August 26, 2024 • 12 mins
Multi-time New York Times bestselling author Ian O'Connor joins The A-Team to talk his new book on legendary NFL quarterback Aaron Rodgers. He starts off by talking about the chances that Bill Belichick will soon become the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. He talks about what went into his book on Rodgers. Plus, how Rodgers is viewed around the league.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Adam and Adam here with you and our opportunity to
welcome in prolific writer on the NFL and other things
to the program here today. And that's actually perfect timing
for us to bring him in based on something we're
just talking about. In addition to the subject, he's here
for Ian O'Connor, the author of another book on the NFL,
on one player in particular, Aaron Rodgers. So, Ian, we
(00:21):
welcome you into the show and I want to help
you bring us all out of the darkness here in
a moment. But you just happen to have come in
right after we finished a conversation about the ultimate and
obvious future of Mike McCarthy and Dallas where Jerry Jones
is going to let him go after the season. So
you seem like the perfect person to ask someone who
wrote a book called Belichick The Making of the Greatest
football Coach ever? Is Bill Belichick coaching the Dallas Cowboys
(00:44):
when we're on this date in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I think that's a fairly reasonable possibility. There's just one
problem with that. Now, he does like Jerry Jones, and
good afternoon, gentlemen, thanks for having me on. He does
like Jerry Jones. But I had this converce with Bill
Parcells after he was done coaching the Cowboys. Parcells told
me the one problem he had there was Jerry holding
a press conference outside the locker room after every game.
(01:10):
And I've covered enough Cowboys games to know I've waited
in that scrum for Jerry after a number of games,
and the coach, the head coach is down the hall
in the interview room, and if it's Belichick, he's delivering
one message, which is a non message, and Jerry is
being Jerry. So if Bill has to answer for what
Jerry on Monday for what Jerry is saying on Sunday,
(01:31):
that's going to be an issue. And so I do
think it is possible they can work that out. Maybe
Jerry decides, okay, I'll sit that part of it out.
But I also, at the same time have a hard
time seeing Jerry making that concession because he really seems
to enjoy that part of the job as owner.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well wait until he tells him about his weekly radio show.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah too.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Now, Robert Kraft was not doing those things in New England.
Raft Belichick had an uneasy work relationship. Sometimes Craft would
walk by him in the hallway. Belichick would even say hello.
I think if that happens in Dallas, Jerry would have
a hard time with that one too, So there are
issues to be ironed out. However, if you look at
it like I think Bill will be a head coach
in the NFC East next year with one of three franchises, Dallas,
(02:19):
Philly or the Giants, And it almost depends on who
has the worst season, But to me, that's the most
likely landing spot and we'll see how it plays out.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
It definitely is fascinating. It's the same word I would
use for the subject of the book. You've most recently written,
your sixth book, Out of the Darkness, the Mystery of
Aaron Rodgers. There's so much in there to walk through,
and I'm glad I've had a chance to hear Aaron
actually talk about it a little bit. And you know
the amount of time spent you did, spend time going
through just so many different interviews to get behind this story,
(02:51):
to really get an understanding of everything that goes into this,
beyond the football, beyond just the personal side of what's
going on with he and his family, with so much
more than that, and I still can't help but want
to ask you if Aaron over the course of basically
the time he left Green Bay the time he's been
in New York, I feel like he delivered you this
title Out of the Darkness for the literal reason that
(03:13):
he came out of the darkness and is a Jets
quarterback and didn't get to play the season, and where
I'd start is his season. Nobody really, I think, thinks
about it from his point of view this past year.
We talk about how he wasn't there and so they
move on and he's now there. Everything about what took
place since he's left Green Bay is a mystery. What
was to you the kind of the most fascinating part
(03:36):
for you to discover about Aaron Rodgers and writing this book.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
One thing that really surprised me is that he's really
beloved and admired and respected around the league by his
teammates over twenty years. I found very few instances outside
of Greg Jennings and Jermichael Finley and Green Bay said
a few things publicly over the years, but it's because
he's been really The media coverage of him in the
last what three years has been and it feels like
(04:01):
ninety percent negative, and he has generated a lot of
that himself, so I'm not running away from that. There
are a lot of self inflicted wounds and unforced errors
that have really made him the villain in the NFL.
Like he was considered one of the good guys only
a few years ago with his Kaepernick stance and other
social issues where he was considered to be on the
(04:21):
right side of those issues. And how did he become
this villainous figure in the NFL That fascinated me. Also
the family stranger with the conspiracy theories, and so to me,
he was the most mysterious person in the NFL. I'm
usually drawn to men of mystery like Belichick and Derek Cheeter.
I wrote a book on him as well. Coach k
(04:41):
a little bit less so, but I think that was
the one thing. I talked to a longtime NFL official
who knows hundreds upon hundreds of players in the NFL,
players on every team in the league, and he said
he detested Aaron Rodgers and everything he stood for. But
he said, I have to admit, I've never met a
player who doesn't like him, and I think that's never
(05:03):
really factored into the public discussion of who Aaron is
as a player and as a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, that's interesting because much has been made about well,
he didn't practice enough with his new receivers, or he
didn't practice enough with receivers in Green Bay before he left,
and all that kind of thing. And then another reason
it's such a good day to have you on is that,
as of today, an anonymous coach and the athletics saying, well,
you go back and you watched those first four plays
before he got hurt. He did not look good four plays.
(05:30):
I mean, come on, man, now, if you want to
say he's old, which is what the coach went on
to say, I get that because he is relatively speaking.
But I mean, sitting here in Houston, and we talked
about this last year, could you imagine how much worse
it could have been for the Texans when they played
the Jets if they had Aaron Rodgers as a quarterback
with that defense and what it did to CJ. Strouden
(05:51):
company last year in the Meadowlands.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, it's a good point. I think I do think
he was nervous in that game. I do think he
was trying to make a big play. Aaron Rodgers was
for the fans because that had been such a love
fest that whole summer. And I've been covering sports in
New York for thirty seven, thirty eight years. I had
never seen the city embrace the superstar from another market
like it embraced Aaron Rodgers. And I think early on
(06:14):
because I asked him after the fact, Garrett Wilson was
open on the play. He got hurt and I said,
why didn't you throw the ball? And then he explained
why he didn't. Then ultimately he admitted it was a
mistake because he was open. The play actually worked, he
just didn't throw it. I actually think he wanted to
make a big play down the field early in that
game to thank the fans for everything they had done
(06:34):
for him, not just that night, but all summer, and
he paid the price for it. The good news is,
in your market, you're set for the next fifteen years
at the most important position in the sport by far,
and the Jets aren't. The Jets have to capitalize on
Aaron Rodgers in the next year or too. Is he older, Yeah,
he is. Is he as athletic and mobile as he
used to be? No, definitely not, but his arm and
(06:56):
watching him this summer and last summer still looks like time.
Aaron Rodgers aged twenty nine, he had a joint practice
with the Giants. Granted the Giants are not very good,
but he looked great. He threw four touchdown passes against
that defense and just looked really good. So yeah, those
four plays were shaky. I will give that evaluator that,
(07:19):
but man, he was nervous that night. He was really
trying to make a big play early, and unfortunately it
cost him the season.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Well, interesting the way my co host presented that with
and then you're answering about how the fans were ready
to embrace him and love him and showed him so
much support before he even been on the field. Is
the same vibe going to be in place this season
when now they know we are definitely going to be
awesome as long as Aaron is awesome. So in other words,
if we're not, it's probably because of him.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, it's a good question, Adam. I think that the
Jet fan base this year has been burned at that
fan base. They haven't won it. They haven't been to
a super Bowl since January of nineteen sixty nine. I
always say this and Jets fans don't like it when
I say it. They have not appeared in the super
Bowl since Neil Armstrong stepped on the moon. That's a
long time, man, That is a really long time. And
I think they're very apprehensive to buy all the way
(08:10):
back in this year because they did that last year
and it was like an exploding cigar on Opening Night,
four snaps in. I do the rosters better, that is
a playoff roster they have. The head coach is a
question mark. He hasn't proven to be a good head
coach in his first few years. He's eighteen and thirty three.
That could be something that Aaron's going to have to overcome.
(08:30):
But I have a feeling that they'll have a good year,
that the football gods after last year owe them one.
And when you look at their talent, if they can
get Reddick signed to a contract and get them in,
that'll help their defense. But their defense, even with at
them is still very good. I think they're an eleven
and sixteen when I look at it. But Jets fans
(08:50):
are having a hard time really really totally buying in,
just given the disaster they experienced last year.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
We're talking to Ian O'Connor. His book Out of the
Dark Warkness The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers is out now.
And you know, one of the things that I always
look at just in the NFL, and we all do this,
who's the goat, Who's the best quarterback of all time?
How much do you, personally, having written this book and
spoken to so many people and so doing, think that
(09:17):
that gnaws at a guy who is as competitive and
I guess some would say eccentric as Aaron Rodgers. That
Tom Brady is perceived by so many as the goat
and he is not.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, I think it does probably drive him crazy for
this reason. Obviously, Brady has seven rings and Aaron just
has the one. Everyone around the league agrees Aaron is
more physically talented than Tom Brady. I think it's not
even a debate when you watch him. I've gone back
and obviously watched so much video of Aaron in his prime,
and it's just scary how good he was. And I
(09:48):
think talent wise, the two guys at the top of
the mountain are Mahomes and Rogers, and there's a pretty
big drop off after that. But Brady's the goat because
of the seven rings, and he did have an intangible
fact that maybe Aaron does not have. Particularly in the postseason.
Brady seems to be able to or seem to be
able to will things into existence, and he did it
(10:09):
better than anybody else. So yes, I think that Aaron
also saw in New York an opportunity to go to
the Big Apple and take a big bite out of
it by leading this Loserville franchise to a championship, because
seven to one will end up being seven to two
if he pulls it off, but it will feel more
like seven to four or seven to five. I really
think if he could win a championship for the Jets,
(10:31):
it's going to feel like three rings, and it'll dramatically
improve his legacy and historical standing in the sport. I
think to where people will say, Okay, you're not Brady,
but you're the second best ever. You just hurdled Mahomes,
who now has to hurdle you again. So I think
that he saw that the drought in New York as
a great opportunity and we'll see if he can seize
(10:52):
upon it.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, hopefully, if that last part Mahomes Rogers takes place,
there's an actual head to head matchup that makes it
take place, because obviously Mahomes and the Chiefs are fixtures
in the conference title game, just like the Astros are
fixtures in the American League Championship Series every year until
someone goes in there and pulls them from it, like
Rogers and the Jets are hoping to do with Mahomes
(11:13):
and I think it'd be hard to do, but certainly
is one of the reasons why the AFC is absolutely
king and why we look at the road that C. J. Stroud,
Demiko Ryans, Will Anderson Junior and the Texans want to
take as an extremely difficult one, only made more difficult
by presumably healthy Aaron Rodgers. Ian. We really appreciate it.
Know this book will be fascinating to many people. Again.
(11:35):
Out of the Darkness The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers, the
sixth book from a New York Times bestseller Ian O'Connor,
Ian appreciate the.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Time, Adam and Adam, it was my pleasure. Thanks for
having me on.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You got it, like we said, I no doubt feel
like there are plenty of great beats inside that book,
one in which Aaron Rodgers even himself said, I think
it was fairly and then nicely done by Ian, whom
he talked to about. This not necessarily the overall subject
matter for one on one interviews with him, but he
is a part of it. As this season two weeks away,
(12:05):
Texans and Jets are gonna have to wait until Halloween
for that to come onto our plates.
Adam and Adam here with you and our opportunity to
welcome in prolific writer on the NFL and other things
to the program here today. And that's actually perfect timing
for us to bring him in based on something we're
just talking about. In addition to the subject, he's here
for Ian O'Connor, the author of another book on the NFL,
on one player in particular, Aaron Rodgers. So, Ian, we
(00:21):
welcome you into the show and I want to help
you bring us all out of the darkness here in
a moment. But you just happen to have come in
right after we finished a conversation about the ultimate and
obvious future of Mike McCarthy and Dallas where Jerry Jones
is going to let him go after the season. So
you seem like the perfect person to ask someone who
wrote a book called Belichick The Making of the Greatest
football Coach ever? Is Bill Belichick coaching the Dallas Cowboys
(00:44):
when we're on this date in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I think that's a fairly reasonable possibility. There's just one
problem with that. Now, he does like Jerry Jones, and
good afternoon, gentlemen, thanks for having me on. He does
like Jerry Jones. But I had this converce with Bill
Parcells after he was done coaching the Cowboys. Parcells told
me the one problem he had there was Jerry holding
a press conference outside the locker room after every game.
(01:10):
And I've covered enough Cowboys games to know I've waited
in that scrum for Jerry after a number of games,
and the coach, the head coach is down the hall
in the interview room, and if it's Belichick, he's delivering
one message, which is a non message, and Jerry is
being Jerry. So if Bill has to answer for what
Jerry on Monday for what Jerry is saying on Sunday,
(01:31):
that's going to be an issue. And so I do
think it is possible they can work that out. Maybe
Jerry decides, okay, I'll sit that part of it out.
But I also, at the same time have a hard
time seeing Jerry making that concession because he really seems
to enjoy that part of the job as owner.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Well wait until he tells him about his weekly radio show.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah too.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Now, Robert Kraft was not doing those things in New England.
Raft Belichick had an uneasy work relationship. Sometimes Craft would
walk by him in the hallway. Belichick would even say hello.
I think if that happens in Dallas, Jerry would have
a hard time with that one too, So there are
issues to be ironed out. However, if you look at
it like I think Bill will be a head coach
in the NFC East next year with one of three franchises, Dallas,
(02:19):
Philly or the Giants, And it almost depends on who
has the worst season, But to me, that's the most
likely landing spot and we'll see how it plays out.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
It definitely is fascinating. It's the same word I would
use for the subject of the book. You've most recently written,
your sixth book, Out of the Darkness, the Mystery of
Aaron Rodgers. There's so much in there to walk through,
and I'm glad I've had a chance to hear Aaron
actually talk about it a little bit. And you know
the amount of time spent you did, spend time going
through just so many different interviews to get behind this story,
(02:51):
to really get an understanding of everything that goes into this,
beyond the football, beyond just the personal side of what's
going on with he and his family, with so much
more than that, and I still can't help but want
to ask you if Aaron over the course of basically
the time he left Green Bay the time he's been
in New York, I feel like he delivered you this
title Out of the Darkness for the literal reason that
(03:13):
he came out of the darkness and is a Jets
quarterback and didn't get to play the season, and where
I'd start is his season. Nobody really, I think, thinks
about it from his point of view this past year.
We talk about how he wasn't there and so they
move on and he's now there. Everything about what took
place since he's left Green Bay is a mystery. What
was to you the kind of the most fascinating part
(03:36):
for you to discover about Aaron Rodgers and writing this book.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
One thing that really surprised me is that he's really
beloved and admired and respected around the league by his
teammates over twenty years. I found very few instances outside
of Greg Jennings and Jermichael Finley and Green Bay said
a few things publicly over the years, but it's because
he's been really The media coverage of him in the
last what three years has been and it feels like
(04:01):
ninety percent negative, and he has generated a lot of
that himself, so I'm not running away from that. There
are a lot of self inflicted wounds and unforced errors
that have really made him the villain in the NFL.
Like he was considered one of the good guys only
a few years ago with his Kaepernick stance and other
social issues where he was considered to be on the
(04:21):
right side of those issues. And how did he become
this villainous figure in the NFL That fascinated me. Also
the family stranger with the conspiracy theories, and so to me,
he was the most mysterious person in the NFL. I'm
usually drawn to men of mystery like Belichick and Derek Cheeter.
I wrote a book on him as well. Coach k
(04:41):
a little bit less so, but I think that was
the one thing. I talked to a longtime NFL official
who knows hundreds upon hundreds of players in the NFL,
players on every team in the league, and he said
he detested Aaron Rodgers and everything he stood for. But
he said, I have to admit, I've never met a
player who doesn't like him, and I think that's never
(05:03):
really factored into the public discussion of who Aaron is
as a player and as a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, that's interesting because much has been made about well,
he didn't practice enough with his new receivers, or he
didn't practice enough with receivers in Green Bay before he left,
and all that kind of thing. And then another reason
it's such a good day to have you on is that,
as of today, an anonymous coach and the athletics saying, well,
you go back and you watched those first four plays
before he got hurt. He did not look good four plays.
(05:30):
I mean, come on, man, now, if you want to
say he's old, which is what the coach went on
to say, I get that because he is relatively speaking.
But I mean, sitting here in Houston, and we talked
about this last year, could you imagine how much worse
it could have been for the Texans when they played
the Jets if they had Aaron Rodgers as a quarterback
with that defense and what it did to CJ. Strouden
(05:51):
company last year in the Meadowlands.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, it's a good point. I think I do think
he was nervous in that game. I do think he
was trying to make a big play. Aaron Rodgers was
for the fans because that had been such a love
fest that whole summer. And I've been covering sports in
New York for thirty seven, thirty eight years. I had
never seen the city embrace the superstar from another market
like it embraced Aaron Rodgers. And I think early on
(06:14):
because I asked him after the fact, Garrett Wilson was
open on the play. He got hurt and I said,
why didn't you throw the ball? And then he explained
why he didn't. Then ultimately he admitted it was a
mistake because he was open. The play actually worked, he
just didn't throw it. I actually think he wanted to
make a big play down the field early in that
game to thank the fans for everything they had done
(06:34):
for him, not just that night, but all summer, and
he paid the price for it. The good news is,
in your market, you're set for the next fifteen years
at the most important position in the sport by far,
and the Jets aren't. The Jets have to capitalize on
Aaron Rodgers in the next year or too. Is he older, Yeah,
he is. Is he as athletic and mobile as he
used to be? No, definitely not, but his arm and
(06:56):
watching him this summer and last summer still looks like time.
Aaron Rodgers aged twenty nine, he had a joint practice
with the Giants. Granted the Giants are not very good,
but he looked great. He threw four touchdown passes against
that defense and just looked really good. So yeah, those
four plays were shaky. I will give that evaluator that,
(07:19):
but man, he was nervous that night. He was really
trying to make a big play early, and unfortunately it
cost him the season.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Well, interesting the way my co host presented that with
and then you're answering about how the fans were ready
to embrace him and love him and showed him so
much support before he even been on the field. Is
the same vibe going to be in place this season
when now they know we are definitely going to be
awesome as long as Aaron is awesome. So in other words,
if we're not, it's probably because of him.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, it's a good question, Adam. I think that the
Jet fan base this year has been burned at that
fan base. They haven't won it. They haven't been to
a super Bowl since January of nineteen sixty nine. I
always say this and Jets fans don't like it when
I say it. They have not appeared in the super
Bowl since Neil Armstrong stepped on the moon. That's a
long time, man, That is a really long time. And
I think they're very apprehensive to buy all the way
(08:10):
back in this year because they did that last year
and it was like an exploding cigar on Opening Night,
four snaps in. I do the rosters better, that is
a playoff roster they have. The head coach is a
question mark. He hasn't proven to be a good head
coach in his first few years. He's eighteen and thirty three.
That could be something that Aaron's going to have to overcome.
(08:30):
But I have a feeling that they'll have a good year,
that the football gods after last year owe them one.
And when you look at their talent, if they can
get Reddick signed to a contract and get them in,
that'll help their defense. But their defense, even with at
them is still very good. I think they're an eleven
and sixteen when I look at it. But Jets fans
(08:50):
are having a hard time really really totally buying in,
just given the disaster they experienced last year.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
We're talking to Ian O'Connor. His book Out of the
Dark Warkness The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers is out now.
And you know, one of the things that I always
look at just in the NFL, and we all do this,
who's the goat, Who's the best quarterback of all time?
How much do you, personally, having written this book and
spoken to so many people and so doing, think that
(09:17):
that gnaws at a guy who is as competitive and
I guess some would say eccentric as Aaron Rodgers. That
Tom Brady is perceived by so many as the goat
and he is not.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, I think it does probably drive him crazy for
this reason. Obviously, Brady has seven rings and Aaron just
has the one. Everyone around the league agrees Aaron is
more physically talented than Tom Brady. I think it's not
even a debate when you watch him. I've gone back
and obviously watched so much video of Aaron in his prime,
and it's just scary how good he was. And I
(09:48):
think talent wise, the two guys at the top of
the mountain are Mahomes and Rogers, and there's a pretty
big drop off after that. But Brady's the goat because
of the seven rings, and he did have an intangible
fact that maybe Aaron does not have. Particularly in the postseason.
Brady seems to be able to or seem to be
able to will things into existence, and he did it
(10:09):
better than anybody else. So yes, I think that Aaron
also saw in New York an opportunity to go to
the Big Apple and take a big bite out of
it by leading this Loserville franchise to a championship, because
seven to one will end up being seven to two
if he pulls it off, but it will feel more
like seven to four or seven to five. I really
think if he could win a championship for the Jets,
(10:31):
it's going to feel like three rings, and it'll dramatically
improve his legacy and historical standing in the sport. I
think to where people will say, Okay, you're not Brady,
but you're the second best ever. You just hurdled Mahomes,
who now has to hurdle you again. So I think
that he saw that the drought in New York as
a great opportunity and we'll see if he can seize
(10:52):
upon it.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, hopefully, if that last part Mahomes Rogers takes place,
there's an actual head to head matchup that makes it
take place, because obviously Mahomes and the Chiefs are fixtures
in the conference title game, just like the Astros are
fixtures in the American League Championship Series every year until
someone goes in there and pulls them from it, like
Rogers and the Jets are hoping to do with Mahomes
(11:13):
and I think it'd be hard to do, but certainly
is one of the reasons why the AFC is absolutely
king and why we look at the road that C. J. Stroud,
Demiko Ryans, Will Anderson Junior and the Texans want to
take as an extremely difficult one, only made more difficult
by presumably healthy Aaron Rodgers. Ian. We really appreciate it.
Know this book will be fascinating to many people. Again.
(11:35):
Out of the Darkness The Mystery of Aaron Rodgers, the
sixth book from a New York Times bestseller Ian O'Connor,
Ian appreciate the.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Time, Adam and Adam, it was my pleasure. Thanks for
having me on.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You got it, like we said, I no doubt feel
like there are plenty of great beats inside that book,
one in which Aaron Rodgers even himself said, I think
it was fairly and then nicely done by Ian, whom
he talked to about. This not necessarily the overall subject
matter for one on one interviews with him, but he
is a part of it. As this season two weeks away,
(12:05):
Texans and Jets are gonna have to wait until Halloween
for that to come onto our plates.
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