October 1, 2024 • 27 mins
On this week’s edition of Inside the (Rob) Parker, Rob makes his official 2024 Major League Baseball postseason predictions just hours before the start of the playoffs. Plus, 2x World Series champion Justin Verlander swings by to discuss what makes the Houston Astros such a tough out in the playoffs, what it's like to pitch in the postseason and his case for the Hall of Fame. Later, Keith O'Brien, author of 'Charlie Hustle', checks in to discuss the complicated legacy of the recently deceased MLB Hit King, Pete Rose.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
From the Berkshars to the sound from wherever you live
in MLB America. This is Inside the Parker. You give
us twenty two minutes and we'll give you the scoop
on major League Baseball. Now. Here's Baseball Hall of Fame
voter number seven, Rob Parker.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome into the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm your host, Rob Parker, and man, what a postseason
edition of Inside the Parker we have for you coming up.
Before Justin Burlander was scratched from the postseason roster, we
sat down and talked to JV about his career, about
pitching in the postseason, and of course we'll discuss the
depth of baseball icon Pete Rose, Keith O'Brien and author
(00:47):
who wrote the definitive book called Charlie Hustle to layout
a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Of good information.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
They will do that. It's October, it's the best time
for baseball.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Let's go better to lead it's getting runned and keep
them mind. Rob's hot take on the three biggest stories
in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
All right, before we get to my postseason picks, I
want to take you back to before the season started.
MLB Network MLB Now with Brian Kenny and listen to
my prediction about both last year's World Series teams and
their fortunes for the twenty twenty four season.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
On last year's World Series teams, this is none sense.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Come on, Diamondbacks and Rangers.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
You're saying, what will not nt make the playoffs? Neither
one will make the play not even make the playoffs,
not even make the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I know I'm patting myself on the back, but you
gotta admit that is a hot take. To say that
the two teams that were in the World Series in
twenty twenty three would not NT make the playoffs is
a stepping out there and it took the last.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Day to see, but I got there.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
All right. Here we go my twenty twenty four MLB
postseason picks.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Let's start in the American League.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I'm going with an upset the Tigers over the Astros.
I know everybody wants the Astros to go away, but
it just seems like it just doesn't happen. It keeps
happening over and over. They keep winning the division, making
playoff runs. But I'm going to take the Tigers. Schoolbul
(02:29):
gets it done for the Tigers. Also, the Orioles over
the Royals. Great year for the Royals. They went from
one hundred losses to a postseason birth. Pretty incredible. But
I'm going to take the Orioles. Then I have the
Guardians over the Tigers in the next round, and I
(02:51):
have the Yankees over the Orioles in the next round
as well, and then I have the Yankees over the
Guardians in six games. So that's the American League. In
the National League, Brewers over the Mets. For whatever reason,
the Brewers seem to have some hold over the Mets,
and it's not a great matchup going with the Padres
over the Braves. Padres just have pitching galore. It's unbelievable
(03:16):
that they could trade away Soto and wind up being
better than they were when he was there in San Diego.
But they are the Braves. I give them credit for
even making the playoffs with all the injuries. I just
can't see this team without Ronald Lecuny and some other
players making yet another playoff run. Phillies, I love the
team all year. I got the Phillies over the Brewers,
(03:38):
and then I got the Padres over the Dodgers. I
picked the Dodgers and Yankees when the season started for
the World Series, a rematch of nineteen eighty one. It
would be great for baseball with all the big names
and everything. They don't have the pitching, too many injuries.
I cannot honestly look at them and see them face
the Padres and think they're going to beat the Padres.
(04:00):
Have really good pitching, just playing it simple, and the
postseason is about pitching. And then when we get to
the World Series, I think Aaron Judge finally jumps over
that stamps his ticket as a New York Yankee by
winning a World Series. It's a rematch of the nineteen
ninety nine World Series, the Yankees over the Padres. If
(04:21):
you remember nineteen ninety nine, the Yankees swept the Padres
in four games. Tony Grimm was on that team. But
in this case, I got the Yankees over the Padres
in seven games.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
A classic World Series. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I don't think I'm gonna be as accurate as I
was before the season started with the two teams, but
I like these picks a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Again.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yankees win the World Series over the Padres in seven games.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Here comes the big interview. Listen and learn.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
We're so good all right, Now, let's welcome into the podcast.
Justin Berlin of course right handed for the Houston Ashell. Justin,
thank you for joining the podcast.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
No problem, Thanks for having me, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Let's talk about this team first. Most people wrote it
off the first half of the season, things weren't going well.
What is it about this team, this franchise, the resiliency
that it has.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
You know, I think it starts with the culture of
the leadership. You know, guys like Jose you know, he
shows up every day and just leaves by example. And
that culture when when young guys comes up, it just
kind of I feel like it helps them feel comfortable
and then just breed success.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Uh, We've been very fortunate, uh uh to to have
these young guys step up for us, especially this year.
And I don't think that's a mistake. I think, you know,
the organization carries itself in a certain way, that the
players carry themselves in a certain way. In the second
that young guys step in this locker room, they understand
(06:01):
what's expected of them, and uh, nobody shies away from that.
And I think it's just it's just it just breeds
a winning culture. In general.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I was gonna say some cultures used a lot by people,
but there's something to it. This is an example of
it because there are a lot of changes from the
first time you guys want a World Series, So it
ain't just the same guy.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
No, No, there is definitely something to it, you know.
I think you talked to talk to some guys that
have come over here from other organizations, and you know,
I think culture is just kind of one of those uh,
you know, hot words, but then you try to get
down to describing it, and it's really difficult to put
a finger on on what makes great culture. I think
(06:40):
obviously the people you have is of utmost importance, you know,
in the locker room, but it's also how you carry
yourself on the field, how those leaders handle winning and losing.
You know, you talked about early on in this season,
and uhously we struggled early on with with a lot
(07:01):
of expectations, and I think that's those are times when
young guys look to look to veteran leadership, you know,
how they're handling it, and and there's no panic, you know,
it's just a matter of fact, uh, way of life
that yeah, we're struggling, that is what it is. You know,
we're not winning games, but we expect to win games.
(07:24):
We're not We're not shying away from the position we
put ourselves in. But you know, we we expect to
turn things around, and we will turn things around. And
all of a sudden, when the when the ball starts
rolling in our way and things do start going, it's like,
oh wow, you know, these guys didn't panic and look
at us. Here we go, you know, and then it's, uh,
then you get to you know, you got the wheels
(07:45):
roll in the right direction, and you know, yeah, so
culture hard thing to explain, but we have it.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
You guys, you've won two World Series with this franchise.
Uh does this team feel like a team that has everything,
has enough to make another run and maybe win another one?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I mean absolutely, you know, But I mean I think
when when you're when you're really obviously with PA one
hundred and sixty two games a year, so you see
your strengths, you see your flaws. I've never been on
a team that's like, man, we have no flaws. We're
gonna win it all. You know, it does it doesn't happen,
you know, so are we perfect? No? But no team
(08:24):
is do we have a chance to win at all. Absolutely.
You know, I think some of these young guys stepping
into their own, especially in the starting staff, has just
really been incredible to see. And you know, I think
starting pitching is where it's at, especially in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
No do our guest is justin verlanda joining us on
inside the parker justin Obviously I've saw you when you
broke in started your career in Detroit many moons ago.
I can't believe you're forty one now, and and I'm
not trying to brush you out of baseball, but do
you see again clode to maybe where it's the end?
(09:02):
Have you thought about that and all you've accomplished, because
the resume is pretty impressible.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Yeah, thank you, I mean, yeah, of course, you know
you get forty one. I you know, obviously you know
most of my time is behind me. There's no denying age.
But you know, you try to do everything you can
rage against the dying of the light. And you know, uh,
this has been a tough year for me physically, you know,
(09:30):
but you take everything in stride, you know, you learn
from it. You know, a couple of injuries I had
this year or kind of weird one offs and you know,
when you when you have an injury, I think you
really kind of sit back and you say, okay, like
what caused it? What happened? And I think I learned
a lot through that process this year, and hopefully what
I learned, even though this has been a very tough
(09:51):
season for me, you know, what I've learned hopefully will
help extend my career a little bit. You know how
far that is, I don't know. You know, I just
keep working as hard as I possibly can and seeing
how far this game will let me go.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
And obviously you enjoy it because you wouldn't be here.
I mean, you don't have to be here, right, I mean,
let's be honest. So do you still enjoy coming to
the park, doing the work, putting in the work.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And competing?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah? I mean I love competing, you know, it's my
favorite thing to do. Yes, to answer all the questions,
I do still have the fire. I love coming here.
You know. Having my family at home obviously is a
little bit of a pull away from the game, but
I think it honestly is a good thing. I think
it allows you to put your mind elsewhere at times.
(10:39):
You know, I'm somebody who can get a bit neurotic
and and just overthink. You know. So being able to
go home and spend some time with my wife and
daughter is a nice reprieve from that sometimes. But yeah, man,
that the fires is still churning, and I'm always thinking,
you know, how I can improve, how I can continue
to grow.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Last time, you've done a lot three no hitters, three
saw Young's two world series. You know, so, like I said,
the resumes there what sticks out if I said to you,
pick that moment, that situation, that circumstance in your career
that really, you know you were proud of, or you'd
(11:20):
think back and go, man, I did that.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Yeah, you know, I think a lot of things that
I accomplished after twenty fourteen fifteen really kind of resonate
with me. You know, before that it was kind of
ignorance is bliss. You know, I was just healthy. I
threw a hundred, I had a lot of success, you know,
and then all of a sudden, I find myself having injuries.
(11:45):
I find myself with my arm hurting and my head
I had core surgery, and you know, I just touched
on how you know, I try to learn everything. I
try to learn as much as I can from injuries.
That was a moment that I look at, look back at,
and my mindset was, uh, very weak. You know. I
was afraid it was the end of my career. My
arm was hurting that bad.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
I remember coming out of a game in Pittsburgh after
the first inning and sitting down and crying because I thought,
you know, our manager took me out and I thought
I was gonna go get into Mary and I thought
I was gonna say my shoulder was shot. You know.
So taking those lessons, learning from them, rebuilding myself from
the ground up physically, and then going out and having
(12:28):
success after that, you know, is what I'm most proud of.
A couple of moments stick out. My third no hitter
was pretty incredible, you know, put me in rarefied air.
And I knew it, you know, because I'd come close
to it a few times before, and then you.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Knew when you got it, you were like, and too
many guys have done that.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Absolutely, you know, I had come I'd come really close
to getting the third one multiple times. I mean, uh,
ninth inning, I think twice, eighth inning a few times.
You know, it's like, you know, you just never know
when you that shot again, so to you know, I
was very well well aware of the moment, so when
I got it, it was like, you know, hell yeah, finally,
(13:11):
So that was a big one. And then the two
starts Againt the Yankees against the Yankees in the seventeen
getting the Alcs MVP. You know, those back to back
starts are probably two of my best starts that I've
strung together in a meaningful series, you know, besides probably
like a couple through the Oakland starts in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Are which I remember very vividly.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah, me too. Those those are those are some very
fond memories as well. You know, speaking of the Coliseum, man,
that thing's going away, which is I've got some great
memories there. That place was rowdy, is fun, fun to
pitch it.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
A lot of people who watch now think, oh, nobody
goes there, are you kidding?
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Like seriously, no kidding. That was That was the most
rowdy atmosphere I've ever been in, not even close. So yeah,
I've got some I've got some fun memories of that place.
But yeah, you know, I think to get back to
your point, I think those those couple moments in my
career it just meant that much more because of like
I said, ignorance is blissed early on. It's like I'm invincible.
(14:10):
I'm just you know, I'm on my path. Nothing's gonna
stop me. And all of a sudden you become mortal,
something is stopping you. Holy shit, I'm hurting. Uh, this
is different. Can I make it through this? So then
to be able to make it through and then I
have to success I did after is what I'm most
proud of.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
And I'm gonna say it's not for you to say,
but as a BBW a member, pretty obvious to me.
You go make it to the Hall of Fame. I
know you gotta. I know there's a long way to
road to go and all that, but I mean there's
got to be a sense of you that you know
you've put together a nice enough resume to be worthy
of that. Do you just feel that way?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
I mean, I don't like to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I know what I mean. I'm not saying that you're
saying be in the Hall of Fame, but I mean
just just a resume that you put together.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, I appreciate it. Rob, you know, I think it's
hard to to to it's really hard to take a
step back and look at the full picture when you're
still playing. But you know, I see some of the
some of the numbers, I've seen, some of the names
that I've passed and records and some of the things
I've accomplished. And you know, I'm no idiot, you know
I I But at the same time, you know you can't.
(15:21):
You can't be complacent in this game. The second you do, it'll,
you know, it will knock you on your ass. So
I appreciate all the kind words I see where I'm at,
But you know, by no means do I want to do?
I want to say that I'm done, you know. So
I want to, you know, keep the fire turning, keep
working hard, and you know, every new numbers are you know,
(15:43):
a lofty new goal, you know, and obviously there's one
big one out there that's a little ways away. I
would like to have the chance to achieve that, you know.
So I got but I gotta, I gotta, you know,
get better physically and see where that takes me.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Right justin, thank you so much. I appreciate you.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Rob.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Good to see again.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
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Speaker 6 (16:02):
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(17:01):
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If things get out.
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Speaker 1 (17:59):
When Run was the newspaper columnist, he lived by this motto.
If I'm writing, I'm ripping. Let's bring in a writer
or broadcaster, old or new.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Now let's welcome into the podcast Keith O'Brien.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
He's the author of Charlie Hustle.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
It's really the definitive book on the rise and fall
of baseball legend and notorious gambler of the late Pete
Rose and Keith. Thanks for joining us, and here we
are talking a day after we lost Pete Rose at
age eighty three.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Rob.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
It's crazy and it's sad.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
You know.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
I think my first reaction last night when I got
the news was the same as everyone else.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
You know, I was stunned.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
And that seems like an odd thing to say about
an eighty three year old man who was clearly in
some sort of health decline. But I think I, like
a great many people sort of still thought of Pete
Rose as he was forty years ago or fifty years ago.
It just sort of felt like he was the kind
(19:08):
of person who was going to live forever. And so
I was stunned by the news.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Keith, Here's the thing about Pete Rose and his legacy
is very complicated.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I know, people just want a gloss it over.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Oh he was a great all time hits later being
that's it, that should all that's matter.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It just doesn't work like that in life.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And I got to say, as somebody had covered baseball
for almost forty years and saw his career and he
was a fantastic player. But after that, nothing but mistake
after mistake. Because I truly believe Keith, and you can
stop me. Had he taken responsibility day one, acknowledged that
(19:51):
he made a mistake and that he would go to
gambler's anonymous and do whatever it took to win back
over baseball in the fans, I believe he would been
in a Hall of Fame. I don't believe baseball wanted
its all time hit leader not to be in.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
So you know, I agree with you, and my reporting
agrees with you. You know this isn't my opinion. This
is you know, information based on fact that I gathered
for my book. If Rose is honest in early nineteen
eighty nine, in the earliest meetings that happened concerning his gambling,
(20:30):
first based on rumors and then based on evidence that
have been compiled by the special investigator that Bartie Imadi
had hired, John Dowd. If Pete is honest in those meetings,
the whole narrative is different. And I don't mean to
suggest that Pete would not have been punished. He absolutely
would have been punished, but I don't think and.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Should have and should have been punished because you have
to worry about the integrity of the game.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Absolutely, but I don't think that that punishment would be
the kind of punishment that we would still be sorting
through thirty five years later. And to be more specific
about it, you know, for my book, I interviewed not
just Rose, but men in his inner circle in the
seventies and eighties. These are the guys who placed his
bets on sports with bookies, placed his bets on baseball.
(21:16):
And one of them was a man named Tommy Giosa,
still alive today. And Tommy told me during the reporting
of the book that Rose had an opportunity to take
a different path. He could have embraced his mistakes. He
could have explained that he had a problem, that he
was addicted to gambling, which again my reporting suggests that
(21:38):
he was. And then Rose could have gone Tommy Geosas
said on a tour of sorts, he could have gone
across America speaking at college campuses for free about the
dangers of gambling and the struggle of addiction. And you know, listen,
if he does that sort of thing, you know, instead
(21:59):
of always you know, half apologizing, always you know, mitigating
in his own mind the damage that he did to
himself and others into the game, if he instead fully
reckons with what he did, I believe one hundred percent
that he would have been reinstated sometime in the nineteen nineties.
And this whole story would have been behind us decades ago.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
No doubt one. Keith O'Brien is our guest. He's an author.
He wrote the book Charlie Hustle, which came out this
spring and became an instant New York Times bestseller. And
here's another one, Baseball, and I give baseball credit.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
In twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
You remember they had basically it was the Mount Rushmore
of each baseball team.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I forgot what they called it something for, and you.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Had the fans had to pick four players from each
team that represented their Mount Rushmore kind of thing. And
Baseball allow Pete Rose to come to the All Star
Game in Cincinnati, feeling like they couldn't do it there,
you know, and not have Pete be a part of it.
So there was some softening there. But then Pete, as
(23:10):
you know, Pete Rose, comes out with a book right
after that, after lying for fourteen years saying he didn't
do anything, saying he did it, and then I think
baseball threw its hands up and that was the end.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Yeah. I think the problem is with that particular apology
is not exactly that it came in a book. I
don't begrudge anybody from writing a memoir about their life.
Certainly Pete was trying to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh, I don't have the problem with the book.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
It was the fourteen years of lying, and now you
know what I mean, it looked like he was doing
the apology for profit.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Well, and it was the manner in which the apology
was delivered. It's a if you go back and reread
that particular book now twenty years old, it's shallow, it's
self serving. It half apologizes and then picks a bunch
of fights with issues that he had with John Dowd
or the investigation, which was just silly and ridiculous and unnecessary,
(24:12):
and more importantly, it failed to account for the damage
that his lies had done. I mean well into the
early two thousand, in polls that were conducted, half of
baseball fans believed Pete rose when he was still saying
that he had never bet on baseball. Those lies hurt baseball,
(24:34):
It hurt the Cincinnati Reds, it hurts the city of Cincinnati,
and in my opinion, it certainly hurt the memory of Bartiamadi,
the commissioner who had put his integrity on the line
to investigate a man who had objectively speaking, violated the
cardinal rule of baseball by placing wagers on his own
games and so by failing to recognize that he had
(24:59):
hurt not just himself, but so many others. You know,
Pete really did set himself up for failure here, and
that failure is never being reinstated to the game that
he loves so much.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Last thing we have about a minute here.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I don't believe now that the Hall of Fame and
everybody's just going to run to put Pete Roads in
the Hall of Fame now that he's passed on. Still
all of his memorabilia and things that he did during
his career are still in the Hall of Fame. I
don't believe a plaque is going to go into the
Hall of Fame now, even after death.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
You know, for years people have speculated that it would
only be after Pete's death that he would be reinstated,
placed on the ballot, and then potentially voted in. You know,
I guess to your point, Rob, we're about to find
out if that's going to happen. But I don't think
it's something that's going to happen this week. It's not
going to happen this fall. You know, Major League Baseball
(25:57):
doesn't want the focus being on Pete Rose in a
time when the league is now partnering with legalized gambling platforms.
But I do think in the months and years ahead,
as more gambling scandals take place in sports, we will
possibly look differently on this scandal involving Pete Rose.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Pete, thank you so much, my goodness, to so much insight.
Keith O'Brien, Go pick up his book. I mean probably
want to read it to get more in depth on
Pete Rose in the passing of such a great ballplayer,
but of notorious gambler who you know, soiled his own legacy,
(26:44):
and I really believe that Pete could have cleaned it
up way before we got to this point.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
It's so sad. Keith, again, thank you so much. We
appreciate you.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Rob.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
In the words of New York TV legend the Lady
Bill Jorgensen, thanking you for your time this time until
next time.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Rob Parker out. He can't get it. This could be
an inside of Parker.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
See you next week, same bat time, same batt station.
From the Berkshars to the sound from wherever you live
in MLB America. This is Inside the Parker. You give
us twenty two minutes and we'll give you the scoop
on major League Baseball. Now. Here's Baseball Hall of Fame
voter number seven, Rob Parker.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome into the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm your host, Rob Parker, and man, what a postseason
edition of Inside the Parker we have for you coming up.
Before Justin Burlander was scratched from the postseason roster, we
sat down and talked to JV about his career, about
pitching in the postseason, and of course we'll discuss the
depth of baseball icon Pete Rose, Keith O'Brien and author
(00:47):
who wrote the definitive book called Charlie Hustle to layout
a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Of good information.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
They will do that. It's October, it's the best time
for baseball.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Let's go better to lead it's getting runned and keep
them mind. Rob's hot take on the three biggest stories
in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
All right, before we get to my postseason picks, I
want to take you back to before the season started.
MLB Network MLB Now with Brian Kenny and listen to
my prediction about both last year's World Series teams and
their fortunes for the twenty twenty four season.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
On last year's World Series teams, this is none sense.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Come on, Diamondbacks and Rangers.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
You're saying, what will not nt make the playoffs? Neither
one will make the play not even make the playoffs,
not even make the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I know I'm patting myself on the back, but you
gotta admit that is a hot take. To say that
the two teams that were in the World Series in
twenty twenty three would not NT make the playoffs is
a stepping out there and it took the last.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Day to see, but I got there.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
All right. Here we go my twenty twenty four MLB
postseason picks.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Let's start in the American League.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I'm going with an upset the Tigers over the Astros.
I know everybody wants the Astros to go away, but
it just seems like it just doesn't happen. It keeps
happening over and over. They keep winning the division, making
playoff runs. But I'm going to take the Tigers. Schoolbul
(02:29):
gets it done for the Tigers. Also, the Orioles over
the Royals. Great year for the Royals. They went from
one hundred losses to a postseason birth. Pretty incredible. But
I'm going to take the Orioles. Then I have the
Guardians over the Tigers in the next round, and I
(02:51):
have the Yankees over the Orioles in the next round
as well, and then I have the Yankees over the
Guardians in six games. So that's the American League. In
the National League, Brewers over the Mets. For whatever reason,
the Brewers seem to have some hold over the Mets,
and it's not a great matchup going with the Padres
over the Braves. Padres just have pitching galore. It's unbelievable
(03:16):
that they could trade away Soto and wind up being
better than they were when he was there in San Diego.
But they are the Braves. I give them credit for
even making the playoffs with all the injuries. I just
can't see this team without Ronald Lecuny and some other
players making yet another playoff run. Phillies, I love the
team all year. I got the Phillies over the Brewers,
(03:38):
and then I got the Padres over the Dodgers. I
picked the Dodgers and Yankees when the season started for
the World Series, a rematch of nineteen eighty one. It
would be great for baseball with all the big names
and everything. They don't have the pitching, too many injuries.
I cannot honestly look at them and see them face
the Padres and think they're going to beat the Padres.
(04:00):
Have really good pitching, just playing it simple, and the
postseason is about pitching. And then when we get to
the World Series, I think Aaron Judge finally jumps over
that stamps his ticket as a New York Yankee by
winning a World Series. It's a rematch of the nineteen
ninety nine World Series, the Yankees over the Padres. If
(04:21):
you remember nineteen ninety nine, the Yankees swept the Padres
in four games. Tony Grimm was on that team. But
in this case, I got the Yankees over the Padres
in seven games.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
A classic World Series. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I don't think I'm gonna be as accurate as I
was before the season started with the two teams, but
I like these picks a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Again.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yankees win the World Series over the Padres in seven games.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Here comes the big interview. Listen and learn.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
We're so good all right, Now, let's welcome into the podcast.
Justin Berlin of course right handed for the Houston Ashell. Justin,
thank you for joining the podcast.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
No problem, Thanks for having me, no doubt.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Let's talk about this team first. Most people wrote it
off the first half of the season, things weren't going well.
What is it about this team, this franchise, the resiliency
that it has.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
You know, I think it starts with the culture of
the leadership. You know, guys like Jose you know, he
shows up every day and just leaves by example. And
that culture when when young guys comes up, it just
kind of I feel like it helps them feel comfortable
and then just breed success.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Uh, We've been very fortunate, uh uh to to have
these young guys step up for us, especially this year.
And I don't think that's a mistake. I think, you know,
the organization carries itself in a certain way, that the
players carry themselves in a certain way. In the second
that young guys step in this locker room, they understand
(06:01):
what's expected of them, and uh, nobody shies away from that.
And I think it's just it's just it just breeds
a winning culture. In general.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I was gonna say some cultures used a lot by people,
but there's something to it. This is an example of
it because there are a lot of changes from the
first time you guys want a World Series, So it
ain't just the same guy.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
No, No, there is definitely something to it, you know.
I think you talked to talk to some guys that
have come over here from other organizations, and you know,
I think culture is just kind of one of those uh,
you know, hot words, but then you try to get
down to describing it, and it's really difficult to put
a finger on on what makes great culture. I think
(06:40):
obviously the people you have is of utmost importance, you know,
in the locker room, but it's also how you carry
yourself on the field, how those leaders handle winning and losing.
You know, you talked about early on in this season,
and uhously we struggled early on with with a lot
(07:01):
of expectations, and I think that's those are times when
young guys look to look to veteran leadership, you know,
how they're handling it, and and there's no panic, you know,
it's just a matter of fact, uh, way of life
that yeah, we're struggling, that is what it is. You know,
we're not winning games, but we expect to win games.
(07:24):
We're not We're not shying away from the position we
put ourselves in. But you know, we we expect to
turn things around, and we will turn things around. And
all of a sudden, when the when the ball starts
rolling in our way and things do start going, it's like,
oh wow, you know, these guys didn't panic and look
at us. Here we go, you know, and then it's, uh,
then you get to you know, you got the wheels
(07:45):
roll in the right direction, and you know, yeah, so
culture hard thing to explain, but we have it.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
You guys, you've won two World Series with this franchise.
Uh does this team feel like a team that has everything,
has enough to make another run and maybe win another one?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I mean absolutely, you know, But I mean I think
when when you're when you're really obviously with PA one
hundred and sixty two games a year, so you see
your strengths, you see your flaws. I've never been on
a team that's like, man, we have no flaws. We're
gonna win it all. You know, it does it doesn't happen,
you know, so are we perfect? No? But no team
(08:24):
is do we have a chance to win at all. Absolutely.
You know, I think some of these young guys stepping
into their own, especially in the starting staff, has just
really been incredible to see. And you know, I think
starting pitching is where it's at, especially in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
No do our guest is justin verlanda joining us on
inside the parker justin Obviously I've saw you when you
broke in started your career in Detroit many moons ago.
I can't believe you're forty one now, and and I'm
not trying to brush you out of baseball, but do
you see again clode to maybe where it's the end?
(09:02):
Have you thought about that and all you've accomplished, because
the resume is pretty impressible.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Yeah, thank you, I mean, yeah, of course, you know
you get forty one. I you know, obviously you know
most of my time is behind me. There's no denying age.
But you know, you try to do everything you can
rage against the dying of the light. And you know, uh,
this has been a tough year for me physically, you know,
(09:30):
but you take everything in stride, you know, you learn
from it. You know, a couple of injuries I had
this year or kind of weird one offs and you know,
when you when you have an injury, I think you
really kind of sit back and you say, okay, like
what caused it? What happened? And I think I learned
a lot through that process this year, and hopefully what
I learned, even though this has been a very tough
(09:51):
season for me, you know, what I've learned hopefully will
help extend my career a little bit. You know how
far that is, I don't know. You know, I just
keep working as hard as I possibly can and seeing
how far this game will let me go.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
And obviously you enjoy it because you wouldn't be here.
I mean, you don't have to be here, right, I mean,
let's be honest. So do you still enjoy coming to
the park, doing the work, putting in the work.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And competing?
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah? I mean I love competing, you know, it's my
favorite thing to do. Yes, to answer all the questions,
I do still have the fire. I love coming here.
You know. Having my family at home obviously is a
little bit of a pull away from the game, but
I think it honestly is a good thing. I think
it allows you to put your mind elsewhere at times.
(10:39):
You know, I'm somebody who can get a bit neurotic
and and just overthink. You know. So being able to
go home and spend some time with my wife and
daughter is a nice reprieve from that sometimes. But yeah, man,
that the fires is still churning, and I'm always thinking,
you know, how I can improve, how I can continue
to grow.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Last time, you've done a lot three no hitters, three
saw Young's two world series. You know, so, like I said,
the resumes there what sticks out if I said to you,
pick that moment, that situation, that circumstance in your career
that really, you know you were proud of, or you'd
(11:20):
think back and go, man, I did that.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Yeah, you know, I think a lot of things that
I accomplished after twenty fourteen fifteen really kind of resonate
with me. You know, before that it was kind of
ignorance is bliss. You know, I was just healthy. I
threw a hundred, I had a lot of success, you know,
and then all of a sudden, I find myself having injuries.
(11:45):
I find myself with my arm hurting and my head
I had core surgery, and you know, I just touched
on how you know, I try to learn everything. I
try to learn as much as I can from injuries.
That was a moment that I look at, look back at,
and my mindset was, uh, very weak. You know. I
was afraid it was the end of my career. My
arm was hurting that bad.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
I remember coming out of a game in Pittsburgh after
the first inning and sitting down and crying because I thought,
you know, our manager took me out and I thought
I was gonna go get into Mary and I thought
I was gonna say my shoulder was shot. You know.
So taking those lessons, learning from them, rebuilding myself from
the ground up physically, and then going out and having
(12:28):
success after that, you know, is what I'm most proud of.
A couple of moments stick out. My third no hitter
was pretty incredible, you know, put me in rarefied air.
And I knew it, you know, because I'd come close
to it a few times before, and then you.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Knew when you got it, you were like, and too
many guys have done that.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Absolutely, you know, I had come I'd come really close
to getting the third one multiple times. I mean, uh,
ninth inning, I think twice, eighth inning a few times.
You know, it's like, you know, you just never know
when you that shot again, so to you know, I
was very well well aware of the moment, so when
I got it, it was like, you know, hell yeah, finally,
(13:11):
So that was a big one. And then the two
starts Againt the Yankees against the Yankees in the seventeen
getting the Alcs MVP. You know, those back to back
starts are probably two of my best starts that I've
strung together in a meaningful series, you know, besides probably
like a couple through the Oakland starts in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Are which I remember very vividly.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah, me too. Those those are those are some very
fond memories as well. You know, speaking of the Coliseum, man,
that thing's going away, which is I've got some great
memories there. That place was rowdy, is fun, fun to
pitch it.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
A lot of people who watch now think, oh, nobody
goes there, are you kidding?
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Like seriously, no kidding. That was That was the most
rowdy atmosphere I've ever been in, not even close. So yeah,
I've got some I've got some fun memories of that place.
But yeah, you know, I think to get back to
your point, I think those those couple moments in my
career it just meant that much more because of like
I said, ignorance is blissed early on. It's like I'm invincible.
(14:10):
I'm just you know, I'm on my path. Nothing's gonna
stop me. And all of a sudden you become mortal,
something is stopping you. Holy shit, I'm hurting. Uh, this
is different. Can I make it through this? So then
to be able to make it through and then I
have to success I did after is what I'm most
proud of.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
And I'm gonna say it's not for you to say,
but as a BBW a member, pretty obvious to me.
You go make it to the Hall of Fame. I
know you gotta. I know there's a long way to
road to go and all that, but I mean there's
got to be a sense of you that you know
you've put together a nice enough resume to be worthy
of that. Do you just feel that way?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
I mean, I don't like to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I know what I mean. I'm not saying that you're
saying be in the Hall of Fame, but I mean
just just a resume that you put together.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, I appreciate it. Rob, you know, I think it's
hard to to to it's really hard to take a
step back and look at the full picture when you're
still playing. But you know, I see some of the
some of the numbers, I've seen, some of the names
that I've passed and records and some of the things
I've accomplished. And you know, I'm no idiot, you know
I I But at the same time, you know you can't.
(15:21):
You can't be complacent in this game. The second you do, it'll,
you know, it will knock you on your ass. So
I appreciate all the kind words I see where I'm at,
But you know, by no means do I want to do?
I want to say that I'm done, you know. So
I want to, you know, keep the fire turning, keep
working hard, and you know, every new numbers are you know,
(15:43):
a lofty new goal, you know, and obviously there's one
big one out there that's a little ways away. I
would like to have the chance to achieve that, you know.
So I got but I gotta, I gotta, you know,
get better physically and see where that takes me.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Right justin, thank you so much. I appreciate you.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Rob.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Good to see again.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It's the Gambler here.
Speaker 6 (16:02):
Vice president of Operations for mlbbro dot Com and executive
producer of the MLB Bro Show podcast The Mixtape.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Every Friday. You heard that right.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
Every Friday, we bring you the best from the world
of Black and Brown baseball. We cover the seven point
two percent of melanated Major leaguers from soup to nuts,
but with our own cultural flair and unique voice, will
take you on a ride reflecting on the accomplishment, clutch moments,
and contributions to culture that the Bros continue to breathe
(16:38):
into baseball.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
From Mookie Wilson to Mookie.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Betts, Doctor k to Doctor Styx, from Bro Bombs to
stolen bases to Black Aces. We're live at the ballparks
and also bringing you segments like Classic Hits with David Gruff,
the Black Ace Report, the Rundown, the Walk Off, and
Going Deep just name a few of the segments that
(17:01):
truly capture the voice of black baseball.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
If things get out.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
Of hand, is the Boss Rob Parker, He's kicking up dust.
We will gladly pay you on Tuesday from an MLB
Bro doubleheader today. Remember, the heart of the game lies
in the diversity of the game and the spirit of
black baseball that dates back to the negro leagues. I
the Gambler, your friendly neighborhood diamond checker, making sure that
(17:27):
you stay on top of the game and in touch
with the soul of MLB. Fuckle up for a wild
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(17:49):
MLB bro Show podcast the Mixtape on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
When Run was the newspaper columnist, he lived by this motto.
If I'm writing, I'm ripping. Let's bring in a writer
or broadcaster, old or new.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Now let's welcome into the podcast Keith O'Brien.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
He's the author of Charlie Hustle.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
It's really the definitive book on the rise and fall
of baseball legend and notorious gambler of the late Pete
Rose and Keith. Thanks for joining us, and here we
are talking a day after we lost Pete Rose at
age eighty three.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Rob.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
It's crazy and it's sad.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
You know.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
I think my first reaction last night when I got
the news was the same as everyone else.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
You know, I was stunned.
Speaker 5 (18:46):
And that seems like an odd thing to say about
an eighty three year old man who was clearly in
some sort of health decline. But I think I, like
a great many people sort of still thought of Pete
Rose as he was forty years ago or fifty years ago.
It just sort of felt like he was the kind
(19:08):
of person who was going to live forever. And so
I was stunned by the news.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Keith, Here's the thing about Pete Rose and his legacy
is very complicated.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I know, people just want a gloss it over.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Oh he was a great all time hits later being
that's it, that should all that's matter.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It just doesn't work like that in life.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
And I got to say, as somebody had covered baseball
for almost forty years and saw his career and he
was a fantastic player. But after that, nothing but mistake
after mistake. Because I truly believe Keith, and you can
stop me. Had he taken responsibility day one, acknowledged that
(19:51):
he made a mistake and that he would go to
gambler's anonymous and do whatever it took to win back
over baseball in the fans, I believe he would been
in a Hall of Fame. I don't believe baseball wanted
its all time hit leader not to be in.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
So you know, I agree with you, and my reporting
agrees with you. You know this isn't my opinion. This
is you know, information based on fact that I gathered
for my book. If Rose is honest in early nineteen
eighty nine, in the earliest meetings that happened concerning his gambling,
(20:30):
first based on rumors and then based on evidence that
have been compiled by the special investigator that Bartie Imadi
had hired, John Dowd. If Pete is honest in those meetings,
the whole narrative is different. And I don't mean to
suggest that Pete would not have been punished. He absolutely
would have been punished, but I don't think and.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Should have and should have been punished because you have
to worry about the integrity of the game.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Absolutely, but I don't think that that punishment would be
the kind of punishment that we would still be sorting
through thirty five years later. And to be more specific
about it, you know, for my book, I interviewed not
just Rose, but men in his inner circle in the
seventies and eighties. These are the guys who placed his
bets on sports with bookies, placed his bets on baseball.
(21:16):
And one of them was a man named Tommy Giosa,
still alive today. And Tommy told me during the reporting
of the book that Rose had an opportunity to take
a different path. He could have embraced his mistakes. He
could have explained that he had a problem, that he
was addicted to gambling, which again my reporting suggests that
(21:38):
he was. And then Rose could have gone Tommy Geosas
said on a tour of sorts, he could have gone
across America speaking at college campuses for free about the
dangers of gambling and the struggle of addiction. And you know, listen,
if he does that sort of thing, you know, instead
(21:59):
of always you know, half apologizing, always you know, mitigating
in his own mind the damage that he did to
himself and others into the game, if he instead fully
reckons with what he did, I believe one hundred percent
that he would have been reinstated sometime in the nineteen nineties.
And this whole story would have been behind us decades ago.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
No doubt one. Keith O'Brien is our guest. He's an author.
He wrote the book Charlie Hustle, which came out this
spring and became an instant New York Times bestseller. And
here's another one, Baseball, and I give baseball credit.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
In twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
You remember they had basically it was the Mount Rushmore
of each baseball team.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I forgot what they called it something for, and you.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Had the fans had to pick four players from each
team that represented their Mount Rushmore kind of thing. And
Baseball allow Pete Rose to come to the All Star
Game in Cincinnati, feeling like they couldn't do it there,
you know, and not have Pete be a part of it.
So there was some softening there. But then Pete, as
(23:10):
you know, Pete Rose, comes out with a book right
after that, after lying for fourteen years saying he didn't
do anything, saying he did it, and then I think
baseball threw its hands up and that was the end.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Yeah. I think the problem is with that particular apology
is not exactly that it came in a book. I
don't begrudge anybody from writing a memoir about their life.
Certainly Pete was trying to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh, I don't have the problem with the book.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
It was the fourteen years of lying, and now you
know what I mean, it looked like he was doing
the apology for profit.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Well, and it was the manner in which the apology
was delivered. It's a if you go back and reread
that particular book now twenty years old, it's shallow, it's
self serving. It half apologizes and then picks a bunch
of fights with issues that he had with John Dowd
or the investigation, which was just silly and ridiculous and unnecessary,
(24:12):
and more importantly, it failed to account for the damage
that his lies had done. I mean well into the
early two thousand, in polls that were conducted, half of
baseball fans believed Pete rose when he was still saying
that he had never bet on baseball. Those lies hurt baseball,
(24:34):
It hurt the Cincinnati Reds, it hurts the city of Cincinnati,
and in my opinion, it certainly hurt the memory of Bartiamadi,
the commissioner who had put his integrity on the line
to investigate a man who had objectively speaking, violated the
cardinal rule of baseball by placing wagers on his own
games and so by failing to recognize that he had
(24:59):
hurt not just himself, but so many others. You know,
Pete really did set himself up for failure here, and
that failure is never being reinstated to the game that
he loves so much.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Last thing we have about a minute here.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I don't believe now that the Hall of Fame and
everybody's just going to run to put Pete Roads in
the Hall of Fame now that he's passed on. Still
all of his memorabilia and things that he did during
his career are still in the Hall of Fame. I
don't believe a plaque is going to go into the
Hall of Fame now, even after death.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
You know, for years people have speculated that it would
only be after Pete's death that he would be reinstated,
placed on the ballot, and then potentially voted in. You know,
I guess to your point, Rob, we're about to find
out if that's going to happen. But I don't think
it's something that's going to happen this week. It's not
going to happen this fall. You know, Major League Baseball
(25:57):
doesn't want the focus being on Pete Rose in a
time when the league is now partnering with legalized gambling platforms.
But I do think in the months and years ahead,
as more gambling scandals take place in sports, we will
possibly look differently on this scandal involving Pete Rose.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Pete, thank you so much, my goodness, to so much insight.
Keith O'Brien, Go pick up his book. I mean probably
want to read it to get more in depth on
Pete Rose in the passing of such a great ballplayer,
but of notorious gambler who you know, soiled his own legacy,
(26:44):
and I really believe that Pete could have cleaned it
up way before we got to this point.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
It's so sad. Keith, again, thank you so much. We
appreciate you.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Rob.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
In the words of New York TV legend the Lady
Bill Jorgensen, thanking you for your time this time until
next time.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Rob Parker out. He can't get it. This could be
an inside of Parker.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
See you next week, same bat time, same batt station.
Host
Rob Parker
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