October 19, 2024 • 39 mins
In this episode, we chat with Lauralee Whyte, the founder of Spectrum Speakers, a trailblazing agency promoting diverse voices in public speaking.
We explore why diverse representation is crucial, how it benefits both society and businesses and hear examples of the positive outcomes it brings.
Our guest shares tips for organisations looking to diversify their speaker lineups, handle client resistance to diversity, and predict future trends in the industry.
A must-listen for anyone passionate about inclusivity in events.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Hello and welcome to another episode of
a conversation with a Zing learning podcast.
Today we have the absolute joy of being
joined by Lauralee Whyte, who is the
founder and director of Spectrum Speakers, a fantastic
agency that helps to increase representation across lots
(00:33):
and lots of different events throughout the world.
Now, we've had some really, really good
conversations with Lauralee in the past.
We've even collaborated with her on
some fantastic projects as well.
And she's just got some really insightful things
to say today, talking a little bit around
lots of different parts of representation and why
it's so important and how we can contribute
(00:55):
to an even better system for greater equity.
We hope you enjoy it.
So grab a cuppa, kick back and take a listen.
Hello and welcome to another
(01:15):
episode of a conversation with.
This time we're very excited because we get to
spend to the fantastic Lauralee from Spectrum speakers.
Now, I'm not going to speak for Lauralee.
I'm going to get Lauralee to explain who
they are and a little bit about their experience.
Hi, Zoe.
Thank you for having me.
As Zoe said, my name is Lauralee.
(01:35):
My pronouns are she, her, and I am
the founder of Spectrum speakers and entertainers.
We are an agency dedicated to representation
within the speaking and entertainment industry.
I guess a little bit about my background is I've
worked in the events industry forever, pretty much like my
(01:59):
entire life in some way, shape or form.
There's kind of been events, but
in connection with people specifically.
That's a kind of top line whistle stop tour.
No, that's brilliant.
I actually didn't know you were in this industry
forever for your whole life, so that's going to
be really interesting when we talk about what you've
seen in the past and how that's connecting to
(02:21):
the work that you do now.
But of course, I know spectrum speakers
because we've collaborated on a project before.
We're definitely going to collaborate in the future.
But I'm really interested to hear a little bit about
why you set the organisation up and a bit about
your mission for the fantastic work that you do.
Yeah, absolutely.
I set spectrum up.
(02:42):
As I said, I've worked in the events industry forever.
I've worked with speakers as a speaker agent,
I would say, for the past six or
seven years, and there was just a massive
lack of diversity, firstly, and especially representation.
(03:03):
And I use the two
terms very intentionally and separately.
And it's funny because I feel like, not that I
wasn't that aware of it, but for a long time
I realised that I wasn't connected with what with what
I was doing, like, I was kind of like. I was just.
(03:23):
I just felt like I was going through
the motions and I kept thinking, what? What is it?
Is it that I don't like my job anymore?
I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
And it wasn't until sort of COVID came about
and, you know, obviously everything that happened with Black
Lives Matter and I think everyone became so introspective,
(03:47):
myself especially, and I realised I was really complicit
in just sort of like, perpetuating the industry of
just kind of white people, especially, like white males,
being the authority on everything and on anything.
(04:09):
And it kind of made sense.
It was like, well, I'm never being
asked to provide speakers or entertainers to
talk about anything but diversity.
And even that at that time was a kind of
afterthought and also something, you know, something that people were
just starting to talk about and think about.
(04:30):
But it wasn't, it wasn't really so much a value.
And, yeah, I just.
I actually had no ambitions to run my own business when
I kind of realised and I was like, okay, this is
the problem and this is how I can contribute to a
better system in a way that I know how.
(04:53):
I was like, I'm going to work for an agency
that's like super representative and really shares all of the
values that I have and it didn't exist.
So.
So, yeah, it came about because it was
a problem that I couldn't unsee and I
(05:14):
went into my network and I started building
my connections of speakers who not just talk
about diversity, but actually everything but diversity and,
you know, people from every single protected characteristic
across every single industry and subject and topic.
(05:35):
So, yeah, that was, that was really
how spectrum came about and why.
Why it needed to exist. What you.
I mean, ten things you just said that really resonate
with me because I was the same as you.
So I actually quit my job in February 2020,
which seemed like a really good idea at the
(05:55):
time because I'd got to the same point.
I felt like I was being complicit in
just perpetuating the same learning and the same
types of people that were accessing those opportunities.
And I didn't feel like inside an organisation I was
able to make the impact that I needed to make.
(06:16):
So actually I started to think about how
can I contribute to a better system?
How can I make sure I'm not part of
the problem and instead I'm part of the solution.
So, yeah, same as you, I actually was
applying for jobs when I was having coaching.
And through the coaching, I kind of
thought, actually, what am I doing?
There's so many rubbish Dei learning companies out there
(06:37):
that are just spilling off the same old rubbish.
Like you said, it's a bit of an afterthought.
You know, they do leadership development
programmes, but also Dei, or customer
service programmes, but also Dei.
And I was just like this.
It's not what I want to do, actually, the
whole sole focus on what we're trying to do
is to create better representation in general.
So that really resonates with me, definitely. That's.
(06:59):
Yeah, that's so. That's so funny.
It's almost identical to my
journey and thought process.
Yeah, definitely very different industries and obviously
we've had very different experiences, but we
clearly got to the same place.
Not necessarily at the same time, but
similar ish times in our lives.
Yeah, I'm really interested in something that you
(07:19):
just said, actually, which was that you keep
the words representation and diversity intentionally separate.
What did you mean by that?
I guess I mean that I get so many requests
for diversity speakers and it's a concept that I really
(07:40):
struggle to get across to clients because they think that
the only way to bring about diversity to their event
is to bring someone from a protected characteristic to talk
about diversity, namely to talk about their challenges, mainly to
kind of trauma mind sometimes.
(08:01):
And actually, that quite often, that
person isn't a diversity expert.
You know, they're somebody who's worked in
an industry for a really long time,
but they faced challenges because of.
Because of who they are and where they come from.
And it feels a bit like, well, let's bring on this
(08:23):
poor person to tell us about how tough their life is.
Rather than actually.
To me, representation is about actually
bringing that person into the event.
To say, I do this, I talk
about business, I'm a really incredible business
person, I'm an incredible innovator, I'm an
(08:44):
incredible creator, I'm a great technology mavende.
I just so happen to be a woman and I just so
happen to be black and I just so happen to be disabled.
You know, that's.
That, to me, is representation.
Yeah, I totally agree.
I'm nodding furiously.
Not that anyone can see that, but there's a
(09:06):
couple of things that you just said there.
I think there's something
about normalising representation.
So rather than, like you say, rather than it
being a trauma mining or whatever else we're actually
saying, not everybody's experience is horrific, but there are
some aspects to that experience that are important to
hear from a different perspective as well.
And I think that's just as important
(09:28):
as talking about the reality of under
representation for lots of different marginalised groups.
I've got a really good friend of mine
who is from the LGBTQ community, very proud
and out there and super flamboyant and amazing
individual and very successful in their HR career.
(09:48):
And I remember asking him if he wanted to
come on to the podcast and he said, I
can, but I don't really have any horror stories.
Like, life's actually been pretty great, apart
from some of the more obvious social
and kind of systematic things.
And I said, but that's great.
Why does it always have to be doom and gloom?
It's really important to look at both
sides of it and I think that's
(10:09):
something the spectrum do really, really well.
Thank you. Yeah, that's.
That's kind of one of the things that we talk about.
And I guess it's quite funny.
Sorry to segue ever so slightly, but, you know,
I get asked a lot to come to events
and talk about diversity and inclusion, but I'm always
(10:29):
very vocal about the fact that that's not.
It's actually not my area of expertise.
You know, I want to talk about representation, but I.
Representation, but I also want to talk
about the joy in being more inclusive.
Sometimes it feels.
Sometimes it feels really heavy and.
(10:51):
Yeah, the approach.
The approach isn't always kind of light.
Not that it's not light, but I just think that
sometimes it just needs to be seen as a really
good thing, a really positive thing all the time.
Yeah, I think there needs to
be some of that consistency there.
And I think consistency is probably important, more
(11:13):
important now than ever, because all organisations at
the moment are having a really tough time.
You know, some of even the really
big organisations are cut in budgets.
They're having to let people go, they're having to
change the way their organisations work to survive this.
This quite hard time financially
for a lot of organisations.
(11:33):
And I think, yeah, that's a really important
message because that afterthought feeling around DeI and
that concept of actually it's not that important.
Well, actually it is that inclusion,
that consistency is how you get.
If you forget about the human factor, if
you forget about the social factors and the
government factors and all of the things that
(11:55):
mean that in businesses we're having to deal
with all of these external, social, systematic inequities,
then you've got that concept of we will
be a much more sustainable and progressive organisation.
We'll be able to outlast our competitors if
we just focus on creating a sense of
(12:15):
inclusion and belonging for everybody in the organisation.
Not just everybody that looks like the exec
or everybody that has kind of worked in
the organisation traditionally and those sorts of things,
but also, of course, that intersectional piece.
And this is something we talk about a lot.
I've probably mentioned it every single podcast, because it's
that idea that I need to belong in all
(12:35):
of the aspects of my identity, not just the
one that is the most comfortable for people.
And often we find gender is the first step
in for a lot of organisations when they're looking
at their DEI strategy, because for them it's a
safe, comfortable thing to talk about, talk about.
Whereas if you try and introduce race
and disability and socioeconomics and, you know,
(12:57):
things like that, it becomes really uncomfortable
because people just don't know as much
and they're less comfortable talking about it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I guess like that.
That's another thing that I kind of talk about a lot
when I'm asked to speak on the subject at events.
Like, again, it's like I don't
know everything by any stretch.
(13:20):
It's very much a learning curve and there isn't
a one size fits all solution or strategy.
I think people get worried about asking questions.
I think if you can show some vulnerability in
your lack of knowledge when you're asking questions and
you want to know more, then that's helpful.
If you want to say, okay, I don't quite know
(13:42):
the best ways to, you know, address the disabled community.
Like just kind of maybe open conversations in and around
that, but with a lot of the fear of not
knowing what to say and fear of getting things wrong.
I've seen lots of stagnation in diversity and
(14:04):
inclusion initiatives and progression, which is a shame.
I don't know if that's
something that you have observed.
Yeah, definitely.
And it's interesting because we've just written a piece of
work for a client around taking the fear out of
discussing DEi, and we've got a whole big programme with
one of our longer term clients that we work with,
(14:25):
which is the whole programme is based around removing that
fear and creating that vulnerability in those spaces to be
able to get it wrong.
And you're so spot on.
I get exactly the same thing.
So I often get asked to do talks or
sessions or whatever on neurodiversity and things like that.
And I said, well, listen, I can definitely
reference neurodiversity and I can point you in
(14:45):
the right position for signposting and materials, but
I'm not an expert in it.
I mean, there's never going to be one
expert in it because it's so broad.
But if you want to bring a speaker in that
can definitely talk about it from a personal perspective, you're
going to need to speak to someone that has a
form of neurodiversity and often then I'll kind of pass
(15:05):
that work on to someone else.
And I think that's the same
as what you're saying with your.
When people are asking you about Dei, you can be really
honest and vulnerable and open about what you do and don't
know, but there's going to be some areas where actually a
part of our job and the social value and I guess
that responsibility we have for this work is that then we
(15:26):
pass that work on to the right person.
I think you're in a really wonderful position because of
all of the amazing speakers you've got on your books.
You've always got someone you can pass something
very specific on and you know that you're
then creating opportunities that those people might not
have actually seen just because of your network.
Absolutely, definitely. Yeah, that's.
(15:47):
That's a big part of what we do and why we do it. It's.
It's levelling, levelling out the playing field, but
also just kind of making that field bigger.
Because it's never about taking anyone else's pie.
Right.
It's just about creating more slices of the pie. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, we could talk
about that until the cows come.
(16:08):
It's definitely a conversation we've been having
with a lot of people more recently.
And I was talking to somebody the other
day and they do some really fantastic work
around social value, measuring for organisations to understanding
how different projects and programmes actually make an
impact in the community.
So they were talking about the cycles
that happen and it's so, so true.
(16:29):
You know, we go through these cycles.
Obviously the Black Lives Matter movement has been there for
a really long time, but of course it came to
a lot of public awareness when George Floyd was murdered
and all of a sudden everybody was in, like you
say, this very introspective, reflective mode.
And of course me too helped people
to understand a little bit more.
And there's always going to be
these cycles of things that happen.
(16:50):
And I think that's where your earlier comment of, you
have to be consistent with this stuff because if you're
as an organisation, just kind of putting, and I'm going
to use air quotes here, diverse speakers into your events
or you are asking, and we've had this before where
we have been asked for a diverse facilitator and I'm
(17:11):
like, what does that mean?
Like, diverse doesn't mean anything.
Diversity means something.
But, yeah, it's really hard for
me to know what you mean.
But ultimately I know what they're saying.
They're saying they want a black or brown person
to deliver because in their eyes, that's more credible
when we're talking about these sorts of things.
And I've got lots of different types of
facilitators on my books that are from so
(17:33):
many different backgrounds, which is exactly why I
think our clients like working with us.
But it's that idea that don't just
go with what's happening in that moment.
You have to be consistent with your inclusion because that
is what employees feel, that is what your customers feel,
and that's the authentic piece that a lot of organisations,
I don't think they get it quite right with a
(17:53):
lot of their pr and a lot of their events,
because you can see they're doing it as a token
rather than something much more substantial.
Yeah, I mean, we talk a lot to clients
about their kind of longer term vision and strategy
as opposed to just the one event.
It's like, how can you actually meaningfully weave inclusion
(18:18):
and representation across your whole event and not just,
you know, not just the diversity piece, but also,
you know, across every single panel and discussion that
you have at your event, making sure that each
one of them has a good amount of representation
in all of it.
(18:38):
But, yeah, it's tricky.
We get a lot of pushback or.
Yeah, or we just.
Or we just get clients who aren't really
necessarily doing it for the right reasons.
And how do you handle that?
Because we've definitely had some situations where we've
(18:59):
been approached by organisations and really quickly, you
can tell whether or not they're doing this
because it's International Women's Month or it's Pride
Month or Black History Month, whatever it is.
And for me, I'm in a position where
I can say, do you know what?
We're probably nothing the right organisation for you.
But then part of me thinks, but also, could
(19:20):
we go into that organisation and make a difference?
So it's a bit of a catch 22.
I don't know how you find that.
Yeah, it's funny, I feel exactly the same way.
And I know, especially when I started spectrum, that
was a real concern of mine, you know, was
like, what if people don't get it?
What if, you know, some clients that I'd worked with
(19:42):
before and that I'd formed good relationships with, you know,
what if they didn't come with me because they just
saw me as a kind of diversity organisation?
But as you say, I've been able to differentiate,
like, who are my clients and who isn't.
I know sometimes there is just that kind of
(20:05):
initial lack of understanding how to communicate properly what
you want and what your goals are and why.
And I think as long as there's the
willingness to grow and to actually take on
that information, we can work together. If not.
(20:25):
If that's really not your intention at all and
it's just about optics, then, yeah, then no.
I've had no problem saying,
actually, you're not my client.
And often what makes it very obvious for me are
clients who just pop out of the woodwork just for
(20:46):
the kind of awareness days, but want a speaker for
free or no budget, when for other events throughout the
year, you know, they have money for those speakers. So.
Yeah, which is wild when you think about it.
Talking of things that are a bit wild,
I'm interested to hear if you've had any
really wild requests from organisations, maybe something that's
(21:11):
strange or funny or even.
Maybe even inappropriate, you might not
necessarily want to name the organisation.
I'm just interested to hear if there's
anything quite different that you've been asked
from one of your speakers to do. I'll be honest.
No, not really.
Not too outrageous.
I mean, the things that always crack me up the most
is the kind of the difference between the champagne taste and
(21:34):
the beer money, you know, so I'll get somebody to be
like, oh, yeah, can you get me barack Obama?
It's like, well, I can.
Do you have the money?
And they're like, well, you know, I've got like,
you know, five quid that I found in the
back of my sofa and a bag of chips.
Do you think you'll do it for that? And it's just like.
But with, you know, with a straight
(21:55):
face and it's like, no, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna guess that's a no.
Like, well, why don't you ask?
It's like, I'm not going to do that now.
So I get a lot of that.
Oh, dear, that's hilarious.
I wonder.
I wonder who they got for five pounds and a bunch of.
(22:16):
I don't know.
I don't know that I would like to know who
that speaker is, but, yeah, good luck to them. Yeah.
I've definitely been asked to get people, people
for, say, pride month and things like that.
At a massively reduced fee.
And I'm like, well, actually, I charge more for
pride month for my facilitators because not only are
(22:37):
they hotly in demand during that month, it's a
lot on them to have to retalk about all
of the things that they've been through.
So you're going to actually probably pay more?
Yes, definitely.
100%.
So I'm interested to hear.
So you talked a little bit about the
resistance that you might find from different organisations.
(22:58):
I imagine when people come to you, they come
to you because of the title of your business,
because of what you represent on social media and
what they see within your website and stuff.
But do you ever get people that come to you
and they want a speaker, but they don't want to
push too far in terms of representation, so they want
(23:19):
it to be quite pg and a little bit beige.
They don't want it to be too controversial.
And I'm using quotes again for that word.
Yeah, I mean, I would say what tends to
happen, not tends to, but what can happen?
And I guess I kind of.
(23:39):
I'm okay with it because they are regular clients
of mine and I know, again, I know that
they kind of have, have a greater ethos of
wanting to be more inclusive, but there'll be times
where they'll say, we definitely, like, we really want
some great representation on this event.
And so I'll give them a load of options and
(24:00):
then they'll shortlist about three or four people and then
they'll go for, you know, the white man.
Because, and I say this like it doesn't happen often
with one client, if you know what I mean.
But it happens between all of my clients.
There will be a time at which that happens.
(24:22):
And so I have, I think about, okay,
what do I do in this situation?
But also, you know, there's a part of me that, as
an agency that talks about representation, I'm not going to say,
well, I don't represent this type of person and I'm not
going to find work for that type of person.
I'll always stay true to, this is what
(24:44):
we're trying to achieve and we want to
bring about greater opportunities for everybody.
And I think so long as I know that
from my client, within their lifespan and their life
cycle, that they stay true to that.
And then there will be occasions where
they will ask for something else.
And that's okay. Yeah.
And I think that is important as well, isn't
(25:05):
it, to make sure, like you say, that they've
got a wider piece of work going around this.
So you can see this on a kind of bird's eye view
because you've been working with them for such a long time.
And actually, I think representation does sometimes include
those more majority groups, as long as, of
course, it's surrounding lots of different types of
people on there as well.
Absolutely.
(25:26):
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on anything
you predict coming up in the speaking industry.
So have you got any ideas of any trends that
are coming up within the diversity and inclusion space?
Have you got any thoughts on, you know, how
your agency might adapt to that as things change?
I know, obviously, budgets and elections and things like that
(25:48):
make big, big differences to the work that we do,
but I'm interested to hear if there's anything else that
you foresee coming up or you've heard that's coming up
or you've just spotted a trend.
Yeah, it's really interesting.
I think I've had lots of discussions with
some of my regular clients and corporates this
(26:08):
year to find out exactly that.
What's high up on your agenda?
What are going to be the key things
that you're wanting to talk about and what
are the biggest challenges in your business?
And Dei is very much still
up there across all industries.
And what I can see, which I think
is really good, is kind of more like
(26:33):
a deeper dive into the intersections and characteristics.
In more. I would.
Yeah, in more detail, I guess,
like kind of more granular.
So that is like looking at black women, for
example, and their challenges and experiences as opposed to
just black people and, you know, same with disabilities.
(26:58):
You know, again, you know, we kind of
have people who are disabled and we have,
you know, neurodivergence and they're both. And they're.
They're both kind of separately clumped into one.
So it's a.
Yeah, it's taking more of a look
into, actually, what does that look like
within the spectrum of neurodivergency?
What are the kind of characteristics and
(27:20):
challenges and contributions of each one?
Similarly, with disability and accessibility beyond people who
are in a wheelchair, and actually within that,
looking more at people with chronic illnesses and
(27:42):
making that less of a taboo for people
to talk about in the workplace.
So I definitely think anything to do with
kind of people and culture is still an
enigma that companies want to tap into.
And then, of course, you've got
(28:02):
AI and how that affects everything.
How it affects everything.
What are the ethics in and around that and
how we can kind of best utilise that while
still making sure that we have enough jobs for
everyone, making sure that it's human centred, but it's
(28:26):
so broad because that covers every single industry.
So, yeah, it's really interesting.
I mean, this sounds like.
And it's certainly the same sense we're
getting from our clients as well.
It sounds like it's so closely connected to representation
and under representation and of course, over representation, because
(28:49):
we're talking about things that you and I find
really familiar because we have experienced some things, but
also we've spent our lifetime learning about these things
and we continue to learn about them.
And people are now just starting to realise
that, you know, diversity and inclusion in any
form, whether it's training, whether it's speaking events,
whether it's whatever is not unconscious bias.
(29:12):
You know, there's an element, of course, to understand
how our mind is made up about things, because
that naturally is going to then connect representation.
That's why our tvs and our social media and lots
of organisations are working much harder to increase representation, because
they know when you can see yourself in different settings,
(29:32):
that actually it's much more likely to represent who you
are in your community, rather than this kind of historical
idea of what it's like to be a woman, to
be a black person, and then to be a black
woman, to be a gay black woman, etc, etcetera.
I do like that organisations are.
I guess I do know what? I don't care.
(29:53):
I don't mind if people call me woke. Actually.
I find it a compliment.
I like that these organisations are waking up to this.
And it's not just this.
Well, if we sort out the gender pay gap, or even
if we, you know, as a relatively progressive, which just seems
wild in my head, that this is the sentence I'm about
to say, have a racial pay gap identity there.
(30:13):
So they're great, they're brilliant.
But that, to me, is a
real benchmark, that's a real baseline.
It's the same aspect of protected characteristics.
Those are the basic aspects of human rights.
We shouldn't be aiming for that, we should be aiming
to get as far above that as we possibly can.
And I think organisations are really
starting to understand that now.
(30:34):
But some of them are a bit scared
to talk about these things, a, because they're
terrified of getting cancelled, terrified of getting something
wrong, worried they're going to make it worse.
All of the reasons why they haven't had these
conversations in the first place, some of them aren't
really valid reasons in my mind, just because actually,
you can treat your employees like adults, you can
(30:55):
create these safe spaces to have these conversations.
But I think also you've got that idea that
actually politics play such a big part and especially
at the moment in the UK and the US.
And of course, the US massively influences what we do
in the UK, regardless of whether people that are not.
So I think that there's an aspect there that is playing
(31:16):
out where you can see the two main sides in UK
politics and also us politics, which are actually using Dei as
a bit of a way to win some of those votes
that they didn't normally get and actually divide people even more.
So I can understand why organisations are feeling
a little bit apprehensive to push forward with
(31:38):
a lot of their DEi work.
But I love that you're finding, and I'm definitely finding
with some organisations we're working with then actually the ones
that are progressing and the ones that are pushing forward
with their work, a, they're smart enough to know that
you've got to be consistent in this stuff because it
will cycle back round where it will be a hot
topic again in a few months and lots of these
(31:59):
other organisations are going to be left behind and b,
they can see the benefit of doing this.
So they tend to be a little bit more progressive.
And I open, I think, to talking about things
like intersectionality and really starting to get to the
root of where this came from and how we
can utilise that to change the future.
Definitely, yeah.
They understand the need to
(32:20):
future proof their businesses.
And, you know, I think there are a lot
of people who kind of have protected characteristics, who
are leaving their industries and starting their own business
and, you know, a lot of kind of industry
leaders that I've spoken to recognise that and they
know that it's crucial that they create better opportunities
(32:45):
and environments for people, not just to bring them
in, but to sustain them.
And I think, you know, especially Gen Z are
super, super wise to this and they are the.
They're kind of creating their own opportunities and they're
asking for what they want outright and it's not
enough to be paid a great salary.
(33:08):
Like, the culture and the genuine values
are really, really important and you can't
pretend there's nowhere to hide.
People see right through that stuff and Gen Z
are on the mark and Jen Alfa are going
to be even, even slicker with that.
Their access to information is so much more than
(33:30):
us millennials and baby boomers and things like that.
The other thing I think that organisations
are realising as well is that the
retirement age is getting longer and longer.
People are working for much longer
because they have no choice.
Cost of living crisis, so many different
things that they're going to have so
many different generations working together.
We've already got five generations working together
now it could end up being six. It's just.
(33:52):
It's quite wild to think about.
But that in itself means that longevity of service
is actually really important and it's something that definitely
Gen Z have broken because they're like, actually, I
don't want to work in a forever job.
That's kind of a boomer thing, a millennial thing.
Slowly the millennials kind of stepped away from it.
(34:13):
But as a general rule, I'm probably one of a
handful of my friends outside of my business, friends that
doesn't have a permanent job and hasn't been in that
same organisation for 10, 15, 20 years.
So it's very real for
organisations, that longevity piece.
Okay, so I'm really interested, just as we finish
(34:35):
off, I'm really interested to hear if you've got
any tips or any suggestions, something that is going
to help organisations listen to this, just to really
start to think about how do they represent.
Sorry, how do they increase their
representation of historically marginalised voices.
Yeah, I think just kind of going back to
(34:59):
some of the things that we've talked about in
this conversation, it's firstly, not being afraid to do
so and prioritising it, understanding that representation is a
priority, you know, from a.
From a kind of human case, but also
(35:19):
as a business and to kind of sustain
your business and credibility, it's super, super important.
But, yeah, I mean, there are businesses
like ours and there are, you know,
there are, there are networks, we have.
We have so much information now, it's almost.
(35:41):
And it's almost kind of not okay.
It's not okay anymore to just sort of say, oh,
I couldn't find anyone or I don't know anyone or
my industry is typically, you know, not, not that.
Not that way balanced.
Yeah. Like work.
Work with, work with suppliers, work with people
(36:02):
who, you know, who are already doing what
you want to do, you know, increase your.
Build your own network and, you know, if you
kind of got that this far already as an
organisation, chances are you're pretty resourceful anyway, so, you
know, if you just prioritise it, then you can,
(36:24):
you can make it happen. Yeah.
And actually you.
When you first start on this journey, if
you are a smaller organisation, you don't have
to spend lots of money to do this.
You know, you've probably got people in your
organisation that can help you with this.
So it's about creating those safe
spaces for them to do that.
And then when you do get to a position where
you're like, actually we want to bring some external people
(36:47):
in that are experts in whatever subjects they're experts in,
but actually truly representing the communities that we either serve
as a kind of organisation that sells a product or
maybe we're even in the third sector and those sorts
of things as well.
And that's when we bring in people like Lauralee,
obviously, and Spectrum Speakers and of course us.
(37:07):
Hello.
If you want some learning.
So yeah, it doesn't always have to cost an arm
and a leg and I think it's a layered approach. Right.
You start with anything, something small, just start
somewhere and then slowly build that up and
I think it becomes much more strategic then.
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's a muscle, isn't it?
In the same way that you kind of learn to
(37:29):
do a specific aspect of your job and you get
better and better at it the more you do it.
It's exactly the same with Dei and representation,
you know, it starts with awareness and then
you follow through by doing it, by taking
action and yeah, that action becomes inspired and
(37:51):
it just gets easier and more natural. Amazing.
Thank you so much for spending this time with me.
I wish we had 3 hours more to talk.
We can continue after this, but maybe.
Maybe no one else ought to listen to us for another.
Yeah, good point, good point.
Maybe this is just enough for them.
But listen, that was wonderful.
(38:12):
I loved hearing your insights on that and I can't
wait for us to connect again on another project.
I think it'll be really wonderful. Me too.
Thank you for having me. Thanks Lauralee.
Speak to you soon. Cheers. Bye.
(38:34):
What a fantastic conversation there with Lauralee.
I absolutely loved our conversations.
There's something really special when we get to hear
about somebody who's worked in an industry all of
their lives and their careers, and actually they're able
to then bring a really fantastic and intuitive perspective
to that industry by setting up their own organisation.
(38:56):
I particularly liked when Lauralee explained why
she has an intrinsic and kind of intentional
separation of representation and diversity and really about
that connection, of why she decided to set
the organisation up in the first place.
But I really love the way she was
talking about normalising representation, really thinking about that
(39:18):
vulnerability and really thinking about that integrity and
that consistency of representation and that importance when
it comes to true inclusion and belonging, not
just in organisations of course, but throughout different
parts of the human experience too.
We hope you enjoyed that.
We'll see you on the next one.
Hello and welcome to another episode of
a conversation with a Zing learning podcast.
Today we have the absolute joy of being
joined by Lauralee Whyte, who is the
founder and director of Spectrum Speakers, a fantastic
agency that helps to increase representation across lots
(00:33):
and lots of different events throughout the world.
Now, we've had some really, really good
conversations with Lauralee in the past.
We've even collaborated with her on
some fantastic projects as well.
And she's just got some really insightful things
to say today, talking a little bit around
lots of different parts of representation and why
it's so important and how we can contribute
(00:55):
to an even better system for greater equity.
We hope you enjoy it.
So grab a cuppa, kick back and take a listen.
Hello and welcome to another
(01:15):
episode of a conversation with.
This time we're very excited because we get to
spend to the fantastic Lauralee from Spectrum speakers.
Now, I'm not going to speak for Lauralee.
I'm going to get Lauralee to explain who
they are and a little bit about their experience.
Hi, Zoe.
Thank you for having me.
As Zoe said, my name is Lauralee.
(01:35):
My pronouns are she, her, and I am
the founder of Spectrum speakers and entertainers.
We are an agency dedicated to representation
within the speaking and entertainment industry.
I guess a little bit about my background is I've
worked in the events industry forever, pretty much like my
(01:59):
entire life in some way, shape or form.
There's kind of been events, but
in connection with people specifically.
That's a kind of top line whistle stop tour.
No, that's brilliant.
I actually didn't know you were in this industry
forever for your whole life, so that's going to
be really interesting when we talk about what you've
seen in the past and how that's connecting to
(02:21):
the work that you do now.
But of course, I know spectrum speakers
because we've collaborated on a project before.
We're definitely going to collaborate in the future.
But I'm really interested to hear a little bit about
why you set the organisation up and a bit about
your mission for the fantastic work that you do.
Yeah, absolutely.
I set spectrum up.
(02:42):
As I said, I've worked in the events industry forever.
I've worked with speakers as a speaker agent,
I would say, for the past six or
seven years, and there was just a massive
lack of diversity, firstly, and especially representation.
(03:03):
And I use the two
terms very intentionally and separately.
And it's funny because I feel like, not that I
wasn't that aware of it, but for a long time
I realised that I wasn't connected with what with what
I was doing, like, I was kind of like. I was just.
(03:23):
I just felt like I was going through
the motions and I kept thinking, what? What is it?
Is it that I don't like my job anymore?
I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
And it wasn't until sort of COVID came about
and, you know, obviously everything that happened with Black
Lives Matter and I think everyone became so introspective,
(03:47):
myself especially, and I realised I was really complicit
in just sort of like, perpetuating the industry of
just kind of white people, especially, like white males,
being the authority on everything and on anything.
(04:09):
And it kind of made sense.
It was like, well, I'm never being
asked to provide speakers or entertainers to
talk about anything but diversity.
And even that at that time was a kind of
afterthought and also something, you know, something that people were
just starting to talk about and think about.
(04:30):
But it wasn't, it wasn't really so much a value.
And, yeah, I just.
I actually had no ambitions to run my own business when
I kind of realised and I was like, okay, this is
the problem and this is how I can contribute to a
better system in a way that I know how.
(04:53):
I was like, I'm going to work for an agency
that's like super representative and really shares all of the
values that I have and it didn't exist.
So.
So, yeah, it came about because it was
a problem that I couldn't unsee and I
(05:14):
went into my network and I started building
my connections of speakers who not just talk
about diversity, but actually everything but diversity and,
you know, people from every single protected characteristic
across every single industry and subject and topic.
(05:35):
So, yeah, that was, that was really
how spectrum came about and why.
Why it needed to exist. What you.
I mean, ten things you just said that really resonate
with me because I was the same as you.
So I actually quit my job in February 2020,
which seemed like a really good idea at the
(05:55):
time because I'd got to the same point.
I felt like I was being complicit in
just perpetuating the same learning and the same
types of people that were accessing those opportunities.
And I didn't feel like inside an organisation I was
able to make the impact that I needed to make.
(06:16):
So actually I started to think about how
can I contribute to a better system?
How can I make sure I'm not part of
the problem and instead I'm part of the solution.
So, yeah, same as you, I actually was
applying for jobs when I was having coaching.
And through the coaching, I kind of
thought, actually, what am I doing?
There's so many rubbish Dei learning companies out there
(06:37):
that are just spilling off the same old rubbish.
Like you said, it's a bit of an afterthought.
You know, they do leadership development
programmes, but also Dei, or customer
service programmes, but also Dei.
And I was just like this.
It's not what I want to do, actually, the
whole sole focus on what we're trying to do
is to create better representation in general.
So that really resonates with me, definitely. That's.
(06:59):
Yeah, that's so. That's so funny.
It's almost identical to my
journey and thought process.
Yeah, definitely very different industries and obviously
we've had very different experiences, but we
clearly got to the same place.
Not necessarily at the same time, but
similar ish times in our lives.
Yeah, I'm really interested in something that you
(07:19):
just said, actually, which was that you keep
the words representation and diversity intentionally separate.
What did you mean by that?
I guess I mean that I get so many requests
for diversity speakers and it's a concept that I really
(07:40):
struggle to get across to clients because they think that
the only way to bring about diversity to their event
is to bring someone from a protected characteristic to talk
about diversity, namely to talk about their challenges, mainly to
kind of trauma mind sometimes.
(08:01):
And actually, that quite often, that
person isn't a diversity expert.
You know, they're somebody who's worked in
an industry for a really long time,
but they faced challenges because of.
Because of who they are and where they come from.
And it feels a bit like, well, let's bring on this
(08:23):
poor person to tell us about how tough their life is.
Rather than actually.
To me, representation is about actually
bringing that person into the event.
To say, I do this, I talk
about business, I'm a really incredible business
person, I'm an incredible innovator, I'm an
(08:44):
incredible creator, I'm a great technology mavende.
I just so happen to be a woman and I just so
happen to be black and I just so happen to be disabled.
You know, that's.
That, to me, is representation.
Yeah, I totally agree.
I'm nodding furiously.
Not that anyone can see that, but there's a
(09:06):
couple of things that you just said there.
I think there's something
about normalising representation.
So rather than, like you say, rather than it
being a trauma mining or whatever else we're actually
saying, not everybody's experience is horrific, but there are
some aspects to that experience that are important to
hear from a different perspective as well.
And I think that's just as important
(09:28):
as talking about the reality of under
representation for lots of different marginalised groups.
I've got a really good friend of mine
who is from the LGBTQ community, very proud
and out there and super flamboyant and amazing
individual and very successful in their HR career.
(09:48):
And I remember asking him if he wanted to
come on to the podcast and he said, I
can, but I don't really have any horror stories.
Like, life's actually been pretty great, apart
from some of the more obvious social
and kind of systematic things.
And I said, but that's great.
Why does it always have to be doom and gloom?
It's really important to look at both
sides of it and I think that's
(10:09):
something the spectrum do really, really well.
Thank you. Yeah, that's.
That's kind of one of the things that we talk about.
And I guess it's quite funny.
Sorry to segue ever so slightly, but, you know,
I get asked a lot to come to events
and talk about diversity and inclusion, but I'm always
(10:29):
very vocal about the fact that that's not.
It's actually not my area of expertise.
You know, I want to talk about representation, but I.
Representation, but I also want to talk
about the joy in being more inclusive.
Sometimes it feels.
Sometimes it feels really heavy and.
(10:51):
Yeah, the approach.
The approach isn't always kind of light.
Not that it's not light, but I just think that
sometimes it just needs to be seen as a really
good thing, a really positive thing all the time.
Yeah, I think there needs to
be some of that consistency there.
And I think consistency is probably important, more
(11:13):
important now than ever, because all organisations at
the moment are having a really tough time.
You know, some of even the really
big organisations are cut in budgets.
They're having to let people go, they're having to
change the way their organisations work to survive this.
This quite hard time financially
for a lot of organisations.
(11:33):
And I think, yeah, that's a really important
message because that afterthought feeling around DeI and
that concept of actually it's not that important.
Well, actually it is that inclusion,
that consistency is how you get.
If you forget about the human factor, if
you forget about the social factors and the
government factors and all of the things that
(11:55):
mean that in businesses we're having to deal
with all of these external, social, systematic inequities,
then you've got that concept of we will
be a much more sustainable and progressive organisation.
We'll be able to outlast our competitors if
we just focus on creating a sense of
(12:15):
inclusion and belonging for everybody in the organisation.
Not just everybody that looks like the exec
or everybody that has kind of worked in
the organisation traditionally and those sorts of things,
but also, of course, that intersectional piece.
And this is something we talk about a lot.
I've probably mentioned it every single podcast, because it's
that idea that I need to belong in all
(12:35):
of the aspects of my identity, not just the
one that is the most comfortable for people.
And often we find gender is the first step
in for a lot of organisations when they're looking
at their DEI strategy, because for them it's a
safe, comfortable thing to talk about, talk about.
Whereas if you try and introduce race
and disability and socioeconomics and, you know,
(12:57):
things like that, it becomes really uncomfortable
because people just don't know as much
and they're less comfortable talking about it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I guess like that.
That's another thing that I kind of talk about a lot
when I'm asked to speak on the subject at events.
Like, again, it's like I don't
know everything by any stretch.
(13:20):
It's very much a learning curve and there isn't
a one size fits all solution or strategy.
I think people get worried about asking questions.
I think if you can show some vulnerability in
your lack of knowledge when you're asking questions and
you want to know more, then that's helpful.
If you want to say, okay, I don't quite know
(13:42):
the best ways to, you know, address the disabled community.
Like just kind of maybe open conversations in and around
that, but with a lot of the fear of not
knowing what to say and fear of getting things wrong.
I've seen lots of stagnation in diversity and
(14:04):
inclusion initiatives and progression, which is a shame.
I don't know if that's
something that you have observed.
Yeah, definitely.
And it's interesting because we've just written a piece of
work for a client around taking the fear out of
discussing DEi, and we've got a whole big programme with
one of our longer term clients that we work with,
(14:25):
which is the whole programme is based around removing that
fear and creating that vulnerability in those spaces to be
able to get it wrong.
And you're so spot on.
I get exactly the same thing.
So I often get asked to do talks or
sessions or whatever on neurodiversity and things like that.
And I said, well, listen, I can definitely
reference neurodiversity and I can point you in
(14:45):
the right position for signposting and materials, but
I'm not an expert in it.
I mean, there's never going to be one
expert in it because it's so broad.
But if you want to bring a speaker in that
can definitely talk about it from a personal perspective, you're
going to need to speak to someone that has a
form of neurodiversity and often then I'll kind of pass
(15:05):
that work on to someone else.
And I think that's the same
as what you're saying with your.
When people are asking you about Dei, you can be really
honest and vulnerable and open about what you do and don't
know, but there's going to be some areas where actually a
part of our job and the social value and I guess
that responsibility we have for this work is that then we
(15:26):
pass that work on to the right person.
I think you're in a really wonderful position because of
all of the amazing speakers you've got on your books.
You've always got someone you can pass something
very specific on and you know that you're
then creating opportunities that those people might not
have actually seen just because of your network.
Absolutely, definitely. Yeah, that's.
(15:47):
That's a big part of what we do and why we do it. It's.
It's levelling, levelling out the playing field, but
also just kind of making that field bigger.
Because it's never about taking anyone else's pie.
Right.
It's just about creating more slices of the pie. Yeah.
I mean, yeah, we could talk
about that until the cows come.
(16:08):
It's definitely a conversation we've been having
with a lot of people more recently.
And I was talking to somebody the other
day and they do some really fantastic work
around social value, measuring for organisations to understanding
how different projects and programmes actually make an
impact in the community.
So they were talking about the cycles
that happen and it's so, so true.
(16:29):
You know, we go through these cycles.
Obviously the Black Lives Matter movement has been there for
a really long time, but of course it came to
a lot of public awareness when George Floyd was murdered
and all of a sudden everybody was in, like you
say, this very introspective, reflective mode.
And of course me too helped people
to understand a little bit more.
And there's always going to be
these cycles of things that happen.
(16:50):
And I think that's where your earlier comment of, you
have to be consistent with this stuff because if you're
as an organisation, just kind of putting, and I'm going
to use air quotes here, diverse speakers into your events
or you are asking, and we've had this before where
we have been asked for a diverse facilitator and I'm
(17:11):
like, what does that mean?
Like, diverse doesn't mean anything.
Diversity means something.
But, yeah, it's really hard for
me to know what you mean.
But ultimately I know what they're saying.
They're saying they want a black or brown person
to deliver because in their eyes, that's more credible
when we're talking about these sorts of things.
And I've got lots of different types of
facilitators on my books that are from so
(17:33):
many different backgrounds, which is exactly why I
think our clients like working with us.
But it's that idea that don't just
go with what's happening in that moment.
You have to be consistent with your inclusion because that
is what employees feel, that is what your customers feel,
and that's the authentic piece that a lot of organisations,
I don't think they get it quite right with a
(17:53):
lot of their pr and a lot of their events,
because you can see they're doing it as a token
rather than something much more substantial.
Yeah, I mean, we talk a lot to clients
about their kind of longer term vision and strategy
as opposed to just the one event.
It's like, how can you actually meaningfully weave inclusion
(18:18):
and representation across your whole event and not just,
you know, not just the diversity piece, but also,
you know, across every single panel and discussion that
you have at your event, making sure that each
one of them has a good amount of representation
in all of it.
(18:38):
But, yeah, it's tricky.
We get a lot of pushback or.
Yeah, or we just.
Or we just get clients who aren't really
necessarily doing it for the right reasons.
And how do you handle that?
Because we've definitely had some situations where we've
(18:59):
been approached by organisations and really quickly, you
can tell whether or not they're doing this
because it's International Women's Month or it's Pride
Month or Black History Month, whatever it is.
And for me, I'm in a position where
I can say, do you know what?
We're probably nothing the right organisation for you.
But then part of me thinks, but also, could
(19:20):
we go into that organisation and make a difference?
So it's a bit of a catch 22.
I don't know how you find that.
Yeah, it's funny, I feel exactly the same way.
And I know, especially when I started spectrum, that
was a real concern of mine, you know, was
like, what if people don't get it?
What if, you know, some clients that I'd worked with
(19:42):
before and that I'd formed good relationships with, you know,
what if they didn't come with me because they just
saw me as a kind of diversity organisation?
But as you say, I've been able to differentiate,
like, who are my clients and who isn't.
I know sometimes there is just that kind of
(20:05):
initial lack of understanding how to communicate properly what
you want and what your goals are and why.
And I think as long as there's the
willingness to grow and to actually take on
that information, we can work together. If not.
(20:25):
If that's really not your intention at all and
it's just about optics, then, yeah, then no.
I've had no problem saying,
actually, you're not my client.
And often what makes it very obvious for me are
clients who just pop out of the woodwork just for
(20:46):
the kind of awareness days, but want a speaker for
free or no budget, when for other events throughout the
year, you know, they have money for those speakers. So.
Yeah, which is wild when you think about it.
Talking of things that are a bit wild,
I'm interested to hear if you've had any
really wild requests from organisations, maybe something that's
(21:11):
strange or funny or even.
Maybe even inappropriate, you might not
necessarily want to name the organisation.
I'm just interested to hear if there's
anything quite different that you've been asked
from one of your speakers to do. I'll be honest.
No, not really.
Not too outrageous.
I mean, the things that always crack me up the most
is the kind of the difference between the champagne taste and
(21:34):
the beer money, you know, so I'll get somebody to be
like, oh, yeah, can you get me barack Obama?
It's like, well, I can.
Do you have the money?
And they're like, well, you know, I've got like,
you know, five quid that I found in the
back of my sofa and a bag of chips.
Do you think you'll do it for that? And it's just like.
But with, you know, with a straight
(21:55):
face and it's like, no, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna guess that's a no.
Like, well, why don't you ask?
It's like, I'm not going to do that now.
So I get a lot of that.
Oh, dear, that's hilarious.
I wonder.
I wonder who they got for five pounds and a bunch of.
(22:16):
I don't know.
I don't know that I would like to know who
that speaker is, but, yeah, good luck to them. Yeah.
I've definitely been asked to get people, people
for, say, pride month and things like that.
At a massively reduced fee.
And I'm like, well, actually, I charge more for
pride month for my facilitators because not only are
(22:37):
they hotly in demand during that month, it's a
lot on them to have to retalk about all
of the things that they've been through.
So you're going to actually probably pay more?
Yes, definitely.
100%.
So I'm interested to hear.
So you talked a little bit about the
resistance that you might find from different organisations.
(22:58):
I imagine when people come to you, they come
to you because of the title of your business,
because of what you represent on social media and
what they see within your website and stuff.
But do you ever get people that come to you
and they want a speaker, but they don't want to
push too far in terms of representation, so they want
(23:19):
it to be quite pg and a little bit beige.
They don't want it to be too controversial.
And I'm using quotes again for that word.
Yeah, I mean, I would say what tends to
happen, not tends to, but what can happen?
And I guess I kind of.
(23:39):
I'm okay with it because they are regular clients
of mine and I know, again, I know that
they kind of have, have a greater ethos of
wanting to be more inclusive, but there'll be times
where they'll say, we definitely, like, we really want
some great representation on this event.
And so I'll give them a load of options and
(24:00):
then they'll shortlist about three or four people and then
they'll go for, you know, the white man.
Because, and I say this like it doesn't happen often
with one client, if you know what I mean.
But it happens between all of my clients.
There will be a time at which that happens.
(24:22):
And so I have, I think about, okay,
what do I do in this situation?
But also, you know, there's a part of me that, as
an agency that talks about representation, I'm not going to say,
well, I don't represent this type of person and I'm not
going to find work for that type of person.
I'll always stay true to, this is what
(24:44):
we're trying to achieve and we want to
bring about greater opportunities for everybody.
And I think so long as I know that
from my client, within their lifespan and their life
cycle, that they stay true to that.
And then there will be occasions where
they will ask for something else.
And that's okay. Yeah.
And I think that is important as well, isn't
(25:05):
it, to make sure, like you say, that they've
got a wider piece of work going around this.
So you can see this on a kind of bird's eye view
because you've been working with them for such a long time.
And actually, I think representation does sometimes include
those more majority groups, as long as, of
course, it's surrounding lots of different types of
people on there as well.
Absolutely.
(25:26):
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on anything
you predict coming up in the speaking industry.
So have you got any ideas of any trends that
are coming up within the diversity and inclusion space?
Have you got any thoughts on, you know, how
your agency might adapt to that as things change?
I know, obviously, budgets and elections and things like that
(25:48):
make big, big differences to the work that we do,
but I'm interested to hear if there's anything else that
you foresee coming up or you've heard that's coming up
or you've just spotted a trend.
Yeah, it's really interesting.
I think I've had lots of discussions with
some of my regular clients and corporates this
(26:08):
year to find out exactly that.
What's high up on your agenda?
What are going to be the key things
that you're wanting to talk about and what
are the biggest challenges in your business?
And Dei is very much still
up there across all industries.
And what I can see, which I think
is really good, is kind of more like
(26:33):
a deeper dive into the intersections and characteristics.
In more. I would.
Yeah, in more detail, I guess,
like kind of more granular.
So that is like looking at black women, for
example, and their challenges and experiences as opposed to
just black people and, you know, same with disabilities.
(26:58):
You know, again, you know, we kind of
have people who are disabled and we have,
you know, neurodivergence and they're both. And they're.
They're both kind of separately clumped into one.
So it's a.
Yeah, it's taking more of a look
into, actually, what does that look like
within the spectrum of neurodivergency?
What are the kind of characteristics and
(27:20):
challenges and contributions of each one?
Similarly, with disability and accessibility beyond people who
are in a wheelchair, and actually within that,
looking more at people with chronic illnesses and
(27:42):
making that less of a taboo for people
to talk about in the workplace.
So I definitely think anything to do with
kind of people and culture is still an
enigma that companies want to tap into.
And then, of course, you've got
(28:02):
AI and how that affects everything.
How it affects everything.
What are the ethics in and around that and
how we can kind of best utilise that while
still making sure that we have enough jobs for
everyone, making sure that it's human centred, but it's
(28:26):
so broad because that covers every single industry.
So, yeah, it's really interesting.
I mean, this sounds like.
And it's certainly the same sense we're
getting from our clients as well.
It sounds like it's so closely connected to representation
and under representation and of course, over representation, because
(28:49):
we're talking about things that you and I find
really familiar because we have experienced some things, but
also we've spent our lifetime learning about these things
and we continue to learn about them.
And people are now just starting to realise
that, you know, diversity and inclusion in any
form, whether it's training, whether it's speaking events,
whether it's whatever is not unconscious bias.
(29:12):
You know, there's an element, of course, to understand
how our mind is made up about things, because
that naturally is going to then connect representation.
That's why our tvs and our social media and lots
of organisations are working much harder to increase representation, because
they know when you can see yourself in different settings,
(29:32):
that actually it's much more likely to represent who you
are in your community, rather than this kind of historical
idea of what it's like to be a woman, to
be a black person, and then to be a black
woman, to be a gay black woman, etc, etcetera.
I do like that organisations are.
I guess I do know what? I don't care.
(29:53):
I don't mind if people call me woke. Actually.
I find it a compliment.
I like that these organisations are waking up to this.
And it's not just this.
Well, if we sort out the gender pay gap, or even
if we, you know, as a relatively progressive, which just seems
wild in my head, that this is the sentence I'm about
to say, have a racial pay gap identity there.
(30:13):
So they're great, they're brilliant.
But that, to me, is a
real benchmark, that's a real baseline.
It's the same aspect of protected characteristics.
Those are the basic aspects of human rights.
We shouldn't be aiming for that, we should be aiming
to get as far above that as we possibly can.
And I think organisations are really
starting to understand that now.
(30:34):
But some of them are a bit scared
to talk about these things, a, because they're
terrified of getting cancelled, terrified of getting something
wrong, worried they're going to make it worse.
All of the reasons why they haven't had these
conversations in the first place, some of them aren't
really valid reasons in my mind, just because actually,
you can treat your employees like adults, you can
(30:55):
create these safe spaces to have these conversations.
But I think also you've got that idea that
actually politics play such a big part and especially
at the moment in the UK and the US.
And of course, the US massively influences what we do
in the UK, regardless of whether people that are not.
So I think that there's an aspect there that is playing
(31:16):
out where you can see the two main sides in UK
politics and also us politics, which are actually using Dei as
a bit of a way to win some of those votes
that they didn't normally get and actually divide people even more.
So I can understand why organisations are feeling
a little bit apprehensive to push forward with
(31:38):
a lot of their DEi work.
But I love that you're finding, and I'm definitely finding
with some organisations we're working with then actually the ones
that are progressing and the ones that are pushing forward
with their work, a, they're smart enough to know that
you've got to be consistent in this stuff because it
will cycle back round where it will be a hot
topic again in a few months and lots of these
(31:59):
other organisations are going to be left behind and b,
they can see the benefit of doing this.
So they tend to be a little bit more progressive.
And I open, I think, to talking about things
like intersectionality and really starting to get to the
root of where this came from and how we
can utilise that to change the future.
Definitely, yeah.
They understand the need to
(32:20):
future proof their businesses.
And, you know, I think there are a lot
of people who kind of have protected characteristics, who
are leaving their industries and starting their own business
and, you know, a lot of kind of industry
leaders that I've spoken to recognise that and they
know that it's crucial that they create better opportunities
(32:45):
and environments for people, not just to bring them
in, but to sustain them.
And I think, you know, especially Gen Z are
super, super wise to this and they are the.
They're kind of creating their own opportunities and they're
asking for what they want outright and it's not
enough to be paid a great salary.
(33:08):
Like, the culture and the genuine values
are really, really important and you can't
pretend there's nowhere to hide.
People see right through that stuff and Gen Z
are on the mark and Jen Alfa are going
to be even, even slicker with that.
Their access to information is so much more than
(33:30):
us millennials and baby boomers and things like that.
The other thing I think that organisations
are realising as well is that the
retirement age is getting longer and longer.
People are working for much longer
because they have no choice.
Cost of living crisis, so many different
things that they're going to have so
many different generations working together.
We've already got five generations working together
now it could end up being six. It's just.
(33:52):
It's quite wild to think about.
But that in itself means that longevity of service
is actually really important and it's something that definitely
Gen Z have broken because they're like, actually, I
don't want to work in a forever job.
That's kind of a boomer thing, a millennial thing.
Slowly the millennials kind of stepped away from it.
(34:13):
But as a general rule, I'm probably one of a
handful of my friends outside of my business, friends that
doesn't have a permanent job and hasn't been in that
same organisation for 10, 15, 20 years.
So it's very real for
organisations, that longevity piece.
Okay, so I'm really interested, just as we finish
(34:35):
off, I'm really interested to hear if you've got
any tips or any suggestions, something that is going
to help organisations listen to this, just to really
start to think about how do they represent.
Sorry, how do they increase their
representation of historically marginalised voices.
Yeah, I think just kind of going back to
(34:59):
some of the things that we've talked about in
this conversation, it's firstly, not being afraid to do
so and prioritising it, understanding that representation is a
priority, you know, from a.
From a kind of human case, but also
(35:19):
as a business and to kind of sustain
your business and credibility, it's super, super important.
But, yeah, I mean, there are businesses
like ours and there are, you know,
there are, there are networks, we have.
We have so much information now, it's almost.
(35:41):
And it's almost kind of not okay.
It's not okay anymore to just sort of say, oh,
I couldn't find anyone or I don't know anyone or
my industry is typically, you know, not, not that.
Not that way balanced.
Yeah. Like work.
Work with, work with suppliers, work with people
(36:02):
who, you know, who are already doing what
you want to do, you know, increase your.
Build your own network and, you know, if you
kind of got that this far already as an
organisation, chances are you're pretty resourceful anyway, so, you
know, if you just prioritise it, then you can,
(36:24):
you can make it happen. Yeah.
And actually you.
When you first start on this journey, if
you are a smaller organisation, you don't have
to spend lots of money to do this.
You know, you've probably got people in your
organisation that can help you with this.
So it's about creating those safe
spaces for them to do that.
And then when you do get to a position where
you're like, actually we want to bring some external people
(36:47):
in that are experts in whatever subjects they're experts in,
but actually truly representing the communities that we either serve
as a kind of organisation that sells a product or
maybe we're even in the third sector and those sorts
of things as well.
And that's when we bring in people like Lauralee,
obviously, and Spectrum Speakers and of course us.
(37:07):
Hello.
If you want some learning.
So yeah, it doesn't always have to cost an arm
and a leg and I think it's a layered approach. Right.
You start with anything, something small, just start
somewhere and then slowly build that up and
I think it becomes much more strategic then.
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's a muscle, isn't it?
In the same way that you kind of learn to
(37:29):
do a specific aspect of your job and you get
better and better at it the more you do it.
It's exactly the same with Dei and representation,
you know, it starts with awareness and then
you follow through by doing it, by taking
action and yeah, that action becomes inspired and
(37:51):
it just gets easier and more natural. Amazing.
Thank you so much for spending this time with me.
I wish we had 3 hours more to talk.
We can continue after this, but maybe.
Maybe no one else ought to listen to us for another.
Yeah, good point, good point.
Maybe this is just enough for them.
But listen, that was wonderful.
(38:12):
I loved hearing your insights on that and I can't
wait for us to connect again on another project.
I think it'll be really wonderful. Me too.
Thank you for having me. Thanks Lauralee.
Speak to you soon. Cheers. Bye.
(38:34):
What a fantastic conversation there with Lauralee.
I absolutely loved our conversations.
There's something really special when we get to hear
about somebody who's worked in an industry all of
their lives and their careers, and actually they're able
to then bring a really fantastic and intuitive perspective
to that industry by setting up their own organisation.
(38:56):
I particularly liked when Lauralee explained why
she has an intrinsic and kind of intentional
separation of representation and diversity and really about
that connection, of why she decided to set
the organisation up in the first place.
But I really love the way she was
talking about normalising representation, really thinking about that
(39:18):
vulnerability and really thinking about that integrity and
that consistency of representation and that importance when
it comes to true inclusion and belonging, not
just in organisations of course, but throughout different
parts of the human experience too.
We hope you enjoyed that.
We'll see you on the next one.
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