January 8, 2025 • 16 mins
Karen Read is back in court and Nick Rocco is here to keep us upto date
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dashy and the jam In Morning Show with DJ fourn
and Sawntid Morning Cousin's.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Number one for hip hop jam in ninety four or five. Hi, everybody,
good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I was just saying off air to Nick Rocco. I
just Nick, I cannot believe we are back here. But
Nick Rocco is joining us. And it's not to say
that I didn't think you would ever join us again.
I just hoped that when you did, maybe we were
discussing a different court case. But unfortunately we are back
(00:36):
in pre trial hearings, getting ready and gearing up for
what could be a second trial for Karen Reid. April
is a long way away, like you said, so we
will see what happens. But yesterday we had on the
stand a dog bite experts who I believe was getting
you know, just requestioned before we get to her and
(00:58):
you being in court yesterday because I know you were
physically Nick, I'm going to ask you a super simple question,
but you know, new people listening, It's twenty twenty five,
holidays happened to all of that.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Let's just do a little reset.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
If you had to answer in about a minute or so,
who is Karen Reid?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Karen Reid is a factually innocent woman being framed for
a murder that she didn't commit on her Boston police
officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe. Basically, long story short, they're saying
she backed into him going twenty four miles per hour,
and the defense is saying, no, he went inside the house,
(01:37):
got beat up, and got left outside to die.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Okay, So she goes to trial. That trial ends how.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
The first trial was ended in a mistrial. The jury
had said that she was not guilty on counts one
and three. They will hung on count two. And we
are still waiting on a decision from the Supreme Court
to find out if they are going to drop charges
one and three for people.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Who you know, might not be hip to the courtroom
and all of the inner workings and what happens and
what exactly is.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
A pre trial.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So pre trial is basically where they get all the
evidence in, they get all their experts in leading up
to everything that is going to be mentioned at the trial.
And what we saw yesterday was something called a dabber hearing,
which is basically the prosecution wants to exclude the expert,
(02:34):
the defense wants to keep the experts, So they're supposed
to go over her credentials.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Okay, now her as in this dog bite expert, never
forget Chloe. Guys, Chloe was the German shepherd that lived
inside the home that John O'Keeffe was quote dropped off at, and.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Chloe just poofed disappeared. Now, a lot of people believe.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
That some of the wounds on John O'Keefe's by were
similar to that of a dog bite. So then it
was the big question of Okay, well where's Chloe? What
happened to Chloe? I believe we were told in trial
that Chloe was moved to a home in Maine, but
we never got a photo, We never heard anything Vermont. Okay,
(03:18):
and just before we get to the actual dog bite expert,
where are we expected now to believe that Chloe is?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
What was Chloe's movement?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So yesterday Hank Brennan, which is the prosecutor for the state,
thought he dropped a bombshell and said that hey, after
three years, we finally went to Vermont and we got
teeth impressions of Chloe and we measure her toenails. He
kept calling the pause toenails, which was absolutely ridiculous. But anyways,
(03:50):
so they're claiming they went to.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Vermont, so they're claiming basaw Chloe.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Correct. But the issue is is you know Chloe was
given to an owner, right, and then that new owner
gave Chloe to a new owner. So you got to
ask yourself, why is this dog being passed around if
it even is Chloe? Right. So they're saying they got
these impressions of the dog's teeth, but one of the
(04:15):
biggest issues is this attack happened three years ago. I
mean teeth move, teith, fallout. The impressions of these of
the dog is actually not even admissible in court. So
yesterday when Hank Brennan thought he dropped this bombshell on
doctor Marie Russell, saying, so do you want to see these?
Do you want to go and see the dogs, She's like,
(04:36):
I don't need to, Like it's been three years, I
don't need to see the teeth because it's irrelevant at
this point.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Interesting. So doctor Marie Russell's name was just mentioned. She
is and correct me if I'm wrong. Nick a retired.
I think like California er doctor who claims to be
an expert when it comes to identifying dog marks and
dog bites.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Correct in actually a little fun fact. So, yes, she
lives in California now, but she was actually the first
email Maldon police officer as well, wow, when she lived
in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah, and she in fact does believe and has stand
on that she thinks that some of the marks on
John O'Keefe's body are potentially dog bites.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
No, with.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
She's more than certain now that those our dog bites
or dog scratches from Chloe.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
If for some reason anybody is a little bit confused
about Chloe and the dog bites and all of these things, Nick,
I'll let you hop in here. What is the theory
on Chloe being included in what could have potentially happened
to John O'Keeffe inside the home.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So if you look at the injuries on Officite John O'Keeffe,
the injuries are to his right arm and the back
of his head. Now, the state is claiming that Karen
read back into him going twenty four miles per hour.
Yet there's no bruises on his body, there's no broken
bone on his body. So the defense now is saying
(06:03):
that John O'Keeffe went inside thirty fourth faar of you
where the party was at, a fight broke out, and
anybody who has a dog, I mean, even if you're
play fighting, your dog gets involved, right Yeah, So now
imagine a real fight. What's going to happen. You have
a German shepherd who she wasn't a she wasn't a
police dog, but she was the dog of a of
(06:24):
a of a cop as well. So there might be
some you know, in house training, but she's not actually
like a police a police dog. And when you look
at these marks, all of the marks are parallel. Now,
the state is claiming that when she backed up, the
tail light, which is polly carbonate, shattered into forty five
(06:46):
pieces and basically almost like a shotgun shell, went right
into John Dimond sliced them up. But there's just absolutely
no way. And the reason why there's no way is
because polly carbonate does not shatter. It's one of the
most hardest, it's the hardest plastic you can possibly make.
It just doesn't shatter. So the whole tail like cutting
his arm, doesn't make sense. What else could have happened? Right, Well,
(07:08):
they got rid of the dog. Why did they get
rid of the dog?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Why did think it rid of the dog. Yes, why
did they get rid of Chloe? It just never made
sense to me.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So they clean the got rid of the dog because
after John O'Keeffe had passed away, Chloe got out of
the yard attacked another dog walking walking by. And as
as that little dog fight broke out, the owner tried
to break it up. Then she got bit and she
has like a she had a nasty wound on her hand,
which we've seen in court now because the defense has
(07:37):
that evidence right, and.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
There was also a big question mark and just because
we're here, was it ever true? Because I remember when
everything first happened and there were talks about the dog
bite and talks about Chloe that inside the home it
was carpeted in the basement and they got rid of
the carpet shortly there after John O'Keeffe died. Was that
true or was that just a fake rumor?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Oh? They did. I mean even even Brian Albert said
on stand except the reason why he said they did
the basement floor over was because they had a water
leak from the bathroom. But in all reality, when you
have a water leak in the bathroom, you're not gonna
like rip up the whole floor. You're gonna cut out
a little section of that floor and just redo that, right.
(08:21):
And one of the most interesting things is that Nicole Albert,
who is the homeowner as well, in her testimony, she
stated that the reason why they sold the house was
because they didn't have money to upkeep it. But all
of a sudden, you had money just to redo the basement.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Right, Make it makes sense now. And there's so many
like you get rid of the dog. There, there was
the carpet, there was a basement situation. I also had
heard a rumor about the pool in the backyard that
they filled the pool.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Again, what did you.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Say at the brother's house the pool golf filled. We
don't know what's in it, right, Yeah, we don't know
what's in that pool. But yeah, this is this is
there's just yeah, I mean, it's honestly getting wilder and
wild it is. We thought it was already wild enough.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
We did.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And there's so many things where you're like, no, that
that can't be true, and then it does come out
to be true.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And that is how it actually happened.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Being in court yesterday, I know you said that, you know,
Hank Brennan, the prosecutor thought he dropped a big bomb
on everybody that they found Chloe.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Is there anything else in court yesterday that.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Was quote like a big bomb that maybe you already
knew but we didn't.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah. So again, these are Hank Brennan's words. There hasn't
been any pen to paper yet. There's no AFFI David,
you know, with this information on it. But what he
did say is so we all know the FBI is involved,
and we all know that the FBI is still investigating
this case. Right. The FBI confirmed the Google search happened
by Jen McCabe, The FBI confirms that Karen Rei did
(09:48):
not strike them with the vehicle, and then the FBI
brought in these two ARCA experts to explain the whole theory. Right,
So Hank Brennan yesterday decides to say that the US
Attorneys Office hired a medical examiner who confirms that these
are not animal bites. Now, there's only one issue with that,
is a medical examiner. You know, they do the autopsies,
(10:13):
but ninety nine percent of dog bites are not fatal.
So medical examiners very very rarely see dog bites. So
when you get a dog bite, where do you go.
You go to the emergency room. Who treats you an
emergency room physician who is an emergency room physician, doctor
Marie Russell. So she sees them a lot more than
(10:33):
a medical examiner does. So you know, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I mean, when you think about fatalities, we're not a
lot of time we're not discussing a dog. Now it
does happen, don't get me wrong, but a lot of
times you're right, it's a dog bit me. I had
to go to the eye to get stitches or whatever
the case may be.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It I do see that thought process.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So basically, yesterday with doctor Marie Russell on the stand,
the whole purpose of that he was to find out
if she qualifies as an expert. Now I know everyone says, okay,
well she qualified in the first trial, she should automatically
qualify in the second trial. But unfortunately that's not how
it works because this is a totally separate trial from
the first one. So normally, you go in, you de credentials,
(11:17):
you asked a few questions, that just makes a decision.
But what we saw yesterday was more of a cross
examination of doctor Marie Russell from Hank Brennan, and one
of the things that he kept saying was that there
was no methodology to doctor Marie Russell's findings. He actually
(11:37):
stated that eight times in court and she kept giving
the same answer, which was she went through her own
pattern recognition, and that is rooted in medical literature. Right.
So there's two articles called the munich In Pollock which
actually it proves that pattern recognition is in fact right,
it's a way to determine dog bites. And the point
(11:59):
of these articles is to established the pattern recognition is
acceptable in court to be qualified as an expert. And
Hank Brannan was like, well, you're not giving me the
answer I want. You're not telling me what I want.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
What I want to hear. I don't like that answer.
All right, So two things, Because we are running out
of time. What is next? What's next for Karen? What
are we going to see in court? When's the next
pre child?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So right now they're trying to exclude the dog experts.
They filed emotion to exclude their digital forensic expert who
found the Google search, and then they also just filed
emotion yesterday to exclude the FBI experts. So what does
that tell you? Okay, I mean these guys are more
qualified than anybody probably that's testified in that court room before,
(12:48):
and the state wants to exclude them, so they're just
trying to wipe away her defense. So basically, those are
the next hearings that we're going to eventually see. The
judge has to decide whether we have to bring all
the experts in to give these hearings to or she's
just going to deny it and allow them to testify
as they did in the first.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Trials, trying to be like pick and choose when they
want the FBI.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
The FBI was good enough.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
To get Diddy, why can't they why can't they help
out here that?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Well, the issue now is you have the FBI saying,
you know, the medical examiner are saying it wasn't dog bites.
But then you also have the FBI saying camingden him
with the car. So it's it's an interesting it's an
interesting dynamic on that.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
When will you be back in court?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I believe the next one is February sixth. I gotta
check what day it is, but yeah, they're back in
the small court room for some of these hearings. So
when they do that, there's only limited amount of people
to get in.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
But one one thing I will say before I go
is the if anybody watched the court hearing yesterday, Attorney
Alessi he is from New York. If you listen to
his closing argument, he actually pointed out the fact that
so he's got a law firm out in New York.
And in twenty twenty three, the court ruled in favor
(14:06):
that stated the doctor that sees entreats dog wounds is
reliable in a Dauber hearing, and that was ruled on
by a judge, and he made sure Judge Beverly Canoni
knew that and that his law firm was the one
that presented this to the judge in New York, basically saying, hey, judge, listen,
other judges are agreeing with what I'm saying here, do
(14:27):
the right thing.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Interesting, And obviously I always have to ask how are
Karen's spirits?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
They're good? I mean, you know, it's day by day
it's costing a lot of money, as expected, because these
dog experts are not cheap. For example, she had to
fly Marie Russell in two times from California, and thank
god she doesn't have to fly her in a third time.
Hopefully the third time is for when she testifies. But
all of these experts she has for us from out
of state, so she's flying them all in. Yeah, you
(14:57):
can go to free Karen Reid dot net if you
want to help her out. And she really appreciates everyone's support.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, no, I know.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
She does, and I've seen her thanking people and been
in and around on the Facebook and stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So free Karen read dot net.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Nick, keep us posted. Obviously, we'll have you back on
in February. But if there's anything in between that we
need to know, you know what.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
One thing, Yeah, Michael Practa has a hearing on January
fifth and find out if he if he loses his
job permanently or not. So that's a big date as well.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Jan well jan fifteenth, when yep, Jan fifteen, okay, so
next week?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Wow? All right? Yeah, all right, well well then well
maybe well we'll chitchat with you next week about that then.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, you got it?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
All right, Nick, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
You got it.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
There's no way he's keeping that guy's going to text
alone by But like again, how are we How I
really thought that once this was done and it was
going to be done, and now we're I mean, we're
back wondering where Chloe is.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
And I also assume they're going to spend just as
much on like prosecution too.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, that's not cheap. And anybody listen. We know that
there are people who believe Karen.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Redid it, and that's fine, but I want you to
just for one second, put yourself in that situation. Your
friend is murdered or found dead outside.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Of a home.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
The next day, that home gets rid of the carpet
in their basement, the brother fills the pool, and the
dog has just disappeared.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You're not gonna ask questions about that. That doesn't seem
weird to you either way. If you missed any part.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Of our Nick Rocko conversation, Nick is the best. He's
always in the courtroom, a friend of Karen Reid. You
can catch up via the podcast just down the free
iHeartRadio app and in the little search bar put ashlble
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It's actually in the Jim Morning Show. Thanks Nick,
Dashy and the jam In Morning Show with DJ fourn
and Sawntid Morning Cousin's.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Number one for hip hop jam in ninety four or five. Hi, everybody,
good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I was just saying off air to Nick Rocco. I
just Nick, I cannot believe we are back here. But
Nick Rocco is joining us. And it's not to say
that I didn't think you would ever join us again.
I just hoped that when you did, maybe we were
discussing a different court case. But unfortunately we are back
(00:36):
in pre trial hearings, getting ready and gearing up for
what could be a second trial for Karen Reid. April
is a long way away, like you said, so we
will see what happens. But yesterday we had on the
stand a dog bite experts who I believe was getting
you know, just requestioned before we get to her and
(00:58):
you being in court yesterday because I know you were
physically Nick, I'm going to ask you a super simple question,
but you know, new people listening, It's twenty twenty five,
holidays happened to all of that.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Let's just do a little reset.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
If you had to answer in about a minute or so,
who is Karen Reid?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Karen Reid is a factually innocent woman being framed for
a murder that she didn't commit on her Boston police
officer boyfriend, John O'Keefe. Basically, long story short, they're saying
she backed into him going twenty four miles per hour,
and the defense is saying, no, he went inside the house,
(01:37):
got beat up, and got left outside to die.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Okay, So she goes to trial. That trial ends how.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
The first trial was ended in a mistrial. The jury
had said that she was not guilty on counts one
and three. They will hung on count two. And we
are still waiting on a decision from the Supreme Court
to find out if they are going to drop charges
one and three for people.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Who you know, might not be hip to the courtroom
and all of the inner workings and what happens and
what exactly is.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
A pre trial.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So pre trial is basically where they get all the
evidence in, they get all their experts in leading up
to everything that is going to be mentioned at the trial.
And what we saw yesterday was something called a dabber hearing,
which is basically the prosecution wants to exclude the expert,
(02:34):
the defense wants to keep the experts, So they're supposed
to go over her credentials.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Okay, now her as in this dog bite expert, never
forget Chloe. Guys, Chloe was the German shepherd that lived
inside the home that John O'Keeffe was quote dropped off at, and.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Chloe just poofed disappeared. Now, a lot of people believe.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
That some of the wounds on John O'Keefe's by were
similar to that of a dog bite. So then it
was the big question of Okay, well where's Chloe? What
happened to Chloe? I believe we were told in trial
that Chloe was moved to a home in Maine, but
we never got a photo, We never heard anything Vermont. Okay,
(03:18):
and just before we get to the actual dog bite expert,
where are we expected now to believe that Chloe is?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
What was Chloe's movement?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So yesterday Hank Brennan, which is the prosecutor for the state,
thought he dropped a bombshell and said that hey, after
three years, we finally went to Vermont and we got
teeth impressions of Chloe and we measure her toenails. He
kept calling the pause toenails, which was absolutely ridiculous. But anyways,
(03:50):
so they're claiming they went to.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Vermont, so they're claiming basaw Chloe.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Correct. But the issue is is you know Chloe was
given to an owner, right, and then that new owner
gave Chloe to a new owner. So you got to
ask yourself, why is this dog being passed around if
it even is Chloe? Right. So they're saying they got
these impressions of the dog's teeth, but one of the
(04:15):
biggest issues is this attack happened three years ago. I
mean teeth move, teith, fallout. The impressions of these of
the dog is actually not even admissible in court. So
yesterday when Hank Brennan thought he dropped this bombshell on
doctor Marie Russell, saying, so do you want to see these?
Do you want to go and see the dogs, She's like,
(04:36):
I don't need to, Like it's been three years, I
don't need to see the teeth because it's irrelevant at
this point.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Interesting. So doctor Marie Russell's name was just mentioned. She
is and correct me if I'm wrong. Nick a retired.
I think like California er doctor who claims to be
an expert when it comes to identifying dog marks and
dog bites.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Correct in actually a little fun fact. So, yes, she
lives in California now, but she was actually the first
email Maldon police officer as well, wow, when she lived
in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yeah, and she in fact does believe and has stand
on that she thinks that some of the marks on
John O'Keefe's body are potentially dog bites.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
No, with.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
She's more than certain now that those our dog bites
or dog scratches from Chloe.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
If for some reason anybody is a little bit confused
about Chloe and the dog bites and all of these things, Nick,
I'll let you hop in here. What is the theory
on Chloe being included in what could have potentially happened
to John O'Keeffe inside the home.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So if you look at the injuries on Officite John O'Keeffe,
the injuries are to his right arm and the back
of his head. Now, the state is claiming that Karen
read back into him going twenty four miles per hour.
Yet there's no bruises on his body, there's no broken
bone on his body. So the defense now is saying
(06:03):
that John O'Keeffe went inside thirty fourth faar of you
where the party was at, a fight broke out, and
anybody who has a dog, I mean, even if you're
play fighting, your dog gets involved, right Yeah, So now
imagine a real fight. What's going to happen. You have
a German shepherd who she wasn't a she wasn't a
police dog, but she was the dog of a of
(06:24):
a of a cop as well. So there might be
some you know, in house training, but she's not actually
like a police a police dog. And when you look
at these marks, all of the marks are parallel. Now,
the state is claiming that when she backed up, the
tail light, which is polly carbonate, shattered into forty five
(06:46):
pieces and basically almost like a shotgun shell, went right
into John Dimond sliced them up. But there's just absolutely
no way. And the reason why there's no way is
because polly carbonate does not shatter. It's one of the
most hardest, it's the hardest plastic you can possibly make.
It just doesn't shatter. So the whole tail like cutting
his arm, doesn't make sense. What else could have happened? Right, Well,
(07:08):
they got rid of the dog. Why did they get
rid of the dog?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Why did think it rid of the dog. Yes, why
did they get rid of Chloe? It just never made
sense to me.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So they clean the got rid of the dog because
after John O'Keeffe had passed away, Chloe got out of
the yard attacked another dog walking walking by. And as
as that little dog fight broke out, the owner tried
to break it up. Then she got bit and she
has like a she had a nasty wound on her hand,
which we've seen in court now because the defense has
(07:37):
that evidence right, and.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
There was also a big question mark and just because
we're here, was it ever true? Because I remember when
everything first happened and there were talks about the dog
bite and talks about Chloe that inside the home it
was carpeted in the basement and they got rid of
the carpet shortly there after John O'Keeffe died. Was that
true or was that just a fake rumor?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Oh? They did. I mean even even Brian Albert said
on stand except the reason why he said they did
the basement floor over was because they had a water
leak from the bathroom. But in all reality, when you
have a water leak in the bathroom, you're not gonna
like rip up the whole floor. You're gonna cut out
a little section of that floor and just redo that, right.
(08:21):
And one of the most interesting things is that Nicole Albert,
who is the homeowner as well, in her testimony, she
stated that the reason why they sold the house was
because they didn't have money to upkeep it. But all
of a sudden, you had money just to redo the basement.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Right, Make it makes sense now. And there's so many
like you get rid of the dog. There, there was
the carpet, there was a basement situation. I also had
heard a rumor about the pool in the backyard that
they filled the pool.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Again, what did you.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Say at the brother's house the pool golf filled. We
don't know what's in it, right, Yeah, we don't know
what's in that pool. But yeah, this is this is
there's just yeah, I mean, it's honestly getting wilder and
wild it is. We thought it was already wild enough.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
We did.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
And there's so many things where you're like, no, that
that can't be true, and then it does come out
to be true.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And that is how it actually happened.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Being in court yesterday, I know you said that, you know,
Hank Brennan, the prosecutor thought he dropped a big bomb
on everybody that they found Chloe.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Is there anything else in court yesterday that.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Was quote like a big bomb that maybe you already
knew but we didn't.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah. So again, these are Hank Brennan's words. There hasn't
been any pen to paper yet. There's no AFFI David,
you know, with this information on it. But what he
did say is so we all know the FBI is involved,
and we all know that the FBI is still investigating
this case. Right. The FBI confirmed the Google search happened
by Jen McCabe, The FBI confirms that Karen Rei did
(09:48):
not strike them with the vehicle, and then the FBI
brought in these two ARCA experts to explain the whole theory. Right,
So Hank Brennan yesterday decides to say that the US
Attorneys Office hired a medical examiner who confirms that these
are not animal bites. Now, there's only one issue with that,
is a medical examiner. You know, they do the autopsies,
(10:13):
but ninety nine percent of dog bites are not fatal.
So medical examiners very very rarely see dog bites. So
when you get a dog bite, where do you go.
You go to the emergency room. Who treats you an
emergency room physician who is an emergency room physician, doctor
Marie Russell. So she sees them a lot more than
(10:33):
a medical examiner does. So you know, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I mean, when you think about fatalities, we're not a
lot of time we're not discussing a dog. Now it
does happen, don't get me wrong, but a lot of
times you're right, it's a dog bit me. I had
to go to the eye to get stitches or whatever
the case may be.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
It I do see that thought process.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So basically, yesterday with doctor Marie Russell on the stand,
the whole purpose of that he was to find out
if she qualifies as an expert. Now I know everyone says, okay,
well she qualified in the first trial, she should automatically
qualify in the second trial. But unfortunately that's not how
it works because this is a totally separate trial from
the first one. So normally, you go in, you de credentials,
(11:17):
you asked a few questions, that just makes a decision.
But what we saw yesterday was more of a cross
examination of doctor Marie Russell from Hank Brennan, and one
of the things that he kept saying was that there
was no methodology to doctor Marie Russell's findings. He actually
(11:37):
stated that eight times in court and she kept giving
the same answer, which was she went through her own
pattern recognition, and that is rooted in medical literature. Right.
So there's two articles called the munich In Pollock which
actually it proves that pattern recognition is in fact right,
it's a way to determine dog bites. And the point
(11:59):
of these articles is to established the pattern recognition is
acceptable in court to be qualified as an expert. And
Hank Brannan was like, well, you're not giving me the
answer I want. You're not telling me what I want.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
What I want to hear. I don't like that answer.
All right, So two things, Because we are running out
of time. What is next? What's next for Karen? What
are we going to see in court? When's the next
pre child?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So right now they're trying to exclude the dog experts.
They filed emotion to exclude their digital forensic expert who
found the Google search, and then they also just filed
emotion yesterday to exclude the FBI experts. So what does
that tell you? Okay, I mean these guys are more
qualified than anybody probably that's testified in that court room before,
(12:48):
and the state wants to exclude them, so they're just
trying to wipe away her defense. So basically, those are
the next hearings that we're going to eventually see. The
judge has to decide whether we have to bring all
the experts in to give these hearings to or she's
just going to deny it and allow them to testify
as they did in the first.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Trials, trying to be like pick and choose when they
want the FBI.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
The FBI was good enough.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
To get Diddy, why can't they why can't they help
out here that?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Well, the issue now is you have the FBI saying,
you know, the medical examiner are saying it wasn't dog bites.
But then you also have the FBI saying camingden him
with the car. So it's it's an interesting it's an
interesting dynamic on that.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
When will you be back in court?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I believe the next one is February sixth. I gotta
check what day it is, but yeah, they're back in
the small court room for some of these hearings. So
when they do that, there's only limited amount of people
to get in.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
But one one thing I will say before I go
is the if anybody watched the court hearing yesterday, Attorney
Alessi he is from New York. If you listen to
his closing argument, he actually pointed out the fact that
so he's got a law firm out in New York.
And in twenty twenty three, the court ruled in favor
(14:06):
that stated the doctor that sees entreats dog wounds is
reliable in a Dauber hearing, and that was ruled on
by a judge, and he made sure Judge Beverly Canoni
knew that and that his law firm was the one
that presented this to the judge in New York, basically saying, hey, judge, listen,
other judges are agreeing with what I'm saying here, do
(14:27):
the right thing.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Interesting, And obviously I always have to ask how are
Karen's spirits?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
They're good? I mean, you know, it's day by day
it's costing a lot of money, as expected, because these
dog experts are not cheap. For example, she had to
fly Marie Russell in two times from California, and thank
god she doesn't have to fly her in a third time.
Hopefully the third time is for when she testifies. But
all of these experts she has for us from out
of state, so she's flying them all in. Yeah, you
(14:57):
can go to free Karen Reid dot net if you
want to help her out. And she really appreciates everyone's support.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, no, I know.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
She does, and I've seen her thanking people and been
in and around on the Facebook and stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So free Karen read dot net.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Nick, keep us posted. Obviously, we'll have you back on
in February. But if there's anything in between that we
need to know, you know what.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
One thing, Yeah, Michael Practa has a hearing on January
fifth and find out if he if he loses his
job permanently or not. So that's a big date as well.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Jan well jan fifteenth, when yep, Jan fifteen, okay, so
next week?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Wow? All right? Yeah, all right, well well then well
maybe well we'll chitchat with you next week about that then.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, you got it?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
All right, Nick, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
You got it.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
There's no way he's keeping that guy's going to text
alone by But like again, how are we How I
really thought that once this was done and it was
going to be done, and now we're I mean, we're
back wondering where Chloe is.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
And I also assume they're going to spend just as
much on like prosecution too.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, that's not cheap. And anybody listen. We know that
there are people who believe Karen.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Redid it, and that's fine, but I want you to
just for one second, put yourself in that situation. Your
friend is murdered or found dead outside.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Of a home.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
The next day, that home gets rid of the carpet
in their basement, the brother fills the pool, and the
dog has just disappeared.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You're not gonna ask questions about that. That doesn't seem
weird to you either way. If you missed any part.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Of our Nick Rocko conversation, Nick is the best. He's
always in the courtroom, a friend of Karen Reid. You
can catch up via the podcast just down the free
iHeartRadio app and in the little search bar put ashlble
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It's actually in the Jim Morning Show. Thanks Nick,
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