February 20, 2026 • 38 mins
Why can it sometimes feel easier to connect with the outside world than with the person we love most?
Jay explores why love can feel stressful instead of safe, even when both people care deeply. Drawing from his Audible Original Messy Love: Difficult Conversations for Deeper Connection, he breaks down the everyday habits that quietly create distance: subtle disrespect, scorekeeping, unspoken resentment, mismatched conflict styles, and the fear of saying what we really feel. Through real sessions with three couples, he shows that what we often label as incompatibility is rarely about love itself, it’s about unresolved hurt, inherited fight patterns, and the deep need to feel respected, recognized, and taken seriously by the person we care about most.
Jay introduces five transformative principles that can help couples turn conflict into connection. From understanding how respect, not chemistry, is the true foundation of lasting love, to breaking the silent resentment of scorekeeping, he invites listeners to reflect on where imbalance, miscommunication, and unexpressed needs may be shaping their connection. He explains how our conflict styles, whether we vent, hide, or explode, are protective patterns learned over time, and why repair, not perfection, is the true marker of a healthy relationship.
In this episode, you'll learn:
How to Build Love on Respect, Not Just Chemistry
How to Stop Scorekeeping Before It Turns Into Resentment
How to Express Needs Without Blame
How to Identify and Improve Your Conflict Style
How to Repair After an Argument Instead of Withdrawing
How to Communicate Feelings Instead of Accusations
Healthy love isn’t built in grand gestures or perfect moments. It’s built when two people choose understanding over ego, consistency over intensity, and respect over being right. And knowing those choices are available to you at any moment.
Listen to Jay’s Messy Love: Difficult Conversations for Deeper Connection on Audible. Visit https://www.audible.com/pd/Messy-Love-Audiobook/B0G16Z76ZD
With Love and Gratitude,
Jay Shetty
Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here.
What We Discuss:
00:00 Intro
01:17 Difficult Conversations for Deeper Connection
02:24 Principle #1: Influence, Respect, and Recognition
14:50 Principle #2: Scorekeeping
20:15 Principle #3: Conflict Styles
25:50 Principle #4: The X, Y, Z Communication Method
33:14 Principle #5: Create a 30-Day Agreement
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, Welcome back to on Purpose. Today we're talking
about messy love, difficult conversations for deeper connection. We're living
in a time where people are more connected than ever before,
yet so many of us feel deeply disconnected in our relationships.
We have access to endless information, constant communication, and more
(00:23):
tools than ever to improve our lives. We set goals
for our careers, our health, our routines, and our personal growth,
but rarely do we pause to reflect on how we love,
how we listen, and how we show up for the
people closest to us. Many of us were never taught
what healthy love actually looks like. We weren't taught how
(00:45):
to communicate when emotions run high, how to repair after conflict,
or how to feel safe being honest without fear of loss. Instead,
we carry patterns from our past into our presenting. Things
will somehow work themselves out, and when relationships feel messy, confusing,
or painful, we often blame ourselves or the other person,
(01:10):
without realizing that most of what we're experiencing is learned behavior,
not personal failure. Today, I want to share five powerful
relationship lessons from my new audible original Messy Love, Difficult,
conversations for deeper connection. My hope is that these are
not just ideas for you to think about, that active
(01:33):
practices you can bring in to your real life relationships.
In my Audible original Messy Love, I sit down with
three different couples over three sessions each. Together, we explore
how to build emotional safety, navigate conflict, and rebuild trust
in their relationships. I'll walk you through five core principles
(01:55):
from the series, and after each one, offer you a
simple exercise you can try for yourself, whether with a
romantic partner, a family relationship, or any bond that holds
value for you and to hear how these tools come
to life. Make sure to check out Messy Love, available
only on Audible. Audible's well Being collection has everything to
(02:18):
inspire and support you in every step of your well
being journey. So let's get started. Principal one is all
about influence, respect, and recognition. Early in the series, I
meet amanden Ryan, a couple who feel out of sync
in their schedules and emotional connection with one another. I
(02:39):
quickly identify that beneath their frustration is a shared desire
to feel influence, respect, and recognition from one another.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
For what they do.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
When we don't feel seen or valued, we start to
build resentment, not because we don't care, but because we
don't feel safe to keep giving. Let me share a
moment from my conversation with Amanda and Ryan that really
captures what this looks like in real life. As you listen,
notice how both of them aren't actually arguing about tasks
(03:12):
or schedules. They're wrestling with something deeper, the need to
feel valued and understood in the relationship. Hearing Ryan and
Amanda share, it's becoming clear to me that the underlying
core issue is respect, recognition, and influence. In any relationship,
(03:32):
people aren't really arguing just about the finances. They're arguing
about do I have an influence in the decisions we make.
People are not just arguing over what roles they do
or how many chores they have. They're arguing over how
much respect they feel. And ultimately, everyone wants to feel
recognized by their partner for the work they put in,
(03:52):
and so that's at the core of this relationship. Thank
you both for being so vulnerable, and I really appreciate it.
This is the reality of what we're all dealing with,
which is we like each other we love each other,
things make sense, but there's the realities of life, whether
that be financial, emotional, mental, and as I'm listening to
(04:16):
you both, when we really get beneath the surface, it
seems like less of a income conversation and more of
an influence, respect and recognition conversation. And I mean, Ryan,
you just said totally straight away.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, And it took a lot of years to understand,
like when things happen, it's not personal, Like if I
feel like she took a low blow, understanding that like
it's not her legitimately wanting to hurt me, as just
her protecting herself in the same way that I do
it in my way when I get insecure, when I
(04:55):
feel less than, my natural reaction is to get angry
and like loud and big, because then I don't feel weak.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
What are your exact roles right now?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I get the sense overall, but what are your exact
roles right now? And how have you learned to place value?
It sounds like in those heated moments there's an unequal
value on certain roles.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Now, I generally go to Ploate's or work out before
I teach because I need to like set myself up
for the day. And because by nine o'clock my phone,
like I have a work phone and obviously personal phone,
the amount of people needing my attention is so intense
that I really like those hours. So usually before Ryan
(05:42):
and Piggy wake up, I've already worked out and like
taught two classes, and I'm already like well into my
day late morning or midday. That's where little chaos comes in,
as if Ryan and Piggy have gone for a walk
and I come home and I'm a little bit of
a tornado, and then I go to the wellness center
and I see patients.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
She's kind of always a tornado because everything's stacked. If
the smallest little glitch in the schedule happens, things start
to fall apart.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
I'm the support role. Back to what you're asking.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Traditionally, i'd be like in the fifties.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Like the man that goes kind of joke about that
that I'm more of the homemaker, and I make everything
run around the house and all of the errands and
the store and things like that, you know, and she
works and in those moments where she's flustered and busy
and like, I gotta do this, I gotta do that,
and I'm trying to like like make her some food
(06:36):
and make this and gather this. Another thing that happens
a lot when she's like that. She'll just be barking
orders and do this, do that, and like where is this?
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Where is that?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
So now I'm freaking out having an anxiety attack because
I can't find this piece of paper or we ran
out of this and she needs that. And so that's
where the resentment builds up, is like I do so much,
but in this moment, you'll make a comment like I'm
not doing enough. And all this other stuff that I
did that you have no idea that you know helped
(07:06):
your day out and made it more efficient. You're going
to harp on this one thing, and now I have
to feel bad about that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
What you're hearing there isn't really about who does more.
It's about what happens when appreciation turns into accounting. When
recognition fades, resentment fills the gap. Here's an exercise I
want you to try. For the first set of the exercise,
I invite you to ask yourself, in what moments do
(07:34):
you feel seen and recognized in your relationship? And then
when do you feel invisible? Or overlooked, like you aren't
being seen and recognized in that connection. Notice what comes
up for you, then see if you can share this
information with the other person in your life. I want
to start with something that sounds obvious but changes everything.
(07:57):
A lot of people think the foundation of a romance
relationship is chemistry, But chemistry is the spark. The foundation
is respect. And here's how you can tell the difference
between a relationship that feels exciting and a relationship that
actually feels safe. In a healthy relationship, you feel respected, recognized,
(08:20):
and influential, not in charge, not dominant, influential, like your
presence matters, like your feelings register, like your voice changes
the room. Because love without respect doesn't feel like love.
It feels like anxiety with good memories. The respect part
(08:41):
is really important. Respect isn't just being polite. Respect is
how someone treats your reality. Do they take your feelings seriously?
Do they handle your boundaries like they matter? Do they
speak to you like you're someone they're proud to be with,
especially when they're an There's a reason respect is such
(09:02):
a big deal in research. Respect is one of those
things you don't appreciate until it's missing. Because when respect
is missing, everything starts to feel personal. A joke feels
like a jab, A disagreement feels like dismissal. A boundary
feels like you're asking for too much. And here's a modern,
(09:24):
very twenty twenty six reality. A lot of women aren't
breaking up because they stopped loving someone. They're breaking up
because they got tired of being handled casually. The relationship
didn't end in one big betrayal. It ended in a
thousand tiny moments of disrespect. The eye roll, the sarcasm
(09:46):
that you're too sensitive, the I forgot that happens every
time it's important to you. Respect is the difference between
I don't agree with you and I don't.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Take you seriously.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
No, oh, it's the difference between those I don't agree
with you as respectful, I don't take you seriously as personal. Now,
let's talk recognition, because this is where so many relationships
quietly fail. Recognition is the feeling of my partner gets me,
not just my highlight reel, not just my cute side,
not just my social self me. In psychology, there's a
(10:23):
concept called perceived partner responsiveness. It's basically the science version
of I feel seen. It means you feel your partner
understands you, cares about you, and appreciates you. And here's
why this matters. When you don't feel recognized, you start performing.
You start editing yourself, you start picking your words carefully,
(10:46):
you start managing your emotions so you don't ruin the vibe.
And you can call it being chill, but it's actually
being alone while in a relationship. Recognition is what makes
love feel like a place you can and exhale. A
lot of people I speak to say some version of this.
They say they love me, but I don't feel known,
(11:08):
or they're there, but I feel invisible. And in real
life dating culture, recognition looks like simple things. They remember
what stresses you out without you having to remind them.
They notice when your energy changes. They don't make you
explain the same emotional pain twice. That's recognition, and it's
(11:28):
rare because it requires attention. Now here's the piece that
changes the whole game. Influence influences When your partner is
open to being affected by you, not controlled by you,
affected by you. This is where the Gotman research is powerful.
John Gotman's work on couples consistently points to the importance
(11:51):
of accepting influence, being able to say, in small, daily ways,
your opinion matters. I can be moved by you. I'm
not in a power struggle with you. And Gotman's team
has written about how in heterosexual relationships, a common predictor
of long term stability is whether the man can accept
(12:11):
influence from his partner, meaning he can soften, consider adjust,
and share power rather than turning everything into a standoff.
Let me make this very modern and practical. A lot
of people think influence means I get my way. Nope,
influence means I don't feel like I have to fight
(12:34):
to be considered. It's the difference between being with someone
who listens and being with someone who only hears you.
When you've reached to a breaking point, influence shows up
in tiny moments. You say something bothered you and they
don't argue it out of it. You make a request
and they don't treat it like an attack. You bring
(12:55):
up a need and they don't punish you with withdrawal.
When influence is missing, people start doing what they're famous
for doing. They start adapting. They get quieter, they get easier,
they get more low maintenance, and everyone thinks the relationship
is better now until they leave, not because they stopped
(13:16):
loving them, but because they stopped feeling like themselves. Here's
the cultural trap, being cool versus being respected. Here's a
trend I want to call out gently because it's everywhere.
So many women have been taught to be the cool girl,
the unbothered one, the easy one that I'm not like
that one. But the truth is being low maintenance is
(13:39):
not the goal. Being highly respected is because love is
not earned by shrinking. Love is sustained by mutual care.
If you have to downplay your needs to make someone
love you, that isn't love, that's emotional rent. If you're
listening right now and thinking, okay, but how do I
(13:59):
know of this is my relationship? Here are three questions
that cut through the noise. One do I feel respected
when we disagree, not when we're in love mode, when
we're in conflict? Do I feel recognized on my hard days?
Or am I only lovable when I'm convenient? And number three,
(14:19):
do I have influence or do I have to escalate
to be heard? Do I need to cry, threatening to
leave or shut down for my feelings to count? Because
if your relationship requires emotional extremes, to produce basic consideration.
It's not intimacy, it's instability. So here's what I want
to share about Principle one. Respect is how love stays safe,
(14:43):
Recognition is how love stays seen, and influence is how
love stays equal. Now, Principle two is all about scorekeeping.
This is another key principle that plays out with Amanda
and Ryan and is at the root of so many couples.
I mean, keeping happens when we track what the other
person did or didn't do and quietly use that information
(15:06):
to build a case against them. But over time this
internal scoreboard can turn into resentment and emotional distance. Scorekeeping
makes us adversaries. Shared understanding makes us partners, and when
couples begin naming what they value in each other instead
of what's missing, the emotional tone of the relationship changes
(15:27):
almost immediately. In my work, I've noticed that contribution usually
(15:53):
shows up in five areas financial, mental, physical, emotional spirit.
Conflict often happens when two people are giving generously, just
in different currencies, and because those currencies aren't named, both
people feel depleted and misunderstood even use. Sometimes, conflict often
(16:15):
arises when someone feels they are overgiving in one area
and under receiving in another area without naming it. So
here's an exercise. Your next step is the same one
I asked Amanda and Ryan to do. Ask yourself, in
what areas of your relationship do you feel like you
are overgiving and under receiving? And in what areas do
(16:36):
you feel your undergiving and over receiving. Share your findings
with your partner and see if you can make any
alterations to find a more balance in your relationship and
school keepings often very unlabeled and random. It can be
I planned the last three dates. I always text first.
I was there when they were struggling, but where were
(16:57):
they when I needed support? Pologized they didn't. Scorekeeping doesn't
usually start with resentment. It starts with imbalance, and imbalance
doesn't feel dangerous at first. It feels annoying, but over time,
small mental talies turn into emotional distance. And here's the
part that's uncomfortable. Scorekeeping feels justified because most of the
(17:21):
time it is the reason we keep score. From a
psychological perspective, is humans are wired for fairness. Research in
social psychology shows that people are deeply sensitive to perceived inequity.
When one partner feels they're investing more than their receiving,
relationship satisfaction drops significantly. Equity theory basically says we don't
(17:45):
just want love, we want fairness, and when something feels unfair,
your brain flags it. That's not pettiness, that's biology. But
here's where it gets complicated. Fairness in relationships is rarely mathema.
It's emotional. One person might be carrying more financially, carrying
(18:05):
more emotionally, carrying more mentally, and the imbalance might be
temporary or chronic. The problem isn't noticing imbalance. The problem
is turning it into a silent ledger. Let's make this
reel for twenty twenty six. Scorekeeping today looks like tracking
who initiates plans, Noticing who says I love you first
(18:28):
and more often, watching who shares their story on social media,
counting how long it takes for someone to reply, mentally
logging who compromised last. It sounds small, but it changes
the emotional tone of the relationship because once you start
keeping score, you stop giving freely. You give to balance
(18:48):
the sheet, and that shifts love from generosity to transaction.
John Gotman's research on relationships found something fascinating. Couples don't
survive becase they split everything fifty to fifty. They survive
because they respond to each other's bids for connection. A
bid can be small, look at this? Can I tell
(19:10):
you something? Are you okay? Healthy couples turn toward those
bids about eighty six percent of the time. Unhappy couples
around thirty three percent. Not because they're evil, because they're tired,
because they feel unseen, because they're already keeping score. And
when you're keeping score, you start missing bids on purpose.
(19:31):
Oh now you want my attention, Oh now your affectionate,
Oh now you care. Scorekeeping turns connection into revenge. Scorekeeping
feels powerful, it gives you evidence. But here's the truth.
Scorekeeping is usually unspoken resentment, and unspoken resentment becomes emotional withdrawal.
(19:53):
You don't scream, you don't leave, You just start caring
a little less. You stop initiating, you stop softening, stop breaching.
Not because you don't love them, because you're protecting yourself
from feeling foolish. So what's the alternative? This is important.
The solution is not to ignore imbalance. The solution is
(20:14):
to address it directly instead of storing it. Scorekeeping thrives
in silence. Healthy love says I'm feeling stretched here. I
need more support. I notice what you're giving me here,
But I do feel like I'm carrying this alone. That's
not nagging. That's clarity, because once resentment builds, you're not
negotiating needs, You're negotiating wounds. The next thing I want
(20:37):
to talk to you about is conflict styles in messy Love.
The second couple I meet is gladys In Justin, who
are having a difficult time with the way they communicate
and trust in one another. I shared with them three
core fight styles or conflict styles, venting, I want to
fix this right now, hiding, I need space and time
to reflect on my feelings, and exploding what happens when
(21:00):
the first two go unheard. Here is a moment where
I introduced this idea to gladys In Justin. As you listen,
notice how naming the conflict style immediately lowers the temperature. Often,
when we finally speak up, we speak louder, but not clearer.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
When I say louder, I don't mean you're shouting.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, it's more confident, but it doesn't mean confidence. Is
clarity in is that person really able to understand what
we're saying. That's why this exercise of that trigger and
reaction is so important, because what's happening is the trigger
is speaking louder, maybe not clearer, and the reaction is
minimizing and projecting value onto it. And that's where everything escalates.
(21:43):
What happens when it escalates, so you don't feel seen
and heard, Gladys Justin will say, can't believe we're here again,
It's too small. Why are we doing this? Where does
that go?
Speaker 6 (21:55):
I just shut down, which is the next one, but
I just shut down. And then that's when he I
want to have a conversation. And at that point, I
don't want to have a conversation. It just becomes an argument.
And then the conversation becomes very defensive. And then at
some point that is probably the biggest thing, Like I
feel it in my chest when this happens. I get
(22:15):
so angry that I'll just scream and be like I
don't care anymore. Just get off my phone, like I
don't even care, I don't want to talk to you,
walk away, and I start becoming really rude.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, and that's when we've we've already gone too far
where it's like it's unsavable at that point that conversation
because tensions high, there's loads of emotion, and we've lost
that rational part of us that has the ability to
just in your thoughts on that.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Yeah, it's pretty accurate.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And it happens on both behalfs.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
You know.
Speaker 7 (22:42):
There's sometimes where we'll show shut down and then I
do the same, and then we just don't talk and
then there's like that awkward silence and then somebody breaks
the ice. Most of the time it's me, you know,
coming to try to figure it out, right.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, And so what we're really speaking about here is
that in terms of your communication challenges, the communication challenges
for Gladys is saying what you really want when you
want it, and being really clear about it and for
it not to be a trigger. I think the challenge
is when we only communicate when it's triggered, it's no
(23:19):
longer communication. It's now a trigger. That's why we call
it that. And I think communication is actually there's nothing
wrong right now, and there's nothing that I'm agitated right now,
And in this piece, I'm actually going to share what
I want. If I communicate when i'm not triggered, Chances
are I won't trigger the other person. But if I
(23:40):
only communicate when I'm triggered, chances a I'm going to
lead to a reaction. And I think for yourself in
that justin if you're only reacting to a trigger, you're
going to have a reaction. But for you to break
this cycle, we've got to make sure that you're able
to even if Gladys gets triggered, to be able to
approach it in a form of validation and making her
(24:02):
feel seen and heard. And so there's responsibility and accountability
on both sides because we don't want to get to
the escalation point, because that's the point of an over return,
where repairing from that is a lot harder. When we
understand how we fight, we stop assuming it's about whether
we care. Here's a moment where we go deeper into
triggers and how quickly reactions can spiral when clarity is missing.
(24:25):
Conflict styles aren't flaws, their patterns we learn to protect ourselves.
But when those patterns go unnamed, they collide. The goal
isn't to eliminate conflict, it's to understand it well enough
that repair becomes possible. Conflict styles aren't flaws, their patterns.
We learn to protect ourselves, but when those patterns go unnamed,
(24:47):
they collide. The goal isn't to eliminate conflict, it's to
understand it well enough that repair becomes possible. For this exercise,
I invite you to identify which fight style is most
common for you in you your relationship. Then consider why
you think this style developed and whether any adjustments could
be made. Are you a fixer, a venor, or an exploder.
(25:09):
Most relationships don't fall apart because of big betrayals. They
fall apart because of how two people fight or don't fight.
Your conflict style is the invisible script you run when
something feels off. It's how you react when you're hurt,
when you're misunderstood, when you're disappointed. And most of us
didn't choose our style, we inherited it. Here's what's fascinating.
(25:33):
Research shows that conflict is not predictive of divorce. Avoidance
of repair is Gotman's work shows it's not about whether
you argue, it's about whether you repair quickly. Do you
soften after, do you circle back? Do you say I
didn't mean it that way? Or do you stay in
ego Here's the hard question. Ask yourself, when we fight,
(25:55):
do I feel closer after or more alone? Because conflict
styles don't term incompatibility repair does. It's not about finding
someone who you never argue with, It's about finding someone
who stays with you even after you argue. Principle number four.
The final couple we meet in Messy Love, My audible
(26:16):
original is Jeremy and Richard, who are deeply in love
and committed to growing together, but working through very different
communication styles. This is something I see quite often in
my work with couples and can be incredibly frustrating Without
a solution for this, I offer the XYZ method, a
simple framework for expressing needs without blame or judgment. It
(26:38):
goes like this, when you X, I feel why how
can we work together to get to Z? Let me
share a moment where I introduce this framework to Jeremy
and Richard.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
The challenges.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
As humans, we all internalize all statements. So most people
when they hear this statement you don't understand me. What
we hear is you're not an understanding person. Right, I'm
not an understanding person. And then what the person on
the receiving end does is think of all the ways
in which they are an understanding person. Hey By, But
wait a minute, I understood when you had that doctors.
(27:12):
Wait wait a minute, I understood when we were with JA.
It's like, no, the way you want to share it
is very specific. When you do X, I feel why
how can we get to Z? We can use this
framework that is evolved from many solution focused therapies to
be really specific.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
That's how we want to try and have that conversation
moving forward, because the other challenge we all say to
our partners is we all say, you always do this,
and you never do that, right. You always leave the
dishes unclean, you never organize vacations for us to go on,
And so we speak in finality and completeness as opposed
(27:53):
to when you leave the dishes uncleaned, very specific when
not always not when you leave the dishes uncleaned. I
feel you don't value me, whereas you could have just
said that you don't make me feel valued, and that
lands completely differently. You just don't value me, And now
the person, what do you mean I don't value I
(28:14):
just made you coffee this morning, I took the dog
for a walk, I cooked as.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Dinner last night.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
What do you mean like, no, you don't value me,
the dishes were unclean last night, and now you've already
lost the argument when you do X, I feel why
what you're doing is you're taking accountability for your feeling
and you're being specific to clear up when you feel
that way, and then the person gets an opportunity to
(28:40):
explain how those two things are not connected. So what
I want you to do, Richard, is I want you
to express something to Jeremy. You may have done something before.
I want you to take something you shared in anger
or flippantly, or something you shared without this process. Maybe
you said you don't value me. Maybe you said you're
careless with money, and I want you to now say
(29:00):
it with this new rhythm, a new script.
Speaker 8 (29:05):
I was just kind of thinking about, like when that
typically happens, it's usually around like cleaning the house.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
On That's where my mind went to first. And I'm
a very clean person.
Speaker 8 (29:16):
I just want to state for the record, but he's
freakishly obsessively clean. I don't think you're a dirty person
at all. I think you can be messy. And when
I spend a lot of time making our house nice
and clean and lovely, like a hotel.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
I and when.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So yeah, so now I want to use the script.
So how would Richard have said that before today? How
would Richard have said that? How would you say this
without the script?
Speaker 5 (29:50):
God, why can't you just wipe that up? You're a
dirty slob?
Speaker 8 (29:55):
Or like God, I just cleaned up, deep cleaned the
whole house, and like you're you know, making a sound
when you can't even wipe up the crumbs.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
He will get bothered by me eating food after he's
going to deep clean.
Speaker 8 (30:06):
But like, I don't mind, just like wipe down the counter,
there's like crumbs. How would you set when when you
do these kind of things? Do you when you leave
the crumbs on the counter after I cleaned?
Speaker 5 (30:25):
I deep cleaned our home.
Speaker 8 (30:27):
I feel like you don't value the love and work
that I put into our household to make it nice
for us.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
So how do we get to the Z?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah? What can we do?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Well?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
What do you need at that point to get to Z?
Speaker 8 (30:48):
Well, in order for me to get to ZEE, I
would want you to be more mindful when you've noticed
that I took a lot of time out of my
day to make our home the way it is. Sure, Yeah,
that so much better, though, That would make me feel valued.
Sure that you know you appreciate all the hard work
(31:11):
that I.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
Do for our household.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Here's where we take that XYZ method and apply it
in real time. So what makes the XYZ method so
powerful isn't just the words themselves. It's the space it
creates between reaction and understanding. So often in relationships, we
think we're arguing about the behavior, but what we're really
fighting is the meaning we've attached to it. The moment
(31:36):
we assume intention, the conversation becomes about who's right instead
of what's true. The XYZ method helps us untangle that.
When you X anchors us in observation, not interpretation, it
asks us to describe what happened, not what we think
it says about our partner. When you say I feel why,
(32:00):
it reminds us that emotions are not weapons, they're signals.
And when we take responsibility for our feelings, we stop
asking our partner to defend themselves and instead invite them
to understand us. Finally, when you say how can we
get to Z? That shifts the energy completely. It transforms
(32:20):
conflict from a courtroom into a collaboration. For this exercise,
think of a point of frustration in your relationship and
attempt to communicate with the other person using the XYZ model.
Make sure you feel heard, then create the space for
the other person to do the same. Let's talk about
something that sounds simple but quietly determines whether a relationship
(32:45):
deepens or deteriorates. Communicating your feelings, not your opinions, not
your analysis, not your sarcasm, your feelings. But here's the truth.
Most people think they're communicating their feelings when they're actually
communicating their conclusions, and those are very different things. When
(33:05):
something hurts, most of us don't say I felt ignored.
We say you never listen. When we feel insecure, we
don't say I'm feeling anxious, we say you don't care.
That shift from feeling to accusation changes everything. Here's the
hard question. Ask yourself, when I'm hurt, do I communicate
(33:27):
to be understood or do I communicate to win? Because
these two intentions create completely different outcomes. And our final
principle today comes from my conversation with Justin and Gladys.
Lasting change feels overwhelming when we think in terms of forever,
but when we focus on just thirty days, trust becomes
(33:48):
achievable again through small, consistent actions. So what I suggest
to them is to create a thirty day agreement.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Sharing a moment.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Now where I introduce this idea to just in a
glad is as you listen, notice how the energy shifts
when the focus moves from forever to just the next
thirty days. For the remainder of this session, I want
to focus in on creating what I see as a
thirty day agreement that you both make together that becomes
(34:19):
a rolling agreement, which is an agreement to everything that
you both just mentioned, the growth, the love, the connection.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
But we want to do it with practical terminology.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
And what I mean by that is, well, how often
do we want to talk, what do we want to
talk about? How often do we want to meet and connect?
Let's structure that. Let's create what our current boundaries are
and where we want to stop them, because what we
don't want it to become is that right now you
both feel really clear that it's not time to get
back together. It would be too early, it would be
too rushed, it would be too forced. And we want
(34:52):
to get to a point where we don't rush into
it or fall into those moments. But that you both
are able to progress, and so I want you to
talk about what a thirty day agreement would look like.
It's like, what are we both signing up for in
terms of time for connection, in terms of space, in
terms of how often we're getting together, and in terms
of whatever our boundaries. So we okay, we may spend
(35:15):
one or two three days together in a row, but
then gonna need two days off, like I'm gonna you know,
whatever it is, and then that can change. That agreement
becomes something that you come back to, but actually the
next thirty days, I'm willing to spend one more day together.
And it becomes like that guideline I gave you for
the three part communication. It's that whenever emotions take over
in either direction, you have something to turn to and
(35:36):
you both keep each other accountable to that you're not
making a commitment for the next twelve months. It's a
thirty day agreement that again, what I would encourage you
to do in thirty days is to sit down and
do this again together as if I was there, and say, Okay, well,
this is what went well, this is what didn't work.
Maybe we didn't spend enough time together, Maybe we just
spent too much time together, maybe there was this, and
(35:57):
so then you create a new agreement and it's thirty days,
which means you're not signing a contract for life or
I think that's sometimes what's so hard about relationships. As
we make these big decisions, we're like, oh, we're just
going to move back in together and figure it out,
and it's like, well, okay, well what does that look
like in thirty days and sixty days? And so this
patient approach is healthier for Laer, it's healthier for both
(36:18):
of you, as you've both talked about. And so if
right now you're both signing up to no other romantic partners,
it's a thirty day agreement. If that changes in ninety days,
it's something you can update each other on and move on.
But at least there's clarity and you both have a
transparent approach to it.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
I agree, Yeah, I don't know why imagining it has
to be like a three page agreement.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
You know, to be honest, the simpler and the less
the better. To me, it's not about how many points
you have on it. It's more about having the key
things that move the needle for both of you and
checking in with how you feel. So yeah, I would
say I would like you both to like write this
out in your words together. It would be a great
(36:59):
activity to do together as your homework, print it out,
keep it somewhere really really clear. Or you both have
the same print out the same words you've chosen those
words together, and ideas for each as well. You know,
you may find that going out for brunch and dinner
is nice, but then you want to add other activities
and things and trips or whatever else that includes. I
(37:22):
think getting language downright so that you both feel really
clear about it and you know what you're honoring would
be something I would recommend you both do after this together.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Does that feel good?
Speaker 6 (37:31):
This feels really good.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
The beauty of the thirty day contract isn't in grand promises.
It's in small, consistent actions that rebuild trust slowly and intentionally.
Trust isn't restored through intensity, It's restored through repetition. Here's
an exercise. Create a thirty day contract with the other
person in your relationship. In the agreement, be short to
(37:54):
include these three things. One, identify your core pillars, what
are integral to the relationship, what they are, and what
they mean to you. Two set realistic commitments and boundaries
that you both feel good about. Number three, revisit and
renew your agreement regularly. This is a working document and
not a one undone deal. These five principles are just
(38:17):
a few of the powerful insights you'll hear in my
audible original Messy Love. For much more where that came from,
please check out Messy Love exclusively on Audible. Check it
out at audible dot com, forward slash messy Loove. Thank
you for listening. Remember I'm forever in your corner and
always rooting for you.
Hey, everyone, Welcome back to on Purpose. Today we're talking
about messy love, difficult conversations for deeper connection. We're living
in a time where people are more connected than ever before,
yet so many of us feel deeply disconnected in our relationships.
We have access to endless information, constant communication, and more
(00:23):
tools than ever to improve our lives. We set goals
for our careers, our health, our routines, and our personal growth,
but rarely do we pause to reflect on how we love,
how we listen, and how we show up for the
people closest to us. Many of us were never taught
what healthy love actually looks like. We weren't taught how
(00:45):
to communicate when emotions run high, how to repair after conflict,
or how to feel safe being honest without fear of loss. Instead,
we carry patterns from our past into our presenting. Things
will somehow work themselves out, and when relationships feel messy, confusing,
or painful, we often blame ourselves or the other person,
(01:10):
without realizing that most of what we're experiencing is learned behavior,
not personal failure. Today, I want to share five powerful
relationship lessons from my new audible original Messy Love, Difficult,
conversations for deeper connection. My hope is that these are
not just ideas for you to think about, that active
(01:33):
practices you can bring in to your real life relationships.
In my Audible original Messy Love, I sit down with
three different couples over three sessions each. Together, we explore
how to build emotional safety, navigate conflict, and rebuild trust
in their relationships. I'll walk you through five core principles
(01:55):
from the series, and after each one, offer you a
simple exercise you can try for yourself, whether with a
romantic partner, a family relationship, or any bond that holds
value for you and to hear how these tools come
to life. Make sure to check out Messy Love, available
only on Audible. Audible's well Being collection has everything to
(02:18):
inspire and support you in every step of your well
being journey. So let's get started. Principal one is all
about influence, respect, and recognition. Early in the series, I
meet amanden Ryan, a couple who feel out of sync
in their schedules and emotional connection with one another. I
(02:39):
quickly identify that beneath their frustration is a shared desire
to feel influence, respect, and recognition from one another.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
For what they do.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
When we don't feel seen or valued, we start to
build resentment, not because we don't care, but because we
don't feel safe to keep giving. Let me share a
moment from my conversation with Amanda and Ryan that really
captures what this looks like in real life. As you listen,
notice how both of them aren't actually arguing about tasks
(03:12):
or schedules. They're wrestling with something deeper, the need to
feel valued and understood in the relationship. Hearing Ryan and
Amanda share, it's becoming clear to me that the underlying
core issue is respect, recognition, and influence. In any relationship,
(03:32):
people aren't really arguing just about the finances. They're arguing
about do I have an influence in the decisions we make.
People are not just arguing over what roles they do
or how many chores they have. They're arguing over how
much respect they feel. And ultimately, everyone wants to feel
recognized by their partner for the work they put in,
(03:52):
and so that's at the core of this relationship. Thank
you both for being so vulnerable, and I really appreciate it.
This is the reality of what we're all dealing with,
which is we like each other we love each other,
things make sense, but there's the realities of life, whether
that be financial, emotional, mental, and as I'm listening to
(04:16):
you both, when we really get beneath the surface, it
seems like less of a income conversation and more of
an influence, respect and recognition conversation. And I mean, Ryan,
you just said totally straight away.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, And it took a lot of years to understand,
like when things happen, it's not personal, Like if I
feel like she took a low blow, understanding that like
it's not her legitimately wanting to hurt me, as just
her protecting herself in the same way that I do
it in my way when I get insecure, when I
(04:55):
feel less than, my natural reaction is to get angry
and like loud and big, because then I don't feel weak.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
What are your exact roles right now?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I get the sense overall, but what are your exact
roles right now? And how have you learned to place value?
It sounds like in those heated moments there's an unequal
value on certain roles.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Now, I generally go to Ploate's or work out before
I teach because I need to like set myself up
for the day. And because by nine o'clock my phone,
like I have a work phone and obviously personal phone,
the amount of people needing my attention is so intense
that I really like those hours. So usually before Ryan
(05:42):
and Piggy wake up, I've already worked out and like
taught two classes, and I'm already like well into my
day late morning or midday. That's where little chaos comes in,
as if Ryan and Piggy have gone for a walk
and I come home and I'm a little bit of
a tornado, and then I go to the wellness center
and I see patients.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
She's kind of always a tornado because everything's stacked. If
the smallest little glitch in the schedule happens, things start
to fall apart.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
I'm the support role. Back to what you're asking.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Traditionally, i'd be like in the fifties.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Like the man that goes kind of joke about that
that I'm more of the homemaker, and I make everything
run around the house and all of the errands and
the store and things like that, you know, and she
works and in those moments where she's flustered and busy
and like, I gotta do this, I gotta do that,
and I'm trying to like like make her some food
(06:36):
and make this and gather this. Another thing that happens
a lot when she's like that. She'll just be barking
orders and do this, do that, and like where is this?
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Where is that?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
So now I'm freaking out having an anxiety attack because
I can't find this piece of paper or we ran
out of this and she needs that. And so that's
where the resentment builds up, is like I do so much,
but in this moment, you'll make a comment like I'm
not doing enough. And all this other stuff that I
did that you have no idea that you know helped
(07:06):
your day out and made it more efficient. You're going
to harp on this one thing, and now I have
to feel bad about that.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
What you're hearing there isn't really about who does more.
It's about what happens when appreciation turns into accounting. When
recognition fades, resentment fills the gap. Here's an exercise I
want you to try. For the first set of the exercise,
I invite you to ask yourself, in what moments do
(07:34):
you feel seen and recognized in your relationship? And then
when do you feel invisible? Or overlooked, like you aren't
being seen and recognized in that connection. Notice what comes
up for you, then see if you can share this
information with the other person in your life. I want
to start with something that sounds obvious but changes everything.
(07:57):
A lot of people think the foundation of a romance
relationship is chemistry, But chemistry is the spark. The foundation
is respect. And here's how you can tell the difference
between a relationship that feels exciting and a relationship that
actually feels safe. In a healthy relationship, you feel respected, recognized,
(08:20):
and influential, not in charge, not dominant, influential, like your
presence matters, like your feelings register, like your voice changes
the room. Because love without respect doesn't feel like love.
It feels like anxiety with good memories. The respect part
(08:41):
is really important. Respect isn't just being polite. Respect is
how someone treats your reality. Do they take your feelings seriously?
Do they handle your boundaries like they matter? Do they
speak to you like you're someone they're proud to be with,
especially when they're an There's a reason respect is such
(09:02):
a big deal in research. Respect is one of those
things you don't appreciate until it's missing. Because when respect
is missing, everything starts to feel personal. A joke feels
like a jab, A disagreement feels like dismissal. A boundary
feels like you're asking for too much. And here's a modern,
(09:24):
very twenty twenty six reality. A lot of women aren't
breaking up because they stopped loving someone. They're breaking up
because they got tired of being handled casually. The relationship
didn't end in one big betrayal. It ended in a
thousand tiny moments of disrespect. The eye roll, the sarcasm
(09:46):
that you're too sensitive, the I forgot that happens every
time it's important to you. Respect is the difference between
I don't agree with you and I don't.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Take you seriously.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
No, oh, it's the difference between those I don't agree
with you as respectful, I don't take you seriously as personal. Now,
let's talk recognition, because this is where so many relationships
quietly fail. Recognition is the feeling of my partner gets me,
not just my highlight reel, not just my cute side,
not just my social self me. In psychology, there's a
(10:23):
concept called perceived partner responsiveness. It's basically the science version
of I feel seen. It means you feel your partner
understands you, cares about you, and appreciates you. And here's
why this matters. When you don't feel recognized, you start performing.
You start editing yourself, you start picking your words carefully,
(10:46):
you start managing your emotions so you don't ruin the vibe.
And you can call it being chill, but it's actually
being alone while in a relationship. Recognition is what makes
love feel like a place you can and exhale. A
lot of people I speak to say some version of this.
They say they love me, but I don't feel known,
(11:08):
or they're there, but I feel invisible. And in real
life dating culture, recognition looks like simple things. They remember
what stresses you out without you having to remind them.
They notice when your energy changes. They don't make you
explain the same emotional pain twice. That's recognition, and it's
(11:28):
rare because it requires attention. Now here's the piece that
changes the whole game. Influence influences When your partner is
open to being affected by you, not controlled by you,
affected by you. This is where the Gotman research is powerful.
John Gotman's work on couples consistently points to the importance
(11:51):
of accepting influence, being able to say, in small, daily ways,
your opinion matters. I can be moved by you. I'm
not in a power struggle with you. And Gotman's team
has written about how in heterosexual relationships, a common predictor
of long term stability is whether the man can accept
(12:11):
influence from his partner, meaning he can soften, consider adjust,
and share power rather than turning everything into a standoff.
Let me make this very modern and practical. A lot
of people think influence means I get my way. Nope,
influence means I don't feel like I have to fight
(12:34):
to be considered. It's the difference between being with someone
who listens and being with someone who only hears you.
When you've reached to a breaking point, influence shows up
in tiny moments. You say something bothered you and they
don't argue it out of it. You make a request
and they don't treat it like an attack. You bring
(12:55):
up a need and they don't punish you with withdrawal.
When influence is missing, people start doing what they're famous
for doing. They start adapting. They get quieter, they get easier,
they get more low maintenance, and everyone thinks the relationship
is better now until they leave, not because they stopped
(13:16):
loving them, but because they stopped feeling like themselves. Here's
the cultural trap, being cool versus being respected. Here's a
trend I want to call out gently because it's everywhere.
So many women have been taught to be the cool girl,
the unbothered one, the easy one that I'm not like
that one. But the truth is being low maintenance is
(13:39):
not the goal. Being highly respected is because love is
not earned by shrinking. Love is sustained by mutual care.
If you have to downplay your needs to make someone
love you, that isn't love, that's emotional rent. If you're
listening right now and thinking, okay, but how do I
(13:59):
know of this is my relationship? Here are three questions
that cut through the noise. One do I feel respected
when we disagree, not when we're in love mode, when
we're in conflict? Do I feel recognized on my hard days?
Or am I only lovable when I'm convenient? And number three,
(14:19):
do I have influence or do I have to escalate
to be heard? Do I need to cry, threatening to
leave or shut down for my feelings to count? Because
if your relationship requires emotional extremes, to produce basic consideration.
It's not intimacy, it's instability. So here's what I want
to share about Principle one. Respect is how love stays safe,
(14:43):
Recognition is how love stays seen, and influence is how
love stays equal. Now, Principle two is all about scorekeeping.
This is another key principle that plays out with Amanda
and Ryan and is at the root of so many couples.
I mean, keeping happens when we track what the other
person did or didn't do and quietly use that information
(15:06):
to build a case against them. But over time this
internal scoreboard can turn into resentment and emotional distance. Scorekeeping
makes us adversaries. Shared understanding makes us partners, and when
couples begin naming what they value in each other instead
of what's missing, the emotional tone of the relationship changes
(15:27):
almost immediately. In my work, I've noticed that contribution usually
(15:53):
shows up in five areas financial, mental, physical, emotional spirit.
Conflict often happens when two people are giving generously, just
in different currencies, and because those currencies aren't named, both
people feel depleted and misunderstood even use. Sometimes, conflict often
(16:15):
arises when someone feels they are overgiving in one area
and under receiving in another area without naming it. So
here's an exercise. Your next step is the same one
I asked Amanda and Ryan to do. Ask yourself, in
what areas of your relationship do you feel like you
are overgiving and under receiving? And in what areas do
(16:36):
you feel your undergiving and over receiving. Share your findings
with your partner and see if you can make any
alterations to find a more balance in your relationship and
school keepings often very unlabeled and random. It can be
I planned the last three dates. I always text first.
I was there when they were struggling, but where were
(16:57):
they when I needed support? Pologized they didn't. Scorekeeping doesn't
usually start with resentment. It starts with imbalance, and imbalance
doesn't feel dangerous at first. It feels annoying, but over time,
small mental talies turn into emotional distance. And here's the
part that's uncomfortable. Scorekeeping feels justified because most of the
(17:21):
time it is the reason we keep score. From a
psychological perspective, is humans are wired for fairness. Research in
social psychology shows that people are deeply sensitive to perceived inequity.
When one partner feels they're investing more than their receiving,
relationship satisfaction drops significantly. Equity theory basically says we don't
(17:45):
just want love, we want fairness, and when something feels unfair,
your brain flags it. That's not pettiness, that's biology. But
here's where it gets complicated. Fairness in relationships is rarely mathema.
It's emotional. One person might be carrying more financially, carrying
(18:05):
more emotionally, carrying more mentally, and the imbalance might be
temporary or chronic. The problem isn't noticing imbalance. The problem
is turning it into a silent ledger. Let's make this
reel for twenty twenty six. Scorekeeping today looks like tracking
who initiates plans, Noticing who says I love you first
(18:28):
and more often, watching who shares their story on social media,
counting how long it takes for someone to reply, mentally
logging who compromised last. It sounds small, but it changes
the emotional tone of the relationship because once you start
keeping score, you stop giving freely. You give to balance
(18:48):
the sheet, and that shifts love from generosity to transaction.
John Gotman's research on relationships found something fascinating. Couples don't
survive becase they split everything fifty to fifty. They survive
because they respond to each other's bids for connection. A
bid can be small, look at this? Can I tell
(19:10):
you something? Are you okay? Healthy couples turn toward those
bids about eighty six percent of the time. Unhappy couples
around thirty three percent. Not because they're evil, because they're tired,
because they feel unseen, because they're already keeping score. And
when you're keeping score, you start missing bids on purpose.
(19:31):
Oh now you want my attention, Oh now your affectionate,
Oh now you care. Scorekeeping turns connection into revenge. Scorekeeping
feels powerful, it gives you evidence. But here's the truth.
Scorekeeping is usually unspoken resentment, and unspoken resentment becomes emotional withdrawal.
(19:53):
You don't scream, you don't leave, You just start caring
a little less. You stop initiating, you stop softening, stop breaching.
Not because you don't love them, because you're protecting yourself
from feeling foolish. So what's the alternative? This is important.
The solution is not to ignore imbalance. The solution is
(20:14):
to address it directly instead of storing it. Scorekeeping thrives
in silence. Healthy love says I'm feeling stretched here. I
need more support. I notice what you're giving me here,
But I do feel like I'm carrying this alone. That's
not nagging. That's clarity, because once resentment builds, you're not
negotiating needs, You're negotiating wounds. The next thing I want
(20:37):
to talk to you about is conflict styles in messy Love.
The second couple I meet is gladys In Justin, who
are having a difficult time with the way they communicate
and trust in one another. I shared with them three
core fight styles or conflict styles, venting, I want to
fix this right now, hiding, I need space and time
to reflect on my feelings, and exploding what happens when
(21:00):
the first two go unheard. Here is a moment where
I introduced this idea to gladys In Justin. As you listen,
notice how naming the conflict style immediately lowers the temperature. Often,
when we finally speak up, we speak louder, but not clearer.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
When I say louder, I don't mean you're shouting.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, it's more confident, but it doesn't mean confidence. Is
clarity in is that person really able to understand what
we're saying. That's why this exercise of that trigger and
reaction is so important, because what's happening is the trigger
is speaking louder, maybe not clearer, and the reaction is
minimizing and projecting value onto it. And that's where everything escalates.
(21:43):
What happens when it escalates, so you don't feel seen
and heard, Gladys Justin will say, can't believe we're here again,
It's too small. Why are we doing this? Where does
that go?
Speaker 6 (21:55):
I just shut down, which is the next one, but
I just shut down. And then that's when he I
want to have a conversation. And at that point, I
don't want to have a conversation. It just becomes an argument.
And then the conversation becomes very defensive. And then at
some point that is probably the biggest thing, Like I
feel it in my chest when this happens. I get
(22:15):
so angry that I'll just scream and be like I
don't care anymore. Just get off my phone, like I
don't even care, I don't want to talk to you,
walk away, and I start becoming really rude.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, and that's when we've we've already gone too far
where it's like it's unsavable at that point that conversation
because tensions high, there's loads of emotion, and we've lost
that rational part of us that has the ability to
just in your thoughts on that.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Yeah, it's pretty accurate.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And it happens on both behalfs.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
You know.
Speaker 7 (22:42):
There's sometimes where we'll show shut down and then I
do the same, and then we just don't talk and
then there's like that awkward silence and then somebody breaks
the ice. Most of the time it's me, you know,
coming to try to figure it out, right.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, And so what we're really speaking about here is
that in terms of your communication challenges, the communication challenges
for Gladys is saying what you really want when you
want it, and being really clear about it and for
it not to be a trigger. I think the challenge
is when we only communicate when it's triggered, it's no
(23:19):
longer communication. It's now a trigger. That's why we call
it that. And I think communication is actually there's nothing
wrong right now, and there's nothing that I'm agitated right now,
And in this piece, I'm actually going to share what
I want. If I communicate when i'm not triggered, Chances
are I won't trigger the other person. But if I
(23:40):
only communicate when I'm triggered, chances a I'm going to
lead to a reaction. And I think for yourself in
that justin if you're only reacting to a trigger, you're
going to have a reaction. But for you to break
this cycle, we've got to make sure that you're able
to even if Gladys gets triggered, to be able to
approach it in a form of validation and making her
(24:02):
feel seen and heard. And so there's responsibility and accountability
on both sides because we don't want to get to
the escalation point, because that's the point of an over return,
where repairing from that is a lot harder. When we
understand how we fight, we stop assuming it's about whether
we care. Here's a moment where we go deeper into
triggers and how quickly reactions can spiral when clarity is missing.
(24:25):
Conflict styles aren't flaws, their patterns we learn to protect ourselves.
But when those patterns go unnamed, they collide. The goal
isn't to eliminate conflict, it's to understand it well enough
that repair becomes possible. Conflict styles aren't flaws, their patterns.
We learn to protect ourselves, but when those patterns go unnamed,
(24:47):
they collide. The goal isn't to eliminate conflict, it's to
understand it well enough that repair becomes possible. For this exercise,
I invite you to identify which fight style is most
common for you in you your relationship. Then consider why
you think this style developed and whether any adjustments could
be made. Are you a fixer, a venor, or an exploder.
(25:09):
Most relationships don't fall apart because of big betrayals. They
fall apart because of how two people fight or don't fight.
Your conflict style is the invisible script you run when
something feels off. It's how you react when you're hurt,
when you're misunderstood, when you're disappointed. And most of us
didn't choose our style, we inherited it. Here's what's fascinating.
(25:33):
Research shows that conflict is not predictive of divorce. Avoidance
of repair is Gotman's work shows it's not about whether
you argue, it's about whether you repair quickly. Do you
soften after, do you circle back? Do you say I
didn't mean it that way? Or do you stay in
ego Here's the hard question. Ask yourself, when we fight,
(25:55):
do I feel closer after or more alone? Because conflict
styles don't term incompatibility repair does. It's not about finding
someone who you never argue with, It's about finding someone
who stays with you even after you argue. Principle number four.
The final couple we meet in Messy Love, My audible
(26:16):
original is Jeremy and Richard, who are deeply in love
and committed to growing together, but working through very different
communication styles. This is something I see quite often in
my work with couples and can be incredibly frustrating Without
a solution for this, I offer the XYZ method, a
simple framework for expressing needs without blame or judgment. It
(26:38):
goes like this, when you X, I feel why how
can we work together to get to Z? Let me
share a moment where I introduce this framework to Jeremy
and Richard.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
The challenges.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
As humans, we all internalize all statements. So most people
when they hear this statement you don't understand me. What
we hear is you're not an understanding person. Right, I'm
not an understanding person. And then what the person on
the receiving end does is think of all the ways
in which they are an understanding person. Hey By, But
wait a minute, I understood when you had that doctors.
(27:12):
Wait wait a minute, I understood when we were with JA.
It's like, no, the way you want to share it
is very specific. When you do X, I feel why
how can we get to Z? We can use this
framework that is evolved from many solution focused therapies to
be really specific.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
That's how we want to try and have that conversation
moving forward, because the other challenge we all say to
our partners is we all say, you always do this,
and you never do that, right. You always leave the
dishes unclean, you never organize vacations for us to go on,
And so we speak in finality and completeness as opposed
(27:53):
to when you leave the dishes uncleaned, very specific when
not always not when you leave the dishes uncleaned. I
feel you don't value me, whereas you could have just
said that you don't make me feel valued, and that
lands completely differently. You just don't value me, And now
the person, what do you mean I don't value I
(28:14):
just made you coffee this morning, I took the dog
for a walk, I cooked as.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Dinner last night.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
What do you mean like, no, you don't value me,
the dishes were unclean last night, and now you've already
lost the argument when you do X, I feel why
what you're doing is you're taking accountability for your feeling
and you're being specific to clear up when you feel
that way, and then the person gets an opportunity to
(28:40):
explain how those two things are not connected. So what
I want you to do, Richard, is I want you
to express something to Jeremy. You may have done something before.
I want you to take something you shared in anger
or flippantly, or something you shared without this process. Maybe
you said you don't value me. Maybe you said you're
careless with money, and I want you to now say
(29:00):
it with this new rhythm, a new script.
Speaker 8 (29:05):
I was just kind of thinking about, like when that
typically happens, it's usually around like cleaning the house.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
On That's where my mind went to first. And I'm
a very clean person.
Speaker 8 (29:16):
I just want to state for the record, but he's
freakishly obsessively clean. I don't think you're a dirty person
at all. I think you can be messy. And when
I spend a lot of time making our house nice
and clean and lovely, like a hotel.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
I and when.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So yeah, so now I want to use the script.
So how would Richard have said that before today? How
would Richard have said that? How would you say this
without the script?
Speaker 5 (29:50):
God, why can't you just wipe that up? You're a
dirty slob?
Speaker 8 (29:55):
Or like God, I just cleaned up, deep cleaned the
whole house, and like you're you know, making a sound
when you can't even wipe up the crumbs.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
He will get bothered by me eating food after he's
going to deep clean.
Speaker 8 (30:06):
But like, I don't mind, just like wipe down the counter,
there's like crumbs. How would you set when when you
do these kind of things? Do you when you leave
the crumbs on the counter after I cleaned?
Speaker 5 (30:25):
I deep cleaned our home.
Speaker 8 (30:27):
I feel like you don't value the love and work
that I put into our household to make it nice
for us.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
So how do we get to the Z?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah? What can we do?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Well?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
What do you need at that point to get to Z?
Speaker 8 (30:48):
Well, in order for me to get to ZEE, I
would want you to be more mindful when you've noticed
that I took a lot of time out of my
day to make our home the way it is. Sure, Yeah,
that so much better, though, That would make me feel valued.
Sure that you know you appreciate all the hard work
(31:11):
that I.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
Do for our household.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Here's where we take that XYZ method and apply it
in real time. So what makes the XYZ method so
powerful isn't just the words themselves. It's the space it
creates between reaction and understanding. So often in relationships, we
think we're arguing about the behavior, but what we're really
fighting is the meaning we've attached to it. The moment
(31:36):
we assume intention, the conversation becomes about who's right instead
of what's true. The XYZ method helps us untangle that.
When you X anchors us in observation, not interpretation, it
asks us to describe what happened, not what we think
it says about our partner. When you say I feel why,
(32:00):
it reminds us that emotions are not weapons, they're signals.
And when we take responsibility for our feelings, we stop
asking our partner to defend themselves and instead invite them
to understand us. Finally, when you say how can we
get to Z? That shifts the energy completely. It transforms
(32:20):
conflict from a courtroom into a collaboration. For this exercise,
think of a point of frustration in your relationship and
attempt to communicate with the other person using the XYZ model.
Make sure you feel heard, then create the space for
the other person to do the same. Let's talk about
something that sounds simple but quietly determines whether a relationship
(32:45):
deepens or deteriorates. Communicating your feelings, not your opinions, not
your analysis, not your sarcasm, your feelings. But here's the truth.
Most people think they're communicating their feelings when they're actually
communicating their conclusions, and those are very different things. When
(33:05):
something hurts, most of us don't say I felt ignored.
We say you never listen. When we feel insecure, we
don't say I'm feeling anxious, we say you don't care.
That shift from feeling to accusation changes everything. Here's the
hard question. Ask yourself, when I'm hurt, do I communicate
(33:27):
to be understood or do I communicate to win? Because
these two intentions create completely different outcomes. And our final
principle today comes from my conversation with Justin and Gladys.
Lasting change feels overwhelming when we think in terms of forever,
but when we focus on just thirty days, trust becomes
(33:48):
achievable again through small, consistent actions. So what I suggest
to them is to create a thirty day agreement.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Sharing a moment.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Now where I introduce this idea to just in a
glad is as you listen, notice how the energy shifts
when the focus moves from forever to just the next
thirty days. For the remainder of this session, I want
to focus in on creating what I see as a
thirty day agreement that you both make together that becomes
(34:19):
a rolling agreement, which is an agreement to everything that
you both just mentioned, the growth, the love, the connection.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
But we want to do it with practical terminology.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
And what I mean by that is, well, how often
do we want to talk, what do we want to
talk about? How often do we want to meet and connect?
Let's structure that. Let's create what our current boundaries are
and where we want to stop them, because what we
don't want it to become is that right now you
both feel really clear that it's not time to get
back together. It would be too early, it would be
too rushed, it would be too forced. And we want
(34:52):
to get to a point where we don't rush into
it or fall into those moments. But that you both
are able to progress, and so I want you to
talk about what a thirty day agreement would look like.
It's like, what are we both signing up for in
terms of time for connection, in terms of space, in
terms of how often we're getting together, and in terms
of whatever our boundaries. So we okay, we may spend
(35:15):
one or two three days together in a row, but
then gonna need two days off, like I'm gonna you know,
whatever it is, and then that can change. That agreement
becomes something that you come back to, but actually the
next thirty days, I'm willing to spend one more day together.
And it becomes like that guideline I gave you for
the three part communication. It's that whenever emotions take over
in either direction, you have something to turn to and
(35:36):
you both keep each other accountable to that you're not
making a commitment for the next twelve months. It's a
thirty day agreement that again, what I would encourage you
to do in thirty days is to sit down and
do this again together as if I was there, and say, Okay, well,
this is what went well, this is what didn't work.
Maybe we didn't spend enough time together, Maybe we just
spent too much time together, maybe there was this, and
(35:57):
so then you create a new agreement and it's thirty days,
which means you're not signing a contract for life or
I think that's sometimes what's so hard about relationships. As
we make these big decisions, we're like, oh, we're just
going to move back in together and figure it out,
and it's like, well, okay, well what does that look
like in thirty days and sixty days? And so this
patient approach is healthier for Laer, it's healthier for both
(36:18):
of you, as you've both talked about. And so if
right now you're both signing up to no other romantic partners,
it's a thirty day agreement. If that changes in ninety days,
it's something you can update each other on and move on.
But at least there's clarity and you both have a
transparent approach to it.
Speaker 6 (36:33):
I agree, Yeah, I don't know why imagining it has
to be like a three page agreement.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
You know, to be honest, the simpler and the less
the better. To me, it's not about how many points
you have on it. It's more about having the key
things that move the needle for both of you and
checking in with how you feel. So yeah, I would
say I would like you both to like write this
out in your words together. It would be a great
(36:59):
activity to do together as your homework, print it out,
keep it somewhere really really clear. Or you both have
the same print out the same words you've chosen those
words together, and ideas for each as well. You know,
you may find that going out for brunch and dinner
is nice, but then you want to add other activities
and things and trips or whatever else that includes. I
(37:22):
think getting language downright so that you both feel really
clear about it and you know what you're honoring would
be something I would recommend you both do after this together.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Does that feel good?
Speaker 6 (37:31):
This feels really good.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
The beauty of the thirty day contract isn't in grand promises.
It's in small, consistent actions that rebuild trust slowly and intentionally.
Trust isn't restored through intensity, It's restored through repetition. Here's
an exercise. Create a thirty day contract with the other
person in your relationship. In the agreement, be short to
(37:54):
include these three things. One, identify your core pillars, what
are integral to the relationship, what they are, and what
they mean to you. Two set realistic commitments and boundaries
that you both feel good about. Number three, revisit and
renew your agreement regularly. This is a working document and
not a one undone deal. These five principles are just
(38:17):
a few of the powerful insights you'll hear in my
audible original Messy Love. For much more where that came from,
please check out Messy Love exclusively on Audible. Check it
out at audible dot com, forward slash messy Loove. Thank
you for listening. Remember I'm forever in your corner and
always rooting for you.
Host
Jay Shetty
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