May 13, 2025 • 9 mins
I have Isabel Kaeding in studio and I learned something about going to jail in Council Bluffs.
100 Years ago... You did NOT want to be there!
100 Years ago... You did NOT want to be there!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, it's Lucy Chapman. Thanks so much for joining me.
Four here's more another podcast. I love podcasts because it
gives me the opportunity to talk to some really fascinating
people with no time restraints. So hang on because we
have got a great guest. I keep saying we like,
I don't know, like I got a mouse in my pocket.
Maybe I do, you don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I've got a.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Great guest today Isabelle Cating. She is with Rails West
Museum and Squirrel Cage Jail Museum.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Isabelle. Welcome, Hi, Lucy. It's great to have you here.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
We have such a rich history of trains and railroads
and all things that go with that in the Omaha
and Council Bluffs area, so this is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah. So the Rails West Museum is actually the only
depot left in Council Bluffs, and then the Squirrel Cage Show.
While it's not railroad related, it is a really fascinating,
one of a kind building over in Council Bluffs.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's been there a while.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I think I remember going there as a little kid
on a school or maybe it was a general dodge house.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It might have been. Well, you definitely. Remember the Squirrel
Cage jail. It was built in eighteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Five, okay, so it was here before me.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yes, yeah, and it was in operating jail until nineteen
sixty nine, okay, yes, and then it became the museum,
so you can go in and tour all the old
jail cells. And it's a rotating jail block, so it's
the only three story rotating jail block in the country.
Actually that you building moves, so inside the building, the
(01:30):
block of cells all will rotate. So the jailer could
only access one jail cell at a time, so then
you only need one jailer for up to eighty prisoners.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I am stunned.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm absolutely speechless. How would that even work?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So it was like a lazy Susan capt sure, sure,
And so the jailer lived at the on the top floor.
And then the pie shaped cells were very small, so
you could fit a lot of prisoners within the jail
and really maximum maximize the security with minimizing cost for
paying the wardens.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
But if there was a fire, oh yeah, well it
was made of it was all rock though, yes.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Ye yep, So even with the fired it wasn't the
safest for considering our fire codes nowadays. But all of
the jail sets have been fire coded now, so now
it's safe.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But well, and I would think that with that kind
of a situation, with that kind of a jail, that
might keep the criminal activity exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Nothing would scare you straight quite like a jail cell.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Like that slice slice a slice a pie. Yeah, and
it's not even good. Well, that is fascinating. So that's
open and you can is it can you move? Does
it move right now?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
So it doesn't move right now?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Nope.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
But it'll be reopening on May twenty fourth at our
grand opening for both of these museums, and that'll be
from ten to four on Saturday, May twenty fourth, And
you can purchase a ticket for fifteen dollars per adult
with kids free for these museums, and you can purchase
those at either of these museums or at the Union
Pacific Railroad Museum. Now.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Council Bluffs was a big part of the beginnings of
the railroad. And I've talked about Hell let's see. Oh gosh,
I'm totally.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Blanking on the name Hell on wheels. Yes, thank you.
I loved the series. I loved it so much I
can't remember the name of it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I loved the series, and I know they talked about
Council Bluffs a lot more than they talked about Omaha.
In fact, I'm not one hundred percent sure. I think
it was mentioned once or twice.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, So Council Bluffs was miles zero on the trans
Continental Railroad. So if you didn't know, they President Lincoln
came to Council Bluffs and declared that would be the
start of the trans Continental Railroad. So there's a rich
history of all things railroad and travel over in Council
Bluffs and that can be seen with the Rails West Museum.
(03:57):
It's a beautiful building that is the only standing depot
and countable apps which used to have countless depots, and
it was an original Rock Island depots that was the
rail line that ran through and gorgeous architecture. All of
the wood is original and you can see the breezeway
and it's right next to the track so you can
(04:17):
see the Iowa Interstate Railroad go by.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So you can find out a lot of history right
there in that building.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Definitely, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Could I go in there.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And discover why they used a golden nugget when they finished,
because this isn't gold, rather soft.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
It is soft. Well, it was very decorative, so it
doesn't actually not an actually road together. No, no, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well I was thinking that could be the reason why
we had train wrecks back then.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Get rid of the gold dangerous.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
But you mentioned that there is a big event going
on on May twenty fourth at the grand opening.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, So on May twenty fourth, from ten to four,
both of these museums will be reopening to the public.
They were closed over the winter and we'll be reopening
and kind of with a facelift. Everything will be nicer
and more welcome to the public. Well, I have some
activities going on. I believe you guys will be there
as well. Yes, we will, and it should be, hopefully
fingers cross, a nice day. It's a Memorial weekend, so
(05:15):
if you don't have plans yet, come and stop down.
Tickets are only fifteen dollars, so they'll be cheap for
both museums and you can visit the Union Pacific Railroad
Museum too while you're down. There should be a really
fun time.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I'm planning on actually staying later so that I
can go ahead and do the tours it because I'll
be working and I won't be able to do that.
But I this is something I really really want to do.
You've been doing this for a while. How long have
you been involved with the Rails West and Squirrel Cage?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
So I just started with the Rails West and Squirrel
Cage because I work for the Union Pacific Railroad Museum. Okay,
So with the History on Track initiative, we're helping out
kind of revamp both of these institutions and collaborating together
to make it. Make this because we're all neighbors, so
making that street and a bustling museum hot spot.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
When you are just kind of standing around, you're done
with your duties, your official duties, but you're just kind
of milling around, just watching people. Do you see little
kids just look at these trains or look at stuff
in the museums and just with such wonder Oh.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yes, yeah, there's nothing like we have. On our top floor.
We have a model train that runs around our elevator
and so there's you can hear all the little kids
sprinting around to chase the model train during the day,
which is always great to hear.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And people are really happy to learn about this stuff.
Maybe had no idea.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, it's really rich history that's just in everybody's backyard
in the Omaha metro area and Council Bluffs.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Is it true that Omaha and Council Bluffs were kind
of like stopover cowboy towns where there.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Was a lot of gambling going on. And I'm not.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Sure about that, but it would make sense. And then
once there is no I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
then once the railroad came in really allowed both Omaha
and Council Bluffs to really blossom into the cities they
are today and.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Become best friends exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, and we are to this day exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I kid, but I.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Love Council Bluffs. I've got friends. I've got friends that
live in Council Bluffs. It's the grand opening of Rails
West Museum and the Squirrel Cage Museum. You said that
it will be the Squirrel Cage will be rotating.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Not right now, it will.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It doesn't rotate.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
It doesn't at all. It'll never do it again.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I'm future, I asked, because I thought earlier, I thought
you said.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It's not doing that right now, and no, not anymore.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, I took it as it will later, but not
right now.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
No, Unfortunately, I think it's days of rotating are probably over.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I won't say never, but probably not anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That would take a lot. Yeah, yeah, it's probably. It's
not like it's on stone or something.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
And so at least I don't throws some grapes so
that there makes some you know, wine or or all
of us and makes them olive oil.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
As it's grinding where milling milling corn. It'll get up
to the water.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
It would be great, right up to the Missouri River.
And do you know anything about the construction on four
to eighty? When is that going to be done? Hi,
I'm kidney, I'm giving you a hard time. But the
grand opening event is going on May twenty fourth. Just
fifteen dollars gets you into both the Squirrel Cage Jail
Museum and the Rails West Museum. And Isabelle, thank you
(08:24):
so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
We it's easy to find.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Tell me before I let you go, tell me about
the parking or is there any thing we need to know?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
So street parking and Council Bluffs on Saturdays is free.
So you can park anywhere. The meters do not run
on Saturdays. They do in Omaha, but they do not encounct.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
We need to talk to our mayor.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
No, that's a plus. So any street parking is fine.
All of them are within the same street. So Rails
West is about a mile away from the Squirrel Cage
Shield in the Union Pacific Museum. They're just right next
to our neighbors, those two. And so we'll just be
a kgo.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
R van kid you.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
R van will be there. But the actual street that
we're looking for is going.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
To be two hundred Pearl Street.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Pearl Street, Yeah, Pearl Street, that is the name that
I remember. Well, obviously I didn't, but now that you
said it, we're being silly now, but we are.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I'm love trains and this.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Is something I'm really looking forward to doing, and so
I'm going to be there. So come out and see me.
That's on May twenty fourth, Isabel, thank you so much
for being here today.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
We're going to have fun on May twenty fourth.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
It'll be a great time.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, Grand opening celebration Squirrel Cage Jail Museum and Rails
West museum and if you'd like to know anything more,
you can always give them a call, or you can
send me an email and I can pass it along.
So thanks so much for joining me today on Here's More.
I'm Lucy Chapman and back to more music if you
just go right over to kgoard dot com
Hi, it's Lucy Chapman. Thanks so much for joining me.
Four here's more another podcast. I love podcasts because it
gives me the opportunity to talk to some really fascinating
people with no time restraints. So hang on because we
have got a great guest. I keep saying we like,
I don't know, like I got a mouse in my pocket.
Maybe I do, you don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I've got a.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Great guest today Isabelle Cating. She is with Rails West
Museum and Squirrel Cage Jail Museum.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Isabelle. Welcome, Hi, Lucy. It's great to have you here.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
We have such a rich history of trains and railroads
and all things that go with that in the Omaha
and Council Bluffs area, so this is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah. So the Rails West Museum is actually the only
depot left in Council Bluffs, and then the Squirrel Cage Show.
While it's not railroad related, it is a really fascinating,
one of a kind building over in Council Bluffs.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's been there a while.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I think I remember going there as a little kid
on a school or maybe it was a general dodge house.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It might have been. Well, you definitely. Remember the Squirrel
Cage jail. It was built in eighteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Five, okay, so it was here before me.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yes, yeah, and it was in operating jail until nineteen
sixty nine, okay, yes, and then it became the museum,
so you can go in and tour all the old
jail cells. And it's a rotating jail block, so it's
the only three story rotating jail block in the country.
Actually that you building moves, so inside the building, the
(01:30):
block of cells all will rotate. So the jailer could
only access one jail cell at a time, so then
you only need one jailer for up to eighty prisoners.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I am stunned.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm absolutely speechless. How would that even work?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So it was like a lazy Susan capt sure, sure,
And so the jailer lived at the on the top floor.
And then the pie shaped cells were very small, so
you could fit a lot of prisoners within the jail
and really maximum maximize the security with minimizing cost for
paying the wardens.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
But if there was a fire, oh yeah, well it
was made of it was all rock though, yes.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Ye yep, So even with the fired it wasn't the
safest for considering our fire codes nowadays. But all of
the jail sets have been fire coded now, so now
it's safe.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But well, and I would think that with that kind
of a situation, with that kind of a jail, that
might keep the criminal activity exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Nothing would scare you straight quite like a jail cell.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Like that slice slice a slice a pie. Yeah, and
it's not even good. Well, that is fascinating. So that's
open and you can is it can you move? Does
it move right now?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
So it doesn't move right now?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Nope.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
But it'll be reopening on May twenty fourth at our
grand opening for both of these museums, and that'll be
from ten to four on Saturday, May twenty fourth, And
you can purchase a ticket for fifteen dollars per adult
with kids free for these museums, and you can purchase
those at either of these museums or at the Union
Pacific Railroad Museum. Now.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Council Bluffs was a big part of the beginnings of
the railroad. And I've talked about Hell let's see. Oh gosh,
I'm totally.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Blanking on the name Hell on wheels. Yes, thank you.
I loved the series. I loved it so much I
can't remember the name of it.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I loved the series, and I know they talked about
Council Bluffs a lot more than they talked about Omaha.
In fact, I'm not one hundred percent sure. I think
it was mentioned once or twice.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, So Council Bluffs was miles zero on the trans
Continental Railroad. So if you didn't know, they President Lincoln
came to Council Bluffs and declared that would be the
start of the trans Continental Railroad. So there's a rich
history of all things railroad and travel over in Council
Bluffs and that can be seen with the Rails West Museum.
(03:57):
It's a beautiful building that is the only standing depot
and countable apps which used to have countless depots, and
it was an original Rock Island depots that was the
rail line that ran through and gorgeous architecture. All of
the wood is original and you can see the breezeway
and it's right next to the track so you can
(04:17):
see the Iowa Interstate Railroad go by.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So you can find out a lot of history right
there in that building.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Definitely, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Could I go in there.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
And discover why they used a golden nugget when they finished,
because this isn't gold, rather soft.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
It is soft. Well, it was very decorative, so it
doesn't actually not an actually road together. No, no, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well I was thinking that could be the reason why
we had train wrecks back then.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Get rid of the gold dangerous.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
But you mentioned that there is a big event going
on on May twenty fourth at the grand opening.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, So on May twenty fourth, from ten to four,
both of these museums will be reopening to the public.
They were closed over the winter and we'll be reopening
and kind of with a facelift. Everything will be nicer
and more welcome to the public. Well, I have some
activities going on. I believe you guys will be there
as well. Yes, we will, and it should be, hopefully
fingers cross, a nice day. It's a Memorial weekend, so
(05:15):
if you don't have plans yet, come and stop down.
Tickets are only fifteen dollars, so they'll be cheap for
both museums and you can visit the Union Pacific Railroad
Museum too while you're down. There should be a really
fun time.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I'm planning on actually staying later so that I
can go ahead and do the tours it because I'll
be working and I won't be able to do that.
But I this is something I really really want to do.
You've been doing this for a while. How long have
you been involved with the Rails West and Squirrel Cage?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
So I just started with the Rails West and Squirrel
Cage because I work for the Union Pacific Railroad Museum. Okay,
So with the History on Track initiative, we're helping out
kind of revamp both of these institutions and collaborating together
to make it. Make this because we're all neighbors, so
making that street and a bustling museum hot spot.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
When you are just kind of standing around, you're done
with your duties, your official duties, but you're just kind
of milling around, just watching people. Do you see little
kids just look at these trains or look at stuff
in the museums and just with such wonder Oh.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yes, yeah, there's nothing like we have. On our top floor.
We have a model train that runs around our elevator
and so there's you can hear all the little kids
sprinting around to chase the model train during the day,
which is always great to hear.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And people are really happy to learn about this stuff.
Maybe had no idea.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, it's really rich history that's just in everybody's backyard
in the Omaha metro area and Council Bluffs.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Is it true that Omaha and Council Bluffs were kind
of like stopover cowboy towns where there.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Was a lot of gambling going on. And I'm not.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Sure about that, but it would make sense. And then
once there is no I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
then once the railroad came in really allowed both Omaha
and Council Bluffs to really blossom into the cities they
are today and.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Become best friends exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, and we are to this day exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I kid, but I.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Love Council Bluffs. I've got friends. I've got friends that
live in Council Bluffs. It's the grand opening of Rails
West Museum and the Squirrel Cage Museum. You said that
it will be the Squirrel Cage will be rotating.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Not right now, it will.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It doesn't rotate.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
It doesn't at all. It'll never do it again.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I'm future, I asked, because I thought earlier, I thought
you said.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It's not doing that right now, and no, not anymore.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, I took it as it will later, but not
right now.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
No, Unfortunately, I think it's days of rotating are probably over.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Gotcha.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I won't say never, but probably not anytime soon.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That would take a lot. Yeah, yeah, it's probably. It's
not like it's on stone or something.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
And so at least I don't throws some grapes so
that there makes some you know, wine or or all
of us and makes them olive oil.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
As it's grinding where milling milling corn. It'll get up
to the water.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
It would be great, right up to the Missouri River.
And do you know anything about the construction on four
to eighty? When is that going to be done? Hi,
I'm kidney, I'm giving you a hard time. But the
grand opening event is going on May twenty fourth. Just
fifteen dollars gets you into both the Squirrel Cage Jail
Museum and the Rails West Museum. And Isabelle, thank you
(08:24):
so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
We it's easy to find.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Tell me before I let you go, tell me about
the parking or is there any thing we need to know?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
So street parking and Council Bluffs on Saturdays is free.
So you can park anywhere. The meters do not run
on Saturdays. They do in Omaha, but they do not encounct.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
We need to talk to our mayor.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
No, that's a plus. So any street parking is fine.
All of them are within the same street. So Rails
West is about a mile away from the Squirrel Cage
Shield in the Union Pacific Museum. They're just right next
to our neighbors, those two. And so we'll just be
a kgo.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
R van kid you.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
R van will be there. But the actual street that
we're looking for is going.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
To be two hundred Pearl Street.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Pearl Street, Yeah, Pearl Street, that is the name that
I remember. Well, obviously I didn't, but now that you
said it, we're being silly now, but we are.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I'm love trains and this.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Is something I'm really looking forward to doing, and so
I'm going to be there. So come out and see me.
That's on May twenty fourth, Isabel, thank you so much
for being here today.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
We're going to have fun on May twenty fourth.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
It'll be a great time.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, Grand opening celebration Squirrel Cage Jail Museum and Rails
West museum and if you'd like to know anything more,
you can always give them a call, or you can
send me an email and I can pass it along.
So thanks so much for joining me today on Here's More.
I'm Lucy Chapman and back to more music if you
just go right over to kgoard dot com
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