October 26, 2017 • 44 mins
Over a decade ago, Rose was kicked out of her college sorority. “You know what you did,” was the only explanation she was ever given. All these years later, Rose still wants to know what it is she did.
Credits
Heavyweight is hosted and produced by Jonathan Goldstein.
This episode was also produced by Kalila Holt. The senior producer is Kaitlin Roberts.
Editing by Jorge Just, Alex Blumberg, and Wendy Dorr.
Special thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, Misha Glouberman, and Jackie Cohen.
The show was mixed by Kate Bilinski.
Music by Christine Fellows and John K Samson, with additional music by Blue Dot Sessions, Michael Charles Smith, Hew Time, and Keen Collective. Our theme song is by The Weakerthans courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by Haley Shaw.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not? No,
I think.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Didn't you try to Facebook friend me?
Speaker 4 (00:12):
I don't think I responded.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even
friend me?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows
we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's
friend each other at the exact same.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Time, get from each other. Because I have to go
to work right now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Can't you take the computer with you.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm stepping out the door now and I have to
get on my.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Bicycle bounce on the handlebars. And then you could we
could we could facebook chat. Don't you think that's a
good idea? If, like, if we both friend each other
at the same time? No, why not?
Speaker 5 (00:46):
One?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful
from Dimlin. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's
episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had their
(01:21):
first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser known
fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked out
their original drummer Pete Best. The Beatles had their manager
do the job. The lads just don't want you in
the band anymore, he said.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
No.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged.
Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't
funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a
long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends
had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family.
Oh bla de oh bla dah, life went on. That's
(02:01):
what happens. People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs,
and eventually they stop searching for the reason why. Most
people do anyway, So.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen.
I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two
thousand and one.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
This is Rose and the school she was entering was
the University of North Florida.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
And it's like a beachy community. I was like a
cool surfer chick. I dreve like an old Volvo that
was covered in like band stickers.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Rose was a rebel, and if all the teen movies
I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about
campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular
kids and at the University of North Florida, nobody was
more popular than the sorority girls.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Will you like walk through school and they're set up
there and they're like along the sidewalks and.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
They're like, are you interested in enjoying a sorority?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And I would just like blow by on my skateboard
and be like no.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
With with with sorority life.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities
and like the cool kids and their pop callers, like,
I didn't think that was for me. So the summer
after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I
start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm
(03:24):
making friends with all these people in the Greek community
and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're
not weird. I started to dress like them, I started
to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And the fall of.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
My junior year, I rushed and I got a bid
from Alpha Kai and I joined.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Sorry, the name of the sorority.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Was, It's called Alpha Kai Omega.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Alpha Kai Omega, and we were the Theta Sigma chapter
Stata Sigma.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Chapter theta with the thh.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So it was the Theta Sigma chapter of Alpha ky Omega,
and it was at unf sororities.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It was a new and exciting world with such a
rich history. It turns out that Condolei's a Rice Enron Whistleblow,
or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on
Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Chi and had
taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened
avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a
(04:33):
part of Alpha chi Omega Theta Sigma chapter.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, we wear pearls,
we know our manners.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
You know, like that, did they use the word classy.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You're not being classy?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
And they had like all these weird acronyms, like if
someone came up to you and whispered in your your pearl,
it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl, please engage
in acts resembling a lady.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So if someone says pearl in your that would mean
you would.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Begin to It would mean like, let's say I'm doing
a keg stand at a party and another sister is there.
Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant,
because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead,
she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper
in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh,
you're right, thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters,
building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to
toe in scarlet red and olive green, the Alpha Kyomega colors.
And while she'd never seen herself being cut out for
all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing was it
actually made her really happy.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I
got really into it and just walking around school now
all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody
knows you, and now you're in on the in side
jokes like I felt like I belonged, Like I went
from being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the
bubbly participant.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips,
watching The Bachelor, one weekend, they all ran a campus
charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss and.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired after
that five K and I'm having a lot of trouble
sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was
feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went
to see a doctor.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
And I said, could you take a look at my neck, Like,
I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who
was treating me that day just like looked at me
in horror and.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Was like, you have to go to radiation right now.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And I was like, I have to make an appointment,
and she was like, no, I'm calling the second floor
and you're going to go get a CT scan right now.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
So it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
They called it nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge,
pronounced lymph notes all over my body. You could take
one look at me and it looked like my neck
and chest were just full of golf balls, like something
was wrong. By the time we started testing and staging,
I mean I was a stage three. This is like
big cake cancer. This is like shave your head, Rose,
like you've got real cancer. So I think around May
(07:25):
I started chemo.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars.
Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The
one bright note throughout was the support she got from
her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville
Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the
quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha
(07:47):
Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to
Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge
of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she
kept up with her work.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And new girls are coming through and they have to
decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha
Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell.
Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority
with the cancer girl and we're saving her life.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And that was something that they led with, that was
actually something that was made explicit.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Oh, I got up there with my bald head and
gave a speech and cried every time about how my
sisters were saving my life.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Rose was lucky. By the spring of her senior year,
her cancer went into remission for the first time in
more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I just had a lot of fun that semester. My
hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my
energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person,
and like, now I'm not just going to a party
to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of
the house, like now I want a party, Like now
I want to have fun.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
So I did. I felt like I deserved it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Then one night, after being cancer free for five months,
Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which I met
in an old auditorium on campus.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose,
can you stay after We need to talk to you.
So they clear everybody out and now it's just like
five or six women and me, and they're like, all right, Rose,
like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to
ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah,
(09:25):
we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I
thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like,
you're asking me to step down? As VP recruitment, like
the new girls love me, I'm great with the new girls.
Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no,
we want you to resign from the organization. We want
(09:47):
you to resign from Alpha Kai.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And I lost it.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up
with you, and like you get that cold feeling in
your chest and you know that someone's about to look
at you and say like this isn't Yeah. It was
like that times one hundred, Like now a hundred of
my friends were all breaking up with me in a
very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming, and
(10:15):
I just kept.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Saying, why, what do you mean you want me out?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And this is when they just all of a sudden,
it was like these women I'd known for years, they
were strangers and there was no compassion, there was no kindness.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
It was you know what you did, Rose, you know
what you did?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And I was like, no, no, you have to tell
me what did I do? Did something bad happen?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Rose?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
We're not getting into it. You know what you did?
And I'm just like, no, no, I don't know what
I did.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And at this point I am so distraught. I think
I'm like hyperventilating and crying. I think I'm ugly crying.
I think, like snaw, it's just bubbling out of my
nose and I don't have the wherewithal to demand answers.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And I'm like, so that's it, We're done here.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You want me out and they're like, yeah, as of tonight,
you are no longer affiliated with Alpha ky Omega.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council,
She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and
no one would tell.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Her why No one has ever told me?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
And did you ever pursue it further?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
God, yes, for years?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Like, hey guys, it's been five years since we graduated college.
I know this is kind of weird, but I still
think about it. Does anyone want to tell me? I've
done the thing on Facebook where I've made the big
Facebook post where I'm like, all right, does everyone remember
when Rose got kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you
or anyone you know has any information, like I'm still
dying to know, And then like dozens of my friends
(11:54):
are like, oh, I'm following this post.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And still to this day, no answers like you're racking
your brain. I'm like, did I get blackout drunk and
sleep with someone's boyfriend?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Did you ever see any other of the sisters get
kicked out?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
No?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
No?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And that's the thing, is like, Okay, let's not mince
words here, like was Rosea party girl?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Were there girls who were way worse than me?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
And did they get kicked out? Never?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes,
does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And would Jonathan
quit before solving it? Never. Rose's college memories have all
been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, but
her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties.
(12:42):
They had to be past the college drama. So after
Rose and I part, I begin reaching out to them
for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. Trish,
I've been trying to get in touch Anita. I was
trying to reach you.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Zoe.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
This is Jonathan goldste we'll speak soon, Claire. I phone
them in their cars.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Hi, Hey, I've got my daughter walking into BALLEI class short.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
No, of course, I phone them in their homes. Do
you have a minute to.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Speak, I do, I have a toddler to say, you.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, Hi on.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Sugar, because she just pole the bag of jelly being
But yes, no, I cannot pick you up. I'm not
picking you up.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
No, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
But not one of Rose's ex sorority sisters can tell
me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember,
it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why.
There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but
only a handful had been in the room when Rose
was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber.
(13:53):
When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to
call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber,
this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some
time ago. Hello. I call back, and Amber apologizes for
our being disconnected, but when I ask her why Rose
(14:14):
was kicked out again, the line goes dead. This is
odd otter Still is a conversation with an Alpha Chi
sister a year younger than Rose. She says she inherited
all the disciplinary documents from Rose's year, but that one
file was missing, the one detailing why Rose had been
(14:35):
kicked out. Things were beginning to feel kolludy. Hello, oh
hey Rose, Hi. I call Rose to update her, but
(14:55):
it seems she's already gotten wind of my doings.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So I think you must have been reaching out to
a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy
snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly a consensus was reached
shut this guy out.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Just the way that some of the girls were replying
in the thread. It just felt like twelve years.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Hadn't even passed And how do you mean?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place,
and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like
mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this
whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond.
And then everyone just started to follow in line and
be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Gonna call them, Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have
to go over their heads.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
How Alpha Kaya men a headquarters this is season.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick
building at the end of a long tree lined cool
de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ki
Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out,
it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan,
the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Okay, yes, I'm sure there are.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that
comes up sometimes where people want to know why they
might have been kicked out of a sorority or is
this uncommon?
Speaker 4 (16:39):
I would think most people would know why.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, what happened in her case? This is a woman
by the name of Rose Shapiro. And how do you
spell her last name Shapiro? I think it must be
spelled s h A.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
S H.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
No sha h p s and Peter I R O H.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Are you okay?
Speaker 6 (17:18):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
I did sign her in here?
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Does it?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Does it say anything with alongside her name?
Speaker 4 (17:30):
I'm just looking at a status So you're.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
So then there is some information alongside her name.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything
about this member. I wouldn't know her at all. And
you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
What if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would
she be able to find out the information?
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I would think so sure.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Mm hm, well we'll just have to see. After the break,
a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Hey Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It going good? You ready to get some answers? I
tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and
we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll
call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
Okay, I'm going to call right now, Alpha coy O
Mega Headquarters.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
This is the season.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Hi, Susan, my name is Rose.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And lying on my stomach on the floor of the
darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular
girl as I play with the phone cord and silently
nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of
Alpha coy O Mega, the Theta Sigma chapter.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Okay, and what's your name is Rose Shapiro? Okay, all right,
I'm gonna give you the Mandy tar water.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Okay, before you transfer. I did have just one more
question for you. Is there any way that you can
just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as
a member in good standing or as a former member?
Is there even is there anyone?
Speaker 8 (19:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
I think it's I think it says that you're not
in good stand. I wish I could help you, but
I don't know that. Let me see here. Mendy is
out this afternoon, but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we
leave a message with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you
should do that.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When
she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again.
Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving
voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the
pan while listening in for emotional support. Okay, you're on Rose.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
At the tone, please record your message.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
My name is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off
to other people at headquarters. Someone named Gina.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Let's try Gina hold on.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
Then someone named Eliza Eliza Payne is not available to
take your call.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Please leave a message after the tone.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Hikia, Elizah, this is Roe Shapiro trying you again.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist,
has been disappeared, possibly for saying too.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Much Alfa Comega headquarters. This is Cynthia or.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Susan had the day off?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a
former member.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Hi, Mini, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
In the end.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
After months of phone calls, Rose finally hears back from
Alpha Coyomega headquarters. They pass along a single document, a
letter dated April twenty first, two thousand and five. The
letter is brief, plainly stating that Rose Shapiro resigned from
Alpha Kyomega of her own accord. They have no other
(21:47):
information to share. We know now definitely that the only
way that we're going to get anywhere with this is
actually by finding a sorority girl who was there and
willing to talk.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to
drop everything for one of my updates, now she was
sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I'm cutting potatoes? Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to
make some mashed potatoes.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great.
Recorded Fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What
are you cleaning out your fridge?
Speaker 6 (22:38):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing.
But a couple of weeks later, I get a call
from one of Rose's ex rority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially,
Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the month
she thought about it and had a change of heart.
(23:03):
I call Rose to share with her our good fortune.
As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister.
She was one of the six girls in the room
who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that,
Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time,
and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties,
singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose
(23:36):
that legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that
since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us.
She might be our last chance to get an answer.
So during the conversation we'd need to tread lightly, and
I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit.
(23:58):
The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution,
plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for
Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her
for years? Why did you kick me out? So I
decide that a code word is in order, a word
(24:18):
I can use to signal to Rose that the time
is right. I have plenty of experience with code words.
Dinner party going too late and I want people out
of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses,
and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word
band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line
while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls,
(24:43):
I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word,
and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been
well worth it.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Okay, what's the code work going to be?
Speaker 5 (24:56):
So?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Okay? So I was thinking maybe medicine balls.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code
words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet o de toilette.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
That's very Canadian.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
How about how about if I were to say without
a do or a don't? Is that something that people say? Oh,
I'd say. Well, for the better part of an hour,
Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes, we have no tomatoes, boy,
or my dog's barking. Some people call me Maurice. Finally
Rose is satisfied. How about I say, and so it goes.
That's what I'll show and so it goes, and so
(25:41):
it goes. Okay, I'm writing that down. So that's going
to be our code word. Okay, So when I say
and so it goes, you're gonna say, you know, Tricia,
like what just what happened? We had a plan, we
had a code word. It was time for another word
(26:02):
from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey, so I have
I have Rose on the line. I think you guys
can hear each other.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
Rose, Hi, Hi.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia
catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big
Talent Show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
And they were like, we've never done this before, but
here you go.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did
die for best New Member.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission,
and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after
Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different
person and started to veer onto what Trisha calls a
bad pass.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
You got angry, and not at certain people, but just
that like the situation at life.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
It's not like you were like pushing people down or
punching them in the face. To me, I think that
what I perceived was like partying, partying with attorneys, like
drinking a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like
two big middle fingers up. It's just like yo, no
one's going to tell me what to do or how
(27:42):
to live my life.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I just have a perception of myself that's like ooh,
I be cancer, Like all bets are off. Man, Like
now I get to do what I want like I
did my time, Like now I'm like, like, if I
want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to
be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just be canter,
Like I think there was you were suffering.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
The conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence to
battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate any further,
something needed to be said, I and so and so
it goes. I think that just Rose got the memo
(28:27):
and was back on point.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know
if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out,
like I had no idea was coming.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could
give you like a list of like this is what
it was, this is what it was, this is what
it was. I honestly like, can't.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why
she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants
to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk
about it, can't get into it.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Like I wish I could give you specific sentence of
like at this party, who said this? Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Like I don't know it wasn't making sense to me,
and I worried that it wasn't making sense to Rose either,
So I try to clarify literally, like I'm not sure
whether it's a matter of like you do know, but
you feel an obligation to kind of hold the secrets
of the story all these years later. Do you know
what I mean?
Speaker 6 (29:30):
Or yeah, no I I and and maybe like I
would say.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
No, like was there some kind of oath or something
like that, or was it because you don't.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Remember well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath.
Everything that happens in here stays in here. And so
there was there was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece
to those meetings.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I get the feeling that Tricia and the most of
her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets
and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
This is I think the hardest thing was to think
of the health of the chapter as a whole, and
how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts
like one or two people.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet.
So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back
in with her about how she felt the call went.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I think it sounds like she has some memories, but
she's not sure where she picked them up or who
she's be betraying if she talked about them. She's always
going to believe and everyone else in that room is
always going to believe that there was something about my
behavior that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority.
And I mean she almost called me a cancer. She
(30:54):
almost said like for the health of the organization, I
had to be removed. I think Truth is a bad person.
I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a
cool girl, But ultimately what I got from her is
that she doesn't think kicking me out was a mistake.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
For the next few weeks, I try to find someone,
anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I
phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people
who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long
shot they might have heard something. And then one day
I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's
(31:33):
college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when
we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that
seemed too strange. To be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how
are you?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Drive through right now, real quick.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with
her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned
up Rick.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And one of the things though, that he shared with
me and I wonder, I mean, I feel like you
must know this though we've not ever talked about it,
is the fact that he was also kicked out of
his fraternity.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Holy shit, wait what Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Like at the time, he was also kicked out of his.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Fraternity of k kicked out Rick natering Ouse.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the
same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai.
Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked
out in years, and he never got an answer as
to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it,
one that explains why both of them got kicked out.
I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good
(32:58):
idea for her and Rick to talk.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, we should make that happen.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
Hey, Jonathan, how are you good?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you
guys hear each other?
Speaker 5 (33:13):
Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting
in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long
after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida.
The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the
first time they've talked about getting kicked out. Right away,
they start trading stories.
Speaker 8 (33:36):
Mine was just a phone call, and it was a
phone call from one of our brothers that was founding
father Chaz, and just basically said, hey, you're.
Speaker 5 (33:47):
You're done here.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That is so insane. You were like the responsible one.
That's so insane. Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them
talk about old times. Eventually why their way back to
the days when they were a couple. When Rose was
diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment.
He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After
the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended,
Rick was the one waiting at home to look after
(34:17):
her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember
being were you scared at any point?
Speaker 6 (34:23):
Rick?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Like? Do you fear that? Like Rose was gonna die
of course.
Speaker 8 (34:27):
I mean, you hear that the word cancer, and that's
obviously one of the things that you're going to think about.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
You know, we had been dating.
Speaker 8 (34:33):
For a little bit, but it wasn't a great length
of time before this even happened. So you know, you
take those feelings that you have for somebody and I mean,
you're still developing a relationship and then all of a
sudden it go through and think, hey, you know you
have cancer.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And I was like bald and my skin was turning gray,
and like there he was like going to functions with
me and being my boyfriend.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
And I remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we
go down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because
it's right around my birthday.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
It's the beginning of July.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
And then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and
the temperature dropped like.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
A crazy amount. It downpours.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
We get completely soaked, and now there's like chemo rose
is freezing. I have no immune system. I'm just like
teeth chattering, and so Rick took me over to the
vendor area and he bought me this like head to
toe windbreaker outfit of Darryl Earnhardt juice.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Do you remember that?
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I do? You look like you pretty much belong with
that van base.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I looked like a twelve year old boy who was
sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friends.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after
her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick,
and although Rick was sad, he understood it.
Speaker 8 (36:05):
Rose needed to have some time to be able to
go and experience life.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
And so when that took place, her and I split,
and a.
Speaker 8 (36:19):
Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you
split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to
go and kind of live her life.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Well that's kind of a shit way of doing it,
because I mean, hell, didn't you take care of her? Yeah?
But I mean she's got it, She's got to figure
herself out.
Speaker 8 (36:32):
We both got it, but we got it, and nobody
else really understood.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after
he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends
were mad at Rose, and Rose's friends were mad at Rick,
and each side started rumors about the other, and in
that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined.
It was like the breakup version of the Gift of
the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory
(37:13):
seems to click for Rose.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I
am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought
that maybe I had done him wrong or something could
have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt
like defensive or protective on either side of that equation.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up
to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine,
going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up,
and I heard she was cheating on you for two years.
Her was cheating on you for you know, the two
months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap
You remember Trip. Oh yeah, he was the one kick
(37:57):
comes by my apartment one time.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She
was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
The stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a
lot of Rose's sorority sisters were beginning to think about
her after her cancer went into remission, that she was
too wild, too much of a partier. But how do
you kick out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority.
It's a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent,
(38:26):
if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through
her illness. These rumors must have been just what the
sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral
high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's
sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick
saw the experience as having changed her back to the
(38:46):
person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai.
Speaker 8 (38:49):
When she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what,
thank who? Really you're gonna You're gonna go that route
because that's that's not her.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Rose.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Are you a Beatles fan?
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best, So
I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles.
I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard
for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style.
But how lately, looking at old photos of the band
with Pete Best hunched in the background, it all seems
a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs
(39:34):
of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether,
like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know,
And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why
was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he
just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle?
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I
think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai.
I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put
into words or a definition what made them similar and
made me different, But I just know that I was different.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Roads Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer,
that maybe they would have forced you out earlier?
Speaker 1 (40:19):
God?
Speaker 6 (40:19):
Probably.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
I think I was doing a really good job of
trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh,
my best behavior, but I think that like the real
me just kept like cracking out, and then once once
after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, oh,
let's not put.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
On errs anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Like I am who I am, and I was trying
really hard to like cram myself into that mold and
it just wasn't fitting, like it just wasn't working.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, Like I think, like, in having spoken to quite
a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none
of them sound like you. No, and I mean that
I mean that in a nice way.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
No, I'm totally down with that.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Like I'm a fucking maniac and that's who I am,
and I've come to fully embrace that right now, Like
I'm really cool with who I am.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Well you know, I'm uh, I'm cool with who you are. Also,
thank you. Years after getting kicked out of the Beatles,
Pete Best said he was still hopeful that maybe one
day he'd find out why. Maybe I'll run into Paul,
he said, and we can talk about it. If decades
(41:37):
from now, Rose should run into one of her sorority sisters,
I hope you won't need to talk about anything other
than the weather or what she's making for supper, And
then she could say or goodbyes and get back to chopping,
banking and basically being the maniac that she is.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Now that the fernentures returning to its goodwill home, now
that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage
to poss take this moment to deserve. If we met
(42:47):
him we tried.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
But felt around for far too.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
From Things that Accidentally.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Tal Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein
along with Khalila Holt. The senior producer is Caitlin Roberts.
Editing by Jorge just, Alex Bloomberg and Wendy Door. Special
thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, and Jackie Cohen. The
(43:17):
show was mixed by Kate Bolinsky, music by Christine Fellows
and John K. Sampson. Additional music credits for this episode
can be found on our website, gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight.
Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of
Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by Hailey Shaw.
Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at
(43:38):
Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll have a new episode
next week by Palagram. Why a Blazer we repainted? Wh
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not? No,
I think.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Didn't you try to Facebook friend me?
Speaker 4 (00:12):
I don't think I responded.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even
friend me?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows
we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's
friend each other at the exact same.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Time, get from each other. Because I have to go
to work right now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Can't you take the computer with you.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm stepping out the door now and I have to
get on my.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Bicycle bounce on the handlebars. And then you could we
could we could facebook chat. Don't you think that's a
good idea? If, like, if we both friend each other
at the same time? No, why not?
Speaker 5 (00:46):
One?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful
from Dimlin. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's
episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had their
(01:21):
first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser known
fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked out
their original drummer Pete Best. The Beatles had their manager
do the job. The lads just don't want you in
the band anymore, he said.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
No.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged.
Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't
funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a
long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends
had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family.
Oh bla de oh bla dah, life went on. That's
(02:01):
what happens. People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs,
and eventually they stop searching for the reason why. Most
people do anyway, So.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen.
I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two
thousand and one.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
This is Rose and the school she was entering was
the University of North Florida.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
And it's like a beachy community. I was like a
cool surfer chick. I dreve like an old Volvo that
was covered in like band stickers.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Rose was a rebel, and if all the teen movies
I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about
campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular
kids and at the University of North Florida, nobody was
more popular than the sorority girls.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Will you like walk through school and they're set up
there and they're like along the sidewalks and.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
They're like, are you interested in enjoying a sorority?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And I would just like blow by on my skateboard
and be like no.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
With with with sorority life.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities
and like the cool kids and their pop callers, like,
I didn't think that was for me. So the summer
after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I
start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm
(03:24):
making friends with all these people in the Greek community
and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're
not weird. I started to dress like them, I started
to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And the fall of.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
My junior year, I rushed and I got a bid
from Alpha Kai and I joined.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Sorry, the name of the sorority.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Was, It's called Alpha Kai Omega.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Alpha Kai Omega, and we were the Theta Sigma chapter
Stata Sigma.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Chapter theta with the thh.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So it was the Theta Sigma chapter of Alpha ky Omega,
and it was at unf sororities.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It was a new and exciting world with such a
rich history. It turns out that Condolei's a Rice Enron Whistleblow,
or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on
Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Chi and had
taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened
avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a
(04:33):
part of Alpha chi Omega Theta Sigma chapter.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, we wear pearls,
we know our manners.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
You know, like that, did they use the word classy.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
You're not being classy?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
And they had like all these weird acronyms, like if
someone came up to you and whispered in your your pearl,
it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl, please engage
in acts resembling a lady.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So if someone says pearl in your that would mean
you would.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Begin to It would mean like, let's say I'm doing
a keg stand at a party and another sister is there.
Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant,
because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead,
she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper
in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh,
you're right, thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters,
building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to
toe in scarlet red and olive green, the Alpha Kyomega colors.
And while she'd never seen herself being cut out for
all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing was it
actually made her really happy.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I
got really into it and just walking around school now
all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody
knows you, and now you're in on the in side
jokes like I felt like I belonged, Like I went
from being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the
bubbly participant.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips,
watching The Bachelor, one weekend, they all ran a campus
charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss and.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired after
that five K and I'm having a lot of trouble
sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was
feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went
to see a doctor.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
And I said, could you take a look at my neck, Like,
I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who
was treating me that day just like looked at me
in horror and.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Was like, you have to go to radiation right now.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And I was like, I have to make an appointment,
and she was like, no, I'm calling the second floor
and you're going to go get a CT scan right now.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
So it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
They called it nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge,
pronounced lymph notes all over my body. You could take
one look at me and it looked like my neck
and chest were just full of golf balls, like something
was wrong. By the time we started testing and staging,
I mean I was a stage three. This is like
big cake cancer. This is like shave your head, Rose,
like you've got real cancer. So I think around May
(07:25):
I started chemo.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars.
Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The
one bright note throughout was the support she got from
her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville
Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the
quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha
(07:47):
Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to
Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge
of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she
kept up with her work.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
And new girls are coming through and they have to
decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha
Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell.
Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority
with the cancer girl and we're saving her life.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And that was something that they led with, that was
actually something that was made explicit.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Oh, I got up there with my bald head and
gave a speech and cried every time about how my
sisters were saving my life.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Rose was lucky. By the spring of her senior year,
her cancer went into remission for the first time in
more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I just had a lot of fun that semester. My
hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my
energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person,
and like, now I'm not just going to a party
to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of
the house, like now I want a party, Like now
I want to have fun.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
So I did. I felt like I deserved it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Then one night, after being cancer free for five months,
Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which I met
in an old auditorium on campus.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose,
can you stay after We need to talk to you.
So they clear everybody out and now it's just like
five or six women and me, and they're like, all right, Rose,
like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to
ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah,
(09:25):
we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I
thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like,
you're asking me to step down? As VP recruitment, like
the new girls love me, I'm great with the new girls.
Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no,
we want you to resign from the organization. We want
(09:47):
you to resign from Alpha Kai.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And I lost it.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up
with you, and like you get that cold feeling in
your chest and you know that someone's about to look
at you and say like this isn't Yeah. It was
like that times one hundred, Like now a hundred of
my friends were all breaking up with me in a
very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming, and
(10:15):
I just kept.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Saying, why, what do you mean you want me out?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And this is when they just all of a sudden,
it was like these women I'd known for years, they
were strangers and there was no compassion, there was no kindness.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
It was you know what you did, Rose, you know
what you did?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And I was like, no, no, you have to tell
me what did I do? Did something bad happen?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Rose?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
We're not getting into it. You know what you did?
And I'm just like, no, no, I don't know what
I did.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And at this point I am so distraught. I think
I'm like hyperventilating and crying. I think I'm ugly crying.
I think, like snaw, it's just bubbling out of my
nose and I don't have the wherewithal to demand answers.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And I'm like, so that's it, We're done here.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
You want me out and they're like, yeah, as of tonight,
you are no longer affiliated with Alpha ky Omega.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council,
She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and
no one would tell.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Her why No one has ever told me?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
And did you ever pursue it further?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
God, yes, for years?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Like, hey guys, it's been five years since we graduated college.
I know this is kind of weird, but I still
think about it. Does anyone want to tell me? I've
done the thing on Facebook where I've made the big
Facebook post where I'm like, all right, does everyone remember
when Rose got kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you
or anyone you know has any information, like I'm still
dying to know, And then like dozens of my friends
(11:54):
are like, oh, I'm following this post.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And still to this day, no answers like you're racking
your brain. I'm like, did I get blackout drunk and
sleep with someone's boyfriend?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Did you ever see any other of the sisters get
kicked out?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
No?
Speaker 4 (12:09):
No?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And that's the thing, is like, Okay, let's not mince
words here, like was Rosea party girl?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Were there girls who were way worse than me?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
And did they get kicked out? Never?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes,
does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And would Jonathan
quit before solving it? Never. Rose's college memories have all
been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, but
her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties.
(12:42):
They had to be past the college drama. So after
Rose and I part, I begin reaching out to them
for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. Trish,
I've been trying to get in touch Anita. I was
trying to reach you.
Speaker 5 (13:00):
Zoe.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
This is Jonathan goldste we'll speak soon, Claire. I phone
them in their cars.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Hi, Hey, I've got my daughter walking into BALLEI class short.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
No, of course, I phone them in their homes. Do
you have a minute to.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Speak, I do, I have a toddler to say, you.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, Hi on.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Sugar, because she just pole the bag of jelly being
But yes, no, I cannot pick you up. I'm not
picking you up.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
No, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
But not one of Rose's ex sorority sisters can tell
me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember,
it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why.
There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but
only a handful had been in the room when Rose
was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber.
(13:53):
When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to
call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber,
this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some
time ago. Hello. I call back, and Amber apologizes for
our being disconnected, but when I ask her why Rose
(14:14):
was kicked out again, the line goes dead. This is
odd otter Still is a conversation with an Alpha Chi
sister a year younger than Rose. She says she inherited
all the disciplinary documents from Rose's year, but that one
file was missing, the one detailing why Rose had been
(14:35):
kicked out. Things were beginning to feel kolludy. Hello, oh
hey Rose, Hi. I call Rose to update her, but
(14:55):
it seems she's already gotten wind of my doings.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So I think you must have been reaching out to
a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy
snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly a consensus was reached
shut this guy out.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Just the way that some of the girls were replying
in the thread. It just felt like twelve years.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Hadn't even passed And how do you mean?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place,
and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like
mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this
whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond.
And then everyone just started to follow in line and
be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Gonna call them, Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have
to go over their heads.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
How Alpha Kaya men a headquarters this is season.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick
building at the end of a long tree lined cool
de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ki
Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out,
it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan,
the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Okay, yes, I'm sure there are.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that
comes up sometimes where people want to know why they
might have been kicked out of a sorority or is
this uncommon?
Speaker 4 (16:39):
I would think most people would know why.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, what happened in her case? This is a woman
by the name of Rose Shapiro. And how do you
spell her last name Shapiro? I think it must be
spelled s h A.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
S H.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
No sha h p s and Peter I R O H.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Are you okay?
Speaker 6 (17:18):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
I did sign her in here?
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Does it?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Does it say anything with alongside her name?
Speaker 4 (17:30):
I'm just looking at a status So you're.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
So then there is some information alongside her name.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything
about this member. I wouldn't know her at all. And
you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
What if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would
she be able to find out the information?
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I would think so sure.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Mm hm, well we'll just have to see. After the break,
a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Hey Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It going good? You ready to get some answers? I
tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and
we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll
call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
Okay, I'm going to call right now, Alpha coy O
Mega Headquarters.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
This is the season.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Hi, Susan, my name is Rose.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And lying on my stomach on the floor of the
darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular
girl as I play with the phone cord and silently
nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of
Alpha coy O Mega, the Theta Sigma chapter.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Okay, and what's your name is Rose Shapiro? Okay, all right,
I'm gonna give you the Mandy tar water.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Okay, before you transfer. I did have just one more
question for you. Is there any way that you can
just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as
a member in good standing or as a former member?
Is there even is there anyone?
Speaker 8 (19:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
I think it's I think it says that you're not
in good stand. I wish I could help you, but
I don't know that. Let me see here. Mendy is
out this afternoon, but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we
leave a message with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you
should do that.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When
she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again.
Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving
voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the
pan while listening in for emotional support. Okay, you're on Rose.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
At the tone, please record your message.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
My name is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off
to other people at headquarters. Someone named Gina.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Let's try Gina hold on.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
Then someone named Eliza Eliza Payne is not available to
take your call.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Please leave a message after the tone.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Hikia, Elizah, this is Roe Shapiro trying you again.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist,
has been disappeared, possibly for saying too.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Much Alfa Comega headquarters. This is Cynthia or.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Susan had the day off?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a
former member.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Hi, Mini, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
In the end.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
After months of phone calls, Rose finally hears back from
Alpha Coyomega headquarters. They pass along a single document, a
letter dated April twenty first, two thousand and five. The
letter is brief, plainly stating that Rose Shapiro resigned from
Alpha Kyomega of her own accord. They have no other
(21:47):
information to share. We know now definitely that the only
way that we're going to get anywhere with this is
actually by finding a sorority girl who was there and
willing to talk.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to
drop everything for one of my updates, now she was
sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I'm cutting potatoes? Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to
make some mashed potatoes.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great.
Recorded Fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What
are you cleaning out your fridge?
Speaker 6 (22:38):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing.
But a couple of weeks later, I get a call
from one of Rose's ex rority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially,
Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the month
she thought about it and had a change of heart.
(23:03):
I call Rose to share with her our good fortune.
As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister.
She was one of the six girls in the room
who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that,
Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time,
and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties,
singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose
(23:36):
that legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that
since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us.
She might be our last chance to get an answer.
So during the conversation we'd need to tread lightly, and
I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit.
(23:58):
The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution,
plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for
Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her
for years? Why did you kick me out? So I
decide that a code word is in order, a word
(24:18):
I can use to signal to Rose that the time
is right. I have plenty of experience with code words.
Dinner party going too late and I want people out
of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses,
and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word
band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line
while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls,
(24:43):
I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word,
and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been
well worth it.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Okay, what's the code work going to be?
Speaker 5 (24:56):
So?
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Okay? So I was thinking maybe medicine balls.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code
words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet o de toilette.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
That's very Canadian.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
How about how about if I were to say without
a do or a don't? Is that something that people say? Oh,
I'd say. Well, for the better part of an hour,
Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes, we have no tomatoes, boy,
or my dog's barking. Some people call me Maurice. Finally
Rose is satisfied. How about I say, and so it goes.
That's what I'll show and so it goes, and so
(25:41):
it goes. Okay, I'm writing that down. So that's going
to be our code word. Okay, So when I say
and so it goes, you're gonna say, you know, Tricia,
like what just what happened? We had a plan, we
had a code word. It was time for another word
(26:02):
from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey, so I have
I have Rose on the line. I think you guys
can hear each other.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
Rose, Hi, Hi.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia
catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big
Talent Show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
And they were like, we've never done this before, but
here you go.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did
die for best New Member.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission,
and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after
Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different
person and started to veer onto what Trisha calls a
bad pass.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
You got angry, and not at certain people, but just
that like the situation at life.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
It's not like you were like pushing people down or
punching them in the face. To me, I think that
what I perceived was like partying, partying with attorneys, like
drinking a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like
two big middle fingers up. It's just like yo, no
one's going to tell me what to do or how
(27:42):
to live my life.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I just have a perception of myself that's like ooh,
I be cancer, Like all bets are off. Man, Like
now I get to do what I want like I
did my time, Like now I'm like, like, if I
want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to
be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just be canter,
Like I think there was you were suffering.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
The conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence to
battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate any further,
something needed to be said, I and so and so
it goes. I think that just Rose got the memo
(28:27):
and was back on point.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know
if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out,
like I had no idea was coming.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could
give you like a list of like this is what
it was, this is what it was, this is what
it was. I honestly like, can't.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why
she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants
to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk
about it, can't get into it.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Like I wish I could give you specific sentence of
like at this party, who said this? Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Like I don't know it wasn't making sense to me,
and I worried that it wasn't making sense to Rose either,
So I try to clarify literally, like I'm not sure
whether it's a matter of like you do know, but
you feel an obligation to kind of hold the secrets
of the story all these years later. Do you know
what I mean?
Speaker 6 (29:30):
Or yeah, no I I and and maybe like I
would say.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
No, like was there some kind of oath or something
like that, or was it because you don't.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Remember well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath.
Everything that happens in here stays in here. And so
there was there was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece
to those meetings.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I get the feeling that Tricia and the most of
her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets
and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
This is I think the hardest thing was to think
of the health of the chapter as a whole, and
how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts
like one or two people.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet.
So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back
in with her about how she felt the call went.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I think it sounds like she has some memories, but
she's not sure where she picked them up or who
she's be betraying if she talked about them. She's always
going to believe and everyone else in that room is
always going to believe that there was something about my
behavior that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority.
And I mean she almost called me a cancer. She
(30:54):
almost said like for the health of the organization, I
had to be removed. I think Truth is a bad person.
I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a
cool girl, But ultimately what I got from her is
that she doesn't think kicking me out was a mistake.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
For the next few weeks, I try to find someone,
anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I
phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people
who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long
shot they might have heard something. And then one day
I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's
(31:33):
college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when
we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that
seemed too strange. To be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how
are you?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Drive through right now, real quick.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with
her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned
up Rick.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
And one of the things though, that he shared with
me and I wonder, I mean, I feel like you
must know this though we've not ever talked about it,
is the fact that he was also kicked out of
his fraternity.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Holy shit, wait what Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Like at the time, he was also kicked out of his.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Fraternity of k kicked out Rick natering Ouse.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the
same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai.
Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked
out in years, and he never got an answer as
to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it,
one that explains why both of them got kicked out.
I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good
(32:58):
idea for her and Rick to talk.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, we should make that happen.
Speaker 5 (33:05):
Hey, Jonathan, how are you good?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you
guys hear each other?
Speaker 5 (33:13):
Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you?
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting
in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long
after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida.
The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the
first time they've talked about getting kicked out. Right away,
they start trading stories.
Speaker 8 (33:36):
Mine was just a phone call, and it was a
phone call from one of our brothers that was founding
father Chaz, and just basically said, hey, you're.
Speaker 5 (33:47):
You're done here.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That is so insane. You were like the responsible one.
That's so insane. Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them
talk about old times. Eventually why their way back to
the days when they were a couple. When Rose was
diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment.
He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After
the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended,
Rick was the one waiting at home to look after
(34:17):
her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember
being were you scared at any point?
Speaker 6 (34:23):
Rick?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Like? Do you fear that? Like Rose was gonna die
of course.
Speaker 8 (34:27):
I mean, you hear that the word cancer, and that's
obviously one of the things that you're going to think about.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
You know, we had been dating.
Speaker 8 (34:33):
For a little bit, but it wasn't a great length
of time before this even happened. So you know, you
take those feelings that you have for somebody and I mean,
you're still developing a relationship and then all of a
sudden it go through and think, hey, you know you
have cancer.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And I was like bald and my skin was turning gray,
and like there he was like going to functions with
me and being my boyfriend.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
And I remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we
go down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because
it's right around my birthday.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
It's the beginning of July.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
And then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and
the temperature dropped like.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
A crazy amount. It downpours.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
We get completely soaked, and now there's like chemo rose
is freezing. I have no immune system. I'm just like
teeth chattering, and so Rick took me over to the
vendor area and he bought me this like head to
toe windbreaker outfit of Darryl Earnhardt juice.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Do you remember that?
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I do? You look like you pretty much belong with
that van base.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I looked like a twelve year old boy who was
sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friends.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after
her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick,
and although Rick was sad, he understood it.
Speaker 8 (36:05):
Rose needed to have some time to be able to
go and experience life.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
And so when that took place, her and I split,
and a.
Speaker 8 (36:19):
Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you
split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to
go and kind of live her life.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
Well that's kind of a shit way of doing it,
because I mean, hell, didn't you take care of her? Yeah?
But I mean she's got it, She's got to figure
herself out.
Speaker 8 (36:32):
We both got it, but we got it, and nobody
else really understood.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after
he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends
were mad at Rose, and Rose's friends were mad at Rick,
and each side started rumors about the other, and in
that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined.
It was like the breakup version of the Gift of
the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory
(37:13):
seems to click for Rose.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I
am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought
that maybe I had done him wrong or something could
have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt
like defensive or protective on either side of that equation.
Speaker 8 (37:32):
Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up
to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine,
going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up,
and I heard she was cheating on you for two years.
Her was cheating on you for you know, the two
months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap
You remember Trip. Oh yeah, he was the one kick
(37:57):
comes by my apartment one time.
Speaker 5 (37:59):
He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She
was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
The stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a
lot of Rose's sorority sisters were beginning to think about
her after her cancer went into remission, that she was
too wild, too much of a partier. But how do
you kick out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority.
It's a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent,
(38:26):
if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through
her illness. These rumors must have been just what the
sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral
high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's
sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick
saw the experience as having changed her back to the
(38:46):
person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai.
Speaker 8 (38:49):
When she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what,
thank who? Really you're gonna You're gonna go that route
because that's that's not her.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Rose.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Are you a Beatles fan?
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best, So
I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles.
I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard
for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style.
But how lately, looking at old photos of the band
with Pete Best hunched in the background, it all seems
a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs
(39:34):
of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether,
like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know,
And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why
was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he
just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle?
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I
think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai.
I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put
into words or a definition what made them similar and
made me different, But I just know that I was different.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Roads Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer,
that maybe they would have forced you out earlier?
Speaker 1 (40:19):
God?
Speaker 6 (40:19):
Probably.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
I think I was doing a really good job of
trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh,
my best behavior, but I think that like the real
me just kept like cracking out, and then once once
after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, oh,
let's not put.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
On errs anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Like I am who I am, and I was trying
really hard to like cram myself into that mold and
it just wasn't fitting, like it just wasn't working.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, Like I think, like, in having spoken to quite
a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none
of them sound like you. No, and I mean that
I mean that in a nice way.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
No, I'm totally down with that.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Like I'm a fucking maniac and that's who I am,
and I've come to fully embrace that right now, Like
I'm really cool with who I am.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Well you know, I'm uh, I'm cool with who you are. Also,
thank you. Years after getting kicked out of the Beatles,
Pete Best said he was still hopeful that maybe one
day he'd find out why. Maybe I'll run into Paul,
he said, and we can talk about it. If decades
(41:37):
from now, Rose should run into one of her sorority sisters,
I hope you won't need to talk about anything other
than the weather or what she's making for supper, And
then she could say or goodbyes and get back to chopping,
banking and basically being the maniac that she is.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Now that the fernentures returning to its goodwill home, now
that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage
to poss take this moment to deserve. If we met
(42:47):
him we tried.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
But felt around for far too.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
From Things that Accidentally.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Tal Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein
along with Khalila Holt. The senior producer is Caitlin Roberts.
Editing by Jorge just, Alex Bloomberg and Wendy Door. Special
thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, and Jackie Cohen. The
(43:17):
show was mixed by Kate Bolinsky, music by Christine Fellows
and John K. Sampson. Additional music credits for this episode
can be found on our website, gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight.
Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of
Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by Hailey Shaw.
Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at
(43:38):
Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll have a new episode
next week by Palagram. Why a Blazer we repainted? Wh
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