February 10, 2023 • 55 mins
More than 25 years ago, two teachers in New Mexico were fired for refusing to stop teaching Chicano History in their classrooms; today, that history repeats itself in Denver, Colorado. What are students missing out on when they don’t learn about their history in school?
In this episode of Latino USA, we present a conversation between teachers Tim Hernández and Nadine Córdova. They talk about their shared struggles, the relevance of Chicano History in the classroom, and the lessons they’ve learned from this experience. Plus, we hear from two of Nadine's and Tim's former students.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I view it as very colonial, the idea that everybody
needs to be able to do this by this time,
so that way everybody can bablah I understand the philosophy.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Right, we want our children to be prepared.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
But if we're not actively investing in our students being
prepared for the actual condition in life that they're going
to live, then we're just giving them all these tools
in the skill set and nothing to hang it on,
nothing to apply, nothing that actually really matters.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
From Futromedia and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria Inojosa
today teaching Chicano history now and then two Chicano educators
in conversation more than twenty five years ago, Nadine Cordova,
(00:49):
along with her sister Patsy, made history.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
For years, they were considered outstanding teachers at the Tiny
School in vond New Mexico, until they were suspended for
refusing to teach the prescribed curriculum. More specifically, they didn't
want the sisters to teach Chicano history.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
This is a news clip from a local Albuquerque television
station in nineteen ninety nine. Although they later became known
for teaching Chicano history, Nadine and Patsy only learned about
the movement as adults.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
They read about the struggles.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Mexican Americans faced and the fight for labor rights, land
and a political identity in the United States during the
nineteen sixties and early seventies. The Chicano Movement, as it's
called changed how Patsy and Nadine thought about themselves and
(01:43):
their history, and both teachers wanted to share that with
their students too.
Speaker 6 (01:48):
I grew up being very ashamed of who I was,
being a Mexican American or at Chicana identify as at Chicana,
and I refused at that point to do to my
students what had been done to me in the public system.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Nadine, did you feel the same way.
Speaker 7 (02:02):
I feel that way. I feel like our language, our history,
and our culture that's our foundation. And without our foundation,
you know, we just cannot we cannot succeed.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
After that, they were fired. The school administration claimed that
the Court of Us Sisters, especially Nadine, we're teaching quote
racial intolerance and promoting quote a militant attitude in their students.
Looking back, almost three decades later, Nadine still remembers what
a difficult experience.
Speaker 7 (02:34):
That was all the accusations and all the hateful things
they say about you when you know you're doing a
good job and you know you've given so much because
teachers give so much, and then to be treated like that,
it's not easy.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Still, the court of our sisters fought back. They filed
a lawsuit against the school district, and eventually they want
more than a half a million dollar out of court
settlement and the option to be reinstated to their jobs.
Nadine and Patsy both declined to go back, but they
didn't stop teaching. They moved to Albuquerque and recently retired
(03:10):
after a long career as public school teachers. But this
is not a story that has stayed in the past.
Educators who choose to teach as Nadine and her sister
did are still facing consequences. Last year, in Denver, Colorado,
Tim Hernandez went through something similar. His contract wasn't renewed
(03:32):
at North High School after teaching Chicano history and literature
to his students.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I didn't just want to teach English. I have my
degree in English, right, but I wanted.
Speaker 8 (03:42):
To teach ethnic studies, and I wanted to teach Latino literature,
to go right back to my community and give an
educational experience that's rooted in pride and empowerment that I
never got in school, and more importantly, that kids today
are still not getting in school.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So we asked Tim and Nadine more than four hundred
miles apart, if they wanted to meet virtually to talk
about their shared experiences.
Speaker 7 (04:13):
Hello, my friend, Hey, how are you mean?
Speaker 9 (04:15):
Guy?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It's so good to see you here from you.
Speaker 7 (04:17):
So good to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Also, after hearing about each other's stories, they had an
instant connection and began corresponding.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
I've been talking to my sons about you, Duah.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I've been talking to my kids about you. I've been
talking about all kinds. I've been so hyped for this.
Speaker 7 (04:34):
Oh that's great. That's great.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Today, on our show, Tim and Nadine share why Chicano
history is still relevant for kids, and they reflect on
the struggles they've faced and the lessons they've learned. Here
are Nadine Cordova and Tim Ernandez in conversation.
Speaker 7 (05:00):
The way I see the system loves the teachers that
stay in their place, don't make any waves, don't create
any issues or don't ask for too much. And I
just don't think that's fair. It's not fair to our
students because it seems like teachers, we should teach from
our heart and we should be giving them knowledge that
it's for their heart and for their soul.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I mean, like to be blunt with you, Nadine, like,
that's why I was placed on administratively right, Like, I
was told I wouldn't be returning to North High School
they openly at a five minute meeting. After teaching there
for a year and a half, they said, Hey, you're
not coming back next year.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 7 (05:33):
Wow. The school that I worked at was mostly immigrant students,
and I remember I was taking some I was taking
some classes for ESL and I don't remember exactly where
I was, you know, learning like all these quotes from
the Mexican Revolution and Milliano Zapata and I love the quota.
You know, I'd rather die on my feet than live
on my Kneesa. So my husband's from Chiwuahu, and I
(05:54):
was so excited. I you know, I'm going to do
all these quotes.
Speaker 10 (05:57):
I'm going to do this about Milliano Sapata and there
because you know he had he experienced all the racism,
and h for his whole life experienced the racism.
Speaker 7 (06:07):
He told me they were going to fire me, and
I thought I had the role. Would they fire me?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh wow? I started.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
My first day in North High School was in January
twenty twenty one, and I was so excited. I grew
up a couple of blocks down the street, and so
I was all excited and jazzed up that I got
there and the kids were like half asleep, and I
was like, oh man, this is everything I did my
degree for, right, right exactly?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
What about you, Emiga?
Speaker 7 (06:35):
I think when I first started teaching, because I decided
to go into special education and just regular education, I
think I did a lot of the traditional things. You
know what most teachers do, you know, the textbooks and
this and that. It took a long time for me
to feel comfortable when I started including more topics that
were relevant, and I would get response from students in
(06:58):
the writing, how creative, how passionate they were about their
writing and what they were doing, and how involved they were.
I think that is when I really got into the
group of how I wanted to teach and what kind
of teacher I wanted to be and totally non traditional,
and that's what creates problems in the you know, with
Principles and you're totally non traditional, they really expect you
to be on this chapter of the literature book by
(07:21):
this time of the year. And you know, the literature
books are crazy. My my sister, she taught high school English,
and she would have topics like my life as the
Dallas Cowboy cheerleader, my life is a shoe, you know,
that kind of thing, when there were so many things
going on in their world that would make it much
more relevant for them to write about it. So that's
(07:42):
why we chose to be non traditional. Yeah, and that
is something that they just are not comfortable with and that.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
They're not ready for.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Last year, when I was at North, I was like
every week I would have to justify what I was
teaching and why we were teaching this, and there were
so many caveats and so many perspectives that people wanted
to insert into what I was teaching. We have this
hyper standardization and standards and testing and all these things.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
It's it's bad so many politics involved. You know, the
Principles is superintendent. They all have their own ideas as
school boards, and then at the state level, you know,
they want to put this curriculum in and this, you know,
more testing, and then now in the higher levels, it
is that all these people that know nothing about education,
about being in the classroom, no better than us, everybody
can do better than us. And it's just it just
(08:30):
becomes too political, too much pressure. It's not wanting our creativity.
All they want is for you to fit their little standards,
prove that you're doing this. It's it's just very stressful.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I think like it becomes really transactional. And because we
view teaching as transactional, I one time had a conversation
with a parent who disagreed with what I was teaching,
and they said, oh, well, this is what I think
my students should be taught, right, this is.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
What I think.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And I remember having like a very clear moment with
the parent and empathetically right, like I was not interested
in making them feel bad, but I said, look like
your perspective on your child's education matters to me, and
it will never matter more than your child's perspective on
their education, right, because I think actually your students probably
know what they need more than you and I both do.
(09:18):
Right that right, more than even sometimes I do. And
I think when we have an education system that is
really based upon adult opinions rather than student experiences, right
we yes, of course, we're creating something that our students
don't respond to more often than not.
Speaker 7 (09:34):
Exactly. I remember I used to in my classes. I
would ask them, what are the topics that you were
interested in that are relevant to you, Like in our
community there was a lar teen pregnancy and drugs and
alcohol and violence, and we would develop units around that.
I'd find as many matures as I could find, and
we would develop units around whatever interested them, so they
(09:57):
bought into their curriculum. I love teaching.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Well, and I think it's really how teaching is supposed
to work, right, Like learning is supposed to It's not
supposed to be transactional, because learning is relational.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Students are not the hard part.
Speaker 7 (10:10):
Of teaching, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
They're not, you know, difficult and complex things that I
think our education system often makes them out to be.
I think that students are kids, and kids who are
surviving the best way that they can, according to the
ways that their family have taught them, according to the
resources that they have available. I work with kids who
are in house I work with kids who you know
(10:34):
have been formally incarcerated. I work with students who you
know are working till one am two am every night
after school because their family needs money. Right, And so
when they're in the classroom with me, right, my only
job is to tell them thank you. And I think
a lot of people in teaching, especially nowadays, I think,
have this idea of like, oh, I have to go teach,
(10:55):
I have to go teach my kids.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I have to do this.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And I remember having a conversation with one of my
teams and she reframed it for me, and she said,
you know, like a lot of people say they have
to teach, but really it's that we get to teach.
Speaker 7 (11:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I get to walk into a classroom and I get
to work with my students, and I get to teach
and learn and love and laugh and experience a small
part of life for them and for me, but a
really formative interaction that I know is going to change
me and change them, because it does every time. They're
the reason why we go in Monday through Friday. Right,
we can't even take a day off of our kids.
(11:28):
Are My kids are texting me and calling me and
being like where are you.
Speaker 7 (11:33):
I mean, there are a lot of pressures in the classroom,
the grading systems, the kind of record keeping you have
to keep, but the students are the joy. And you
do have those students that are going to not like
what you are teaching, and we'll give you trouble. And
you know, I think that they're probably listening to you
and it was making a difference and sometimes we don't
(11:53):
see it at that time, but we'll see it later.
It is. I mean, I think as a teacher, you've
got to feel passion for teaching. You need to love teaching,
You need to teach from your heart. And the day
that that no longer can happen, then you don't belong
in a classroom.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I think it's like teaching is such a gift to
be given right to, Like, anybody can be a teacher.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I really do deeply believe that now should everybody be
a teacher?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Maybe not, that's a personal opinion, you feel me anybody
can be a teacher because I think teaching inherently is
about just cultivating and listening to youth and giving them
space to become the people that they want to be.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
And when we exist in a system.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That hasn't really existed in preserving their hearts and their souls,
and their spirits and their minds.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think it's even more radical to center that.
Speaker 7 (12:38):
Yes right.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Coming up on Latino Usay, Nadine Cordova and Tim Ernandez
dive into the parallels of their stories and talk about
what it takes to make changes in the public education system.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Stay with us nothing, why yes, Hey, we're back.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Before the break, we were listening to a conversation between
Nadine Cordovat and Tim Ernandez, two teachers who, almost three
decades apart, were fired after teaching Chicano history to their students.
Now they reflect on their shared struggles and talk about
(14:21):
what kind of hope they see for the future of
public education.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Here are Tim and Nadine once again.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
I was born and raised in vond New Mexico, and
that's right in the center of New Mexico, towards the east.
And I discovered later in my life that all the
communities around us were racist. That my brothers and sisters
would go to basketball games and maybe an hour away
in Fort Sumner, Corona, and there were colored water fountains
and the white water fountains. I grew up very isolated.
(14:52):
One is very small. It seems like there's no contact
with the outside world, and so I didn't know a
lot of things when I was growing up. I do
remember being very poor. I didn't know we were poor,
and I just really didn't see the connection with the
life I was living, the life my father was living
with farm workers are going through and the movement of
(15:13):
Sister cham is not till later in my life, which
is really sad. I was already, like, you know, twenty
seven when I started learning Chicano studies.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
No, it's real.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I mean, I think we're talking about the differences between
urban and rural context of education, right and Chiganismo. Really,
I think we're talking about like generational differences too, right,
Like I was raised by people who are Chiganos, who
taught me key philosophies and just understanding who I was.
I was born in Pueblo, and I grew up in
kinship family foster care, so I lived with a lot
(15:45):
of my different family members. When my biological parents couldn't
take care of me, my biological mother passed, so I
went to schools literally all over the place. I went
to eight schools before the seventh grade. We lived on
the north side of Denver, which is a really formative
and historic place for Chicano people.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
For Chicano community.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It was a huge part of the Chicano movement that
swept through in the nineteen sixties in Colorado. When I
was in high school, I wanted to be a part
of that, and I didn't get the chance to go
to our local public high school because my parents didn't
trust it because there were a lot of gangs and
there was a lot of violence, and so.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
My parents sent me to a small charter school.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So when I became a teacher, I knew I wanted
to go back to my community, but I knew I
wanted to teach at the public school, and I wanted
to do that for this specific reason that my community
has been extremely gentrified Nadine, and we've seen our community disappear.
The work that I now actively do in really activating
a lot of students towards their own identities, whether they're
(16:50):
Chicano or whatever were they want to ascribe themselves to
be right, was the same work that people gave to me.
And I think a lot about how a lot of
that is rooted to access and education and privilege because
learning your history is a privilege and politicizing yourself as
a privilege from that, right right.
Speaker 7 (17:10):
It wasn't until I learned later in life you know
who we were, how we came to be, that I
decided that I could not do that to the kids
that were in my classroom. They had to have some
knowledge to give them a framework. To me, I see,
knowing your history and being proud of your ancestors is
like your suit of armor.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So, Nadine, you went to the community that you were from,
and you taught in a really intimate environment, and so
I want you to walk me through maybe what was
that transition, What was that moment? At what point did
you begin to just very clearly make the decision of like,
we're not going to do this anymore because it's not working,
it's not our students are responding to it, it's not
what we need right now, and instead I'm going to
(17:52):
put forth what I know we actually need.
Speaker 7 (17:55):
When I went to Eastern New Mexico University, I took
my first cheko Ono history class and I was in
a special education program, and I remember a professor saying,
if you are not teaching relevant education, then you are
not teaching, and that is something that I carried with me,
but I didn't have that much information. I had taken
that the Chicano Humanities class so I had that one book.
(18:18):
So I would try to share as much information from
that one book. And there was you know, it wasn't
easy to find information. Just all of a sudden, I
would see an announcement that the Chicano civil rights movement
was coming out on PBS, coming up next on Chicano
the History of the Mexican American Civil Rights Movement, And
I'm saw all that. I recorded them on the other
big VCR tapes. It's okay, yeah, that's how old I am. Okay,
(18:43):
So I recorded all the Chicano civil rights movement. It
was a four part series, and I thought, I am
going to take this to the classroom. We are going
to you know, learn about it. We're going to write
about it. You know, we're going to I'm going to
expose my kids to this history.
Speaker 11 (18:56):
And I remember when I was showing the Cessar Travison
farm Worker's Movement, do you remember shooting like very sad,
very emotional, but a little nervous. And I knew that
it was going to be so different for them, and
I used to tell them, you know, I'm not telling
you that you're Mexican American.
Speaker 7 (19:14):
I'm not telling you you're Chicano. I'm telling you whatever
you call yourself, if you call yourself Spanish, Chicano, Latino, whatever,
this is information that applies to all of us.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I hear what you're saying, and I know where that
comes from.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
For me, I poured everything into my kids, and I
sought information, and I sought community, and I brought people in.
I think it's it's really beautiful to hear you express
a similar sentiment that you didn't do it alone either, right.
It was kind of a community of folks giving your
resources and information and structures and frameworks that have historically
worked for our communities, right, Like, I think that that's
(19:46):
really formative, And I'm really curious, how did that feel
for you? How did it feel practicing those things with
students for the first time.
Speaker 7 (19:56):
I was so passionate about about what I was doing.
I felt such a passion. It was what they called it,
the community members and the lawyers, is that my sister
and I were over zealous, over zealous, But I think
all teachers should be over zealous, right, be excited about teaching.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
She oh say that.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
Yeah, so my students, I'd learned all these things. I
read about a group called Mitcha in Las Vegas, New Mexico.
So I told my students about this group that they
were learning about their history and if they did community service.
I asked them if they would like to start a
group like that, and they were so excited. They chose officers.
They had their plan. They were going to read to
the young, they were going to put up dominadias, they
(20:33):
were going to go clean the cemetery. They just wanted
to do all this community service. They were just so
pumped and it was just so beautiful to see that.
And then when we came started the school year, I
believe it was in ninety seven, the officers got up
to do a presentation on Mitcha. They wanted to include
more students. They told them they were going to do
they were going to read books, they were gonna get points.
(20:54):
So what happened is that one of my officers she
as they were going to sit down, you let out
of everyone and usu a viva chicando. You could have
heard a pin dro And that's what started the attack
on my sister and I.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I don't know, I think a lot about how like
it wasn't anything that you openly and doctrinated the kid, right, Like,
we're in this weird kind of political state of education
where people don't believe that kids know it's best for themselves, right,
So like for kids to respond to that and then
to like embody that right and to ultimately step into
it and say right and to shout it, it comes
(21:33):
like at a that's a very clear challenge to a
system that might not be working for students, right.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
I mean, we're not going to change everybody, but we
are going to change some of those.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Students, even if it's one.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
Yes, even if it's one I.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Think that we think that we know what's best for kids,
when really they know, right.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Like.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I also facilitated met chat club, right, and that's one
of the reasons I was fired, right Like, And if
kids are in a club, right and they're all actively
showing up after school, I mean we did all kinds
of stuff, Like kids were going hungry, so we raised
money in the community and had a community fridge. We like,
we facilitated the club based upon what the students said
that they wanted, whether that was political or material or whatever. Right, like,
(22:15):
and giving students agency like that is radical, right in
an education system that is much more interested in clipping
their wings right than teaching.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Them how to fly.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I don't know, man, I get kind of emotional thinking
about how everybody believes that education needs to be this apolitical,
like neutral thing, and here you came and you said, hey, actually, like,
according to my students' needs, according to the communities that
we live in, according to the ways that our community
is trying to lead us, this is actually the politics.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
That we need, right, And.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I'm curious, like, what are you what are your thoughts
on you know, the political things that you did in
the classroom.
Speaker 7 (22:56):
Well, I I remember that I was being attacked once
once my one student let up that via Chicano. You know,
they started really you know, watching me and not agreeing
with what I was doing and not wanting me to
do the Metro group. But no matter what they told me,
I kept on. I was under attack, but I kept
on and what I believed in. And I remember that
(23:19):
at that time too, a Newsweek magazine article came out
about the Latino March on Washington, and I think My
students were like eighth grade. They read the article and
they had to put what they thought about this, and
you know why were they marching? And you know why
it was important? And the essays that they wrote were beautiful.
Robert Rodriguez wrote in there that a march is a
(23:40):
prayer in motion, and some of the students would put
that in the writing. I thought, Wow, this is amazing,
and I decided that I was going to take some
students to Washington. And I took five students to Washington
dec for the march. Wow, and that really did not
sit well with the school board.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
With the top.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
I just can't understand why. That was just an unbelievable experience. Yeah,
but it wasn't that much longer. I believe it was
in March that they suspended us.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
What was it like the day that you were placed
on administrative leave?
Speaker 7 (24:16):
It was very strange. I wasn't quite sure what to expect.
But I had already been speaking to my ACLU attornings
how they wanted to shut us down, how they didn't
want us to do the Mitcha and I had already
started to collect information because I believe, you know, I
really thought they were going to fire me, and they did.
I knew I needed everything documented because they were going
to deny what they told me. And I would send
(24:38):
the superintendent letter and I would ask, can I announce
my MITTA meetings on the intercom? Can I send out flyers?
Can we put up posters and everything? He said no, no, no, no, no,
he said no. But guess what they could announce catechism.
They could have announced baby showers on the intercom. But
I couldn't announce my group on the intercom or could
have posters. They were just just attacking it, of course,
(25:00):
and we tried to hang on for as much as possible.
But during the Christmas break, the Custodian told us they
did this. They were dropped off there. They went into
our classrooms to search because see they were accusing us
of teaching racism, of teaching militancy, of teaching them to
forget they were American. First they were making all these accusations,
(25:21):
but then they had to go into the classroom too,
so that they could find something to prove, to prove
that we were doing these things. And they could find nothing.
They found the Chicano Studies poster termed the Chicano Movement
and it's got graduates, it's got families, it's got farm workers,
it's a beautiful postion. At the bottom, it's got like
a silhouette of graduates with the diploma. So they videotaped
that and they took that out during depositions. They were
(25:43):
deposing my sister and they asked her, what is this.
You know this poster can tell us somebody. Yeah, they
got graduates and got the vidic and the Guadalupitz got
farm workers. And she went on and talked about the
poster and the attorney said, and what is that silhouette
at the bottom, And she said, it's the graduate it's
holding their diploma. And he says what and he zoomed
(26:04):
in the VCR tape and there's the graduates coming in
with the diploma. They've really thought that silhouette had weapons,
so that it was whips that they were holding in
their hair. That's how crazy they got with their accusations.
And so when she said it was the graduates and
he zumed it, then he turned off the TV and
we never heard about that poster again.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Can I ask a real quick question.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I know that you went through this and it was
really hard and emotional. How was it going through it
with your sister?
Speaker 7 (26:37):
Yeah, that was very helpful. Yeah, I mean I think
that's what kept us strong. I mean, not only being
proud of who we were as women, as chi ganas
being together and traveling together and speaking together. It was Yeah,
it made it much easier. It would have been really
lonely to do this alone. So I can imagine. I
mean for you, I.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Think it's really powerful to hear you talk about that.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
When I think about why that you got movement worked, right,
I think there's you and I both know there's a
lot of failures of that.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You kinta movement too, But when I think about what worked.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
That's what I think about is the most transformative part
is that's what it was about. It was about people
doing things together. That's all it was.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
It was.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
It was gompetinos in the fields talking to each other
and deciding that they wanted to be paid fairly. It
was Chicano's in San Luis and these other places in
Tierra Maria, right, and getting together and doing something together,
whether it's taking back land or fighting for a fair
contract or fighting for better schools. Even when we think
about key philosophies, right, that really create the foundation of
(27:36):
that chkinda movement. All it is is it's an expression
of who we are together. I think it's really formative
to hear you kind of talk about that, because although
I do think I'm going through this kind of by myself,
and you know, I wish tell your sister if she
wants to come help out.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
She welcome to you.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Feel me, I think it's something that I'm still coming
to terms with and I'll have to really figure out
for myself. But it is really refreshing to hear how
integral community was to the experience that you had. I
don't know, I think a lot about what happened to me, Nadine,
and it makes me really emotional because I hearing what
happened to you and hearing that you're on the other
(28:11):
side of things from what you experienced and the legal
battles that you went through. It's wild to hear that.
You know, we didn't talk before all this, right, like
you weren't coaching me throughout the entire year, but we
ended up in the same place for the same reasons, right, right,
Because the system doesn't work. It's not you, it's not me.
(28:34):
I ultimately was placed on administratively for my school district
because I didn't stay in my place if I started
speaking out about it.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I went to the press. I said, hey, here's what
happened to me.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I'm not sure what we can do about it, but
I do think that you and I both know, Nadine,
that we're not the first, nor the last, nor the
only Chicano Black, Indigenous Asian teachers who are forced.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Out of the classroom.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Right when I was fired, there were student actions that
developed and took place.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Our METROC club began organizing protests.
Speaker 7 (29:03):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
When I came back, Natine that next week, there was
already a week of student action.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Kids had it planned.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
They did an art demonstration on Monday where they printed
out four thousand of these wanted posters where they put
their own face and it said wanted teachers who look
like me.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
Oh wow, well that is little awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
And they threw them off the balcony.
Speaker 7 (29:24):
And like goodness.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And I was not allowed to communicate with them.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I was not helping them organize. I was not given
any information.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I was just hearing from other teachers who were like,
did you know this is happening? And I was like, well,
I'm not in the loop with anything.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
And on that Friday, I knew the walkout was happening.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
My students walked out at the beginning of the day,
right when school started, and hundreds of students went to
the park across the street from our school. And I
was sent to a meeting for my first period and
they put it on the other side of the building
so that I couldn't see the kids from the window.
And when I was walking to my second period class,
students had been out there for about forty five minutes chanting.
(30:13):
As I was walking back, I remember I was walking
towards my room and I saw outside and I saw
the students for the first time, and there were hundreds
of them and they were outside in the park. And
I had no intention of walking out. My legal counsel
(30:35):
had advised, please don't walk out. You will not be
able to get a job. Do not walk out. Do
not walk out, and I had told them that I
wasn't going to. But at that moment, I got a
phone call from Jasmine Gandharia, who is a really really
formative mentor of mine I met when I was student teaching.
She said, Hey, I just got a phone call from
doctor five gone, and she said that you have to
(30:58):
walk out.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
We have to do this.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
And she's like, I'm here, I'm at the protest, and
I think that this.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Is something that you really need to listen to.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
And so I walked into my classroom and I said,
I'm leaving.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And so I walked out and.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I met my students on the corner of Federal at Spear,
in the middle of the street, and we marched.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Immediately.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
When I got back to the school, right they put
me on administrative leave. I was escorted out by security
and I was told like I would not be able
to be on school property and all these other things.
And so it became really formative to me, and more importantly,
I think really speaks to your point that, like, I
was not placed on administrative leave for not servicing my kids.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
I don't know if a tim if I told you this,
but for my firing. I'm let me go back a
little bit. And this is how backwards they were in Vaughan.
Is that the mayor of the town he actually called
the National Guard on this be there for the firing.
Oh man, he just whipped it. The town like into
a frenzy because I was suspended in March and then
we got fired in July. And I remember that we
(32:41):
our attorneys advised us not to be at that hearing,
you know, when they were going to decide if they
were going to fire us. And from Albuquerque they brought
a bus. The director of Chicano Studies and also the
leader of the Sisar Chavis Foundation, and a preacher and
professors and all kinds of people came down for our
firing just and they did a prayer circle and they
(33:02):
did you know, they were there, but we did. We
weren't there to see it, oh man. And I thought
that was beautiful too, that they were there to support
our kids. But they had to come from Albuquerque, and
I know some parents were there, but I think in
the small town like one, they were kind of like
kind of scared of what was going on, and they
just didn't understand, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Of course, yeah, the majority.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Of the community had their children in our classrooms and
all that, and they trusted us, but they just didn't
understand why all this was going on. And I don't
think they really knew what to do.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
But I will say what stands out is I mean,
like I think about your match O club. Hearing the
ways that you taught students about who they were, and
I deeply believe right now, right like it's a huge
part of my life. But to hear the world that
we have in the state of education for our students
is not working, is not performing in the way that
(33:55):
we need to for our students. So to hear the
similarities in what we're doing and how we both openly
challenged and were fearless in the ways that we confronted
a system that is not yet ready to change and
become what it needs to be for our students, it's
an affirmation to me that.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
We have to be on the right path.
Speaker 7 (34:16):
And I think about how powerful these materials is poetry,
the literature, the stories are to our students. I remember
when my Mitcha students met with the school board members
and the superintendent because you know, they wanted to know
why they so, you know, it was important to learn this.
And I remember I had one one metcha member. He
was a young student. I'm not going to mention names,
(34:37):
but he he told him it's really important for us
to learn this, and he was quoting the quirky Gonzales
poem do you know, he said, we cry the same,
we laughed the same.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
News, you the same.
Speaker 7 (34:49):
Yeah, and for that one student, you know, it was
important to have this, but we got ripped out, and
I wonder how it hurt. There's some of our.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Students think about that almost every day. I mean, I
hear from my Norse students every week. They call me,
they text me still right like we're still in good communication.
I talk to them about what their school and experiences
are like now, and it's really hard and we cry
every time.
Speaker 7 (35:15):
So what are you going to do? Tim, Are you
really going to fight to go back? Because what's going
to happen with the connections you've made at your new school.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Role. Eventually, I would like to go back to North
High School.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
And I'm not sure at what rate.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I'm not sure if it's a couple of years, right,
I'm not sure if it's at the end of my life, right.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
But I do think.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I want to be able to experience walking back into
that school and telling my students that if we fight
for the right thing, we will win. When we fight,
we will win one hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
It's not a question.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I think I would like to go back to North
High School eventually, and I'd like to go back and
really just hug my students.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And tell them how much I miss them, and tell.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Them that even though it's really hard, that I know
that it's going to be worth it.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
I think that I think that'd be good because you
have a large community support and a large student support
for me. Because it was such a small community that
it was just it would have been a hostile environment.
Community members that had made it look so scary, and
I just felt like it was going to be a
hostile environment for me and my sons, and I just
(36:26):
I couldn't go back. I could have gone back, that
was part of the settlement, but I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I'm in litigation with Denver Public Schools right now, and
to hear that even even if I don't go back
to so North High School, that it's still worth it,
I think is really grounding. I think it makes me
feel very just really affirmed. I think it's probably one
of the clearest messages I hope I've received it a
long time. To be honest with you, Thank you so
(36:52):
much for speaking with me.
Speaker 7 (36:53):
Nadine welcome.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I know that if we fight, we will win. But
to talk to somebody who has openly fought in the
same ways that I I'm planning on fighting, It's just
it's really powerful. I don't think I'm ever going to
forget this conversation with you.
Speaker 7 (37:07):
I'm never going to forget the conversation with you, Tim,
because you inspire me and you give me so much
hope for our future and for our young people. Because
there's not teachers like you, then I have no hope.
What I believe is that we continue marching, we continue speaking,
and we cannot back down.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Every teacher has a story of this, either happened to them,
or it happened to a black or brown teacher that
they knew. It makes me feel kind of daunted sometimes
that we're trying to change the system, and it also
makes me feel very affirmed that in no way am I.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Going to have to do this alone or by myself.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I'm twenty five years old, right like, I've got a
lot of years of being a teacher left.
Speaker 7 (37:47):
Oh that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I'm really excited for that.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
And I know that what happened to me was really
painful and really hard, but I'm also very glad that
it happened publicly, because the next time a school in
Denver Public Schools fires a black, brown teacher without a
good reason, I hope that they think twice.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
I hope that they have to. I just want to
thank you so much for choosing to fight in a
way that gives me hope.
Speaker 7 (38:10):
I thank you too for you know, missing to your
amazing and I'm so proud you know that we have
gone to know each other and that we know abody
to the story and your story continues, and I'm just
really very proud of what you've done and what your
students did, and it just gives me a lot of hope.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
We reached out to officials at North High School and
the Denver Public Schools District in Colorado requesting a comment
on Tim's dismissal last year, but they didn't respond. Coming
up on Latino US say we hear from two of
Nate Deane's and Tim's former students, stay with us, not
(38:54):
by yes, Hey, we're back. Before the break, we heard
(39:51):
the story of Nadine Cordova and Tim Ernandez to teachers
from different generations and different states who each got fired
because they taught Chicano history throughout their conversation. We heard
how Nadine and Tim both believe in centering the experiences
of their students in their classrooms and how important it
(40:13):
is to listen to student voices, so we wanted to
do the same. We're gonna hear now from Nadine's former
student Regina Luna and Tim's student Nayelli Lopez.
Speaker 12 (40:30):
My name is Niellie Lopez. I'm fifteen years old, a
sophomore in Denver North High School.
Speaker 9 (40:37):
My name is Regina Luna. I'm forty three years old.
I live in Edgewood, New Mexico.
Speaker 12 (40:43):
So the first time I met Tim Well, mister Hernandez,
I like the coem was like a reopening of West
High School. I remember I barely started my freshman year.
I was the only North student there. I remember feeling
a little out of place. The next thing you see
is Tim and like a group of students and another
(41:03):
teacher come in and they have this big old banner
and it says from North to West Chicano Power. Chick
got next Power. I thought that was like the coolest
thing ever. And it's like, oh my god, he's a
teacher at North. I want him to be my teacher.
Speaker 9 (41:19):
The first time that I met Nadine I was an elementary.
I mean we always knew them, her and her sister,
but the first time I really really interacted with her
was probably in fifth grade, so I was maybe about
ten or so. It was probably about nineteen eighty eight
eighty nine. And then I had them off and on
(41:41):
until I was a senior, which was in nineteen ninety seven.
They were a strong influence on us right from the beginning.
They just they were different, they did things different.
Speaker 12 (41:55):
I remember like the first time walking into his classroom,
I instantly felt at home. I saw LIKEAVO hung up.
I saw a big old poster of like as the calendar.
I saw like the UfW flag that was hung and
I was like, I've never ever seen that in a
school setting.
Speaker 9 (42:16):
What I remember most about being in Nadine's class was
learning a lot of useful things that we would take
with us in everyday life. In her class, she was
teaching us a lot of how to deal with emotions,
how to deal with life in general, how to deal
with situations that it would arise.
Speaker 12 (42:35):
Mister Hernandez was definitely the youngest teacher that I've had,
and a lot of people think that's not that important,
but it is because, especially when you're in high school,
you can connect with your teacher a lot better. Last year,
I used to always wait after school and we had
a community fridge. After school, all the students were hungry,
(42:57):
especially me. I was really hungry, so I would go
to his classroom right when the bell rang and I
would grab a snack and sit down and I would
tell him about my day and just use that space
to just decompress and go over my day.
Speaker 9 (43:12):
I was always the type of person that was just
interested in doing something different. So when the Mecha club
came about, it was like, oh, wow, what's this. You know,
this is actually something different. We've never heard of this before.
Speaker 12 (43:28):
I was in Metcha last year. So Mecha stands for
movie Mintos to Chicanolan in English. It means Chicano student
Movement of Aslan. Aslan being like the land, the homeland
of the Aztecs, the Michika before they migrated down to
Mexico will present day Mexico.
Speaker 9 (43:50):
We hear about this club that we could start that
was actually about our culture, about our race, which at
that time we didn't really know of anything like that,
as you know, especially where we live. So just being
a part of that club when it first started and
then reading more about our culture, I mean, it felt good.
It felt you know, like, why don't we know more
(44:12):
about this? When you have a teacher bringing in this
organization and starting this club, and you have all your
peers around you wanting to learn the same thing and
wanting to know the same thing, it hits different. It's like, Okay, well,
you know, I'm gonna actually learn about myself with my peers,
(44:32):
with my friends, and I'm gonna be able to talk
to people my age about how I feel and about
what I think. I feel like I probably gained more
confidence in myself I feel I did.
Speaker 12 (44:48):
I mean, I was already so shocked and like excited
that there was a Metcha at my high school. So
just like stepping into his class and meeting him was very,
very empowering.
Speaker 9 (45:00):
When Nadine was starting to face dismissal, I remember feeling
the tension. Not only did I feel tension from being
in that classroom around that time, but just being in
the school in general. Nothing really scared Nadine and Patsy.
It seemed at the time, it just seemed like they
were fearless. They continued to teach us how they started
(45:21):
at the beginning of the year, and it almost felt like, maybe,
you know, we were doing something wrong, like we're not
supposed to be learning this.
Speaker 12 (45:31):
That day, we we knew that mister Nandez was going
to hear news about his interview before about coming back
to work at North the next year, so me and
another student went to his classroom after school.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
He had to go.
Speaker 12 (45:48):
Into the meeting, which was like directly behind his classroom.
We wanted to wait in the classroom just to hear
the news and hopefully he was good news and we
can celebrate with him. But when he went to the meeting,
what was five minutes, felt like thirty seconds. Next thing
you know, he comes through the door. The only word
(46:11):
he says is no, and then he walked out again
and started taking everything down from the walls. I wasn't disbelieve.
I couldn't believe that our school would do that to us,
not just to him, but to the students, to our community.
I got my backpack and I left the classroom and
(46:38):
I went.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
To my mom's car. I was so upset, I just cried.
Speaker 12 (46:43):
I came back to school the next day. I was
just like bummed out. I didn't want to do anything.
I wouldn't feel productive, I didn't feel motivated. And that
was the same for a lot of other students, Like
he wasn't just a great form of representation for a student,
but also he was a teacher that we could trust,
(47:04):
and kids would get up every morning the only reason
they were excited to go to school was because of
him in his classroom.
Speaker 9 (47:13):
When I learned that she was being dismissed, I felt
pretty confused. I was going through a lot at that time.
I was pregnant with my first child. I was a
senior in high school. Nadine, you know, she would help
me out a lot. She was always there for me
to talk to. When she got dismissed, I was like,
I just don't get it. I don't understand why this
(47:33):
is happening.
Speaker 12 (47:42):
My friends were in class. It was his LATINX literature class.
When they walked into an empty classroom, and most of all,
when they saw that their teacher was not there, they
all walked out of his classroom. I remember running into
to my cousin who was.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
In this class.
Speaker 12 (48:02):
She was like, where's mister Hernandez, Like where's our teacher?
She was, She looked like she was very upset. She
was trying to ask like this counselor where's our teacher.
He's like, oh, I mean, I don't know, but you
have to go back to class. Can I get you anything?
Do you need anything? And she goes, yeah, mister Hernandez.
(48:23):
I think that was like a very funny but true moment.
Speaker 9 (48:27):
We didn't know, you know, how to really speak up
and stand up for them like we probably should have,
but it's a small town and you just really don't
want that retaliation.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
You know.
Speaker 9 (48:38):
Whenever I did finally graduate high school, I had my baby.
She was like three months old. I ended up being Solidatorian.
When I was doing my solidatory speech, I was told
not to mention Nadine and Patsy, and of course, you know,
I went up and did my speech and mentioned them anyway,
which I got a few dirty looks for. I got
some cheers too, you know, there was cheers that I
(49:00):
actually mentioned them.
Speaker 12 (49:06):
We started to organize. We met up at my friend's
house just like four of us, five of us, and
we just started talking about next steps. And we were
talking about, Okay, when are we going to walk out.
We know we're gonna walk out for sure. What are
we gonna do? Wednesday was a sit in. Thursday we
threw off flyers from the balcony, and Friday we walked
(49:29):
out the flyers that we made it was a picture
of like students, So we got like a bunch of
students take a picture of themselves and like kind of
make them look like they were in a mugshot, and
it said wanted teachers that look like us. We slide
the flyers under the doors and like teachers are supported,
would hang them up. We threw off the flyers from
(49:53):
the balcony and we did a chant, specifically the Chicano
Power Chant. It was a call and response chance, so
the call is Chicano and then people would spawn powered.
Speaker 9 (50:09):
I identify as Chikana definitely. To me, being at Chikana, it's
not just about where my ancestors were from. It's who
I am, It's how I was raised, it's our traditions,
it's our culture, it's how we live every day. It's
kind of makes you feel more empowered, it really does,
you know, And it's kind of a strong word to
use because people are afraid of people being empowered.
Speaker 12 (50:33):
I grew up around some people from the Chikana movement.
When I saw that being represented at North I felt
like way more empowered and I finally knew what it
truly meant to be Chikana. I mean, my dad would
always say what he says, like to be Chicana means
(50:56):
to struggle, and I kind of understood that more and
I definitely identified myself more as a Chikana.
Speaker 9 (51:04):
I think what I learned from Nadine does impact my
life today. I said this in a Facebook post when
I was acknowledging them one day. I can't even begin
to appreciate and acknowledge all our heroes for all these movements.
I can't begin to acknowledge them if I don't think
Nadine and Patsy first, because they're the ones that really
(51:27):
started it for me. It's like, anytime I think about
how proud I am of who I am, I go
back to them.
Speaker 12 (51:34):
I Mean, not only is mister Hernandez just a great teacher,
but he's a really great mentor. He was one of
the few teachers that truly represented me and that truly
represents the North Side. The school doesn't feel the same,
so I'm definitely still healing, and the person that I
went to for everything isn't at school, and I don't
(51:57):
have a classroom where I feel like I truly belong,
And I know it's crazy. It's almost been a year
now that i'm thinking about it. It's almost been a year,
and I'm still feeling a little out of place at
school after everything that happened.
Speaker 9 (52:14):
I think the last time I talked to Nadine and
Patsy was it's probably been a few months. I didn't
believe it was just a conversation about how we're doing,
how my son's doing, how our families are doing. But
I remember feeling really good to know that my teachers
since I was in great school, still followed me and
my life to this day now that I'm forty three
(52:37):
years old. We don't talk often, but when we do talk,
we still have that strong connection. They're just genuine, caring people.
Speaker 12 (52:47):
The biggest lesson mister Hernandez taught me is probably activism
is not a game of passion, but a game of patience.
And that phrase just stuck with me. Even if you
have all the passion in the world and it drives you,
it's not the thing that's going to get you to
(53:07):
what you want, but you have to be patient and
it takes a long time. We're not going to see
big change overnight. It's baby steps. Even if we just
make a little progress, that's still a victory.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
That was Regina Luna and Nielli Lopez. This episode was
(53:51):
produced by Victories Trada and Elizabeth Lenthal Dorris. It was
edited by Daisy Contreras and mixed by Julia Caruso JJ Grubin.
The Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Grusado, Marta Martinez,
Mike Sargent, Renaldo Leanos Junior, Patricia Sulbaran and Julia Rocha.
Speaker 5 (54:10):
With help from Raoul Berees.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Our editorial director is Fernandes Santos. Our director of Engineering
is Stephanie Lebau. Our associate engineer is gabriel A Byez.
Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our theme music was
composed by Sanguet Roubinos. I'm your host and executive producer
Mariango Hoosa. Join us on our next episode and in
the meantime, look for us on social media, act Latinousa
(54:32):
dot org and remember not Demayes.
Speaker 13 (54:35):
Joao Latino USA is made possible in part by the
Annie Casey Foundation. Creates a brighter future for the nation's
children by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and transforming
communities Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden and funding for Latino
(54:59):
You USA is Coverage of a culture of health is
made possible in part by a grant from the Robert
Wood Johnson Foundation.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Actually, this is like a fun fact.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
I was born on February twenty fifth, nineteen ninety seven,
and three days later Fatsy and Nadine were on administrative leaves.
So I don't know like you feel me, Like I
really feel old now I'm twenty four, really feel old,
deaf and so
Speaker 7 (55:26):
Not hilarious.
I view it as very colonial, the idea that everybody
needs to be able to do this by this time,
so that way everybody can bablah I understand the philosophy.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Right, we want our children to be prepared.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
But if we're not actively investing in our students being
prepared for the actual condition in life that they're going
to live, then we're just giving them all these tools
in the skill set and nothing to hang it on,
nothing to apply, nothing that actually really matters.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
From Futromedia and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria Inojosa
today teaching Chicano history now and then two Chicano educators
in conversation more than twenty five years ago, Nadine Cordova,
(00:49):
along with her sister Patsy, made history.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
For years, they were considered outstanding teachers at the Tiny
School in vond New Mexico, until they were suspended for
refusing to teach the prescribed curriculum. More specifically, they didn't
want the sisters to teach Chicano history.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
This is a news clip from a local Albuquerque television
station in nineteen ninety nine. Although they later became known
for teaching Chicano history, Nadine and Patsy only learned about
the movement as adults.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
They read about the struggles.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Mexican Americans faced and the fight for labor rights, land
and a political identity in the United States during the
nineteen sixties and early seventies. The Chicano Movement, as it's
called changed how Patsy and Nadine thought about themselves and
(01:43):
their history, and both teachers wanted to share that with
their students too.
Speaker 6 (01:48):
I grew up being very ashamed of who I was,
being a Mexican American or at Chicana identify as at Chicana,
and I refused at that point to do to my
students what had been done to me in the public system.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Nadine, did you feel the same way.
Speaker 7 (02:02):
I feel that way. I feel like our language, our history,
and our culture that's our foundation. And without our foundation,
you know, we just cannot we cannot succeed.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
After that, they were fired. The school administration claimed that
the Court of Us Sisters, especially Nadine, we're teaching quote
racial intolerance and promoting quote a militant attitude in their students.
Looking back, almost three decades later, Nadine still remembers what
a difficult experience.
Speaker 7 (02:34):
That was all the accusations and all the hateful things
they say about you when you know you're doing a
good job and you know you've given so much because
teachers give so much, and then to be treated like that,
it's not easy.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Still, the court of our sisters fought back. They filed
a lawsuit against the school district, and eventually they want
more than a half a million dollar out of court
settlement and the option to be reinstated to their jobs.
Nadine and Patsy both declined to go back, but they
didn't stop teaching. They moved to Albuquerque and recently retired
(03:10):
after a long career as public school teachers. But this
is not a story that has stayed in the past.
Educators who choose to teach as Nadine and her sister
did are still facing consequences. Last year, in Denver, Colorado,
Tim Hernandez went through something similar. His contract wasn't renewed
(03:32):
at North High School after teaching Chicano history and literature
to his students.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I didn't just want to teach English. I have my
degree in English, right, but I wanted.
Speaker 8 (03:42):
To teach ethnic studies, and I wanted to teach Latino literature,
to go right back to my community and give an
educational experience that's rooted in pride and empowerment that I
never got in school, and more importantly, that kids today
are still not getting in school.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So we asked Tim and Nadine more than four hundred
miles apart, if they wanted to meet virtually to talk
about their shared experiences.
Speaker 7 (04:13):
Hello, my friend, Hey, how are you mean?
Speaker 9 (04:15):
Guy?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It's so good to see you here from you.
Speaker 7 (04:17):
So good to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Also, after hearing about each other's stories, they had an
instant connection and began corresponding.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
I've been talking to my sons about you, Duah.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I've been talking to my kids about you. I've been
talking about all kinds. I've been so hyped for this.
Speaker 7 (04:34):
Oh that's great. That's great.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Today, on our show, Tim and Nadine share why Chicano
history is still relevant for kids, and they reflect on
the struggles they've faced and the lessons they've learned. Here
are Nadine Cordova and Tim Ernandez in conversation.
Speaker 7 (05:00):
The way I see the system loves the teachers that
stay in their place, don't make any waves, don't create
any issues or don't ask for too much. And I
just don't think that's fair. It's not fair to our
students because it seems like teachers, we should teach from
our heart and we should be giving them knowledge that
it's for their heart and for their soul.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I mean, like to be blunt with you, Nadine, like,
that's why I was placed on administratively right, Like, I
was told I wouldn't be returning to North High School
they openly at a five minute meeting. After teaching there
for a year and a half, they said, Hey, you're
not coming back next year.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 7 (05:33):
Wow. The school that I worked at was mostly immigrant students,
and I remember I was taking some I was taking
some classes for ESL and I don't remember exactly where
I was, you know, learning like all these quotes from
the Mexican Revolution and Milliano Zapata and I love the quota.
You know, I'd rather die on my feet than live
on my Kneesa. So my husband's from Chiwuahu, and I
(05:54):
was so excited. I you know, I'm going to do
all these quotes.
Speaker 10 (05:57):
I'm going to do this about Milliano Sapata and there
because you know he had he experienced all the racism,
and h for his whole life experienced the racism.
Speaker 7 (06:07):
He told me they were going to fire me, and
I thought I had the role. Would they fire me?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh wow? I started.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
My first day in North High School was in January
twenty twenty one, and I was so excited. I grew
up a couple of blocks down the street, and so
I was all excited and jazzed up that I got
there and the kids were like half asleep, and I
was like, oh man, this is everything I did my
degree for, right, right exactly?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
What about you, Emiga?
Speaker 7 (06:35):
I think when I first started teaching, because I decided
to go into special education and just regular education, I
think I did a lot of the traditional things. You
know what most teachers do, you know, the textbooks and
this and that. It took a long time for me
to feel comfortable when I started including more topics that
were relevant, and I would get response from students in
(06:58):
the writing, how creative, how passionate they were about their
writing and what they were doing, and how involved they were.
I think that is when I really got into the
group of how I wanted to teach and what kind
of teacher I wanted to be and totally non traditional,
and that's what creates problems in the you know, with
Principles and you're totally non traditional, they really expect you
to be on this chapter of the literature book by
(07:21):
this time of the year. And you know, the literature
books are crazy. My my sister, she taught high school English,
and she would have topics like my life as the
Dallas Cowboy cheerleader, my life is a shoe, you know,
that kind of thing, when there were so many things
going on in their world that would make it much
more relevant for them to write about it. So that's
(07:42):
why we chose to be non traditional. Yeah, and that
is something that they just are not comfortable with and that.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
They're not ready for.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Last year, when I was at North, I was like
every week I would have to justify what I was
teaching and why we were teaching this, and there were
so many caveats and so many perspectives that people wanted
to insert into what I was teaching. We have this
hyper standardization and standards and testing and all these things.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
It's it's bad so many politics involved. You know, the
Principles is superintendent. They all have their own ideas as
school boards, and then at the state level, you know,
they want to put this curriculum in and this, you know,
more testing, and then now in the higher levels, it
is that all these people that know nothing about education,
about being in the classroom, no better than us, everybody
can do better than us. And it's just it just
(08:30):
becomes too political, too much pressure. It's not wanting our creativity.
All they want is for you to fit their little standards,
prove that you're doing this. It's it's just very stressful.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I think like it becomes really transactional. And because we
view teaching as transactional, I one time had a conversation
with a parent who disagreed with what I was teaching,
and they said, oh, well, this is what I think
my students should be taught, right, this is.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
What I think.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And I remember having like a very clear moment with
the parent and empathetically right, like I was not interested
in making them feel bad, but I said, look like
your perspective on your child's education matters to me, and
it will never matter more than your child's perspective on
their education, right, because I think actually your students probably
know what they need more than you and I both do.
(09:18):
Right that right, more than even sometimes I do. And
I think when we have an education system that is
really based upon adult opinions rather than student experiences, right
we yes, of course, we're creating something that our students
don't respond to more often than not.
Speaker 7 (09:34):
Exactly. I remember I used to in my classes. I
would ask them, what are the topics that you were
interested in that are relevant to you, Like in our
community there was a lar teen pregnancy and drugs and
alcohol and violence, and we would develop units around that.
I'd find as many matures as I could find, and
we would develop units around whatever interested them, so they
(09:57):
bought into their curriculum. I love teaching.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Well, and I think it's really how teaching is supposed
to work, right, Like learning is supposed to It's not
supposed to be transactional, because learning is relational.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Students are not the hard part.
Speaker 7 (10:10):
Of teaching, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
They're not, you know, difficult and complex things that I
think our education system often makes them out to be.
I think that students are kids, and kids who are
surviving the best way that they can, according to the
ways that their family have taught them, according to the
resources that they have available. I work with kids who
are in house I work with kids who you know
(10:34):
have been formally incarcerated. I work with students who you
know are working till one am two am every night
after school because their family needs money. Right, And so
when they're in the classroom with me, right, my only
job is to tell them thank you. And I think
a lot of people in teaching, especially nowadays, I think,
have this idea of like, oh, I have to go teach,
(10:55):
I have to go teach my kids.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I have to do this.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And I remember having a conversation with one of my
teams and she reframed it for me, and she said,
you know, like a lot of people say they have
to teach, but really it's that we get to teach.
Speaker 7 (11:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I get to walk into a classroom and I get
to work with my students, and I get to teach
and learn and love and laugh and experience a small
part of life for them and for me, but a
really formative interaction that I know is going to change
me and change them, because it does every time. They're
the reason why we go in Monday through Friday. Right,
we can't even take a day off of our kids.
(11:28):
Are My kids are texting me and calling me and
being like where are you.
Speaker 7 (11:33):
I mean, there are a lot of pressures in the classroom,
the grading systems, the kind of record keeping you have
to keep, but the students are the joy. And you
do have those students that are going to not like
what you are teaching, and we'll give you trouble. And
you know, I think that they're probably listening to you
and it was making a difference and sometimes we don't
(11:53):
see it at that time, but we'll see it later.
It is. I mean, I think as a teacher, you've
got to feel passion for teaching. You need to love teaching,
You need to teach from your heart. And the day
that that no longer can happen, then you don't belong
in a classroom.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I think it's like teaching is such a gift to
be given right to, Like, anybody can be a teacher.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I really do deeply believe that now should everybody be
a teacher?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Maybe not, that's a personal opinion, you feel me anybody
can be a teacher because I think teaching inherently is
about just cultivating and listening to youth and giving them
space to become the people that they want to be.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
And when we exist in a system.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That hasn't really existed in preserving their hearts and their souls,
and their spirits and their minds.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think it's even more radical to center that.
Speaker 7 (12:38):
Yes right.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Coming up on Latino Usay, Nadine Cordova and Tim Ernandez
dive into the parallels of their stories and talk about
what it takes to make changes in the public education system.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Stay with us nothing, why yes, Hey, we're back.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Before the break, we were listening to a conversation between
Nadine Cordovat and Tim Ernandez, two teachers who, almost three
decades apart, were fired after teaching Chicano history to their students.
Now they reflect on their shared struggles and talk about
(14:21):
what kind of hope they see for the future of
public education.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Here are Tim and Nadine once again.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
I was born and raised in vond New Mexico, and
that's right in the center of New Mexico, towards the east.
And I discovered later in my life that all the
communities around us were racist. That my brothers and sisters
would go to basketball games and maybe an hour away
in Fort Sumner, Corona, and there were colored water fountains
and the white water fountains. I grew up very isolated.
(14:52):
One is very small. It seems like there's no contact
with the outside world, and so I didn't know a
lot of things when I was growing up. I do
remember being very poor. I didn't know we were poor,
and I just really didn't see the connection with the
life I was living, the life my father was living
with farm workers are going through and the movement of
(15:13):
Sister cham is not till later in my life, which
is really sad. I was already, like, you know, twenty
seven when I started learning Chicano studies.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
No, it's real.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I mean, I think we're talking about the differences between
urban and rural context of education, right and Chiganismo. Really,
I think we're talking about like generational differences too, right,
Like I was raised by people who are Chiganos, who
taught me key philosophies and just understanding who I was.
I was born in Pueblo, and I grew up in
kinship family foster care, so I lived with a lot
(15:45):
of my different family members. When my biological parents couldn't
take care of me, my biological mother passed, so I
went to schools literally all over the place. I went
to eight schools before the seventh grade. We lived on
the north side of Denver, which is a really formative
and historic place for Chicano people.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
For Chicano community.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It was a huge part of the Chicano movement that
swept through in the nineteen sixties in Colorado. When I
was in high school, I wanted to be a part
of that, and I didn't get the chance to go
to our local public high school because my parents didn't
trust it because there were a lot of gangs and
there was a lot of violence, and so.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
My parents sent me to a small charter school.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So when I became a teacher, I knew I wanted
to go back to my community, but I knew I
wanted to teach at the public school, and I wanted
to do that for this specific reason that my community
has been extremely gentrified Nadine, and we've seen our community disappear.
The work that I now actively do in really activating
a lot of students towards their own identities, whether they're
(16:50):
Chicano or whatever were they want to ascribe themselves to
be right, was the same work that people gave to me.
And I think a lot about how a lot of
that is rooted to access and education and privilege because
learning your history is a privilege and politicizing yourself as
a privilege from that, right right.
Speaker 7 (17:10):
It wasn't until I learned later in life you know
who we were, how we came to be, that I
decided that I could not do that to the kids
that were in my classroom. They had to have some
knowledge to give them a framework. To me, I see,
knowing your history and being proud of your ancestors is
like your suit of armor.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So, Nadine, you went to the community that you were from,
and you taught in a really intimate environment, and so
I want you to walk me through maybe what was
that transition, What was that moment? At what point did
you begin to just very clearly make the decision of like,
we're not going to do this anymore because it's not working,
it's not our students are responding to it, it's not
what we need right now, and instead I'm going to
(17:52):
put forth what I know we actually need.
Speaker 7 (17:55):
When I went to Eastern New Mexico University, I took
my first cheko Ono history class and I was in
a special education program, and I remember a professor saying,
if you are not teaching relevant education, then you are
not teaching, and that is something that I carried with me,
but I didn't have that much information. I had taken
that the Chicano Humanities class so I had that one book.
(18:18):
So I would try to share as much information from
that one book. And there was you know, it wasn't
easy to find information. Just all of a sudden, I
would see an announcement that the Chicano civil rights movement
was coming out on PBS, coming up next on Chicano
the History of the Mexican American Civil Rights Movement, And
I'm saw all that. I recorded them on the other
big VCR tapes. It's okay, yeah, that's how old I am. Okay,
(18:43):
So I recorded all the Chicano civil rights movement. It
was a four part series, and I thought, I am
going to take this to the classroom. We are going
to you know, learn about it. We're going to write
about it. You know, we're going to I'm going to
expose my kids to this history.
Speaker 11 (18:56):
And I remember when I was showing the Cessar Travison
farm Worker's Movement, do you remember shooting like very sad,
very emotional, but a little nervous. And I knew that
it was going to be so different for them, and
I used to tell them, you know, I'm not telling
you that you're Mexican American.
Speaker 7 (19:14):
I'm not telling you you're Chicano. I'm telling you whatever
you call yourself, if you call yourself Spanish, Chicano, Latino, whatever,
this is information that applies to all of us.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I hear what you're saying, and I know where that
comes from.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
For me, I poured everything into my kids, and I
sought information, and I sought community, and I brought people in.
I think it's it's really beautiful to hear you express
a similar sentiment that you didn't do it alone either, right.
It was kind of a community of folks giving your
resources and information and structures and frameworks that have historically
worked for our communities, right, Like, I think that that's
(19:46):
really formative, And I'm really curious, how did that feel
for you? How did it feel practicing those things with
students for the first time.
Speaker 7 (19:56):
I was so passionate about about what I was doing.
I felt such a passion. It was what they called it,
the community members and the lawyers, is that my sister
and I were over zealous, over zealous, But I think
all teachers should be over zealous, right, be excited about teaching.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
She oh say that.
Speaker 7 (20:11):
Yeah, so my students, I'd learned all these things. I
read about a group called Mitcha in Las Vegas, New Mexico.
So I told my students about this group that they
were learning about their history and if they did community service.
I asked them if they would like to start a
group like that, and they were so excited. They chose officers.
They had their plan. They were going to read to
the young, they were going to put up dominadias, they
(20:33):
were going to go clean the cemetery. They just wanted
to do all this community service. They were just so
pumped and it was just so beautiful to see that.
And then when we came started the school year, I
believe it was in ninety seven, the officers got up
to do a presentation on Mitcha. They wanted to include
more students. They told them they were going to do
they were going to read books, they were gonna get points.
(20:54):
So what happened is that one of my officers she
as they were going to sit down, you let out
of everyone and usu a viva chicando. You could have
heard a pin dro And that's what started the attack
on my sister and I.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I don't know, I think a lot about how like
it wasn't anything that you openly and doctrinated the kid, right, Like,
we're in this weird kind of political state of education
where people don't believe that kids know it's best for themselves, right,
So like for kids to respond to that and then
to like embody that right and to ultimately step into
it and say right and to shout it, it comes
(21:33):
like at a that's a very clear challenge to a
system that might not be working for students, right.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
I mean, we're not going to change everybody, but we
are going to change some of those.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Students, even if it's one.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
Yes, even if it's one I.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Think that we think that we know what's best for kids,
when really they know, right.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Like.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I also facilitated met chat club, right, and that's one
of the reasons I was fired, right Like, And if
kids are in a club, right and they're all actively
showing up after school, I mean we did all kinds
of stuff, Like kids were going hungry, so we raised
money in the community and had a community fridge. We like,
we facilitated the club based upon what the students said
that they wanted, whether that was political or material or whatever. Right, like,
(22:15):
and giving students agency like that is radical, right in
an education system that is much more interested in clipping
their wings right than teaching.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Them how to fly.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I don't know, man, I get kind of emotional thinking
about how everybody believes that education needs to be this apolitical,
like neutral thing, and here you came and you said, hey, actually, like,
according to my students' needs, according to the communities that
we live in, according to the ways that our community
is trying to lead us, this is actually the politics.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
That we need, right, And.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
I'm curious, like, what are you what are your thoughts
on you know, the political things that you did in
the classroom.
Speaker 7 (22:56):
Well, I I remember that I was being attacked once
once my one student let up that via Chicano. You know,
they started really you know, watching me and not agreeing
with what I was doing and not wanting me to
do the Metro group. But no matter what they told me,
I kept on. I was under attack, but I kept
on and what I believed in. And I remember that
(23:19):
at that time too, a Newsweek magazine article came out
about the Latino March on Washington, and I think My
students were like eighth grade. They read the article and
they had to put what they thought about this, and
you know why were they marching? And you know why
it was important? And the essays that they wrote were beautiful.
Robert Rodriguez wrote in there that a march is a
(23:40):
prayer in motion, and some of the students would put
that in the writing. I thought, Wow, this is amazing,
and I decided that I was going to take some
students to Washington. And I took five students to Washington
dec for the march. Wow, and that really did not
sit well with the school board.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
With the top.
Speaker 7 (24:02):
I just can't understand why. That was just an unbelievable experience. Yeah,
but it wasn't that much longer. I believe it was
in March that they suspended us.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
What was it like the day that you were placed
on administrative leave?
Speaker 7 (24:16):
It was very strange. I wasn't quite sure what to expect.
But I had already been speaking to my ACLU attornings
how they wanted to shut us down, how they didn't
want us to do the Mitcha and I had already
started to collect information because I believe, you know, I
really thought they were going to fire me, and they did.
I knew I needed everything documented because they were going
to deny what they told me. And I would send
(24:38):
the superintendent letter and I would ask, can I announce
my MITTA meetings on the intercom? Can I send out flyers?
Can we put up posters and everything? He said no, no, no, no, no,
he said no. But guess what they could announce catechism.
They could have announced baby showers on the intercom. But
I couldn't announce my group on the intercom or could
have posters. They were just just attacking it, of course,
(25:00):
and we tried to hang on for as much as possible.
But during the Christmas break, the Custodian told us they
did this. They were dropped off there. They went into
our classrooms to search because see they were accusing us
of teaching racism, of teaching militancy, of teaching them to
forget they were American. First they were making all these accusations,
(25:21):
but then they had to go into the classroom too,
so that they could find something to prove, to prove
that we were doing these things. And they could find nothing.
They found the Chicano Studies poster termed the Chicano Movement
and it's got graduates, it's got families, it's got farm workers,
it's a beautiful postion. At the bottom, it's got like
a silhouette of graduates with the diploma. So they videotaped
that and they took that out during depositions. They were
(25:43):
deposing my sister and they asked her, what is this.
You know this poster can tell us somebody. Yeah, they
got graduates and got the vidic and the Guadalupitz got
farm workers. And she went on and talked about the
poster and the attorney said, and what is that silhouette
at the bottom, And she said, it's the graduate it's
holding their diploma. And he says what and he zoomed
(26:04):
in the VCR tape and there's the graduates coming in
with the diploma. They've really thought that silhouette had weapons,
so that it was whips that they were holding in
their hair. That's how crazy they got with their accusations.
And so when she said it was the graduates and
he zumed it, then he turned off the TV and
we never heard about that poster again.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Can I ask a real quick question.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I know that you went through this and it was
really hard and emotional. How was it going through it
with your sister?
Speaker 7 (26:37):
Yeah, that was very helpful. Yeah, I mean I think
that's what kept us strong. I mean, not only being
proud of who we were as women, as chi ganas
being together and traveling together and speaking together. It was Yeah,
it made it much easier. It would have been really
lonely to do this alone. So I can imagine. I
mean for you, I.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Think it's really powerful to hear you talk about that.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
When I think about why that you got movement worked, right,
I think there's you and I both know there's a
lot of failures of that.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You kinta movement too, But when I think about what worked.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
That's what I think about is the most transformative part
is that's what it was about. It was about people
doing things together. That's all it was.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
It was.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
It was gompetinos in the fields talking to each other
and deciding that they wanted to be paid fairly. It
was Chicano's in San Luis and these other places in
Tierra Maria, right, and getting together and doing something together,
whether it's taking back land or fighting for a fair
contract or fighting for better schools. Even when we think
about key philosophies, right, that really create the foundation of
(27:36):
that chkinda movement. All it is is it's an expression
of who we are together. I think it's really formative
to hear you kind of talk about that, because although
I do think I'm going through this kind of by myself,
and you know, I wish tell your sister if she
wants to come help out.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
She welcome to you.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Feel me, I think it's something that I'm still coming
to terms with and I'll have to really figure out
for myself. But it is really refreshing to hear how
integral community was to the experience that you had. I
don't know, I think a lot about what happened to me, Nadine,
and it makes me really emotional because I hearing what
happened to you and hearing that you're on the other
(28:11):
side of things from what you experienced and the legal
battles that you went through. It's wild to hear that.
You know, we didn't talk before all this, right, like
you weren't coaching me throughout the entire year, but we
ended up in the same place for the same reasons, right, right,
Because the system doesn't work. It's not you, it's not me.
(28:34):
I ultimately was placed on administratively for my school district
because I didn't stay in my place if I started
speaking out about it.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I went to the press. I said, hey, here's what
happened to me.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I'm not sure what we can do about it, but
I do think that you and I both know, Nadine,
that we're not the first, nor the last, nor the
only Chicano Black, Indigenous Asian teachers who are forced.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Out of the classroom.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Right when I was fired, there were student actions that
developed and took place.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Our METROC club began organizing protests.
Speaker 7 (29:03):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
When I came back, Natine that next week, there was
already a week of student action.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Kids had it planned.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
They did an art demonstration on Monday where they printed
out four thousand of these wanted posters where they put
their own face and it said wanted teachers who look
like me.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
Oh wow, well that is little awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
And they threw them off the balcony.
Speaker 7 (29:24):
And like goodness.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And I was not allowed to communicate with them.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I was not helping them organize. I was not given
any information.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I was just hearing from other teachers who were like,
did you know this is happening? And I was like, well,
I'm not in the loop with anything.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
And on that Friday, I knew the walkout was happening.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
My students walked out at the beginning of the day,
right when school started, and hundreds of students went to
the park across the street from our school. And I
was sent to a meeting for my first period and
they put it on the other side of the building
so that I couldn't see the kids from the window.
And when I was walking to my second period class,
students had been out there for about forty five minutes chanting.
(30:13):
As I was walking back, I remember I was walking
towards my room and I saw outside and I saw
the students for the first time, and there were hundreds
of them and they were outside in the park. And
I had no intention of walking out. My legal counsel
(30:35):
had advised, please don't walk out. You will not be
able to get a job. Do not walk out. Do
not walk out, and I had told them that I
wasn't going to. But at that moment, I got a
phone call from Jasmine Gandharia, who is a really really
formative mentor of mine I met when I was student teaching.
She said, Hey, I just got a phone call from
doctor five gone, and she said that you have to
(30:58):
walk out.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
We have to do this.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
And she's like, I'm here, I'm at the protest, and
I think that this.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Is something that you really need to listen to.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
And so I walked into my classroom and I said,
I'm leaving.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And so I walked out and.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I met my students on the corner of Federal at Spear,
in the middle of the street, and we marched.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Immediately.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
When I got back to the school, right they put
me on administrative leave. I was escorted out by security
and I was told like I would not be able
to be on school property and all these other things.
And so it became really formative to me, and more importantly,
I think really speaks to your point that, like, I
was not placed on administrative leave for not servicing my kids.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
I don't know if a tim if I told you this,
but for my firing. I'm let me go back a
little bit. And this is how backwards they were in Vaughan.
Is that the mayor of the town he actually called
the National Guard on this be there for the firing.
Oh man, he just whipped it. The town like into
a frenzy because I was suspended in March and then
we got fired in July. And I remember that we
(32:41):
our attorneys advised us not to be at that hearing,
you know, when they were going to decide if they
were going to fire us. And from Albuquerque they brought
a bus. The director of Chicano Studies and also the
leader of the Sisar Chavis Foundation, and a preacher and
professors and all kinds of people came down for our
firing just and they did a prayer circle and they
(33:02):
did you know, they were there, but we did. We
weren't there to see it, oh man. And I thought
that was beautiful too, that they were there to support
our kids. But they had to come from Albuquerque, and
I know some parents were there, but I think in
the small town like one, they were kind of like
kind of scared of what was going on, and they
just didn't understand, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Of course, yeah, the majority.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Of the community had their children in our classrooms and
all that, and they trusted us, but they just didn't
understand why all this was going on. And I don't
think they really knew what to do.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
But I will say what stands out is I mean,
like I think about your match O club. Hearing the
ways that you taught students about who they were, and
I deeply believe right now, right like it's a huge
part of my life. But to hear the world that
we have in the state of education for our students
is not working, is not performing in the way that
(33:55):
we need to for our students. So to hear the
similarities in what we're doing and how we both openly
challenged and were fearless in the ways that we confronted
a system that is not yet ready to change and
become what it needs to be for our students, it's
an affirmation to me that.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
We have to be on the right path.
Speaker 7 (34:16):
And I think about how powerful these materials is poetry,
the literature, the stories are to our students. I remember
when my Mitcha students met with the school board members
and the superintendent because you know, they wanted to know
why they so, you know, it was important to learn this.
And I remember I had one one metcha member. He
was a young student. I'm not going to mention names,
(34:37):
but he he told him it's really important for us
to learn this, and he was quoting the quirky Gonzales
poem do you know, he said, we cry the same,
we laughed the same.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
News, you the same.
Speaker 7 (34:49):
Yeah, and for that one student, you know, it was
important to have this, but we got ripped out, and
I wonder how it hurt. There's some of our.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Students think about that almost every day. I mean, I
hear from my Norse students every week. They call me,
they text me still right like we're still in good communication.
I talk to them about what their school and experiences
are like now, and it's really hard and we cry
every time.
Speaker 7 (35:15):
So what are you going to do? Tim, Are you
really going to fight to go back? Because what's going
to happen with the connections you've made at your new school.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Role. Eventually, I would like to go back to North
High School.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
And I'm not sure at what rate.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I'm not sure if it's a couple of years, right,
I'm not sure if it's at the end of my life, right.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
But I do think.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I want to be able to experience walking back into
that school and telling my students that if we fight
for the right thing, we will win. When we fight,
we will win one hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
It's not a question.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I think I would like to go back to North
High School eventually, and I'd like to go back and
really just hug my students.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And tell them how much I miss them, and tell.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Them that even though it's really hard, that I know
that it's going to be worth it.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
I think that I think that'd be good because you
have a large community support and a large student support
for me. Because it was such a small community that
it was just it would have been a hostile environment.
Community members that had made it look so scary, and
I just felt like it was going to be a
hostile environment for me and my sons, and I just
(36:26):
I couldn't go back. I could have gone back, that
was part of the settlement, but I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I'm in litigation with Denver Public Schools right now, and
to hear that even even if I don't go back
to so North High School, that it's still worth it,
I think is really grounding. I think it makes me
feel very just really affirmed. I think it's probably one
of the clearest messages I hope I've received it a
long time. To be honest with you, Thank you so
(36:52):
much for speaking with me.
Speaker 7 (36:53):
Nadine welcome.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I know that if we fight, we will win. But
to talk to somebody who has openly fought in the
same ways that I I'm planning on fighting, It's just
it's really powerful. I don't think I'm ever going to
forget this conversation with you.
Speaker 7 (37:07):
I'm never going to forget the conversation with you, Tim,
because you inspire me and you give me so much
hope for our future and for our young people. Because
there's not teachers like you, then I have no hope.
What I believe is that we continue marching, we continue speaking,
and we cannot back down.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Every teacher has a story of this, either happened to them,
or it happened to a black or brown teacher that
they knew. It makes me feel kind of daunted sometimes
that we're trying to change the system, and it also
makes me feel very affirmed that in no way am I.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Going to have to do this alone or by myself.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I'm twenty five years old, right like, I've got a
lot of years of being a teacher left.
Speaker 7 (37:47):
Oh that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I'm really excited for that.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
And I know that what happened to me was really
painful and really hard, but I'm also very glad that
it happened publicly, because the next time a school in
Denver Public Schools fires a black, brown teacher without a
good reason, I hope that they think twice.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
I hope that they have to. I just want to
thank you so much for choosing to fight in a
way that gives me hope.
Speaker 7 (38:10):
I thank you too for you know, missing to your
amazing and I'm so proud you know that we have
gone to know each other and that we know abody
to the story and your story continues, and I'm just
really very proud of what you've done and what your
students did, and it just gives me a lot of hope.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
We reached out to officials at North High School and
the Denver Public Schools District in Colorado requesting a comment
on Tim's dismissal last year, but they didn't respond. Coming
up on Latino US say we hear from two of
Nate Deane's and Tim's former students, stay with us, not
(38:54):
by yes, Hey, we're back. Before the break, we heard
(39:51):
the story of Nadine Cordova and Tim Ernandez to teachers
from different generations and different states who each got fired
because they taught Chicano history throughout their conversation. We heard
how Nadine and Tim both believe in centering the experiences
of their students in their classrooms and how important it
(40:13):
is to listen to student voices, so we wanted to
do the same. We're gonna hear now from Nadine's former
student Regina Luna and Tim's student Nayelli Lopez.
Speaker 12 (40:30):
My name is Niellie Lopez. I'm fifteen years old, a
sophomore in Denver North High School.
Speaker 9 (40:37):
My name is Regina Luna. I'm forty three years old.
I live in Edgewood, New Mexico.
Speaker 12 (40:43):
So the first time I met Tim Well, mister Hernandez,
I like the coem was like a reopening of West
High School. I remember I barely started my freshman year.
I was the only North student there. I remember feeling
a little out of place. The next thing you see
is Tim and like a group of students and another
(41:03):
teacher come in and they have this big old banner
and it says from North to West Chicano Power. Chick
got next Power. I thought that was like the coolest
thing ever. And it's like, oh my god, he's a
teacher at North. I want him to be my teacher.
Speaker 9 (41:19):
The first time that I met Nadine I was an elementary.
I mean we always knew them, her and her sister,
but the first time I really really interacted with her
was probably in fifth grade, so I was maybe about
ten or so. It was probably about nineteen eighty eight
eighty nine. And then I had them off and on
(41:41):
until I was a senior, which was in nineteen ninety seven.
They were a strong influence on us right from the beginning.
They just they were different, they did things different.
Speaker 12 (41:55):
I remember like the first time walking into his classroom,
I instantly felt at home. I saw LIKEAVO hung up.
I saw a big old poster of like as the calendar.
I saw like the UfW flag that was hung and
I was like, I've never ever seen that in a
school setting.
Speaker 9 (42:16):
What I remember most about being in Nadine's class was
learning a lot of useful things that we would take
with us in everyday life. In her class, she was
teaching us a lot of how to deal with emotions,
how to deal with life in general, how to deal
with situations that it would arise.
Speaker 12 (42:35):
Mister Hernandez was definitely the youngest teacher that I've had,
and a lot of people think that's not that important,
but it is because, especially when you're in high school,
you can connect with your teacher a lot better. Last year,
I used to always wait after school and we had
a community fridge. After school, all the students were hungry,
(42:57):
especially me. I was really hungry, so I would go
to his classroom right when the bell rang and I
would grab a snack and sit down and I would
tell him about my day and just use that space
to just decompress and go over my day.
Speaker 9 (43:12):
I was always the type of person that was just
interested in doing something different. So when the Mecha club
came about, it was like, oh, wow, what's this. You know,
this is actually something different. We've never heard of this before.
Speaker 12 (43:28):
I was in Metcha last year. So Mecha stands for
movie Mintos to Chicanolan in English. It means Chicano student
Movement of Aslan. Aslan being like the land, the homeland
of the Aztecs, the Michika before they migrated down to
Mexico will present day Mexico.
Speaker 9 (43:50):
We hear about this club that we could start that
was actually about our culture, about our race, which at
that time we didn't really know of anything like that,
as you know, especially where we live. So just being
a part of that club when it first started and
then reading more about our culture, I mean, it felt good.
It felt you know, like, why don't we know more
(44:12):
about this? When you have a teacher bringing in this
organization and starting this club, and you have all your
peers around you wanting to learn the same thing and
wanting to know the same thing, it hits different. It's like, Okay, well,
you know, I'm gonna actually learn about myself with my peers,
(44:32):
with my friends, and I'm gonna be able to talk
to people my age about how I feel and about
what I think. I feel like I probably gained more
confidence in myself I feel I did.
Speaker 12 (44:48):
I mean, I was already so shocked and like excited
that there was a Metcha at my high school. So
just like stepping into his class and meeting him was very,
very empowering.
Speaker 9 (45:00):
When Nadine was starting to face dismissal, I remember feeling
the tension. Not only did I feel tension from being
in that classroom around that time, but just being in
the school in general. Nothing really scared Nadine and Patsy.
It seemed at the time, it just seemed like they
were fearless. They continued to teach us how they started
(45:21):
at the beginning of the year, and it almost felt like, maybe,
you know, we were doing something wrong, like we're not
supposed to be learning this.
Speaker 12 (45:31):
That day, we we knew that mister Nandez was going
to hear news about his interview before about coming back
to work at North the next year, so me and
another student went to his classroom after school.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
He had to go.
Speaker 12 (45:48):
Into the meeting, which was like directly behind his classroom.
We wanted to wait in the classroom just to hear
the news and hopefully he was good news and we
can celebrate with him. But when he went to the meeting,
what was five minutes, felt like thirty seconds. Next thing
you know, he comes through the door. The only word
(46:11):
he says is no, and then he walked out again
and started taking everything down from the walls. I wasn't disbelieve.
I couldn't believe that our school would do that to us,
not just to him, but to the students, to our community.
I got my backpack and I left the classroom and
(46:38):
I went.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
To my mom's car. I was so upset, I just cried.
Speaker 12 (46:43):
I came back to school the next day. I was
just like bummed out. I didn't want to do anything.
I wouldn't feel productive, I didn't feel motivated. And that
was the same for a lot of other students, Like
he wasn't just a great form of representation for a student,
but also he was a teacher that we could trust,
(47:04):
and kids would get up every morning the only reason
they were excited to go to school was because of
him in his classroom.
Speaker 9 (47:13):
When I learned that she was being dismissed, I felt
pretty confused. I was going through a lot at that time.
I was pregnant with my first child. I was a
senior in high school. Nadine, you know, she would help
me out a lot. She was always there for me
to talk to. When she got dismissed, I was like,
I just don't get it. I don't understand why this
(47:33):
is happening.
Speaker 12 (47:42):
My friends were in class. It was his LATINX literature class.
When they walked into an empty classroom, and most of all,
when they saw that their teacher was not there, they
all walked out of his classroom. I remember running into
to my cousin who was.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
In this class.
Speaker 12 (48:02):
She was like, where's mister Hernandez, Like where's our teacher?
She was, She looked like she was very upset. She
was trying to ask like this counselor where's our teacher.
He's like, oh, I mean, I don't know, but you
have to go back to class. Can I get you anything?
Do you need anything? And she goes, yeah, mister Hernandez.
(48:23):
I think that was like a very funny but true moment.
Speaker 9 (48:27):
We didn't know, you know, how to really speak up
and stand up for them like we probably should have,
but it's a small town and you just really don't
want that retaliation.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
You know.
Speaker 9 (48:38):
Whenever I did finally graduate high school, I had my baby.
She was like three months old. I ended up being Solidatorian.
When I was doing my solidatory speech, I was told
not to mention Nadine and Patsy, and of course, you know,
I went up and did my speech and mentioned them anyway,
which I got a few dirty looks for. I got
some cheers too, you know, there was cheers that I
(49:00):
actually mentioned them.
Speaker 12 (49:06):
We started to organize. We met up at my friend's
house just like four of us, five of us, and
we just started talking about next steps. And we were
talking about, Okay, when are we going to walk out.
We know we're gonna walk out for sure. What are
we gonna do? Wednesday was a sit in. Thursday we
threw off flyers from the balcony, and Friday we walked
(49:29):
out the flyers that we made it was a picture
of like students, So we got like a bunch of
students take a picture of themselves and like kind of
make them look like they were in a mugshot, and
it said wanted teachers that look like us. We slide
the flyers under the doors and like teachers are supported,
would hang them up. We threw off the flyers from
(49:53):
the balcony and we did a chant, specifically the Chicano
Power Chant. It was a call and response chance, so
the call is Chicano and then people would spawn powered.
Speaker 9 (50:09):
I identify as Chikana definitely. To me, being at Chikana, it's
not just about where my ancestors were from. It's who
I am, It's how I was raised, it's our traditions,
it's our culture, it's how we live every day. It's
kind of makes you feel more empowered, it really does,
you know, And it's kind of a strong word to
use because people are afraid of people being empowered.
Speaker 12 (50:33):
I grew up around some people from the Chikana movement.
When I saw that being represented at North I felt
like way more empowered and I finally knew what it
truly meant to be Chikana. I mean, my dad would
always say what he says, like to be Chicana means
(50:56):
to struggle, and I kind of understood that more and
I definitely identified myself more as a Chikana.
Speaker 9 (51:04):
I think what I learned from Nadine does impact my
life today. I said this in a Facebook post when
I was acknowledging them one day. I can't even begin
to appreciate and acknowledge all our heroes for all these movements.
I can't begin to acknowledge them if I don't think
Nadine and Patsy first, because they're the ones that really
(51:27):
started it for me. It's like, anytime I think about
how proud I am of who I am, I go
back to them.
Speaker 12 (51:34):
I Mean, not only is mister Hernandez just a great teacher,
but he's a really great mentor. He was one of
the few teachers that truly represented me and that truly
represents the North Side. The school doesn't feel the same,
so I'm definitely still healing, and the person that I
went to for everything isn't at school, and I don't
(51:57):
have a classroom where I feel like I truly belong,
And I know it's crazy. It's almost been a year
now that i'm thinking about it. It's almost been a year,
and I'm still feeling a little out of place at
school after everything that happened.
Speaker 9 (52:14):
I think the last time I talked to Nadine and
Patsy was it's probably been a few months. I didn't
believe it was just a conversation about how we're doing,
how my son's doing, how our families are doing. But
I remember feeling really good to know that my teachers
since I was in great school, still followed me and
my life to this day now that I'm forty three
(52:37):
years old. We don't talk often, but when we do talk,
we still have that strong connection. They're just genuine, caring people.
Speaker 12 (52:47):
The biggest lesson mister Hernandez taught me is probably activism
is not a game of passion, but a game of patience.
And that phrase just stuck with me. Even if you
have all the passion in the world and it drives you,
it's not the thing that's going to get you to
(53:07):
what you want, but you have to be patient and
it takes a long time. We're not going to see
big change overnight. It's baby steps. Even if we just
make a little progress, that's still a victory.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
That was Regina Luna and Nielli Lopez. This episode was
(53:51):
produced by Victories Trada and Elizabeth Lenthal Dorris. It was
edited by Daisy Contreras and mixed by Julia Caruso JJ Grubin.
The Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Grusado, Marta Martinez,
Mike Sargent, Renaldo Leanos Junior, Patricia Sulbaran and Julia Rocha.
Speaker 5 (54:10):
With help from Raoul Berees.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Our editorial director is Fernandes Santos. Our director of Engineering
is Stephanie Lebau. Our associate engineer is gabriel A Byez.
Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our theme music was
composed by Sanguet Roubinos. I'm your host and executive producer
Mariango Hoosa. Join us on our next episode and in
the meantime, look for us on social media, act Latinousa
(54:32):
dot org and remember not Demayes.
Speaker 13 (54:35):
Joao Latino USA is made possible in part by the
Annie Casey Foundation. Creates a brighter future for the nation's
children by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and transforming
communities Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden and funding for Latino
(54:59):
You USA is Coverage of a culture of health is
made possible in part by a grant from the Robert
Wood Johnson Foundation.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Actually, this is like a fun fact.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
I was born on February twenty fifth, nineteen ninety seven,
and three days later Fatsy and Nadine were on administrative leaves.
So I don't know like you feel me, Like I
really feel old now I'm twenty four, really feel old,
deaf and so
Speaker 7 (55:26):
Not hilarious.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!