July 6, 2025 • 26 mins
For decades, there’s been a persistent story about Mexican immigrants crossing the border for a better life in the United States. But there’s a new trend emerging: Mexicans and Mexican Americans, disillusioned with American politics, moving to Mexico for a more fulfilling life. In the second episode of a three-part collaboration with the Imperfect Paradise podcast, Imperfect Paradise host Antonia Cereijido and Latino USA’s Maria Hinojosa sit down with a Mexican American creative who moved to Mexico, as well as a Mexico City native, to discuss the “Mexican Dream.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
For decades now, there's been a persisting story from Mexican
immigrants and even family members that every opportunity for higher education.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
For jobs, for a better life, those things.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Could only be found in the United States and not
in Mexico.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
My whole life I grew up Mexico doesn't have any opportunities.
Mexico doesn't set you up to be successful in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
But I've noticed that's been changing. People who have lived
in the United States for much of their lives are
now talking about moving back to Mexico. And that's a
big shift, even from like ten or fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And oh, my god, was I wrong. I finished high
school here, I went to university here. I got great jobs,
great paying jobs. I purchased a home last year. I'm
able to travel internationally. I'm able to have a good
life here.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
That's from a TikTok video of a user named Annie mansonades.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Oh, I'm any by the way.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
She's talking about her family how they moved back to
Mexico a few years ago after her parents had immigrated
to the United States for what they thought would be
the American dream. Back then, the largely accepted narrative was
that if you wanted a better life, you had to
head north past the border. But Annie says that's just
(01:26):
not the case anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
So I just wanted to make this video if anyone
is considering just moving, the Mexico that your parents left ten, fifteen,
twenty thirty years ago is not the same Mexico that
currently exists.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
There are so many opportunities.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
There's just so much and Annie is not alone.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
There are tons of videos just like Annie's on social
media of Mexican immigrants or their American born children who
are making their way back to Mexico because their hope
in the American dream has started to fade, disillusion and
with American politics, they're seeking a new dream, the Mexican Dream.
(02:11):
From Futuromedia and PRX It's Latino USA. I'm Marie Josa.
Today we continue our collaboration with Eli's Studios in Perfect Paradise,
this time The Mexican Dream, and for this episode, once again,
I'm joined by Antoniaes.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Today he though our two shows have decided to team
up and do a series about the forces influencing Latino
attitudes in this country at the moment and how those
values could be changing. Last week we talked about the
rise of the Latina trodwife influencer online, and next week
we're taking a deep dive into a debate happening with
(02:49):
Latino polsters and the role that data and messaging played
in the last election. But today we're diving into a
new aspect of the story, how the belief in the
American dream might be shifting to another part of the Americas.
You might have heard a lot during Lockdown about how
there was this influx of American immigrants, often called digital nomads.
(03:11):
We're working US jobs, making US dollars, but living in Mexico.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Whopping, one point six million Americans are living in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's not the border crossing you expected.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Americans leaving pricey US cities heading south to work from
home in Mexico City. The rapid growth of remote work
has given people more freedom to pick the places they'd
like to live, and lately more Americans have been choosing Mexico.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
It was huge, It was a big story. It was like, wait,
everybody hated on Mexico City. Y'all said it was filled
with smog and dangerous, But now y'all are moving there.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
In droves.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
What happened exactly, and we have data to back that up.
From twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two, the number of
Americans who applied or renewed residency visas surged by about
seventy percent, according to statistics from Mexico's Migration Policy Unit.
The story I want to tell you today is maybe
a subset of those statistics, but it's a story that
(04:05):
I just haven't heard as often. It's about Mexican Americans.
So folks who you know are of Mexican heritage but
grew up here in the US moving to Mexico City.
And the way that I first became aware of this
trend was through tiktoks.
Speaker 6 (04:21):
After living in the United States for twenty three years,
I can tell you, with all the certainty in the world,
life in Mexico is a lot better. With everything going
on in the United States, people are looking to escape.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
The young woman who said, you know, my whole life,
all I heard was Mexico, and it's like, yeah, you've
been sold a bill of goods about Mexico. But also
some might say her parents were sold a bill of
goods about the United States. Yeah, it's the American dream
dollars are going to flow, and the United States is
(04:58):
a very complicated place right now. So this notion of
the American dream being replaced by a Mexican dream, I mean,
that's hot, and in.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Many ways it feels like a reaction to not feeling
represented by the politics in the US, feeling disillusioned with
American politics and reality.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Mexican politics have changed entirely, right right, Yeah, like US
politics have. I mean, they elected Claudia Schanebaum, a woman
president in a country that everybody says is so much Is.
Speaker 7 (05:34):
That so I madri abuela cianifica imuquer dee. Yeah, Partido
de Mexico, la president.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
The higher education system in Mexico has been growing. College
attendees more than doubled from around two million in two
thousand to around four million today. There's also a rapidly
expanding global film and television business that makes Spanish language
films and television. And so you see these like booming
areas industries in Mexico, and just like the tenor around,
(06:10):
what it means to move to Mexico is very different.
So one thing I noticed in particular is that in
my own life, the people who I saw moving to
Mexico City were creative people. Artists, filmmakers, creative directors. Many
of the people who are in these fields that are
typically found in the places where you and I live, Manya,
like New York City, in La these places that are
considered these like hotbeds of creative activity. Now, like the
(06:33):
hot place that they're talking about is Mexico City.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
So that's what we're going to be looking at in
this episode. We're going to be talking with the Mexican
American creative who moved to Mexico City in order to
pursue her version of the Mexican dream.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
And we're also talking to a Mexico City native about
how the influx of US immigrants is changing the city.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So let's dive deep now on chasing the Mexican Dream.
We have Dorris Anime Munos. She's an artist, an activist,
and a music supervisor. She was born in southern California.
She moved to Mexico City at the end of twenty
(07:15):
twenty two. And Antonella Raba is a cultural organizer. She's
a galleryist who was born in and works out of
Mexico City. Dorris, your parents like my parents, right, cefutom
Borguese machinavan deque. You know, the United States was going
to offer more opportunity. In my case, my dad was
a medical doctor. He was hired by the University of
(07:37):
Chicago to make his dream come true. But I didn't
talk a lot with my family about the American dream.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Did you talk about this thing of isueenyo americano the
American dream? And how did you understand it while you
were growing up?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Dorris.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
To be honest, I think since I was a kid,
it was a mixed bag of the American dream man nightmare.
I was the only citizen and an undocumented family, and
so I think my parents struggled with the idea of
what did we come to this country for. They came
shortly after the amnesty program, I think with a different
(08:14):
idea of what kailas by spidad, you know what, was
going to wait for them, only to then sit in
this legal limbo for over thirty years. My brothers are
seven and eleven years older than mean, so they were
brought to the States when they were two and six
years old, and they didn't know they were undocumented until
(08:35):
they were in middle school. And so I think like
any idea or dream that they had of their future
became that nightmare. And so I think there was a
lot of pressure on me to fulfill the American dream,
not so much that my family could fulfill that.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Wow, who yeah, I mean you moved back to Mexico
in twenty twenty two, So what made you say?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Okay, I'm looking I'm looking south. My dream is south.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
I wanted to a make up for lost time. Since
I was a kid. I had this dream of being
able to meet the family that I never had a
chance to grow up with, hear stories about my grandparents,
and well, really pushed that decision was when my grandmother
passed away. I just felt like I can't. I can't
(09:23):
heal here, like yes, temple braid man and seek that
healing where I've always felt held most by, and that
was here.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
And Antonella, you grew up in Mexico City, so you've
watched something else happen to Mexico City. Like when I
was little, for example, we didn't really want to be
caught dead speaking English in Las reother Mexico.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well was that?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Now?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
When I go back to Mexico City, I hear so
many people speaking English everywhere. What has that been like
for you to witness that, Antonella.
Speaker 8 (09:57):
It's very different from say, five years ago, to be
out in the city and here so much English. It
just makes makes it feel like, ah, okay, now you're
coming here. It's a little bit of that, you know,
hour it's hyped, but you know, we've always been here.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It has always been a cool place always.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I mean, Mexico City honestly is the coolest city in
the world. Huge hard to grasp, but you know, just
like the coolest city with most amazing energy. And so
I'm wondering, Antonella, Like five years ago when lockdown was happening, right,
(10:37):
this is when US folks digital nomads they settled down Mexico.
Do you remember seeing this and when you were seeing
this get this Dama or criendo, Like, what was happening
for you is you're like, wait, what's going on?
Speaker 8 (10:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Well it was literally like that.
Speaker 8 (10:54):
There was more and more people with their computers just
flooding Condesa and Roma, and then I think a bunch
of those stayed and then there's now there's families, and
it is a little weird. The city is a lot
more expensive, so definitely it's very different from say, five
(11:14):
years ago.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Coming up what it was like for Doris to move
to Mexico City as a Mexican American and how locals
have adapted to their new reality.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
That's after the break.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Stay with us, Yes, Hey, welcome back to this special
collaboration between Latino USA and Imperfect Paradise.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'm Maria Inojosa.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
And I'm Antonia sa Rihida, host of Imperfect Paradise from
LAA Studios. We're talking about the Mexican dream, the idea
that the American dream for some Mexican American creatives has
been replaced by the dream of moving back to the
homeland of their families. We're exploring the implication of that
for these folks as well as Mexico City locals. We're
(12:14):
back with Antonio Raba, a cultural organizer and galerist who
was born in and works out of Mexico City, and
Doris Anaimunos, an artist, activist and music supervisor who moved
to Mexico City in twenty twenty two. So on, Donda,
after college, I understand that you were interested in living abroad.
You moved to New York for a year to try
(12:36):
to make it there, But then you moved back to
Mexico City in twenty fourteen. What made you decide that
Mexico City was going to be your home base.
Speaker 8 (12:45):
I mean, I had to come back because of my
mom because she got really sick. I was not planning
on it, but I realized pretty quickly how like unaccessible
was New York really in every sense, like I and
finding any jobs, any internships. So then coming here, I
was lucky to come back to a community that was
(13:07):
starting a bunch of like interesting projects. And it was
a nice moment locally coming in Mexico City for the
arts and like self organized projects, and I started being
part of some of those, And I mean I sort
of like realized all of that stuff that happened in
London or New York was sort of like happening here.
(13:28):
After coming back from New York, I took this job
in publication that focuses on Latin American art. That's when
I learned about contemporary Latin American art.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Realizing, you know, just not to be looking norse all
the time.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I'm wondering, Dotties, you walk around Mexico City, it's your city, now,
how are you negotiating your presence being in Mexico City,
how do you interact with people who can be like
huh ayaan nois Chile I see and porciento? How do
you negotiate that?
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Whenever I think about that, I think about the quote
that Edward James almost says and the Selina. So, you know,
Mexican enough for the Mexicans, and we got to prove
to the Mexicans how Mexican we are, and we got
to prove to the Americans how American we are.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
We got to be more Mexican than the Mexicans and
more American than Americans.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Both at the same time.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It's exhausting.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You're not Mexican enough, You're not American enough here exactly,
and no matter where you are, you feel like you're
not enough.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Absolutely, And I think it's something that always has to
culminate onto conversations that I end up having, whether it
was with family members or isn't my many uber drivers
because you know they can pick up on my accent.
And I think one time this happened in parquetic Yeos.
We're like trying to sell me like inhibits, like a
little like rice Crispy treats or whatever, and I was like,
(14:56):
I like nothing e and like, ah, wasn't there is
I'm like Los Angeles. I'm like I had this gringa
and I was like.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Ooo, they used the G word.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
They did, and I was like, no, so gringa and
I was like, oh, yeah, you know Upringo's like yeah,
I don't know a dampion. And that's what I didn't
understand until that very moment, because I grew up like
you referred to gringos as like white people in America, right,
But I didn't understand that Mexicanos call anyone who's from
(15:32):
the States at greeno and.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
We grew up thinking like gringo or gringa means blonde hair,
blue eyes, Ken and Barbie Yah.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Yeah, that was the reference that I had growing up, right,
Because it's like when a white lady was yelling at
my mom to speak in English at a supermarket when
I was translating for her at like seven years old,
that's a gringa.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
To me, you know, and you're like, don't let me
in with her, yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Exactly, And having to explain that experience to Mexican family
or Mexican friends of what it was like for me
being the only US born person in my family. Then
I think that gives the context of like why I
am here, because I know that, like I came here
(16:14):
with purpose, not just to like treat Mexico City as
my Disneyland, as like a digital nomad, you know, like mine,
to like de Luto, to meet family, to collect archives,
to interview my elders while I still have them to
create from that space, Like as an artist, I knew
that my journey gom Yego home it came to a
(16:36):
place where I hit a wall in La where like
I knew that everything that I wanted to create next
wasn't going to be in La, it wasn't going to
be born there. When I lost my grandmother, I felt
this sense of like how how finite our time is here,
and especially how finite our time with our elders is here,
(16:56):
And so to have to then remind myself, like, I'm
here because I'm spending time with meta Alas and I'm
collecting everything that I can from them, and I want
to commemorate their legacy, to be the person that tells
my family's history, and that requires me being here and
creating here and working here. But then it's also the
(17:19):
critique is valid. You know of folks who come into
Mexico with the leverage of earning US dollars, and some
people are very responsible with that, you know, like if
you're earning dollars and you're here haggling with a woman
who's selling her is like, please don't, like, please don't.
So it's a bit complicated, and I think, like I've
(17:40):
been having a lot of illuminating conversations over the last
couple of years because of that, and a lot of
Mahicanos didn't necessarily understand what the experience would be like
for us who are on the other side, because aik Abatiya,
who's like who expresses she felt like we abandoned the
family by moving to the US. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
I know your work, and you're someone who's like navigated
the industry and like the big creative American cities. You know,
like you lived in La you spent some time in
New York. What was Mexico city like from an industry
point of view?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yeah, the first time I came to Mexico was spring
of twenty eighteen for Ceremonia.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Cinemonia is a popular music festival that now takes place
in Mexico City every year.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
One of the artists that I was working with at
the time was making his Mexico City debut here, and
so I was really grateful that the industry actually welcomed
us with open arms. It feels very familiar in a
way too, and so come that same feeling of like
Dalida that you get from your family, you tend to
get here as well of having people invite us to
(18:48):
their homes, like sitting at their tables, inviting us to
like their favorite places to eat, or then getting to
meet my family in the process, et cetera. It was
like a mixed bag of both. I think, you know,
it's different when you go to New York. At least
for me, it's very much like point A to point B.
You're getting your things done. But I think there's a
lot more room for fun here and to actually enjoy
(19:11):
enjoy life here. And I think that's something that you
see a vass difference between Mexico and the States, is
that people actually take the time to enjoy their life.
Whether it's like you know, like when you're running on
Mexican time, like it isn't just because people are just
running lates, because people are just like enjoying themselves and
are actually present and living in the moment. And so
(19:33):
I think that was my pleasant surprise with understanding the
industry here in Mexico. Like, yeah, of course people are
dedicated to their craft and to what they want to
bring into this world and uplift, but they're also having
a great time while doing it.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Antonia for Chilangos themselves, For locals, how do they feel
about all of the US immigrants. Are they excited that
there's more there? Are they annoyed? Like what's the response
from Chilangos.
Speaker 8 (20:03):
I think Chilangos are not annoyed anymore. I think theyre's
sort of like maybe even a little bit arrogant. But
you know, it's like a little funny to see Gringo's
so excited about Mexico. And also at the same time
there's I mean, there's very different obviously, like Gredingos here
there are I mean, I always a couple, a bunch
(20:25):
of friends, there's a bunch of good artists, and then
there's like the very touristy tourists.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I love the fact that Antonella is like they're a
little bit arrogant, and I'm like, wait, Mexico City people
being arrogant. Never Actually, that is the thing about Mexico
City people. Chilangos always have been, always will be humble, loving, inviting,
but absolute. Tamos tambien, which is why we love them.
(20:55):
So does the Mexican dream. It's when you're in Mexico, Like,
is that kind of where your head is at? What
does it really mean to you? And you know, I'm
thinking about this all the time, not only for me
but for my kids, and as you know, Antonia, I'm
actually gathering material to tell my own story of getting
(21:17):
my Mexican citizenship back. Wow, like just getting my Mexican
citizenship back so that I can start a different kind
of life in Mexico and in the United States.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So my kids will be impacted by this.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
This is like an active conversation that I'm having about
my relationship to Mexico and how I deepen this relationship.
Is the dottis, how are you feeling about this? Lociente
seeing Siluciento. I think I came into living in Mexico
(21:52):
with a very open stance. I mean, I've been spending
a lot of time in Mexico over the last ten years,
now I feel like a bit of survivor's guilt of
being able to experience what I am experiencing now, but
knowing that.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
I am exactly where I need to be right now.
To give a bit of context, my brother was deported
ten years ago and he was forcibly moved to Tijuana,
was dropped off in Tijuana. My brother came to the
States at two years old and was deported at twenty nine.
And then at that time, I was graduating college, and
I was the only person who could cross the border
(22:33):
to bring him leftovers from Thanksgiving, to bring him Christmas presents,
to bring bad Christmas presents for his daughters who are
in the States. And so I've had this very complicated
relationship with splitting my life in between both countries, more
so seeing myself as I guess this bridge than this connector.
And I think that's a lot of my purpose of
(22:54):
being cheered than Mexico and Istesueno cou getto complete is
to maybe give context for both sides, to humanize the
immigrant experiences and those who had to live in the
US and documented, and to I think give context to
our families that were left back in Mexico and Now
that I'm here a couple of years in, you know,
(23:17):
I still feel like I am open with whatever way
that that life wants to take me into you and
I have to trust that my life has has moved
me to places that I didn't think I would be
moved to. Pa I'm going to enjoy this Mexican dream
as long as I can, and as I meant to,
and as I'm welcome to. Well.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Thank you so much to Notoris Anai Munos, who is
an artist, activist and music supervisor living in Mexico City,
and to Antonia cultural organizer and gallerist who was born
in and works out of Mexico City as well.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Gracias Doris, Gracias Antonella. And we're having tacos barados one hundred.
I'm so down for that.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I way Mexico City.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
This was so fun. We next time we see each
other has to be in Mexico City.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Let us know.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Coming up next week on our collaboration with LAist. Donald
Trump won a record share of Latino support in the
last presidential election, so there's a lot of finger pointing
going on our Latino advocacy groups and polling firms helping
or hurting the Democratic Party cause there's a cultural problem
(24:33):
in the Democratic Party, there's a data problem.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
There's an ideological problem, and a cottage industry has been
built to perpetuate.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
That inside the high stakes debate over the future of
Latino political power in the United States. The host of
Imperfect Paradise from LA's Studios is Antonia Serejido. This episode
(25:03):
was edited by our Maria Garcia and Marlon Bishop. Senior
producer for this episode is Natalie Chanowski. Production help from
Monica Morales, Garcia and James Chao. It was mixed by
Stephanie Lebau, Julia Caruso and jj Carubin from Latino USA.
Fact checking for this episode by Roxanna Guire. Catherine Mailhouse
(25:25):
is the executive producer of Imperfect Paradise and the director
of content Development. The Latino USA team also includes Fernanda Echawari,
Jessica Ellis, Victoria Estrella, Dominique Estrosa, Renaldo Leanos Junior, Andrea
Lopez Gruzado, Luis Luna Doori, mar Marquez Marta Martinez, Dasha Sandoval,
(25:48):
Nur Saudi, and Nancy Trujillo, Benni, Leamidias, Marlon Bishop, Mario
Garcia and I are co executive producers and I'm your
host Maria Noovosa Pastella Proxima dotevayas Chao.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment,
building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
The Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more
at hsfoundation dot org and the Ford Foundation, working with
visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide.
For decades now, there's been a persisting story from Mexican
immigrants and even family members that every opportunity for higher education.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
For jobs, for a better life, those things.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Could only be found in the United States and not
in Mexico.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
My whole life I grew up Mexico doesn't have any opportunities.
Mexico doesn't set you up to be successful in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
But I've noticed that's been changing. People who have lived
in the United States for much of their lives are
now talking about moving back to Mexico. And that's a
big shift, even from like ten or fifteen years ago.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And oh, my god, was I wrong. I finished high
school here, I went to university here. I got great jobs,
great paying jobs. I purchased a home last year. I'm
able to travel internationally. I'm able to have a good
life here.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
That's from a TikTok video of a user named Annie mansonades.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Oh, I'm any by the way.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
She's talking about her family how they moved back to
Mexico a few years ago after her parents had immigrated
to the United States for what they thought would be
the American dream. Back then, the largely accepted narrative was
that if you wanted a better life, you had to
head north past the border. But Annie says that's just
(01:26):
not the case anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
So I just wanted to make this video if anyone
is considering just moving, the Mexico that your parents left ten, fifteen,
twenty thirty years ago is not the same Mexico that
currently exists.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
There are so many opportunities.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
There's just so much and Annie is not alone.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
There are tons of videos just like Annie's on social
media of Mexican immigrants or their American born children who
are making their way back to Mexico because their hope
in the American dream has started to fade, disillusion and
with American politics, they're seeking a new dream, the Mexican Dream.
(02:11):
From Futuromedia and PRX It's Latino USA. I'm Marie Josa.
Today we continue our collaboration with Eli's Studios in Perfect Paradise,
this time The Mexican Dream, and for this episode, once again,
I'm joined by Antoniaes.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Today he though our two shows have decided to team
up and do a series about the forces influencing Latino
attitudes in this country at the moment and how those
values could be changing. Last week we talked about the
rise of the Latina trodwife influencer online, and next week
we're taking a deep dive into a debate happening with
(02:49):
Latino polsters and the role that data and messaging played
in the last election. But today we're diving into a
new aspect of the story, how the belief in the
American dream might be shifting to another part of the Americas.
You might have heard a lot during Lockdown about how
there was this influx of American immigrants, often called digital nomads.
(03:11):
We're working US jobs, making US dollars, but living in Mexico.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Whopping, one point six million Americans are living in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's not the border crossing you expected.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Americans leaving pricey US cities heading south to work from
home in Mexico City. The rapid growth of remote work
has given people more freedom to pick the places they'd
like to live, and lately more Americans have been choosing Mexico.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
It was huge, It was a big story. It was like, wait,
everybody hated on Mexico City. Y'all said it was filled
with smog and dangerous, But now y'all are moving there.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
In droves.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
What happened exactly, and we have data to back that up.
From twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two, the number of
Americans who applied or renewed residency visas surged by about
seventy percent, according to statistics from Mexico's Migration Policy Unit.
The story I want to tell you today is maybe
a subset of those statistics, but it's a story that
(04:05):
I just haven't heard as often. It's about Mexican Americans.
So folks who you know are of Mexican heritage but
grew up here in the US moving to Mexico City.
And the way that I first became aware of this
trend was through tiktoks.
Speaker 6 (04:21):
After living in the United States for twenty three years,
I can tell you, with all the certainty in the world,
life in Mexico is a lot better. With everything going
on in the United States, people are looking to escape.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
The young woman who said, you know, my whole life,
all I heard was Mexico, and it's like, yeah, you've
been sold a bill of goods about Mexico. But also
some might say her parents were sold a bill of
goods about the United States. Yeah, it's the American dream
dollars are going to flow, and the United States is
(04:58):
a very complicated place right now. So this notion of
the American dream being replaced by a Mexican dream, I mean,
that's hot, and in.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Many ways it feels like a reaction to not feeling
represented by the politics in the US, feeling disillusioned with
American politics and reality.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Mexican politics have changed entirely, right right, Yeah, like US
politics have. I mean, they elected Claudia Schanebaum, a woman
president in a country that everybody says is so much Is.
Speaker 7 (05:34):
That so I madri abuela cianifica imuquer dee. Yeah, Partido
de Mexico, la president.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
The higher education system in Mexico has been growing. College
attendees more than doubled from around two million in two
thousand to around four million today. There's also a rapidly
expanding global film and television business that makes Spanish language
films and television. And so you see these like booming
areas industries in Mexico, and just like the tenor around,
(06:10):
what it means to move to Mexico is very different.
So one thing I noticed in particular is that in
my own life, the people who I saw moving to
Mexico City were creative people. Artists, filmmakers, creative directors. Many
of the people who are in these fields that are
typically found in the places where you and I live, Manya,
like New York City, in La these places that are
considered these like hotbeds of creative activity. Now, like the
(06:33):
hot place that they're talking about is Mexico City.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
So that's what we're going to be looking at in
this episode. We're going to be talking with the Mexican
American creative who moved to Mexico City in order to
pursue her version of the Mexican dream.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
And we're also talking to a Mexico City native about
how the influx of US immigrants is changing the city.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So let's dive deep now on chasing the Mexican Dream.
We have Dorris Anime Munos. She's an artist, an activist,
and a music supervisor. She was born in southern California.
She moved to Mexico City at the end of twenty
(07:15):
twenty two. And Antonella Raba is a cultural organizer. She's
a galleryist who was born in and works out of
Mexico City. Dorris, your parents like my parents, right, cefutom
Borguese machinavan deque. You know, the United States was going
to offer more opportunity. In my case, my dad was
a medical doctor. He was hired by the University of
(07:37):
Chicago to make his dream come true. But I didn't
talk a lot with my family about the American dream.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Did you talk about this thing of isueenyo americano the
American dream? And how did you understand it while you
were growing up?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Dorris.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
To be honest, I think since I was a kid,
it was a mixed bag of the American dream man nightmare.
I was the only citizen and an undocumented family, and
so I think my parents struggled with the idea of
what did we come to this country for. They came
shortly after the amnesty program, I think with a different
(08:14):
idea of what kailas by spidad, you know what, was
going to wait for them, only to then sit in
this legal limbo for over thirty years. My brothers are
seven and eleven years older than mean, so they were
brought to the States when they were two and six
years old, and they didn't know they were undocumented until
(08:35):
they were in middle school. And so I think like
any idea or dream that they had of their future
became that nightmare. And so I think there was a
lot of pressure on me to fulfill the American dream,
not so much that my family could fulfill that.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Wow, who yeah, I mean you moved back to Mexico
in twenty twenty two, So what made you say?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Okay, I'm looking I'm looking south. My dream is south.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
I wanted to a make up for lost time. Since
I was a kid. I had this dream of being
able to meet the family that I never had a
chance to grow up with, hear stories about my grandparents,
and well, really pushed that decision was when my grandmother
passed away. I just felt like I can't. I can't
(09:23):
heal here, like yes, temple braid man and seek that
healing where I've always felt held most by, and that
was here.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
And Antonella, you grew up in Mexico City, so you've
watched something else happen to Mexico City. Like when I
was little, for example, we didn't really want to be
caught dead speaking English in Las reother Mexico.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Well was that?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Now?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
When I go back to Mexico City, I hear so
many people speaking English everywhere. What has that been like
for you to witness that, Antonella.
Speaker 8 (09:57):
It's very different from say, five years ago, to be
out in the city and here so much English. It
just makes makes it feel like, ah, okay, now you're
coming here. It's a little bit of that, you know,
hour it's hyped, but you know, we've always been here.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It has always been a cool place always.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I mean, Mexico City honestly is the coolest city in
the world. Huge hard to grasp, but you know, just
like the coolest city with most amazing energy. And so
I'm wondering, Antonella, Like five years ago when lockdown was happening, right,
(10:37):
this is when US folks digital nomads they settled down Mexico.
Do you remember seeing this and when you were seeing
this get this Dama or criendo, Like, what was happening
for you is you're like, wait, what's going on?
Speaker 8 (10:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Well it was literally like that.
Speaker 8 (10:54):
There was more and more people with their computers just
flooding Condesa and Roma, and then I think a bunch
of those stayed and then there's now there's families, and
it is a little weird. The city is a lot
more expensive, so definitely it's very different from say, five
(11:14):
years ago.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Coming up what it was like for Doris to move
to Mexico City as a Mexican American and how locals
have adapted to their new reality.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
That's after the break.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Stay with us, Yes, Hey, welcome back to this special
collaboration between Latino USA and Imperfect Paradise.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'm Maria Inojosa.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
And I'm Antonia sa Rihida, host of Imperfect Paradise from
LAA Studios. We're talking about the Mexican dream, the idea
that the American dream for some Mexican American creatives has
been replaced by the dream of moving back to the
homeland of their families. We're exploring the implication of that
for these folks as well as Mexico City locals. We're
(12:14):
back with Antonio Raba, a cultural organizer and galerist who
was born in and works out of Mexico City, and
Doris Anaimunos, an artist, activist and music supervisor who moved
to Mexico City in twenty twenty two. So on, Donda,
after college, I understand that you were interested in living abroad.
You moved to New York for a year to try
(12:36):
to make it there, But then you moved back to
Mexico City in twenty fourteen. What made you decide that
Mexico City was going to be your home base.
Speaker 8 (12:45):
I mean, I had to come back because of my
mom because she got really sick. I was not planning
on it, but I realized pretty quickly how like unaccessible
was New York really in every sense, like I and
finding any jobs, any internships. So then coming here, I
was lucky to come back to a community that was
(13:07):
starting a bunch of like interesting projects. And it was
a nice moment locally coming in Mexico City for the
arts and like self organized projects, and I started being
part of some of those, And I mean I sort
of like realized all of that stuff that happened in
London or New York was sort of like happening here.
(13:28):
After coming back from New York, I took this job
in publication that focuses on Latin American art. That's when
I learned about contemporary Latin American art.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Realizing, you know, just not to be looking norse all
the time.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I'm wondering, Dotties, you walk around Mexico City, it's your city, now,
how are you negotiating your presence being in Mexico City,
how do you interact with people who can be like
huh ayaan nois Chile I see and porciento? How do
you negotiate that?
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Whenever I think about that, I think about the quote
that Edward James almost says and the Selina. So, you know,
Mexican enough for the Mexicans, and we got to prove
to the Mexicans how Mexican we are, and we got
to prove to the Americans how American we are.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
We got to be more Mexican than the Mexicans and
more American than Americans.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Both at the same time.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It's exhausting.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You're not Mexican enough, You're not American enough here exactly,
and no matter where you are, you feel like you're
not enough.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Absolutely, And I think it's something that always has to
culminate onto conversations that I end up having, whether it
was with family members or isn't my many uber drivers
because you know they can pick up on my accent.
And I think one time this happened in parquetic Yeos.
We're like trying to sell me like inhibits, like a
little like rice Crispy treats or whatever, and I was like,
(14:56):
I like nothing e and like, ah, wasn't there is
I'm like Los Angeles. I'm like I had this gringa
and I was like.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Ooo, they used the G word.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
They did, and I was like, no, so gringa and
I was like, oh, yeah, you know Upringo's like yeah,
I don't know a dampion. And that's what I didn't
understand until that very moment, because I grew up like
you referred to gringos as like white people in America, right,
But I didn't understand that Mexicanos call anyone who's from
(15:32):
the States at greeno and.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
We grew up thinking like gringo or gringa means blonde hair,
blue eyes, Ken and Barbie Yah.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Yeah, that was the reference that I had growing up, right,
Because it's like when a white lady was yelling at
my mom to speak in English at a supermarket when
I was translating for her at like seven years old,
that's a gringa.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
To me, you know, and you're like, don't let me
in with her, yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Exactly, And having to explain that experience to Mexican family
or Mexican friends of what it was like for me
being the only US born person in my family. Then
I think that gives the context of like why I
am here, because I know that, like I came here
(16:14):
with purpose, not just to like treat Mexico City as
my Disneyland, as like a digital nomad, you know, like mine,
to like de Luto, to meet family, to collect archives,
to interview my elders while I still have them to
create from that space, Like as an artist, I knew
that my journey gom Yego home it came to a
(16:36):
place where I hit a wall in La where like
I knew that everything that I wanted to create next
wasn't going to be in La, it wasn't going to
be born there. When I lost my grandmother, I felt
this sense of like how how finite our time is here,
and especially how finite our time with our elders is here,
(16:56):
And so to have to then remind myself, like, I'm
here because I'm spending time with meta Alas and I'm
collecting everything that I can from them, and I want
to commemorate their legacy, to be the person that tells
my family's history, and that requires me being here and
creating here and working here. But then it's also the
(17:19):
critique is valid. You know of folks who come into
Mexico with the leverage of earning US dollars, and some
people are very responsible with that, you know, like if
you're earning dollars and you're here haggling with a woman
who's selling her is like, please don't, like, please don't.
So it's a bit complicated, and I think, like I've
(17:40):
been having a lot of illuminating conversations over the last
couple of years because of that, and a lot of
Mahicanos didn't necessarily understand what the experience would be like
for us who are on the other side, because aik Abatiya,
who's like who expresses she felt like we abandoned the
family by moving to the US. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
I know your work, and you're someone who's like navigated
the industry and like the big creative American cities. You know,
like you lived in La you spent some time in
New York. What was Mexico city like from an industry
point of view?
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yeah, the first time I came to Mexico was spring
of twenty eighteen for Ceremonia.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Cinemonia is a popular music festival that now takes place
in Mexico City every year.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
One of the artists that I was working with at
the time was making his Mexico City debut here, and
so I was really grateful that the industry actually welcomed
us with open arms. It feels very familiar in a
way too, and so come that same feeling of like
Dalida that you get from your family, you tend to
get here as well of having people invite us to
(18:48):
their homes, like sitting at their tables, inviting us to
like their favorite places to eat, or then getting to
meet my family in the process, et cetera. It was
like a mixed bag of both. I think, you know,
it's different when you go to New York. At least
for me, it's very much like point A to point B.
You're getting your things done. But I think there's a
lot more room for fun here and to actually enjoy
(19:11):
enjoy life here. And I think that's something that you
see a vass difference between Mexico and the States, is
that people actually take the time to enjoy their life.
Whether it's like you know, like when you're running on
Mexican time, like it isn't just because people are just
running lates, because people are just like enjoying themselves and
are actually present and living in the moment. And so
(19:33):
I think that was my pleasant surprise with understanding the
industry here in Mexico. Like, yeah, of course people are
dedicated to their craft and to what they want to
bring into this world and uplift, but they're also having
a great time while doing it.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Antonia for Chilangos themselves, For locals, how do they feel
about all of the US immigrants. Are they excited that
there's more there? Are they annoyed? Like what's the response
from Chilangos.
Speaker 8 (20:03):
I think Chilangos are not annoyed anymore. I think theyre's
sort of like maybe even a little bit arrogant. But
you know, it's like a little funny to see Gringo's
so excited about Mexico. And also at the same time
there's I mean, there's very different obviously, like Gredingos here
there are I mean, I always a couple, a bunch
(20:25):
of friends, there's a bunch of good artists, and then
there's like the very touristy tourists.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I love the fact that Antonella is like they're a
little bit arrogant, and I'm like, wait, Mexico City people
being arrogant. Never Actually, that is the thing about Mexico
City people. Chilangos always have been, always will be humble, loving, inviting,
but absolute. Tamos tambien, which is why we love them.
(20:55):
So does the Mexican dream. It's when you're in Mexico, Like,
is that kind of where your head is at? What
does it really mean to you? And you know, I'm
thinking about this all the time, not only for me
but for my kids, and as you know, Antonia, I'm
actually gathering material to tell my own story of getting
(21:17):
my Mexican citizenship back. Wow, like just getting my Mexican
citizenship back so that I can start a different kind
of life in Mexico and in the United States.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
So my kids will be impacted by this.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
This is like an active conversation that I'm having about
my relationship to Mexico and how I deepen this relationship.
Is the dottis, how are you feeling about this? Lociente
seeing Siluciento. I think I came into living in Mexico
(21:52):
with a very open stance. I mean, I've been spending
a lot of time in Mexico over the last ten years,
now I feel like a bit of survivor's guilt of
being able to experience what I am experiencing now, but
knowing that.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
I am exactly where I need to be right now.
To give a bit of context, my brother was deported
ten years ago and he was forcibly moved to Tijuana,
was dropped off in Tijuana. My brother came to the
States at two years old and was deported at twenty nine.
And then at that time, I was graduating college, and
I was the only person who could cross the border
(22:33):
to bring him leftovers from Thanksgiving, to bring him Christmas presents,
to bring bad Christmas presents for his daughters who are
in the States. And so I've had this very complicated
relationship with splitting my life in between both countries, more
so seeing myself as I guess this bridge than this connector.
And I think that's a lot of my purpose of
(22:54):
being cheered than Mexico and Istesueno cou getto complete is
to maybe give context for both sides, to humanize the
immigrant experiences and those who had to live in the
US and documented, and to I think give context to
our families that were left back in Mexico and Now
that I'm here a couple of years in, you know,
(23:17):
I still feel like I am open with whatever way
that that life wants to take me into you and
I have to trust that my life has has moved
me to places that I didn't think I would be
moved to. Pa I'm going to enjoy this Mexican dream
as long as I can, and as I meant to,
and as I'm welcome to. Well.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Thank you so much to Notoris Anai Munos, who is
an artist, activist and music supervisor living in Mexico City,
and to Antonia cultural organizer and gallerist who was born
in and works out of Mexico City as well.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Gracias Doris, Gracias Antonella. And we're having tacos barados one hundred.
I'm so down for that.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I way Mexico City.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
This was so fun. We next time we see each
other has to be in Mexico City.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Let us know.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Coming up next week on our collaboration with LAist. Donald
Trump won a record share of Latino support in the
last presidential election, so there's a lot of finger pointing
going on our Latino advocacy groups and polling firms helping
or hurting the Democratic Party cause there's a cultural problem
(24:33):
in the Democratic Party, there's a data problem.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
There's an ideological problem, and a cottage industry has been
built to perpetuate.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
That inside the high stakes debate over the future of
Latino political power in the United States. The host of
Imperfect Paradise from LA's Studios is Antonia Serejido. This episode
(25:03):
was edited by our Maria Garcia and Marlon Bishop. Senior
producer for this episode is Natalie Chanowski. Production help from
Monica Morales, Garcia and James Chao. It was mixed by
Stephanie Lebau, Julia Caruso and jj Carubin from Latino USA.
Fact checking for this episode by Roxanna Guire. Catherine Mailhouse
(25:25):
is the executive producer of Imperfect Paradise and the director
of content Development. The Latino USA team also includes Fernanda Echawari,
Jessica Ellis, Victoria Estrella, Dominique Estrosa, Renaldo Leanos Junior, Andrea
Lopez Gruzado, Luis Luna Doori, mar Marquez Marta Martinez, Dasha Sandoval,
(25:48):
Nur Saudi, and Nancy Trujillo, Benni, Leamidias, Marlon Bishop, Mario
Garcia and I are co executive producers and I'm your
host Maria Noovosa Pastella Proxima dotevayas Chao.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment,
building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
The Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more
at hsfoundation dot org and the Ford Foundation, working with
visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide.
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