March 17, 2023 • 32 mins
Villano Antillano and Ana Macho are two Puerto Rican trans and non-binary musicians making waves in the music industry. In their latest projects, Villano Antillano’s debut album “Sustancia X” and Ana Macho’s “Realismo Magico,” both artists use elements of magical realism and science fiction to dream of queer and trans empowerment. In this intimate conversation, we hear the two artists bring some humor into the difficult realities of navigating a transphobic industry, and we dive deep into the sonic worlds of their latest albums.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, their listener, just a heads up that there is
some strong language in this episode. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I feel like Vianna is like a super villain, and
I feel like Anna is like a super heroin and
I feel like Viganna is like this dark rapper at
night and and I is like this really glossy, colorful
pop star. And I feel like the girl is need that.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, they need a dualism.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
They need to feed those both sides of themselves. And
I also think both Ana Macho and Banaiano are just
very heightened versions of who we are as people and
our experiences.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
From futur media and p RX It's Latino USA, I'm
Maria Inovosa Today.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Puerto Rican musical artists.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Bienno and Tiano and Anamacho on queer and trans utopias
and dystopias. Biano and Piano and Anamacho often created fantastical
worlds through their music.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
In their first collaboration, the song Munieka, Vienna and Anna
play with the word used in Latin America and in
the Caribbean to refer to trans women and trans women
who engage in sex work. In their video, the artists
imagine a Barbie Pink candy shop surrounded by a glamdap,
(01:30):
trans and non binary crew. They appropriate the word munieka
to celebrate their own identities as trans and non binary
people and create an anthem of liberation.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Ye name Boom Boom Hey.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Raised in Maamon, a suburb of San Juan, Puerto Rico,
twenty seven year old Biano Antia, also known as Villana,
blends her love of salsa, rock and reggaeton with powerful
lyricism and an unmistakable flow. In twenty twenty two, Vienna
(02:21):
released her debut album. It's called Sustancia Echis. It's a
riff on the chemical X you know that secret ingredient
besides sugar, spice and everything nice that created the Powerpuff Girls.
The album is an embodiment of Vianna stepping into her
(02:41):
own power. Sustancia Echis has garnered millions of streams, as
well as praise from outlets like Pitchfork and Rolling Stone.
Then there's Ana Macho. The twenty four year old raised
(03:03):
in Gaguas, Puerto Rico, described themselves as a non binary
Caribbean pop star and I got their start in the
world of drag and then went on to pursue music
exploring genres that are rooted in the Caribbean and blending
it with top melodies Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Jermin, monic Sar Reply About You Vauelma.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Last year, Anna released their ep realism Machico, creating dreamy
soundscapes transporting the listener to Anna's experiences of falling in
love in the Caribbean, about feeling held and celebrated by
queer friends and community.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And although their music is often quite different, Diana and
Ana Macho have been friends for years. Today, the Yana
and Anamo get on a Call Vienna is in Miami
an Amato in Puerto Rico at their studio Mal Dad,
where both artists got their start. The friends talk about
(04:11):
the obstacles they each had to overcome in a male dominated,
transphobic industry and their use of magical realism in their
latest projects. Here are Ana Macho and Biano and Piano
in conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Hey girl, what's up? Hello Riana?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Hey Earlie go on the cay Go. I feel like
it's very complicated to paint a picture of what our
beginnings were like. I feel like it's interesting to know, however,
that I did get my startup right now where Anna
(04:54):
is sitting like literally in that place in in La
Mandald And that was basically like the only like helping
hand that I had ever. Nobody else in the industry
was like willing to just give us a shot at anything.
And you know, access to resources and access to like
quality resources to produce quality music were very scarce. It's
(05:15):
not something that like I had access to at all,
like growing up, or that I could just you know,
call somebody up and be like, hey, let me record this.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I agree with you. I feel very much the same way.
I think that my version of the Trenches really was
just actively trying to like knock on as many doors
as possible, and none of the doors open, And I'm like,
but girl, do you know the gift I'm bringing to
you by asking you to work with me? And I
feel like that literally taught me that I had to
(05:46):
learn how to make my own music, and I had
to learn how to produce it like in my bedroom,
and I had to like learn my own ship because
nobody was going to help me.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Because I remember, like the first song that I heard
of Anna, it was like this SoundCloud demo. I would
go back and listen to it over and over again.
It was like one of my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Bomos so I loves momo love it. Oh yeah, I
used to be such a melodramatic teenager making like Lana
do write music.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I see it, but I lived for it. You were
really doing that.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
When you started releasing music. Like the first song, like
the disc track you released was so bladset and something
girl that was years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
And identities ago.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, that was like a couple of pronouns ago. Literally,
it was like the first time that I heard you
rap and ever since, like I remember seeing your first shows,
and I feel like we've always kept in touch in
a very particular way, like in a connected with our music.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
There's a lot of like seeing each other in the trenches,
but I know that you're in the trenches whip me,
and you're in the trenches too, so it's comforting to
know that you're also in the trenches.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I don't feel like I'm out of any trenches. Girl.
Every day it's a new trench. I feel like people
perceive us as very very successful. Wish we are, but
I feel like people think we're like Beyonce. I feel
like people forget the fact that we are really starting out.
Still we still have a lot of doors to knocked down.
(07:33):
The fact that we are trans people just makes it harder. Period.
So even if we have like high pervisibility, like the
high pervisibility is a trench in itself, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
See, like that's very that's you said something very deep
right there. You see, that's what I love about you.
You just really hit it over the head with that one.
But also I feel like us being trans people, everybody
knows about us, and people like equate that to status,
but the fact that we are queer people negates, you know,
the success that comes with that fame. I'm pretty sure
(08:05):
if I was a SIS straight man at the level
that I'm at, I would have access to a bunch
of other things that I don't have because of the
fact that I'm a woman and because of the fact
that I'm a queer woman. It's kind of like a
little inside joke, and everybody's in on it. That's not queer.
You know, everybody that controls the radio, everybody that controls media,
everybody that controls like everything else, which is like you know,
(08:27):
siss straight people will definitely like hop on the wave
when it's profitable and when it's like there's this big
buzz around it. But after that, it's like proops.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
First of all, the music industry is ninety nine percent
straight man, so which is something that's a guy like
consistently going into spaces that is just one male run.
And then you're like a trans person in the midst.
But then you're also like more talent than all of them.
That is like it creates a very particular, very othering dynamic.
(09:07):
I have, like a particular story, Like I'm not gonna say,
I'm not gonna name names, but I'm gonna spill the
tea on the story. Girl, can you believe I recently
went to this music video pitch. I presented the idea
for my mister video because I creative direct everything.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
You know, we both do. We have to.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I'm like, this is what I want, and this is
a song about feeling confident, feeling sexy, feeling beautiful, feeling cool,
feeling very positive about myself as a trans person, and
being with my trans people friends and cutting up on Kiki.
Suddenly like I present this the thing, and then we
have a follow up meeting with a new version of
(09:48):
my pitch, like the man the straight cist men who
are all over forty met up without me, and I'm like,
this is so strange. I already told them what the
video's about, Like, I literally already told them the scenes
I wanted that looks I want it, Like, it's so
strange that they want to meet up with me for
a new direction. Like the first thing they tell me
is that they wanted to change it so that I
(10:09):
was a sex worker in the video. And again, sex
work is work. It's none thing against sex work. I'm
against this random straight systment telling me that I have
to be hyper sexual in a music video where I
never consented to that. I never said that was the idea, Like,
and I literally told them like, first of all, this
is transphobic, pomp bump. Then when I was like, this
(10:31):
is transphobed. Let this be the last time you tell
a trans person that they have to be a sex
worker in their own music video.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Period.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
You should be a sex worker in their music video
if that's what you want to do, period.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And the fact that that's where their mind automatically goes.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
And I literally told them, you took my idea and
you put it through the male gigs.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And then also that not being your experience exactly because
I have done sex work and I did sex work
a long time until they like pursue music, so like
in my experience, it's there. And when I talk about
these things, well you know I have where to pull from.
Like I said, I'm very autobiographical, but that not being
your experience, and also like how disrespectful towards people who
(11:11):
are actual sex workers.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You know, this is not me, Like, this is just
not me and you miss the mark, Like if you
if you actually first of all listen to my music,
saw my videos, like you would know that this is
so much not me and that you're projecting onto me
as a trans person, your ideas of how a transwoman
(11:32):
or how a trans person can be sexy, which the
only way for them is for you to be a
TRASHIATD hooker with them.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
There can only be one of us, you know, I've
talked about this so many times. We're a concepts to
them and it doesn't matter, Like I'm pretty sure they
all think we're the same thing, you know, because it's.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I'm sure I've gone to things and people think I'm beyond.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And I was at a bar with a friend Essona
yet like stops my friend and ask them are you on?
And I'm like, they're literally they're back.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's like to me.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
And then my friend looks at me because we were
like is this a joke? And I was like I
caught onto it really quick, and I said, yeah, yeah,
that that's that's that's her, and like I took a
picture and everything like of them and it was there
was me, and I was like, we are a concept
to these people. But you know, in hopes, I feel
like we have to sort of like you know, grab
(12:27):
that power back and be like, well, the same way
you gate keep a whole bunch of things. I feel
like I'm up for the gatekeeping.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
You're at the gates. You're at the gates keeping that gate.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
You're keeping that literally literally, And I feel like it's
also very important because it kind of like helps us
remember I don't know about that. We're not going to
forget the fact that like nobody gave us.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
The time of day. Ever, I want to say something
to that ban. I want to say something to not
very clear. We're referencing a very particular kind of attention
space and fame, which WHI is straight people famous because,
first of all, we're famous for the queers, the girlies,
the dolls, and the gays, and they're the real people
I do my shit for. They're the real people that
(13:11):
have been there from day zero and will be there
till the day I die, And they're the community that
is surround us. What happens with you and me, and
I'm sure that will happen with other people, is the
fact that when you, at some point you become so
gay famous, the straight people strut to notice, and then
they start thinking that they're you're doing you a favor
by giving you the time of day, and they don't
(13:32):
know that we're the I'm literally like coming down from
Olympus for you guys to see the tea and then disappear.
Straight men and straight people always think they're doing us
favors because they think they're the one in control. And
I'm like, do you know I'm literally a transcendental spirit
guide deity spreading love and peace throughout the world, and
(13:54):
you're just some straight guy with money.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Literally, do you know that my consciousness stretches across gender
spectrum and has literally got me Because I've had this,
I've had this, I've had time to think about this
and clearly so have you so you ate that you
said exactly what needed to be said.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Coming up on Latino USA, Puerto Rican musical artists Eno
and Thiano and Anamacho talk about their latest projects and
dreaming of queer and trans empowerment.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Through their music. Stay with us, yes, h.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
M h m h.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Hey we're back. Before the break, we were listening to
a conversation between Diano, Antiano and Anamacho, both trans and
non binary Puerto Rican musicians making waves in the music world. Now,
Anna and Vienna talk about their latest projects Realismo Maxico
and Substancia Ekis, and how they both use magical realism
(15:40):
to criticize the harsh realities trans people face, but within
those realities there's also trans joy and empowerment. Here are
Vienno and Piano and Anamacho again.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I feel like Sustanciaquis Andrealis Momxico are both very much
much like channelers of the same energy and even that
Momhico like as a concept. Momhico is definitely present in
my album, but I feel like it's present in my
life and it's present in like my everyday life because
it's like, how do I take this horrible, horrible situation
(16:15):
and just make it something like super out of this
world fantastic. I support delusions, be delusional, believe that like
you're happy, and I actively practice it. I would have
to be delusional. So even like aspire to want to
stay alive and do the things that I do. I
feel like Less and Mohico both kind of like are
(16:37):
a testament to like that true power within us and
like how to access it. And I feel like it's
just encapsulating that and giving it to people. Although they're
very different in everything, they're also very similar in the
way that they empower you. And I feel like that's
the bottom line here. Like most of my music and
that's the word I hear the most empowered, Like, oh
(16:59):
it empowers me and me feel this and makes me
feel powerful, and I love that. And I feel like
not a lot of music can take you there, you know, come, okay,
It's very It's it's a feeling.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
What is the world of subst anxieties?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
The world in which systemiciages exists would be something like
a Gotham city, but like ten times worse, which is
literally someone you know what I'm saying. So it's literally
some it's like a Friday night and you know a
(17:38):
lot of drugs. And I feel like I've never hidden this,
and I've talked openly about like the abuse. Never do
I want to feel like I'm glorifying it. I always
talk about, like, you know, the importance of just stating
it as it is. I'm not saying that it's correct
or incorrect to like live as we do, but it's
it's no secret that, you know, we consume a lot
of different substances because we need to associate. It's true,
(18:00):
like we need to just kind of like escape for
a bit.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
There's a lot of he then is some queer life.
You explore a lot just pursuing, like pleasure and pursuing.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
And just things that are are not allowed to us.
I'm not supposed to aspire to that. I'm not supposed
to be in luxurious places or have access to that life.
I'm supposed to be in the gutter, and that's where
they want me. So it just like it comes as
(18:38):
a shock that like I have been able to overcome
all these obstacles and now I'm like just oh, sitting
at the table with the elites. But I would never
really want to be a part of them. It's always
like none of them have ever rooted for me, Like
they're all waiting for my downfall, and you know who
I'm quoting, so like, and it's just like me playing
the game and being you know, cute and playing into it.
(19:00):
And I feel like at all times, I feel like
like I'm a double agent, literally, and I take it
very seriously, as you should, and I make them feel like,
you know it's safe and that this is for them,
But I always have an ulterior motive.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
As you should. I always think that I feel like
Vianna is like a super villain, and I feel like
Anna is like a super heroin and I feel like
Viganna is like this dark rapper at night and and
I's like this really glossy, colorful pop star. And I
feel like the girlies need that, Yeah, they need a dualism.
They need to feed those both sides of themselves. And
(19:37):
I also think both Anamatu and Bianiano are just very
heightened versions of who we are as people and our experiences.
And I feel like our music is very personal and
I feel like if and I'm not sure I spat
it and I'm sure wrote it, I feel like na
is right. I know, I know, you know that's right.
So we're speaking from our own experience and who we
(20:00):
are going to Shali Momxico. I feel like I remember
showing you the demos for Halimmahico. I had such a
clear idea of what it was and what I wanted
it to be. I always described it as a magical
forest that's like connected to the beach. It was very
important for the project that it represented like nature and
(20:22):
that you felt like you were moving from the beach
through the forest, through like the city and creating this
very magical world which I feel like I was able
to access through recreational drug use and finding like my
caar power and my own magic inside. And I feel
very proud of what we were able to create with
(20:43):
that project than the world of Palimmaica like Alisma Mahic
is its own world.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Guando quhereassi.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Quandomeamous, and I feel like it wasn't I really started
doing the show like a bunch of shows back to
back to back. It's a very particular kind of thing,
(21:34):
Like my music is eminating a very particular kind of energy,
and I felt like I was like the Maria Shu
sema of trans music that will.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Never forget the time you told me that you felt
like you were really Colomne but trance, and.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I am the trance WILLI colomn to come on, I'm
just here to make Caribbean music.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
And of excellence because I feel like, you know and Blah.
For instance, it is just like when you go into
their productions, everything is like just it's mind blowingly excellent.
You know, the quality, the instrumentality, absolutely everything. So I
feel like we take it the same way. We're very
like serious artists, even though people might not see it
(22:20):
that way because of their own discriminatory like ideas. I
do want to say, however, that in Las Utancia Egis
was like very intense because I started doing this album
when I started like medically transitioning, so I kind of
like did them both at the same time. And it's crazy,
like medically transitioning is insane, and it's also like I
(22:41):
feel like it's a little bit of magic, and I
feel like I really got in tune with that and
I got to like feel some very big emotions and
that's why there's a lot of like aggressiveness. And I
would say the larger half of the album, and then
there's a point where I allow it to get like
a little bit more mellow, a little bit more sweet
towards the end. And and for me that was important
(23:02):
too because it's also like I like being soft, I
like being vulnerable, but I don't get to do that
because the world doesn't allow it for me. You know,
I always have to be a beast. When a man
is assertive, he's a boss, he's bossed up, you know.
(23:24):
I think that well, with regards to lesser fancies, I
could definitely say that is that one song that like
encapsulates everything that it's really about. It's like, okay, well
(23:46):
here I go to do drugs again and be like
a super baddy because that this is what you forced
me to do, right, And so then I'm going to
make a very very good good Like you know, there's
there's a level of which like you can make it
that's so good that it's like pop is pop music today?
To me, it's it's like sort of just me being
so upset that I'm just gonna make like a very
(24:08):
excellent record.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I want to say that I love Systems, and I
really love but I mean, she's that girl and I
totally get what you're saying. I know you get it.
I don't even know I get a girl. I know
you know I get it.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
That's what you know.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I'm song that I feel that I would really represent
what the project is about. Is the opening track and
a Plaia and.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
GETT.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I feel like that's funny because it connects with it's
a song about and I don't think I honestly don't
believe in the glorification of drugs, okay, but I do
believe in bodily autonomy. And I consider myself like an
activist for a bottle of the autonomy. And I know
people want me to be ashamed about something that I
(25:23):
find to be very beautiful, exciting that has connected with myself,
my body, with others, with the world, with nature. And
I feel like a playa was it's inspired by the
day before I moved to New York, I did Molly
with my best friends, like it was my goodbye party
and I was with my boyfriend and I was my
best friends and it was like, and we're in p Acondia.
Speaker 6 (25:46):
Do you have to go to like a whole forest
that you have to walk to get to the It's
literally called hidden Bitch, Like it's hidden so a girl,
it's hit.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
It's hit, So I did Molly there. I was like this,
it's like one of the most beautiful days of my life.
I want to encapsulate this in a song. It's just
such a beautiful song. I'm so proud of the production.
Like I think it was the song with the most
(26:19):
persons of it, most drafts. It had to be like perfect,
and I feel like it perfectly defines my project. It
perfectly defines what I'm doing. It perfectly defines the kind
of music that I make and the kind of artist
that I am right now.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I one hundred percent percent I'm just gonna go out
and say definitely different that I do. Have to say that,
like I mean when I that I have that should
saved everywhere. I listen to it like every now and again,
and it really kind of like puts everything into perspective
for me, and it makes me feel held and like
(26:58):
you know aa by well you know in this case,
like you know, in the larger sense of it all,
It's like sometimes the people who have held me the
most and who have like poured the most love into
me have been my friends. And I feel like it's
a very beautiful testament to that.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
I am.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Comment nice, La.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I agree with you. I always feel like this when
I write music. I feel like I am such a
hard person, like if you're around me, like outside of
the Animasha thing, like, I'm very comuk. My ascendant is capricorn.
I'm very blunt and very commok, very focused and intense.
And it almost feels like now when I'm writing music,
and music for me is like such like I'm taking
(28:01):
that off and it's almost like, girl, here's the secret.
I'm actually really sensitive, you know. That's what it feels like,
allowing myself to create a space because I feel like
I'm always like so on edge, I'm always so different,
and just in the sense that girl, I'm a star,
I'm literally a star. So I'm just very different, and
that's a very lonely feeling sometimes.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Exactly, I have to always be on point because somebody has.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
To do it, and somebody else are doing it, and
mom and the girl is are looking to us to
see what a bad bitch looks like. So I'm gonna
show them what a bad bitch looks like. But then
I feel like in my music and in my art
I'm gonna like, okay, Korea, Like there's a human side
and there's a way to be a bad bitch and
be like a romantic back bitch or be like a
sensitive back bitch. And it's like and it's empowering to
(28:48):
admit things that maybe society doesn't want us to admit,
like that we're lonely, that we miss someone, or that
we're in love. Come okay, like the more gentle, softer,
more like vulnerable sites of the girl. And I feel
like that's very important. I really have had to learn
how to separate my experiences the person who I am
(29:10):
as a trans person trying to make guard and trying
to live and trying to do groceries and like bathe
their dog and you know, live their lives and go
out versus Aamasha. As a project. I started doing it,
and I'm because I felt like there was a need
for that type of music and the type of art
that I'm creating, Like I needed that for myself, so
(29:32):
I have to at this point remember that other people
needed to grow. I remember having story. I remember when
we were at that one club after my concert that
you had your show, and it was like we signing.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
In fifty eight.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
It was a fifty girl. There was this little punk
guy like she came up to us and they took
her hand and they were like, I need you to
know that I'm wearing this crap top because of you guys.
I'm wearing this because of you guys. And I'm like,
I can believe it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
It's a gudea in the community, specifically Empire. Just like
there's a newfound like confidence, you know, in a way
that like like because like it's a little bit I'm
not gonna say safer, because it's never that, but it's
a little bit more like celebrated.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I look, I just had the best time talking to
you today. It had we literally had to have this
conversation and there's a lot of things we haven't said
that we need to spill the tea on. Thank you
so much for like creating. Are you inspired me a lot?
Come I really considered your sister.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, it makes me feel like really really you know,
hugged and safe to like.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Period period. But it was nice talking to you. Have
a great rest of your day. Enjoy Miami. I'm out
here in my studio making beads. Mammy, I love you.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
That was Puerto Rican musical artists Riano Antiano and Anna MACHOs.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
Leonsis.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
This episode was produced by Julia Roja with help from
Elizabeth Loental Torres.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
He was edited by Daisy Contreras and mixed by j. J.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Carubin.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
The Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Cruzado, Marta Martinez,
Mike Sargent, Victoria Estrada, Rinaldo, Leanos Junior, and Patricia Sulbaran,
with help from Trau Perez.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Our editorial director is Fernandes Santos. Our director of engineering
is Stephanie Leveau. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our
associate engineer is Gabriel La Biez. Our marketing manager is
Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed by Janet Rubinos.
Look for us on social media Imasi Yes CEO.
Speaker 7 (32:17):
Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment,
building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians,
the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and Hispanics
In philanthropy.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I always talk from experience. I'm very autobiographical. So when
I get deep in it and when I get dirty,
you know, I'm sending shots, and the people who are
getting a shot at, they know who they are.
Hey, their listener, just a heads up that there is
some strong language in this episode. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I feel like Vianna is like a super villain, and
I feel like Anna is like a super heroin and
I feel like Viganna is like this dark rapper at
night and and I is like this really glossy, colorful
pop star. And I feel like the girl is need that.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Yeah, they need a dualism.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
They need to feed those both sides of themselves. And
I also think both Ana Macho and Banaiano are just
very heightened versions of who we are as people and
our experiences.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
From futur media and p RX It's Latino USA, I'm
Maria Inovosa Today.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Puerto Rican musical artists.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Bienno and Tiano and Anamacho on queer and trans utopias
and dystopias. Biano and Piano and Anamacho often created fantastical
worlds through their music.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
In their first collaboration, the song Munieka, Vienna and Anna
play with the word used in Latin America and in
the Caribbean to refer to trans women and trans women
who engage in sex work. In their video, the artists
imagine a Barbie Pink candy shop surrounded by a glamdap,
(01:30):
trans and non binary crew. They appropriate the word munieka
to celebrate their own identities as trans and non binary
people and create an anthem of liberation.
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Ye name Boom Boom Hey.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Raised in Maamon, a suburb of San Juan, Puerto Rico,
twenty seven year old Biano Antia, also known as Villana,
blends her love of salsa, rock and reggaeton with powerful
lyricism and an unmistakable flow. In twenty twenty two, Vienna
(02:21):
released her debut album. It's called Sustancia Echis. It's a
riff on the chemical X you know that secret ingredient
besides sugar, spice and everything nice that created the Powerpuff Girls.
The album is an embodiment of Vianna stepping into her
(02:41):
own power. Sustancia Echis has garnered millions of streams, as
well as praise from outlets like Pitchfork and Rolling Stone.
Then there's Ana Macho. The twenty four year old raised
(03:03):
in Gaguas, Puerto Rico, described themselves as a non binary
Caribbean pop star and I got their start in the
world of drag and then went on to pursue music
exploring genres that are rooted in the Caribbean and blending
it with top melodies Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Jermin, monic Sar Reply About You Vauelma.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Last year, Anna released their ep realism Machico, creating dreamy
soundscapes transporting the listener to Anna's experiences of falling in
love in the Caribbean, about feeling held and celebrated by
queer friends and community.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And although their music is often quite different, Diana and
Ana Macho have been friends for years. Today, the Yana
and Anamo get on a Call Vienna is in Miami
an Amato in Puerto Rico at their studio Mal Dad,
where both artists got their start. The friends talk about
(04:11):
the obstacles they each had to overcome in a male dominated,
transphobic industry and their use of magical realism in their
latest projects. Here are Ana Macho and Biano and Piano
in conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Hey girl, what's up? Hello Riana?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Hey Earlie go on the cay Go. I feel like
it's very complicated to paint a picture of what our
beginnings were like. I feel like it's interesting to know, however,
that I did get my startup right now where Anna
(04:54):
is sitting like literally in that place in in La
Mandald And that was basically like the only like helping
hand that I had ever. Nobody else in the industry
was like willing to just give us a shot at anything.
And you know, access to resources and access to like
quality resources to produce quality music were very scarce. It's
(05:15):
not something that like I had access to at all,
like growing up, or that I could just you know,
call somebody up and be like, hey, let me record this.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I agree with you. I feel very much the same way.
I think that my version of the Trenches really was
just actively trying to like knock on as many doors
as possible, and none of the doors open, And I'm like,
but girl, do you know the gift I'm bringing to
you by asking you to work with me? And I
feel like that literally taught me that I had to
(05:46):
learn how to make my own music, and I had
to learn how to produce it like in my bedroom,
and I had to like learn my own ship because
nobody was going to help me.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Because I remember, like the first song that I heard
of Anna, it was like this SoundCloud demo. I would
go back and listen to it over and over again.
It was like one of my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Bomos so I loves momo love it. Oh yeah, I
used to be such a melodramatic teenager making like Lana
do write music.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I see it, but I lived for it. You were
really doing that.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
When you started releasing music. Like the first song, like
the disc track you released was so bladset and something
girl that was years ago.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
And identities ago.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, that was like a couple of pronouns ago. Literally,
it was like the first time that I heard you
rap and ever since, like I remember seeing your first shows,
and I feel like we've always kept in touch in
a very particular way, like in a connected with our music.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
There's a lot of like seeing each other in the trenches,
but I know that you're in the trenches whip me,
and you're in the trenches too, so it's comforting to
know that you're also in the trenches.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I don't feel like I'm out of any trenches. Girl.
Every day it's a new trench. I feel like people
perceive us as very very successful. Wish we are, but
I feel like people think we're like Beyonce. I feel
like people forget the fact that we are really starting out.
Still we still have a lot of doors to knocked down.
(07:33):
The fact that we are trans people just makes it harder. Period.
So even if we have like high pervisibility, like the
high pervisibility is a trench in itself, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
See, like that's very that's you said something very deep
right there. You see, that's what I love about you.
You just really hit it over the head with that one.
But also I feel like us being trans people, everybody
knows about us, and people like equate that to status,
but the fact that we are queer people negates, you know,
the success that comes with that fame. I'm pretty sure
(08:05):
if I was a SIS straight man at the level
that I'm at, I would have access to a bunch
of other things that I don't have because of the
fact that I'm a woman and because of the fact
that I'm a queer woman. It's kind of like a
little inside joke, and everybody's in on it. That's not queer.
You know, everybody that controls the radio, everybody that controls media,
everybody that controls like everything else, which is like you know,
(08:27):
siss straight people will definitely like hop on the wave
when it's profitable and when it's like there's this big
buzz around it. But after that, it's like proops.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
First of all, the music industry is ninety nine percent
straight man, so which is something that's a guy like
consistently going into spaces that is just one male run.
And then you're like a trans person in the midst.
But then you're also like more talent than all of them.
That is like it creates a very particular, very othering dynamic.
(09:07):
I have, like a particular story, Like I'm not gonna say,
I'm not gonna name names, but I'm gonna spill the
tea on the story. Girl, can you believe I recently
went to this music video pitch. I presented the idea
for my mister video because I creative direct everything.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
You know, we both do. We have to.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I'm like, this is what I want, and this is
a song about feeling confident, feeling sexy, feeling beautiful, feeling cool,
feeling very positive about myself as a trans person, and
being with my trans people friends and cutting up on Kiki.
Suddenly like I present this the thing, and then we
have a follow up meeting with a new version of
(09:48):
my pitch, like the man the straight cist men who
are all over forty met up without me, and I'm like,
this is so strange. I already told them what the
video's about, Like, I literally already told them the scenes
I wanted that looks I want it, Like, it's so
strange that they want to meet up with me for
a new direction. Like the first thing they tell me
is that they wanted to change it so that I
(10:09):
was a sex worker in the video. And again, sex
work is work. It's none thing against sex work. I'm
against this random straight systment telling me that I have
to be hyper sexual in a music video where I
never consented to that. I never said that was the idea, Like,
and I literally told them like, first of all, this
is transphobic, pomp bump. Then when I was like, this
(10:31):
is transphobed. Let this be the last time you tell
a trans person that they have to be a sex
worker in their own music video.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Period.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
You should be a sex worker in their music video
if that's what you want to do, period.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And the fact that that's where their mind automatically goes.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
And I literally told them, you took my idea and
you put it through the male gigs.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And then also that not being your experience exactly because
I have done sex work and I did sex work
a long time until they like pursue music, so like
in my experience, it's there. And when I talk about
these things, well you know I have where to pull from.
Like I said, I'm very autobiographical, but that not being
your experience, and also like how disrespectful towards people who
(11:11):
are actual sex workers.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
You know, this is not me, Like, this is just
not me and you miss the mark, Like if you
if you actually first of all listen to my music,
saw my videos, like you would know that this is
so much not me and that you're projecting onto me
as a trans person, your ideas of how a transwoman
(11:32):
or how a trans person can be sexy, which the
only way for them is for you to be a
TRASHIATD hooker with them.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
There can only be one of us, you know, I've
talked about this so many times. We're a concepts to
them and it doesn't matter, Like I'm pretty sure they
all think we're the same thing, you know, because it's.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I'm sure I've gone to things and people think I'm beyond.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And I was at a bar with a friend Essona
yet like stops my friend and ask them are you on?
And I'm like, they're literally they're back.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
It's like to me.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
And then my friend looks at me because we were
like is this a joke? And I was like I
caught onto it really quick, and I said, yeah, yeah,
that that's that's that's her, and like I took a
picture and everything like of them and it was there
was me, and I was like, we are a concept
to these people. But you know, in hopes, I feel
like we have to sort of like you know, grab
(12:27):
that power back and be like, well, the same way
you gate keep a whole bunch of things. I feel
like I'm up for the gatekeeping.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
You're at the gates. You're at the gates keeping that gate.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
You're keeping that literally literally, And I feel like it's
also very important because it kind of like helps us
remember I don't know about that. We're not going to
forget the fact that like nobody gave us.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
The time of day. Ever, I want to say something
to that ban. I want to say something to not
very clear. We're referencing a very particular kind of attention
space and fame, which WHI is straight people famous because,
first of all, we're famous for the queers, the girlies,
the dolls, and the gays, and they're the real people
I do my shit for. They're the real people that
(13:11):
have been there from day zero and will be there
till the day I die, And they're the community that
is surround us. What happens with you and me, and
I'm sure that will happen with other people, is the
fact that when you, at some point you become so
gay famous, the straight people strut to notice, and then
they start thinking that they're you're doing you a favor
by giving you the time of day, and they don't
(13:32):
know that we're the I'm literally like coming down from
Olympus for you guys to see the tea and then disappear.
Straight men and straight people always think they're doing us
favors because they think they're the one in control. And
I'm like, do you know I'm literally a transcendental spirit
guide deity spreading love and peace throughout the world, and
(13:54):
you're just some straight guy with money.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Literally, do you know that my consciousness stretches across gender
spectrum and has literally got me Because I've had this,
I've had this, I've had time to think about this
and clearly so have you so you ate that you
said exactly what needed to be said.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Coming up on Latino USA, Puerto Rican musical artists Eno
and Thiano and Anamacho talk about their latest projects and
dreaming of queer and trans empowerment.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Through their music. Stay with us, yes, h.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
M h m h.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Hey we're back. Before the break, we were listening to
a conversation between Diano, Antiano and Anamacho, both trans and
non binary Puerto Rican musicians making waves in the music world. Now,
Anna and Vienna talk about their latest projects Realismo Maxico
and Substancia Ekis, and how they both use magical realism
(15:40):
to criticize the harsh realities trans people face, but within
those realities there's also trans joy and empowerment. Here are
Vienno and Piano and Anamacho again.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I feel like Sustanciaquis Andrealis Momxico are both very much
much like channelers of the same energy and even that
Momhico like as a concept. Momhico is definitely present in
my album, but I feel like it's present in my
life and it's present in like my everyday life because
it's like, how do I take this horrible, horrible situation
(16:15):
and just make it something like super out of this
world fantastic. I support delusions, be delusional, believe that like
you're happy, and I actively practice it. I would have
to be delusional. So even like aspire to want to
stay alive and do the things that I do. I
feel like Less and Mohico both kind of like are
(16:37):
a testament to like that true power within us and
like how to access it. And I feel like it's
just encapsulating that and giving it to people. Although they're
very different in everything, they're also very similar in the
way that they empower you. And I feel like that's
the bottom line here. Like most of my music and
that's the word I hear the most empowered, Like, oh
(16:59):
it empowers me and me feel this and makes me
feel powerful, and I love that. And I feel like
not a lot of music can take you there, you know, come, okay,
It's very It's it's a feeling.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
What is the world of subst anxieties?
Speaker 3 (17:16):
The world in which systemiciages exists would be something like
a Gotham city, but like ten times worse, which is
literally someone you know what I'm saying. So it's literally
some it's like a Friday night and you know a
(17:38):
lot of drugs. And I feel like I've never hidden this,
and I've talked openly about like the abuse. Never do
I want to feel like I'm glorifying it. I always
talk about, like, you know, the importance of just stating
it as it is. I'm not saying that it's correct
or incorrect to like live as we do, but it's
it's no secret that, you know, we consume a lot
of different substances because we need to associate. It's true,
(18:00):
like we need to just kind of like escape for
a bit.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
There's a lot of he then is some queer life.
You explore a lot just pursuing, like pleasure and pursuing.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
And just things that are are not allowed to us.
I'm not supposed to aspire to that. I'm not supposed
to be in luxurious places or have access to that life.
I'm supposed to be in the gutter, and that's where
they want me. So it just like it comes as
(18:38):
a shock that like I have been able to overcome
all these obstacles and now I'm like just oh, sitting
at the table with the elites. But I would never
really want to be a part of them. It's always
like none of them have ever rooted for me, Like
they're all waiting for my downfall, and you know who
I'm quoting, so like, and it's just like me playing
the game and being you know, cute and playing into it.
(19:00):
And I feel like at all times, I feel like
like I'm a double agent, literally, and I take it
very seriously, as you should, and I make them feel like,
you know it's safe and that this is for them,
But I always have an ulterior motive.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
As you should. I always think that I feel like
Vianna is like a super villain, and I feel like
Anna is like a super heroin and I feel like
Viganna is like this dark rapper at night and and
I's like this really glossy, colorful pop star. And I
feel like the girlies need that, Yeah, they need a dualism.
They need to feed those both sides of themselves. And
(19:37):
I also think both Anamatu and Bianiano are just very
heightened versions of who we are as people and our experiences.
And I feel like our music is very personal and
I feel like if and I'm not sure I spat
it and I'm sure wrote it, I feel like na
is right. I know, I know, you know that's right.
So we're speaking from our own experience and who we
(20:00):
are going to Shali Momxico. I feel like I remember
showing you the demos for Halimmahico. I had such a
clear idea of what it was and what I wanted
it to be. I always described it as a magical
forest that's like connected to the beach. It was very
important for the project that it represented like nature and
(20:22):
that you felt like you were moving from the beach
through the forest, through like the city and creating this
very magical world which I feel like I was able
to access through recreational drug use and finding like my
caar power and my own magic inside. And I feel
very proud of what we were able to create with
(20:43):
that project than the world of Palimmaica like Alisma Mahic
is its own world.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Guando quhereassi.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Quandomeamous, and I feel like it wasn't I really started
doing the show like a bunch of shows back to
back to back. It's a very particular kind of thing,
(21:34):
Like my music is eminating a very particular kind of energy,
and I felt like I was like the Maria Shu
sema of trans music that will.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Never forget the time you told me that you felt
like you were really Colomne but trance, and.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I am the trance WILLI colomn to come on, I'm
just here to make Caribbean music.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
And of excellence because I feel like, you know and Blah.
For instance, it is just like when you go into
their productions, everything is like just it's mind blowingly excellent.
You know, the quality, the instrumentality, absolutely everything. So I
feel like we take it the same way. We're very
like serious artists, even though people might not see it
(22:20):
that way because of their own discriminatory like ideas. I
do want to say, however, that in Las Utancia Egis
was like very intense because I started doing this album
when I started like medically transitioning, so I kind of
like did them both at the same time. And it's crazy,
like medically transitioning is insane, and it's also like I
(22:41):
feel like it's a little bit of magic, and I
feel like I really got in tune with that and
I got to like feel some very big emotions and
that's why there's a lot of like aggressiveness. And I
would say the larger half of the album, and then
there's a point where I allow it to get like
a little bit more mellow, a little bit more sweet
towards the end. And and for me that was important
(23:02):
too because it's also like I like being soft, I
like being vulnerable, but I don't get to do that
because the world doesn't allow it for me. You know,
I always have to be a beast. When a man
is assertive, he's a boss, he's bossed up, you know.
(23:24):
I think that well, with regards to lesser fancies, I
could definitely say that is that one song that like
encapsulates everything that it's really about. It's like, okay, well
(23:46):
here I go to do drugs again and be like
a super baddy because that this is what you forced
me to do, right, And so then I'm going to
make a very very good good Like you know, there's
there's a level of which like you can make it
that's so good that it's like pop is pop music today?
To me, it's it's like sort of just me being
so upset that I'm just gonna make like a very
(24:08):
excellent record.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I want to say that I love Systems, and I
really love but I mean, she's that girl and I
totally get what you're saying. I know you get it.
I don't even know I get a girl. I know
you know I get it.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
That's what you know.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I'm song that I feel that I would really represent
what the project is about. Is the opening track and
a Plaia and.
Speaker 6 (24:54):
GETT.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I feel like that's funny because it connects with it's
a song about and I don't think I honestly don't
believe in the glorification of drugs, okay, but I do
believe in bodily autonomy. And I consider myself like an
activist for a bottle of the autonomy. And I know
people want me to be ashamed about something that I
(25:23):
find to be very beautiful, exciting that has connected with myself,
my body, with others, with the world, with nature. And
I feel like a playa was it's inspired by the
day before I moved to New York, I did Molly
with my best friends, like it was my goodbye party
and I was with my boyfriend and I was my
best friends and it was like, and we're in p Acondia.
Speaker 6 (25:46):
Do you have to go to like a whole forest
that you have to walk to get to the It's
literally called hidden Bitch, Like it's hidden so a girl,
it's hit.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
It's hit, So I did Molly there. I was like this,
it's like one of the most beautiful days of my life.
I want to encapsulate this in a song. It's just
such a beautiful song. I'm so proud of the production.
Like I think it was the song with the most
(26:19):
persons of it, most drafts. It had to be like perfect,
and I feel like it perfectly defines my project. It
perfectly defines what I'm doing. It perfectly defines the kind
of music that I make and the kind of artist
that I am right now.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I one hundred percent percent I'm just gonna go out
and say definitely different that I do. Have to say that,
like I mean when I that I have that should
saved everywhere. I listen to it like every now and again,
and it really kind of like puts everything into perspective
for me, and it makes me feel held and like
(26:58):
you know aa by well you know in this case,
like you know, in the larger sense of it all,
It's like sometimes the people who have held me the
most and who have like poured the most love into
me have been my friends. And I feel like it's
a very beautiful testament to that.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
I am.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Comment nice, La.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I agree with you. I always feel like this when
I write music. I feel like I am such a
hard person, like if you're around me, like outside of
the Animasha thing, like, I'm very comuk. My ascendant is capricorn.
I'm very blunt and very commok, very focused and intense.
And it almost feels like now when I'm writing music,
and music for me is like such like I'm taking
(28:01):
that off and it's almost like, girl, here's the secret.
I'm actually really sensitive, you know. That's what it feels like,
allowing myself to create a space because I feel like
I'm always like so on edge, I'm always so different,
and just in the sense that girl, I'm a star,
I'm literally a star. So I'm just very different, and
that's a very lonely feeling sometimes.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Exactly, I have to always be on point because somebody has.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
To do it, and somebody else are doing it, and
mom and the girl is are looking to us to
see what a bad bitch looks like. So I'm gonna
show them what a bad bitch looks like. But then
I feel like in my music and in my art
I'm gonna like, okay, Korea, Like there's a human side
and there's a way to be a bad bitch and
be like a romantic back bitch or be like a
sensitive back bitch. And it's like and it's empowering to
(28:48):
admit things that maybe society doesn't want us to admit,
like that we're lonely, that we miss someone, or that
we're in love. Come okay, like the more gentle, softer,
more like vulnerable sites of the girl. And I feel
like that's very important. I really have had to learn
how to separate my experiences the person who I am
(29:10):
as a trans person trying to make guard and trying
to live and trying to do groceries and like bathe
their dog and you know, live their lives and go
out versus Aamasha. As a project. I started doing it,
and I'm because I felt like there was a need
for that type of music and the type of art
that I'm creating, Like I needed that for myself, so
(29:32):
I have to at this point remember that other people
needed to grow. I remember having story. I remember when
we were at that one club after my concert that
you had your show, and it was like we signing.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
In fifty eight.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
It was a fifty girl. There was this little punk
guy like she came up to us and they took
her hand and they were like, I need you to
know that I'm wearing this crap top because of you guys.
I'm wearing this because of you guys. And I'm like,
I can believe it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
It's a gudea in the community, specifically Empire. Just like
there's a newfound like confidence, you know, in a way
that like like because like it's a little bit I'm
not gonna say safer, because it's never that, but it's
a little bit more like celebrated.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I look, I just had the best time talking to
you today. It had we literally had to have this
conversation and there's a lot of things we haven't said
that we need to spill the tea on. Thank you
so much for like creating. Are you inspired me a lot?
Come I really considered your sister.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, it makes me feel like really really you know,
hugged and safe to like.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Period period. But it was nice talking to you. Have
a great rest of your day. Enjoy Miami. I'm out
here in my studio making beads. Mammy, I love you.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
That was Puerto Rican musical artists Riano Antiano and Anna MACHOs.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
Leonsis.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
This episode was produced by Julia Roja with help from
Elizabeth Loental Torres.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
He was edited by Daisy Contreras and mixed by j. J.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Carubin.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
The Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Cruzado, Marta Martinez,
Mike Sargent, Victoria Estrada, Rinaldo, Leanos Junior, and Patricia Sulbaran,
with help from Trau Perez.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Our editorial director is Fernandes Santos. Our director of engineering
is Stephanie Leveau. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our
associate engineer is Gabriel La Biez. Our marketing manager is
Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed by Janet Rubinos.
Look for us on social media Imasi Yes CEO.
Speaker 7 (32:17):
Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment,
building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians,
the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and Hispanics
In philanthropy.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
I always talk from experience. I'm very autobiographical. So when
I get deep in it and when I get dirty,
you know, I'm sending shots, and the people who are
getting a shot at, they know who they are.
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