July 8, 2022 • 32 mins
What is codependency? And from where do codependent behaviors emerge? Every 'codependent' has an origin story. This is Brian's.
The paperback, eBook and audiobook version of the first two seasons of this podcast are now available on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYB1K31V
Our new book is available in eBook format! You, Me & Us: Moving Beyond Relational Trauma and Disorder (Anxious/Avoidant Attachment, Codependency, BPD) to Build a Stable, Lasting Relationship. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FC6KCKNT
* We have learned a lot as we have done this podcast. One thing Brian realized is that he underestimated the impact his parent's behaviors, particularly his father's, had on him. We talk about his father a little in the next episode on Trauma, but if you want to hear his updated thinking on the topic, you can listen to Season 3, episode 5, Beyond Codependency - Family of Origin
In this episode:
00:01:41 What is codependency? 00:04:47 History of the word 00:08:01 Codependency as maladaptive behavior habits 00:09:49 Origins of Brian’s codependent behavior habits 00:25:44 The specific behaviors that form ’codependency’
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie (00:05):
Hello, this is Stephanie and this is Brian. Welcome to our podcast the Making and the Remaking of a Codependent Mind. This podcast is about one man's journey through codependency. So the origins of the codependent behaviors, the damage the codependent behaviors did in his life, and then how he eventually was able to understand those codependent behaviors and through that understanding was able to heal both from the codependency and from the trauma that was at the
(00:34):
root of it. And that man, is you.
Brian (00:38):
That is me. I am Brian the codependent mind. A codependent mind. And this is our first episode. In this first episode, we're gonna be talking about what we mean by codependency first of all.
Stephanie (00:51):
Right, because there's a lot of different uses of that word,
Brian (00:54):
a lot of misunderstanding, I think a lot of assumptions based on just the word alone of what it means. And so not just that, but just kind of just a basic definition, some explanation of what we're talking about specifically and then getting into the origins of how it formed for me specifically,
Stephanie (01:11):
and then in later episodes, flesh out various behaviors that we tie back to codependency
Brian (01:17):
Yes, because there's a lot of kind of related behaviors that sort of work together to make the codependency deeper and stronger and tougher to to recognize and get out of,
Stephanie (01:26):
And each episode be that format where we'll go back and forth between your own story and what we've learned about codependency. Why don't you read the definition, the kind of working definition that high level definition that we're that we're going to use?
Brian (01:41):
Sure, so this is this is this is how we've come to define it. codependency is an imbalanced relationship pattern where one person assumes responsibility for meeting another person's needs, to the exclusion of acknowledging their own needs or feelings. The codependent person usually has low self esteem and will wind up denying their own identity to some extent, when they attach themselves to another often controlling manipulative or abusive person.
(02:06):
And we should say Here we're using codependent asan additive to, you know, a codependent mind, the codependent person, but we are not ascribing codependency as an intrinsic trait, right. So like they're tall, you're codependent like you're tall, or you're an introvert or it is not a personality trait. It is, again, a relationship pattern, a collection of behavior,
(02:35):
Right and also, we're not seeing it as some kindof diagnosis either, you know, like, for one thing, it's not even recognized. Actually, it's not it's not recognized as as an actual behavior disorder necessarily, but we don't it's not really relevant to what we're talking about here. Anyway, this is a collection of behaviors.
Stephanie (02:52):
So it's not necessarily recognized behavior disorder, but it's disordered behavior. And when it is so prevalent in your life when was so prevalent in your life we were calling it codependency. You were in a state of codependency. Because the behaviors that made up the codependency were so pervasive, really almost in relation relationship in your life,
Brian (03:18):
it becomes a habit just like, like any other habit, it becomes you become completely accustomed to this way of behaving and thinking,
Stephanie (03:26):
but we want to avoid and this is something that you've worked on saying things like I am, codependent, which suggests that it's, again some sort of intrinsic trait to who you are,
Brian (03:39):
we're just learning to cope with that or something like we're learning to accept the fact that I am codependent that's definitely not helpful we've found
Stephanie (03:47):
anyone can fall into codependency and anyone can get out of codependency it's not a life sentence as we found with you
Brian (03:54):
as we found as well as we're going to explore and this in this podcast.
Stephanie (03:59):
So working with that definition again it's an imbalanced relationship pattern and what we see as key to how we are going to use codependency is one person assuming responsibility for meeting another person's needs. I think that's really what we find to be at the heart of codependency right which is not always what other people place is critical to codependency.
Brian (04:26):
I mean, I think the correct definitions usually at least somewhat hit on the fact that someone is caretaking for someone else I mean that's that's a given when it comes to codependency but I think there's there's a sense people that just don't really know at all what it means or thinking that codependency just means there's two people that are dependent on each other
Stephanie (04:47):
A lot of that issue comes from the word itself. Codependency which is probably actually not that helpful word, but it comes out of it comes out of addiction literature,
Brian (04:59):
It started back in the 1950s with Alcoholics Anonymous, when it came to the partners of the alcoholic, so you have the the dependent person, that person that's dependent on drugs or alcohol. And then you have the codependent the person that becomes dependent on helping the addicted person for whatever reason they and this is this is where it starts to open up and like, Why is this person doing this? What are they getting out of caretaking and enabling the
(05:27):
dependency?
Stephanie (05:27):
So I mean, dependency even in the context of alcoholism has a problem. You know, there's always been this struggle for how to describe this phenomena, the physical and a psychological and emotional dependency. All of these things can happen when you become dependent on drugs or alcohol. But you know, we also talk about it as an addiction. We talk about it as a habit, we talk about it as a disease. And all of the all of those that question of how to
(05:55):
understand drug addiction dependency habit areequally problematic when we talk about this cluster of behaviors, that is now falling into the term of codependency.
Brian (06:07):
So with us, the core important theme here is that the codependent person, that person with a codependent behaviors is just somehow gets sucked into this pattern of meeting other people's needs. That's it. And then it comes down to who are these people that they're finding that they're needing to meet the needs of. And in my case, and in a lot of people's cases, that is a person that is has their own habitual pattern of needing to be taken care of needing their emotions to be regulated and
(06:37):
needing their needs to be met by someone else byan outside force. In my case, it was abusive, narcissistic type people.
Stephanie (06:45):
So I mean, this is why, where codependent the term, codependency becomes problematic, because you weren't enmeshed with people who were dependent on drugs and alcohol, you were matched with people who wanted their needs met,
Brian (07:00):
we're gonna get into a lot of specifics of the types of relationships that I had and in later episodes and the additional behaviors that came out of those but at an at a very basic level, the abuse dynamic is the the most important key in the codependency that we're talking about. So trauma, abuse, and then this dynamic of one person having all the control in the relationship and the codependent person me giving over all of my control my identity, my agency, and then the
(07:32):
behaviors that I came up with to cope with theshame and everything that came out of those kinds of interaction.
Stephanie (07:40):
absolutely there are people who get matched with drug and alcohol abusers, and they may be classified as or see themselves as codependent, they may be dependent on that dynamic for their own self esteem. But we're kind of doing a broader swath, there's always a spectrum when it comes to the severity of behaviors.
Brian (08:01):
And when we're talking about codependency we're, it crosses this line into this maladaptive behavior pattern that takes over the life, people that do caretaking for whatever reason here and there, because it's just their relationship goes that direction or something. As long as those people recognize what they're doing, and they make an effort to get out of that dynamic, then it's, it's not quite the same with a codependent person remains unconscious.
Stephanie (08:28):
And as you're saying, it's about the effect it has on one's life, yours really interfered with almost every relationship that you formed and put you in situations and relationships that were toxic to you and abusive. So the use of maladaptive is key, because it's behaviors that don't actually deliver anything to your life. They don't give you satisfaction, they don't give you they don't get you love, they don't get you intimacy. They get you the opposite of all of
(08:55):
this,
Brian (08:55):
at some point, the behaviors, the origin behaviors like we'll get into started because they did work. They were a coping mechanism to get through trauma, in my case, but then the fact that that trauma was never explored and understood and realized, then those behaviors just became maladaptive as you said that now I'm just doing these behaviors because everything reminds me of the trauma, childhood trauma, and then the the lack of, of communication and and intimate
(09:26):
communication with any other people basically. SoI these behaviors were formed, I formed these behaviors myself to cope with this situation, and never communicated that with anyone, and didn't properly form healthy emotional reactions and just took it from there and constructed this whole way of dealing with the world through that trauma. l
Stephanie (09:49):
Let's hear more about this traumatic relationship that you feel is the root of your codependent behaviors.
Brian (09:55):
Sure. Okay. I mean, before I get into that, I do think there's probably multiple sources, you know, observations and different people in my life that may have contributed to it. But I see this one particular friendship from my childhood as being the main source, particularly because it's the source of the trauma, and what I think really led to most of the codependent behaviors. So it was this childhood friend, it's I met him in kindergarten. And we were friends until fifth
(10:20):
grade, so about five years. This kid was kind of Isaw him as sort of a scoop school bully.
Stephanie (10:27):
How did you meet?
Brian (10:28):
We met in kindergarten, we were just we both were not into playing on the playground, really. So we were playing in indoors, just like with some toys, I think it was like a kitchen set or something. And we just sat down together and just started playing with this kitchen set. And then just gravitated towards each other and just started hanging out exclusively pretty much like immediately.
Stephanie (10:50):
So you were anywhere young kindergartner.
Brian (10:52):
Yeah, I was especially young. I was the second youngest in my whole school basically, in my class. I think it was four when I started. And most people were five.
Stephanie (11:02):
So he was your first friend
Brian (11:05):
Right, because I went to preschool before that, but I didn't keep in touch with those people. And those people went to my elementary school. So you know, this was the first kid I met, because like maybe on the third day of school or something, and then those first two years, we were in the same class. So in kindergarten in first grade, we were in the same class. But then I don't really remember much bad happening in this first couple years, really, I mean, I was really young.
(11:26):
But the teachers saw something, there wassomething about the way we behaved. When we were together we were disruptive. We were disruptive when we were together. So they separated us every every year after that we were not supposed to be in the same class. But there were always two teachers for every grade. And they put us in a different class. That was the only, I don't think they ever did that with anyone else. There was just us for some reason. I don't know if they told
(11:49):
our parents that or why, you know, I really don'tknow. But pretty quickly by partially through first grade, but but definitely second grade. These behaviors were coming out in this guy that I would say were psychotic, I mean, it, the way he like verbally assaulted and teased, and, and just kind of emotionally manipulated people, but then also didn't seem to have any empathy attached to it. Like he would do things that clearly, like really hurt people, and then just walk away
(12:20):
completely, just whatever with a smile on hisface, like didn't seem like something that you know, just like giving him pleasure. It was just like, I don't know, you know, it just he just seemed insane.
Stephanie (12:30):
And he would, he would direct a lot of that towards you.
Brian (12:33):
Yeah. So I would be it was this kind of double thing going on, where I had to witness him doing this to other kids. But then also, he turned it on me constantly. So because we were together a lot, not just at school, we hung out after school, I'd go to his house, we were in Cub Scouts together, he had a lot of access to me. And these behaviors were directed towards me, there was a lot of verbal assault and a lot of physical assault. And I didn't know what was going to cause
(12:59):
it. I never, I couldn't, you know, I justconstantly in fear, like when's the next time he's gonna get upset about something and start hitting me or verbally assaulting?
Stephanie (13:07):
And he would also be telling you that you are his best friend.
Brian (13:10):
Yeah. Oh, yeah, we were definitely supposed to be you know, that was the image that we were giving off to everyone and then he would bring in other friends into our group for temporarily and then throw them away in a really horrible way. But I wasn't allowed to bring any friends, I wasn't allowed to have any other friends. And so besides this, these kind of this daily fear of being abused, there was also this, he did gymnastics, and he wanted me to try to do the gymnastics too.
(13:36):
And I knew I couldn't do it and fix on the bars orlike flipping office swings and stuff like that from high up and I really didn't want to do it. I was scared, I knew I was gonna get hurt because I was constantly getting hurt. But it was either that or make him upset and abused me. So I went ahead and just tried to do the tricks and just sure enough, would always get hurt. So it's just like every day like what's your going to do today? What is he going to make me do today, so it was
(13:59):
kind of this slowly chipping away at my agency andmy identity, you know, because I also didn't feel as though I could suggest anything to do like let's play with toys or whatever. Like he didn't want to do any of the things that I wanted to do but I just tagged along, he'd be making fun of people I'd be just like like the toady the classic toady or something from from the movie. He had all the power.
Stephanie (14:25):
So what would what did that feel like? What did that look like when he's abusing or attacking other people, other kids.
Brian (14:33):
Well, I mean, I have a couple of stories that could illustrate that I guess. There was one one kid in particular I don't know what his because he didn't attack everyone. It was a strange you know, I don't know how he chose to attack certain kids and not others. But there was just one kid in particular that lived on a street that I was friends with. He was in our Cub Scout pack. We carpooled to school. This guy G, I'll call him G, he was in that carpool too. And every
(14:58):
day this other kid we pick him up and get in thecar and he just say you stink you stink just like this relentlessly, like saying how much he stank and stuff for the drive to school. And you could just tell this kid just didn't know how to react to it. And it was just making them feel not good about himself. But in this one particular time, we were walking around the neighborhood, and this kid comes over with this new big GI Joe vehicle, like it's this kind of large thing. And he was so proud
(15:23):
that he got this and he was all happy about it.And he's like, Look what I got, like what I got. And I don't know why he felt safe bringing it over to me and and this, this guy G. Because what happened was that G just grabbed it out of his hand, just threw on the floor and just broke into a million pieces. And then the guy just kind of shied away and started to walk away. And this I just felt so overwhelmingly bad, because I could see him start to tear up and stuff. And I just
(15:51):
went when G turned his back, I just gave him likea really quiet like, I'm sorry, I'm like apology, and then just followed G back to his house. That's just one example of one particular kid that he picked on.
Stephanie (16:04):
If you had, if you had other friends, you were in a vulnerable position yourself, because g would punish you. But also you had to then watch G attack this right this as well.
Brian (16:13):
Right. So I mean, there was another one, that's these two girls that we hung out with that, I don't know, somehow we formed this club. And we bring gifts to each other and things like that at one point of the girls wrote him a letter and mailed it to his house and it said, you know, I have a big crush on you and stuff like that. And I was over at G's house when he got this letter, and he read it and he was just like laughing at it. And he's like, this is so ridiculous. And he's
(16:40):
like I have to write her a letter back. And so hewrote this letter back that was like the most horrible, insulting, like you're the ugliest girl I've ever seen. I would never ever want to like go out with you. totally pointless, like, Why? Why? He just wanted to hurt her. He just really wanted to hurt her because she said she liked him. And it was just bizarre. And he went in hand delivered it to her house. And I tagged along, you know, I watched him write the letter. I watched him give
(17:09):
it to her. And we walked away and I saw her thenext day, she's crying.
Stephanie (17:16):
So one thing we should mention is this seems to be before there was such an awareness in schools, for instance, about bullying, because hearing you tell these stories, you wonder where all the parents in this situation? Including where were your parents?
Brian (17:34):
Well, yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's there's a call monitors or recess people and but there's just a lot of kids,
Stephanie (17:42):
but you know, someone was in the car when G was insulting your other friend. And yeah, you know, your other friend had parents and he came home with his toy broken. What did he say to his parents?
Brian (18:02):
Did they asked her why she was crying?
Stephanie (18:03):
And yeah, I mean, were they ever any incidents with your parents that you would have anticipated that they would have responded
Brian (18:10):
there was there was one in particular that that stuck with me and kind of caused me to hold on to some resentment because clearly, I did not tell them what was going on. But I feel as though they had plenty of opportunity to see. I feel like he was on a little bit better behavior when he was at my house. But he wasn't at my house very often. I was usually at his house and, and his parents just kind of were not around. And I his dad seems strange. I was kind of scared of his dad too. So I
(18:36):
don't really know what their dynamic was. He wasan only child. But so I there was this time we went to his family's cabin. And it was just a miserable time. Basically, he was kind of picking on me and hitting me like a lot during that trip. And we did dangerous things like that he wanted to do tha,as always, he just wanted to do dangerous things that I didn't want to do like like sit down on this blanket and slide down the stairs and there was like a wall at the end of the stairs. So
(19:07):
we hit the wall. He was okay getting hurt, Iguess. But I wasn't and then we had stuffed animals, that was what we played with the most and
Stephanie (19:15):
about how old were you at this point that when we went to the cabin?
Brian (19:17):
it was maybe three years into the race to maybe third grade or seventh. Yeah. And so we had these stuffed animals and he pretended like they were alive, which I never that's another whole story like that goes into. I could never tell if he was being serious or not like if he actually thought they were alive or he wanted me to pretend like I believed they were alive or something. But his we were both carrying our favorite stuffed animal and he accidentally dropped his into the
(19:45):
river and it floated floated away and we couldn'tget it. And he grabbed mine from me, which was an Alvin doll from Alvin and chipmunks and he threw it on the ground.
Stephanie (19:53):
This was your favorite stuffed animal.
Brian (19:55):
This is my favorite stuffed animal. Well, somehow he got he had mine his hand he threw it down I think when he was first trying to get his and and then when we came back, he's like, Oh, Alvin is dead. Listen, he's not breathing, he's dead. We have to bury him. I don't want to bury my favorite stuff down like, but you know I had to. And so we did and I no longer had my Alvin. And I went home and just when I got home to my house, I was just so relieved and happy to be home
(20:23):
and not on that trip anymore. Because it was justhorrible. And I started crying. The second I saw my parents, they had some friends over there sitting in the backyard. And they said, Well, what's what's wrong? I said, I have a headache, which is a really weird kind of adult thing to say, because I think my mom got headaches all the time. So I said, I have a headache. And they said, okay, cool. Why don't you go up and lay down, you know? And that was, that was that was the only
(20:47):
reaction not like, really a headache. And youknow, Why you crying, you know, and they didn't follow me up to see if I was okay, or anything. They just kept hanging out with their friends. And then that was it. That was the last I heard of it. They didn't ask me how the trip was or anything. And so I just thought that seemed like a little extreme to just kind of let that go.
Stephanie (21:05):
Well, it kind of probably also reinforced your sense of powerlessness.
Brian (21:08):
Yeah. Right, that I didn't really have anyone I could, you know, like, I already felt unsafe telling anyone about it. But now I especially when like, well, now I really don't think I can tell anyone about this. So yeah, that was just one other example
Stephanie (21:18):
so how did you eventually get out of this relationship? So it finally just ended.
Because you felt stuck.
Brian (21:29):
I felt stuck. I definitely felt stuck. And actually, I have to say, I did start to tell people about it. I told two kids at school about it. There was one friend I had in class, and I told him about it. And he's like, Oh, I wish I wish you can hang out with me and my friends and stuff. But I think he's basically acknowledged and understood that I was stuck. It was like he was kind of just like, well, you can do you know. And then this other kid who was super nice, kind of
(21:54):
Outcast type kid, I told him about and he's like,Well, let's go hide, let's go hide. And so we would go out and this was fifth grade. And we'd go out to the very corner of the field, this huge field that, you know, people played soccer and everything on and we'd hide and so basically, I would, I would ditch G every lunch for about a couple of weeks. It made me super, super nervous, of course, but the fact that I had this kid that was kind of supporting me and helping me and
(22:22):
saying I'll be okay, okay. And and then I wouldgo, I would see G, on the way back to class, where were you and I just I was looking for you. I don't know, I couldn't find you. I went to the library. You went there. And he would just sit, you know, the next day, it'd be like, Okay, here's where I'm going to be. And then I would ditch him again. And, and I knew that wasn't going to work forever. But then at some point, one day, he came and told me that his family was moving away, that they were
(22:47):
moving to another city far away that I would neversee him again. And that was probably the biggest relief I've ever felt in my entire life. By far up to that point. I think I had a really hard time containing that. I think maybe I might have teared up. But I was it was tears of joy. Maybe he saw that as tears of like, oh, no, I'm losing my best friend. Fine. He wrote me one time after that. I don't think I responded. For whatever reason I held on to that letter. And I just found it. A
(23:13):
week ago when I was going through my keepsakes andfinally threw it away.
Stephanie (23:17):
You got out of the relationship, but not by anyone helping you get out right?
Brian (23:22):
Not by using my own agency my own power. Yeah, or having an adult intervene. It was luck. Oh, just pure luck. Yeah, he just moved away. And that was the end. Then I immediately went and started hanging out with that kid said I wish your friend wasn'tabusing you.
Stephanie (23:41):
But from four to nine, say 10, those very formative years, this friendship taught you what it was like to be in a relationship?
Brian (23:51):
For the most part, yes, I should say that I had a strong loving relationship with my brother that whole time to actually my entire childhood. And that was a relationship where I felt safe. And I think in a way that shield me a little bit from, from the G relationship in that, that just helped me survive it overall. But definitely, overall, that relationship with G was the defining relationship of my childhood that kind of, because it because of the lasting effects that it had on
(24:23):
me and the fact that it caused all of theselingering behaviors.
Stephanie (24:28):
So this was a relationship in which you felt constant threat, even threat for your life. and you felt threat towards other people? And you had to develop behaviors to survive that relationship.
Brian (24:43):
And these were behaviors that did help me survive. I mean, I survived and without intervention from any adults or other people like I really in not having any skills. I mean, I hadn't learned anything I didn't know what emotions were even how to deal with those?
Stephanie (25:05):
So this is, you know, we refer to it be codependency behaviors being maladaptive. This is what we're talking about that and think it's important for people that have these behaviors to not feel shame around them because they developed in a situation in which they were appropriate.
Brian (25:23):
Right. It's not like people just one day go, You know what, I think I just want to care for other people more than I care for myself. It's it comes from something some specific, either single incident or, or something like this, you know, this series of dramatic series of traumatic events attached to one particular relationship.
Stephanie (25:44):
So let's just talk briefly about the set of behaviors that became maladaptive as you went through life, but were appropriate for the situation that you found yourself in that together form this web of codependency.
Brian (25:59):
Okay. Yeah, these are all the ones that I think came about from from that experience. And first of all, the feeling responsible for the emotions and actions of this guy, which is really a kind of a cornerstone of codependence right. I mean, just basically managing him managing his emotions in managing is his whole world didn't matter. I didn't matter in this in this situation, because that was expected.
Stephanie (26:23):
It was expected and it was violently enforced if you were not attuned to these emotions.
Brian (26:29):
Right, then there was caretaking which is kind of pretty much the same thing more or less but but I mean, that's an important one because that's that is also a cornerstone of codependency is it's caretaking the person's emotional and physical
Stephanie (26:42):
right, because your best best chance of feeling safe was to make him feel comfortable and cared for.
Brian (26:48):
It's a way of avoiding avoiding abuse that as long as he's happy and comfortable and feel safe, then I by extension, I'm safe, even though I never worked out that way. Well, it I survived. So there we go. It worked, right. I struggled to set boundaries, because it was on safe to happen.
Stephanie (27:07):
He saw no boundary between the two of you. Right? You were at his disposal.And if you tried to set a boundary, like by sneaking awayat lunch, that was very risky.
Brian (27:19):
It was extremely risky. I don't I really didn't have an end game for that plan. But you know, I have to wonder how that would have turned out if he didn't move awayyou know, I don't know then as people pleasing that which is kind of in the smae camp. You know, connected. But it is slightly different still to it's like kind of seeking validation and acceptance. And it's exploded out right, because I in this leads into the next one low self esteem and self worth,
(27:45):
right. So I just had such low self esteem fromfrom having no control over my life and feeling as though I wasn't doing anything I wanted and only doing what someone else wanted. So this people pleasing, is seeking validation, whatever, I can get any sort of external source of someone saying, Oh, you're a good person, you know, was just important for my survival. And then also trouble expressing my emotions, because I never really developed how to express my emotions, because I
(28:13):
had to keep them inside. It was unsafe to beangry. It was unsafe to be sad, you know, it was unsafe to feel empathy for other people. And I had to so this is where I learned compartmentalization, and then denying my problems. So you know, this was an awful friendship. Everyone knew it. There were there were kids that pointed it out to me directly. And the best I could do would just, you know, when someone asked me directly, once, when after I was
(28:36):
beat up on the on the field,
Stephanie (28:37):
another child again?
Brian (28:39):
Yeah, another child. Yep. Yeah. I don't know why no adults saw me getting beat up. But she asked, Why do you hang out with him? And my answer was, I don't know. That was it.
And then loyal to a fault. I have to be loyal tothis person, no matter what, it doesn't matter how bad of a person this is, I need to continue to survive. And that means doing whatever this person wants to do.
(29:02):
To repeat what we said early in this discussion,we don't see codependency as a personality trait.It is a cluster of learned habituated behaviors, behaviors that can get you stuck in unbalanced relationships, often with others who are alsodisordered. Because it is learned behavior. We think it is really important to figure out where those behaviors were learned. Essentially, what the origin story of the behaviors is.
(29:34):
Understanding that origin has been completely keyfor me, getting to the root of where it came from. And then that was a starting place for unlearning those behaviors, and then putting something else in place new behaviors, healthy behaviors.
Stephanie (29:50):
Your origin story involves the trauma you experienced in your relationship with G, and we suspect that a lot of people with codependent behaviorsalso have origin stories that involve trauma. So next episode, we're going to discuss trauma in more depth. How does it form? How is it different than other stressful, even violent events? What is it like to live with unhealed trauma?
Brian (30:20):
And we hope you'll join us for that discussion. And if you have any comments or questions or want to contribute your own origin story, you can find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching codependent minds.
Hello, this is Stephanie and this is Brian. Welcome to our podcast the Making and the Remaking of a Codependent Mind. This podcast is about one man's journey through codependency. So the origins of the codependent behaviors, the damage the codependent behaviors did in his life, and then how he eventually was able to understand those codependent behaviors and through that understanding was able to heal both from the codependency and from the trauma that was at the
(00:34):
root of it. And that man, is you.
Brian (00:38):
That is me. I am Brian the codependent mind. A codependent mind. And this is our first episode. In this first episode, we're gonna be talking about what we mean by codependency first of all.
Stephanie (00:51):
Right, because there's a lot of different uses of that word,
Brian (00:54):
a lot of misunderstanding, I think a lot of assumptions based on just the word alone of what it means. And so not just that, but just kind of just a basic definition, some explanation of what we're talking about specifically and then getting into the origins of how it formed for me specifically,
Stephanie (01:11):
and then in later episodes, flesh out various behaviors that we tie back to codependency
Brian (01:17):
Yes, because there's a lot of kind of related behaviors that sort of work together to make the codependency deeper and stronger and tougher to to recognize and get out of,
Stephanie (01:26):
And each episode be that format where we'll go back and forth between your own story and what we've learned about codependency. Why don't you read the definition, the kind of working definition that high level definition that we're that we're going to use?
Brian (01:41):
Sure, so this is this is this is how we've come to define it. codependency is an imbalanced relationship pattern where one person assumes responsibility for meeting another person's needs, to the exclusion of acknowledging their own needs or feelings. The codependent person usually has low self esteem and will wind up denying their own identity to some extent, when they attach themselves to another often controlling manipulative or abusive person.
(02:06):
And we should say Here we're using codependent asan additive to, you know, a codependent mind, the codependent person, but we are not ascribing codependency as an intrinsic trait, right. So like they're tall, you're codependent like you're tall, or you're an introvert or it is not a personality trait. It is, again, a relationship pattern, a collection of behavior,
(02:35):
Right and also, we're not seeing it as some kindof diagnosis either, you know, like, for one thing, it's not even recognized. Actually, it's not it's not recognized as as an actual behavior disorder necessarily, but we don't it's not really relevant to what we're talking about here. Anyway, this is a collection of behaviors.
Stephanie (02:52):
So it's not necessarily recognized behavior disorder, but it's disordered behavior. And when it is so prevalent in your life when was so prevalent in your life we were calling it codependency. You were in a state of codependency. Because the behaviors that made up the codependency were so pervasive, really almost in relation relationship in your life,
Brian (03:18):
it becomes a habit just like, like any other habit, it becomes you become completely accustomed to this way of behaving and thinking,
Stephanie (03:26):
but we want to avoid and this is something that you've worked on saying things like I am, codependent, which suggests that it's, again some sort of intrinsic trait to who you are,
Brian (03:39):
we're just learning to cope with that or something like we're learning to accept the fact that I am codependent that's definitely not helpful we've found
Stephanie (03:47):
anyone can fall into codependency and anyone can get out of codependency it's not a life sentence as we found with you
Brian (03:54):
as we found as well as we're going to explore and this in this podcast.
Stephanie (03:59):
So working with that definition again it's an imbalanced relationship pattern and what we see as key to how we are going to use codependency is one person assuming responsibility for meeting another person's needs. I think that's really what we find to be at the heart of codependency right which is not always what other people place is critical to codependency.
Brian (04:26):
I mean, I think the correct definitions usually at least somewhat hit on the fact that someone is caretaking for someone else I mean that's that's a given when it comes to codependency but I think there's there's a sense people that just don't really know at all what it means or thinking that codependency just means there's two people that are dependent on each other
Stephanie (04:47):
A lot of that issue comes from the word itself. Codependency which is probably actually not that helpful word, but it comes out of it comes out of addiction literature,
Brian (04:59):
It started back in the 1950s with Alcoholics Anonymous, when it came to the partners of the alcoholic, so you have the the dependent person, that person that's dependent on drugs or alcohol. And then you have the codependent the person that becomes dependent on helping the addicted person for whatever reason they and this is this is where it starts to open up and like, Why is this person doing this? What are they getting out of caretaking and enabling the
(05:27):
dependency?
Stephanie (05:27):
So I mean, dependency even in the context of alcoholism has a problem. You know, there's always been this struggle for how to describe this phenomena, the physical and a psychological and emotional dependency. All of these things can happen when you become dependent on drugs or alcohol. But you know, we also talk about it as an addiction. We talk about it as a habit, we talk about it as a disease. And all of the all of those that question of how to
(05:55):
understand drug addiction dependency habit areequally problematic when we talk about this cluster of behaviors, that is now falling into the term of codependency.
Brian (06:07):
So with us, the core important theme here is that the codependent person, that person with a codependent behaviors is just somehow gets sucked into this pattern of meeting other people's needs. That's it. And then it comes down to who are these people that they're finding that they're needing to meet the needs of. And in my case, and in a lot of people's cases, that is a person that is has their own habitual pattern of needing to be taken care of needing their emotions to be regulated and
(06:37):
needing their needs to be met by someone else byan outside force. In my case, it was abusive, narcissistic type people.
Stephanie (06:45):
So I mean, this is why, where codependent the term, codependency becomes problematic, because you weren't enmeshed with people who were dependent on drugs and alcohol, you were matched with people who wanted their needs met,
Brian (07:00):
we're gonna get into a lot of specifics of the types of relationships that I had and in later episodes and the additional behaviors that came out of those but at an at a very basic level, the abuse dynamic is the the most important key in the codependency that we're talking about. So trauma, abuse, and then this dynamic of one person having all the control in the relationship and the codependent person me giving over all of my control my identity, my agency, and then the
(07:32):
behaviors that I came up with to cope with theshame and everything that came out of those kinds of interaction.
Stephanie (07:40):
absolutely there are people who get matched with drug and alcohol abusers, and they may be classified as or see themselves as codependent, they may be dependent on that dynamic for their own self esteem. But we're kind of doing a broader swath, there's always a spectrum when it comes to the severity of behaviors.
Brian (08:01):
And when we're talking about codependency we're, it crosses this line into this maladaptive behavior pattern that takes over the life, people that do caretaking for whatever reason here and there, because it's just their relationship goes that direction or something. As long as those people recognize what they're doing, and they make an effort to get out of that dynamic, then it's, it's not quite the same with a codependent person remains unconscious.
Stephanie (08:28):
And as you're saying, it's about the effect it has on one's life, yours really interfered with almost every relationship that you formed and put you in situations and relationships that were toxic to you and abusive. So the use of maladaptive is key, because it's behaviors that don't actually deliver anything to your life. They don't give you satisfaction, they don't give you they don't get you love, they don't get you intimacy. They get you the opposite of all of
(08:55):
this,
Brian (08:55):
at some point, the behaviors, the origin behaviors like we'll get into started because they did work. They were a coping mechanism to get through trauma, in my case, but then the fact that that trauma was never explored and understood and realized, then those behaviors just became maladaptive as you said that now I'm just doing these behaviors because everything reminds me of the trauma, childhood trauma, and then the the lack of, of communication and and intimate
(09:26):
communication with any other people basically. SoI these behaviors were formed, I formed these behaviors myself to cope with this situation, and never communicated that with anyone, and didn't properly form healthy emotional reactions and just took it from there and constructed this whole way of dealing with the world through that trauma. l
Stephanie (09:49):
Let's hear more about this traumatic relationship that you feel is the root of your codependent behaviors.
Brian (09:55):
Sure. Okay. I mean, before I get into that, I do think there's probably multiple sources, you know, observations and different people in my life that may have contributed to it. But I see this one particular friendship from my childhood as being the main source, particularly because it's the source of the trauma, and what I think really led to most of the codependent behaviors. So it was this childhood friend, it's I met him in kindergarten. And we were friends until fifth
(10:20):
grade, so about five years. This kid was kind of Isaw him as sort of a scoop school bully.
Stephanie (10:27):
How did you meet?
Brian (10:28):
We met in kindergarten, we were just we both were not into playing on the playground, really. So we were playing in indoors, just like with some toys, I think it was like a kitchen set or something. And we just sat down together and just started playing with this kitchen set. And then just gravitated towards each other and just started hanging out exclusively pretty much like immediately.
Stephanie (10:50):
So you were anywhere young kindergartner.
Brian (10:52):
Yeah, I was especially young. I was the second youngest in my whole school basically, in my class. I think it was four when I started. And most people were five.
Stephanie (11:02):
So he was your first friend
Brian (11:05):
Right, because I went to preschool before that, but I didn't keep in touch with those people. And those people went to my elementary school. So you know, this was the first kid I met, because like maybe on the third day of school or something, and then those first two years, we were in the same class. So in kindergarten in first grade, we were in the same class. But then I don't really remember much bad happening in this first couple years, really, I mean, I was really young.
(11:26):
But the teachers saw something, there wassomething about the way we behaved. When we were together we were disruptive. We were disruptive when we were together. So they separated us every every year after that we were not supposed to be in the same class. But there were always two teachers for every grade. And they put us in a different class. That was the only, I don't think they ever did that with anyone else. There was just us for some reason. I don't know if they told
(11:49):
our parents that or why, you know, I really don'tknow. But pretty quickly by partially through first grade, but but definitely second grade. These behaviors were coming out in this guy that I would say were psychotic, I mean, it, the way he like verbally assaulted and teased, and, and just kind of emotionally manipulated people, but then also didn't seem to have any empathy attached to it. Like he would do things that clearly, like really hurt people, and then just walk away
(12:20):
completely, just whatever with a smile on hisface, like didn't seem like something that you know, just like giving him pleasure. It was just like, I don't know, you know, it just he just seemed insane.
Stephanie (12:30):
And he would, he would direct a lot of that towards you.
Brian (12:33):
Yeah. So I would be it was this kind of double thing going on, where I had to witness him doing this to other kids. But then also, he turned it on me constantly. So because we were together a lot, not just at school, we hung out after school, I'd go to his house, we were in Cub Scouts together, he had a lot of access to me. And these behaviors were directed towards me, there was a lot of verbal assault and a lot of physical assault. And I didn't know what was going to cause
(12:59):
it. I never, I couldn't, you know, I justconstantly in fear, like when's the next time he's gonna get upset about something and start hitting me or verbally assaulting?
Stephanie (13:07):
And he would also be telling you that you are his best friend.
Brian (13:10):
Yeah. Oh, yeah, we were definitely supposed to be you know, that was the image that we were giving off to everyone and then he would bring in other friends into our group for temporarily and then throw them away in a really horrible way. But I wasn't allowed to bring any friends, I wasn't allowed to have any other friends. And so besides this, these kind of this daily fear of being abused, there was also this, he did gymnastics, and he wanted me to try to do the gymnastics too.
(13:36):
And I knew I couldn't do it and fix on the bars orlike flipping office swings and stuff like that from high up and I really didn't want to do it. I was scared, I knew I was gonna get hurt because I was constantly getting hurt. But it was either that or make him upset and abused me. So I went ahead and just tried to do the tricks and just sure enough, would always get hurt. So it's just like every day like what's your going to do today? What is he going to make me do today, so it was
(13:59):
kind of this slowly chipping away at my agency andmy identity, you know, because I also didn't feel as though I could suggest anything to do like let's play with toys or whatever. Like he didn't want to do any of the things that I wanted to do but I just tagged along, he'd be making fun of people I'd be just like like the toady the classic toady or something from from the movie. He had all the power.
Stephanie (14:25):
So what would what did that feel like? What did that look like when he's abusing or attacking other people, other kids.
Brian (14:33):
Well, I mean, I have a couple of stories that could illustrate that I guess. There was one one kid in particular I don't know what his because he didn't attack everyone. It was a strange you know, I don't know how he chose to attack certain kids and not others. But there was just one kid in particular that lived on a street that I was friends with. He was in our Cub Scout pack. We carpooled to school. This guy G, I'll call him G, he was in that carpool too. And every
(14:58):
day this other kid we pick him up and get in thecar and he just say you stink you stink just like this relentlessly, like saying how much he stank and stuff for the drive to school. And you could just tell this kid just didn't know how to react to it. And it was just making them feel not good about himself. But in this one particular time, we were walking around the neighborhood, and this kid comes over with this new big GI Joe vehicle, like it's this kind of large thing. And he was so proud
(15:23):
that he got this and he was all happy about it.And he's like, Look what I got, like what I got. And I don't know why he felt safe bringing it over to me and and this, this guy G. Because what happened was that G just grabbed it out of his hand, just threw on the floor and just broke into a million pieces. And then the guy just kind of shied away and started to walk away. And this I just felt so overwhelmingly bad, because I could see him start to tear up and stuff. And I just
(15:51):
went when G turned his back, I just gave him likea really quiet like, I'm sorry, I'm like apology, and then just followed G back to his house. That's just one example of one particular kid that he picked on.
Stephanie (16:04):
If you had, if you had other friends, you were in a vulnerable position yourself, because g would punish you. But also you had to then watch G attack this right this as well.
Brian (16:13):
Right. So I mean, there was another one, that's these two girls that we hung out with that, I don't know, somehow we formed this club. And we bring gifts to each other and things like that at one point of the girls wrote him a letter and mailed it to his house and it said, you know, I have a big crush on you and stuff like that. And I was over at G's house when he got this letter, and he read it and he was just like laughing at it. And he's like, this is so ridiculous. And he's
(16:40):
like I have to write her a letter back. And so hewrote this letter back that was like the most horrible, insulting, like you're the ugliest girl I've ever seen. I would never ever want to like go out with you. totally pointless, like, Why? Why? He just wanted to hurt her. He just really wanted to hurt her because she said she liked him. And it was just bizarre. And he went in hand delivered it to her house. And I tagged along, you know, I watched him write the letter. I watched him give
(17:09):
it to her. And we walked away and I saw her thenext day, she's crying.
Stephanie (17:16):
So one thing we should mention is this seems to be before there was such an awareness in schools, for instance, about bullying, because hearing you tell these stories, you wonder where all the parents in this situation? Including where were your parents?
Brian (17:34):
Well, yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's there's a call monitors or recess people and but there's just a lot of kids,
Stephanie (17:42):
but you know, someone was in the car when G was insulting your other friend. And yeah, you know, your other friend had parents and he came home with his toy broken. What did he say to his parents?
Brian (18:02):
Did they asked her why she was crying?
Stephanie (18:03):
And yeah, I mean, were they ever any incidents with your parents that you would have anticipated that they would have responded
Brian (18:10):
there was there was one in particular that that stuck with me and kind of caused me to hold on to some resentment because clearly, I did not tell them what was going on. But I feel as though they had plenty of opportunity to see. I feel like he was on a little bit better behavior when he was at my house. But he wasn't at my house very often. I was usually at his house and, and his parents just kind of were not around. And I his dad seems strange. I was kind of scared of his dad too. So I
(18:36):
don't really know what their dynamic was. He wasan only child. But so I there was this time we went to his family's cabin. And it was just a miserable time. Basically, he was kind of picking on me and hitting me like a lot during that trip. And we did dangerous things like that he wanted to do tha,as always, he just wanted to do dangerous things that I didn't want to do like like sit down on this blanket and slide down the stairs and there was like a wall at the end of the stairs. So
(19:07):
we hit the wall. He was okay getting hurt, Iguess. But I wasn't and then we had stuffed animals, that was what we played with the most and
Stephanie (19:15):
about how old were you at this point that when we went to the cabin?
Brian (19:17):
it was maybe three years into the race to maybe third grade or seventh. Yeah. And so we had these stuffed animals and he pretended like they were alive, which I never that's another whole story like that goes into. I could never tell if he was being serious or not like if he actually thought they were alive or he wanted me to pretend like I believed they were alive or something. But his we were both carrying our favorite stuffed animal and he accidentally dropped his into the
(19:45):
river and it floated floated away and we couldn'tget it. And he grabbed mine from me, which was an Alvin doll from Alvin and chipmunks and he threw it on the ground.
Stephanie (19:53):
This was your favorite stuffed animal.
Brian (19:55):
This is my favorite stuffed animal. Well, somehow he got he had mine his hand he threw it down I think when he was first trying to get his and and then when we came back, he's like, Oh, Alvin is dead. Listen, he's not breathing, he's dead. We have to bury him. I don't want to bury my favorite stuff down like, but you know I had to. And so we did and I no longer had my Alvin. And I went home and just when I got home to my house, I was just so relieved and happy to be home
(20:23):
and not on that trip anymore. Because it was justhorrible. And I started crying. The second I saw my parents, they had some friends over there sitting in the backyard. And they said, Well, what's what's wrong? I said, I have a headache, which is a really weird kind of adult thing to say, because I think my mom got headaches all the time. So I said, I have a headache. And they said, okay, cool. Why don't you go up and lay down, you know? And that was, that was that was the only
(20:47):
reaction not like, really a headache. And youknow, Why you crying, you know, and they didn't follow me up to see if I was okay, or anything. They just kept hanging out with their friends. And then that was it. That was the last I heard of it. They didn't ask me how the trip was or anything. And so I just thought that seemed like a little extreme to just kind of let that go.
Stephanie (21:05):
Well, it kind of probably also reinforced your sense of powerlessness.
Brian (21:08):
Yeah. Right, that I didn't really have anyone I could, you know, like, I already felt unsafe telling anyone about it. But now I especially when like, well, now I really don't think I can tell anyone about this. So yeah, that was just one other example
Stephanie (21:18):
so how did you eventually get out of this relationship? So it finally just ended.
Because you felt stuck.
Brian (21:29):
I felt stuck. I definitely felt stuck. And actually, I have to say, I did start to tell people about it. I told two kids at school about it. There was one friend I had in class, and I told him about it. And he's like, Oh, I wish I wish you can hang out with me and my friends and stuff. But I think he's basically acknowledged and understood that I was stuck. It was like he was kind of just like, well, you can do you know. And then this other kid who was super nice, kind of
(21:54):
Outcast type kid, I told him about and he's like,Well, let's go hide, let's go hide. And so we would go out and this was fifth grade. And we'd go out to the very corner of the field, this huge field that, you know, people played soccer and everything on and we'd hide and so basically, I would, I would ditch G every lunch for about a couple of weeks. It made me super, super nervous, of course, but the fact that I had this kid that was kind of supporting me and helping me and
(22:22):
saying I'll be okay, okay. And and then I wouldgo, I would see G, on the way back to class, where were you and I just I was looking for you. I don't know, I couldn't find you. I went to the library. You went there. And he would just sit, you know, the next day, it'd be like, Okay, here's where I'm going to be. And then I would ditch him again. And, and I knew that wasn't going to work forever. But then at some point, one day, he came and told me that his family was moving away, that they were
(22:47):
moving to another city far away that I would neversee him again. And that was probably the biggest relief I've ever felt in my entire life. By far up to that point. I think I had a really hard time containing that. I think maybe I might have teared up. But I was it was tears of joy. Maybe he saw that as tears of like, oh, no, I'm losing my best friend. Fine. He wrote me one time after that. I don't think I responded. For whatever reason I held on to that letter. And I just found it. A
(23:13):
week ago when I was going through my keepsakes andfinally threw it away.
Stephanie (23:17):
You got out of the relationship, but not by anyone helping you get out right?
Brian (23:22):
Not by using my own agency my own power. Yeah, or having an adult intervene. It was luck. Oh, just pure luck. Yeah, he just moved away. And that was the end. Then I immediately went and started hanging out with that kid said I wish your friend wasn'tabusing you.
Stephanie (23:41):
But from four to nine, say 10, those very formative years, this friendship taught you what it was like to be in a relationship?
Brian (23:51):
For the most part, yes, I should say that I had a strong loving relationship with my brother that whole time to actually my entire childhood. And that was a relationship where I felt safe. And I think in a way that shield me a little bit from, from the G relationship in that, that just helped me survive it overall. But definitely, overall, that relationship with G was the defining relationship of my childhood that kind of, because it because of the lasting effects that it had on
(24:23):
me and the fact that it caused all of theselingering behaviors.
Stephanie (24:28):
So this was a relationship in which you felt constant threat, even threat for your life. and you felt threat towards other people? And you had to develop behaviors to survive that relationship.
Brian (24:43):
And these were behaviors that did help me survive. I mean, I survived and without intervention from any adults or other people like I really in not having any skills. I mean, I hadn't learned anything I didn't know what emotions were even how to deal with those?
Stephanie (25:05):
So this is, you know, we refer to it be codependency behaviors being maladaptive. This is what we're talking about that and think it's important for people that have these behaviors to not feel shame around them because they developed in a situation in which they were appropriate.
Brian (25:23):
Right. It's not like people just one day go, You know what, I think I just want to care for other people more than I care for myself. It's it comes from something some specific, either single incident or, or something like this, you know, this series of dramatic series of traumatic events attached to one particular relationship.
Stephanie (25:44):
So let's just talk briefly about the set of behaviors that became maladaptive as you went through life, but were appropriate for the situation that you found yourself in that together form this web of codependency.
Brian (25:59):
Okay. Yeah, these are all the ones that I think came about from from that experience. And first of all, the feeling responsible for the emotions and actions of this guy, which is really a kind of a cornerstone of codependence right. I mean, just basically managing him managing his emotions in managing is his whole world didn't matter. I didn't matter in this in this situation, because that was expected.
Stephanie (26:23):
It was expected and it was violently enforced if you were not attuned to these emotions.
Brian (26:29):
Right, then there was caretaking which is kind of pretty much the same thing more or less but but I mean, that's an important one because that's that is also a cornerstone of codependency is it's caretaking the person's emotional and physical
Stephanie (26:42):
right, because your best best chance of feeling safe was to make him feel comfortable and cared for.
Brian (26:48):
It's a way of avoiding avoiding abuse that as long as he's happy and comfortable and feel safe, then I by extension, I'm safe, even though I never worked out that way. Well, it I survived. So there we go. It worked, right. I struggled to set boundaries, because it was on safe to happen.
Stephanie (27:07):
He saw no boundary between the two of you. Right? You were at his disposal.And if you tried to set a boundary, like by sneaking awayat lunch, that was very risky.
Brian (27:19):
It was extremely risky. I don't I really didn't have an end game for that plan. But you know, I have to wonder how that would have turned out if he didn't move awayyou know, I don't know then as people pleasing that which is kind of in the smae camp. You know, connected. But it is slightly different still to it's like kind of seeking validation and acceptance. And it's exploded out right, because I in this leads into the next one low self esteem and self worth,
(27:45):
right. So I just had such low self esteem fromfrom having no control over my life and feeling as though I wasn't doing anything I wanted and only doing what someone else wanted. So this people pleasing, is seeking validation, whatever, I can get any sort of external source of someone saying, Oh, you're a good person, you know, was just important for my survival. And then also trouble expressing my emotions, because I never really developed how to express my emotions, because I
(28:13):
had to keep them inside. It was unsafe to beangry. It was unsafe to be sad, you know, it was unsafe to feel empathy for other people. And I had to so this is where I learned compartmentalization, and then denying my problems. So you know, this was an awful friendship. Everyone knew it. There were there were kids that pointed it out to me directly. And the best I could do would just, you know, when someone asked me directly, once, when after I was
(28:36):
beat up on the on the field,
Stephanie (28:37):
another child again?
Brian (28:39):
Yeah, another child. Yep. Yeah. I don't know why no adults saw me getting beat up. But she asked, Why do you hang out with him? And my answer was, I don't know. That was it.
And then loyal to a fault. I have to be loyal tothis person, no matter what, it doesn't matter how bad of a person this is, I need to continue to survive. And that means doing whatever this person wants to do.
(29:02):
To repeat what we said early in this discussion,we don't see codependency as a personality trait.It is a cluster of learned habituated behaviors, behaviors that can get you stuck in unbalanced relationships, often with others who are alsodisordered. Because it is learned behavior. We think it is really important to figure out where those behaviors were learned. Essentially, what the origin story of the behaviors is.
(29:34):
Understanding that origin has been completely keyfor me, getting to the root of where it came from. And then that was a starting place for unlearning those behaviors, and then putting something else in place new behaviors, healthy behaviors.
Stephanie (29:50):
Your origin story involves the trauma you experienced in your relationship with G, and we suspect that a lot of people with codependent behaviorsalso have origin stories that involve trauma. So next episode, we're going to discuss trauma in more depth. How does it form? How is it different than other stressful, even violent events? What is it like to live with unhealed trauma?
Brian (30:20):
And we hope you'll join us for that discussion. And if you have any comments or questions or want to contribute your own origin story, you can find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching codependent minds.
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Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!