give my to make
sure I'm giving myself time to let that happen. I
think it is a good. I think it is a good.

(06:09):
It always seems to pay off, and it never looked
at it as like time not well spent, you know
what I mean. But in the time, I can get
a little bit anxious and be like, let's do let's
get ahead on that thing, you know, let's let's bring
that thing that you were supposed to have done next
Friday in the water. If we got that done now.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, I can relate to that. I can. I
can relate to that.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
And I can see it too in how easy it
is as someone who loves what they do and loves
creating and building, and I fully get it.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
That's I mean, there's the upside, and I'm not over
here bitching about that. I'm happy to have things in
my life that I love to build and do. My
wife knows it. I'm probably most happy. It's probably obvious
when I'm when I'm working, when I have it, when
I have a schedule, when I have a day that
is this many hours or twelve hours, or I just
got through shooting something for two more much and then

(07:00):
boom hopped off next day, whim to shooting something for
three days. I love that I sleep well. The food
tastes a little better to me that night. That cocktail,
that panelonas on ice tastes better that night. I'm actually,
I think have more time, and I am a better
father to my kids, the conversations, and I'm more present

(07:24):
when I have that sense of accomlishment through the day.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, what's uh, You've written so many chapters, You've lived
so many chapters. What would this chapter of your life
be called?

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Who? That's a great question. So I'm just turned fifty
six and forties were my favorite decade. I think I
really customized and I found that to be true for
a lot of people, especially a lot of the men
I talked with them, Man, forties or you get rid

(07:56):
of all that stuff where you're wasting your time and
you're honing in on the stuff that turns you on. Look, fifties,
I'm still in the early The first first few years
of fifties were a little wobbly for me. So you go, oh,
is this that midlife crisis? And I go, what is that?
I don't like the word crisis on that sounds like

(08:17):
a bid life, for lack of a better word, opportunity.
You just it's a time where, for whatever reason, man
looks back and goes, what have I done? And now
where am I going? And I think my hunch is
that most people go through what they call mid life crisis,
and if it's hard for them or not healthy for them,
it's because maybe they're not giving enough credit to what

(08:37):
they actually have done to get there. You know, it's like, oh, no,
I did that done? Next? You know, like we're talking
about me the more accomplishment. Wait a minute. Sometimes it's
sortright to go, what what did you do back there?
That actually you're still building? What if we take that
to another level? Put another log on that fire? My
goal when I had the fifties. My goal came to

(09:00):
me was like, Hey, you're an actor. You play a
character in someone else's script, someone else wrote, directed by
someone else, lensed in a camera from someone else, and
edited by someone else before your performance is shared. And
I love acting, but I go, there's four filters of

(09:21):
my raw expression before it's getting to you. We were
talking about this before we got on camera. Today you
go on stage, boom, it's direct. This is pretty direct,
but there's still a filter here, you know what I mean.
Writing there's still one filter. But that's when I headed
into writing is I wanted to get rid of three
of the filters. And that's when I said, oh, what
if I write the word? Can I pull off and

(09:43):
give someone translate the human experience where the people can
see themselves through words? Can I paint a picture of
my own experiences which someone else can go, Oh, I've
been there, I know what you're talking about. But that's
still a filter. So the challenge I've been that that
keeps just gnawn at me since I've turned fifty. It's like,
what's your documentary? What are you doing? Are you a

(10:10):
character in life in the big show? The one there?
Our action was called The Day you were born, and
cut will be called the day you die? What? What's
what are you doing? Live? Is that worth the show?
Is it entertaining? Is it educational? Is it fulfilling? Is it?

(10:30):
Does it turn you on? Could it turn other people?
Put people on? What's happened? That's that's now we're talking
no filters, and so I've started to question myself, going
what what's your let's let's let's think about do you
as there other avenues for you to live live instead
of doing someone else's script. What's your script? Now? That's

(10:52):
led me to think about different ways of leadership. It's
led me to write more. It's also led me to
go on the hard days to give myself a little
amnesty and go, dude, take a little wisdom from bob Bylan.
You are what you create yourself to be. Maybe if

(11:13):
you feel more live acting in a show through a character, well, bravo,
that's still you. Don't act like that's not used and
get to your real self.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Abby.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
You are to be the creation. And it's okay if
I'm gonna go play a part. We're all playing a part?
Are we playing? If we can get to a part
that is essentially close to the essentially who we are.
Bravo for us. If we can't, we're having trouble doing that.
If we can play a part that we're good at

(11:43):
and shows a piece and translates to show a piece
of humanity, turns other people in and us on, even
though it may not be coorly who well, bravo for
getting away with that one too, you know. But play
one at a time is another is another little tip
I have to remind myself because the great performers, whether

(12:04):
I think in life or an acting, you know, they
can play any part, they can be any creation, but
they're always one at a time. And that's where some
patience has come in. That's where a bit of that, Hey,
don't rush to accomplish play one part at a time.
But as life gets big and you've got a career

(12:24):
and you've got a family, there's many parts to play,
you know, father, husband, performer, you know, or writer, whatever
those are. But as you know, with practice, those all
that instead of feeling like five different hats you gotta
wear one day you go, that's all part of the
same story. That's all part of the same man I am.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
So the chapter would be called one one at a time.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
The chapter would be called Ah, I wish it was guys.
Sometimes I think it should be called one at a time. Along.
My long answer to what would the chapter be would be, Uh,
we've got a I opened up eight lanes to about
twelve lanes. When you open up two more lanes and
you've been comfortable on these eight and you know them, well, well,

(13:10):
there's a little growing pains with getting comfortable in those
other new lanes without disregarding my eight that I've built,
that I've built that I'm comfortable in, you know, So
I would say four more lanes. It's called that chat.
It's called four more lanes, four more lanes.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
It's interesting listening to you because I think you've highlighted
a really interesting human trait that we all possess, where
when we achieve something and it's no longer useful, we
start to denigrate it. So, for example, if I think
a certain mindset is going to help me at this

(13:49):
point in my life, I'll use it. It will get
me to where I want to get to, and then
when I get there, I'll go I didn't like that mindset.
I wish I was this way, and we kind of
do that time and time again and decade by decade
where we reject the thing that got us here and
don't value it because now it isn't what the new

(14:10):
world looks and making it very basic. A crude example is, oh,
I used I thought that was cool to wear, and
now ten years later I look back and I think
I was a wearing right, Like I'm crazy, right. But
think about that on an internal soul level of the
mindsets we wear and the behaviors we wear, and taking
a moment, as you said, to give yourself that amnesty
to say.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Well, yeah and too, and to make sense of you're
with the default emotion when you look back in your
embarrass or something you did that actually got you what
you wanted, you know, to go instead of judging it,
at least start off giggling at it. It helps with
the amnesty. It also helps change your gear and go oh,
the realization, Oh, I wouldn't have guy, I wouldn't have

(14:50):
learned that lesson if I wouldn't have been such an
egotistical prick at the time, because I wouldn't have had
the confidence to put myself in the situation to get hovel. Yeah,
you know, what I mean, you look at all the
piles of s h I t we step in and
they lead to you know, the clean the clean water
we get to drink from the from the well down

(15:11):
the line, or the truth we figure out. I mean,
it's it's it's you know, always say that it's a
mystery going forward. It's a science looking back, you know,
because we can all connect the dots to exactly where
we are right now. And there's a science to it even.
And that science has to do with when we face

(15:33):
planted and tripped ourselves and messed up or went about
it the wrong way but maybe got the outcome we wanted,
or went about the wrong way didn't get the outcome
we wanted. I think that has a lot to do
with our and I don't know, do you think this
is a Western thing, our relationship with failure. In some
ways I wish we were more embarrassed, all right, But

(15:55):
in other ways, I'm like, we have to get it
with children, you know, it's like they're afraid to fail.
It's like no, no, no, If anything, if I look back,
I always answer the question what would you do different?
I wish it would have taken more risk and fail more,
and I'm still trying to challenge myself to that today.
But we have this relationship with failure is like an
embarrassing thing to do instead of shaking. The failure will happen,

(16:15):
and if it doesn't happen, you're probably not taking enough
risk or you're not getting out of your comfort zone.
So no, failure is part of the successful path. It's necessary,
and we don't have a good relationship with it. Is
that a Western thinking?

Speaker 3 (16:32):
I think it comes from the Western versus Eastern ideology
of time. So in Eastern traditions time is cyclical, and
in Western traditions time is linear, and as soon as
you make time linear, failure means a step behind right.
But as soon as time is cyclical, well then it's
just repeating itself. So that concept transforms how you view

(16:54):
failure because failure then becomes a part of a cycle,
whereas failure in a linear journey is bad because it
means I'm going backwards.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Someone else.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Success in the same way in the Western Western world vertical,
as in oh, two steps up the ladder, failure, oh,
you step back down the ring, whereas in the Eastern
philosophy it's not necessarily so vertical quantity.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, I would say it's I would say, if the
Western is outwards and upwards, then the Eastern is inwards.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
And so the inner journey, for example, the quest to
understand outer space would not be as interesting as the
inner sky. The inner sky would be more of a
magnetic pull to understand herd. If that helps make it
does yeah, yeah, And so these little mindsets I feel

(17:47):
it's it's what you said earlier. You change your language
about midlife crisis to mid life of life opportunity. That
language shift, it's revolutionary for the mind.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Is wild, isn't it? The vernacular, the prescriptions, definition, or
just a word. I had the war I had. I've
had the hardest time for forty years dealing with the
words humility. Come on, I gotta be humble, you gotta humble, humble.

(18:22):
My shoulders would start to cave, my head would start
to go down. I was past, I became passive. But
I had the moment where it was my turn, and
I didn't take the opportunity. I had a false sense
of modesty. No, no, no, you you go. Or it's
that that person, that's that that that's at the in

(18:42):
front of you at the stop side that says now
you can go, and that's you're time. No you can
go to Like, no, it's your turn to go. It's like,
just don't sit there and keep telling everythingle that's a
false modesty. It's like, there's very they wit. Now you
can go. Don't let them all go through, or I'm
gonna start a hogging the horn, you.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Until I heard a definition that was humility is admitting
you have more to learn. As soon as I heard that,
I went, oh, oh, I'm in I purchase. Now my
chin's up, my heart tie, my shoulders are back, and
I admit I've got a lot more to learn, but
now I've got the confidence to move forward. And I

(19:22):
didn't get that click, and it was just a definition.
Vulnerability is another word that kind of has a mingling
definition that some people are hard to take. It a
you know, sentimentality. It's different between sentiment and sentimentality. And
we all want to be humble, but nobody wants to
be humiliated. Well aren't they of the same word.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
You know?

Speaker 1 (19:45):
I mean, yeah, one little flick of a definition we found,
you know what, Camille and I when we went to
d C with the gun control after the shooting, and
we said, instead of calling it gun control, and we're
talking to especially some people on the far right, the
word they love, which is true, not control. Nobody wants

(20:06):
to mandate. What do we call it? Gun responsibility? Oh oh,
they're raising their hand. Go I'm off for responsibility. What
do you mean but the word control? I am not
even I'm not listening to another word controls what I don't want.
But you say call it responsibility. Oh, now I talk
to you. It's amazing how all words sometimes and you

(20:27):
don't know what someone else's definition is. They may have
a completely different definition of that by how they grew up,
what they experienced, what their parents taught them, what the school,
how that word, what that gave them in their life.
When they thought they were acting that way, they're living
that way.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
It's so true, it's so true. And that's such a
great example with humility. My favorite definition that I learned
about humility was always being honest with yourself. And so
it's like, humility is being honest with yourself. So I'm
good at this and I'm not I'm great at this,
and that can be confident about it, and this needs
a bit of work, you know. And so if I

(21:04):
can be honest with myself, and that's humility because I'm
accepting that there's more I need to learn. But there
is something that I have to offer, and.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
It's I love the word, you know. I love to
be certain. Yes, sometimes I mistake. I love to be
I'm a big fan of the word selfish. And I'm
still into redefining this and my pastor something. God, hey,
you're pushing a large square rock up a very steep hill.
But you know, even biblically speaking to unto others, that

(21:32):
you would have them do unto. You love your neighbor
as you love yourself. That's the self that seems to
me purely selfish. I believe. Seems to me that real
religion is extremely selfish. Live in a way now if
we believe that you will, whether it's caramel wise in

(21:55):
life or whether it's life after this life, that you
will be rewarded later. That projection and that delayed gratifications,
sacrifices and consequences we make, Maybe it's when we make
now to give our children a better life two decades
from now. Isn't that the most self Isn't that more
selfish than doing only for I at the sake of
my neighbor or my loved one's future. Seems to me

(22:17):
that's maybe I'm using the wrong Maybe I'm using the
wrong word I'm told sometimes, but I'm sticking with it. Yeah,
but you know the certainty, I like to know. I
want to be in the know. I also want to
damn well be in the know about what I don't know. Humility,

(22:38):
you know what I mean, Like I mean, you know
they say don't take yourself says no, take yourself real seriously,
and also take sense of humor seriously, and also take
comedy very seriously. Take the falls very seriously. They happen.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
You know.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
I loved your you just referenced it too, my karma.
I loved your reading definition of how karma works. So
in the book, you write, when you don't do good
to others, it's guaranteed basically that they won't do good
to you. But if you do good to others, it's
not a guarantee that there's still good to you. But

(23:17):
the universe will respond along those lines. Yeah, and I'm
doing it for a memory that's talking about redefinitions. It
stayed with me because I thought, you've just pierced the
veil of our false understanding with karma, which is if
I do good to people, they do good to me,
and if I do bad people, they do bad to me.
So I'm expecting that when I do good to you,

(23:40):
you'll do good to me. And we all know that
doesn't work like that. And I thought, Wow, this really
pierces the point because now I can still choose to
be good to others, knowing that good comes to me
in other ways, right, But I don't have to find
it through that person.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Can you can you? Can we trust that? Can we
trust that initially for ourselves? Again? That goes back to
selfish for me for ourselves again, the projection, It seems
like delayed gratification. The thing that we really try to
teach our children is what we still have the most
to learn about as adults. What are the consequences? Can

(24:20):
we believe more in the consequences of our choices today?
Can we have more trust and belief in you know
that what the choice I make today, if I make
the better choice, it's going to reap rewards on others,

(24:41):
including myself, down the line. But we don't like to
think past Now, if you're successful and you're a fluent
in life, you have the luxury of thinking of long
term thinking. Some people in misery, which this would be
fun to talk about, some of the misery, they're delayed gratification.

(25:02):
My ass, what you're talking about. I'm trying to I'm hoping.
I'm trying to get something tonight. We're going to wake
up tomorrow and put some food on the table. Is
it a luxurious thing to talk about delayed gratification? Is
a luxurious thing to talk about making sacrifices and doing
what's well for yourself but also well for the most
amount of others. Is that a luxury to someone in misery?

(25:25):
Because they sure as hell. I have a hard time understanding.
And I'm with you, going, I understand you want me
to talk about it, what we can do peace in
the world, and you're trying to pay your rent. I
don't want to hear about that. I've got a household here,
I got two bedrooms, I got five kids, I just
got fired, and you want to talk to me about

(25:45):
what the best idea would be for the most amount
of people right here? Yeah, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (25:51):
I understand that, Yes, absolutely, I agree, and then what
do you do about that?

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Then? So you understand it?

Speaker 1 (25:57):
But well, I I try to be humble with it
and go you can't just you know, speak trying to
come across as speaking from on high. I think, you know,
you talk about someone in a position who's lost or

(26:18):
in pain again, you talk to them about projection and
projecting further in life, They're like, what are you talking about?
But to those people, and when I myself have been
there and trying to and confused and frustrated and don't
have the luxury or the bandwidth to think that far

(26:39):
ahead and try to go what all right, so what's
the next that's the right decision? What's and you don't
know what that is? Yeah, well I don't know. That's
the one of the problems. All right, what do you
what are you most faithful.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
To do that? One?

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Just one? Let's just go one in a row. What
ain't thinking about? And if then no, just shit to
one in a row, you know, and just start with
one and and and just stopped there. I remember being
down in after Katrina. We were in golfing Mississippi, and uh,

(27:18):
we're on these property were all these houses were wiped
out and we're in this one place and there's this
lady's house was just a slate of cement with some
rubbage and stuff. It be knocked down. And she came
back and she was about eighty years old and she
was still in the nightgown and she seize it, saw
it for the first time, and she was just like,
and we actually, what are you looking with? She was well,

(27:39):
I I just want to find a picture, maybe in
a scrapbook. So my grandchildren say, I don't liive her,
but that's that will that will help me. And then
I was sitting there talking to her and I was like,
what are you feeling right now? She goes, I just
I just can you tell me where to put my
right foot if I take a step?

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah? I just need Yeah?

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Is it solid? Is it gonna cave? Am I gonna trip?
Can you just tell me? I don't even want to
look right now? Can I trust you to tell me
that this? If I step this way one step, my
foot will be solid in flight and I won't slip
and it won't be dangerous. I don't want step on
a piece of glass. I'm not It's not gonna and
that's just wanted one step. That's a person in misery going,

(28:24):
just show me one solid step. I don't want to
know what's going on. No, I don't not not what's
happening in an hour, not what's happening in thirty minutes.
Just give me one solid step. Yeah, that seems to
be a place to start for someone in misery. Yeah,

(28:44):
that's doesn't have the ability to project or so confused,
and it's got too much coming down on you, too
much pain to think down there, down the line. And
then if you do that once, then you reset and
you bring the same question, what's the next one step?
If it one in a row over and over instead

(29:06):
of oh I'm going to put a string together, Now
do one in a row over and over and look
up and maybe and go look at that. Yeah, ten
in a row, we got somewhere. Yeah, but that's easier
said than done. You know, No, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I know? I love that.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
I think you hit the nail on the head. It's
how we teach children to take one step at a time.
It's how we build new habits as people. We do
one day at a time. I think as soon as
we start thinking, it's why new as resolutions fail It's
why these big claims of I'm going to do this
for the rest of my life or I'm going to
do this for the rest of the year, why people

(29:41):
struggle with vows and commitments or whatever it may be,
it's because you're making this long term decision based on
small amounts of information, and you're spot on that. I
think it's not compassionate to challenge someone beyond that one step,
that footing that that they just I love that answer.
I think it's I think it's I think it's the
most empathetic, compassionate, and loving thing you can do is

(30:03):
to teach someone how to take the next step without
any pressure to climb the whole mountain.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
So what, then, would you say, is the balance between
keeping the big picture in mind but taking one step
at a time, the urge, the will, the incentive, the
being to go No, I'm chasing my transcendent self. I'm

(30:31):
trying to be more god like, whatever that is, which
is a big big picture. I'm trying living as if
I want to get to Heaven or whatever. I want
to act in a way that I have good comment.
Those are big ideas. So how do you what's in
your mind what's the dance between that and yes, but

(30:53):
put your head down one step at a time.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
As you're saying that, I'm reminded of a beautiful line
in scripture. This comes from the bugwad Ghita, the Eastern text,
and the text is not a rule book or a
principal book. It's based on a battlefield and the character
is the greatest archer of his time and he's having
a crisis of faith and the bow slipping from his hands.

(31:37):
He's going to have to fight his family, who are
the bad side and he's the good side, and he
doesn't feel capable of taking the lives of people that
he grew up with. And that's the scene, and he's
talking to God, who happens to be his charioteer. So
God's actually writing his charier and he pauses in between
the two armies and they have this dialogue which is

(32:00):
seven hundred verses forty five minutes long in time, and
God's number one instruction is think of me and fight.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, I think of me.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah. It's like I want you to think of me
and then do your duty and take that step. And so,
you know, talking about what you're saying, it's like this
paradox where we think we have to choose, but actually
the instruction in and of itself. He repeats that twice.
God repeats that twice in the text. It's like, think
of me and fight. So think of me and doude,
do you think of me and take the step? Because

(32:33):
if you think of me and take the step, you
will have faith and trust, but you'll also feel your
action and the confidence. But if you only think of
me and you just sit there, that's not going to work.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, like, let's let's explore those two extremes that where
we don't get it. One are the fatalist, Yes, I
don't know. In Hillah, Yeah, wait a minute, we got
to have our hands on wheel. Yes, you know what
I mean, you know we it is we have our
freedom of choice and you know, so where is it

(33:04):
that we go? You rely on fate too much and
where is it We're like, no, I am fully responsible
for everything. The next step is all that matters had
to You don't see any horizon, You don't see any
You're not pursuing anything. You're just you're you know, not
air force, Navy and rench, your army. You're dealing with

(33:25):
the ground only you know what I mean talking about Spade.
You know that that's the two extremes when it feels
like they can be out of balance. But that paradox
in the middle is what so many of us are
seeking and pursue and try to live it. But what
are practical ways to to keep that in the in
the middle where we're feeling both at the same time,

(33:47):
where we're thinking of God and fate and fighting. You
know the old what's that old Southern ad as the
old man and the boy walking, Here comes the tornado
and the boy drops on his knees to pray, and
does it get your butt? What scared?

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Prayer?

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Ain't where the am right now? We gotta go get sheltered,
you know. And then other times, and I've had my
Nietzsche and Agnostic years where I was like, it's all me, yes, yes,
it is all about my hands on the damn will now.
I don't regret those and as a believer, I don't.
I didn't feel spiritually God was mad at me for that.

(34:24):
I thought he had a right smile on his face.
He was like, wait to get your hands on the wheel?
I could you s'more that from some more of y'all.
But at the same time you thought you had it.
I thought it was all to you. But hey, I
appreciate the effort, but it was it was it was.
I remember the feeling of appreciation and I needed it

(34:45):
at the time because I was giving myself too much
amnesty in places and I was good at my chastis
was a little loose on the edges, and I was like,
you gotta look in the mirror. McConaughey, grab damn wheel
Manuick like, just let it, let it all slide on faate.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I mean, yes, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
I think there's the reason why so many spiritual and
faith traditions you went to church on Sunday or a
temple or whatever. It's like that was the day where
you were fully dedicated in faith, aligned in trust. And
then you went and worked six days and you carried
that with you and you tried to practice it as
a reminder, but then you went back and then you
got reminder, and then.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
You did six days of yourself.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Thursday evening you were like, I need Sunday to go. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
And I feel like that's where that that third space
has been lost. It's like, you know, one hundred years
ago third space theory. We had three spaces. We had church, work,
and home, and then fast forward as time went on,
you had work and home, and then fast forward after
the pandemic and you just have home. And they all
had a purpose. It was like church or temple or

(35:46):
community or whatever it was. It was a place that
gave you the space to look back on your life
and take a step back, because at home you have
to be dad or marks.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
In a physical place.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
It was a physical place that gave you space to
ask different questions. Because I work, you're just asking how
do I make more money? At home you're asking how
do I be a better mom or dad? But then
what about how do I do all the other thing?
Where's the space that question?

Speaker 1 (36:11):
So, in this age where most people are less than
going to church, less, going to the temples less, is
it possible? Do you think? Or or how can we improve?
If you do think it's possible without the ritual of
that third space? Because I understand the concept. Man, when

(36:34):
I'm when I feel most spiritually strong, I'm all days.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Of prayer, Yes, yes, for sure.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
My every interaction is a give and take and a
rhythm of oh I didn't have to close my eyes now,
but that Sunday ritual where I did need to get
my heart above my head in humility and about in humility,
I saw I've got objective and saw myself from an

(37:01):
eye in the sky. I was like, oh, are you
doing you You're not, You're not quite doing or you
could do this thing that you think you're doing a
little more truly, you could have been more benevolent in that.
Oh that was but I needed that. But then a
lot of times, I mean without the ritual, and so
many people now go, I'm not religious and spiritual, I'm

(37:23):
not religious and spiritual. I think there's people that are
a lot more religious than they think they are. I
think there a lot of that is that term that's
coming from what mankind has done with religion, which are
in the Bible Jesus fought against. I was like, Ah,
that's not what I'm talking about, guys. This is not

(37:43):
it's not religion in the capitalist thing. It's not a material,
but what we've done with it that I think a
lot of people are fighting against religion. The word means
from re lagare the Latin root Lagare means to buying
together and remans again. So a lot of people that
I hear are saying, I'm spiritual and I'm for unity.

(38:05):
I'm not going that's religion to bind together again, that's
to unify.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
But going back to our earlier thought, language is limiting,
and once a word is scarred and wounded with battle
wounds of the past, it becomes less prominent to yes.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
See, I'm a prescriptionist. Keep going back like, let's not.
I'm not ready to give up on original yes definitions
so quickly yes, and I can get Sometimes I'm pushing
that square rock up the hill. Other times you just
go adapt. Don't want to be called as a dinosaur. Right,
So how do we again, where do we hold on

(38:44):
to time and tested truths, spiritual ones in this sense
and still say no, let's adapt and evolve. People move
around in society differently now. Maybe we don't need the
third space on a Sunday, but we take the time
every day to meditate, to pray. In church is where
you are, It's in nature. That's where I find my church.

(39:04):
Are those a do you think these are good supplements?

Speaker 2 (39:08):
H I don't know what you think.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
I'd like to say they are, but I'm not sure
where that evolved. I still think we need and want
the responsibility, the hand, the hold. Oh, this is the day,
this is the place, this is where I go, this
is what we do. I try to shortsheet that bed

(39:32):
all the time myself, but I know better, and I've
never followed through on go forward with the ritual, go
I've never followed through on it, come away going ah
six or half. I'm always like, yeah, yeah, got to
keep doing that, man. And I'm trying trying to do
that more as a father and you know, ahead of

(39:54):
the family, and I'm not doing the best job of it.
And I'm understanding this thing. But yeah, it's where we are.
It's how we think, It's how we're gracious, it's how
we're thankful. Before meals we talk about our day, or
we talk about philosophy or stoicism, and I'm like, yeah,
these are some of the same things, but are they
I'm kind of making an excuse, I think, because philosophy

(40:15):
is different than religion. Although my favorite parts of what
I studier's religion is the stuff I can go, Oh,
I can take that into the week. Oh, I can
use that practically, And I still have trouble with burning
bushes and parted seas and stuff like that. But that
may be a failure of my own true faith. That

(40:36):
seems to be Maybe that's my own pride, or my
own pragmatism, or my own belief in philosophy and the
way we live life, which I'm eternally interested in. But
I don't believe I'm going far enough. I think I'm
short sheeting myself. I think there's a gap there, and

(40:56):
I do I think God's going I appreciate you trying.
You had you got too much pride. You're not going
far enough here. You haven't fully surrendered to the faith
to believe in faith. That's my and I think you
do need that my haunches. I don't care how tired
you are Sunday morning. That's that's where you should in order.
And you know, yeah, go for that reason. So that's

(41:20):
my haunt.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Yeah, we're aligned. I think that what we have available
today are poor conduits of a far greater depth that
you get from the physical community, the connection, the communion
of a direct message that feels really clear and is

(41:43):
from source, like there's a there's a power in that
that I've personally experienced too, and I've dabbled him, but
by the way, I'm the same. I'm the same as you.
I live in a place where I don't have that
community as I've had in other places that have lived.
I I constantly make excuses and find other ways to
justify my practice because I can't fully be at the

(42:05):
depth that I'd like to be. And it's and so
I'm doing it too to survive and to stay connected.
But there's a difference between surviving and thriving. And I
know that when I'm driving in my practice and my faith,
it's when I'm doing it the way it was done. Now,
this doesn't going back, and just to add the caveat
I think we all know it is that I'm not
saying that the way it was done in all ways
was done well. I'm saying that the form of connecting communion,

(42:29):
reflecting connection, that you can't substitute that with anything else.
But we're living in a world today where we need
new tools, we need things that are more accessible, and
people need them and are available to them. And I
see them as a beginning of the journey and a bridge,
not the destination. So I think if we're building a
longer bridge, then that's healthy because if someone never starts

(42:50):
the journey on the bridge, will they ever make it
to the place.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
What are we building the bridge with?

Speaker 2 (42:55):
So, for example, I.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Guess if people are trying to do that daily meditation
they're trying to maybe they're meditating through an app. Maybe
they are trying to work out with an online workout, right,
Like if they were in the gym at a class,
maybe that would be a more fun atmosphere for them.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Right. Uh.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
Maybe people are reading a book about poems and prayers
inspired by but not directly from the source. But that's
their beginning bridge of their journey to that direction, in
their own pace, at their own time, whenever, if and
when they want to go.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
And I feel like that's what you.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Do and what I try and do, and what so
many do is we're trying to build bridges hopefully that
are not the home. I think the problem is when
the bridge becomes the home, you don't want to live.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
On the bridge. Yeah, right, I can't remember who said it.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
There's a famous quote that says the world is like
a bridge. Don't build your house on it, cross over it,
and that I don't.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Know who said. Its idea.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
I think all of these platforms and apps and tools,
they're all bridges.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, but don't live there.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, don't live there. Don't feel that that's home.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
I mean, let me ask you this though, because like
in the Bible it talks about we're all you know,
we're strangers here. We never we don't find a home here.
I mean some version and I maybe theologically messing this up,
but what I get from it is, you know, but
you try your pursuit to try and make heaven on earth,

(44:32):
which you will not because you will never find it here.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Until you get there.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
That's that's as goods you can do. But you will
always be a stranger. You always be an immigrant. You
will always be looking for a home here on earth. Yes, Now,
how does that necessarily mean that that doesn't mean you
were living on a bridge?

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Or does it?

Speaker 3 (44:51):
I believe so. I feel like the it's like an
airport terminal. It just feels like home because we feel
like it's a long time but because it's not eternal,
like can't possibly be the destination, right.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
From a from a religious spiritual if.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
You're trying to make home or the pursuit of home,
what you see home trying to trying to bring it here. Yes,
trying to emulate as much as possible of that.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
It's like, I'm going to France next year, so I'm
going to practice French now. Like that I think is
the the big picture and the daily step at a time.
It's like I'm trying to I'm trying to aspire to live.
I'm going to move country next year, but I'm going
to practice the rules, the rituals, the language of that
country this year, because then I'll be prepared so.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
I don't not have a great life. Now.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
I'm not postponing joy. I'm not postponing happiness or love.
I'm practicing that culture that I believe is better for me.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yes, now, if that makes sense? Yes, What's what's been?

Speaker 3 (45:53):
I feel like you're such a I feel like your
mind is like you're constantly observing patterns and observing even
like languages. We've been talking. What's something that you've observed
about humans that fascinates you that surprises you?

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Maybe one our ability to adapt when there's not another option.
We're elastic, man, we are elastic, more elastic than I
like to practically think. But boy, when we're put to it,

(46:28):
I'm amazed how quickly we can change, adapt, evolve, come
to understand the other side. When we're put to it.
You give us the option, we take the out man,
and we we argue and really, I'm not I ain't
budget now, huh, you know what I mean. And then

(46:50):
on the flip side of that, somewhat is how we
seem to find and in this pursuit of the ideal,
we seem to almost say, well, that is our home,
that is who we are, and then go okay, so

(47:11):
therefore and then we are practiced. It's not as evolved
as we think it is. But we keep saying, and
I love the we can get tap into the eleventh
percent of our mind which we don't tappen too. We
can be greater, we can transcend. But practically every day
I think there's some great wisdom and going we're not
as evolved as we think we are. Let's quit acting

(47:35):
like we are. I love the pursuit. It's like rehabilitation
and justice. I'm for rehabilitation, man, I mean, I love
the New Testament, you know what I mean. At the
same time, we are repeat opened in some of the
guns over and over and over, and if I've done
you wrong, and you've allowed me to come to you

(47:58):
and ask for forgiveness. The first first order on the
docket should be me. If you choose to forgive me,
the first order on the docket should be me from
now on doing anything I can to not have to
come apologize to you again. It's not just that you
forgave and gave me the chance to be forgiven. I

(48:18):
got some sweat equity on my side to quit doing
the actions that caused me to have you forgive me,
to have me apologize again. And we don't forget. We
seem to not forget that side. I love Kumbai. Yah.
This is the ideal place we can go. But I
feel like we relax in Condin's take for granted thinking

(48:39):
we're that evolved, and no we're not. That's the constant pursuit.
We ain't there. So let's deal with the hard math
right here. And one thing we can depend on people
being it is people. Nothing we do is unbelievable. We
do stupid shit all the time. We break our own
noses because we tripped ourselves fronting downhill. We still we're jealous.

(49:02):
We cover it. We talk blue and vote red. We
talk New Testament and act Old. We're entrenched in some ideas.
Now go back to that. The first half of what
surprised me about people when I was talking about the
adapt the flexibility of adaptation. I remember it was probably

(49:25):
twelve years ago. It was in Alabama. Was doing research
for a film down there, Free State of Jones and
in Mobile, Alabama, on the dock at that night. The
next morning the vote had gone through about whether Alabama
was going to allow gay marriage. I'm sitting in Alabama
and I was like, I don't think this is going

(49:45):
to pass deep South Alabama. I mean, it sounds like
that's a very progressive idea to them. I'm judging it.
I'm just saying as an anthropologist and sociologist, I'm like
the next morning it passed fifty I was like, wow.
I talked to my friends. A lot of them on
the left were abhorred. I can't believe that those biggots

(50:09):
only fifty three. And I was like, only fifty three.
I thought it was going to be eighty twenty. The
other way, that was a massive meet talking about meeting
people where they are. It's a massive flexibility that surprised me,
And that was just twelve years ago. So we have
to understand where people have come from. I write about
it in the book about I wish more crimes were

(50:29):
from ignorance. And what I mean by that is if
I know the right thing to do and I know
the wrong thing to do and I still do the
wrong crime, shame on me. I knew better. But there's
certain crimes we commit that someone just goes I didn't know. Okay,

(50:49):
now let's talk about some real rehab because you didn't
make the wrong choice, You just didn't know. Now talk
about some amnesty. Yeah, I've got to meet you in
a different place. We have to deal with solving the
problem differently than I do with the guy that knew
better and did it anyway.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Yeah. Do we expect too much from people?

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Practically speaking? Yes, yes, I mean we underwhelm and under
serve an under show a lot. But we all have
different expectations of ourselves and of others. I mean, so

(51:35):
again part of that, hey, just expect it that old
expect the worst words the best. I don't like that.
I like, actually expect the absolute best. And when it
comes in under that, you know, shoot for the A,
make a c's better and shoot for c make an
f when you how quickly, when you deal with reout
and go okay, well, that's a hell of a lot
better outcome. And I got more out of you and

(51:56):
you got more out of me than we would have
if we had come in going like let's just make
a sick you know what I mean. We may be
you know what I mean. We went for the perfection
and we came in under it, but it was still
pretty dog on, good, well done. That's where I call
it an overshow theory.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
How do you deal with when someone disappoints you based
on your expectation.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
I'm quicker to say, yep, that was reality. That's able
to do, whether forgiveness or amnesty or whatever you'll call
it with others than I am for myself explained, I
expect perfection from myself a lot and I don't reach it.

(52:47):
And I know I can, or I believe I can.
That's a better word. I believe I can, and I
don't want to quit believe in I can. That's sort
of where I find myself in approaching life. Keep going
for perfection, keep finding that reality comes in under that,
and you will have climbed more stairs. If we're gonna

(53:08):
have a vertical. By the end, you will have had
more quality. Your roots will have been deeper and wider
inside and out vertically and to the south than if
you didn't chase that perfection. The challenge for me is
when reality comes in and it's served and the bells
rung and there's no more time to take the test.

(53:29):
When you see that you didn't make a hundred and
you made an eighty eight, how quickly can you go
instead of going oh dude, or how quickly can you go?
All right? Maybe eight not bad? So again, that pursuit
of an ideal plus the practical what's the next step?

(53:52):
Solid step? And I work to become I worked to
try and remain as much as I can and to
feel satisfaction in that reality. But that's the hard part
is how quickly can you go from like I've never
I say this all the time, and I don't like
it to be misconstrued. I've never made a film that

(54:13):
lived up to my expectations. I've never given a performance
that lived up to my expectations. I've done films that
I think it's a lot better than I could have done.
And I'm not saying oh I should have directed. I'm
saying that that was It's awesome. There's a really great
piece of art, not just not transcendent. It didn't change

(54:35):
the world or tap into a piece of humanity that
enlightened myself and everyone else on a unanimous level, that's
what I'm going for. But I had never done it.
So why And again, I've worked and people have made

(54:55):
films I think are are outstanding and better than they
would have been if I would have been the director,
for sure, But that's part of I think. Maybe why
when I do do good work or make good creations
or good art. I think that was part of it.
That I was going for the infinite, pure spot in

(55:19):
space that was immaculate, believing I could achieve perfection, but
knowing I couldn't. But I still like to believe. I mean,
my my favorite word in the world's unanimous. What I
mean unanimous. We don't have as many black and whites today, man,
Maybe something unanimous that we can all agree on. Maybe

(55:41):
it's a value, Maybe it's a it's it's a way
of making a living. Maybe it's a piece of art.
It just unanimously go no, that's just that's great. It's
a one of one, but you seek unanimous Sammy Davis Junior,
I don't know what success is. I don't know what
failure is. That's trying to please everybody, you know. I mean,

(56:02):
you see you gonna get it, there's no way, but
you still believe, you come on, still keep believing. Yeah, yeah,
I feel like it keeps me in the chase, keeps
me in the race, keeps me going oh okay, okay,
you know.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
You have to live like that, like there's a there's
a joy to live like that. And it's a joy again.
You know, it's been the theme of our discussion today.
It's almost like being able to accept both. Like you said,
you believe you can, knowing you own right, And it's
that what makes it beautiful because if you only believe
you can, then you'll be really disappointed when it doesn't happen, right,

(56:40):
And if you only know you'll never get there, then
well you never do anything. So so it goes back
to that same yeah, that same piece. So on your
ranking score, where is interstellar of your performance?

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Where do you go in?

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Where is it?

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah? Where are you like your performance?

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Like that's not to us it's perfect to you, it's not,
so what what is the you know.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
No, I think it's I think it's very good. Yeah,
and I think and I think the movie is really good.
I think I think the character is really good. I
think our performance is really good. I have appreciation for it.
And I know if I'm Bogian or if I'm Birdie,
and I know, and I'm like, I've seen myself on
scre you kind of bullshitting there kind of and then
I've seen it. I'm like, bam, okay, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(57:26):
Well but I'm also, as you know from the book,
I'm not into extra credit. I don't like four point
two g p as. That tells me, like, what happened?
Are we the we're not giving the right test. Four
was the pinnacle, you know, that means not many people
should be getting it, if anybody. So now we're getting
four twos, four fours. That tells me we've over leveraged
the original task, or we've added amnesty or too many

(57:49):
places to to not do that the have the real
competence and merit at the task that you're supposed to get,
because especially I think in the West, because we want
everyone to feel really great participation in trophies four point
two GPA, Well I feel better you have the four
point d GPA, start getting a three point eight education.

(58:11):
The credit that extra credit we give is sort of
balanced with the debit of the actual what we learn
from it. Sometimes if we give too.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Much ex credit, what validation do you pursue?

Speaker 1 (58:40):
My wife's my children. I have a counsel in the
sky three people that are extremely important to me in
my life, my dad, Penny Allen, and John Cheney. And

(59:01):
I see them, wink at them, talk with them, listen
to them, seeing run ideas by them, run decisions by them,
and then I look up and see what their reaction is.
And it's been a very trusted counsel for me. It's
sort of my way to give people practical people, physical

(59:22):
bodies and souls that are no longer with this here
on earth physically, to put them in a heaven sense.
And it's a connection. They're a conduit from God to me,
and I have no expectations of them. And sometimes when
I'm so excited, like in this grade, I look up
and they're not dancing. I'm like, why don't you dancing?

(59:43):
I got other times where two of them will be
dancing and one of them in and I have to
go through, Oh, Wyatt, is that something they don't understand?
Or are they the underdog? And I need to be
listening to them because that's why they're going, you know
better than that. I don't I agree with that. And
then sometimes all three of them are you know, my

(01:00:06):
dad's gotta you know, dancing in his underwear with the
middle of light and a piece of lemon mering pie
pennies up on a chair, screaming out loud. My buddy
John Change is leaning him back and his old cotton
yellow shorts as you do, with his shoulders back going
there you go, buh Yeah. So I think their validation

(01:00:29):
and that's a conduit through a practical conduit in my
imagination because I don't have a picture in my mind
of God, and I don't. I don't. I don't think
we can or should. I think that minimalizes. You know,
we have pictures of physical beings that have walked the
earth that we can call prophets and stuff, But of God,
I don't have a picture. I don't think it's an it.

(01:00:52):
I don't think it's a mister or missus or anything
like that. So and then I mean, look the inherently
that all brings me back to seeking my own my
own validation. You know. I try to measure how I
counsel and referee myself off of some of the people

(01:01:14):
I just brought up to you. So that's where I
pretty well stick. That's where I proved it. I don't.
I don't really look outside. That's not much further outside
my circumference, just because I can't. It's it's too fickle,
it's too I can't really I don't have a trust again.
That goes to that Sami Davis, Judi, if you want
to look around and goes everyone approved. Yeah, uh, it's

(01:01:39):
gonna be. It's gonna gonna be lonely and hard and
not necessarily the best for you, you know what I mean.
And I know I've pulled some things off my life
where I you know, people thought I changed and made
it a wow, what a recreation I'm like, and then
the same thing you just put it in bold print.
Now they're doing the same thing fifteen years ago, you

(01:02:02):
know what I mean. Sometimes we change by saying the
same and then other times again, as we talked about
in the beginning of the conversation, you give yourself time
to daydream. You pick out a new tact about how
to maybe go about something, a new way of uncovering something,
a new way of solving something, a new way of
finding satisfaction in the situation, a new way of dealing
with a crisis, a new way of dealing with success,

(01:02:24):
you know, looking at it from a different point of view,
just to have another some almost arrow in the quiver.
And in this hunt is life?

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
How does someone like you, who built their career on
control crosp the concept of trust.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
I'm a trust first guy. I come here today, whether
we had never talked before, I have. I have nothing
in my head going into anyone's situation, and that they're
trying to get me. Who was going to ask a
tricky question? Trying to play a guy? I don't uhuh,
because that'll hang me up. I won't be able to

(01:03:04):
freely think and go Now. At the same time, have
I been doing this long enough where before I'm about
to say something, as I'm saying, I can go oh.
If you don't finish this sentence right, that's going to
be a headline in a ragbag or something. I mean
you know what I mean. Oh, that's not going to
be the headline you want. I'm conscious enough of that.
But I'm a trust first guy and I've been and

(01:03:26):
I've been burned, and I'm like, I'll make that bet
again because I know that I put that that if
I put more trust on Howdie, it's going to do
something to you where maybe you aren't the most treasure.
I've seen people become more trustworthy. I've seen people give

(01:03:47):
more because they go, oh, this guy's given me a
massive amount of true he just empowered me. He just
gave me. He saw a dignity in me that I
didn't see. He's given me a license, a privilege some
hoods to go okay. And I believe in that, and
I see that in people when it's a bit of that,
you know, may what we give from our soul get

(01:04:07):
a like response from others. I believe in that Risci proces.
So I'm a trust first guy. I don't the residuals
for going through life without trust shit that sucks. I mean, yeah,
I also, you know, I trust myself more now than
maybe I used to. And that thing has just come

(01:04:28):
from growth and evolution. And you know, I used to
always be a guy who and I'm still a guy who.
I don't like drawers. I like the stuff laid out.
I want to see it, because if it's in the drawer,
I forget I even needed it. I want to see it.
I was always a guy who's like, if I'm gonna
come in this room, make sure that my keys to

(01:04:49):
the keys to the door in the other room on
the kitchen table, leave that door cracked. I'm I have
more confidence now to go. You ain't shut the door.
I know where I left the keys. I don't have
to look over shoulder again. I had this spiritually when
I went to True Detective. I was in a really
strong spiritual place, and that character My relationship with God

(01:05:11):
at that time was really strong. That character when some
philosophical nihilism and things that are like away from faith,
I was able to go, I'm locking in and not
looking back for five months, and I don't need to
look over my shoulder because I know when I come

(01:05:32):
out of this, my relationship's good back there. I don't
need to peek over my shoulder to make sure I
don't have a tried to trust earlier and many other
times in my life I wouldn't have the trust to
go that far because I'm like, hey, is this okay?
And I'm going back to get struck by lightning. Here's
this blasphemous you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Are we good? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Okay, I'm just acting, you know what I mean. So
I had a great amount of trust. I'm a strong
spiritually then to go. And when I feel stronger spiritually
is that you know, the foundation's strong. We can jump higher,
we can go further. We cannot look over our back
as much. And trust and you know when we travel

(01:06:15):
and trusting relationships and away from the kids. I'm away
from the kids right now. It's been a week, okay,
but we check in yet. Its FaceTime help the trust, Yeah,
because you get to just more th there's a phone call.
But the idea of the very simple natural ideas of going, hey,
it's ten o'clock. We're on the phone. I'm on one
side of the world during the other. But we're both

(01:06:37):
under the same moon. We're both under the same sun.
Son you're under right now. I just hadn't got to
me yet, but it'll be the same one and the
moon that I'm under, right and I just hadn't got
to you. But it's it's coming. There's a again that time.
Now we're getting into the cyclical time to talk about
it and not the linear where we feel like, oh
I'm losing. Yeah, no, it's coming around. It's it's all

(01:07:02):
a bounce. There's a trust I get from that, And
then another trust I get is if i'm you know,
it's in between that it's it all. It means everything
means everything and nothing matters at all. Yeah, in between there.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Yeah, how do you? Yeah? Like I love like that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
So again, trust If I'm going to go to the
fatalist side of what I do, that doesn't matter. It
doesn't I'm gonna die. What's it matter. I used to
not have the trust to go, oh, but I'm gonna
still do every bit of the work to make sure
and I'm put my hands on the wheel right so

(01:07:46):
to go. Oh, it doesn't matter. It's what I'll tell
myself if I'm nervous I'm going to go give a
speech or something. I'm prepared. I busted my tail and
broke the sweat to get prepared. I'm full now if
I trust that, and I know I did that. Now
I need to tell myself, dude, this doesn't matter. You're
gonna die. What the hell is this matter? Because I

(01:08:06):
know I'm not gonna go be lazy and then prepared
and f off. So now that I trust that I
will that I'm prepared, and I take it very seriously.
Now I come to I like to end it with it. Well, now,
none of this matters. To relax if I go, you
know too much. The other side, I'm tight, I'm trying.

(01:08:29):
I'm trying too hard. I'm not giving myself the freedom
to listen and riff and take somebody's answer and go
with it, you know what I mean. So that's that's
how I try to balance the two.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
But that took but I didn't twenty years ago if
I'd have said, and with some of us in life,
if you tell them, dude, none of it matters. It's
all fate, it's all going to lot, it's all just
happens gondapen. People will just f off and go like, well,
it doesn't matter how I treat you or treat me,
And you're like, oh it does. But can you trust
that you're not going to be a tyrant when you

(01:09:04):
let yourself off? Yes, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Yeah, yeah, well said, well said.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
It's that balancing act in everything we're talking about everything,
we just keep coming back to that, Like to be
able to believe that what I'm about to do is
important and then have the ability to embrace my own
insignificance at the same time is beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Like there's a quote I always remember hearing as a kid.
It's like you're just the smallest grain of sand in
the palm of God. And for whatever reason, very early
on in my childhood, when I heard that, that felt
power from that. I didn't feel smart. I felt like, Wow,

(01:09:44):
how cool? How awesome? Yeah, And in that is the
idea of like it all means something and none of
it matters. Yeah, but it's very easy to look think
that analogy and go oh, well so matter.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Can that grain of sand and palm make you go,
oh no, I matter more than I thought.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Yeah, And it's both Yeah, and it's both and it's yeah.
I remember we were on a beach in South India.
I was with my monk teacher and we were on
a walk and it was a bunch of young monks
with my teacher and it's a big fishing town. So
South India is very known for being a fishing community,
and there'd be loads of fish nets with full of fishes,
and then there'd be the few that had fallen out

(01:10:33):
on the on the beach as we were walking, and
whenever we'd walk past one, my teacher would pick it
up and put it back in the water. It was still,
you know, tossing up and down on the on the beach,
and we were just looking at the whole beach in
front of us, and they were like hundreds, maybe maybe
thousands of fish that had fallen out of the nets
that won't go to be cooked in a restaurant, but
won't make it back the ocean and probably die in between.

(01:10:55):
And he was just every time we'd walk past, we'd
pick one and we'd be like we said to him,
were like, we're not going to be here all day,
and there's no chance we're going to get to all
of these and he was like, yeah, but to that
one fish, that's their whole life, Like you know, so
to you, it's like we're not going to get to
four hundred yeah, because you it's and so it's both
it's like our work is insignificant, right, but it's significant.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
And and then that goes back to that that that
that we can get paralyzed, you know, the the think
globally act lobally is another term. Yeah, maybe we can
get paralyzed. I think about I can't. It's too much
to insurmount and just do one in a row.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Yeah, one at a time, one step, just.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
One a time, and you know, the sunsets and you
had to be home by dark and there's still some
fishes slipping. Well, get on home, and you didn't get
them all what you got you were in the assets.
Like sometimes that I think is how I deal with
maybe let myself off, trying to figure out a proper
balance of forgiveness and saying no, the buck stops here.

(01:11:55):
You know, something goes I'm like, man, I'm not I
don't feel like I'm this is magic or this is
absolutely beautiful, this is absolutely true. I'll go, Okay, not
everything in life's going to be that. But are we
in the asset section? Are we in the black?

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
So to speak?

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Is the thing you're doing a proton and not elect try?

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
It is?

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
It doesn't not harmed you know sometimes you know, I
mean I do this in work. Some scenes are magic
they come to life. You just know. Some scenes you
get in and you're like, dude, I'm just connecting the dots.
Let's just get out of here without you know, I
don't have a great truth to tell. Let me just
get out of here without telling a lie. Sometimes I
have to let myself off and go Not everything's going

(01:12:42):
to be a wow, magical truth. Sometimes it's just till
the soil and don't tell the lie. Don't don't trip yourself,
don't hit the ball out of bounds. Take one and
it's in the rough. Yeah, you didn't out of bounds.
You're still You're still playing saying they can just stay
in the game on the upside, you know what I mean.
Sometimes it's just that. I remember when I had an

(01:13:04):
acting teacher. I did a performance one time and I
was real happy with it, and she came back she
was like, not bad. But every single scene it's like
you're trying to hit a grand slam, Matthew. Sometimes you
need a single. Sometimes you need to take a ball
that was not the strike zone. Sometimes you need to
lay down a bunch. Sometimes you need to And I
was like, oh, that's right. Not everything's a grand slam.

(01:13:25):
It's not every single thing matters. If we think, you know,
it's like if we think every single thing is significant
and everything matters will be nothing will have significance. We'll
be paralyzed by minutia and details and stats. There there

(01:13:45):
will be no bassline to any of it. There will
be no song. It'll all be notes. You know what
I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Yeah, the idea of significance evaporates. If everything was significant. Yeah,
there is no there. There would be nothing that right
stands out a negative space. I just wouldn't It wouldn't hold.
The idea wouldn't hold anymore. Yeah, what's the first When
I asked you the question about validation? The first person
I came to you, at least what you said out loud,
was your wife is here too. And uh, I was wondering, what,

(01:14:14):
what do you feel is the biggest mistake we make
about love?

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Biggest mistake we make about love? Groovy groovy question make
you and she's back there probably listening right now, going
I can't wait to hear this answer. I think one
of the biggest mistakes that I think I know I
could make is taking it for granted. Again. It's on
the same topic we've been on you vowed to love

(01:14:43):
each other and say a marriage for instance, and it's
through sickness and health until the death, and I love you.
My love's not in question. It doesn't mean it doesn't
take maintenance to take it for granted that, oh, that's
we're fine. I'll take it for granted that, oh we
got you know, you've got the kids in the family.
It's all great to take that for granted sometimes and

(01:15:07):
not do the maintenance.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Which.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
Shouldn't feel like work. But is it's it's it's conscious,
it's it's it could take work. It can be a
thought and a choice you make to go that little
thing I'm making my tea, she's not out. I really
want to get to that bottle for those apes. I

(01:15:32):
want to make Caroline put it in a yettie and
have it covered so when she gets up a trap
a little a little thoughtful, a little thoughtful thing like that.
Was that work? No? Is that delayed gratification for the relationship. Yes,
you know that's gonna you know that that that that

(01:15:52):
that'd be a nice thing to do for them. If
I don't do it, so I could be missed. As
a small example, I think think another one with love
and you and I touched on it, I think before
cameras were recording. Is the idea that you find the
one and that's the one, and and and and wow,

(01:16:16):
I make the male makes them wonder woman and they
think we're superman. Oh shit, don't do that to me,
and don't let me do that to you. I can't
live up to that. You can't live up to that,
back to unanimous and seeking perfection. That's a tough nut

(01:16:39):
to handle. When you're like, project that on someone. That's
unfair to project onto them, and they projected on you,
and neither one of you can live up to it.
It's the idea of the and I and and and
and This is not a popular statement my wife, but
I think it's for me. It's true. And I hope
that maybe maybe I'm too practical about love. Maybe I'm

(01:17:02):
not romantic enough about it. But I don't see how
the honeymoon period last forever.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
I just the.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Honeymoon is all on the hope, the possible. We don't
know each other as well as we're going to know
each other. It's before we get married and we make
the consecration and covenant of marriage, and now we're getting
in this real stuff and we got real pains and
real pleasures and real responsibilities and real fatigue and real

(01:17:32):
winds together and we're building, we've expanded, and they've got
a family and oh man, we're bondfied. But that's harder.
And it's not Honeymoon's only in the the perfection stage.
It's only in the up in the air, why the
youth of at the beginning, the springtime, the fresh bud

(01:17:54):
and I love it, but it's if you try to
hold on to that hundred watt bulb to be the
light all the time. You're wonder woman, I'm superman. It
seems to me humanly impractical to live up to it,
and unfair to each other. There's a preacher down to
San Diego, want buddy Mark Norby turned me on too
him forgetting his name, but he talks about it loves

(01:18:17):
more like a it's a thirty white bab than the
light a little bit. It'll last longer, it'll illuminate longer.
Not as bright, but it'll lasts longer, and it's more
realistic for you, and it's more human, and it's still
love me. It's always stuck with me.

Speaker 3 (01:18:37):
I've never heard that, Yeah, you know it is true,
which honeymoon period loss as it is, and things can
go deeper and be more powerful and be more profound,
but not be the same, and that if you just
dated someone new for three to six months every yeah,
you had to experienced honeymoon period every year.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
If you rest of your.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Life, your moon keeps. It is transient. It was all
brand new, but it didn't have all four seasons. You
didn't get into Act two where the conflict comes, where
somebody is getting sick. Where you didn't get to Act three,
where you got to land the plane and figure it
out and come down and be on your deathbed going

(01:19:20):
I love you too? Did we did?

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
All?

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
You know what I mean? I always it's a I'd
always in my younger years and like, what do you
think there's a god and you see it? What do you?

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
What do you just say to you?

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
I was always like you to say thank you. It
just hit me five years ago, feve years ago. I
was like, no, that's a bit arrogant there, Paus. What
he's probably gonna say immediately, He's going to say you're welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
M hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
In that is a away I'm seeing and life more
now and just something's going to have before within that
as an inherent sort of what are we doing? You know,
it's life long? Is it short? As hard as ease?
I don't know. It's hard in some ways. It's really long,

(01:20:17):
Jesus really short. Easy sometimes, but yeah, you're welcome, and
I can say thank you. Yeah, but I've got to. Yeah,
we've talked about it. I'm happy to. I'm happy to

(01:20:40):
and I'm not going to shy away from him with
still being sensitive to people positions that are like either
of you to say, McConaughey and he's saying, you're welcome
to me. You know what I mean. I'm not living a.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
Life of God.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
I want to be open and understand that. At the
same time, I'm very happy and level eyed with with
saying and believing that, uh than having a life where
if I mean, yeah, she's going to go You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
And that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
Leads into that I wrote it in green Lights about
I do have a hunch that the world's conspired to
make me happy again. I may be off my rocker.
I may be that may be a conspiracy theory for
the upside, may be delusionally optimistic and I I don't care.

(01:21:34):
I actually believe it. It's the trust first thing, and
I actually believe it. And I believe I'm a part
of a lot of other people's army that are there
conspiring to make them happy. And I believe that I've
got a lot of an army that's going not consciously,
just I believe. I look, I believe, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
I got a lot of people in life that believe.
I know that if I'm around, I'm looking out for
I have their best interest in mine, whether they know
it or not consciously. And I know I have a
lot of people in life, some I know what I know,
a lot I don't that are like looking out for you, McConaughey,
And I'm veryfully thankful for that. But I believe that,
and it is I know it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
Do you think we can all build that belief?

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
Yes, I do think we can build that belief everything's conspiring.
I don't think we can rely on that belief. I
do think we can build that belief. I do think
that what reason. You know, kiddos, we're going to acl kiddos,
We're going in backstage. Come on, me and your mom

(01:22:42):
are here, past security guards. Let's just say it. Did
y'all say thank you? Yeah we did? Or no, I
Did'll go go say thank you? Why? I don't know.
Let's think selfishly, Bud. Ten years from now, when you're
at the concert and your mom and dad ain't here,
who got you in backstage to the front of the line,

(01:23:05):
and you're twenty people back in the line and they're
saying no more, that's it. It's a chance that security
guard may look down the and go, hey, leave by,
come on up, come on in because you said thank you.
I'm not saying be that way for like, oh then
I can get more, I'll get more privileges. I'm just saying,

(01:23:25):
where you go, how you interact with people at whatever height,
in the back kitchen, to the back door, to the alley,
to the homeless, to the billionaire to there, how you
interact with people you're slowly building on an army. I
had this I tell this example, and I was coming

(01:23:49):
home about two years ago, two lane highway and it
was all parked just on kind of a traffic champ
was taking it were just moving five miles an hour
stop five holes of our stop, and there was a lady
chart in a car here and we just moved into
this new home. Lady car and everyone's like, oh, you know,
get forward as quick as possible. And she was waiting
to get into the tournament, and so I was like,

(01:24:10):
we're not going anywhere. I slow down let her in
fifteen minutes it takes to get home. I've noticed I'm
right behind this lady. As I approached my house, she
pulls in the driveway to the first driveway before I
get to my house. I pull on my house, I
get out of my car. It's my neighbor. I didn't
know what was my neighbor. But I'm like, I got
somebody inherently watching over my house when I'm not here

(01:24:32):
from now because I let her in back there, and
she goes, thank you for letting me in back there.
I remember that, Did I do that because I'm hoping
I can get a neighbor and part of an army
that can keep an eye out or no, did I
get an army someone on the hide?

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
The conspiring point too. I think if you if you
believe that everything's conspiring for you to be happy, you
just start to notice those moments. And I think noticing
is so much more important than thinking, because we all think,
but we don't always notice. Yes, it's like, what do
we notice every day? If you notice the security guard

(01:25:15):
who opened the door, if you notice the you know,
the lady who eventually becomes part of your army at home,
It's like, what are you noticing? Because you can notice both, Like,
I think I could say it with you, and I'm
sure you could tell me two stories, one story of
everyone who screwed you over, took advantage of you, exploited
you where the trust first didn't work. And I think

(01:25:37):
you're telling me another story today which you're noticing, which
is you saying oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
Yeah yeah. So what we what do we notice? What
are we aware of? What do we give credit to?
I think that's part of the athleticism of life, because
that doesn't mean I'm not skeptical, correct. It does mean
I'm not cynical. It doesn't mean I'm not clever and

(01:26:05):
wise and letting my home be just pillaged a lot
to protect and I protected. It doesn't mean I'm foolish
with myself or with my things and my life and
the family and things that built. But yeah, what do
I what do we notice? What do we give credit
to and go, oh, let's tend that garden, let's multiply that,

(01:26:31):
let's get some compound interest on that r o. I.
Let's make that epidemic, not the disease, not the wreck,
not the harm. Talk about it in points of prayers.
Make the positives plural and the negative singular. And don't
talk about the negatives in the present tense if they happened,

(01:26:56):
talk about them in the past tense. You stop their
path to prophecy. That's the noticing thing. And that doesn't
mean don't Oh no, I don't see the negative. No, no, no,
that's childhood. Hey, Hallmark card, dream it, you can do it.
Positive thinking. Yeah, see how far that gets you? You

(01:27:18):
know what I mean, You'll be done unto and the
you know, So we go from innocence to naivete to skepticism,
and then if we can hold off there from going
off the ledge into that fourth one, which is a
disease cynicism. I'm all for skepticism and noticing the negative,

(01:27:39):
seeing the harm, noticing the disease. But she'd like to
spend time and notice for and compound the interest on
the prevention of those cures or the multiplied factor of
the good things that are conspiring to work for us
and are just like there we go that works not
only for me, for you too. Make those epidemic again.

(01:28:02):
Flip flip flip. The word epidemics always used. It's just
something like, oh no, just like consequence, we all go.
I don't not the consequence. I know, get consequence with everything,
and the positive side, that pleasure side of consequence is
just as valuable as the negative.

Speaker 3 (01:28:17):
You gotta you know, epidemic, selfish consequence. Those are the
three there, yeah, that you're gonna fight for. Not think
I could talk to you for hours and hours, and
I've been so grateful for your time and energy. We
we end every episode with a final five, which you
did last time, so we've reconstructed them for you. Uh,
these questions have to be answered in one sentence, but
I'll probably want you to riffs that feel free, don't

(01:28:39):
don't feel any pressure.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
Okay, but try to get them out in one sentence.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
You can try, but if but I would like you to,
I want you to free flow. But yeah, you're always
the best.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
When you're free flowing.

Speaker 3 (01:28:49):
So I don't want to. I don't wanna humper you
and yeah. Question number one, what do you believe makes
a good dad?

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Mm? Time being there? You know, I say this is
that's the BIG's a good father. You know we're sometimes
we're under the illusion that if we make the baby

(01:29:21):
with father. No you're not. You may be there the daddy, papa,
but it takes time to be a father, to be
there for your children. Two. Balance sharing with them what

(01:29:45):
you already know so they can learn a little quicker.
And hold them back and let them fall from that
tree limb and bruise their arm on their own, because
that's how they'll remember it, because even though you knew.
Sometimes there's certain heights. I call it a tree. There's
certain kids go out on limbs. And if we rush

(01:30:05):
every limb they go out on, I mean they're on
the limb and they're they're they're five years old, and
it's it's five feet above the soft Saint Augustine grass.
If we rush over there and go get down, they no,
I don't know, you're gonna You're gonna stump their growth
and there they have. Fear of heights. Kids don't fear arms,
kid of heights until they die, until they fall, all right,

(01:30:27):
let them go out there. That's a save fall, may
get a bruise. Now there's certain ones. If they're sixty
feet up and it's a concrete you might want to go, Hey, Bud,
I was thinking, come on, just take your time and
come on over to the trunk and chimmy on that.
Maybe get to help them get them down from that.
But certain limbs, let them get on the end of it.
So let them, let them fall, let them, let them

(01:30:47):
get bruised, let them they'll remember that from experience, and
so yeah, I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
Question number two, what does it mean to be a
real man?

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
Could be a real man? Well, you know, staying on
the fatherhood thing, and this is not just the only definition,
but i'll piggyback off the last question. The only thing
I ever knew in life I wanted to be was
a father. And it is because my I remember I
was eight years old. My dad was a big yes
sir and no sir man. So he would introduce me

(01:31:17):
to his friends, right, and I would always is eight
year old looking up from four, five, six, seven, eight
years old, shake their hand, yes, sir, nice to meet sir.
And what hit me at eight years old was that
all of those men who shance I had shaken called
them sir. They were dad, they were fathers. And in
my eight year old monument, oh that's how you make it.

(01:31:37):
That's success, become a father, that's how you become a man.
That's say you become a king. So that's not answer
across the board that that's gonna be my answer.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
Yeah, I love that, and I'll learned to do three
because of time lost.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
One. What does it mean to be a good friend?

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
Mm hmm. Yeah, he's a good friend reminds their friend
of the the best in themselves, the truth in themselves,
whether it's there to say, yeah, just like that when

(01:32:29):
they are the most of themselves, or whether it's there
to go, hey, you know you got this other way
when you're in a situation, you handled like this and
it was so pure man, and it kind of didn't
go that way.

Speaker 2 (01:32:45):
This did. Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:47):
So it's saying hard things and helping them kind of renegotiate,
or showing to them objectively, hey, I see who you are.
You've shown me who you are, and then when you're you,
I'm over here going on and I take great pleasure
in seeing you succeed without me.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
Wow, Wow, that's powerable.

Speaker 1 (01:33:10):
A good friend really takes honest and earnest pleasure and
seeing their friends succeed without them.

Speaker 3 (01:33:23):
To end, we got a little note from a good
friend of yours, oh who sent it in, And I
think it'll be better if you read it out loud
than me, because it's for you, and so I'm going
to hand it to you and you can read it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
As we got here.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
I marvel at how you move through this world. Amazing actor,
besting author, innovative entrepreneur, first rate father, husband and son,
but more than anything, a brilliant philosopher. And it is
that philosophy that pervades everything you do, one that intertwines

(01:33:59):
curiosity with poetry. From the time I met you nearly
thirty years ago, I knew you were my brother, and
you continue to inspire me to this day. Love you, buddy,
would a ps miss our cuddle time me and Camilla.
That is perfect. Ah, thank you, buddy, Thank you. He

(01:34:27):
is a great friend. He is a great friend. Boy,
he is a good friend to me. I love the
way that he loves me. It's really really beautiful to receive.

Speaker 3 (01:34:42):
Well, Matthew, thank you for your time, your energy, whether
I'm reading your books, whether we're in your presence, so
whether I'm listening to you as I said to you
before the first time I interviewed you. I listened to
your acceptance speech from the Oscars every day for thirty days,
once upon a time in my life, and the only
two speeches I've done that with. One is Steve Jobs's
commencement speech at Stanford and one is your acceptance speech.

(01:35:04):
I listened to it every day for thirty days. In it,
I find when you do that, it internalizes ideas and
concepts and energy in a way that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
You don't get if you don't repeat. So very grateful
to you for your life, your work.

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
And you're welcome and thanks for sharing that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
Thank you man, Yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
Had a wonderful time.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
Appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
If this is the year that you're trying to get creative,
you're trying to build more, I need you to listen
to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break
into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods
that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving
what you do. If you're trying to find your passion
and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
Just because I like it, That doesn't give it any value,
Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all
of the value.

Speaker 2 (01:35:54):
That's the success comes when you say I like this
enough for other people to see it.

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Jay Shetty

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