Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music
Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy music. Expect hilarious moments and heartfelt yearning, purity culture and conservative politics- all in equal measure. Whether you’ve deconstructed, come out or renegotiated your faith, we hope you feel seen. If you’ve never given Christian music any thought beyond a punchline, we hope you’ll gain a deeper understanding of a subculture that’s shaping the world around us now. Join our Patreon or Buy Us A Coffee.
Episodes
Todd Fadel is our guest this week. He is an individual whose life experiences defy easy categorization. He was the lead singer of a Star Wars-themed side project to Tooth and Nail grunge band Sometime Sunday. He was a worship leader at a non-traditional church in Portland, Oregon. He helped run TOMFest. He's also a big fan of Evie.
Most of our conversation in this episode is about his work running Meow Meow, an all-ages ve...
David Dark is a life-long Nashvillian and an admitted member of what he calls "The Prayer Trade" as a professor of religion and the arts at Belmont University. In 2002 he published his first book, "Everyday Apocalypse: The Sacred Revealed in Radiohead, The Simpsons, and Other Pop Culture Icons." At the time he was involved in The Art House along with Leah and Charlie Peacock.
Now David has reissued the book as "Everyday Ap...
The English worship band Delirious (technically Deliriou5?) certainly changed church music and probably influenced a young Chris Martin of Coldplay, but was their lasting impact on music bigger than Nirvana's? That's the case made in a social media video by our guest today, Gabriel Wilson.
Wilson is a veteran of worship bands both as a musician and producer. He once toured with Delirious and has produced Delirious singer M...
Aaron Carnes is an expert on ska, but is self-aware enough that his book (and podcast) are called In Defense of Ska. Like Christian rock, when folks admit to liking ska they often brace for being mocked. Aaron knows something about both worlds since he was only allowed to listen to CCM growing up.
This conversation is wide-ranging, covering the roots of ska (Madness didn't invent it), the waves of reinvention it has surviv...
The Charlie Kirk Memorial in Arizona was a singular event that blended religion and politics in powerful ways. It featured a lot of Christian music. Brandon Lake, Chris Tomlin, Phil Wickham, Kari Jobe Carnes, Cody Carnes and Tiffany Hudson all led the 100,000 people in the stadium and estimated 20 million watching online in worship songs. To analyze what it means that these artists performed at this event and how their mus...
After 15 weekly episodes in season 3, Leah and Andrew chat about what else they've been up to this fall, what episodes they've especially enjoyed this season, and what they're looking forward to in upcoming episodes.
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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.
Chris DeVille wrote the book on the indie rock boom (Such Great Heights: The Complete Cultural History of the Indie Rock Explosion), but before he became a self-confessed "indie snob" he was a willing listener of Christian rock. In this conversation we discuss the influence of Pitchfork on musical tastes and how specific signifiers could have an outsized impact on critical coverage in the blog era. Artists discussed includ...
In 1985 the Contemporary Christian Music industry reached a cultural height it would never regain. That's the basic case that Tim Dillinger has been making lately in his Substack, God's Music Is My Life. With artists like Amy Grant, Leslie Phillips, Sheila Walsh, Tramaine Hawkins and Rez Band pushing the boundaries of CCM from the inside, and mainstream acts like Maria Muldour and Mr. Mister pushing into CCM from the outsi...
Katie Thornton loves radio. Her series The Divided Dial has delved into conservative talk radio and shortwave. It won a 2023 Peabody Award. And her piece for Rolling Stone, "Jesus Take The Dial" goes in depth on CCM radio giant K-LOVE's operations.
We talk with Thornton about how K-LOVE's parent company has used its non-profit status to build a broadcasting behemoth and the downstream effects that has on American culture. ...
Ozzy Osbourne died in July. He was memorialized as the "Prince of Darkness" and was a key figure during the Satanic Panic of the 1980s. But our guest Jason P Woodbury points out that Osbourne's genius was in marrying heaven and hell- and if you listen closely, he's not as different from Christian rock as you might assume.
Jason P Woodbury is an editor of Aquarium Drunkard and hosts their podcast, Transmissions. He also mak...
Larry Norman thought another world was possible. Christians would make daring, artistic rock music. Mainstream musicians would make earnestly explore their spirituality in popular songs. He started a record label and an artist management company to make this a reality. And though he could see glimpses of this world, it was fully realized.
Gregory Alan Thornbury is our guest this week- in an interview recorded in 2022. He's...
Larry Norman is widely recognized as the first Christian rock star. Recording with mainstream studio musicians The Wrecking Crew and later sharing a label with The Velvet Underground, Norman began his career singing explicitly about the values of evangelical Christianity on mainstream releases that didn't exactly light up the charts. But when Christian music publishers licensed his albums to sell in bookstores, sales went ...
Nathan Evans Fox is a country music artist, but he has a deep background with Christian music. In his viral hit single "Hillbilly Hymn" he brings the biblical concept of jubilee into the rural gas station.
Find more of Nathan's music here and look for his podcast "Yallidarity Social Club" soon.
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Register for Theology Beer Camp with our promo code RTDR for $75 off.
Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a mes...
Derek Webb was part of a remarkable success story with Caedmon's Call in the late '90s. But the more success he witnessed, the less he could keep quiet. Now in his solo career he stands confidently alongside the marginalized, even attending the Dove Awards in a dress.
Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.
If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https:...
In season two of Shiny Happy People, the Amazon Prime Original docu-series turns its focus to Teen Mania Ministries, the organization that made Acquire The Fire stadium events. These events are described in the series as "youth group Coachella." But Christian music was just the tip of the iceberg with Teen Mania.
To unpack the series, Andrew is joined by Krispin Mayfield, a fellow podcaster and licensed therapist who speci...
Glenn Kaiser has had a huge influence on Christian music as a musician, a festival co-founder and an outspoken thought leader. He was our top guest choice for our live taping in January of 2025 in Chicago.
While Glenn Kaiser is a singular figure in the world of Christian music, we are aware that Jesus People USA is a triggering topic for some listeners. For a more thorough examination of Jesus People USA check out the book ...
Mason Mennenga is really good at social media. You've probably seen his posts about evangelical culture, Christian music or VeggieTales. But he does a lot more than just that. He hosts two podcasts: A People's Theology and The BlackSheep Podcast. He has a YouTube channel. He writes academic papers on music. And he works in the admissions office of a seminary. His social media bio was once "Skillet's Wario" and last year he...
No new episode this week. Be back next Wednesday. Check our Patreon for some bonus content if you're interested.
Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.
If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app)
Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr
If you can't afford a donation, please tell f...
In 1998 it seemed like Josh Caterer had it made. His band, Smoking Popes, had three critically acclaimed albums out. They were signed to Capitol Records. He had married his high school sweetheart. But Josh had also just become a Christian and couldn't reconcile his rock band life with his new evangelical life. So he quit the band.
On today's episode hosts Andrew Gill and Dr. Leah Payne talk with Josh Caterer about that dec...
In mid-June NPR published a story with the headline "Christian music is experiencing a pop breakthrough." As podcasters covering the Christian music industry, we usually think it reached it's zenith of popularity in the early 2000s, so this article caught our attention. To dig deeper into the topic, we invited the article's author, Emma Madden, on the podcast. Our chat was wide ranging and gets into the influence of worshi...
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