ניר קורן - איך להוביל חדשנות, יזמות ויצירתיות בארגון

ברוכים הבאים לפרק נוסף ומעורר השראה בפודקאסט "מרעיון למציאות", בו נצלול לעולם העסקים, החדשנות והצמיחה האישית. בהנחיית שנהב גונן, הפרק הזה כולל שיחה מעמיקה עם ניר קורן, מנכ"ל ומייסד חברת בילדין, חברת חדשנות גלובלית.

הצטרפו אלינו כשניר משתף את המסע שלו בהקמת החברה.

גלו את התובנות על החשיבות של חדשנות בארגון, תפקיד הקהילה ושיתוף הפעולה בהנעת שינוי ארגוני, ואיך החדשנות הישראלית בולטת בזירה העולמית. ניר מדבר גם על חשיבות הלמידה, התנועה, ויישום מעשי של שיטות חדשניות בתוך ארגונים.

בעידן של שינויים מתמידים ומשברים, הפרק הזה מציע שיעורים יקרי ערך על איך להישאר רלוונטיים ולשגשג בעולם שמתפתח במהירות.

אל תחמיצו את ההזדמנות לקבל תובנות על סודות החדשנות הישראלית ואיך תוכלו ליישם את העקרונות הללו במיזמים שלכם. האזינו עכשיו והתחילו את המסע שלכם לעבר יצירת שינוי משמעותי ובר קיימא בארגון או בפרויקטים האישיים שלכם.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Just that, Nir Koren, who is the CEO and founder of Buildin,
a global innovation company.

(00:27):
Music.
Shalom, how are you doing here? Hey! So I'll say you're doing yourself a surprise,
because we've already recorded 10 minutes.
Look, I'll give you a chance. It connects you to one of the most...
We'll take a moment to the middle, and then we'll start with you.
It connects to one of the things that's important for me to put on the table.

(00:49):
At the end of this story, at the end of the 40 minutes or so we're talking,
I'll tell you at the end that innovation begins with the ability to make it
harder, and to make it as fast as possible, and as fast as possible, Yes.
So this is also part of the... It's not surprising, what we call,
that in the conversation... It's not surprising that in this conversation,
it's the only conversation in 30 episodes that... I thought it was cool,

(01:11):
and when I was asked in the title what to write for you, I said... I'm sorry for my series.
Write a new and bad-ass NIR Koran. I'm a bad-ass, and I expected someone on
the other side would tell me to stop.
It's possible that it's a bad-ass, and that's how it was published.
I'm a bad-ass. It's amazing, and now that you say it, I also believe that it's
related to this conversation, and it's not just that you know. Right.
But I will say that we really went here to the radio and said, what can happen?

(01:35):
We are only a few months away from a war. Only the whole world,
hey, hey, news, no news, yes, it happens, it doesn't happen.
I was this morning in the place we went to the air, we went to the air,
we came back, we are still a moment, instead of sending emails,
most things don't work, we will send a Yona, not a mail, like most of them lack
news. I came optimistic.
And now we will clean up a moment from the table and we will return to this

(01:57):
place. So Nir, who are you?
Who am I? I'm Nir Koren, I'm the CEO and founder of Bildin. I'm the father of
Itay, who is 11 years old. I'm the father of Alona, who is 9 years old.
I'm married to Dana, I'm 19 years old, since we met.
Today I'm leading Bildin. Five years ago I was CEO of the Israeli company for
a three-year anniversary. And before that, almost 10 years ago,

(02:17):
I worked at a big company, and there I brought the group to the leadership and
existence. Wow, a piece of a journey.
Yes, yes, a piece of a journey. And it tells me a lot about how you got to what you're doing today.
So I always like to say that a person goes on the street, he does his business,
for example, we worked together in the Israeli car for a year,
you were there as a manager, you did your business, you did well,

(02:39):
you developed things and so on.
A person goes on the street, suddenly, one day, he gets some idea,
he gets into, he gets into, did you see Inception? He got into some idea.
Can you tell us about this moment that, like, he fell for you?
About the moment when I realized that I wanted to build a building.
I don't think he, it wasn't like that. לא רוצה להקים את בילדין,
מבין שרוצה משהו אחר, כאילו, משהו נובט, יש איזה רגע כזה.

(03:02):
הרגע שבו משהו נובט הוא הרגע שאתה מבין אצלי לפחות שהגעתי לגיל 40 קח את כל מה
שאתה יודע לעשות ותנסה לחשוב איך אתה מצליח לתרגם את זה למשהו אחר שגם ייקח אותך
קדימה, ייצור לך סיפוק מאוד גדול,
ייתן לך משהו שהוא באמת מלהיב ברמה אישית הבת שאתה יודע שאתה עוזר,
עונה על צורך מאוד מאוד גדול של אנשים and I think Liv and you,

(03:23):
almost three years in the Israeli organization. We look at an organization.
That wants to be.

(03:48):
Relevant all the time and an organization that wants to bring something useful
Shabesh, nishel ta shela, mi amur laasot etze, shel mi hamesimah azot,
To keep the organization relevant, to understand how things are brought from
the outside, how the employees' ideas are brought, how they manage to translate
it in a journey between pains, challenges,
a lot of possible solutions, to connect it to money, and how the organization

(04:09):
preserves its ability to renew all the time.
To renew and change, and to encourage.
To renew and change, but it's not a change for a change, it sounds a little
bit philosophical, but it's not a change for a change, it's a change to really
succeed in fixing the pace.
I'm trying to think about the amount of tools that are around us that are tools.
Now, I don't expect, and I see it a lot in the organizations that we work with,
I don't expect them to find the tool. That's not it.

(04:31):
But how do you know to use these tools for your good?
What does it mean when you have an organization of thousands of workers,
and we see it more and more in organizations that are big, that are not sure
they're here in the next decade?
Yes. And we ask the question... That they're in some kind of stagnation. Exactly.
What are you supposed to do differently, and how do you do it with your people,
and how do you understand, at the end, where the soul is located?
That is to say, what is the big thing that you are supposed to start doing today,

(04:54):
in order to continue, at this level, to continue to remain relevant?
Some of these organizations see their competition in the eye,
day by day, in a line of profit, and some, when they are more public and other,
it's hard to see. Who is the competitor of a government office?
It's hard to see. Who is the competitor of a government company? It's hard to see.
As long as you succeed to see it, and you succeed to understand what other people
are doing, you understand that you have to do other things.

(05:17):
That what you decided, that the management you built, that the way you work,
that your product, that your service, that the way you communicate before a
decade, it may not be right for today.
And if it's not right, it means you're wasting time, it means you're wasting
money, it means you're not doing your best work.
It means you're not good enough for the customer.
In the public sector, we see it in the service for the citizen,

(05:39):
in the business sector, we see it simply in the prices of the services.
The significant change that we are experiencing now, especially in the last
few years, in November 23rd and the north, November 22nd, excuse me,
with the release of GPPT, is that the pace of change is becoming much, much, much more.
We see changes that are sometimes at the level of days and hours.

(06:00):
I will even add to what you say, and I will say even if we go not only to GPPT,
but even to the corona, that is, when you talk about change and changes,
it is not only in the war, it is not only at the level of progress and technology,
It's the ability to move and to be in a group, as an organization, as a person. Right.
And this ability to understand that if you don't get up and you don't do it

(06:20):
as a full organization, there's a chance that you're like in a game.
If you don't play, you're good.
Same thing here. If you don't try at all times to understand what the organization
needs to do differently, how it looks at the product level, at the process level,
there's a chance that if the processes are very simple, like starting to work
in an organization, Luchim hamozman, yav sikui shuvavodim mesoyamim yavateru
ala racon bichlal haagish korot chayim laavoda betuch eiron.

(06:43):
Ze relevanti besektor tziburi, ze relevanti v'anach royim etze bestartapim beheropa
kshanachnum lovim, ze relevanti bechavarot iskyot, ze relevanti bechavarot meshaltyot.
The change is the need to change to meet everyone. And the interesting part
is the ability to build mechanisms that allow the organization to really... That will do it.
In fact, mechanisms that explain how to jump, and not that they will have some
kind of dog bite. Exactly.

(07:04):
This is not the place of some kind of blessing. You brought here some kind of vision.
But how does an organization, in a systematic way, manage to create for itself,
and that's the significant role of the organization.
You can create here mechanisms that thousands of people will be able to keep
the relevant organization.
And even if you take a moment from the picture the organization still created
a mechanism that allows it to stay all the time in life otherwise you can see

(07:25):
the failure and we see organizations that do something like that and you say
I don't take it as a new organization I take it as a new organization when it
manages to create good mechanisms.
Once and twice that it is ready to fail and see a lot of things and try a lot
of things inside the organization so you're actually at the age of 40 you destroy
everything you know and you say wait a minute I want I bring this to organizations

(07:46):
but I want to break it down,
explain to them the method of bullying we call it, and create something like that on my own.
I don't understand a lot at the age of 40, it sounds like a long time,
but it's not, it's five years.
I mainly understand that I need to make a change, I tell Dana,
my wife, that I really like, listen, I need a month where I'll try to understand
what the next big thing is,
and Dana gives me the best tip she can give me, and tells me,

(08:07):
take your child with you, I'm going with Itay, Itay is 8 years old,
we're going to Vietnam for a month.
Enough. Yes, a big crowd. We're sitting there at 2 at night,
everyone is looking where you took me. A crazy journey with your child.
On the way we run and we're wide and we're running and we're finding.
And somewhere I return with some understanding of, okay, try.

(08:28):
Create things, connect things. I mainly learn there to listen to a lot of customers.
Every organization needs a person who will believe in it.
I had one like that. They call her still Mali Marton. She was a manager of a
change in Elta who said to me, amazing.
And I remember myself, I'm confused, and I say, listen, what am I doing?
I have no idea, I have no company, I have no, she said, great, run forward,

(08:51):
You know what I need? I'm with you. Run forward. What does that mean?
Does it mean someone who believes in you?
Someone who has some kind of project? Someone who has some kind of project?
Right. I would need a first project that someone would tell me,
look at me and say, great.
And the things that I was able to do at that moment were that,
but I don't have a logo. And I need someone to tell me, it's not interesting.
And I said, but I don't have a number, do it like you do. She said,

(09:12):
it's not interesting. Do you know how to do the job?
Great. I need you. Run forward. Take what you know.
I understand what you know how to do. Let's take it. Let's do this.
Let's work together. And for me, it did a lot of good.
For me, it gave me some security in this first step, like a baby when you do
your first step, and the things that in my eyes look very critical,
like I haven't chosen a logo, I don't have a number, it's like I don't know exactly how to...

(09:36):
And exactly those things that weren't important, what was very important was
to put on the table what we wanted to do, and I admit that the machine was very
convenient to come and tell me, great, that's what you want.
Let's help you on the first step.
Go. Actually, there are people who believe in you. Right, to do this project,
and also the ability to leave an organization in a good way is not understood by Elta.
That is to say, the machine was the one that said to me, great, run and do it.

(09:58):
Money will come and it will come to you, and Elta was the first one who said
to me, great, we believe in your abilities.
And there, that's how I'm building without understanding, that is to say,
later on I'll have to go and fix it, but it's also possible for me to try and
see what I can do, what I'm interested in doing, how big the gap is between
what I can guarantee and what I really succeed in.
In the end, it's not that different, because in the last 18 years,

(10:19):
that's pretty much what I do, I lead organizations in changes.
For me, it was important, because instead of working as a trader,
you're a trader. You have to do some kind of shift.
Exactly. It's a shift where you suddenly start looking at your business,
and try to ask what your business is doing.
It's a completely different story, when you're three months into this thing,
you discover there's corona. You don't have a word to use.

(10:40):
Right, you've talked about a lot of things. Right, and it's a crazy journey,
but in the end, when you look at
it, it always returns to the same basic question. Matthew did I say that?
וכמה ערך אתה מייצר? זה ממש מעניין, אתה יודע, לפעמים אנשים מגיעים לפודקאסט,
בדיוק בנקודה שמתחברת למשהו אחר שעשיתי באותו יום, לא יודעת אם אתה מכיר את זה.
זה יום הבוקר ראיינתי בעלת עסק, שהיא ממש בהתחלה, והיא מנהלת שנים,

(11:02):
שנים, והיא בהתנאה באה, כי היא רוצה עזרה באיך לנהל.
וכל מה שהיא הייתה צריכה לשמוע ממני, זה להגיד לה, את יודעת שאת עשית את זה עשור?
אני בטוחה, את התחלת את הדרך טוב.
To destroy it now and to continue on. And it could be that you need a few people

(11:22):
on the way to believe in you. And it's amazing that you're exactly at that point.
It's exactly the point. You need a lot of times, you don't need a lot.
You need one who will come and say to you, look you in the eye and say to you,
I believe in you. Yes. Move forward.
Yes. And at that point he will explain to you that it really doesn't matter
what color the logo is, even though it looked very critical to me.
What is the name that I will put in the name of the company and I still don't

(11:44):
have the documents like someone on the other side asks.
Yes. And I would need someone on the other side it's bullshit.
It's not interesting. It's really not interesting. Like many other moments in
the life of a building that we thought we were presenting something specific
or something else, and we sat in front of someone on the other side,
a customer, who told us, okay, that's not interesting. Yes.
But if I knew how to do this, and I remember that we look at me and Lior,

(12:07):
one on the other, and say, okay, we know how to do this.
That is, to make an adaptation from what the customers are talking about.
Right, from new pains that you recognize. Zahe, ki basof basof,
ikhala adbari meyafim, belaakim esek mishulcha, ashti yachol listake lachora,
bishum makom lo katuv, ma bildin chayivet lasot.
Nachot. Bishum makom lo katuv, ma bildin lo yachola lasot. It te sapek shirute whatever.

(12:28):
Lo maanyen. Im yesht tzorech shota nitkal bo, vyeshev mulcha lakuach,
shom lecha, takshiv, ma yita yodaya lasot etze,
ma yiti mukhal neshalem alze harbe kesef, va ata bemed yodaya lasot etze,
zi bidyuk ha makom, שצריך לשאול את עצמך אם כן זה מספיק מלהיב זה מספיק איך זה
מה שאני רוצה לעשות בדיוק האם זה מה שאתה רוצה לעשות שתהיה גדול שזאת שאלה תמיד
אבל תגיד שאתה נתקל בזה רגע בפעם הראשונה עם מלי,

(12:50):
ועשיתם את זה ואני מניחה שעשיתם את זה בדרך טוב והדברים שהיו יותר טובים פחות טובים
אבל אני מניחה שאם הניסיון שלך באמת עשיתם את הפרויקט כמו שצריך ואז אתה מגיע לדבר
הבא You need to break down what you did.
It's going to be the services of the business that you don't have a logo yet.
What do you do? It's a question you always ask yourself.
I think every business owner asks himself every time again. What services do

(13:12):
you offer? I can offer you 20. But can it be 21?
The answer is, does it hurt someone? If it hurts someone and I know how to answer
it, then it's probably 21.
Can it be that one of these 20 will drop from the list? You would have checked
two days ago. And I was there 24 different mechanisms.
Now, I can come and tell you, look, in regards to everyone in my opinion,
we'll talk about the conference, but I created this conference for me.

(13:35):
I wanted to sit in the first row and listen as best as I can.
What are my customers' real needs? What interests them? From my point of view,
it was the best course in my life.
That I created for myself. From my point of view, it's that there were 99 other
people behind me who also listened and were excellent.
But me and Hadass and Lior and Heli sat there. It's a team.

(13:55):
Yes. We sat there and heard the best we could to what they built and what was
successful for them. And it's possible that I think that something else was
successful here, but in their eyes, something else was successful.
And what was a failure here. And in my opinion, it's the best lesson is to understand
what the next thing they need.
And the day after, people will tell us, okay, I was, I heard about it on the stage.

(14:17):
Now, there's some subtext here, we present 24 things, and it's quite clear that
we are involved in some or most of them, and we know how to do it.
And even if you don't, you're very welcome.
There were some mechanisms and mechanisms that we're not involved in at all.
But actually, the work behind and before the scenes, with the person who presents them,
and actually the ability to understand what the product is, what the service
is, and why it's so interesting, allows us to take that list of things we know

(14:42):
how to do and evaluate it, and maybe reduce it to other things that were correct just a month ago.
So there are a few really interesting things here. First of all,
how did our second recording start? I'm looking at it for a moment,
everything's fine, so it's already fun.
So I actually thought to myself, me you say, wait,

(15:28):
when I help with a change management, then I actually want them to go down to
the ground, or what's called their organization or their customers,
to understand the challenges, the needs, to understand the ground,
and actually create a game.
Right. Right? And then you say, wait, I have customers, I want to help them make a change.
We walked it up. But, yes, in order for me to do this, I created a meeting that

(15:49):
I can actually understand later on better their challenges.
Right. Now, the main reason you do this is not because you're a native or because you're nice.
Why do you think you should be Nadiv?

(16:18):
Because in the end, you didn't come to make money from your ability to come
and hold the close knowledge.
Knowledge is something you want to share with others to get feedback from them,
to hear how you can use this knowledge.
I don't see myself as some authority that holds the knowledge behind this.
Aron says, I won't give it to you, I won't give it to you. On the contrary,
take it as much as possible.
What's really interesting for me to do, and from that we make our money,

(16:40):
is to take this thing, the knowledge we have, and to do great things with it.
It's really tempting for me to do things from organizations.
I'm not interested in coming and going back to the same lecture,
I, from my point of view, see ourselves as those who are willing to,
in our tradition, willing to pass lectures, willing to pass exams,

(17:00):
but it's just that I'm nice, every time we look at a course,
I say, okay, I'm willing to teach,
but on the condition that the second step is that the people who have studied
go out on the field in the organization and try to do things,
they succeed. It's important to you that things fall to the ground.
It's important, more than that, more than that. The second step is really to
go to the field and do things.
Some will succeed, some will fail. Because the third step says that you come
to tell us. And here there is another very significant role of learning.

(17:24):
And the last step, if you failed, then great, because I have a very good lesson
there. And if you succeeded, we came to the end. It's exactly the story of the conference.
We came to the end. You go to hear on the stage, and I know it's a conference
in the extreme, and it's on speeds, and you hear the four mechanisms of authorities
and organizations and the Ministry of Government.
It's also difficult to explain all this. But still, if you manage to take this

(17:45):
thing, you actually got gold in my eyes.
24 things, not others, and not maybe, and not Nokia stories from 40 years ago.
Today, during the war, you get a glimpse into the history of the organizations
that are, in my eyes, the most interesting in Israel.
So if for a moment, but let's talk about what is the social service,
because you and I know, and we know less.

(18:06):
So basically, within the fact that you have the business, and you work with organizations.
Shana Shania.

(18:40):
To learn from him, what... She stands behind a very
significant opinion, which I think Rani Rav once said, when we visited him with
a Japanese delegation, I think it was the Israeli embassy, and he said,
he entered, and he had about 10 seconds, he said, hello, everyone,
and then he made a statement about the fact that in the end,
as a public relations office, his greatest value, he said, there are many public

(19:00):
relations offices, and I connect between my customers.
He made a statement, and said a few more statements, and left.
And to me, it appealed to some Simon, because I understood that.
What can a building bring to the world? We don't work in silos.
I don't want to be another social worker who can work with...
Who works one-on-one. One-on-one. Who works with an organization, with each one of them.
What we try to do all the time with organizations we work with is to think about how they connect.

(19:23):
This morning, before we got to this idea, we came with the innovation community
of Hashmal's company to a tour in Microsoft.
Two organizations that we love, but one of the things I really love is that
the innovation communities that we build within organizations What does that mean?
Because a lot of knowledge was created there, whether it's in organizations

(19:43):
that are similar to each other, and then, of course, the connection between
the ministries of government and so on, whether it's in organizations that are
a little different, think of a government company in front of a regulator,
a government company in front of a body that they run, whether it's in organizations
that are much more different, think of what it means to have an business company
in front of a local authority, whether it's in places that are really different,
in one end of the scale, a fast startup that thinks very fast,

(20:06):
in the other end, The second is that it's a very, very strong organization.
And therefore, the partnership, almost for all the things we do.
I'm trying to think if there's anyone who doesn't, but I think it's almost for
everyone, that we're trying not to do only innovation within the organization,
but to understand how we can, in the third stage, to succeed in connecting that
organization to other organizations, to succeed in connecting a community.

(20:26):
In the first stage, we're creating an innovation community. In the second stage,
we're trying to solve challenges within the organization.
In the third stage, to go out, to understand who you can connect with,
who else you can think of, with who I can negotiate with these things because
in the end organizations don't live in a vacuum and if you want to remain relevant
you need to understand what others are doing completely I think that's also
one of the very basic principles that we worked on in the machine that is to

(20:48):
say this place of understanding the ecosystem whether it's in the health community
whether it's in the agriculture community in the nutrition community to understand
the ecosystem and to understand how we can share activity between bodies.
זה חלק נורא משמעותי ממה שאנחנו היום עושים בבלטין. ולכן הכנס יושב בדיוק על המקום
הזה שאומר, לא באתי להפגיש דומים עם דומים.
לא באתי להפגיש אנשים בתוך ארגון ולשכנת המשוכנאים. אני רוצה שהקצוות יקירו.

(21:10):
שלרגע אחד בחדר, וביום הזה היה שלב שבו הייתה הפסקה ועבודה בקבוצות.
ויושבו בחדר אנשים, בתוך היום הזה, היו אנשים מ-30, בדיוק מ-30 ארגונים שונים,
ויושבו אנשים, והיא משבס.
And suddenly a question, what can we do together? Even if you take the book

(21:32):
of 100 new innovations, it is
designed to come and show different perspectives. What can we do together?
This place of togetherness is not from a pleasure or something like that,
it is from a desire to show that cooperation and this approach of a full ecosystem
that works together creates value and gives much greater knowledge than what
is only available to the organization itself,
when it closes its doors and says, I don't want to be a part of this.

(21:53):
But I will say that there are several aspects of innovation here.
So you're actually helping organizations to introduce innovation.
You yourself actually created a global innovation company.
And you say, wait, even when I advise innovation, I do it in an innovative way.
Because I didn't hear anyone who actually advises, and then says,
let's take my resources and meet them, and they'll join each other in innovation

(22:14):
that everyone does, and then they'll cooperate, and then we'll do innovation over innovation.
And there's some very interesting thing that you're doing,
Shabbat Shalom.

(22:53):
I mean, wait a minute, let's raise your needs, and then we'll think about the
solutions, and then we'll think about if we can implement it,
and if we need it from the outside or from the inside, or what do we do?
Suddenly, in a moment, there's a solution in the shell, there's a challenge
that they've been thinking about for a long time.
And it was amazing to see that. Even after I told people outside,
after I left, they really see the possibility to do something so wide,

(23:15):
and to learn from each other.
But not to learn from each other. I mean, if I see you only,
let's say, a Jewish society, I say, go into an organization.
Tell them, make a direction within the organization, you'll get a new thing.
Take people to the decision-making table, people of different ages.
From different backgrounds, you'll get a new thing. Because within a new thing, there's a direction.
And if there's a direction, But no, you say, what, suddenly,

(23:36):
let's break all the walls, all the things, let's put everything in everything,
as I imagine, like a table with a lot of stones.
Exactly, that's exactly it. And that, in my eyes, is what saves us.
That is, it's also an event that you can't buy.
In my head, in another three or four years, it will be an event where there
will be a thousand people, from 100 organizations, and it will be broken,
and we will still keep the same principle of, we wanted a moment to share,

(23:58):
and you accept the criticism of things that are happening now,
of things that have succeeded, and things that have failed.
That no one is going to sell anything or convince anyone that it works great.
And it's precisely this collaboration that we say to ourselves, I want to share.
I also highly encourage the bodies that we work with to share with themselves.
To stand on the stage and say, fuck, we tried to do it. I said to him,
you can't do this to me. Later, you'll get me in trouble.

(24:18):
No, I'm not saying that. That's not saying. To say, fuck, we tried to do it.
Really, we tried. It didn't work.
It didn't succeed. So come on, understand for a moment and learn from our experience
what didn't work. And if it worked, then take it and destroy it and do it with you.
Yes. In the end, But in the end, it's about a broader view of whether you see
other people competing,
or other organizations competing, whether you see yourself, and you say,
okay, there's us, and there's this, and we're all competing,

(24:39):
and I come from the second view that says, on the contrary, everyone can do
things with you, you're not competitive, as long as you don't go on the street,
you say that all people on the street are competing with you, no.
There's what you do, there's what other people do. Because you think it's unique,
because other people can't do it like you, to establish such a society and do
what you do. Everyone can do it, but no one can be you.
So take what you know. Like, there's no one else who's you. Right. Take what you know.

(25:02):
Do it the best you can. There are other people who do amazing things.
I always like to say, there are companies that I'm proud of,
Bordeaux Phenovei, that do amazing things.
I see, I learn, I really like what they do.
It's great. I don't think that at some point we're competing with each other.
In general, all the perception of competition, as long as you're ready,
even with organizations, to share, and not look at, okay, if I say what we did,

(25:26):
then maybe another organization will see it and will take it from us.
On the contrary, they will take it from you. Zachita.
Someone will look at what you did and say, I want it like this,
but we have a great, wonderful organization.
And therefore, what we call walk the talk, so we try to share,
and I also very much encourage the organizations that we work with,
to go up on this stage, to tell, to say what they did, what they did,

(25:46):
what was lost. And not to keep all the facts with them.
And not only to keep, because the story of what you did here is a small part,
the most interesting part is what else you can do, and what you can do with other organizations.
Mm-hmm.

(26:26):
And to try them.
Today we use nearly 120 tools of different types. About half of them are tools
that we developed ourselves.
From what you learned, from what you do. Canvas, methodological tools that we
developed ourselves, that we
know how to come and say, we tried it a few times, it worked for us great.
Now, when I look at it like this, we actually created an organization that,
for sure, has some kind of unique and interesting way of doing it.

(26:49):
Because these tools, we can present, the connections between these organizations
you can present, and then you create is something that is much more interesting to me.
Again, if you look at the eyes... Yes, from what you like to do.
There are two really interesting things here that I heard. If I want to interpret
what you're saying, because you're saying things in a way, and maybe someone
who hears it, there's a lot to learn from what you're saying.

(27:11):
Even if someone doesn't work in a way, and they hear us.
Right. If I interpret what you're saying, I hear two things.
The first thing is movement, and the second thing is learning.
Now, I hear the same thing when I hear both of them.
So if I go to, say, learning, So I say, you always work on several levels of things.
There is one time that the organization learns from itself, from its own area,

(27:32):
or from the customers. You learn from the organization.
You learn from what you did in the past, but you learn from what the organization does in the future.
Then you learn separately from several different customers who actually do similar
things, but you can actually compare them or update what they do,
or allow inspiration, let's call it that, it's better.
And then another work is that after they heard one or the other,

(27:53):
maybe something new was created, And you will learn from what they learned, that you learned,
that they learned, if someone succeeds in following the word learning,
which I said now four times, but I said it to understand that there is really
deep, deep, deep learning here, and I'm not talking about technology.
There are circles of knowledge, circles, but they are a kind of spiral upwards,
because actually the best thing I can say today is, yesterday we passed a lesson on...

(28:18):
And it worked great. And then most of the chances that usually other organizations,
that is, if yesterday it happened, again, if it really happened,
and the feedback was excellent, great.
So you're a genius, so let's do it with us too. And these circles of trying
to understand, and trying a lot of things, and understanding what you can do
with one cause that will be relevant to another cause, is part that creates a lot of energy.
I'm sure I've dealt with these questions before I came here.

(28:40):
I decided to think, when I'm given the idea for a conversation,
I assume you can ask me all the questions in the world.
Wait, I'll stop you in the middle of this list, because it's really interesting.
And I want to say that I always hear you say the word model.
And what's interesting is that it connects both to movement and to learning.
Because I hear that what the organization, what you come and do,
is basically taking both the learning and the movement.
When we're in a movement, both as a business, both as people,

(29:02):
both as an organization, both as people who advocate for organizations,
people who are in a movement are actually people who can renew.
And people who are in learning are people who can renew. And people who can
model movement and new learning, And every time to show feedback to the organization,
it's people who can actually advise the organization.
This is a very, very important point. Because if you can manage to handle it,

(29:24):
it means that you understand what was here, and what is called the experiment, then you can go back.
Otherwise, you can look at things and say, okay, so these did something certain,
and these did, but I'm not successful.
One of the things we tried, even within the meeting of Building Blocks,
once a year we do this, and not just, the format of it says,
it's not just, tell me you made coffee by surprise, or tell me what you did in our street. But...

(29:48):
So if I want to talk about this, I don't replace you.
What's really interesting is to understand what was the problem that you faced,
what was the challenge, what was the mechanism that you put in place.
Tell me for a moment what was the result of this thing, which means what was
successful and what was failed.
Because in the end, if you think about it, what's interesting to you when you
look at the old, you don't say, I want to take such a mechanism or another mechanism.

(30:11):
What you really want to know is to hear what was the problem.
He didn't manage to run the management. She didn't manage to advance the change.
Okay, I'm dealing with this problem
as well, great. Now let's see what the solution is that was used in it.
Let's see if I can do what you're saying. Let's see if I can take the Ninja
AI that Yael presented from Nehru Terich. Can I do something like this with me?
But it doesn't start with a model, it starts with a challenge.

(30:33):
What was the big problem that the organization dealt with?
And I think that if you succeed in modeling it in this way, then there are also
a lot of models of mechanisms.
You can teach others the feeling that you learned and you can teach.
And there is a place where you can look at innovation as something that you
can help organizations use tools that are really modeled and they have a certain
rationality but in order to really understand how I take this thing I implement it in us,

(30:59):
even though it is one thing to work with a company a corporate company,
and with an organization that is a technological organization,
and a management it is a completely different world,
in Israel and elsewhere but in the end, if you have a good model behind such
a thing, it can hold the differences,
and the differences But in fact, they become much more interesting.
Yes. In such a time of war, even before the coronavirus, you know,

(31:19):
the trilogy of things, there is room in organizations for innovation,
and there is room for your business.
And how do you... I mean, I was at the conference, and it looked like...
I mean, if we take out the war, it looked like all the organizations are now engaged in innovation.
It's important to renew and move and such. How can you explain at all the engagement
in this period, and how do you see it in the face of to crises,

(31:42):
that we are crisis after crisis and it always intensifies and changes.
I would have to agree with this question in November. In November,
a little after October, we tried to explain, we tried to explain,
we got a call from an international company that said, we're trying to explain,
I'm in Israel, we're trying to explain to the world this double narrative.

(32:03):
Because when they look at us from the outside, they say, okay,
you're in a war. Right. And if you're in a war. You're dying.
And if you said exactly that you're in a war, and you said missiles,
and you said 500,000 in missiles, and I was also in missiles.
And so, we're taking a step back.
As we look at Ukraine. Ukraine is currently at war, so let's take a step back. Business-wise.

(32:24):
And if you're at war, then let's take a step back in business.
And if you're telling me that you're working as usual, and there's a difference,
there are two things that go together.
Either you're at war, or you're business as usual. Because war and business as usual don't connect.
They don't go together, right. And I remember that I went to give a presentation
on initiative within that company and their representatives in the world,
and I tried to explain the secret of Israeli intelligence.
What works here differently? I tried to come and show that there was a change until the war.

(32:49):
There is a lot of change. Especially now, we saw it in the first few months. Especially in the war.
Completely. The Israeli society that is making solutions and ideas.
Because everything is changing.
Completely. And in this place where everything is changing, there are a lot
of reasons why we are changing. And there is a lot of change here.
And there was a change before October 7th.
There is a change since then and will be after.
And I remember when I return, I say, come on, this is a great story.

(33:12):
How unfortunate is it that there is no one else to tell it to because in my
eyes, this is the story that we wanted to hold as a state at the narrative level
and to come and say here we are great,
there is innovation here, we were still, we are still and we will also be the nation of innovation.
I remember that when I returned to Israel, I mainly try to think what if,
what if I would have succeeded in connecting all those I know and do innovation,

(33:35):
all those leaders of innovative innovation, all those people in the ecosystem
that I know are doing innovation,
to connect them together to succeed in telling a story that its title will be
100 secrets of the innovation of Israel.
Now, it doesn't matter what's written in the book. That the innovation moment
is also not I bring technology to
Israel or Israel is the most advanced in technology, right? Right, right.
It doesn't mean you're the most advanced in technology, but it means right now

(33:58):
that the same mechanism, the same method, the same learning,
the same movement is happening here.
We're learning, we're in a movement, we're renewing, we're developing.
And there are organizations here that are always ready to come and think what
they're doing to stay relevant and to continue to lead and to serve.
And this thing, I remember that I'm returning to Israel, and I tell myself,
okay, what would happen, what if, in one year or so, they're using the term

(34:20):
what if, what if I could take all the people I know from Israel and the world,
and this way, on the way, on the flight, I would start to integrate more and more.
A flight is a good time. Yes. And you say, what would happen if I took all these
people, and I would be able to connect them to me, and each of them would put
their secrets, their secrets, I put 11 of them, and I went to tell them outside,

(34:40):
Israel.
And it sounds absolutely amazing. And why they wrote secrets and in what context.
And one of the things that we understand, I myself understand within this thing,
which was in the services I needed to the Israeli agreement,
and we start. And if we said,
We don't have another place.

(35:08):
Agiha la aretz kei senator,
And I take this thing, put 100 pictures of Golda Meir, and send it to people
and tell them, okay, in the end it will look like this, with 100 secrets.
Your head will appear... What is it, that there will be a book with these 100 secrets?
There will be a book. That there is none of it? That there is none.
That there is nothing? That there is nothing?
There is nothing. I tell them, listen, I wrote a post on LinkedIn about my 11 secrets.
Bring your one secret. Bring two. Like this, run forward.

(35:30):
Almost everyone comes and says, you know what? Come on, like,
what does it matter to me? Maybe money? No, so bring two, like Israeli.
Bring, come on, here are my secrets. And it's a question that's very interesting.
A book that I always go back to, that is, this idea of what makes Israel a new
country? Why are we really like that a new country? What's happening here differently? What?
Do you have an answer to that? I have a hundred. You have a hundred,

(35:51):
because it's the hundred secrets. So this thing turns into a book.
Now, one of the things that's interesting here is that it's really a question that's interesting.
What makes us a new country? After all, it's not the army. It's not the Falafel.
It's not the Israeli outside. It's a much bigger story.
And in my eyes, the moment I ask As I look at the questions,
I realize that I have gold in my hand.
That is, each one of them gives its perspective to what Israel has become in

(36:13):
the last century. What is so interesting here?
And this thing, we very quickly turn to the outside ministry,
we say, okay, what would happen if we had a book that tells us 100-100 years of Israel?
We say, great, but you don't have it. We say, okay, but if we had it...
What would you do with it? What would you do with it? We say,
okay, so we can think of some event where we'll print and divide the book,
and I say, great, so we have a book.

(36:34):
We say, you don't have a book. and I say, I'll connect it, there will be a book.
And we're the most, you know, the most hands, like, really hands-on about this thing.
We're going to create a book that we created and painted in this, with a lot of secrets.
The beauty of it is that it's not forgotten. That is, I'm not trying to explain
it to you, run and buy it. It's not there.
We found 200 copies of this thing, we went to share it in Prague,

(36:56):
in a meeting that dealt with the Israeli state, and we came and said,
if it interests you, for a moment, to understand what the state of the Israeli
state does, so here are 46 people who are doing innovation, Again,
this message of connecting between the groups we work with.
Here are people who come from 8 countries and here is a simple question what
is the secret of Israeli modernity,
and the ability to connect it and understand what actually some of the things

(37:18):
you see here people will look and say ok I agree I don't agree and that's the
central thing we wanted to do,
we wanted to transfer the message from Israel of war or against or against or
yes an operation or no operation to whether I think Israel is modern because
of this or whether I think Israel is modern because of this,
whether I agree Why is it important for you to make the transition from survival

(37:40):
and war to business and innovation?
Because I'm trying to make the transition from Israel to Israel or against Israel,
from negotiation to negotiation.
To what we're good at. Exactly. I don't want to convince you in a war,
yes or no. It's a battle that we might not be able to win.
I want to move you to the direction we're good at. Exactly. I want the conversation
to be about what makes Israel innovative.

(38:00):
And if you read this thing and looked at all the 100 secrets of Israeli innovation.
I want to get involved in this. Exactly.
Looked at it. By the way, for an interesting reason, very, very clear,
I'm going with two things on me. I'm Israel.
I don't know, I'm not Swedish, and I'm not... I'm Israel. In the end,
in everything we do, we're a society from Israel.
We rely on the Israeli civilization. The organizations we work with come from

(38:21):
Israel, and we need a change.
Yes. That is, in my opinion, in order for this thing called building to succeed,
I need Israel to be there, and a change in Israel to be there.
And to explain why it can be now.
So to tell you that in a perfect world, I would be happy if there was another
body that will come and say, here's the Israeli revolution, let's not talk about
conflict, let's talk about... So yes, there are bodies that do this and do this.
At the same point, in November of the year 2023, we felt that if this was happening

(38:46):
outside, I would say the opposite.
If they would come to me from the outside office and say, listen,
would you be willing to do this? I would say to them, yes.
If they would say, we're preparing something like this, would you be willing
to write it? I would say to them, yes. And then I'd ask the question,
why don't you do it yourself?
So we went, we created, we wrote a book, we had protests outside of this thing
that told us that this is it, we violated the Palestinian regime, get a,
There was an event, we told about this thing, we shared it, the only people

(39:09):
who received this book in the world are the people who were in Prague,
together with Israel's security, who were amazing and supported us,
but the message, one day, at one point in time, became the Israeli revolution,
and let's talk about what are the reasons that turn Israel into a revolution,
and not a conflict or war, until and against.
So, first of all, it's amazing, and amazing in general to do,

(39:32):
I mean, everyone does, you know, the extra mile they do in this war,
and everyone gives what they can, and the fact that you think that if in the
outside conversation, when you look at Israel,
they could make the speech, and think about what we're doing well,
and talk about it, it doesn't matter what their opinion is about the war.
And I want to say also, you agree with what you're saying in all this,

(39:55):
that you're saying, I had a vision, I didn't understand how it was going to happen,
but let's assume in a hypothetical world, where the vision that I now found,
where we have a book on innovation that explains all the secrets of innovation
in Israel, that will make people in Prague talk about war,
talk about how good Israel is in business and innovation and such.

(40:15):
If it will happen, I'm telling you that now it's happening, now I'm going backwards
as if it already happened.
And here there's an interesting secret that is not only related to innovation
and movement and not only to war.
There's something here that I think that anyone who listens to the episode can
take it as a really interesting idea that many times people are afraid.

(40:35):
I mean, how to create things and apropos of reality, how do you create things?
I have a idea, how do I make it happen?
And there's something really interesting here. I imagined it,
I actually saw it I said to everyone, let's assume that it's happening together,
here I even show you a picture, I said I put a picture of Golda,
imagine that it's already happening, you're in the gold market you're the secret of the gold market.

(40:58):
And you made it happen after you said, you passed them fast forward,
and then you returned the message. We have a podcast called Mirayon L'metziyot.
One of the tools we use in our programs, if it's something called,
in certain connections, in certain connections, we call it Amazon's approach,
which is called a news release.
How do you see the news release at the end, when this thing will work?
But at the end, it sits on some kind of very simple narrative that says,

(41:19):
start when you think it's the end.
Understand now what's supposed to happen at the end. I knew that at the end,
I didn't plan for a book to come out.
I planned for a poster to come out, which will have 100 fans and 100 episodes
after that the moment people the moment people said I said wait I have a problem
a very big problem within this cube within the image can we Shalom milim.

(41:39):
A benadam katav li shmoni mila. Akshava, oshetam, sakem oto vemetamced oto leze.
Avalu katav shmoni mila veze medim veonatan koteret veish po hamon tochen.
Azov shta oregit, oshetam, kshivu, epli zahav bayad, eshli po mea sodot,
ani tsarech amund, ki chelkam, katvu harbe.
A sefer, kama amud. Pas amorti, okey, lamo she se lo yese, betse, why there's no book.
And all the time this process, wait, when you say, what if?

(42:01):
Wait, so what if there's an image like this? What if everyone shared it?
And I think that in the end, when you say from an idea to reality,
one of the things that really helps or helps people to connect to your idea,
is if they manage to imagine it.
Not to imagine it at the text level, but show me a picture. How does it look in the end?
You go out to hear a lot of times with pitchers of startups,

(42:21):
employees in an organization that tell something.
The students that I teach I met Bashikelon and Gani Avne they tell you about
the misdemeanor even they show a performance from behind them and you say.
אני לא מבין. כן. תסביר לי מה זה עושה. זה מה? אתה כרגע מציע לי אפליקציה, אתה מציע לי פלטפורמה.
זה חפץ. אני לא יכול לדמיין את זה. זה נכנס בקופסה ולפעמים, כשאתה מראה ואתה אומר, אוקיי, זה הספר.

(42:42):
ככה זה נראה. עכשיו, זה לא משנה לך ולי כרגע אם כל העמודים פה לבנים או שהם מלאים
בתוכן. הבנת למה התכוונתי?
ואם פה את יכולה לגזור אחורה למה זה אומר לייצר ספר, I think it's critical,
here and does it in seconds, with all kinds of mock-ups and so on,
take a picture, put it on something. That's it, it was something very beautiful
that Liora was in the conference, right?
That actually some trick, that actually if you want to show someone some idea

(43:03):
that you have, and you want him to imagine,
and that's how you can narrow the gap and do it and already create it,
you can enter all kinds of AI tools, that whoever wants to, you can show him
that, but you can enter all kinds of tools and already create,
actually, the figure, or, for example, you want to build a falafel shop that
looks like a falafel shop in space, and you want to convince someone that it
can be built here in the basement.

(43:25):
So the whole problem is to tell him, I want you to create a picture of a falafel
in space, and then show it to the team that you want them to take you or invest
in you, and then, basically, the person can imagine it.
And here's exactly the... It's a great understanding, because,
let's just say, Lior, Lior Baran, just wanted to introduce us to Bilding,
Lior, something he presents on the stage, was born out of need with us.
Shabbat shalom.

(44:14):
If I were to show someone who doesn't know Persona my next door neighbor,
if I say my next door neighbor is a falafel eater, then to create a person who
eats falafel is exactly the person I imagine.
If I talked about a skin cell and she's 39 and she's a nurse, now suddenly.
Lekach את זה איי-איי ונתן לדבר הזה ייצוג. ופתאום כשאני רואה את הדמות,
קל להרבה יותר... לדמיין את זה.
גם לדמיין, אבל גם קל יותר לפתח אמפתיה. כשאת מסתכלת על האנשים שמקשיבים לנו עכשיו, מה את רואה?

(44:40):
את רואה אנשים בן-80, אנשים בן-40, אנשים בן-20.
הם שומעים אותנו כרגע באמצע ריצה, הם שומעים אותנו באוכל. ככל שאני יודע להבין
מי יושב בצד השני, קל יותר לחשוב על פתרון.
אז הלכנו לייצר שלושה כאלה. One actually helps to go from text to a description of a persona.
The other one knows how to take basic ideas and give you a feedback on your
idea and allow you to create another ten ideas.

(45:01):
Again, because we defined from the back what he was supposed to do.
And the third one knows how to take your first idea and create a picture for
you. Give me a mock-up, give me something simple I just described to you.
Give me a moment to see how this thing can be seen. Now, it's not that JBT himself
can't do it, he knows how to do it, But Ozer says that I built him and I defined
certain rules that will help you get there faster.

(45:23):
That is, I explained to him what it should be when I want to present the faces of a person.
And for me, for example, it's not interesting to see a whole body of a person
standing. I'm interested in seeing faces.
And I want these faces to be able to describe and put things in the background
that are characteristic.
And if he expands his face, then you'll see a little bit of his face on the
edge. That is, we defined a legality behind it that helps people.
Again, we built tools because we understood that if we want to present new signs,

(45:46):
I don't know.
With AI. And that's the big story of this thing. That is, innovation was there

(46:08):
before, it will be there in the future.
AI, there are a lot of people who do it. We're trying to focus on one thing
and that's the connection between AI and innovation.
How do you do innovation with AI? And some of these things change.
The ability to once put a lot of people in the room and say,
let's do a brainstorm, is less and less relevant.
The ability to ask the chat questions and get ideas from them is also less relevant.

(46:29):
He doesn't know the organization. In the end, it's said to be some kind of synergy. synergia.
Tavi regat ha'yedev ha'nisayon me'yirgun, Tavi regat ha'kelim she'layay,
ve'bon ha'naseh regal yetser mizzeh macho she'ra rabo yoter chacham,
yitzirati, mavrik, ota tnoa ve'ota lemida she'dibar me'layim.
Masha'u ma'enien she'chabti ba'kenes achay she'eretem etze she'im ata lokech
rayon, im ze be'yirgun v'im ze afilu rayon prati she'es lecha v'yotzer a mock-up,

(46:50):
actually, if we go to a falafel in space, I don't know why I touched it,
it's very easy to imagine it,
a falafel man who feels like he's eating his falafel in space,
and that's your dream, that's what you want to do in life, or that's what you
want to change for a moment as a worker, within your organization,
that you know there's something like that, as much as we also visually see things,
not only does the investor see the falafel in space, even if I see every morning

(47:12):
in the mirror, the falafel man in space, I have more ability to ask in my life, and to see.

(47:48):
On the ground. to see who has knowledge in space and who has knowledge in Falafel,
when this image is strongly in my head.
כי כל בוקר אני רואה את התמונה שאתם יצרתם עבורי, אז הסיכוי בעצם להכניס את זה
לחיים שלי בעצם גדל. אז ממש חשבתי על זה.
כי במקום הזה, ולגמרי לא, זה לא רוחניקי, כי זה המקום שאומר, תנסה רגע להסביר, מה אתה רוצה שיקרה בסוף?

(48:08):
זאת אומרת, יצרת פודקאסט, מעולה מרצית שיקרה בסוף.
פרק ועוד פרק ועוד פרק ועוד. זה לא המטרה, שיהיו יותר פרקים, אלא מרצית,
וככל שדעת לבוא ולהגיד, Okay, I have some kind of picture like that.
And I can also share it with others.
I have here the same process that I want in the organization.
How does it look when it succeeds?
And many times in the first stage, people say, Okay, when it succeeds,

(48:28):
I have a project. When it succeeds, it's not a success. It's not that, yes. A great project.
A great platform. How does it look when it succeeds? I'll tell you about the
podcast that someone sent me, I know, wow, I heard the episode with Nir, and it changed my mind.
It opened my head. I suddenly know how to do the idea I intended.
It's like, ah, okay. Okay, because of that, I sat down to record with people.
So it's like that. To do that, you didn't really record a podcast for the purpose of having episodes.

(48:53):
You can record a lot of episodes like that. Like sometimes when you're helped
by AI to write something, so you tell it, okay, it can write for you,
you're all alone. Right. So you say, okay, so what do I do?
What's my role? Human. Yes. Not just human, but in the personal level.
What's the goal? Imagine a day tomorrow AI will be more complicated than you
can ask the questions. Yes. So what's your role? After that,
it's not to press play on this thing.

(49:14):
No. And I think the place that is very interesting is to succeed,
to translate for yourself, how it looks in the end when it succeeds.
So I want to make a jump for you, and we're almost at the end,
so how does it look when you succeed? Like, what would you like for a building?
Let's say we're looking, I like to say, even, you listen to this podcast for
another year, what do you want to hear?

(49:35):
When you said it, and you say, oh, I did this, or that, or that, or whatever we said now.
I remember it was the first week I woke up, and the first thing I did was to
remember the office, because I knew it was very important.
Wow, to make a logo. To remember the office. To make a logo without services.
To remember the office and to stop the logo. I was sure those were the two most
important things, and to think hard, hard, hard about how it would turn out.

(49:57):
And then I sat with my father, and I said to him, tell me, how would it look?
Like, what would you like? So I told him, listen, in another five years there
will be 500 workers and so on and so on and so on.
And then he said to me, son, I wish you not. I said to him, what?
How can you say such a thing? He said to me, leave it.
Leave it. You don't have 500 workers. It's a big responsibility. Come on.

(50:19):
T'nasser rega liyatzer mashu she chamesh motavdim zot lo matara.
V'yachol etzhe b'chamesh motavdim ata marviach pachot.
Yachol etzhe b'chamesh motavdim eshcha b'ikar balagan ala rosh v'ata asuk b'yachol
etzhe b'chamesh motavdim en l'cha nizma l'inchom.
Yachol etzhe b'chamesh motavdim kol mashper, kol korona, kol ze ata ma she nikra
motzad atzmecha besituazi acherat.
V'lechen, sheila ha-chashuva yi lo, zomart, ma ata rota sheikera basofa,

(50:43):
but not in terms of numbers or money or the amount of work. What is the big thing you want?
One of the things today that we look at projects, and there are always things
that you say, okay, is it enough to motivate us?
Can we make enough money from it? In short, can we make enough money?
And we look at the bodies we work with, and we look at it like a closed country
with a collection of customers.

(51:03):
And you say, okay, is this customer, is this body interesting enough?
And he makes money for the others in the group, will they have something to learn from him?
Will they not have something to learn from him? If together we can create something
very big. So that's one thing.
I think the second thing is, I'm very eager for us, for me, for Bilding,
to really be able to maintain that level of gentleness. It's very difficult

(51:25):
to be in a place that's gentle.
Because most of the time you're trying to think, okay, I'll take what I'm doing,
and I'll sell it. I can think about how I'm selling this book.
I can think about how... And if I'm gentle, then I can maybe sell it. Exactly.
And if you're gentle, then maybe tomorrow morning someone will take it,
someone will update it, someone will do this. And on the other hand,
the ability to hold this perception that says,
I'm not worried. And if someone will take it with love, and if someone will

(51:49):
keep it with love... Because there's more of me, right?
Because if all you're giving in this world is this thing, but this is what you did yesterday.
I'm often under pressure, like something happened, and I need to write about it in the world.
Let's wait a minute, wait for tomorrow or the next day, because tomorrow or
the next day, there's something else, bigger, much more exciting.
If I don't release it, I probably won't write about it.

(52:11):
And so, I'm telling us three things. One, in my personal opinion,
that I will be less aware of a war and an existential threat and if there is
a tomorrow in the morning.
That we know at least that we have one year ahead.
Once, a second, that we really succeed in creating that compatibility and that awareness.
One of the things that was very important to me in this event that we did,
is to come and bring people, we really chose them one by one,

(52:33):
each of these people, I wanted them to be there.
And these are people that I think could receive a lot, gave a lot,
received a lot, and I hope that this group will grow,
but still the ability to hold it economically, that is to say,
to bring 100 people if you want, to give them a full day, to fill their minds,
to feed them, it takes money, and you need to see that you succeed in holding it.
And thirdly, if there is something that mainly creates a balance among us,

(52:57):
and it's something that affects most of the organizations that we work with,
it's that in the end, it's not that I hold some narrative that says,
innovation for the benefit of Israel, and our work is in other projects.
It sits on the same narrative. That is to say, it's innovation for the benefit
of Israel with the organizations that we work with.
There's a direct link between this book, which deals with Israeli intelligence,
and our work with the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Education,

(53:19):
or the Ministry of Defense, or any of those bodies that, in my opinion,
actually define what Israel is.
We love and adore working with bodies that, the two thirds of them,
in blue and white, are behind these organizations.
In my opinion, intelligence creates impact, and the ability to take these organizations
and turn them into, to help them, to jump, to make the jump forward,

(53:39):
it's not that you helped another organization.
Yes. I want them all to do more Israeli innovation and innovation,
so that we can come and say, there is Israeli innovation here.
The next story, the 100 secrets of Israeli innovation, which we will write in

(54:02):
two years, is related to what we do every day.
So in the end, there is some kind of puzzle, I look at the students I teach,
and I manage to show them how it can happen here in Israel.
The organizations, that we work with and you want to help them
to make the story for you and in the end you can go out and
tell the world that there is Israeli innovation but it's not
a coincidence but it's not a coincidence the Israeli innovation

(54:23):
that you tell outside is what you succeeded to do with organizations and the
next generation that you help them understand so it's again the things that
you influence them that they are in some areas and if you succeed to do these
three thank you very much and we succeeded as other buildings to try to translate
what you do to sell something to someone to build another process peanuts,
There are a lot of companies that do innovation, there are a lot of companies

(54:44):
that do AI, there are a lot of... It's not the story.
The main story is the ability to look at things from above.
Yes. Are you able to get up in the morning and say, I'm looking at the Israeli
innovation and trying to understand what are the things that are supposed to
change here? What bodies are supposed to share action? Which bodies?
So that it will be much better for me and my children and my grandchildren.
Yes. And if you manage to connect between what you do in work and your perception

(55:06):
of Israel, it's great to have you and that you'll always be in this place.
And if we don't manage to do it, so it's probably going to be in things that
we say, okay, that's what we love, but from that we're participating.
I think there's this principle called Aikigi, which is really nice,
which says, try for a moment to see how these things connect.
Full of really interesting things. I think I'm the only one who's going to listen
to this episode really, full of times, just to sort out what we said,

(55:30):
what you said, because it really sounds very scary.
Last tip, last tip for, you gave a full, right, but for people who really want
to get out with their thing, it's like, it's one thing you say in a sentence.
Steve Blank said,

(55:58):
I can't tell you how many times I've returned to the sentence,
planning before the plan.
Don't show me business plans, and don't tell me about... Leave everything.
Show me planning for a moment. What big and significant problem do you solve?
Don't tell me you have a system that can cause the car to go in the air,
and how do you do this million thing? Explain to me the problem.

(56:18):
Explain to me for a moment, show me the planning for a moment.
What is the big problem that you're trying to solve?
And especially in these things, sometimes it's much easier to go and meet other
people and say, If tomorrow morning I had a solution that would be able to cause
a plane to fly in the air, would you be able to invest in it like this?
As a customer, would you be able to buy it? And if the answer is yes, great, we've advanced.

(56:39):
And many times at the beginning of the journey, I tell someone my idea,
and I say you don't tell your idea.
You didn't tell me how you cause a plane to fly in the air. We just tried to
understand if there's a need here.
If there's a need here, and by need it doesn't mean that people will want the
plane to fly in the air. Are they willing to pay for it?
100 dollars a month so the plane will fly in the air.
Because there's a chance that people will say to you, I'm glad that the cost

(57:00):
of air travel is 100 dollars. Really? No.
But if I found a very big pain, really, the problem that arises from people
who watch me on podcasts, that the cost of air travel is not wide enough, great.
Are you ready to pay for it 100 dollars? Great.
This is something that advances you 20 steps forward, rather than the ability
to come and say, let's stop the presentation, and here's the technology,
and here, and here, and here.

(57:21):
Come on, let's talk about the problem. Check that it exists at all,
and then you'll advance. Totally.
And in this story, this is very connected to the place of from an idea to a
reality between the transition from the idea that you have to the reality you
stop for a moment and not do a reaction of the solution that you suggested but
a reaction of the pain you understand that it hurts someone because if you describe
it to someone and he says I don't understand why would she care if the cup was broken who needs it,

(57:44):
Who needs a cup that heats up all the time and preserves the coffee?
I don't care. No, no, no, you don't even have to specify the idea.
It looks like I'll finish the coffee for you, just.
There's a chance. And that's why I think it's one of the most important things,
even within the organization, within the organization, for sure it's a startup,
for sure it's for people who want to raise a business from a salary or to make
a huge change in their career.
Try to understand. I would have been amazed if she told me, great,
run forward, I need this thing.

(58:06):
Because the need hurts me. The need hurts me and I need you to create this thing.
In contrast, if I didn't have this thing, I would have mainly tried to implement
things If I was going to go and say, okay, let's build an website and let's
define and here are all our services.
There's a chance I would find myself selling something or selling something
that no one needs. And so the question is very important.
Between the idea and the reality. Do some small action in the place of pain.

(58:31):
Understand for a moment that it hurts not only for one person.
There are a few people here who say it hurts me. It really hurts me.
I don't give up because of this thing. And if there was some solution.
Wow. I would be able to pay a lot of money for it. If that's not what you're
hearing. If what you're hearing is okay. Okay, nice. Great.
Good luck. It's not good enough. It's like in American, we talk like this. It's not good enough.

(58:51):
We want to know that we're giving a solution to something that people say,
wow, this is the most painful problem. Yes.
I don't have a solution to this. And we can get out of it. Great.
Nir, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you, Ashenam. It was a pleasure.
Thank you for being with us. We're invited to share the episode so that more
people know about innovation and initiative and you'll drop us five stars so
that more people can post to the podcast.

(59:14):
Thank you.